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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Mo Ryan and Ryan McGee seem to have picked up on that same theme, that "this is beneath this show", and while they're willing to say every show has it's bad episodes, they also spend a lot of time talking about how this season is meandering and pointless.  They Oliver has been unpleasant this season and they're writing Felicity badly.

 

They liked the Corto Maltese episode, likening it to first an episode of Strike Back (Strike Force in the rest of the world) and Burn Notice, two shows I really like.  They both didn't like The Secret Origins episode because they don't like what the season has done with Felicity, who McGee has a crush on and Mo Ryan likes.  (She's said before that Team Arrow is the heart of the show.)

 

I'm happy that McGee said that Felicity being awed by the diamond necklace makes her "shallow" since that's the word I tweeted to MG.

 

Both they and Rober Dougherty pretty much said every criticism we've had of this season.

 

I wonder if the EPs pay attention to reviewers, and if so, who they pay attention to.

Edited by statsgirl
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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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Kymmi

Kymmi

but Oracle has not had any real life portrayals outside of the comics (minus that short lived BoP show which no one really remembers) so for the 99.6% of us on plant earth who don't read comics and only watches TV there really hasn't been any/many mid 20's, super smart, well rounded and loved characters as Felicity on our TV screens.

 

I have the DVDs.  I haven't watched the show since it originally aired (my husband was also a big fan) and we recently broke them out.  Great 90's looks in there LOL.  I liked that show.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

 

I'm happy that McGee said that Felicity being awed by the diamond necklace makes her "shallow" since that's the word I tweeted to MG.

 

 

Why? why does being at awe over a 10 million diamond neckless and a super expensive and beautiful dress makes Felicity Shallow? she is anything but.., and we have been shown that time and time again.

 

FYI, there ARE women out there who are not only smart and successful in their fields but also love fashion and bling (myself included). And as proven by yesterday mall strolling with my friend (who occasionally weirds me out in similar ways to Ray, but he's still my friend and he means well) I love shopping! put me in the mall and I go into full on shopaholic mode, we went into DSW and Nordstrom I was like a kid in a candy store. my friend was amused.

if someone loaned me a couture dress and a 10mil neckless and all they were asking was a few hours of my time for a platonic business dinner.. yea i would say yes too, and i would like to keep the dress.. (just sayin).

If that makes me shallow than.. by all means. I wish we had more independent, smart, sensetive, fashion-loving shallow women on TV.

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HighHopes

HighHopes

(edited)

Why? why does being at awe over a 10 million diamond neckless and a super expensive and beautiful dress makes Felicity Shallow? she is anything but.., and we have been shown that time and time again.

 

FYI, there ARE women out there who are not only smart and successful in their fields but also love fashion and bling (myself included). And as proven by yesterday mall strolling with my friend (who occasionally weirds me out in similar ways to Ray, but he's still my friend and he means well) I love shopping! put me in the mall and I go into full on shopaholic mode, we went into DSW and Nordstrom I was like a kid in a candy store. my friend was amused.

if someone loaned me a couture dress and a 10mil neckless and all they were asking was a few hours of my time for a platonic business dinner.. yea i would say yes too, and i would like to keep the dress.. (just sayin).

If that makes me shallow than.. by all means. I wish we had more independent, smart, sensetive, fashion-loving shallow women on TV.

 

Agreed!

 

It reminds me of Legally Blonde and Elle in the store and how the sales person tried to pull one over on Elle because she assumed Elle was just a shallow, spoiled blonde. Elle while loving fashion wasn't exactly shallow, and neither is Felicity. (If Felicity was shallow she would have trusted Oliver on his abs/ability to do the salmon ladder alone). 

Edited by HighHopes
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Listening to the podcast just now, they're not saying they think she is shallow. More like they're complaining that the writing is trying to make Felicity look shallow, which doesn't fit their view of the character.

Edited by dancingnancy
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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

More like they're complaining that the writing is trying to make Felicity look shallow, which doesn't fit their view of the character.

 

More specifically, they feel Felicity is being written differently primarily to make Ray happen, and they're not down with it.

 

I wonder if the EPs pay attention to reviewers, and if so, who they pay attention to.

 

I have to imagine they pay close attention to Mo and Ryan. Mo did the interview with them at the end of last season, and in May, Mo and Ryan dedicated an entire podcast to raving about the show. Given how much Mo and Ryan love the show and how effusive they can be in their praise, I hope the EPs will take their constructive criticism to heart as well.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Listening to the podcast just now, they're not saying they think she is shallow. More like they're complaining that the writing is trying to make Felicity look shallow, which doesn't fit their view of the character.

 

I didn't listen to the podcast... but i saw nothing wrong with the dress and neckless scenes, we have been given plenty of scenes (pretty much every scene she's in) of ass kicking via her genius brain Felicity since day one. So I see nothing wrong with adding scenes of Felicity being "shallow" and enjoying the finer - expensive- things in life; it just adds another interesting and realistic layer to her, okay realistic to me because I am and I know women like that.

Edited by foreverevolving
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DrSpaceman10

DrSpaceman10

(edited)

 I wonder if the EPs pay attention to reviewers, and if so, who they pay attention to.

 

SA said on the Arrow Aftershow that one of the reviewers they pay attention to is GreenArrow TV (which recently blamed the dislike of Laurel on mostly female fans who won't give the show enough leeway to fix her).

https://twitter.com/TuckeratKSiteTV/status/534844755394703360

 

I have to imagine they pay close attention to Mo and Ryan. Mo did the interview with them at the end of last season, and in May, Mo and Ryan dedicated an entire podcast to raving about the show. Given how much Mo and Ryan love the show and how effusive they can be in their praise, I hope the EPs will take their constructive criticism to heart as well.

 

I think I remember Mo and Ryan saying last season that one thing they never got enough of was Oliver, Diggle and Felicity working as a team (the EPs don't seem to have taken that piece of criticism to heart this season though).

Edited by drspaceman10
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I didn't listen to the podcast... but i saw nothing wrong with the dress and neckless scenes, we have been given plenty of scenes (pretty much every scene she's in) of ass kicking via her genius brain Felicity since day one. So I see nothing wrong with adding scenes of Felicity being "shallow" and enjoying the finer - expensive- things in life; it just adds another interesting and realistic layer to her, okay realistic to me because I am and I know women like that.

I'm pretty fine with how Felicity reacted to the dress and necklace, I'd probably have reacted the same way. But I don't understand Palmer's motives for anything at all so far, and I agree with Mo and Ryan that they're writing Felicity to serve HIS storyline instead of her own. And the dress and necklace played into that. They're not at all about Felicity, they're about Palmer, and whatever it is that the writing is trying to do with him -- be it contrasting him with Oliver, or showcasing his creepitude, or somewhere in between.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

That Twitter exchange made my blood pressure rise. It's not only women who are criticizing Laurel. And just because I'm a woman doesn't mean my criticisms are invalid. This dude can disagree why people don't like Laurel, but I'm not sure that my gender has anything to do with it. He's right in that I'm not willing to give Laurel a chance now that she has this brand new, don't worry, you'll like her now, story line. I gave her a chance for two years, and the Show failed to make me care about her character. 

 

With Felicity and Ray, it's too much tell not show. There are so many comments in the episode thread of how they've been working together for two months and she must trust him now, etc. but we never saw that. The previous episodes interaction was Ray barging into her house inappropriately. How'd they get from that to her singing his praises at dinner?

 

The show is centered around Oliver, I get that. But when you write to plot instead of character, very little is going to make sense. I do hope the EPs are seeing the lack of enthusiasm for this season. It's not just one blogger or one website. It's coming from a lot of viewers and critics. It's not a question of getting another season as I think that's pretty much guaranteed, but how much is getting those syndication rights going to matter if no one wants to watch it?

Edited by calliope1975
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

It's been my experience from Smallville fandom that every single one of the dudes affiliated with K-Site display some level of misogyny, and do some very shady gatekeeping of female fans on comic book properties. It's why I never ever EVER go to any of their sites, because I refuse to give them advertising money from my clicks.

Eta: I get that the implication there is that women are catty and hateful towards lady characters for silly reasons [like 'shipping], which only confirms to me that dudebro's POV on women is pathetic. But let's say it is true that more women hate Laurel. All that points out to me is that the character is failing in gathering empathy from the audience AT THE MOST BASIC LEVEL of sharing a gender. And that takes some really REALLY shitty writing to accomplish.

Edited by dancingnancy
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Tangerine

Tangerine

(edited)

SA said on the Arrow Aftershow that they one of the reviewers they pay attention to is GreenArrow TV (which recently blamed the dislike of Laurel on mostly female fans who won't give the show enough leeway to fix her).

https://twitter.com/TuckeratKSiteTV/status/534844755394703360

 

I cannot roll my eyes hard enough. Do you want to know why I, as a female, am so hard on Laurel? Because I love seeing capable, multi-layered and relatable female characters on my TV and the writers have completely botched up the development of what is supposed to be their female lead. Dismissing very valid criticisms against her just because some of the critics happen to be female is horribly insulting and sexist. His argument seems to be that the female critics are dismissing her current storyline and supposed "growth" as a character, but the whole point is rushing her into a superhero entity is NOT serving her development at all. And I would feel the exact same way if Laurel was male. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling, no matter how much leather you put on it.

Edited by Tangerine
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writersblock51

writersblock51

I've been turned off of GreenArrowTV's twitter account & reviews for sometime now.  There definitely seems to be a pattern of condescension when it comes to female fans voicing their opinions about Laurel. If we don't like her, we're 'catty' or ignorant about her comic book history. So, I stopped following and reading.

 

I've liked Maureen Ryan from when she and Alan Sepinwell were champions of "Chuck" and I'm glad she's carrying on with "Arrow."  She's a fan and wants it to do better, knowing that it can.

 

I follow Ryan McGee on Twitter and he's hysterical. I like his insights into Arrow as well.

 

I don't know who the show follows other than ArrowAfter Show and GreenArrowTV but I hope they're looking beyond just those 2.

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Password

Password

I would rather have had in place of the dress and necklace exchange, moments where Felicity genuinely started to believe in Ray's vision. I absolutely believed Felicity's impassioned speech. And if I didn't watch their previous interactions I would've been rooting for it in spite of the questionable actions. Frankly however you put it, the dress and necklace is inappropriate, and the only thing that annoyed me was Felicity not calling him out on it. I feel I'm supposed to be swept off my feet along with her but I'm stumbling on the details of Ray's intentions as her BOSS. I really feel we're supposed to assume they became much closer and Felicity's much more comfortable with him. Which considering the amount of times she's broken down in front of him (really show?) shouldn't surprise me, yet I still wanted one or two extra scenes to make it believable.

I feel like ep 7 was really the first time we saw Felicity stretch her wings and show us her negotiating capabilities, which annoys me because FINALLY it's about her, but not really because it was about Ray. I'm fairly bored with this whole Ray as LI story because I was hoping we'd get more focus on other facets of Felicity. Like The Secret Origins. So I was super happy she got to be all business savvy, and that her compassion and light could shine through to the mine owner, allowing her to negotiate in the way she knows how.

Rock on independent Felicity!!

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

SA said on the Arrow Aftershow that they one of the reviewers they pay attention to is GreenArrow TV (which recently blamed the dislike of Laurel on mostly female fans who won't give the show enough leeway to fix her).

https://twitter.com/...844755394703360

 

That they pay attention to GreenArrow TV is disappointing but not surprising.  KSite was happy to glom onto Arrow early on as  a replacement for Smallville.  The site in my experience tows the company line to gain its special spoilers and since Arrow initially tried selling Lauriver, they would have done their best to sell it no matter what convoluted explanation they had to sell themselves.  They had plenty of practice sticking their head in the sand during Smallville IMO.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

but Oracle has not had any real life portrayals outside of the comics (minus that short lived BoP show which no one really remembers) so for the 99.6% of us on plant earth who don't read comics and only watches TV there really hasn't been any/many mid 20's, super smart, well rounded and loved characters as Felicity on our TV screens.

I'm a 90's kid with early 2000's teen years, and I can't really remember any female character like her on my TV screen, the only two exception off the top of my head from the past 20 years are Clarissa from "Clarissa explains it all" and Chloe from Smallville. And even then, the former was a teen, and the later started as a teen.

 

And if the woman writing the article meant to refer to characters on TV shows in general, then she should have said that. The somewhat snooty "superhero storytelling" makes me think she intended it to include comic books, which would still account for about 99% of all superhero storytelling, since superheroes as a concept were created.

 

This is a television problem, but I would think that if I did look at every TV show created, I'd find plenty of examples of intelligent women who were loved for being intelligent. Is it a bad message to send? Of course not. It's a great message. I just don't think it's as ground-breaking as this writer claims it is.

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Kordi

Kordi

The Entertainment Weekly article, which this pic is taken from, is about Greg Berlanti as the creator of "Arrow" and "Flash", and furthermore, Stephen Amell, in his corresponding Facebook post, referred to Berlanti as "my boss". I guess this explains why the picture has Berlanti sitting in an armchair in the center while Amell/ "Arrow" and Gustin/ "Flash" are "serving" him. This set-up emphasizes the creator/ boss relation Berlanti has with both men. I think it is supposed to be funny. But, yes, it is a little strange IMO.

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

So, out of boredom I've been wandering around the web, and I came across an interview with Stephen Amell from the beginning of season 2. It was so strange, it seemed to me as if there was a complete different feeling about the show in general compared to now. I don't know if it's just me projecting what I do know has then happened on the show (it was a little bit spoilerish for the time), the obvious change in tone from last season to the current one, or something else. Also, it looks like now they give spoilers every chance they have, while in this interview I read, some things were definitely held back. Do you notice any difference from last year to now?

Edited by looptab
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

From the article:

 

That being said, they still have amazing chemistry. Which kind of goes without saying, because we also ship her with Barry Allen, Ray Palmer, the ghost of Tommy Merlyn, and a piece Oliver’s yacht we saw floating on the island’s shores one time. She’s that likable.

 

The ghost of Tommy Merlyn makes me smile too.  It's so true. 

 

Back in the day Chloe Sullivan was like that too.  She still has a popular subset of stories pairing her with the boys from Supernatural.  I'm not sure if she's had to choose which one.  ;)

Edited by BkWurm1
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wingster55

wingster55

Back in the day Chloe Sullivan was like that too.  She still has a popular subset of stories pairing her with the boys from Supernatural.  I'm not sure if she's had to choose which one.  ;)

 

I'd say Chloe was a better example actually. Not only was she shipped with everyone...she had the most (potential) love interests I think (not including one-ep characters). Pete, Clark, Jimmy, Oliver, Lex, Davis, Lionel.

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slayer2

slayer2

I'd say Chloe was a better example actually. Not only was she shipped with everyone...she had the most (potential) love interests I think (not including one-ep characters). Pete, Clark, Jimmy, Oliver, Lex, Davis, Lionel.

Oh Chloe! How I love her. No one comes close. No one. Sometimes I think she was written by the one good writer.

Has there been any news on The Huntress return?

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wingster55

wingster55

but Oracle has not had any real life portrayals outside of the comics (minus that short lived BoP show which no one really remembers) so for the 99.6% of us on plant earth who don't read comics and only watches TV there really hasn't been any/many mid 20's, super smart, well rounded and loved characters as Felicity on our TV screens.

I'm a 90's kid with early 2000's teen years, and I can't really remember any female character like her on my TV screen, the only two exception off the top of my head from the past 20 years are Clarissa from "Clarissa explains it all" and Chloe from Smallville. And even then, the former was a teen, and the later started as a teen.

Veronica Mars. Just saying

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manbearpig

manbearpig

I pretty much hated Clark and loved Lex. If I had my way, the ow would have focused on Lionel, Chloe and Lex...that would have been a good show.

 

This is pretty much exactly why season three is my favourite season of Smallville. Lionel and Lex's insane dynamic and Chloe's involvement in that storyline made for some pretty entertaining television.

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JenMcSnark

JenMcSnark

I didn't watch Smallville, but I have to say this.  If you ever have a chance to see the guy that played Lex Luthor at a Con or panel, take it.  Do not hesitate.  He is incredibly funny and his whole panel was him walking around in the audience interacting with people. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I didn't watch Smallville, but I have to say this.  If you ever have a chance to see the guy that played Lex Luthor at a Con or panel, take it.  Do not hesitate.  He is incredibly funny and his whole panel was him walking around in the audience interacting with people. 

Michel Rosenbaum is great.  We didn't get too many outtakes from Smallville but his were always something to look forward to.

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wingster55

wingster55

Emily Bett Rickards‘s Felicity Smoak is the most popular quirky/brainy blonde in superhero-ville since Harley Quinn

 

Chloe Sullivan anyone?

Hate that SV isn't getting its due just because it's not on the air anymore.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

Nice article! That's pretty cool Felicity is getting compared to Harley Quinn. Not quite sure she's really there yet, but I'm ABSOLUTELY loving that somebody writing for a publication like Forbes is making that comparison. Love that Diggle/David Ramsey gets a nod, too. Add that to Alyssa Rosenberg of The Washington Post singling Felicity and Diggle out as her favorite characters (not just of Arrow), and I'm a happy core Team Arrow supporter!

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slayer2

slayer2

Nice article! That's pretty cool Felicity is getting compared to Harley Quinn. Not quite sure she's really there yet, but I'm ABSOLUTELY loving that somebody writing for a publication like Forbes is making that comparison. Love that Diggle/David Ramsey gets a nod, too. Add that to Alyssa Rosenberg of The Washington Post singling Felicity and Diggle out as her favorite characters (not just of Arrow), and I'm a happy core Team Arrow supporter!

Ha! I totally read that as Alyson Rosenberg then went all Willow-y in my mind. Another favourite!

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

I love that Mo Ryan retweeted Connie's mini-recap of the Olicity scenes from The Flash and that she's as big a fan of those recaps as a lot of us are. 

 

Mo Ryan @moryan

@justjenn @ConnieBV Connie makes me die laughing and smiling and nodding my head every time. The best :)

 

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