The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[KenyaJ]

Ken Tucker was one of my absolute favorite critics back during his Entertainment Weekly days, and I'm so excited that he's the new TV critic for Yahoo. I found myself nodding my head and agreeing with so much of his review of the Flarrow crossover. I especially loved the shoutout to EBR/Felicity.  :-)

[benteen]

Glad to hear this crossover really helped the ratings.  I think this guaranteed that this will at least be a yearly thing.

Edited December 4, 2014 by benteen

[SonofaBiscuit]

It would be great if the EPs would analyze the episodes that do really well and take note of what is working and what is not.  I mean, if you take a look at the this episode's thread, you'll see multiple people independently praising the same things.  Unfortunately, I think that the EPs probably just pat themselves on the back and then continue to make the show that we "need."

[Lord Kira]

It would be great if the EPs would analyze the episodes that do really well and take note of what is working and what is not.  I mean, if you take a look at the this episode's thread, you'll see multiple people independently praising the same things.  Unfortunately, I think that the EPs probably just pat themselves on the back and then continue to make the show that we "need."

 

They should figure it out when the ratings go back down to 0.8 levels or lower for the 4-part Laurel-centered episodes in January.

[NumberCruncher]

Yeah, I don't expect these ratings will hold for long. I think they'll definitely bump ratings going into next week's mid-season finale, but between the long hiatus and

Oliver-lite

episodes after the break I suspect that they'll be back down in their usual range or lower. It's a shame these episodes were timed going into a hiatus instead of a stretch of intense, arc-centric episodes.

[statsgirl]

I sometimes disagree with Ken Tucker's assessment of what's necessary for a show (he would have preferred to have Wilson as the only supporting character on House) but I do partly agree with this:

 

Arrow’s supporting-cast mythology is becoming increasingly unnecessary. Does anyone still care what Laurel Lance or Thea Queen is up to? Does anyone still yearn for those narrative-stopping flashbacks to Ollie Queen’s exotic-locale tortured past?

While the flashbacks are useful in telling us the story, there are far too many of them and not enough time on some of the supporting characters.

[ban1o]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/12/04/wednesday-final-ratings-no-adjustment-for-arrow-modern-family-or-the-100/335389/

 

 

So actuals remained the same. Amazing for Arrow. I wonder how they will hold up next week for the fall finale. 

[writersblock51]

So far, this is the only negative review of the 3.08 - I guess I agree, sort of with the Captain Boomerang stuff at ARGUS, but really, I'm not sure what this reviewer was expecting overall.  Seems like an anomaly of a review in a sea of very enthusiastic ones.

 

http://io9.com/arrows-flash-crossover-was-a-catastrophic-misfire-1666574234

[wingster55]

I absolutely care about Thea. More than anyone else not named Oliver or Diggle. 

[BkWurm1]

I care about Thea but I don't care about douche bag DJ kissing her against my will.  I want the Thea/Malcolm story even if it's them having tea and talking about slapping water. 

[wonderwall]

I care about Thea too, which is why I'm vehemently against the idea of her killing Sara. BUT, I have to say, if she doesn't get any screentime or if she isn't in an episode then I don't think I'd miss her as much as I'd miss Oliver, Digg, Felicity. 

[statsgirl]

I cared about Thea a lot more over the summer when I thought they were going to do a twisted storyline with her and Malcolm.  But they've only done 2 episodes out of 9 with anything of them on it and I didn't enjoy The Magician. If Thea is going to be relegated to being a plot contrivance and kissing the sleazy DJ, I'd rather the show gave me more on Diggle or Felicity or Roy.

[tv echo]

And yet another reference to Joss Whedon...

"ARROW" AND "FLASH" EPS ON CHANNELING COMIC BOOK CROSSOVERS, FUTURE TEAM-UPS
Wed, December 3rd, 2014 at 12:00pm PST
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=57499

 

This reviewer wants more crossovers...

‘Flash vs. Arrow’ Must Happen At Least Twice a Year
By Paul on Dec 5, 2014
http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/flash-vs-arrow-must-happen-least-twice-year-246132

 

Here's jbuffyangel's in-depth review of "The Brave and the Bold"...
What Does It Mean To Be A Hero? The Brave and The Bold Arrow 3×08 Review
December 5th,2014 |  jbuffyangel |
http://www.oliverandfelicity.com/2014/12/05/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-hero-the-brave-and-the-bold-arrow-3x08-review/

Edited December 6, 2014 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From John Campea...

 

Arrow After Show Season 3 Episode 8 "The Brave and the Bold"
Published Dec. 3, 2014, by thestreamtv  

[Chaser]

My favorite parts of the AfterShow was the laughter at the villain disappearing in a smoke bomb (I hadn't noticed that at first, but it is hilarious) and Campea's comments on the comics influence on the show. I did roll my eyes at the praise for the EPs attention to detail because the handling of Sara's life/death. 

 

FYI: If you don't want to listen to Laurel-bashing, Campea does tone it down. He only listed an absent Laurel as a positive for the episode. A fan did ask him if he thinks the show could change his mind on Laurel, similar to the way he has been warming to Roy this season. He gives a five minute answer about how the writing has failed Laurel/KC and how they should handle the Laurel/BC storyline (either drop it completely or have Laurel as a background player for a season or two so people can get used to seeing her before trying BC).   

[foreverevolving]

My favorite parts of the AfterShow was the laughter at the villain disappearing in a smoke bomb (I hadn't noticed that at first, but it is hilarious) and Campea's comments on the comics influence on the show. I did roll my eyes at the praise for the EPs attention to detail because the handling of Sara's life/death. 

 

FYI: If you don't want to listen to Laurel-bashing, Campea does tone it down. He only listed an absent Laurel as a positive for the episode. A fan did ask him if he thinks the show could change his mind on Laurel, similar to the way he has been warming to Roy this season. He gives a five minute answer about how the writing has failed Laurel/KC and how they should handle the Laurel/BC storyline (either drop it completely or have Laurel as a background player for a season or two so people can get used to seeing her before trying BC).

I would argue they have been using her as background character for the last two years, even if that wasn't their intention, and it's not working.

[wonderwall]

I would argue they have been using her as background character for the last two years, even if that wasn't their intention, and it's not working.

She's only had, what, an hour of screentime the past 9 episodes? Which averages out to 8-9 minutes per episode minus the last two which she was barely in. I don't think that's a lot of screentime, but why does it feel like she's being shoved down my throat? I feel like that's how trying her character is. 

 

I agree with John campea in the sense that they should cut her screentime to 3-4 minutes per episode, let her build a character, a personality, positive relationships with the core of the show and then eventually increase it and maybe in the mean time give that 3-4 minutes to team arrow or John Diggle. 

[statsgirl]

Moving my reply to the Slings and Arrows thread because it's about how the EPs should have handled Laurel.  (Or maybe it should be in the Laurel thread, I'm not sure any more.)

Edited December 7, 2014 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

Five Major Questions After Arrow’s Mid-Season Finale
By Andy on Dec 11, 2014 

http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/five-major-questions-arrows-mid-season-finale-246447

[tv echo]

From John Campea (he had some of the same reactions as I did after watching this episode)...

Arrow After Show Season 3 Episode 9 "The Climb"
Streamed live on Dec 10, 2014, by thestreamtv

Edited December 12, 2014 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's Alan Sepinwall's review of "The Climb"...

 

Review: 'Arrow' - 'The Climb': Cliffhanger
'ARROW' SAYS GOODBYE TO 2014 WITH SOME TERRIFIC FIGHT SCENES, BUT ALSO SOME SLUGGISHNESS
By Alan Sepinwall  @Sepinwall | WEDNESDAY, DEC 10, 2014 10:49 PM
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-arrow-the-climb-cliffhanger

[tv echo]

Reading reviews of "The Climb" actually makes me view that episode more positively (I now think I was a little harsh in my initial review)...

 

Arrow: The Climb review
Review Mike Cecchini 12/10/2014 at 9:50PM
http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/arrow/242044/arrow-the-climb-review

 

Arrow: “The Climb”
In which Oliver dies the way he lived: shirtless and befuddled...
By Alasdair Wilkins  Dec 10, 2014 11:50 PM
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/arrow-climb-212881

 

ARROW: "THE CLIMB" REVIEW
"SEE YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN."
JESSE SCHEDEEN→ DECEMBER 10, 2014
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/11/arrow-the-climb-review

 

Arrow recap: 'The Climb'
Oliver faces his toughest opponent yet: Ra's al Ghul. Ep. 09 | Aired Dec 10, 2014
Chancellor Agard on Dec 10, 2014 at 11:58PM
http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/arrow-season-3-episode-9/

[tv echo]

jbuffyangel's review of "The Climb" (as usual, it's great)...

 

The Brightest Light Before The Dark: The Climb Arrow 3×09 Review
December 14th,2014 |  jbuffyangel
http://www.oliverandfelicity.com/2014/12/14/the-brightest-light-before-the-dark-the-climb-arrow-3x09-review/#more-4576

 

The sun begins to rise behind Oliver. A beam illuminating his face as we slowly watch him remember those he loves the most- the people who are the source of Oliver Queen’s light. Oliver’s light is made from pure love, it’s what makes him innately good. And so he takes his last moments to think of them. It only makes sense that we are reminded of the source of his light, as it begins to fade from his eyes. As Ra’s Al Ghul promised it would.

Heartbreaking!

[tv echo]

I agree with just about all of this review...

 

Arrow S03E09: What Worked, What Didn't, and What Needs To Happen Next
By Laura Hurley   December 13, 2014 2:31 PM MST
http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s03e09-what-worked-what-didn-t-and-what-needs-to-happen-next

[Genki]

I agree with just about all of this review...

 

Arrow S03E09: What Worked, What Didn't, and What Needs To Happen Next

By Laura Hurley   December 13, 2014 2:31 PM MST

http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s03e09-what-worked-what-didn-t-and-what-needs-to-happen-next

 

That was spot on.

[JenMcSnark]

I agree with just about all of this review...

 

Arrow S03E09: What Worked, What Didn't, and What Needs To Happen Next

By Laura Hurley   December 13, 2014 2:31 PM MST

http://www.examiner.com/article/arrow-s03e09-what-worked-what-didn-t-and-what-needs-to-happen-next

 

Excellent review.  I loved this part:

 

On a final note: How on earth did Thea not recognize her brother in the Arrow suit? Oliver left her, unsatisfied after she would not answer questions about Malcolm Merlyn, and then the Oliver-shaped Arrow with Oliver-esque stubble appears in the loft that she shares with Oliver to continue the line of questioning. Come on, Thea. Although, considering her crop top/sparkly hammer pants ensemble, it’s entirely possible that her eyes weren’t working in “The Climb.”

[tv echo]

This is a great interview with Katrina Law (no spoilers)...

 

Katrina Law Talks The Midseason Finale of ARROW, Lazarus Pits, Talia Al Ghul, Flashbacks, and More! (Exclusive)
Posted by: Alex Welch   6 days ago
http://schmoesknow.com/katrina-law-talks-the-midseason-finale-of-arrow-lazarus-pits-talia-al-ghul-flashbacks-and-more-exclusive/32257/

[statsgirl]

TV Junkies: Five couples in need of mistletoe

 

 

OLIVER AND FELICITY – ARROW

We’re not even going to talk about the major complication facing these two at the moment, because if you saw the Arrow midseason finale then you know exactly what we’re talking about. While Oliver may have expressed his love for Felicity, he’s also made it perfectly clear that because of his duties as the Arrow he can’t be involved personally with anyone at the moment. While Felicity would certainly prefer if he changed his mind, we can’t blame her for moving on at the moment with Ray Palmer. We’re hoping that the new year will cause Oliver to reevaluate those feelings and once again give us moments such as this one:

[apinknightmare]

Stephen was named one of this year's coolest straight people in entertainment by The Advocate:

 

 

 

Stephen Amell
The man who brings DC Comics’ emerald archer to life on the small screen has also been an ace ally for LGBT people, often taking aim at antigay attitudes and promoting equality through his active social media presence. While promoting Arrow via a Facebook post in February, Amell called attention to the fact that the Winter Olympics was taking place in a homophobic country where discrimination against LGBT people is the law of the land. He told fans the superhero show would be taking a “mini hiatus so people can grit their teeth and suffer through an Olympic games marred by homophobia and mediocre levels of public interest.”

Amell also spoke passionately at Comic-Con International in July about Arrow breaking new ground for LGBT people in entertainment when the series introduced its version of DC Comics’ martial arts master Black Canary (Sara Lance) as a kick-ass bisexual — a first for a superhero series on TV — who had been in relationships with both Oliver Queen (played by Amell) and the daughter of the villainous Ras al Ghul. He was also clear homophobic reactions to the storyline were not welcome. “It’s 2014, [homophobes] need to get over it,” he told The Advocate. “The thing that I liked most about [the reveal of Sara's sexuality] is that we didn’t make a big deal of it. We didn’t say, ‘This is a special episode of Arrow.’ We didn’t put a parental advisory before it. Sara and Nyssa have a relationship like Sara and I have a relationship, and that’s all it was. So I hope we get the opportunity to do more of that because we can and we should.”

 

EXCEPT YOU CAN'T NOW BECAUSE YOUR SHOW KILLED HER OFF, AND WHAT'S THE LIKELIHOOD OF THERE BEING ANOTHER BISEXUAL BADASS IN TOWN?! I  mean, I'd love it if there was, but there's not going to be another one. 

 

Forever bitter. 

[Sakura12]

They'll probably go with they still have badass Nyssa, Sara's lover that is on the show for 3 or 4 episodes out of 23. You can't see their relationship anymore because one of them is dead. You're welcome, LGBT community!

 

I also loved the "DC Comics Martial Arts Master Black Canary". You don't have that anymore either, Arrow! You now have constantly damseled, couple of boxing lessons Black Canary. I hope DC really thinks the right name means that much to have one of their female heroes portrayed like that. 

Edited December 17, 2014 by Sakura12

[KenyaJ]

On this week's Ryan & Ryan podcast, Maureen Ryan and Ryan McGee discussed their top shows of 2014. At the beginning of the episode, they discussed how the best shows are those that can "activate" their characters and make you care about the characters, their motivation, and their actions. And then, of all the characters on television, they used Laurel as the example of when that fails to happen.

[Sakura12]

I don't mind her but I know Skye is hated on here, however most of the media doesn't seem to have a problem with her. As for Laurel most of the media, podcasts and reviewers think of the character as downside of the show. (to put it nicely). That's more than the usual disgruntled fans. I think that's the first time I've seen that much dislike for a character that is not supposed to be hated (like Joffrey on Game of Thrones). People hated Kate's wishy washy antics on Lost, but no one saw her a failure of character. Even on Lana on Smallville's main complaint was there was too much of her. 

 

Laurel seems to be the only character that equals failure on all counts. 

[KenyaJ]

I don't mind her but I know Skye is hated on here, however most of the media doesn't seem to have a problem with her.

 

Mo cited Skye and Ward as examples of when a show "figures it out" and manages to make you care about previously maligned characters.

[Angel12d]

Here's another 309 review. It's pretty negative but makes some really valid points and I usually like what this reviewer has to say.

 

http://wewatchfortheplot.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/i-wish-that-sounded-more-convincing/

[statsgirl]

Here's another 309 review. It's pretty negative but makes some really valid points and I usually like what this reviewer has to say.

She really does make good points, everyone is still taking away Thea's autonomy, and Sara's death was such a waste of both the character and the story.  I can appreciate why she's fed up with the show.

[Starfish35]

Here's another 309 review. It's pretty negative but makes some really valid points and I usually like what this reviewer has to say.

 

http://wewatchfortheplot.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/i-wish-that-sounded-more-convincing/

She's not wrong, about anything she's saying. I didn't hate the episode like she did, but I think that's because to some extent I've managed to emotionally disconnect from it. It helps that I've only watched about four episodes so far this season - lol.

She's especially right about how the show's been treating women this season, although I would argue that started with Shado's pointless murder in season two.

[Lokiberry]

Stephen was named one of this year's coolest straight people in entertainment by The Advocate:

 

 

EXCEPT YOU CAN'T NOW BECAUSE YOUR SHOW KILLED HER OFF, AND WHAT'S THE LIKELIHOOD OF THERE BEING ANOTHER BISEXUAL BADASS IN TOWN?! I  mean, I'd love it if there was, but there's not going to be another one. 

 

Forever bitter. 

In 2002, Joss Whedon got a drink thrown in his face for killing off Tara, Willow's girfriend on Buffy. In 2014, Arrow gets praise for killing off, in the most disrespecful way possible, their kickass bisexual superhero, and giving her identity to her heterosexual sister.

Aren't things supposed to get better?

[tv echo]

In memoriam: 2014 TV character deaths

Danielle Zimmerman 12:00 pm, December 17, 2014
http://www.hypable.com/2014/12/17/in-memoriam-2014-tv-character-deaths/#1

Sara Lance ('Arrow')

The only thing that keeps running through our minds, especially after Arrow's midseason killer reveal, is "Why did Sara have to die?" We loved seeing her kick major butt on our screens each week and we loved getting to know her character intimately. We miss her more than we can say.

Edited December 18, 2014 by tv echo

[Orion]

I hope I didn't miss someone posting this. Really interesting article, the writer interviewed on of the most known writers for Green Arrow comic books, Dennis O'Neil (you might remember him from Felicity name dropping him on Arrow "At the corner of Adams and O'Neil") and the person who co-created Ra's and asked him his thoughts on Arrow.   He gives his thoughts on Oliver,  Nyssa, torture and the overall story. http://comicbook.com/2014/12/11/arrow-ra-s-al-ghul-creator-dennis-o-neil-talks-the-midseason-fin/

 

My favorite part and the quote that I could just hug.

 

Well, it’s not our Oliver Queen. But that’s not necessarily a condemnation, because the creators’ jobs are to take a basic idea, and make television out of it. They’re not supposed to cram old comic books onto a television screen. They have to reinvent it.

[statsgirl]

 

. Torture does no good, and it is not worthy of civilized people to engage in that.

 

i'd never heard of him before, but he's got my vote.

 

Interesting that he objects to the drinking on the show; pre-island Oliver did a lot but post-island Oliver barely does any.

[Lisin]

Several posts discussing Sara's death have been moved over to the Sara topic. If you're missing something you can find it there.

[Starfish35]

TVGuide - James Bamford talks about training

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Arrow-James-Bamford-Fight-Oliver-Queen-1091182.aspx?et=watchlist-notification&lt=news

[JenMD]

Arrow made The Bullseye in Entertainment Weekly's Dec. 26/Jan. 2, 2015 Preview Issue.  "He died the way he lived: shirtless."  Aw and hee!  Accompanied by (naturally) a pic of shirtless Oliver.

[tv echo]

I hope I didn't miss someone posting this. Really interesting article, the writer interviewed on of the most known writers for Green Arrow comic books, Dennis O'Neil (you might remember him from Felicity name dropping him on Arrow "At the corner of Adams and O'Neil") and the person who co-created Ra's and asked him his thoughts on Arrow.   He gives his thoughts on Oliver,  Nyssa, torture and the overall story. http://comicbook.com/2014/12/11/arrow-ra-s-al-ghul-creator-dennis-o-neil-talks-the-midseason-fin/

 

My favorite part and the quote that I could just hug.

Agree.  I also liked what he said immediately after that quote:

I think that they improved Oliver’s backstory immensely. And it being television, I understand why there’s so much emphasis on family, both Oliver’s biological family and his symbolic family with Felicity and Roy and Diggle. It’s not the way we played him in the comics, but it’s a perfectly legitimate way to do the character.

[Danny Franks]

Denny O'Neil is pretty great, to be honest. He's one of those comic book creators who seems to understand that anything he works on is something that has temporarily been entrusted to him, and will go on long after the stories he's written. He doesn't get precious about characters and stories, the way so many other comic book writers do (Alan Moore and Frank Miller, for example). Of course, he's told the tales of how people reacted to his reinvention of Wonder Woman (something he admits he was wrong about) and his killing of Robin, so it's not like he could have many illusions about the fact that people who read the books thirty years earlier will care about the characters even if they don't care about what you're doing with them.

 

He's one of the more socially aware comic book writers, having come to the fore in the '70s and the values he holds always seemed to come through in the work he did. Green Lantern/Green Arrow was pretty much the seminal 'issues' book of that decade, so I can understand why he has some reservations about the cavalier way that the writers of Arrow have approached a few different aspects of storytelling.

 

Really, it's interesting to see what an out-and-out comic book writer's view of the show is. Not many are forthcoming. I think Gail Simone, when asked about Sara's death, just said she didn't watch the show and left it at that.

[Morrigan2575]

He's one of the more socially aware comic book writers, having come to the fore in the '70s and the values he holds always seemed to come through in the work he did. Green Lantern/Green Arrow was pretty much the seminal 'issues' book of that decade, so I can understand why he has some reservations about the cavalier way that the writers of Arrow have approached a few different aspects of storytelling.

I've heard a ton of good things about the Green Lantern/Green Arrow run. I keep meaning to buy the books but always procrastinate.

That was an interesting read, I liked the article. O'Neil comes across as thoughtful and understanding, he looks at both the comics and the show and views the differences on merit of what they bring to the show and whynit might be necessary. He doesn't just say it's not like the comics so it's bad/wrong etc.

Really, it's interesting to see what an out-and-out comic book writer's view of the show is. Not many are forthcoming. I think Gail Simone, when asked about Sara's death, just said she didn't watch the show and left it at that.

I really wish she would have commented. I can't imagine the woman who coined "women in refrigerators" would have been happy with them litterally shoving a woman in a refrigerator (ok freezer, same difference). Especially Black Canary (or a version of) which Gail Simone is noted as being one of the best BC writers in comics. Edited December 21, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

This article is interesting because these guys seem to love the addition of more DC characters like Ted Grant/Wildcat and Ray Palmer/ATOM (more superhero stuff from the comics) and are also excited about Laurel becoming the BC.  This must the demographic that the EPs are writing to...

 

Arrow Season 3 Mid-Season Roundtable
By Andy on Dec 20, 2014
http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/arrow-season-3-mid-season-roundtable-246967

[catrox14]

Never mind

Edited December 21, 2014 by catrox14

[Kymmi]

That was an interesting round table.  Not sure I agree with what they liked, but certainly agreed with this view of what didn't work for him.

 

 

 

Chris: My main issues with Arrow Season 3 are structural problems. I feel like, at the moment, the season doesn’t have a real purpose to it yet, aside from Oliver discovering who he truly is, and while that is very compelling, it’s not as strong as the show’s second season conflict with Brother Blood and, eventually, Slade Wilson was. The search for Sara’s killer, which has taken up much of Arrow Season 3 hasn’t had the same type of urgency that the series has possessed in the past. Right now, the show feels like it’s just wandering from plot point to plot point, and while I still enjoy episodes on an individual level and love the show’s characters, I wonder what the direction will be for this season’s overall story arc.
Read more at http://www.tvovermind.com/arrow/arrow-season-3-mid-season-roundtable-246967#Dzgi5Ec5HYYOfIH7.99

 

Totally agree on purpose.  Too many plot points. 

 

On the other hand, the crossover episode may be my favorite Arrow episode of all seasons.

[statsgirl]

This article is interesting because these guys seem to love the addition of more DC characters like Ted Grant/Wildcat and Ray Palmer/ATOM (more superhero stuff from the comics) and are also excited about Laurel becoming the BC.  This must the demographic that the EPs are writing to...

It's strange to think so, but I believe you're right.  They think Laurel has earned the right to be the Black Canary (how? by being on the show for 2 1/2 season?), and love all the DC characters coming on but complain that there are too many plot points as if the two aren't connected. 

 

It wasn't so obvious in s2 but this season, with so many more DC characters coming on and good original characters like Moira and Sara now dead, there seems to be a divide in the viewers between those who seem to come for the action with their checklists of DC characters, and those who got hooked into what the show was the first two seasons and now miss the storytelling and the original characters.