The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[way2interested]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

It actually hadn't occurred to me that we might get an E2 Diggle or even Felicity.  (Though they both probably would be cameos at best). But now I want that.  

Same, tbh. I thought that they were going to do that in the Flash's big E2 two-parter and was actually disappointed that there wasn't any main-ish cameos from the other shows (though I did like seeing Michael Rowe as a cop). And I still liked the snippets of alt-Diggle and alt-Felicity in 508 and Felicity's cameo in LoT, so I'm all for cameos (especially if they can placate me through origin story flashbacks that would be longer than Dinah's from 511).

[tv echo]

Underscoring the fact that the EPs only expected Arrow to run 5 seasons, here's a flashback to a July 2012 interview with MG and AK...

'Arrow' producers explain why Justin Hartley wasn't cast
James Hibberd  Jul. 30, 2012
http://ew.com/article/2012/07/30/arrow-cast/

Quote

“We’re exploring the nature of vigilantism … and well get into those [moral] issues,” Guggenheim said. “The Arrow always gives the bad guy the opportunity to do the right thing … when he kills, he kills for necessity … it’s not just random violence … we’ll face the issues of his morality head on…that’s part of the fun quite, frankly, when telling a story about a vigilante.”
*  *  *
Producers also gave a hint of how the series will end — now there’s something you don’t often get during an interview before a show has even premiered! Arrow‘s pilot features flashbacks to Queen being stranded on an island where he morphed from selfish rich kid to vigilant hero. Those flashbacks, producers say, will continue in every episode for the entire series.

“The last episode of the series will be [Arrow] seeing the [rescue] boat in the pilot,” said executive producer Andrew Kreisberg. “Every week is telling the origin story.”

Edited June 2, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

I like the first paragraph in view of that attempt to sell the POV that Oliver killed indiscriminately and without remorse this season.

[leopardprint]

17 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I like the first paragraph in view of that attempt to sell the POV that Oliver killed indiscriminately and without remorse this season.

That's a great point, @bijoux, this season often seemed like it was written by people who just read some season summaries on wikipedia or something, and were like "Ok, GA is the superhero that kills people, got it." Very, very shallow (even for a CW show). 

Edited June 2, 2017 by leopardprint

[way2interested]

26 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I like the first paragraph in view of that attempt to sell the POV that Oliver killed indiscriminately and without remorse this season.

To be fair, only Oliver and Chase believed that, the narrative, Diggle, Felicity and then later Oliver (and really the show) didn't really try to sell that at all. Though, MG did have that quote IIRC that was him trying to pretend that it was some revelation, kind of like how WM and MG were trying to say it was Billy's death that set Felicity towards the Helix path even though the narrative said otherwise.

Edited June 2, 2017 by way2interested

[bijoux]

Oh, I don't really think it was sold on show, but the EPs tried to do so in interviews which I found really funny.

[statsgirl]

I always wonder, when EPs try to sell something in interviews that isn't what is shown on the show, is it that they don't watch their own show?  That they tried to write it their way but failed and so they're trying to course correct, or that they're deliberately trying to snow us? 

It makes no sense to me.

[leopardprint]

25 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I always wonder, when EPs try to sell something in interviews that isn't what is shown on the show, is it that they don't watch their own show?  That they tried to write it their way but failed and so they're trying to course correct, or that they're deliberately trying to snow us? 

It makes no sense to me.

Yes, it cause them more grief this way, too. Imagine if WM and MG hadn't made those comments about the temp LIs, spared them a lot of hassle. 

[strikera0]

Another Most Annoying Arrowverse Couples list. This time from CBR. Here's how they ranked them for people who don't want to give the site any clicks:

1. Oliver/Felicity

2. Vandal Savage/Hawkgirl (LOT)

3. Ray Palmer/Hawkgirl (LOT)

4. Caitlin Snow/Ronnie Raymond (The Flash)

5. Oliver/Sara Lance

6. Barry Allen/Patty Spivot (The Flash)

7. Oliver/Susan Williams

8. Winn/Siobhan Smythe (Supergirl)

9. James Olsen/Lucy Lane (Supergirl)

10. Kara/Adam Grant (Supergirl)

11. Nate/Amaya (LOT)

12. Barry Allen/Linda Park (The Flash)

13. Moira Queen/Malcolm Merlyn 

14. Laurel Lance/Tommy Merlyn 

15. Kara/James Olsen (Supergirl)

[leopardprint]

So basically Oliver/not Laurel Lance? 

[scarynikki12]

Vandal and Hawkgirl were never a couple. 

[calliope1975]

Basically, all romantic pairings? 'Cept the ones I read about in a comic book.

[Chaser]

44 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

So basically Oliver/not Laurel Lance? 

And Barry/Not Iris West. 

LOL no bias to be found here 

[apinknightmare]

LOL:

Quote

As for Oliver, he and Laurel have always seemed to understand each other, and support each other, on a much more equal level. Arrow should stop teasing ‘shippers, and stop torturing everyone else, by ending Olicity once and for all.

Edited June 2, 2017 by apinknightmare

[JenMD]

Huh, I don't think that version of the show airs on my CW station.  Maybe it's a regional thing.

[insomniadreams88]

What I don't understand is Laurel is still dead. Do they think that Black Siren is going to turn into Laurel next season?

And why do the people who put together these lists ignore that it's a fact that Oliver's happier with Felicity than he has been with anyone else?  Do they not want Oliver happy? 

[catrox14]

I can't believe CBR never mentioned the main reason Sara Lance and Oliver was not a good long term pairing was that she was Laurel's sister and equally why  Laurel should never be with Oliver...well that and Laurel IS DEAD, DEAD, DEAD as in really most sincerely DEAD, DEAD, DEAD.

Edited June 2, 2017 by catrox14

[Cleanqueen]

Quote

As for Oliver, he and Laurel have always seemed to understand each other, and support each other, on a much more equal level. Arrow should stop teasing ‘shippers, and stop torturing everyone else, by ending Olicity once and for all.

[strikera0]

13 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

What I don't understand is Laurel is still dead. Do they think that Black Siren is going to turn into Laurel next season?

They think that if Black Siren achieves redemption and becomes BC version 4.0, she and Oliver will automatically fall in love with each other because E1 Oliver used to love E1 Laurel and the same is true for the E2 versions of the characters. 

[insomniadreams88]

Oh, and there's this part:

Quote

Other fans, however, don’t see how Felicity and Oliver make sense as a couple at all. The two of them give off an older brother / younger sister vibe.

How? Just - how? 

[Chaser]

CBR should be required to prove those statements.

[Cleanqueen]

3 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

They think that if Black Siren achieves redemption and becomes BC version 4.0, she and Oliver will automatically fall in love with each other because E1 Oliver used to love E1 Laurel and the same is true for the E2 versions of the characters. 

The funny thing is nobody even knows whether E2 Oliver had any feelings for her. I am pretty certain he got on that boat to get away from her and her sister was with him. E2 LL is just as pathetic as E1 LL, thinking a man who doesnt want her is the love of her life. Same events, different earths. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Oh, and there's this part:

Quote

Other fans, however, don’t see how Felicity and Oliver make sense as a couple at all. The two of them give off an older brother / younger sister vibe.

How? Just - how? 

I worry about what kind of family environment these people grew up in if that's how they think siblings look at/behave around each other. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by apinknightmare

[tangerine95]

13 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

What I don't understand is Laurel is still dead. Do they think that Black Siren is going to turn into Laurel next season?

Same,but I guess like everything else with L/O and LL in general all that matters is that she's called Dinah Laurel Lance just like in the comics.Doesn't matter that Laurel is dead and even when she was alive Oliver still didn't want to be with her and that this is her evil E2 version that tried to kill Oliver and everyone he cares about or that he's been in love with someone else for years now.

[lemotomato]

24 minutes ago, JenMD said:

Huh, I don't think that version of the show airs on my CW station.  Maybe it's a regional thing.

I'm convinced it's an entirely different Earth thing. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by lemotomato

[tangerine95]

The whole always support each other on an equal level part is especially hilarious to me because there's literally an episode,4.05 I think,where Laurel is accusing Oliver of never supporting or accepting her as BC and not treating her as an equal lol.

[lemotomato]

I don't think LL said anything supportive of Oliver until mid season 4. ("I know you in my bones" doesn't count, since it's more about what she thinks he is, when we all know she doesn't know anything about him) And had Oliver ever given her any pep talks aside from when he was trying to encourage her to salvage her relationship with Tommy in season 1? 

Edited June 2, 2017 by lemotomato

[leopardprint]

46 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

LOL:

As for Oliver, he and Laurel have always seemed to understand each other, and support each other, on a much more equal level. Arrow should stop teasing ‘shippers, and stop torturing everyone else, by ending Olicity once and for all.

Citation needed. 

[tangerine95]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I don't think LL said anything supportive of Oliver until mid season 4. ("I know you in my bones" doesn't count, since it's more about what she thinks he is, when we all know she doesn't know anything about him) And had Oliver ever given her any pep talks aside from when he was trying to encourage her to salvage her relationship with Tommy in season 1? 

I remember one from 4.18 when he seemed really,really eager and supportive of her leaving team arrow and just focusing on being the DA lol

[Chaser]

Dinah Drake is not the Black Canary because comics is the funniest argument to me.

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I don't think LL said anything supportive of Oliver until mid season 4. ("I know you in my bones" doesn't count, since it's more about what she thinks he is, when we all know she doesn't know anything about him) And had Oliver ever given her any pep talks aside from when he was trying to encourage her to salvage her relationship with Tommy in season 1? 

And her being supportive was because they needed to set up her death. LOL

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oliver and Laurel being equals and supporting each other is what GA/BC shippers wanted to see and the show never was. I guess they managed to convince themselves it happened? They started in season 1 making Laurel say Oliver couldn't be the Arrow because she thought he was a selfish idiot, in season 2 making her think the Arrow was a murderer..then there was Oliver that was oh so supportive of Laurel that offered her a drink when she was struggling with alcoholism, trying to stop her from joining the team, telling her she wasn't of any help..LOL

Oh and someone should probably inform them that they are shippers.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

LOL:

Quote

As for Oliver, he and Laurel have always seemed to understand each other, and support each other, on a much more equal level. Arrow should stop teasing ‘shippers, and stop torturing everyone else, by ending Olicity once and for all.

So supportive! Much understanding!

It's interesting to compare how Oliver criticizes/confronts Laurel's behavior/choices vs how he does it with Felicity, Thea, Diggle-- well, everyone else, really. Very different approaches.

[NumberCruncher]

*sees an endless array of GIFs of Oliver and Felicity in various states of undress, acting like they want to consume each other all over the interwebz*  

^^yep, pure, chaste sibling action there.

Edited June 2, 2017 by NumberCruncher

[lemotomato]

13 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

*sees an endless array of GIFs of Oliver and Felicity in various states of undress, acting like they want to consume each other all over the interwebz*  

^^yep, pure, chaste sibling action there.

What are you talking about?

This

is

totally

how

siblings

look

at

each

other

[catrox14]

40 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So supportive! Much understanding!

It's interesting to compare how Oliver criticizes/confronts Laurel's behavior/choices vs how he does it with Felicity, Thea, Diggle-- well, everyone else, really. Very different approaches.

You know they'll spin this as 'Oliver is giving Laurel tough love because he LUUUVVVS HER SO MUCH" but Oliver's permanent NOPE face, and looking like he wanted to put a rusty spork in her eyes and his, and that her very presence  makes his skin crawl...but sure...totes mcgotes meant to be...

[Delphi]

51 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

*sees an endless array of GIFs of Oliver and Felicity in various states of undress, acting like they want to consume each other all over the interwebz*  

^^yep, pure, chaste sibling action there.

Awh,  such an affectionate brother sister relationship. 

[lemotomato]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

You know they'll spin this as 'Oliver is giving Laurel tough love because he LUUUVVVS HER SO MUCH" but Oliver's permanent NOPE face, and looking like he wanted to put a rusty spork in her eyes and his, and that her very presence  makes his skin crawl...but sure...totes mcgotes meant to be...

Which is funny, because based on Oliver's attempts at intervention with everyone else he loves (Thea at her most bratty in season 1, Felicity when she went rogue with Helix) or even kinda cares about (Helena, Ray!), he's not a "tough love" kind of guy. Barry Allen in 308 and the new recruits in 502 being the exceptions. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by lemotomato

[tangerine95]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Which is funny, because based on Oliver's attempts at intervention with everyone else he loves (Thea at her most bratty in season 1, Felicity when she went rogue with Helix) or even kinda cares about, he's not a "tough love" kind of guy. Barry Allen in 308 and the new recruits in 502 being the exceptions. 

Yeah imo that kind of attitude seems to be reserved for people he would rather not be around but doesn't actually want to see them hurt either.

[bijoux]

So what, we're using Flowers in the Attick as a model of sibling behavior here or what?

[NumberCruncher]

40 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Awh,  such an affectionate brother sister relationship. 

I still don't know how Emily's grinding pelvis ended up getting past the censors.  Stephen doesn't do much better with the ass-stroking either.  I don't think they were trying to portray a brother-sister thing here unless they think people have an incest fetish.

[apinknightmare]

48 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Awh,  such an affectionate brother sister relationship. 

Great shot for the family holiday cards!

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And why do the people who put together these lists ignore that it's a fact that Oliver's happier with Felicity than he has been with anyone else?  Do they not want Oliver happy? 

Nope. Happiness is not important when compared to comics canon.

1 hour ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Oh and someone should probably inform them that they are shippers.

I don't think you can unless you sign up for their site.  It keeps them from being tainted by reality.

[Midnight Lullaby]

10 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

I still don't know how Emily's grinding pelvis ended up getting past the censors.  Stephen doesn't do much better with the ass-stroking either.  I don't think they were trying to portray a brother-sister thing here unless they think people have an incest fetish.

Those fans might have watched too much Game of Thrones..

Edited June 2, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[statsgirl]

Sorry, accidental double post (spotty internet)

At least CBR is an endless source of amusement during the hiatus.  One thing they seemed to have figured out -- Olicity gets the clicks more than anything else.

Edited June 2, 2017 by statsgirl

[LeighAn]

Oh the agenda driven click bait articles are vastly amusing haha.

[Mellowyellow]

Those gifs with Laurel are priceless. Oliver’s stank face with her has always stood out for me but I didn't realise he was that harsh with her. Bahahahaha like lemotomato says he was nicer to Ray!!!!!!!

That's really hilarious especially compared to 519 when he freaked out and needed to drink because his Felicity dared to run in front of a gun he was holding. I've always loved that scene so much. Wasn't an Olicity scene but to see Oliver Queen so stressed and needing a drink because she blocked his gun was all kinds of adorable.

They must be raging after 5B because I feel like the show really doubled down on Oliver and Felicity being equal and supporting each other in 5B. The whole her wanting to take his burden (519), her getting him back in costume (521 "Felicity has a way with words") and the totally married conversation about discussing Deathstroke later in 523. They've always had a supportive relationship but I feel like 5B ramped it up a few more notches and really hammered it home. 

It is essentially what I'm guessing the comic f##kboys wanted Oliver and Laurel to have. 

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

It is essentially what I'm guessing the comic f##kboys wanted Oliver and Laurel to have.

I can kind of see why they're upset.  They feel that the Felicity character came out of nowhere and stole the main romance out from under Laurel, the canon character.  But fuck those guys.  The large, large majority of people who watch this have probably never even glanced at a Green Arrow comic book.

I remember The West Wing starting with Moira Kelly as Mandy Hampton, the intended foil/love interest for Bradley Whitford's Josh Lyman.  Whitford ended up having much more chemistry with Janel Moloney's Donna Moss.  At the start of the second season Kelly was gone without a trace.  There's not the slightest mention of her character after the first season.  Not even a throwaway "I hear Mandy's doing pretty well as Senator Whathisface's chief of staff."  Just nothing.  It was funny and a little spooky all at the same time.

[Starfish35]

And that's what should have happened to Laurel, if she had been anyone else.  Failed characters get written out in the first season all the time.  But noooooo, not Laurel.  That's what will never cease to annoy me.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

I get that some (CBR and like) are upset they didn't get their vision but after five seasons I just want to say grow up and get over it.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Chaser

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

I get that some (CBR and like) are upset they didn't get their vision but after five seasons I just want to say grow up and get over it.

Well it only seems to be recently that some of them actually realised that LL doesn't (didn't) automatically get Oliver when she officially became BC, that was when the meltdown happened (end of S3).