Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[Guest]

That's one of the two seasons I haven't seen.  I'll be sure to not watch it.  

[NutMeg]

You know, I think social is key in Survivor. It can take the form of a Sandra, who knows whatever there is to know about people, or the form of Rob, Parvati or Kim (and originsl JT), who build a wonderful rapport with people and get to know all about them, at the risk of being hated on post game when all this wonderful attention doesn't outlive the season (I will always think this is why Candice and Amanda turned so sour against Parvati).

 

Was there ever a winner that was socially awward? Apart from Cochran, who hid his awkwardeness behind 1) his returnee  status in a FvF seasin, 2) not being threatening, 3) Dawn.    

[ProfCrash]

I am not sure I would say that Richard was a social star but his win is always going to be different because it was the first.

[Guest]

I wouldn't even call Cochran awkward.  I think Survivor likes to put any male that isn't buff, athletic or super hot, and is smart, educated and wears glasses into their 'socially inept' box.  I feel like a lot of 'quieter, smarter' guys (and women) have won, and some of them have been pretty hot, too (Yul, for one).  I don't think anyone can win without a decent social game, or at least a likable personality.  

 

Has anyone dumb won?  I don't think Jud was dumb, he just pretended to be.  I didn't see Brian or Danni's seasons, but of the others I wouldn't call them dumb.  Amber was possibly the winner we saw with the least real smarts shown?

[Bryce Smith]

Winston9-DT3, on 30 Oct 2015 - 4:39 PM, said:Winston9-DT3, on 30 Oct 2015 - 5:39 PM, said:

Has anyone dumb won?  I don't think Jud was dumb, he just pretended to be.  I didn't see Brian or Danni's seasons, but of the others I wouldn't call them dumb.  Amber was possibly the winner we saw with the least real smarts shown?

Jenna from Amazon was edited as kind of dumb.  But what stops her from actually being thought of as such by several fans is her risky play at F6, when she gave her immunity to Heidi just in case Rob was thinking of voting her out instead of Christy.  (And I believe that Rob confirmed that he was indeed going to do that.)

Edited November 2, 2015 by Bryce Smith

[wonald]

I wouldn't even call Cochran awkward.  I think Survivor likes to put any male that isn't buff, athletic or super hot, and is smart, educated and wears glasses into their 'socially inept' box.  I feel like a lot of 'quieter, smarter' guys (and women) have won, and some of them have been pretty hot, too (Yul, for one).  I don't think anyone can win without a decent social game, or at least a likable personality.

 

 

 

Sophie Clarke is arguable.

 

Also, considering how Cockran is in real life yrs after his win, yeah, I would say he is awkward.

 

 

Has anyone dumb won?  I don't think Jud was dumb, he just pretended to be.

 

I guess it depend on ur definition of dumb. Jud ran thru his prize money in a short time. I would call that real dumb. YMMV.

Also, Jud said that he exagerrated his dumb blonde act. Well, you can't exagerrate what is not there.

[Bryce Smith]

NutMeg, on 19 Oct 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:NutMeg, on 19 Oct 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

Has anyone watched Total Drama/The Ridonculous Race? while it's based on TAR rather than Survivor this time, there is a team that is very much Missy and Baylor (the daughter is even called Taylor!), even to the point that another dad thinks Missy, sorry, Kelly, is too soft on Baylor/Taylor. My son, who I got onto Survivor, got me on Total Drama, and it's an amazing pastiche! (Don't give me any spoilers if you watch it too, I'm only down to episode 9 and this one I'm not going to binge watch but will wait until my son's school schedule allows us to go forward together).  

Kelly also took it just as badly when the dad, Dwayne, called out her softness on Taylor as Missy did when Keith called out her softness on Baylor.

 

I'd advise you not to have any sharp objects close to you when you get to the ending, @NutMeg.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Bryce Smith

[NutMeg]

Duly noted :-)

[ljenkins782]

Has anyone dumb won?  I don't think Jud was dumb, he just pretended to be.  I didn't see Brian or Danni's seasons, but of the others I wouldn't call them dumb.  Amber was possibly the winner we saw with the least real smarts shown?

I don't think Amber was dumb at all, quiet doesn't equal stupid. I can't think of any examples that would point to her being less than smart.

 

Has anyone dumb won?  I don't think Jud was dumb, he just pretended to be.

 

I don't think he acted quite as much as he gets credit for (FWIW, having just seen that season and reunion recently, I don't even think HE was saying it was all an act, just that he was playing up that side a bit.) 

 

I saw him as not likely to have much in the way of book smarts, but a decent ability to read a room (something some of the extremely book smart players have not excelled at) and that in a way, it worked in his favor that he was a bit airheaded because he played a more relaxed game than he otherwise might have. 

 

Jenna from Amazon was edited as kind of dumb.  But what stops her from actually being thought of as such by several players is her risky play at F6, when she gave her immunity to Heidi just in case Rob was thinking of voting her out instead of Christy.  (And I believe that Rob confirmed that he was indeed going to do that.)

 

I agree that was good gameplay, but if the question is whether someone is kinda dumb in general, I would say Jenna (and Jud) fall closest to that line out of all past winners. Like, if you were playing Who Wants to be a Millionaire and you had to choose ONLY from former Survivor winners...Jud and Jenna would be my absolute last choices. 

[Guest]

I don't think Amber was dumb, either.  I just feel like based on my memory, her win felt less like she won based on her own smarts than anyone else's win.  It kind of felt like a team effort, with a master player on her team.  

 

I had thought Jud revealed at the reunion that he was quite book smart (by high GPA or being in honors courses or something?) but now the things I'm reading about him, he doesn't sound so smart-- book or street.  

[Oholibamah]

I agree that was good gameplay, but if the question is whether someone is kinda dumb in general, I would say Jenna (and Jud) fall closest to that line out of all past winners. Like, if you were playing Who Wants to be a Millionaire and you had to choose ONLY from former Survivor winners...Jud and Jenna would be my absolute last choices. 

 

IIRC, Jenna is technically book-smart but was an immature 21-year-old in the Amazon and thus didn't come across that way. Going by the "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" metric, my first draft would be Yul, Denise, Bob, Sophie, and Earl. My last choices would be Tina, Chris, Vecepia, JT, and Fabio. The rest can go somewhere in the middle, but Amber and Jenna would probably be upper-middle tier.

[Bryce Smith]

NutMeg, on 31 Oct 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

Duly noted :-)

Neat!  Also, there's a nice forum for it, too: http://forums.previously.tv/forum/2044-total-drama-presents-the-ridonculous-race/.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Bryce Smith

[princelina]

Amber was possibly the winner we saw with the least real smarts shown?

 

Thank you thank you!! Finally someone besides me says it!!

 

I have seen all Survivor seasons and episodes and at this point I have trouble remembering every person who shows up.  But on the first All Star season of Survivor I was very excited, and eager to see each and every person and then there was . . . Amber?  What did she do to be an "All Star"?  I asked all of my friends who watched the show and - no one knew!  And at that time I had disliked BRob on his first appearance (although I understood WHY he was an "All Star") and didn't like him that much more at the end but certainly felt that he deserved the win more than the non-entity that he dragged to the end (which is not a criticism I generally level at "under-the-radar" type players) - but for this girl - seriously, there is nothing to her!

 

The next time I saw them the were on TAR, which is where my appreciation for BRob began, when he always found an English speaker who was willing to be their guide ( a clever strategy) and Amber just had nothing to say besides "What should we do?", smiling and doing as told, and once again I thought, "Here's why I was shocked this chick was an 'All Star' - nothing there!  Nothing!

 

Around that time some cable channel started rerunning original Survivor episodes each weeknight, so it wasn't long until Season 1 had ended and Season 2 (Amber's season) began.  I watched her with more interest this time, wondering what I had missed to get this chick so far.  And guess what?  Jeri was her girl that season - she had glommed onto her and when they were headed to TC she ran up to Jeri saying, "What are we doing?"  and that was pretty much it.  No different from her relationship with BR in any show except for that Jeri wasn't in love with her. 

 

And I don't know if this makes her stupid, but she is more than just "quiet" - she is ultra-passive, no ideas, no involvement, no assertion, no anything but whatever the person she attached herself to wants to do.  How she was called to All Stars I'll never know, but will assume they went through a list who said NO and she was the bottom of the barrel. But IMO she did absolutely nothing to win Survivor, and IMO is the least "deserving" winner of them all.  And I enjoy different POVs about what is "deserving", but in her case she doesn't meet ANY of the criteria - if she hadn't been inexplicably invited to All Stars she would be one of the most unmemorable Survivors of all.  

[Oholibamah]

Thank you thank you!! Finally someone besides me says it!!

I have seen all Survivor seasons and episodes and at this point I have trouble remembering every person who shows up. But on the first All Star season of Survivor I was very excited, and eager to see each and every person and then there was . . . Amber? What did she do to be an "All Star"? I asked all of my friends who watched the show and - no one knew! And at that time I had disliked BRob on his first appearance (although I understood WHY he was an "All Star") and didn't like him that much more at the end but certainly felt that he deserved the win more than the non-entity that he dragged to the end (which is not a criticism I generally level at "under-the-radar" type players) - but for this girl - seriously, there is nothing to her!

The next time I saw them the were on TAR, which is where my appreciation for BRob began, when he always found an English speaker who was willing to be their guide ( a clever strategy) and Amber just had nothing to say besides "What should we do?", smiling and doing as told, and once again I thought, "Here's why I was shocked this chick was an 'All Star' - nothing there! Nothing!

Around that time some cable channel started rerunning original Survivor episodes each weeknight, so it wasn't long until Season 1 had ended and Season 2 (Amber's season) began. I watched her with more interest this time, wondering what I had missed to get this chick so far. And guess what? Jeri was her girl that season - she had glommed onto her and when they were headed to TC she ran up to Jeri saying, "What are we doing?" and that was pretty much it. No different from her relationship with BR in any show except for that Jeri wasn't in love with her.

And I don't know if this makes her stupid, but she is more than just "quiet" - she is ultra-passive, no ideas, no involvement, no assertion, no anything but whatever the person she attached herself to wants to do. How she was called to All Stars I'll never know, but will assume they went through a list who said NO and she was the bottom of the barrel. But IMO she did absolutely nothing to win Survivor, and IMO is the least "deserving" winner of them all. And I enjoy different POVs about what is "deserving", but in her case she doesn't meet ANY of the criteria - if she hadn't been inexplicably invited to All Stars she would be one of the most unmemorable Survivors of all.

I love Amber, but agree that her personality isn't the most telegenic.

Why was she on Allstars? Because Elisabeth and Colleen declined, and Amber filled the same character slot.

[Oscirus]

Was there ever a winner that was socially awward? Apart from Cochran, who hid his awkwardeness behind 1) his returnee  status in a FvF seasin, 2) not being threatening, 3) Dawn.

 

By the end that dude was so disliked that he barely beat an apparently blatantly racist Clay.  Other then that the closest to winning was Matthew.

 

Has anyone dumb won?  I don't think Jud was dumb, he just pretended to be.

 

 

While probably not dumb, Ethan did put on a clinic in Africa on how to win despite repeatedly doing insanely dumb stuff.

[phlebas]

Was there ever a winner that was socially awward? Apart from Cochran, who hid his awkwardeness behind 1) his returnee  status in a FvF seasin, 2) not being threatening, 3) Dawn.    

Looking over the list of winners, I can't find anyone else.  But man, there are some close calls. (Both with the "dumb" thing and the "socially awkward" thing.)  There but for the grace of Sophie goes Sole Survivor Coach Wade, for example.

[KimberStormer]

Since it came up in the episoe thread, can someone remind me when on earth Sandra ever actually played a no-alliance, free agent, "as long as it's not me" game?  I know this is her big reputation.  But when did she actually do it?  In HvV she stuck with her alliance (Rob and Courtney) till they were gone, then stuck with the villains (specifically Parvati) till the end.  She thought about making a move to get rid of Russell, but that had nothing to do with "going where the numbers are", she just hated him.  (She didn't do it because that was where the numbers were, but I don't know if that counts.)  In Pearl Islands I remember her being loyal to Rupert until he was gone.  Is that when she did her "anyone but me" thing? 

[choclatechip45]

I love Amber, but agree that her personality isn't the most telegenic.

Why was she on Allstars? Because Elisabeth and Colleen declined, and Amber filled the same character slot.

Lynne Spillman was asked on Survivor oz and she said casting had kept in touch with Amber and she grew up a lot between Australia and All Stars and thought it would be an interesting story since she was 22 the first time she played. Normally I would call bull, but clearly casting is closer the first couple of casts since they offered Kelly Goldsmith a job in casting since she quit her job to go on all stars so they felt bad.

[ProfCrash]

Sandra was very loyal to her alliances but would work with people outside her alliance to vote out people not in her alliance.

[Miss Scarlet]

I've always found it interested how really early on in the game, like as early as Day 2, people will start talking about needing to vote out certain players because otherwise they could win the game. You can definitely get hints about who does or doesn't have potential to win the game, but I usually end up wondering "if that person were to get to the end, doesn't it matter how they got there?" Even with someone really likable or who has a good "story", what if they get to the end by betraying a ton of people?

 

I've found it interesting to think about this, because I guess it really does indicate how social the game is and how secondary the strategic moves people make can be. It's also interesting because it points to the inherent sexism in the game too, since a lot of the early "threats" are strong men who are not necessarily good strategic (or even social) players and hardly ever any female players. 

[KimberStormer]

The first one of those I can remember was when Cirie somehow convinced her completely doomed tribe of "older women" (thanks Probst) to vote out the strong woman who was mourning her son, because she'd be a final tribal threat...in the first freaking episode.  Of all the magic votes that Cirie pulled off, that is the one I still cannot wrap my head around.  My brain rejects it as impossible.

 

The funny thing is, if the TWOP forums still existed, you could go back and see how much people hated Cirie for it, and for being afraid of leaves etc.  Like Courtney, she was despised her first episode, but ended up beloved.  (Parvati had a real reputation roller-coaster ride: people liked her early in Cooks, started disliking her when she was part of Raro and flirting with the meatheads there, turned to eye-black rage-hate when she wanted to throw up in Penner's face, were disgusted by her being back for Micronesia, slowly won back approx 50% of the people over the course of that season, and after the merge episode of HvV was pretty universally acclaimed.  Of course there are still plenty of exceptions, but, like, even Miss Alli couldn't keep up her bullshit Parv-hate after that.)

[Trick Question]

I've always found it interested how really early on in the game, like as early as Day 2, people will start talking about needing to vote out certain players because otherwise they could win the game. You can definitely get hints about who does or doesn't have potential to win the game, but I usually end up wondering "if that person were to get to the end, doesn't it matter how they got there?" Even with someone really likable or who has a good "story", what if they get to the end by betraying a ton of people?

Such "we need to vote this person out, the jury will love them" discussions are always interesting since these players ARE the jury.  It's not like the jury is some abstract group of strangers.  In an alliance of, say, five people, what is essentially being said here is "this person is so cool and likable that if I happen to be on the jury, I'd definitely vote for them over any two of you."

 

The biggest threat in this game is, indeed, that cool likable person with so much innate charisma that "how they played the game" is almost really kind of secondary.  It's human nature --- you're going to, on some level, always vote for the person you like the most.  (Stephen found this out the hard way in Tocantins.)  Along this same line, if this Cool Likable Person is the one doing the backstabbing, then suddenly it's perceived as just 'playing the game' and not backstabbing at all.

 

The problem is that within a 42-minute show every week, it's hard to get this idea across.  It's hard to show a person just being generally nice and cool every week, whereas stuff like winning challenges and finding idols and making flashy tribal council moves is more overt and built up by Probst and the producers as what being a true Survivor badass is all about.  By this metric, someone like Matt von Ertfelda should've easily won the Amazon season, but instead it was Jenna winning in a walk since at the end of the day, the jury just liked her and thought Matt was a weirdo.  While I love the Amazon season, I fully admit that it wasn't particularly well-edited since they sacrificed the actual narrative of Jenna's victory to edit her as a generic mean girl instead, which is why her win shocked so many people. 

 

The only way to win this game if you're kind of a dick is to get to the final two/three with people who are hated even more (i.e. Brian and Clay in S5) or to get there with people perceived as non-entities (Tony and Woo in S28, though apparently the editing of that season hid how Woo was disliked by a lot of his tribe).  This, in my opinion, was Russell's biggest failing as a Survivor player --- you CAN win by playing with zero social game, as long as you get to the end with the right people.  Why he thought Natalie and Sandra were the right people is beyond me.

[pennben]

The first one of those I can remember was when Cirie somehow convinced her completely doomed tribe of "older women" (thanks Probst) to vote out the strong woman who was mourning her son, because she'd be a final tribal threat...in the first freaking episode.  Of all the magic votes that Cirie pulled off, that is the one I still cannot wrap my head around.  My brain rejects it as impossible. The funny thing is, if the TWOP forums still existed, you could go back and see how much people hated Cirie for it, and for being afraid of leaves etc.

 

Oh, wow, I had forgotten about Cirie's first vote, it was down to her and the other woman and she won out.  I loved Cirie being afraid of leaves.  I loved her talking about 'getting up off the couch'. I loved her catching her first fish on Shane's birthday and dragging it flopping behind her (and her squeaking a bit here and there) all the way back to camp because no way in hell was she touching it. I loved her spending time with her husband when he stayed overnight at camp and it looked like he was more freaked out than she had ever been!!  I could relate to all of that and thought it was fantastic that she was cast.

 

P.S  Aren't you supposed to be writing a novel this month??  Hope all is going well!

Edited November 18, 2015 by pennben

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, wow, I had forgotten about Cirie's first vote, it was down to her and the other woman and she won out.  I loved Cirie being afraid of leaves.  I loved her talking about 'getting up off the couch'. I loved her catching her first fish on Shane's birthday and dragging it flopping behind her (and her squeaking a bit here and there) all the way back to camp because no way in hell was she touching it. I loved her spending time with her husband when he stayed overnight at camp and it looked like he was more freaked out than she had ever been!!  I could relate to all of that and thought it was fantastic that she was cast.

 

Same! I loved Cirie so much in her first season. It was each subsequent season where I started to really dislike her. She bought into the hype about herself too much for my taste.

 

Why he thought Natalie and Sandra were the right people is beyond me.

 

Because Russell is an idiot.

Edited November 18, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Ms Blue Jay]

One of my favourite things about Survivor: Panama is that after Cirie's husband leaves, you can see Aras wearing a gigantic, baby blue Polo t-shirt.  Which was Cirie's husband's, that he left for him.  Did anyone else notice that?  I find it hysterical.  I think Cirie made her husband leave the island in a wifebeater.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hera]

I've always found it interested how really early on in the game, like as early as Day 2, people will start talking about needing to vote out certain players because otherwise they could win the game. You can definitely get hints about who does or doesn't have potential to win the game, but I usually end up wondering "if that person were to get to the end, doesn't it matter how they got there?" Even with someone really likable or who has a good "story", what if they get to the end by betraying a ton of people?

A particularly good example of this was in Nicaragua with Kelly Bruno. On Day 1, all of her tribemates looked at her, saw her prosthetic leg and basically said, "We all need to get her out right away because the jury will vote for her to win out of sympathy," never mind that she could have been a total asshole (we'll never know, since she was on a season with NaOnka, whose assholery—if it could take a physical form—would block out the sun), never mind that she most likely didn't want or need more sympathy than anyone else out there, and never mind that the fact that they all thought that suggests that the jury would probably not be overly sympathetic to her just because of her missing leg.

 

I maintain that the time to start worrying about jury threats is when you have a good idea of who might be on the jury—once you're about six votes in. In the early part of the game, you need to work on not getting voted out, finding people you can trust, and not alienating anyone in opposing alliances too badly.

[Oscirus]

I loved that Cirie somehow convinced Aras that it was in his best interest to bring her to the finals. I mean yea, she did all the heavy lifting strategy wise in that alliance but it would have been a woo size blunder bringing her to the finals.

 

My other favorite moment was her booting Ozzy for being such an arrogant jackass as to think that he could openly hold a hii and that nobody would dare plot against him.

[Oholibamah]

A particularly good example of this was in Nicaragua with Kelly Bruno. On Day 1, all of her tribemates looked at her, saw her prosthetic leg and basically said, "We all need to get her out right away because the jury will vote for her to win out of sympathy," never mind that she could have been a total asshole (we'll never know, since she was on a season with NaOnka, whose assholery—if it could take a physical form—would block out the sun), never mind that she most likely didn't want or need more sympathy than anyone else out there, and never mind that the fact that they all thought that suggests that the jury would probably not be overly sympathetic to her just because of her missing leg.

I maintain that the time to start worrying about jury threats is when you have a good idea of who might be on the jury—once you're about six votes in. In the early part of the game, you need to work on not getting voted out, finding people you can trust, and not alienating anyone in opposing alliances too badly.

Ah, but throwing others under the bus IS how people prevent getting voted out in the early part of the game. The first vote is always a crapshoot where players scramble to find a scapegoat. When nobody serves themselves up (annoying, tank a challenge, playing too hard, being a former winner), you can create a target by saying they're "too sympathetic".

[KimberStormer]

P.S  Aren't you supposed to be writing a novel this month??  Hope all is going well!

 

It turns out arguing about Survivor online is a reeeeeeally good way to procrastinate (;＾◇＾;)ゝ

[Hera]

Ah, but throwing others under the bus IS how people prevent getting voted out in the early part of the game. The first vote is always a crapshoot where players scramble to find a scapegoat. When nobody serves themselves up (annoying, tank a challenge, playing too hard, being a former winner), you can create a target by saying they're "too sympathetic".

True, but at the same time, I don't think "Vote X out, s/he's a jury threat," is a very good pitch on Day 3. I think a better way to go is to try to convince someone that someone else is out to get them. Extra points if you can drive a wedge between two people who might have otherwise formed an alliance and left you out in the cold.

[cherrypj]

I finally finished Palau. And I must change my earlier opinion of Tom Westman. I was really pulling for Ian there.

 

I'm consoled by the thought that Ian perhaps stepped down because he knew it would all come out when the show aired. I'm further consoled by the fact that Ian is doing well for himself: CEO of Thread International.

 

That last IC was riveting.

[cherrypj]

The subtopic in Kelly Wigglesworth thread is interesting: old school players you would invite back. That thread seems to have limited it to seasons 7 and under, though, which I don't agree with.

 

I'd love to see Gregg & Ian from season 10 ... well, shit, I'm petering out already. There isn't anyone I'd bring back from season 9 (Amy and Eliza already got second invites; Chris is apparently off the face of the earth), and seasons 7 and under has been discussed already. (I'm sure this entire topic is tired.)

 

Off to season 11!

[ProfCrash]

I still think it would be interesting to see a returnee season with three tribes.

 

One tribe Season 1-10

One tribe 11-20

One Tribe 21-30

 

There are clearly some buff dudes from the first 10 seasons who could play to balance out the young guns. But I would think that they could adjust the first 2-4 challenges to make things more even. It would be interesting to see the differences in camps, social and strategic games. Hell, let the tribes stand until the merge.

[fishcakes]

I'd love to see Gregg & Ian from season 10 ... well, shit, I'm petering out already. There isn't anyone I'd bring back from season 9 (Amy and Eliza already got second invites; Chris is apparently off the face of the earth)

 

I'd like to see Gregg again too. He seemed like he had a good strategic sense but had the bad luck to be cast in Tom's juggernaut season.

 

Vanuatu is one of the worst seasons (and maybe the very worst until Nicaragua) but I'd like to see JP again because he was hot but he was also dumb in a hilarious way. His conversation with Bubba about how having kids would have saved him in the game (... or not) is one of my favorite Survivor things ever.

[cherrypj]

I'd like to see Gregg again too. He seemed like he had a good strategic sense but had the bad luck to be cast in Tom's juggernaut season.

 

It really felt like Gregg was the strategic mastermind, at least at first. Then Ian, not Tom, figured out that he and Tom had lost control of the game, so they got Gregg out first. Gregg, of course, made the mistake of taking Jenn and Katie on that boat reward.

 

Jenn Lyon died of breast cancer in 2010. I haven't seen HvV yet, but I gather there's a montage during the reunion special. I don't want the reunion specials either, though!

 

For me, the enduring image of season 10 is Ian jumping on Ibrehem's back when Koror caught Ulong in that insane beach run. 

[Skeeter22]

I'll always have some affection for Vanuatu, if only because Probst hated it and it's winner because his girlfriend at the time was blindsided and betrayed in the game. For a guy who gleefully endorsed Boston Rob and Russell's scorched earth style of play, Jeff sure doesn't like it when someone he cares about gets blindsided. I think if Probst ever played the game, he'd be an epically bitter juror.

[Vicky8675309]

who was/is Jeff's girlfriend? So he hooked up with a former Survivor contestant? I assume it was after the show aired.

[SnideAsides]

Julie. I believe he started dating her while the season was airing, which is part of why she and her alliance got an absurd amount of time at the reunion.

 

He also dated Jerri Manthey for a bit.

[Ms Blue Jay]

KimberStormer, I realized that how you hate when people dismiss Kim's win as being too easy "because her opponents were unworthy of her" (LOL) is your version of my feeling when people say production made the idols "too easy" for Russell/Tony/Jeremy to find, or even worse, when Russell was playing I heard accusations of production just handing him the idols!  That's my personal pet peeve.  If the idols were so easy to find then I think that different people would keep finding them!  But instead, it's the same damn hungry people who really want to find the fucking idols and want to win the damn game!  I'd love to see clips of Abi looking for the idol, for instance.  But I'm not shown that -- so what am I supposed to think?

 

Oh, and Ew at Jeff dating Jerri.  I don't even know who I'm Ew-ing at.  Ok, I'm Ew-ing at Jeff.  He should know better after Season 2.  I just remember hating, hating, hating her.  I felt neutral or even positive towards her during HvV.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Zuleikha]

I grew to love Jeri in HvV. I softened towards her a bit when I watched a bonus clip in Outback and realized Kel was fairly insufferable, but HvV made me realize Jeri is just like any of my Burner hippie artist friends. Plus, who can resist the great romance of the Black Widow and the Dragonslayer?

[loki567]

 

when people say production made the idols "too easy" for Russell/Tony/Jeremy to find, or even worse, when Russell was playing I heard accusations of production just handing him the idols!  That's my personal pet peeve.  If the idols were so easy to find then I think that different people would keep finding them!  But instead, it's the same damn hungry people who really want to find the fucking idols and want to win the damn game!

 

Russell's friend Boo said during an interview that Russell was tipped off by camera men where not to find the idols. Not in the sense they were giving him the idols or saying, "Here they are," but that Russell would follow the camera men's eyes where they were filming, and know where to look. After I heard that, it made me really suspicious if other players got similar tip-offs about HI. I always find it very suspicious that the idol seems to land in the hands of a strong player or an underdog target. You can argue that it's because those players are "hungrier," but a lot of different people in exit interviews have said they've spent hours out there searching for idols and it couldn't come up with anything. In the few instances a "weak" player has found an idol, it's almost completely by accident i.e. Ralph stumbling over an idol earmarked for Russell when he was searching for rocks. If Vytas was telling the truth, Wentworth found her clue to the idol in the first half-hour on the island in Cambodia. 

 

IMO, the producers have ways of influencing the show to where they have some sort of plausible deniability.  So maybe it's giving a player an idol in a way that they can honestly say they didn't give the player an idol. Or maybe's it merging at 13 so a producer's friend has a better shot with a larger tribe. Or maybe it's most of the final comps suddenly being puzzles when a favorite player is good at puzzles. 

Edited November 25, 2015 by loki567

[Mrs. P.]

Oh, and Ew at Jeff dating Jerri. I don't even know who I'm Ew-ing at. Ok, I'm Ew-ing at Jeff. He should know better after Season 2. I just remember hating, hating, hating her. I felt neutral or even positive towards her during HvV.

Jeff didn't date Jerri from Season 2 and HvV. He hooked up with Julie from Vanuatu. She was a remarkably beautiful woman who famously sunbathed on the beach with her bikini top untied.

[Guest]

Russell would follow the camera men's eyes where they were filming, and know where to look.

 

Why would the cameraman who is following/filming Russell also be filming an unfound idol, though?  If the show wants footage of an unfound idol they can get it without the players watching.  I'm not sure I've ever seen footage of an unfound idol, without the player in the shot about to find it.  

 

I don't even really think the show liked Russell finding the idols.  I think it was the opposite of good tv.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

"Remarkably" is really pushing it.  She's one of those castmates I never noticed being there.

[fishcakes]

Jeff didn't date Jerri from Season 2 and HvV. He hooked up with Julie from Vanuatu. She was a remarkably beautiful woman who famously sunbathed on the beach with her bikini top untied.

 

Julie didn't just untie her bikini top; she laid out completely nude. Ordinarily I wouldn't care about that, but in her case, it bugged because she was so clearly using it as a strategy to make the guys keep her around but denied she was doing that. Similarly there was a scene where Sarge was sitting on a log or something and she went and sat between his legs and rested the back of her head in his crotch. When she was asked about that in an interview, she got a little huffy and said it was all completely innocent and she thought it was "so interesting" that people have dirty minds. I mean, use your sex appeal if it works for you, but don't act like other people are reading in motives that aren't there. And the other reason her nude sunbathing bothered me was that it prompted Sarge to take all his clothes off and lie down next to her and there's not enough pixelation in the world for that mess.

 

I don't think Jeff ever dated Jerri, although people did speculate about that after the Outback season. He was also rumored to have dated Jesse from Africa and Jenna Morasca. He was very upfront that he and Julie were dating -- actually, he was Mr. TMI on that score, but never said anything about the other three so I assumed that the rumors were just that. Though if they are true, we know that Jeff has a type: dark-haired women whose names start with J. It's almost as good as dating himself.

 

Russell's friend Boo said during an interview that Russell was tipped off by camera men where not to find the idols. Not in the sense they were giving him the idols or saying, "Here they are," but that Russell would follow the camera men's eyes where they were filming, and know where to look.

 

I don't know, but this sounds like more of Russell's self-aggrandizing. "They can't never hide an idol from me. I'm too smart! I FOLLOW THEY'S EYES!" Other players have said that you can't tell what the camera is focusing on. The camera people aren't very close to them and have the ability to zoom in and out to particular areas without the players knowing it. So the camera would be however many yards back and the player would know that they're being filmed, but they don't know when the camera person has zoomed in to a branch up high or a hidden hole in a wall or whatever. Which makes sense because it's not like they're filming the show with their phones; the camera equipment is pretty sophisticated.

[Ms Blue Jay]

fishcakes, your post had me laughing from beginning to end.  My word.  And your imitation of Russell made me miss him.

[Zuleikha]

If Vytas was telling the truth, Wentworth found her clue to the idol in the first half-hour on the island in Cambodia.

Other than Wentworth being very lucky, what's the significance of that supposed to be?

[Guest]

I think it's supposed to suggest production led her to it.  

[KimberStormer]

A lot of times these things seem sort of circular to me.  I have no idea why Kelley Wentworth would be such a priority that they'd hand her an idol in 30 minutes and not, like, Spencer.  But it often goes something like:

 

"They obviously gave her an idol: she's a producer's favorite!"

"Why do you think she's a producer's favorite?"

"Because they gave her the idol!"

 

In Russell's case, I haven't seen Samoa, but it often seems that people think production gave him idols because they loved him, and they loved him because he found so many idols...

[cherrypj]

Other than Wentworth being very lucky, what's the significance of that supposed to be?

 

loki567 is calling Wentworth a "weak" player. The implication is that Wentworth stumbled over the idol.

 

Kimberstormer articulates why loki567's comment didn't work for me: people don't get idols because the producers love them. The producers love them because they get idols.

Edited November 25, 2015 by cherrypj