S04.E09: The Watchers On The Wall 2014.06.08

[Jaded Sapphire]

For the record, the Ygritte death scene was partially in slo-mo. The battle was wrapping up so I'll give them (director/editor) the benefit of the doubt on that scene. Having said that, I agree with everyone else who thought 'good riddance' to her, she deserved it, and especially from that kid too.

About to rewatch now (if HBO-GO cooperates) but also wanted to concur with everyone who saw that the giant couldn't actually manipulate the gate until the mammoth loosened it. It couldn't have just walked up and lifted it beforehand.

I'm gonna look for the wildling being squished by the mammoth this time around. I was too busy giggling at the childlike exasperation of the giant who chased it, trying to get it to come back.

[LuciaMia]

"And WTF was that elephant and giants, hadn’t heard of them before?  Was this LOTR??

************

Ha, I know. Kept expecting for someone to start talking about 'oliphaunts.'

 

Missed the first 20 minutes and was surprised on re-viewing that the entire episode was taken up with the battle.  No follow up at all to what happened last week? 

Anyways, I teared up a little as well at the scene at the gate, where the six were reciting their oaths. Good stuff.   

Do all giants have faces like misshapen potatoes?

 

In Ygritte's death scene, she mentioned their love cave but then something less distinct.  Did she get one last time to say 'You know nothing, Jon Snow." ?

 

Very glad Snow survived. I'm always very nervous when dogs, even giant wolf ones, are put into harms way for dramatic reasons.

[RedHawk]

So essentially, despite everything, despite Jon Snow's apparent betrayal, in the end Ygritte still loved him and that's why she hesitated at the end.

 

 

When Jon saw her, even with her bow drawn on him, he smiled like the sun coming out. Even after she had filled him full of arrows at their parting, he smiled at her.

 

She wouldn't have let that arrow go.

[KurlyGrl]

OK.  Someone’s gonna have to convince me this was a good episode.  Usually I have a lot to say.  Today, not so much.  How can an episode be chock full of action and drama, but fall completely flat?!?!?!?! 

 

 

A few highlights.  I liked the “love” scene with Maester Aemon and Sam.  I LOVED the scene where the 6 brothers were holding the inner gate and were reciting their vows as the giant was rambling down the tunnel.  I found it hilarious that Slynt went hiding like a little bitch.  The giant scythe swinging against the wall was pretty darn cool.  I liked how Sam yelled “open the FUCKING gate!!  Too funny.  And Jon was kick ass with his sword.  Why do I find sword fighting so sexy??  Is that strange??  But other than that??  Meh.  The season finale has so many lose ends to tie up that I don’t see how they can do it in an hour’s time.  Well, technically, they don’t have to tie up anything as the seasons will continue, but you know what I mean. 

 

 

I seem to be totally alone here, but I was sad to see Ygritte die.  I liked her.  She put on this tough front the whole time, but when it came down to it, this was the second time she was unable to kill Jon.  She still loved Jon and I am sure he loved her.  Of course it was never meant to be.  How he held her while the battle raged on was ridiculous, though. 

 

 

And wouldn’t it have been cool if they poured ice water down the wall and froze all the climbers in place. LOL!!

Oh, another thought.  Everyone is comparing this episode with LOTR.  Clearly there are lots of similarities.  But did anyone catch Ygritte’s skill with the bow??  She would put Legolas to shame.

[CatWarmer]

 

Everyone is comparing this episode with LOTR.  Clearly there are lots of similarities.

But in this case, we REALLY do not want an army of the dead (or undead) to swarm up and over everything.

[Timetoread]

I rolled my eyes that Jon & Ygritte got 5 uninterrupted minutes in the middle of a freakin' battle so that she could die in his arms. I was sure she would reveal she was pregnant to complete the romance novel scene. Good riddance.

 

 

Word to your mother, father, and great-granduncle by marriage!  My eyes rolled out my head and onto the floor - my dog is WARG typing this.  Sheesh!  I never got the "epicness" of the Jon and Ygritte supposed love.  They were two teenagers who snarked, flirted and ultimately boinked in a cave - nothing epic about it.  I therefore didn't buy into the dragged out angst over whether or not she would kill him.  I could have kissed the kid for pulling the trigger - although I was rooting for it to be Ghost would take out the "bitch" who distracted his daddy from finding him in the wild lands.

[Jaded Sapphire]

Since so many asked questions, a bit of a play by play:
The barrels have nothing in them and don't deter the giants. They do sort of watch as the giants get set up, but that's more so that Jon can tell if they'll be able to stop them. When he sees that they won't, he dispatches Grenn and they spend the rest of that time filling/loading barrels with oil. After the first drop is when a barrel explodes and they're dealing with the aftermath/regrouping before they continue the attack.

Ygritte and Jon get exactly 60 seconds of uninterrupted, non-slow-mo time together.

And because somebody asked, Grenn Team Six had no arrows to speak of.

 

 

I saw this episode compared to The Two Towers. And it indeed reminded me of a review about that movie: "In a trilogy there's a middle, and this looked like a lot of middle".

 

A lot of 'middle' indeed, I enjoyed it all the same.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Jaded Sapphire

[dragonsbite]

Did anyone else notice the parallelism between Jon's duel with the huge Thenn and the duel between the Viper and the Mountain? It's as if Show wanted us to fear for Jon's life after having seen Oberyn be killed unexpectedly last week. However, I was 100% certain that Jon would kill the Thenn, simply because it had to be the opposite of the previous episode. There was absolutely no tension in Jon's fight.

 

(Mind you, I've also skimmed the books, so I knew what was supposed to be the outcome of the battle. But Show has gone off script before.)

Edited June 9, 2014 by dragonsbite

[Drogo]

RIP Ygritte.  Really should have never left that cave. 

 

 

Apparently this episode cost over $8 million to create.  I'm going to say it was worth every penny. 

There was one tracking shot in particular toward the end which blew away any notion that these were mini-sets... absolutely stunning. 

 

I couldn't breathe when Slynt started his walk/jog of shame down Gilly/Sam's hallway.  I thought for sure he would kill them just to cover up his shameful secret.  

 

Slynt didn't exactly win my trust the last time I saw him in a room with an infant. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by Drogo

[annlaw78]

 

And wouldn’t it have been cool if they poured ice water down the wall and froze all the climbers in place. LOL!!

I was very disappointed with the techniques the Night Watch had to guard the Wall, given the centuries (I think) they've had to master the art.  The scythe and the barrels of oil were neat tricks, but you'd expect more -- yes, like pumping water down the wall, other means of dislodging climbers, and, you know, stopping the lumbering giant's casually strolling up to the gate and messing with it.  I guess I was expecting seeing some more clever anti-siege weapons. 

[Turtle]

The wildings have united and are fighting for their lives because the Whitewalkers are coming.

Thank you for this.  I like to think that I pay pretty close attention, but I guess I got too caught up in some of the other story lines - all through this episode, I kept wondering "Why in the hell does Mance care so much about Castle Black, and why now?"  I could not, for the life of me, figure out why all the windings were so intent on storming the castle.  And I'm still not sure I totally get it - do they want to hold it as a stronghold, after they've destroyed it?  Or do they just want to go through it, to get to the North and farther away from the Whitewalkers?  Clearly, I have not paid enough attention to this story line...

 

I can't stand Ygritte, never could, and I will not miss her at all.  

 

There are so many story lines up in the air that I am really disappointed that the season is almost over.  So much more I need to know about!!  

[terrymct]

I'm sort of surprised that Janos completely fell apart.  He was the head of the King's Guard, before Tyrion sent him to The Wall.  The King's Guard certain has had issues with a wee bit of back stabbing (literal and figurative), but they've always seemed to be actual fighters.   Janos has suspect loyalties, but there wasn't a hint before that he was an out and out coward.  

[Macbeth]

I believe Gilly might have threatened Janos with the mutton chop.  It looked like he was cowering in fear from Gilly as well.  That girl survived Craster and The Wilding rampage - she has a pretty good skill set.

 

I can never hear the The Watcher's vow again without hearing Sam's loophole. 

Well done Sam, I am a Watcher of the Wall, Esq.

 

I am going to miss Grenn.  I like Sam and Gilly - but given that Grenn was going to die - couldn't we have had one more moment with Edd and Grenn.  I shipped them.  I really did.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Macbeth

[Ronin Jackson]

I enjoyed the episode.  It didn't quite wash out the bad taste from the previous episode but it was nice to have an episode of wall to wall (no pun intended, honest!) action, and it was well done.  I didn't mind the Jon Snow-Ygritte scene either, you gotta allow for some artistic license when it comes to a death/end of relationship scene, and it lasted less than a minute.  It would have been more inappropriate IMO if they didn't stop for a moment to let that scene unfold and it got lost in all the action, even if that's what might have happened in a real life battle  (you know, a real life battle that had giants and mammoths and jumbo scythes and big albino wolves and barrel bombs and what not...)

[Mz Anthrope]

I wonder if Slynt   A- didn't have the courage to kill Gilly and/or B - thought everyone would be dead by the time this was all over and he didn't need to worry about who she'd tell.

[elzin]

 What an awesome weapon! It was like an enormous windshield wiper of death!

 

 

 

I loved this description and wanted to quote it so it didn't get lost in all the other posts.  The wildlings were kind of like mosquitos and moths trying to scale the wall.

[Irishmaple]

If anyone told me two seasons ago that Kit Harington would anchor the show as male lead I would have laughed rudely in their face.  I found him to be one of the weaker actors on the show.  He has grown on me though and last night I thought he did an excellent job, coming into his own as the only next-in-line leader of the Night's Watch.  I wouldn't vote Janos Slynt as rat catcher in chief so he's off the list.  Ser Allister Thorne showed real balls standing there, giving Jon permission to say "I told you so" and then going down to kick Wilding butt until he broke his leg or whatever happened; there was so much going on I started to lose track of people.

 

I was beyond ready for Ygitte to die and I'm glad that kid, Olly, got to avenge his parents.  He looked so proud of himself afterward, completely ignorant of the fact that he'd just broken Jon's heart.  I liked Sam going for the fine-print in the Night's Watch contract but I'd always assumed that was the case, given there was a brothel in Molestown that didn't seem to be hurting for business.  The recitation of the Oath at the gate was truly moving.  It is a great set of words and, when delivered with belief, just sets the moment like nothing else.

 

I like the North storyline because that was the one that pulled me in from the very first episode.  The Wall blew me away and any chance I get to marvel at it works for me.

[Drogo]

 

I'm sort of surprised that Janos completely fell apart.  He was the head of the King's Guard, before Tyrion sent him to The Wall.

 

Janos was the commander of the City Watch.  I imagine that putting him into a battle scenario like this one is the medieval equivalent of taking the Chief of Police from NY and dropping him into a Marine infantry unit in Afghanistan. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by Drogo

[Isazouzi]

Janos was the commander of the City Watch.  I imagine that putting him into a battle scenario like this one is the medieval equivalent of taking the Chief of Police from NY and dropping him into a Marine infantry unit in Afghanistan. 

 

With giants and mammoths. The dude was clearly in shock, he was still blabbering that giants didn't exist while watching the very real giants march on the Wall.

[terrymct]

Janos was the commander of the City Watch.  I imagine that putting him into a battle scenario like this one is the medieval equivalent of taking the Chief of Police from NY and dropping him into a Marine infantry unit in Afghanistan. 

 

Excellent point.  I got the two Kings Landing groups mixed up.   I still, however, think that an NYC cop wouldn't s$%t his pants like Janos seemed to do.

[CeeBeeGee]

What an awesome weapon! It was like an enormous windshield wiper of death!

 

 

Awesome comment!

[Drogo]

 

What an awesome weapon! It was like an enormous windshield wiper of death!

 

 

Gotta get one of these to keep in my trunk. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by Drogo

[MrsRafaelBarba]

LOL. That was the most ginormous meat cleaver in existence. Dude was going to defend his kitchen. He was a total BADASS and hot.

 

 

 

 

 

        He wasn't not here for any of the Wildings bullshit, in his kitchen.

 

        They learned that night.

Edited June 9, 2014 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Neurochick]

Finally, Jon Snow is interesting to me! He unleashed quite an impressive can of whoop-ass. Also, shout-out to Sam for getting that dude right in the forehead.

Hated that Ygritte's last words were "You know nothing, Jon Snow"...very soapy

 

I agree, normally I can't stand Jon Snow, but this was the first time he seemed interesting, and I wasn't focused on his hair. 

 

I was glad to see Ygritte bite it, whenever she would say, "Jon Snow" it always sounded like she was cursing him out.  I never quite warmed up to her being a basass though.  Arya Stark, yes, but to me Ygritte always looked like she was on her way to the mall.

[Drogo]

 

I was beyond ready for Ygitte to die and I'm glad that kid, Olly, got to avenge his parents.  He looked so proud of himself afterward, completely ignorant of the fact that he'd just broken Jon's heart.

 

One minute he's a blubbering mess who can't even operate the lift, the next minute he's Swagtastic William Tell with the thumbs-up to Jon Snow...?

 

Ollie was annoying me.  I'm glad they ate his parents. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

 

 

Ollie was annoying me.  I'm glad they ate his parents. 

 

        ROTFLMAO!

[Taget]

This is the first episode of the series I really did not like.  Some of that is unfair in that perhaps I really shouldn't be comparing this to the brilliant Battle of Blackwater episode.  Everything felt smaller, more forced, and hackneyed.  But to be more specific in what I liked and did not like.

 

1) This is something I have had a problem with all season.  The wildlings have been reduced to stock villains.  In the case of the Thenns.  Sub-human.  I'd compare them to the orcs in Lord of the Rings.  You are not supposed to even think about their side, just rejoice in them being slaughtered.  Lost is of course why they are attacking the wall.  Every human in an area the size of Canada is on the verge of being slaughtered by the zombie apocalypse.  And they are trying to get beyond an inhumanly tall wall guarded by people more organized and more technologically advanced than them to desperately have a chance for them as well as everyone they love including all their women children to survive.

 

The closest we have to the wildlings showing a personality, a humanity, an agenda besides just wanton cruelty and destruction is Ygritte justifying their raid by referencing past Night's Watch raids.

I expected better after Season 3.

 

Master Aemon knows better but comments only after Sam (who is the one who should know better) says that from everything he's read every bad thing he ever heard about the wildlings is true.

 

2) The body count seems way too high.  I'd love for someone to re-watch and actually count how many black brothers die in this episode.  I have a feeling it is more than 102 folks down.  There are some reinforcements from those who fled but there seemed like there was too much cannon fodder being wasted.

 

3) The climbers on the other side of the wall seemed foolish and wasteful.  I thought it was well explained in previous episodes why you want to find remoter parts of the wall to climb.  And you seem to have a better chance of actually killing the people on top if you have groups who climb a couple of miles in either direction and can actually walk to the enemy rather than who climb up and have stuff dropped on them.  Seemed like filler meant to justify the battle taking up the entire hour.

 

4) As did the giant.  And I would've actually rather learned more about giants than just see what is probably one of the few left of a rare hunted race presented as nothing more than a monster.  You may ask.  Do you want to see giants having a tea or something?  Not necessarily but what made the battle of blackwater great is you had two sides you were well acquainted with and who had everything on the line who desperately battled with and who you did not know who necessarily would win.  (Okay, we all figured the Lannisters would win but still...) In this we only had one side and that did not have to be the case.

5) The death of Ygritte makes me despair of ever seeing the Wildling side.  Since she and the captured Tormund are the two who actually presented the most personality.  Ygritte's long hesitation after she had the drop on Jon makes me think she could never actually go through with killing Jon.  Of course that moment was soon ended once the little brat took her out.  All because he's bitter about being born to two Thenn happymeals.

 

And if there is anything more annoying than one dimensional villains it is one dimensional heroes.  And Olly is just that.  His parents dying and that he knows how to use a crossbow are about his only personality points.  Even the Thenn's found him too boring and pointless to eat.  Which is a shame since his only purpose on the show was that scene. That type of forced cartoonish emotional manipulation (I'm going to eat your mommy and daddy!) is just not needed in a show like Game of Thrones.

And it's not like I am that happy about random orphan boy getting his revenge the episode after Oberyn is denied his Inigo Montoya moment.

6) I am hopeful and scared of Jon meeting Mance.  I am hoping again we can see the immediacy of what the Wildlings are facing and why there is actually two sides to this battle.  And not just heroes and the mobs one wastes in a video game.

 

7) Now to be more positive.  Loved Sir Aleister.  Particularly his explanation of leadership to Jon Snow.  Unlike Slynt there was fight underneath all his bluster.  I did like Slynt hiding with Gilly.

 

After the battle when Sam went to check on Gilly, I was sure she had dismembered Slynt for his cowardice and was holding his leg as weapon.

That would've rocked. Sam comes in to see Gilly munching on Slynt. He looks at her accusingly to which she explains, "I'm part Thenn you know." He shrugs and then asks, "How does Lord Slynt taste?" "Not bad actually, want a bite?" "I really shouldn't....."

8) I liked that they kept Gilly away. Having Sam "save" Gilly every ten minutes would've been a bit too much to take. She's a character I like but someone who should only be in the story in very small doses.

9) Every scene with Master Aemon is always great since he has so much to add about the back story.

10) I want Stannis and Melisandre at the wall like we were promised last season. That for me is what would've turned this episode from something pedestrian into something worth remembering. Adding some Melisandre crazy would've done wonders. Hope they're still packing their bags and getting ready to leave!

Edited June 9, 2014 by Taget

[Drogo]

Next episode, Ollie erects the following statue of himself at Castle Black...

 

[Mz Anthrope]

Removed

Edited June 10, 2014 by Mz Anthrope

[CletusMusashi]

I was also bothered by the idea that they didn't just have thousands of soldiers climbing the wall miles away. Even considered the notion that most of their forces were doing exactly that. But I eventually concluded that, if the goal is for every tribe to make it through, you can't spread them around like that. because, except for a a few very dedicated warriors like Tormund, almost anybody who makes it over the Wall is going to run south as fast as they can, leaving the rest of the army to fend for itself. Even if a few do attack Castle Black from behind, it's still a castle. A more modern army can climb over a wall, get near their target, and start building a trebauchet or something, but the only heavy artillery Wildlings know of is giant archers. They'd be trying a battering ram while boiling oil rolled down on them. Mance wants to keep the army together at least until pretty much everybody is through the Wall, so in actual fact I believe he has deliberately slowed down the number of Wildlings emigrating over the wall each day. Because the only way to get women, babies, toddlers, old people, giants, and those who just aren't good at climbing through that barrier is to stick together and beat their way in with a series of massive surges. Maybe eventually, after the Watch has pretty much exhausted its defensive supplies, they can spread out, climb over, and take the castle in order to let the others in. But first, they had to exhaust its supplies, without encouraging their strongest people to simply go AWOL and run south.

[Haiti D]

Wow. I don't think anyone has ever liked Ser Allister until last night. He was pulling out some Errol Flynn-like moves that were truly inspiring. His fight against Tormund was awesome. Plus his willingness to admit to Jon that he should have closed the tunnels was great.

Jon Snow was awesome as well. I've always liked the character but never really loved him as much as others, ie Robb, Tyrion, Sansa, Jamie, the Hound, etc. For a main character he's never been a favorite. This episode changes things a bit. I'm wary of getting too enamored because he may bite it next week. His evolution has been great and I think it's partly because what Sam said of him being a nothing, ie a bastard.

Sad to see Jon lose two of his besties/class mates. And now Edd is showing leadership abilities? What a world. RIP Pyp and Grenn. Glad Aemon is still alive.

[iMonrey]

I was prepared to be bored by this one because the Wall story in general just doesn't interest me, so I was pleasantly surprised by how engaging and exciting I found it. I guess part of the problem is that this show covers so many stories and such a myriad of secondary and tertiary characters, that when you're not as invested in certain stories (i.e. The Wall/Castle Black) you're not paying as much attention to those secondary characters so what happens to them doesn't have the same impact as when someone like Ned Stark or Lady Catelyn dies. Plus too much of Season 3 was spent on Jon Snow tramping around north of the Wall and it bored me. This episode really pulled the whole Wall storyline into focus. Something finally happened there. It wasn't just a bunch of talk, talk, talk, like it usually is.

 

 

I was very disappointed with the techniques the Night Watch had to guard the Wall, given the centuries (I think) they've had to master the art.

 

But when you think about it, have they ever really had to defend the Wall in the last few hundred years or so? We know that over the centuries people stopped believing in White Walkers etc. and the post to the Night's Watch became more or less a prison sentence rather than any meaningful appointment of duty. There are supposed to be other castles along the Wall that have all been abandoned over the years because the Night's Watch has grown so puny. So I think most of them have been going through the motions, making a show of being there to "defend" the realm, when nobody really believes it's in any danger anymore.

[CletusMusashi]

Good for Ed, but what I liked was seeing Sam display some assertiveness. His leveling-up has been so gradual and natural that it was rarely even noticeable, but it's been there. He's not just a fat albatross around his friends necks any more, because when they're pissing their pants in terror for the first time he's been there, done that, and can still generally think and operate coherantly. 

I'm going to assume that all the abandoned castles had their tunnels sealed up, Jon Snow style. Otherwise, the attack on Black is just insane.

Edited June 9, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[MrWhyt]

 

But when you think about it, have they ever really had to defend the Wall in the last few hundred years or so?

Yes defense of The Wall is 99% "is the Wall still giant and imposing? yes? Then good enough"

[CletusMusashi]

And the other 1 per cent is "Can I go over it where there aren't a bunch of people above me defending it?"

Actually, I'll bet the biggest part of defense usually consists of reminding everybody to shut the damn door. Probably leads to a few entertaining exchanges when somebody actually was born in a barn.

[Constantinople]

I often found Ygritte's constant mocking of "southern" ways due to the chip on her shoulder rather tiresome, so her death didn't really bother me.  I never saw her as particularly good or particularly bad, just sort of there, and she often acted towards Jon the way school kids due when they have a crush on someone.  So her death was just one more in a long line of Orson's smashed beetles.

[Bosman]

Adios Ygritte! I will forever hate you for not ending the nightmare that is Gilly. 

 

Wondering how the great frozen North can sustain an army of 100,000. What are they eating? Well, we know what the Thenns are eating, but aside from them. 

 

Thinking that they should have imported Cersei to the Wall for this battle. She can terrorize entire armies with her immobilizing bitchface. 

[KurlyGrl]

 

And if there is anything more annoying than one dimensional villains it is one dimensional heroes.  And Olly is just that.  His parents dying and that he knows how to use a crossbow are about his only personality points.  Even the Thenn's found him too boring and pointless to eat.  Which is a shame since his only purpose on the show was that scene. That type of forced cartoonish emotional manipulation (I'm going to eat your mommy and daddy!) is just not needed in a show like Game of Thrones.

 

 

 

I am just this very minute remembering who in the heck Olly was!!  When I saw him I though he was just a random boy and wondered why he was at the wall at all.  He was the shepherd/farmer boy who after the head Thenn killed his parents, and before he ate the parents, asked Olly if he knew where the wall was, to which Olly replied yes, and Mr. Thenn told him to run to the wall all Paul Revers style shouting The Thenns are coming!! 

 

 

Seriously, how long is the wall?  I know how high it is, but how many miles long.  Can’t folks just go AROUND the wall?  What is on either side of the wall?  The wall has to butt up against something?    Or is it just free standing?  If so, I say again, can’t they have gone around it?  Even if it took weeks to travel to one end or the other??  But then again, we wouldn’t have had this battle scene if it were that easy.

[CletusMusashi]

Also, how far down underground? Seems like there should have been people building tunnels for centuries. 

I did honestly like the episode, as opposed to last week's steaming pile.

But the society, the methodology, and the physical ecosystem of the north continue to make no sense.

I'm kind of left feeling that Martin's definition of "realistic fantasy" is nothing more than "you'll only get obvious magic when I feel like it!"

Edited June 10, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[LadyArcadia]

I love the Wall scenes and I loved this episode. While the Game of Thrones is going on throughout the 7 kingdoms and Mereen, the real threat is at the wall. People are too busy with politics, sexy times, and kinslaying to pay attention to this threat. 

 

Shit's goin' down, yo.  A silly trial by combat is nothing compared to what is on its way!

[hincandenza]

So for Mance Raydar and the wildling army, you can and do scale the wall away from Castle Black- that's how the advance force with Ygritte, Tormund, and the cannibal Styr got to the south side to surprise attack Castle Black- but you can't have 100,000 people go *over* the wall.  You have to take Castle Black, force open the gate, and then have your army march through. 

Edited June 10, 2014 by SilverStormm
Removed Book Talk

[toesocks]

Two questions

Do we see what happens to Master Aemon?  I know he's not able to fight, but the only place I can think that he'd *want* to stay is the library (where he found Sam).  He  certainly wasn't with Gilly.

 

My guess is the library or wherever the ravens are kept in case the castle falls.

 

 

Gotta get one of these to keep in my trunk. 

 

Anyone know how to change this gif so that it's a windshield wiper instead of the scythe?

[annlaw78]

 

But when you think about it, have they ever really had to defend the Wall in the last few hundred years or so? We know that over the centuries people stopped believing in White Walkers etc. and the post to the Night's Watch became more or less a prison sentence rather than any meaningful appointment of duty. There are supposed to be other castles along the Wall that have all been abandoned over the years because the Night's Watch has grown so puny. So I think most of them have been going through the motions, making a show of being there to "defend" the realm, when nobody really believes it's in any danger anymore.

I guess I mean there are a very few places/ways for an attack on the Wall to occur; you'd think the primary drilling of the Night's Watch would be less focused on hand-to-hand combat, and more on dropping-heavy-and/or-burning-things-on-persons-trying-to-raise the-gate (rather than staring dumbfounded while be-mammothed giants prize upon the gate).  A wall is only as strong as its holes, after all.  It doesn't do much good to have a super-talll wall, if you have no plan to keep the gate from being opened from the ground. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by annlaw78

[SoWindsor]

When Jon saw her, even with her bow drawn on him, he smiled like the sun coming out. Even after she had filled him full of arrows at their parting, he smiled at her.

 

She wouldn't have let that arrow go.

The smile was a really nice touch. Wasn't expecting it. It seems Im the only one but I was sad when she died. I liked their love story. Wonder if Gilly will mention her to Sam or Jon....the red haired wilding woman who let me go.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Thinking that they should have imported Cersei to the Wall for this battle. She can

 

terrorize entire armies with her immobilizing bitchface. 

 

 

       While drunk and wearing  her (itty bitty titty) breast plate.

 

        I was LMAO @ that and her drunken rants, during Blackwater.   

Edited June 9, 2014 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Haleth]

In the episode when we first meet Osha she tells Robb that she and her friends did go around the Wall at one coast, but it would be difficult for 100,000 people to sneak around it unnoticed.

[Holmbo]

With Game of Thrones and comic books, unless they show the cold, dead, or headless corpse, you probably shouldn't assume they are dead (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Lysa survived the fall). 

 

Maybe the eagles picked her up mid fall ;)

Since the mammoths made some people think of LoT.

[MarySNJ]

Thank you for this.  I like to think that I pay pretty close attention, but I guess I got too caught up in some of the other story lines - all through this episode, I kept wondering "Why in the hell does Mance care so much about Castle Black, and why now?"  I could not, for the life of me, figure out why all the windings were so intent on storming the castle.  And I'm still not sure I totally get it - do they want to hold it as a stronghold, after they've destroyed it?  Or do they just want to go through it, to get to the North and farther away from the Whitewalkers?  Clearly, I have not paid enough attention to this story line...

Mance is intent on storming the castle because the Wildlings want to have a chance to live without being turned into an army of dead ice zombies. As he said in season 3, he convinced all the warring and disparate factions to join him because they would all die and face a fate worse than death if they didn't get south of the Wall.

 

Since the Night's Watch wasn't likely to open the gates and let their traditional enemies through, they resorted to attacking the Wall instead.

 

I suppose they could have all tried to climb the Wall in an unguarded place, but mammoths and giants pose a problem and 100,000 is enough that someone might actually notice.

 

The irony of the show is that everyone South of the Wall thinks the battle for the Iron Throne is the most important thing. They don't believe in the real threats that are coming down from beyond the Wall. Slynt didn't even believe his own eyes when the giants and mammoths were at the gate. The coward.

[Mormegil]

 Or do they just want to go through it, to get to the North and farther away from the Whitewalkers? 

 

As Osha said all the way back in Season 1 they want to go as far South as South goes to get away from the White Walkers.

[magpye29]

Where did Ygritte go after she killed Pyp?  It seemed like Sam sat there cradling him for a long time before he actually died, and the whole time, I was waiting for Ygritte to let another arrow fly.