S04.E09: The Watchers On The Wall 2014.06.08

[Mya Stone]

Episode Synopsis: Jon Snow and the Night's Watch face a big challenge. 

 

Reminder: This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books (i.e. next weeks preview) should be in spoiler tags.

[dizzyd]

I wonder if Aemon was talking about a young Olenna.  Looks like he really loved her, but obviously she was only interested in power and he wasn’t.   Well, at least his advice gave Sam some balls.

So was Ygritte the only female wildling?  And WTF was that elephant and giants, hadn’t heard of them before?  Was this LOTR?  At least, the Lord Commander redeemed himself before he died.  None of the deaths were surprising, they all got the casualty edit.  RIP Pyp,  RIP Sir Alliser, RIP Grenn, RIP Ygritte.  And where was Manse?  Guess this was his test run.

But Yay Ghost and that ice breaker that Dolores Ed unleashed.   And WTF is Jon upto?  Wasn’t a very good episode but not too bad either.

[Lady S.]

Well, that was anti-climactic. RIP Pyp and Grenn.

[AimingforYoko]

Well, Ser Alliser may have been an asshole, but at least he was legit. Unlike Ser Janos, what a poseur.

Ygritte's death may have been predictable, but having the kid do it was a nice touch.

[prospazzinator]

They killed Pyp -- those bastards!

 

And Ser Alliser died? I thought he just fell and was injured. Though I guess it makes sense that he's dead because why else is Jon Snow hero walking out to meet Mance?

Edited June 9, 2014 by prospazzinator

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Welp, someone here called it and the kid killed Ygritte.

 

LOL @ Cue Ball running to hide where Gilly and the baby were.

 

I want to have Jon Snow babies, that is all.

 

Finally as expected, Neil Marshall returned to direct E9.

 

He also ran the show on S2 E9, Blackwater.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Well, the crows I cared about didn't die.  I was just wondering what took Sam (or anybody else) so long to let Ghost out into the fray.  I would have set him loose first! 

[Hava]

I'm really sad about Jon's friends' deaths. Like really sad. For some reason, I grow really attached to tertiary characters and, sometimes, would rather have a main character die than one of them.

 

Most of the love stories on GoT bore me. I just don't find them pointless and not executed well. Sam and Gilly's love story is the wooooooorst.

 

But all in all, an exciting episode!

[Love]

Too much Sam & Gilly for me. Their story could have been given to more of the fight scenes. It somehow didn't seem long enough. Agree that Alliser redeemed himself. Figures Slynt was a coward.

Really enjoyed the actual battle once it finally got started. Yay kid for killing Ygritte. Now I only hope Jon doesn't have a death wish.

[dramachick]

I'm exhausted.

 

Oh no, Pyp and Grenn!  Ser Aliser Thorne was a hateful somebody, but this was his defining hour and he went out like a Lord Commander.  RIP to all the brave men of the Night's Watch.

 

Oh, Ygritte.  Such a conflicted soul.  In the end, she reaped the whirlwind.

 

Janos Slynt, you coward!  I hope they put him in chains.

 

How does Jon plan to kill Mance without a sword?

 

 

[phoenix780]

I thought that was both intensely entertaining and somehow unsatisfying.  I wish they'd shown how they killed the giant (side note: I liked that the giants weren't just lumbering idiots).  I also wish I knew people's names.  For me it was a lot of "Oh, that guy...oh yeah, he's the one who did that" as I was trying to follow the battle.  

 

Have they sent messages for help to the south at all?  Seems like now would be the time to let everyone know what's about to go down at the wall.  

 

Poor Ygritte.  I suppose the lesson in both her death and the big death at the end of last week is that when you're out for revenge you should never hesitate.  It makes me worry about Arya, assuming she ever gets working on her list.

 

I hope next week they show a little Stannis and/or the Red Woman.  It's almost like he's been waiting at the bank while all this has gone on...which is kind of funny to think about.  Maybe they should just leave him there waiting for his loan to be approved.

[Lady S.]

I'm glad Ghost got into the action, at least. That was all I really wanted from this ep. And having Grenn recite the vows before death worked even better for me than the vows recited to guilt Jon Snow back in s1.

How fitting that a former Lannister stooge proved more cowardly than Joffrey.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Lady S.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

RIP to those brave six that held the gate, that was a great scene. 

[AimingforYoko]

Have they sent messages for help to the south at all?  Seems like now would be the time to let everyone know what's about to go down at the wall.

They sent ravens, but only one paid attention, thanks to a certain red witch.

[Hava]

Was it just me, or did Jon appear oddly calm during some of the fighting? Too calm, for my liking. 

[toesocks]

Good episode overall, although I really wish the men on the wall hadn't spent so much time watching the wildings set up to pull down the gate. It felt like the director/writers wanted to show this really cool thing instead of sticking to the reality of the situation. I do appreciate their continued correct terminology regarding "loosing" the arrows instead of "firing".

Have they sent messages for help to the south at all?  Seems like now would be the time to let everyone know what's about to go down at the wall.

 

They sent ravens, but only one paid attention, thanks to a certain red witch.

 

 

Do you remember what episode this was in?

Edited June 9, 2014 by toesocks

[mojoween]

Well fuck. I only really cared about five people in the battle of Castle Black and two of them died. And one in a really grisly fashion I didn't need to see twice.

Why is Jon not taking Ghost on his march to Mance?

Neil Marshall does not disappoint.

[AimingforYoko]

Do you remember what episode this was in?

Mhysa. Melisandre saw the Whitewalkers in a vision.

[bluvelvet]

Well, the crows I cared about didn't die.  I was just wondering what took Sam (or anybody else) so long to let Ghost out into the fray.  I would have set him loose first!

 

 

That was my first thought, where was Ghost? Has he been locked up this entire time, also I assumed he would leave with Jon as he was heading out to hunt Mance.  I NEED more Jon/Ghost scenes as I love the pairing and he is the one of the few Starks who still has their direwolf.

 

I thought the kid would kill the Thenn dude who said he would eat his parents and I thought Ghost was going to get Ygritte, so that was surprising but also somewhat satisfying.

 

My favorite scene was the 6 holding the gate against the giant and reciting their vows. Loved it, however why didn't they start shooting arrows at the giant while he was running down that hallway?  Pity that the Jon's friend with the beard died, I was hoping he would live but this is GOT so I should know better.

 

I have to admit, I was a bit bored by the episode, on the list of "episode 9's", this falls a the bottom for me.

 

Bring on episode 10..

[Macbeth]

My Ed is still alive.  That is all that matters to me.  Of course he will no longer have Grenn to make the sarcastic comments to.  So sad.

 

Very well done show.  The giants and Macedons were great.

 

Someone please drag Janos Slynt out from under the potatoes so he can have his first look at a giant.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

First episode ever, with Kit as the lead.

 

Also I believe, the shortest featured cast list in the opening title credits.

[gibasi]

I was bored silly.  If I had just watched the last 10 minutes that would have been enough of the whole battle.  But I didn't like the other big battle either-the one Tyrion won for them.  I just don't get into the battles.  

 

So next week is the season finale and there are just too many characters to even deal with.  Brienne and whatever the squire's name is among a lot of other stories.

 

I enjoy the episodes but have to say I think Game of Thrones is pretty overrated.  And I have been watching from the beginning.  I just don't see what everyone else does I guess.

[Lady S.]

I wonder if Aemon was talking about a young Olenna.  Looks like he really loved her, but obviously she was only interested in power and he wasn’t.   Well, at least his advice gave Sam some balls.

According to Olenna, she never wanted to marry a Targ, and was unlike her crowndigging granddaughter in that sense. Whoever Aemon's lady was, he talked as if she wanted him. GoT is often a small world, but Aemon isn't automatically Olenna's intended just because they're both eldery now. That doesn't mean they were ever young at the same time, and the other thing to consider is Aemon is only the last known Targ in Westeros now. When Olenna was of a prime marrying age, there would have been plenty of Targs to go around, but Aemon was probably already up at the Wall. I do hope Aemon elaborates more on his past someday, a man choosing service and celibacy over a throne should make a good story.

So, they added Gilly and Tormund to the opening just so it would have more than three names this ep, didn't they?

[gatopretoNYC]

Lady S, could you refresh my memory about Aemon? He is Dany's great uncle I think? Or uncle?

[bunnyblue]

Good episode. When the Giants & Mammoths marched out of the woods towards the Wall, I got a distinct LOTR Battle of Pelennor Fields vibe.

 

I loved seeing Jon in command. Good to see Alliser Thorne redeem himself and actually fight. I thought he'd take the cowards way out like Janos Slynt.

 

I loved when Jon handed Sam they key to Ghost's cage and said he needed Ghost. It was awesome to see Ghost in battle. I only wish it had gone on longer.

 

I rolled my eyes that Jon & Ygritte got 5 uninterrupted minutes in the middle of a freakin' battle so that she could die in his arms. I was sure she would reveal she was pregnant to complete the romance novel scene. Good riddance.

 

After the Giant raised the gate and walked down the tunnel towards Grenn & company, why didn't any Wildlings follow him through the gate? I kept waiting for them to storm through the tunnel and into the courtyard. Wasn't the objective to kill everyone? And how was the Gate intact and closed when Jon went through it the following morning?

[dramachick]

Special effects and makeup were fantastic this episode. I'm surprised they had enough left to show Ghost even for the little bit that he was on camera.

 

I had no idea what a scythe was.  Now, I'll never forget.

 

[spaceytraci1208]

Finally, Jon Snow is interesting to me! He unleashed quite an impressive can of whoop-ass. Also, shout-out to Sam for getting that dude right in the forehead.

Hated that Ygritte's last words were "You know nothing, Jon Snow"...very soapy

[Lady S.]

Lady S, could you refresh my memory about Aemon? He is Dany's great uncle I think? Or uncle?

Yes, great-uncle, the Mad King was his nephew. He gave up his claim, for whatever reason, so his younger brother became king instead and Aerys was his brother's son.

 

Ygritte's death felt a lot cheesier to me seeing it onscreen, and I don't mean the predictability of the littlest archer getting the shot, it felt a bit too much watching Jon cradle her as the battle was still raging.

 

Though I didn't care for it as an episode ending, Jon/Sam's goodbye was a moment that worked for me because of the callback to Mormont's sword. I assume Jon is still carrying other weapons or this really is a suicide mission.

 

I liked how they got to work in Tormund's story about fucking a bear. I was rooting for that magnificent ginger beard to survive tbh.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Lady S.

[Libby96]

I'm glad Ygritte is dead. I'm glad that little boy got to kill her. That is all.

[dramachick]

After the Giant raised the gate and walked down the tunnel towards Grenn & company, why didn't any Wildlings follow him through the gate? I kept waiting for them to storm through the tunnel and into the courtyard. Wasn't the objective to kill everyone? And how was the Gate intact and closed when Jon went through it the following morning?

 

The mammoth ran away on fire, and the wildings that were still alive ran, or were dragged, behind it.  After the giant got inside the tunnel, the gate fell closed behind him.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Anyone else notice the guy who handled business, with that huge blade? 

 

Looked like it was the kitchen or dining area.

[MrWhyt]

 

And WTF was that elephant and giants, hadn’t heard of them before?

they were in Mance's camp last season when Jon was there

[mojoween]

I know it's awful of me but I did giggle when the mammoth started to flee and one wildling caught under his leg went "splat."

[spaceytraci1208]

Anyone else notice the guy who handled business, with that huge blade?

Looked like it was the kitchen or dining area.

The thing that looked like a giant straight razor? Yup...

[AimingforYoko]

And WTF was that elephant and giants, hadn’t heard of them before?

One of the nicer FX was the giant's arrow taking a crow clean off the top of the wall and depositing him on the other side.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

The thing that looked like a giant straight razor? Yup...

 

        Dude walked out with it, hoisted over his shoulder like come get some of this bitches!

[DrSpaceman]

Great episode, nonstop action start to finish.

That huge thing that wiped those guys off the wall.........AWESOME!

AMazing that Jon and Ygritte could have there moment where it all ends there, in the middle of the battle, with no one walking up behind Jon and killing him in the process, just sitting there waiting for just anyone to walk up behind him and stab him

[Constantinople]

It was wise of Slynt to hold his beserker self in reserve in case things got really desperate.

 

It will also lead Mance to woefully underestimate the Watch's strength.

[Independent George]

        Dude walked out with it, hoisted over his shoulder like come get some of this bitches!

 

I imagine he doesn't get very many complaints about the food...

[thuganomics85]

Well, I guess war does show that not all jackasses are the same.  You've got your Allister Throne, who is an asshole, but at least he does get into the fight and doesn't back down.  And then there is your Janos Slynt, who takes a "different" approach.  The one of being a fucking craven and hiding in the cellars.  I hope he gets exposed somehow.  If Tyrion gets executed next week, he can at least take solace that he was right about what kind of man he was.

 

I will miss Rose Leslie, but I can't say I shed tears for Ygriette; especially after she killed poor Pyp.  She still participated with all the Wildings slaughter-fests, so, eh.  No real big loss.  Sad that both Pyp and Grimm are gone.  At least Dolorous Edd is still around to make snarky comments.  Loved Jon capping Tormund (an arrow to the knee!), and capturing him.  I did like Badass Jon Snow a lot.

 

Glad Neil Marshell was back to direct and the action scenes were great as expected.  I just wish the build-up was better.  Also, while I really do like the actors, Sam/Gilly aren't exactly the top of my list of things I care about.

 

So, alright episode, but this is easily the weakest of the Episode 9 "event" episodes.  I actually think that, for once, the season finale could be the "big" episode, since there is a lot of stuff that needs to be answered still, and it won't just be devoted to setting things up for next season.  At least I hope it won't.  They better answer some questions; mainly, what's going to happen to Tyrion.

 

ETA: Neil Marshall, not David Nutter.  Getting my directors mixed up!

Edited June 9, 2014 by thuganomics85

[bunnyblue]

 

I had no idea what a scythe was.  Now, I'll never forget.

 

I only know what it is and what it looks like because that's what the Grim Reaper carries. But the scythe that Edd let loose on the Wildlings didn't look like any scythe I'd ever seen. But it was certainly fabulous the way it took out the climbers.

 

 

AMazing that Jon and Ygritte could have there moment where it all ends there, in the middle of the battle, with no one walking up behind Jon and killing him in the process, just sitting there waiting for just anyone to walk up behind him and stab him

 

Right? Total BS that no one came up behind Jon and stuck a sword through his back.

 

 

After the giant got inside the tunnel, the gate fell closed behind him.

 

Thank you, sukeyna. On re-watch I looked for and noticed the gate dropping closed behind him.

 

After the battle when Sam went to check on Gilly, I was sure she had dismembered Slynt for his cowardice and was holding his leg as weapon. 

 

ETA: About Jon's sword - I can't remember if Ned or Mormont gave it to him? That looked like a wolf on the hilt but then Jon said Mormont told him not to lose it again. I'm confused.

Edited June 9, 2014 by bunnyblue

[MrsRafaelBarba]

 

Glad David Nutter was back to direct and the action scenes were great as expected.  

 

           Actually, it was Neil Marshall who directed tonight's episode.

[Haldebrandt]

The bro with the enormous meat cleaver won the episode.

 

Can't wait for the GIF.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Haldebrandt

[TV Anonymous]

If a giant can just lift the outer gate and open it, why is the complicated plan with the mammoth? Just have two or three giants to open the gate and hold it while 1000 warriors storm inside.

[Lady S.]

Watching my download now, and seeing the Sam/Gilly kiss for the first time, since my livestream was acting up in that scene. I'm probably the only one who cares about them, but it is nice that at least one guy can keep a promise to come back. I'm sad Pyp will never be able to get used to Sam cursing, though. Someone in the WiC comments had said Josef Altin had claimed to be getting ready to film s5, if so, that was some nice trolling. I was worried for Grenn, but not Pyp too.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Lady S.

[Lord Cranley]

After the battle when Sam went to check on Gilly, I was sure she had dismembered Slynt for his cowardice and was holding his leg as weapon. 

 

I had a somewhat similar, albeit darker, expectation when I watched.  I thought that, this being Game of Thrones, Slynt would take advantage of their stuck-in-the-elevator scenario and try to sexually assault her and that she would then have to beat his ass with a mutton chop.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Lord Cranley

[Lexx]

ETA: About Jon's sword - I can't remember if Ned or Mormont gave it to him? That looked like a wolf on the hilt but then Jon said Mormont told him not to lose it again. I'm confused.

Mormont gave it to him.  It originally had a bear on the pommel, since it was the ancestral sword of House Mormont.  But Jeor had it reworked so it had a direwolf's head when he gave it to Jon.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Lexx

[MrWhyt]

 

If a giant can just lift the outer gate and open it, why is the complicated plan with the mammoth? Just have two or three giants to open the gate and hold it while 1000 warriors storm inside.

With the gate torn from it's tracks they don't need to have a giant standing there holding it open for people and being a nice target. Besides, as Jon said this was a  test, Mance has a lot more men to throw at the wall.

[Constantinople]

"The interesting thing is, our vows never specifically forbid intimate relations with women"

 

Sam The Lawyer!

[SourK]

Eh. I can undesrtand the logic of structuring the season this way, but I've never been that interested in the story at the Wall. It's not my absolute least favourite story (that honour goes to Bran), but it's near the bottom of the list. I can deal when it when it's mixed in with everything else, but watching a whole episode of this is too much for me.

 

Ygritte used to be one of my favourite characters, so I should be sad that she died, but, she was AWOL for so many episodes that it was almost as if she were dead already. We haven't been taken inside her POV, or shown what she's thinking and feeling lately, and I didn't feel connected with her anymore by the time she died. I think maybe it'll be different watching the whole thing back-to-back rather than one episode a week, but I didn't feel like there was a lot of tension about what would happen when those two met up again.