S02.E11: Take A Break From Your Values

[David T. Cole]

Piper is shocked at an unexpected change in her status; Soso's hunger strike attracts new support that takes on a religious fervor.

[Happy to be here]

Once again Nicky defines something perfectly.   How Alex and Piper relate:  Spy vs Spy but sexual.

 

Oh Boo what did you do?  

[leighdear]

Boo has absolutely screwed herself.  She's not one of my favorite characters, so I'm ok with less of her.  I'm still pissed that she took Miss Claudette's afghan from Piper.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Healy decided to use a talking stick in his group counseling sessions, I thought ooh, maybe you should have gone with a talking feather or something less likely to be used as a weapon. So far no casualties, but still.

 

Polly and Larry fucked once and now they're moving in together? Ooookay. I think it's just a matter of time before they realize that they are both using each other to fill the voids in their life. Even though Polly is mad at Pete for taking off for Alaska (which I don't blame her for), just because Larry hung out with her (because he's unemployed and has nothing else to do) doesn't mean that he is long term relationship material. If he's still looking for freelance writing jobs and she's on maternity leave, who is going to pay the rent? I guess they could move into Larry's place since his parents are pretty lenient about him paying the rent but does he have a second bedroom for the baby? Am I thinking too far ahead? I feel like Larry and Polly aren't thinking far enough ahead.

 

I loved Sister Jane saying it was okay for Leanne and Angie to have pizza since they were useless anyway. Maple syrup concerns? Compared to those two, Brook looks like a serious activist.

 

Hee, and I loved how Pennsatucky pulled her hood back on after Healy told her that she was not the group facilitator the the counseling group. She just can't stand not being in charge and having special privileges!

 

Why am I not surprised that Alex was living with another girlfriend when she hooked up with Piper? Alex is not trustworthy in any way. "I guess I should have mentioned that"? Uhhhh, yeah.

 

For someone who is hiding from a major drug dealer, she sure is lax about opening the door to strangers. Once the guy yelled at her about her cardboard boxes, all she had to say was, "Okay, sorry, now I know to break down the boxes." Instead she opened the door. What if that had been one of the drug dealer's enforcers using some lame excuse to get her to open the door so he could killer her? So dumb.

[Cranberry]

Does anyone have a grasp on the time lapse since the Valentine's episode? I honestly didn't think things were moving that briskly yet suddenly there's a massive hurricane moving up the East Coast (hurricane season traditionally starts June 1). 

 

The guy on the news at the beginning of the episode said that it was a very large winter storm, so it's probably taking place not long after the Valentine's episode.

[bravelittletoaster]

When Healy decided to use a talking stick in his group counseling sessions, I thought ooh, maybe you should have gone with a talking feather

lol, I thought for sure that talking stick was the proverbial gun that's introduced in Act 1.  It didn't seem very well thought out on Healy's part.

 

 

 

Polly and Larry fucked once and now they're moving in together? Ooookay. I think it's just a matter of time before they realize that they are both using each other to fill the voids in their life. ....Am I thinking too far ahead? I feel like Larry and Polly aren't thinking far enough ahead.

I think they're being written off the show, actually.  Or I'm hoping anyhow.  Prayer circle anyone?

 

Alex Vause apologist that I am, I didn't think she was deliberately fucking Piper over in the premiere.  I'm guessing her route to safety is going to be to get herself incarcerated, not that prison would be all that safe, surely from Kubra and his minions.  But it gives them tension for her next season, presumably.  It was really dumb of her to open the damn door, but I think that was just a clunkily written scene where they had to deliver the info that Kubra's men were looking for her and they handled it kind of clumsily.

 

I'm actually kind of worried about the revelation in re: Piper's transfer, because while Laura's been running around telling the world she's in all 13 episodes next season, it occurs to me now Taylor has said no such thing.  But online viewers' stated ambivalence about Piper aside, I really can't imagine they'd get rid of the star of their show who's predicted to get an Emmy nomination.  I think I'm just being paranoid.  Unfortunately I don't have time to finish the season yet so I'm going to have to wait to see where they're going with this.

 

And yes, it's a winter storm.  I think we're still in March at the latest, only about 6 months after Piper was incarcerated.  At this rate they could squeeze four seasons out of the character easily on her original sentence.

 

I was a little disappointed at the tact they took with Sister Ingalls flashbacks, because I did want to think the best of her, and I know real Piper hugely admired the real character on whom she's based.  But I know, they're all fictionalized at this point, so the show's well within its rights to take liberties with the character.  And I do generally love a twist.  She's just flawed like everyone else.

Edited June 10, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Brn2bwild]

I was disappointed by the Sister Ingalls stuff, too, especially since she seemed completely sincere and benign in the first season.  Suddenly in Season 2, she's saying "fuck" and demeaning Brook's hunger strike.  Even if she disagreed, I doubt she would be so rude about it.  

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

As an ex-Christian, I gotta call BS on Ingalls being excommunicated. Thrown out of the order, sure. But excommunicated from the Catholic Church? That usually requires some heavy-duty heresy. Simply admitting to an affair with a Central American guerilla wouldn't go anywhere NEAR that threshold.

[hkit]

Until the late 70s, divorce was enough to get you excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. Priests and nuns are excommunicated fairly regularly for breaking their vows and entering into relationships. Just in the past 5 years, there have been excommunications as a result of a nun who allowed an abortion when it was required to save the mother's life and a priest who has spoken in support of homosexuality. In many of the cases of excommunication, it is reversed after an acceptable display of penance.

I completely buy that Sister Ingall's inconvienence to the church triggered an excommunication.

[piewarmer]

Until the late 70s, divorce was enough to get you excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church

I have a friend whose father was excommunicated for divorce, probably in the early to late 60s.

[gwlisa]

Was there a twist with Sister Ingalls' character? I didn't think the fact she's a former nun was a huge reveal. And why do previous posters say she was benign in S1 but not S2? I think trespassing and writing a book wasn't super radical. Maybe my standards are skewed!

[hkit]

Was there a twist with Sister Ingalls' character? I didn't think the fact she's a former nun was a huge reveal. And why do previous posters say she was benign in S1 but not S2? I think trespassing and writing a book wasn't super radical. Maybe my standards are skewed!

Not much of a twist, but I think the reveal excommunication and the fact that she was more of a self promoter than someone who was dedicated to her causes.

Edited June 12, 2014 by hkit

[Jael]

Well, somebody finally got shivved. Is this the first stabbing of the entire series? I've been basically assuming Vee was on the verge of stabbing someone since she showed up; very surprised that one of the Golden Girls was the first to break the seal. I might be forgetting something from S1, though.

 

Poussey just gets more and more riveting with each episode. I wasn't that interested in her last season but they have really gone deep with her in these episodes -- the actress is amazing and I'm so curious to see how her story plays out.

[apollonia666]

So Sister Ingalls isn't newsworthy because she's excommunicated?  So what about her book and having been on the front page of the New York Times?  I think they didn't quite think that one through.

[millennium]

The shiv bait and switch was cheap.   Cliche. 

 

It's good to see Alex in yet another episode.   She's my favorite character.   She lives in the moment, has a good sense of humor.   She's empathetic yet ultimately a pragmatist.    Her return to the series, like Pornstache's, is an almost nostalgic reminder of the first season of this show, which I think was much better.

[Helena Dax]

You had it coming, Boo.

 

I'm sorry that Golden Girl couldn't kill Vee. And I really want to see Figueroa  in an orange suit too. 

 

The way I see it, Sister Ingalls's still one of the best nicest people in prison. She was vain, so what?

 

I'm pretty sure Piper will stay at Litchfield and I also think she and the journalist are endgame.

[RadiantAerynSun]

Was the stabbing victim not anybody we know? I assume we were meant to think it was Vee, but was it someone we've seen before? Hair was similar to Watson was it not, but was it not her? I should've gone back and rewatched the scene but was about to go to bed.

[bravelittletoaster]

I think it all gets explained in the next episode, so we probably can't say more about it here...

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

I think it all gets explained in the next episode, so we probably can't say more about it here...

 

Oh OK, thanks, just wasn't sure if it was "supposed" to be clear or not.

[Knittzu]

The way I see it, Sister Ingalls's still one of the best nicest people in prison. She was vain, so what?

 

 

Word. Granted I'm a non-religious person and so can't relate to whatever drama is involved in being both religious and vain, but her backstory was neither shocking nor reductive to Sister Ingalls for me. In fact, it falls perfectly in line with the character I got to know in S1... which is more than I can say for a lot of the various "character development" we've seen this season. 

 

More word to whoever is praying that the silly Larry/Polly hookup is them being written out of the show. Neither is interesting to me, and I'm especially sick of Larry. Why can't his screen time go to Piper's brother? 

 

I loved seeing Alex again. Every time she's on my screen, it's a treat. This show would be so much less without her.

 

[millennium]

Well, somebody finally got shivved. Is this the first stabbing of the entire series? I've been basically assuming Vee was on the verge of stabbing someone since she showed up

 

I'm not sure Vee has the balls to do it herself.   Whether in flashbacks or the now, we have never seen her personally take care of the dirty work.   She lets her minions take the risk, probably so they'll also take the fall, if things go south.   But maybe also because she can't do it herself.

 

Speaking of going South, what exactly do you think Healy was implying when he looked Piper right in the eye and warned her, "Chapman, you're going South.  Finding closure with Vause should be the least of your worries."

Edited June 14, 2014 by millennium

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Speaking of going South, what exactly do you think Healy was implying when he looked Piper right in the eye and warned her, "Chapman, you're going South.  Finding closure with Vause should be the least of your worries."

I assume he meant that Piper comes off as sheltered and innocent, and in Virginia she'd be sharing her new prison with lots and lots of Pennsatucky types.

[DangerousMinds]

I'm not sure Vee has the balls to do it herself.   Whether in flashbacks or the now, we have never seen her personally take care of the dirty work.   She lets her minions take the risk, probably so they'll also take the fall, if things go south.   But maybe also because she can't do it herself.

 

Speaking of going South, what exactly do you think Healy was implying when he looked Piper right in the eye and warned her, "Chapman, you're going South.  Finding closure with Vause should be the least of your worries."

Vee is Charles Manson!

[DrSpaceman]

Sister Ingall's backstory here was more to frame how she has changed and how this was different from what she did before. Prior to jail her protests were all about self promotion. THis time it was not, it was all about self sacrifice for the greater good and nothing else.

Agree Larry/Polly won't last. It was a mistake they are trying to make into a relationship. Won't work.

Alex is a manipulative shrew, dont care at call about her and Piper. She is almost as bad as Vee in terms of using Piper. I wouldnt trust a word she says. If she ends up dead, won't shed a tear.

[ganesh]

I'm not surprised about Boo, nor was that made to be any great twist. I don't know where she goes from here though. 

 

I feel like Larry and Polly aren't thinking far enough ahead.

I don't avail myself of media surrounding a show because I like to be unspoiled. (Aside, since I started doing this, I've enjoyed shows much more. I had no idea that LP was only appearing in limited episodes and I think I enjoyed the show more for that.) So, I don't know if they're being written out or not. They're kind of boring. Larry hasn't changed much and I don't know enough about the husband to care that she kicked him out. Though it was funny he was down for a threesome. 

 

When Healy decided to use a talking stick in his group counseling sessions, I thought ooh, maybe you should have gone with a talking feather.

Or a talking pillow. No, you could smother someone. Talking oatmeal. I do think he is trying though. I was impressed with Caputo v Fig. I don't really get why she thought the paper was so bad, unless it was that all the copies were costing money. I guess she doesn't need a reason, but she's being really harsh and I think it's going to come to a head.

 

Simply admitting to an affair with a Central American guerilla wouldn't go anywhere NEAR that threshold.
Until the late 70s, divorce was enough to get you excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. Priests and nuns are excommunicated fairly regularly for breaking their vows and entering into relationships.
I completely buy that Sister Ingall's inconvienence to the church triggered an excommunication.

She had become something of a celeb. She mentioned lawyer fees too so she's either being sued and/or arrested. I could buy it too. So if she couldn't pay legal fees, they probably threw her in jail.

 

 

I'm not sure Vee has the balls to do it herself.   Whether in flashbacks or the now, we have never seen her personally take care of the dirty work. 

Although I do think Vee is a coward and a bully, this is actually a smart thing to do in terms of crime boss. You don't get your hands dirty. That's why the mob boss is vacationing in Florida when a boss from a rival family gets gunned down in front of a deli in Queens. "I just was talking at lunch how I thought Poussey was being unreasonable about not wanting me to work at the library. It's not my fault if Suzanne beat her up later in the bathroom."

 

And P ain't backing down. Now that I think about it though, Vee could try to pin the stabbing on her. 

 

Alex is a manipulative shrew, dont care at call about her and Piper.

 

In a way, they do kind of deserve one another. They're just not good people. And that's fine. Television is great because you can watch people that you'd stay away from irl. I actually am enjoying this season because A/P is more balanced with all the other characters and I liked how this season unfolded as a result. I don't need their story in every single episode, and just since E10 and E11, it's finally interesting. I wouldn't say I don't care about them because I do want to see how their story wraps up. But if it wrapped up at the end of S2 and the show moved on in the manner it did this season, I'd be totally fine with that. I don't consider Piper *the* main character, and I think the show can be compelling and interesting if the transfer to VA was permanent. I don't think it will, but I think JK has shown that the show can be successful long term with this ensemble cast. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by ganesh

[Hanahope]

I was bit surprised that the one golden girl really went through with the shivving.  Too bad she got the wrong one.

 

Boo should know better than to betray Red.

 

I didn't get what was so bad about Sister Ingalls.  I mean, the Catholic Church defended pedophiles.   But Sister Ingalls, not exactly showing humility, heh.  I wasn't sure she actually violated the vow of celibacy, she just wrote about it.

 

Please, I hope we don't have to deal with Polly and Larry next season.  They are both just awful.

[halgia]

Prior to jail her protests were all about self promotion. THis time it was not, it was all about self sacrifice for the greater good and nothing else.

I didn't read it that way. In the past, it was about self promotion, and she resisted getting into it because she was trying to avoid that temptation. When she joined, it was about using it for good (changes in the elder care policies). But then there was her "rock star" moment, and the insistence about being conscious / it not being fair at the end; I think the self-promotion / "look I'm being so selfless" aspects of her personality got a foothold again.

[mattie0808]

I should probably have something more substantial to say about this ep, but my main thought right now is that it could have only contained the "Nun Shall Pass" book cover and I still would have been highly entertained. Lolololol.

 

Okay, one more... I agree with some of the others here -- if the good Sister's biggest sin is vanity, I'll take that every day and twice on Sundays. I thought she was being real and not self-promoting with this one...

she wasn't happy when her fellow nuns showed up, and she could have easily turned this into a HUGE things once they did, and was ready to end the hunger strike and stop the nun protests for what she thought would be the greater good (Caputo in charge with an ability to make changes) even though, again, she could have really put the spotlight on herself to Caputo's detriment.

 

Edit: Ooops, sorry, I must have gotten my eps confused. Thanks for adding the spoiler tag!

Edited July 28, 2014 by mattie0808
Spoiler-tag things that I'm pretty sure happen in the next episode.

[smcallah]

As an ex-Christian, I gotta call BS on Ingalls being excommunicated. Thrown out of the order, sure. But excommunicated from the Catholic Church? That usually requires some heavy-duty heresy. Simply admitting to an affair with a Central American guerilla wouldn't go anywhere NEAR that threshold.

 

It doesn't require that much heresy, considering that people are excommunicated for divorce or supporting abortion.  I imagine she was excommunicated after being put in prison.  The Catholic Church wanted to distance themselves from here, so they probably used the affair with the guerrilla as the reason to excommunicate her so any news about her would no longer be attached to the Church. 

[Zuleikha]

I just finished this episode, and I am so confused by it. I couldn't figure out who Sister Ingalls was in the initial flashback while it was happening--whether she was the nun who couldn't hear Christ or whether she was the nun who lied about Sister Constance's approval for the rally. By the end of the episode, I felt fairly confident she was the former since the book repeated the thing about not hearing Christ, but it was confusing to be so confused while I was watching it. Did they say her name at some point in the flashback and I just missed it?

 

I didn't like the whole self-aggrandizement thing either. It feels very Hollywood cynical to portray political protesters as inwardly equally corrupt/flawed as that which they're protesting against. Piper Kerman's book is very kind to Sister Ardeth Platte, so there's no need to take that twist with Sister Ingalls. Why not leave her as she was? Or have her be jealous of Soso, but realize it and overcome it? There could still be a power struggle between Sister Ingalls and Soso, with Ingalls being used to a more hierarchical structure and Soso coming out of the more democratic Occupy protest tradition, but I don't like the way both are portrayed as mockable. The issues are real... especially what Yoga Janet raised about how SHU is used as a form of punishment. Abuse of solitary is a HUGE issue in the prison reform movement. 

 

I also HATE Daya being shown as guilty over Mendez. I don't know what the hell Jenji thinks she's doing with the Daya/Bennett/Mendez storyline, but it just gets more and more problematic. The false rape accusation storyline could have squeaked into okay territory if Daya was defiant and emphasized that while Mendez may have been sort of innocent in this particular case, Mendez was absolutely guilty of sexual abuse and coercion in other cases. Instead of feeling guilty, Daya could feel powerful that she was the instrument of vengeance for Tricia and the other inmates Mendez groped and coerced. But instead, it seems like Jenji is trying to make the viewer feel that Fig was right and Daya ruined an innocent man's life. It is so disappointing to have a woman-run show portray the problem of sex between inmate-guard be that the guard may end up falsely accused of rape, especially on top of the romanticized Daya/Bennett story to begin with. 

[Guest]

I hate the rape story but I wouldn't call Mendez 'falsely accused of rape'.  Whether Daya enticed him or not, a guard fucking a prisoner is not a gray area, legally or morally.  Maybe that's the writer's point with Daya's anger.  Bennett is also technically guilty and maybe Daya is realizing that ethically, he's not much better than Mendez in the end.  

 

Though I haven't watched the last two episodes yet, so sorry if that's been made abundantly clear, or not, in them!  

[wovenloaf]

Speaking of going South, what exactly do you think Healy was implying when he looked Piper right in the eye and warned her, "Chapman, you're going South.  Finding closure with Vause should be the least of your worries."

 

I didn't get the point of Healy's comment either, other than I guess the show is playing off some sort of New York-centric view of the world where everything is *scary and terrible, oh my* in the South.