Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[Happy Camper]

4 hours ago, film noire said:

Me, too.  I wonder how many others in this forum are former fans? I know a few are (from what they've posted) but not everyone (as in, some people saw through her and disliked her from jump -- smarter than me ; )

In the beginning, Bethenny was my favorite. I loved her snappy comebacks and she was able to show a genuine vulnerability. I was really rooting for Bethenny when Kelly went for her so viciously, and I felt so bad for her when Ramona said those hurtful things to her on the bridge.

Over the past few years she has just morphed into this bitter, mean woman who seems to really enjoy putting others down. She's just not the fun Bethenny anymore.

[SuprSuprElevated]

6 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I was in drivers ed with a girl whose evil parents named her Bryn Mars. In Pennsylvania.

That is evil.  I suppose her mumsy was an alum.  We should take this to small talk, and cite examples of the names that parents foisted on their poor defenseless children, lol.  

[ShawnaLanne]

9 hours ago, film noire said:

Me, too.  I wonder how many others in this forum are former fans? I know a few are (from what they've posted) but not everyone (as in, some people saw through her and disliked her from jump -- smarter than me ; )

I dislike her,  she's become a caricature of all of her worst attributes, but then I come here and the sheer vicious hatred of her seems overboard,  I know I'm in the minority in that on this board,  and I find myself defending her. It's insane. 

[film noire]

4 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I  I know I'm in the minority in that on this board,  and I find myself defending her. It's insane. 

I don't think you're in the minority (last season she was constantly defended -- you're in good company!) but I do love your (very decent) twist of ending up defending someone you dislike (I did that with Ramona once or twice and damn, it hurt so much,  I never did it again ; ) 

eta: 

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I even defended Vicky.  Hell, I felt sorry for and defended Kim Richards. Never Tamara. 

Defending Vicky has to be the Everest of Housewifery, @Higgins -- can't imagine you got ANYTHING but 800 posts of pushback on that (probably including one from me ; )

Edited March 17, 2018 by film noire

[Higgins]

13 minutes ago, film noire said:

I don't think you're in the minority (last season she was constantly defended -- you're in good company!) but I do love your (very decent) twist of ending up defending someone you dislike (I did that with Ramona once or twice and damn, it hurt so much,  I never did it again ; ) 

 

I'll probably do it. I've done it before. I even defended Vicky.  Hell, I felt sorry for and defended Kim Richards. Never Tamara. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Higgins

[ShawnaLanne]

2 hours ago, Higgins said:

I'll probably do it. I've done it before. I even defended Vicky.  Hell, I felt sorry for and defended Kim Richards. Never Tamara. 

I give you props for Vicky,  I dislike her more than anyone who has hurt me personally.

[Jextella]

On 3/16/2018 at 7:31 PM, ShawnaLanne said:

My mom desperately hates my dad and I look just like him,  my dad hates my mom and I sound just like her. It was interesting as a child. 

Holy smokes.  I feel for you.

[diadochokinesis]

On 3/16/2018 at 8:27 PM, Mondrianyone said:

Among Jews of European descent, it's a deeply rooted practice to name a child after a deceased relative.  The idea is that the soul of the departed loved one, or his or her good works, will live on in the child given that person's name.  Bryn doesn't have the exact same name as Jason's brother but a name that's suggestive of it.  Often the name that's chosen just has the same first letter as the namesake's name.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bethenny chose the name based on this practice, since her father was Jewish.  It's meant to be a joyous reminder, not a painful one.  I'm the product of a mixed marriage, and I was named after my Jewish grandfather (but an Irish name, so it brings in both families).  If anyone ever asks me why I'm named what I am, I'd be happy to say why.  It's good to be connected to your heritage.

And I think Bryn is a very pretty name.

It is also common in the South.  I'm named after an aunt.  My daughter's first name is my great-grandmother and middle name is from my husband's best friend who was KIA in Iraq.  My son is after a great-uncle. If our son was going to be a girl, he would have had my mom's name. 

[BBHN]

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I know I'm in the minority in that on this board

I'm in an even smaller minority...someone who still likes her lol

[diadochokinesis]

11 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I dislike her,  she's become a caricature of all of her worst attributes, but then I come here and the sheer vicious hatred of her seems overboard,  I know I'm in the minority in that on this board,  and I find myself defending her. It's insane. 

I defend her.  Overall, I like her. She has her moments where I feel she has gone overboard (nobody is perfect) but overall, I get her and I like her.  I just have a hard time coming up with a big hate for anybody (except for Vicki.  I have vicious hate for Vicki). 

Just now, BBHN said:

I'm in an even smaller minority...someone who still likes her lol

Count me in your group.  :)  We are a mighty 2!

[BBHN]

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Count me in your group.  :)  We are a mighty 2!

I'll get the Skinnygirl chai karak!

[diadochokinesis]

2 minutes ago, BBHN said:

I'll get the Skinnygirl chai karak!

*whispers* I hate karak.  And halloumi.  It is like eating rubber. 

[BBHN]

Lol

I can take it or leave it, but I do love me some halloumi, especially grilled...

Edited March 18, 2018 by BBHN

[Otherkate]

6 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

I defend her.  Overall, I like her. She has her moments where I feel she has gone overboard (nobody is perfect) but overall, I get her and I like her.  I just have a hard time coming up with a big hate for anybody (except for Vicki.  I have vicious hate for Vicki). 

Count me in your group.  :)  We are a mighty 2!

Hah, I think we are many actually, but a lot don't participate anymore.

I am so thankful she's back on this show. Doesn't mean I like everything she does - I was horrified by her ragesplosion at Lu for instance. I could barely look at her the next episode. I also really hated her relationship with Jason and stopped watching her show. Guess that's dead though!

[Rap541]

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I dislike her,  she's become a caricature of all of her worst attributes, but then I come here and the sheer vicious hatred of her seems overboard,  I know I'm in the minority in that on this board,  and I find myself defending her. It's insane. 

You're not alone. I don't like her - the only RHONY housewives I ever liked were Heather (who was smart enough to leave) and Alex (who did get on my nerves but I appreciated her). I just am genuinely surprised at times how things that would never be questioned or treated as the act of a horrid person are pretty much always deemed  the acts of a horrid person when Bethenny is doing them. To keep it on topic - I defend Bethenny's right to pursue sole custody because this is America, and not Gilead, and Bethenny isn't required to bow her head and say "yes sir, you're men and I am a woman and will sit silent" - she has every right to take her ex husband to court for custodial purposes because it's her child, not ours, and I personally trust the legal system enough to know she's not going to buy sole custody, she's going to need to prove her reason for it. 

The reality here is that Bethenny, if this was all keeping the kid from Jason, could steal the kid to a foreign country pretty damn easily. She's rich. Sure, she's well known but that just means she could set herself and Bryn up very nicely in a foreign country and live well, and never let Jason see his daughter so very easily. That's the act of a vile, evil person who has the money to punish her ex by never allowing him to see his child. 

And instead she's pursuing custody and catching flak for the crime of questioning a legal arrangement. Most other women would be applauded for using the legal system to change custody situations, rather than do something extreme. She has every right to take Jason to court for custody. He has every right as well. That's why we have courts. It's neither vicious nor unusual - I know many divorced couples who are constantly in court over custody and in all those situations, I have never found a situation where one parent was absolutely wrong while the other was an innocent victim of the first parent. Based on what's been said in the media by both sides, I think there are some valid reasons to consider changing this custodial agreement. That I think that does not mean I love Bethenny's every action, or even that I like her. I just think she has every  right to have her concerns brought to court and examined and that it isn't an act of malicious intent. 

[film noire]

On 3/18/2018 at 3:01 PM, Rap541 said:

I just am genuinely surprised at times how things that would never be questioned or treated as the act of a horrid person are pretty much always deemed  the acts of a horrid person when Bethenny is doing them.

But dozens of posters complain about every aspect of other housewives (Vicki and Tamara frex) over matters large and small, so I don't quite understand surprise over that.  (And since we're  literally told to snark on the housewives -- not each other -- that means snarking is a given here  ; )

eta

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And instead she's pursuing custody and catching flak for the crime of questioning a legal arrangement.

I think she's catching flack for undermining her child's stability, especially when Bryn is -- by all accounts, including Bethenny's -- doing very well with the current situation.

Edited March 22, 2018 by film noire

[WireWrap]

31 minutes ago, film noire said:

But dozens of posters complain about every aspect of other housewives (Vicki and Tamara frex) over matters large and small, so I don't understand surprise over that.  (And since we're  literally told to snark on the housewives -- not each other -- that means snarking is a given here  ; )

I agree! Look at how some go at Luann, especially since she got arrested, nothing she has done (including going into/completing rehab, apologizing) is good enough. When we snark on a HW, it doesn't mean that we think/feel that HW is pure evil and nothing else, even Bethenny. LOL

[SCS]

16 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I agree! Look at how some go at Luann, especially since she got arrested, nothing she has done (including going into/completing rehab, apologizing) is good enough. When we snark on a HW, it doesn't mean that we think/feel that HW is pure evil and nothing else, even Bethenny. LOL

 

I am happy to put myself in that category and my reasons for doing so result from multiple seasons of Lu positioning herself as Her Ladyship of Propriety, while not following her own loudly voiced rules, and who managed to land herself a mug shot (in which she appears to be semi-intoxicated), legal uh-oh-I-just-crapped-my-pants problems, and incredibly humiliating press coverage. Yes, some wives throughout the HWs universe have had legal problems in the past and there's Kim/BH, of course, who's a mess but they've never set themselves forth as Queens of Etiquette. IMO, Lu's claims of rehab and a fresh start are ploys suggested by her attorney.

[BBHN]

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I think she's catching flack for undermining her child's stabilty, especially when Bryn is -- by all accounts, including Bethnny's -- doing very well with the current situation.

She might do just as well with the new situation too.

[ShawnaLanne]

I don't have any legal agreement with my ex,  he pays child support because it's the right thing to do and can see our son whenever he wants to,  which is once or twice a year, and while I float every major issue up to him,  for example,  he's an agnostic and I started taking our kid to church,  he was cool with that,  he might have an opinion if it was Scientology or something, but maybe not. Anyhow,  as much as I sometimes wish he'd play a more active role,  if my ex had startlingly different values than I, even if my kid was doing well,  I can see going for sole custody. I'm surprised Hoppy hasn't tried to as well. 

[QuinnM]

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Anyhow,  as much as I sometimes wish he'd play a more active role,  if my ex had startlingly different values than I, even if my kid was doing well,  I can see going for sole custody. I'm surprised Hoppy hasn't tried to as well. 

Oh that would mean the support money goes down.  Hoppy can’t have that.  Brynn is worth $12500 a month.  I bet anything this is about a surrogate standing in for Hoppy when he is on the road.  And in that case even if Bethenny doesn’t get sole custody she will have Brynn on her days AND on any day Hoppy is not available as a parent.  Then she keeps track of that over a year.  Then you look at the numbers and maybe go back to court to say the child is in your physical custody 80% of the time.  And then you get sole custody and Hoppy gets a smaller check.

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Hoppy can’t have that.  Brynn is worth $12500 a month.  

Oh he could geniunely love his daughter and want to be a an active and equal parent to her.

[QuinnM]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

Oh he could geniunely love his daughter and want to be a an active and equal parent to her.

Then we are back to the question on why he doesn’t ask for sole custody.  We know what he thinks of Bethenny.  We’ve seen the emails.  Why if he genuinely loved his daughter wouldn’t he want sole custody?

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Then we are back to the question on why he doesn’t ask for sole custody.  We know what he thinks of Bethenny.  We’ve seen the emails.  Why if he genuinely loved his daughter wouldn’t he want sole custody?

Because he is aware that his child loves her mother and should be a part of her life and that even if he hates her Bethenny should also have an equal say in Brynns life? 

Sole custody doesnt mean you love your chold more. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by biakbiak

[QuinnM]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

Because he is aware that his child loves her mother and should be a part of her lives and that even if he hates her Bethenny should also have an equal say in Brynns life? 

That explains him asking for dry cleaning money.

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

That explains him asking for dry cleaning money.

The two have nothing to do with one another. One was about spousal support and one is about child custody. If he went for and was awarded sole custody Bethenny would most likely have to pay more in child support. Not having joint custody doesnt absolve you of child support.

Edited March 19, 2018 by biakbiak

[Rap541]

Quote

Because he is aware that his child loves her mother and should be a part of her life and that even if he hates her Bethenny should also have an equal say in Brynns life? 

This does seem at odds with his behavior. 

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

This does seem at odds with his behavior. 

Bethenny has never alleged that he has tried to alienate Brynn from her, tried to keep her from her, or tried for sole custody. Their issue is that they hate each other but both appear to love their daughter. Should Jason have let his anger at Bethanny escalate to the point it did? Of course not but there is no indication that he has tried to limit Bethenny's role in her life.

Edited March 19, 2018 by biakbiak

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

Oh that would mean the support money goes down.  Hoppy can’t have that.  Brynn is worth $12500 a month.  I bet anything this is about a surrogate standing in for Hoppy when he is on the road.  And in that case even if Bethenny doesn’t get sole custody she will have Brynn on her days AND on any day Hoppy is not available as a parent.  Then she keeps track of that over a year.  Then you look at the numbers and maybe go back to court to say the child is in your physical custody 80% of the time.  And then you get sole custody and Hoppy gets a smaller check.

Does Jason travel out of state for his job? Most Pharm reps have a territory within their city/state and don't travel overnight very often. On the other hand, Bethenny is not only out of the city/state a lot, she frequently travels out of the country, so I could believe that she is the one that needs someone to help her with Bryn when she is out of the area, not Jason.

[Rap541]

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Bethenny has never alleged that he has tried to alienate Brynn from her, tried to keep her from her, or tried for sole custody. There issue is that they hate each other but both appear to love their daughter.

That Bethenny has never accused him doesn't make his behavior non-alienating.  I mean, if it's about public allegations, technically I don't think Jason is on record saying Bethenny is a bad parent but people here continually insist she's a bad parent alienating her daughter against her ex.* If we go by Jason's public comments on Bethenny's parenting, nobody  should be saying anything but mild praise.

Quote

Does Jason travel out of state for his job? Most Pharm reps have a territory within their city/state and don't travel overnight very often. On the other hand, Bethenny is not only out of the city/state a lot, she frequently travels out of the country, so I could believe that she is the one that needs someone to help her with Bryn when she is out of the area, not Jason.

In fairness, for both this amounts to no one really having any idea how much either travels.

*Anticipating the ensuing argument, no, I don't consider the mere act of requesting sole custody to be the sign of a mother attempting to alienate her child against their father

[ShawnaLanne]

34 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Does Jason travel out of state for his job? Most Pharm reps have a territory within their city/state and don't travel overnight very often. On the other hand, Bethenny is not only out of the city/state a lot, she frequently travels out of the country, so I could believe that she is the one that needs someone to help her with Bryn when she is out of the area, not Jason.

Most sales people I have worked with do have a sales region and it's typically multi-state.

[film noire]

4 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Hoppy can’t have that.  Brynn is worth $12500 a month.  

She could end any supposed gravy train by asking for both joint custody & primary physical custody, waiving any child support from the non-custodial parent (Jason) and ending child support (as the child is now living primarily with her).  

And she'd likely have a much better shot at getting that from the court than sole custody - but since she (imo) wants to get rid of Hoppy as a co-parent more than anything, she pursued stripping him of his legal standing in Bryn's life.

She's trying to turn him from a father into an uncle;  your daughter can stay with you (per visitation) but you can't decide anything of vital importance in her life. 

Minus any child abuse, that's selfish and wrong, imo. Fathers matter.

 

4 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

if my ex had startlingly different values than I, even if my kid was doing well,  I can see going for sole custody. 

Would you do it after four years, though? That's more than half her life span -- a huge upheaval for a child who is currently thriving.

(And it's cool you and your ex figured it out minus the courts -- kadooz : )

Edited March 20, 2018 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, Rap541 said:

That Bethenny has never accused him doesn't make his behavior non-alienating.  I mean, if it's about public allegations, technically I don't think Jason is on record saying Bethenny is a bad parent but people here continually insist she's a bad parent alienating her daughter against her ex.* If we go by Jason's public comments on Bethenny's parenting, nobody  should be saying anything but mild praise.

In fairness, for both this amounts to no one really having any idea how much either travels.

*Anticipating the ensuing argument, no, I don't consider the mere act of requesting sole custody to be the sign of a mother attempting to alienate her child against their father

Bethenny believes and has stated that Jason is unable to communicate without hurting her feelings so the current custody arrangement should be scrapped and one more favorable to her should be ordered.  Jason is on record questioning some of Bethenny's motivations when it comes to parenthood.  Bethenny believes and has stated Jason and his family are horrible human beings.  Of course Bethenny says pretty much the same thing about her family.

Recently I watched an old tape of Oprah interviewing Kelsey Grammer who had an acrimonious divorce from Camille and in spite of splitting in 2010 has never spoken to her since.  During the interview Kelsey said the kids are great.  Oprah replied, that doesn't happen by accident.  Camille who bad mouthed Kelsey for years now refers to the arrangement as parallel parenting.  Kelsey who is happily remarried and has three children with the current wife claims Camille would be unable to co-parent.   

2 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

Most sales people I have worked with do have a sales region and it's typically multi-state.

I live in a big state and many sales reps I know never leave the LA Basin or the SF Bay area.  I just always assumed it was the same way for the Tri-State area-they didn't necessarily have to be away overnight.  Thanks for the insight.  Jason has 15 days out of the month to travel if he must for business.  I would think he most likely takes that into consideration.   

I do hope we are not setting advancements in family law back by insisting the better parent is the one who does not have to work.  Many in intact families have parents who work and are not available 24/7.  Obviously if you are out of town-be it for filming or a normal job the best interests would dictate the other parent have the child.  Jason may be able to have his parents, watch the child if he is called out of town.  

[ShawnaLanne]

50 minutes ago, film noire said:

She could end any supposed gravy train by asking for both joint custody & primary physical custody, waiving any child support from the non-custodial parent (Jason) and ending child support (as the child is now living primarily with her).  

And she'd likely have a much better shot at getting that from the court than sole custody - but since she (imo) wants to get rid of Hoppy as a co-parent more than anything, she pursued stripping him of his legal standing in Bryn's life.

She's trying to turn him from a father into an uncle;  your daughter can stay with you (per visitation) but you can't decide anything of vital importance in her life. 

Minus any child abuse, that's selfish and wrong, imo. Fathers matter.

 

Would you do it after four years, though? That's more than half her life span -- a huge upheaval for a child who is currently thriving.

(And it's cool you and your ex figured it out minus the courts -- kadooz : )

 

Yes,  I would if I something came up or a preponderance of little things came up. That doesn't mean he'd be cut out completely, just that he couldn't make major life decisions. It doesn't mean he can't see the child,  from what I've read it doesn't sound like she's asking for sole physical custody.

The difference is this: 

"Sole Legal Custody: One parent has the right and responsibility to make major decisions regarding the child’s welfare, including matters of education, medical care and emotional, moral and religious development.

Sole Physical Custody: The child resides with and under the supervision of one parent, subject to reasonable visitation by the other parent, unless the court determines that such visitation would not be in the best interest of the child."

Also, thank you! :) 

Edited March 20, 2018 by ShawnaLanne

[ShawnaLanne]

1 minute ago, zoeysmom said:

Bethenny believes and has stated that Jason is unable to communicate without hurting her feelings so the current custody arrangement should be scrapped and one more favorable to her should be ordered.  Jason is on record questioning some of Bethenny's motivations when it comes to parenthood.  Bethenny believes and has stated Jason and his family are horrible human beings.  Of course Bethenny says pretty much the same thing about her family.

Recently I watched an old tape of Oprah interviewing Kelsey Grammer who had an acrimonious divorce from Camille and in spite of splitting in 2010 has never spoken to her since.  During the interview Kelsey said the kids are great.  Oprah replied, that doesn't happen by accident.  Camille who bad mouthed Kelsey for years now refers to the arrangement as parallel parenting.  Kelsey who is happily remarried and has three children with the current wife claims Camille would be unable to co-parent.   

I live in a big state and many sales reps I know never leave the LA Basin or the SF Bay area.  I just always assumed it was the same way for the Tri-State area-they didn't necessarily have to be away overnight.  Thanks for the insight.  Jason has 15 days out of the month to travel if he must for business.  I would think he most likely takes that into consideration.   

I do hope we are not setting advancements in family law back by insisting the better parent is the one who does not have to work.  Many in intact families have parents who work and are not available 24/7.  Obviously if you are out of town-be it for filming or a normal job the best interests would dictate the other parent have the child.  Jason may be able to have his parents, watch the child if he is called out of town.  

You brought travel into it by insisting that most people you knew didn't need to travel overnight. I had 15 years in Marketing in The Bay Area,  that is what I based my stats on. I also know that no sales person can arrange all or the majority of their travel dates. I neithrr added a value judgement or opinion on the travel question, merely my knowledge of how it works. 

However,  this is a rich statement considering people on this board have ripped Bethany for all the travel she does in the past. 

[WireWrap]

13 minutes ago, ShawnaLanne said:

You brought travel into it by insisting that most people you knew didn't need to travel overnight. I had 15 years in Marketing in The Bay Area,  that is what I based my stats on. I also know that no sales person can arrange all or the majority of their travel dates. I neithrr added a value judgement or opinion on the travel question, merely my knowledge of how it works. 

However,  this is a rich statement considering people on this board have ripped Bethany for all the travel she does in the past. 

I don't remember anyone here ripping Bethenny for her travel, be it work or play. We have discussed her claim that she doesn't have any help with Bryn when she is with her but we already know that Bethenny is lying when she says that, her first season back going to Dorinda's Berkshires home Bethenny had her assistant watch her while she filmed. But ripping her just because she travels, No.

[zoeysmom]

15 minutes ago, ShawnaLanne said:

You brought travel into it by insisting that most people you knew didn't need to travel overnight. I had 15 years in Marketing in The Bay Area,  that is what I based my stats on. I also know that no sales person can arrange all or the majority of their travel dates. I neithrr added a value judgement or opinion on the travel question, merely my knowledge of how it works. 

However,  this is a rich statement considering people on this board have ripped Bethany for all the travel she does in the past. 

I didn't insist, I am suggesting that many sales reps have areas that do not require overnight travel.  I would think Jason would take into consideration his custody schecule and work through conflicts with his company just as Bethenny works her filming schedule around her custody schedule.

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

She's trying to turn him from a father into an uncle;  your daughter can stay with you (per visitation) but you can't decide anything of vital importance in her life. 

Minus any child abuse, that's selfish and wrong, imo. Fathers matter.

Why should the only legitimate reason for one parent to have sole legal custody be child abuse by the other parent?

There people out there who LOVE to make every single decision about their kid into warfare just to punish their former spouse.  Just be totally unreasonable for absolutely no reason other than to be a pain in the ass.  I don't think a person should have to allow their ex to vex and hassle them just for sport, unable to do anything to change the dynamic because the ex isn't technically abusing the child. 

If there is not a legitimate problem with the way Jason handles making decisions then Bethenny won't get sole legal custody.  If he is being a dick just for the hell of it, then he will get what he deserves - which is to be cut out of the decision-making process.  And he would have brought it on himself . So no sympathy. 

[zoeysmom]

I have to question at this juncture in the child's life what decisions are being made.  Religious-go to mass go to temple.*  Medical is there an issue?  The daily phone call? The only one left I can think of that may be germane to the present is allowing Bryn to appear on camera?   

* I wonder if there is any case law of forcing a kid to be restrained from any religious exposure because the parents can't agree  to a religion? 

[BBHN]

Quote

Hoppy can’t have that.  Brynn is worth $12500 a month.  

Those clothes ain't gonna dry clean themselves! ;)

Quote

Recently I watched an old tape of Oprah interviewing Kelsey Grammer

Kelsey also cheated on his wife, and also said his marriage was over as soon as it began...and yet, he and Camille had their first child 4 years after getting married. Why would he have stayed with her for 4 years if it was over and there were no kids? Dumping Camille would have been much easier during that period. I'd take anything Kelsey says about his marriage to Camille with a grain of salt. Not a hole mill, just a grain.

[zoeysmom]

9 hours ago, BBHN said:

Those clothes ain't gonna dry clean themselves! ;)

Kelsey also cheated on his wife, and also said his marriage was over as soon as it began...and yet, he and Camille had their first child 4 years after getting married. Why would he have stayed with her for 4 years if it was over and there were no kids? Dumping Camille would have been much easier during that period. I'd take anything Kelsey says about his marriage to Camille with a grain of salt. Not a hole mill, just a grain.

I didn't say anything about Grammer marriage the onset, the middle or the end.  All I have pointed out is since divorcing and that was back in 2010, Kelsey will not speak to Camille, they share joint custody and both claim the children are thriving.  Oprah made a comment about not happening by accident. It was an example of how parties can parent separately or as Camille calls it parallel parent without any interaction.  Bethenny said at the last Reunion any agreement would have to include no contact with Jason.  I quoted Kelsey when he said Camille was incapable of co-parenting.  It probably didn't hurt anything that Camille received $30 million in the divorce settlement.  The other major difference is Kelsey has been happily remarried for seven years has three children with his wife and neither Bethenny or Jason seem to have had a sustained relationship with another partner.  Perhaps it figures into their focus of having a constant "at issue" regarding custody.  

[BBHN]

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I didn't say anything about Grammer marriage the onset, the middle or the end

But you did bring up things Kelsey claimed and said, hence my pointing out his perspective is a bit skewed, to say the list.

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Oprah made a comment about not happening by accident. It was an example of how parties can parent separately or as Camille calls it parallel parent without any interaction.  Bethenny said at the last Reunion any agreement would have to include no contact with Jason. 

That's all great and fine for Kelsey and Camille, but that doesn't necessarily mean it applies to Bethenny and Jason. Different couples, different people.

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I quoted Kelsey when he said Camille was incapable of co-parenting. 

Given the other things he has said which I referred to above, it does make a person wonder how forthright he is being.

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It probably didn't hurt anything that Camille received $30 million in the divorce settlement. 

Not sure how that applies to Bethenny and Jason's example, but considering how Kelsey was fucking another woman while married to Camille, good for Camille.

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The other major difference is Kelsey has been happily remarried for seven years has three children with his wife and neither Bethenny or Jason seem to have had a sustained relationship with another partner. 

This is Kelsey's fourth marriage, he seems to have had a heck of a lot more practice at it than either Bethenny or Jason. And as I said in a different thread, I do hope fourth time is the charm for him.

Edited March 20, 2018 by BBHN

[quaintirene]

On 2018-03-12 at 12:36 PM, Celia Rubenstein said:

What Perez Hilton did was indefensible.  

I remember I was back home for Christmas over 20 years ago and I confided in my younger sister that I was newly pregnant. She decided it was okay to tell her husband who just happened to be friends with the older brother of one of my friends from high school.  My BIL told the brother (who lived a thousand miles away and didn't even know me!) who then told his sister (who lived another thousand miles away!) who proceeded to tell her mother back home who then told everyone in town I was pregnant. I was only four weeks along!  I was horrified. This happened over the course of a week and back in the days of landlines, for Pete's sake! And I'm just some nobody! 

Perez Hilton putting Bethenny's pregnancy news on blast across all of America was a (typically) shitty thing of him to do. He deserved a lot more than just being called a few names, imo.

The only thing that made it worse was how Jason responded to it. He was a complete asshole. He acted like it was Bethenny's fault somehow, all pissed off at her. It made me sick watching her squirm and apologize like she was guilty of something. He should have been worrying about her feelings and the stress it had caused her. Instead he was all about his pathetic, needy, clingy parents and how he was possibly going to be denied his *big moment* announcing he'd knocked up a woman he barely knew.  I knew then and there Jason was a selfish irredeemable asshole who didn't really care about Bethenny and their marriage was a huge mistake! 

Yeah I remember feeling really sorry for Bethenny at that moment.  And I know she felt it was her fault.  Which in a way it was, because she was famous on a Reality TV show which made her pregnancy newsworthy and some horrible person sold her out.  And even though it was not down to her, she didn't put the news out there at all,  I get that Jason was really upset about it.  I understand every bit of that.  But whatever happened in their relationship afterwards was obviously not good and I think they have both been assholes on occasion.  I hope they can work it out for the kid's sake.

[zoeysmom]

6 hours ago, BBHN said:

But you did bring up things Kelsey claimed and said, hence my pointing out his perspective is a bit skewed, to say the list.

That's all great and fine for Kelsey and Camille, but that doesn't necessarily mean it applies to Bethenny and Jason. Different couples, different people.

Given the other things he has said which I referred to above, it does make a person wonder how forthright he is being.

Not sure how that applies to Bethenny and Jason's example, but considering how Kelsey was fucking another woman while married to Camille, good for Camille.

This is Kelsey's fourth marriage, he seems to have had a heck of a lot more practice at it than either Bethenny or Jason. And as I said in a different thread, I do hope fourth time is the charm for him.

What I cited Kelsey as saying is the kids were great.  Comparison to Bethenny and Jason-they both claim the child is thriving.  So Kelsey saying the kids are great would be skewed?  

The example was for the purposes of citing a a couple who cannot communicate, whose children seem to be doing well and share custody.  I certainly never said or implied they were the same people or couple.  I see Jason as the one in the Camille role that he has to come to terms with the fact he may never see or speak to Bethenny again.  Jason was hurt by Bethenny ending the marriage.   Bethenny is pretty much just hurt over Jason existence.  Camille and Kelsey have both said there was no sex the last ten years of the marriage-Camille was perhaps a little more graphic than need be.   I see Bethenny as the celebrity and the one with the power who wants to dictate what she will accept in her life and how she wants to be portrayed.  To me, it just seems all parties have to accept the fact the only fair solution is joint custody.  Like Camille has come to experience, a designated third party communication person is what makes things work for the children.

I don't think divorce and custody is about practice making perfect.  It is about parents accepting the fact children love both their parents and accept the idea they both need to be in the children's lives.  

[BBHN]

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So Kelsey saying the kids are great would be skewed? 

No, but stuff like Camille being unable to co-parent could be.

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The example was for the purposes of citing a a couple who cannot communicate, whose children seem to be doing well and share custody.

Yes, and that's fine, but their sotuations are very different. Bethenny, to my knowledge, didn't cheat on Jason the way Kelsey did with Camille. Bethenny and Jason have less kids and K&C and also were married for a shorter time. On paper the only real similarity between them is Jason could the Camille in that Bethenny/Kelsey had the money in the relationship. Though Camille either had a better divorce lawyer/pre-nup/Kelsey may have felt guilty for screwing someone else while married/etc.

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Jason was hurt by Bethenny ending the marriage.

Yes, when someone loses access to their ATM, I'm sure they would feel hurt.

[SCS]

14 hours ago, BBHN said:

No, but stuff like Camille being unable to co-parent could be.

Yes, and that's fine, but their sotuations are very different. Bethenny, to my knowledge, didn't cheat on Jason the way Kelsey did with Camille. Bethenny and Jason have less kids and K&C and also were married for a shorter time. On paper the only real similarity between them is Jason could the Camille in that Bethenny/Kelsey had the money in the relationship. Though Camille either had a better divorce lawyer/pre-nup/Kelsey may have felt guilty for screwing someone else while married/etc.

Yes, when someone loses access to their ATM, I'm sure they would feel hurt.

 

You are completely right with all of this, IMO. The Oprah interview mentioned above not only demonstrates Kelsey's, um, issues, it shows Oprah's raging hypocrisy when top stars (examples of this would be Kelsey, Tom Hanks, or Julia Roberts) sit for interviews and rhapsodize about their respective marriages, which began while either the performer, the spouse or both were involved with other people. Mother Oprah is always understanding and cozy with her industry peers.

[OldButHappy]

On March 19, 2018 at 8:33 PM, zoeysmom said:

Bethenny believes and has stated that Jason is unable to communicate without hurting her feelings so the current custody arrangement should be scrapped and one more favorable to her should be ordered.

In my experience, one of the most problematic aspects of trying to deal with true narcissists is that any disagreement with them is viewed as an attack.  It does not surprise me that B would perceive J's unwillingness to agree with her all the time as an "inability to communicate without hurting her feelings"....

[QuinnM]

36 minutes ago, OldButHappy said:

It does not surprise me that B would perceive J's unwillingness to agree with her all the time as an "inability to communicate without hurting her feelings"...

Or it could be that calling her evil, ugly and threatening to destroy her was interpreted by Bethenny as not nice.

[zoeysmom]

On 3/20/2018 at 9:29 PM, BBHN said:

No, but stuff like Camille being unable to co-parent could be.

Yes, and that's fine, but their sotuations are very different. Bethenny, to my knowledge, didn't cheat on Jason the way Kelsey did with Camille. Bethenny and Jason have less kids and K&C and also were married for a shorter time. On paper the only real similarity between them is Jason could the Camille in that Bethenny/Kelsey had the money in the relationship. Though Camille either had a better divorce lawyer/pre-nup/Kelsey may have felt guilty for screwing someone else while married/etc.

Yes, when someone loses access to their ATM, I'm sure they would feel hurt.

If one parent decides they do not want to communicate with the other parent that pretty much puts an end to any kind co-parenting arrangement.  It sounded to me as if Camille was hurt and was dwelling on the hurt (she has recently said she has decided to stop bashing him publicly) which made it unlikely the two could communicate.  Jason has written excessive and snotty e-mails to Bethenny and Bethenny has had a lot to say about Jason that is negative.  They don't like each other and have a very difficult time believing either party either party never speaks poorly of the other in the child's presence.  

For purposes of custody it doesn't really matter why one party left-short of abuse, insanity or addiction.  It didn't work from Brandi Glanville no matter how hard she tried to paint Eddie and Leann out to be monsters and it didn't work for Camille.  I think the greatest similarities between the two couples is they both appeared on Bravo reality shows.  Anytime one party is put out of the marriage it hurts.  

Kelsey got married for the fourth time without a pre-nup-apparently he doesn't believe in them.  He claimed it isn't about the money but being happy.  So if he is worth $50 million and his present wife divorces him maybe he just figures $25 million is enough to get by on and not worth the energy to fight it.  Bethenny's pre-nup brought her some financial security and she has been quite visible about the money issues between she and Jason. 

I don't think Jason's sole reason for being hurt was Bethenny dumping him was solely the money.  Often times I think what people miss the most is the family unit and the freedom to be in the children's lives 24/7.

20 hours ago, SCS said:

 

You are completely right with all of this, IMO. The Oprah interview mentioned above not only demonstrates Kelsey's, um, issues, it shows Oprah's raging hypocrisy when top stars (examples of this would be Kelsey, Tom Hanks, or Julia Roberts) sit for interviews and rhapsodize about their respective marriages, which began while either the performer, the spouse or both were involved with other people. Mother Oprah is always understanding and cozy with her industry peers.

I am not an Oprah devotee and I am not quite sure how an interviewer handles someone who glosses over the dissolution of their marriage when they moved on to someone else and they are still with the person and have children with the person.  Aren't the celebs' marriages just one component of the interview? It reminds me of Bethenny, after the break up of her marriage saying she was forced to go through with the wedding because of Andy Cohen.  Sometimes the viewers just draw their own conclusions to the celebs' responses.

Reagardless of whether or not Bethenny and Jason ever married they would have still had to deal with child custody, visitation and support. 

[film noire]

On 3/21/2018 at 3:55 PM, OldButHappy said:

In my experience, one of the most problematic aspects of trying to deal with true narcissists is that any disagreement with them is viewed as an attack.  It does not surprise me that B would perceive J's unwillingness to agree with her all the time as an "inability to communicate without hurting her feelings"....

Winner Winner, chicken dinner! : )

Edited March 22, 2018 by film noire