S02.E08: Variable and Full of Perturbation

[beedub]

Really????

 

If this is true it baffles me.  You don't normally get shot and then walk out of the hospital within, what a day? major organs damaged or not, Sarah was convinced she was dead to the point of just leaving her there and not trying to do anything further.  My impression was she recovered pretty quickly from those injuries.  It normally takes weeks to month to recover from any gunshot wound, no matter how minor, she was over it in a few days. 

I'm with you. After all, you are a doctor.

Edited June 9, 2014 by beedub

[DrLar]

Meh Tony did nothing for me, bad hair, bad beard, and no hair on his legs? so the testosterone only helps him grow facial hair?

[Zuleikha]

Major organs damaged or not, Sarah was convinced she was dead to the point of just leaving her there and not trying to do anything further.  My impression was she recovered pretty quickly from those injuries.

 

Sarah thought she'd shot Helena point blank in the heart, which is why Sarah was so convinced Helena was dead. IMHO, it was still stupid on Sarah's part because nothing about Sarah indicates she's such a trained marksman or doctor that she could feel confident she'd really gotten the heart rather than a bit above or below. But Sarah was freaked out about Amelia's murder, so I view that as in-character error rather than plot contrivance.

 

Helena was severely injured, but she also received treatment from both a hospital and the Proletheans. I have a hard time following time on this show, so I'm not sure how many days actually elapsed. The Internet claims that for a young and healthy person, a handgun bullet to the chest with no major organs involved can be healed from in two weeks. I think if Helena were to be fully recovered from both rebar and gunshot wound, she either has to share Kira's accelerated healing or it's unrealistic, but I'm not sure that we've seen enough of Helena to say that she's fully recovered. We know she has amazing pain tolerance (based on her self-scarification and her sewing up of her rebar wound), so I think it's possible that her treatment with the Proletheans healed her enough to be physically active again but that she still has pain. I'm not assuming either way at this point.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Then why did he keep them, why were they searching for them and why are they even trying to recover the information from the floppy disks ?  Why doesn't he just tell them what is on there now that he is at DYAD?

Even though he's the one who made the breakthrough and could reproduce the work from memory, something like that would be a lot easier with his notes. DYAD was searching for them because they lost their copy in the fire. I doubt he trusts DYAD that much. What's on the disks is probably not anything they can interpret without his help (or possibly the book Kira has).

[maraleia]

Hey everyone great posts so far about the episode in general and the new clone Tony. FYI- here is some information on what terms to use and what terms to avoid courtesy of the GLAAD media resource page (in quotes below).
 

Problematic: "transgenders," "a transgender"

Preferred: "transgender people," "a transgender person"

 

Transgender should be used as an adjective, not as a noun. Do not say, "Tony is a transgender," or "The parade included many transgenders." Instead say, "Tony is a transgender man," or "The parade included many transgender people."

 

Problematic: "transgendered"
Preferred: "transgender"

 

The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. For example, it is grammatically incorrect to turn transgender into a participle, as it is an adjective, not a verb, and only verbs can be used as participles by adding an "-ed" suffix.

 

Problematic: "sex change," "pre-operative," "post-operative"
Preferred: "transition"

 

Referring to a sex change operation, or using terms such as pre- or post-operative, inaccurately suggests that one must have surgery in order to transition. Avoid overemphasizing surgery when discussing transgender people or the process of transition.

[kieyra]

There was some conversation earlier in the thread about Rachel's reaction to learning she was barren by design. I think it *is* about motherhood for her. In season one she was definitely shown as being jealous of Sarah's motherhood. It was subtle but it was there.

Regarding this season in general: I started worrying early on, when they started going for dramatic sequences like the magical car t-boning rather than keeping a tight rein on their narrative. Unfortunately my fears have gotten worse. The season is all over the place and I think we know not all of this is getting wrapped up. I think they ran out of story, they can only introduce so many more evil/not evil scientists and monitors, and so many more clones--both are already getting played out. So they're just going for the big "WTF" moments and over-complicating things as a result. Sadly, they're on a similar trajectory to Vampire Diaries, which had a solid first season but then kept trying to find bigger bad guys and crazier twists and abandoned all logic.

...and, unpopular opinion, but I don't understand why they brought Helena back. I know she is a fan favorite now for some reason, I guess because she likes food and has an adorable nickname for Sarah?--but to me she's still a psycho serial killer who killed their birth mother. The fact that they brought her back made it pretty clear to me that they were going to pander to the audience on a lot of things, and they have, and it's not doing the show any favors.

I do hope they get a season 3, and that they slow down a bit and bring the central clones back together.

Edited June 10, 2014 by kieyra

[millahnna]

There was some conversation earlier in the thread about Rachel's reaction to learning she was barren by design. I think it *is* about motherhood for her. In season one she was definitely shown as being jealous of Sarah's motherhood. It was subtle but it was there.

 

 

I was open to the idea but doubting it when I first saw the episode but in re-watching it after Brunn's weekly rank the clones thing (where he talks about her having those tapes and memories of a loving childhood) I'm kind of coming around to this.  I still think her anger is so epic because of a bunch of contributing motivations but I've become willing to add that one into the list.

[Valny]

I'd put my money on they don't kill off Cosima, I just don't feel it in my clone bones they'd do it. Sure,they might come close or fake us out,(like Helena) but I just don't see it happening, so right now, I am not all that worried for her. Now if this had been a Joss Whedon show.... that's a different story.

I will admit, after seeing her coughing up the blood and shaking on the floor,it was concerning...and that's after I'd seen the ep8 promo a bunch of times,so I knew it was coming. The kicker was hearing that loud,ominous background music along with what we saw,then it became a bit more of a.. "hey..would they really go there?" for me. 

And just a side note- I got another friend at work to watch. She emailed me today and said over the weekend she watched season one and got through part of this season. I was so happy to hear that. So that makes seven people at work I hooked in. Mwahaha!

Here is her side of the email:

"I watched Orphan Black yesterday.  Completed 1st season, which was phenomenal, burned right thru it.  I was home in bed watching it all day yesterday, even though it was gorgeous out.  Yup, I was called a loser, and I am on episode 6 of season 2.  Season 2 isn’t as twisted as season 1, but still good.   Thanks for the referral." 

 

My work here is done. So gratifying!    Still trying to get another friend to watch. She a little tougher to crack,but I'm not giving up. 
 

[Catch 22]

Undoubtedly I'm in the minority but I really enjoyed this episode. One reason is because, to me, Orphan Black isn't simply a sci-fi show about cloning but it's also multi-layered in that it addresses many issues we currently struggle with in the real world. While the fundamental one seems to be the right to own one's body, others include individual autonomy, reproductive rights and human sexuality.

 

Each of these issues is addressed in almost every single episode, not really ever in a heavy handed way but sometimes in ways so subtle I don't even realize it at first.  This show can certainly stir up alot of different emotions at any given time, though. It can make me laugh, make me angry, make me question but most importantly, it makes me think.

 

Regarding Tony, I like him. From his pushing buttons to his testing boundaries. There was no drama with regard to his being a clone because he'd already worked out all of his identity issues long ago. He's secure in who he is and unlike Alison, who once said "I'm not even a real person", Tony is simply, "I'm Tony and you're not". His hair, whether on his head or on his face, is fine with me because everyone looks different and that's only a part of what makes us uniquely individual. Even Tony's kissing Felix didn't bother me as it seems to have some people but then, in my opinion, it was just Tony testing boundaries, again. Trying to push those buttons to see what would happen. And the result wasn't shock or revulsion on Felix's part, as he simply said, he was quite aware of sexual fluidity. Don't misunderstand, I do believe Felix had some confusing/conflicting feelings but tried to  disguise it with his nonchalance. Watching this episode a couple of times helped me to get beyond the initial wow factor and just try and figure out Tony's purpose.

 

I found it to be two-fold, actually. On one hand he was there to deliver a message to Beth, which, in turn, caused Sarah to ask if Paul was really a good guy afterall. The fact that Sammy, Tony's monitor and Paul were both in the military does make me wonder if they are aware of some connection to Project Leda since that seems to also be related to the military from what's been said. (Separate from their possibly knowing each other from Afghanistan) Also, could the "keep the faith" part be a reference to the Prolethians? The other purpose, I think, was to provide a showcase for Felix, the clever sister kisser, where we saw, to even more effect, that he's not easily thrown by anyone or anything. He was equal to the game regardless of what Tony tried to shock him with or how he tried to do it. I do think that there was more to it than simply that, though. And I just have to say how much I loved and laughed at Felix's "Holy Tilda Swinton!"

 

I kept thinking Tatiana Maslany was using some kind of voice modulator in order to achieve a lower register. Is that possible?

I must say, too, what a noble man Scott turned out to be.

 

Lastly, I just want to know if it's mandatory that each monitor be sexually involved with their individual clone? Because every single one is either a husband, boyfriend, girlfriend or fuck buddy. I just don't understand how that can be dictated since there is no way to predict or guarantee that each clone will even be attracted to that person much less want to be intimate with them.

[shapeshifter]

...[Tony] was there to deliver a message to Beth, which, in turn, caused Sarah to ask if Paul was really a good guy afterall..

Lastly, I just want to know if it's mandatory that each monitor be sexually involved with their individual clone? Because every single one is either a husband, boyfriend, girlfriend or fuck buddy. I just don't understand how that can be dictated since there is no way to predict or guarantee that each clone will even be attracted to that person much less want to be intimate with them.

I recall Sarah discovering (I think from a suicide note or suicide voice mail left by Beth?) that Beth really loved Paul, but he didn't love her. I think it's realistic that the monitors that were not already involved with their subjects (perhaps Donnie) were advised to become physically intimate with them to further the success of the mission. Assuming Paul really is a good guy, I can see why he would not want to let Beth believe he was really in love with her, because at some point he would have to break off the relationship, and he knew her well enough to predict that this would devastate her. But then Sarah comes on to him in a non-emotional way and he feels free to let himself feel all the warm feelings towards her that he had been holding back. If this is correct, sadly, it means he was never really in love with Sarah, who he doesn't really know, but with Beth.

So, Tony's brief message does potentially hold a lot of information.

[Lola]

I think they reached Tatiana's limit with Tony - it was the first time I didn't "believe" but I was thoroughly amused by the Tony-Felix massive awkwardness that I didn't mind too much.

I have been loving this season. I was a bit skeptical early on when Sarah was "separated from the herd" by going on the run with Kira, but I'm cool now.

Speaking of Kira, she usually annoys me but her reaction when Sarah came downstairs to see her and Ethan reading was awesome. It was like "OMG mooooom you're interrupting" Haha.

Rachel still intrigues me so much. Love her. Her world is coming apart but she's still holding it together. Just.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Lola

[Enigma X]

My biggest problem with Tony was not TM's acting but the costuming. The costuming was not convincing, therefore I never forgot that I was watching TM in the role. I do think the personality was separate enough from Sarah's to make it convincing if the costuming was convincing. 

 

I also have the UO that Helena should have stayed dead. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ITA - when Kira rolled her eyes and threw her arms up in exasperation, it was one of the first times she really acted her age, which I loved.

 

I just want to know if it's mandatory that each monitor be sexually involved with their individual clone? Because every single one is either a husband, boyfriend, girlfriend or fuck buddy. I just don't understand how that can be dictated since there is no way to predict or guarantee that each clone will even be attracted to that person much less want to be intimate with them.

I don't think Sammy was romantically or sexually involved with Tony. I'm still undecided whether Sammy was his monitor though. He was ex-military and knew Paul and I think it would be too much of a coincidence for him not to be a monitor based on that. Leekie never mentioned Tony to Cosima, which would have initially made me think he was an off the radar clone like Sarah if this were S1, but now that we know they kept Jennifer a secret, I'm more inclined to believe that Dyad knew about Tony (especially since someone with really nice shoes killed Sammy which makes me think it was Dyad, not the Prolethians) and Sammy was his monitor. Maybe they were after Sammy because he went rogue and was trying to keep Tony away from Dyad?

[Carrie Ann]

Tony said something like what was in his pants made no difference to Sammy, but he said it in a way that indicated that they were together, so I do think their relationship was romantic/sexual.

 

A point of clarification regarding a possible Sammy/Paul connection: Paul was not technically in the military when he was in Afghanistan. He was working for a defense contractor.

 

This was my least favorite episode of the season, because there were more things that didn't work for me than things that did. I don't think Tony worked, and I agree that it was the wardrobe/makeup that let it down there. Toward the end, he started to feel more like a real character and less like Sarah with a goatee taped to her chin, but it still wasn't entirely successful. Assuming we see him again someday, I hope they'll take another run at the hair/makeup.

 

I felt like there was a lot of time wasted in the Cosima story. The gaming scene and the getting high scene were both just sort of pleasant but not necessary. With the seasons being so short, I just want every minute to count. I did love the moment where she told Scott that she was the subject--that is the type of thing this show does so well. Surprising and effective little moments that make you realize how invested you are in all of this. I just love when any of the clones makes any new connection and ally.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Tony said something like what was in his pants made no difference to Sammy, but he said it in a way that indicated that they were together, so I do think their relationship was romantic/sexual.

I thought Tony meant that Sammy accepted Tony as he was and didn't care that he was transgender/didn't treat him differently than when he was Antoinette. I thought they were just friends/partners in crime without any romantic or sexual relationship. Hey, Tony, can you call Felix next week and clarify this for us?

[lulee]

The Tony plotline and character felt too shoe-horned in and rushed. Maybe it wasn't practical to carry him over to the next episode, but it just felt like too much plot development, character development and clone lore for those scenes, like there was a big checklist of things to reveal or show and not enough time in them.

 

Forgive me if this has been mentioned -- I've read this ep topic in spurts so maybe I missed it, but was it explained why Sarah said Helena was fine or thought she was fine? Did she assume she was still in jail? She'd asked Art to check, but why would she even think that Helena being in jail would turn out fine knowing Helena?

[Carrie Ann]

I thought Tony meant that Sammy accepted Tony as he was and didn't care that he was transgender/didn't treat him differently than when he was Antoinette. I thought they were just friends/partners in crime without any romantic or sexual relationship. Hey, Tony, can you call Felix next week and clarify this for us?

You're right--I checked again, and Tony specifically calls Sammy his "buddy" twice. Also explains why he was making moves on Felix so soon after Sammy's death. BTW, those scenes are still super awkward.

[Frisco]

blown away by this show and clone Tony.  save Cosima  wish the season was longer

[beeble]

Maraleia - thank you for that post. We are all on different learning curves when it comes to knowing appropriate terminology.

[halgia]

I felt like there was a lot of time wasted in the Cosima story. The gaming scene and the getting high scene were both just sort of pleasant but not necessary. With the seasons being so short, I just want every minute to count.

Those were my favorite parts of the episode. This show spends so much time rushing through plot, it's nice to slow down for a minute and get some reminders that Cosima is awesome and that Cophine have some serious chemistry, and it made Cosima's seizure or whatever hit much harder, I think.

[LovinLife]

 

was it explained why Sarah said Helena was fine or thought she was fine? Did she assume she was still in jail? She'd asked Art to check, but why would she even think that Helena being in jail would turn out fine knowing Helena?

No and that is bothering me.  Sarah and Helena seemed to be growing closer and it just seems odd that there is no mention of her over several days except by little Kira.  It just doesn't seem like Sarah would just abandon her if she had any idea that she was back with the Proletheans. Maybe she just thinks she was released from Jail and took off?  But I can't figure out why Sarah says to Kira "she asks about you all the time".  I don't know if we are supposed to think from that comment that Sarah has talked to Helena?  Does she have a clone phone?  I think Kira with her super powers would sense Sarah was making that up. 

 

Anyways it's one of the reasons I was initially annoyed with the episode because I wanted some intel on Helena but I'm over it now.  I do applaud the show for the dialogue they have created on the internet with Tony.  It has been really interesting reading the reactions and the conversations this has sparked.   They do like to stretch the boundaries, which in the end is what makes the show so brilliant.  

 

Sometimes it feels messy but there's a method to their madness I think. Just don't wear out Tatiana in the process please.   Now I am just looking forward to Episode 9 and what is in store for everyone.  I kind of feel like Rachel and Paul have known each other longer then the audience has seen them together.  She has made some comments that make it seem like they may be working together.  Maybe Rachel is trying to take down the Neolutionist too from the inside out?  Too bad this is only a 10 episode show.  

[rozen]

I thought introducing a new clone was a good way to nudge the plot back open again, after a series of plot twists and turns have narrowed many of the mysteries of the show. At the beginning we had Neolithians, DYAD, Art & co, Mrs. S and her crew, followed by the Prolitheans, all playing against each other with lots of unknown players. Now we have a much smaller main cast that we've seen extensively, almost all of whom have interacted with one another in some capacity. It's a lot less unpredictable now than when Helena was slinking around with a sniper rifle and we didn't know which side Art was really on. This episode was such a great slap to the face, "Oh you thought you had figured out what all the moving parts were? NOT!"

 

I dunno, I thought Tony and Felix were interesting contrasts in androgyny that fell a little bit in opposite directions. The clones already span such a wide range of personalities, it would difficult no matter what to introduce a new clone without their seeming similar to another one. I rewatched the first season and found myself thinking that if the German clone hadn't gotten shot first thing, she would basically be a drunk version of Helena. Honestly, only a clone as shady as Sarah would have stuck around with Felix and Art to hear the truth.

 

"Ohai, let's give strange and conflictiing information on how we know your contact. Ohai please stay right here with my partner while I run off to do 'something' that I can't tell you. Ohai, drink this beer I brought from an undisclosed location and then tell me all your secrets." On any other show they'd be murderers or something.

 

Duncan creeps me out, I hope they don't let Kira anywhere near him ever again. He's waited 20 years to see his dear baby girl again, but callously scoffs at the notion of her birthing a family of her own? I don't think Duncan's twisted version of family love would have been any better for Rachel than what she got with Leekie. 

 

Oh Cosima, perfectly encapsulating the nerd girl struggle everywhere. Girlfriend runs the nerdcore of nerd labs, but those clowns didn't even consider asking if she wanted to play.

Edited June 11, 2014 by rozen

[Catch 22]

Shapeshifter, I honestly don't believe that Paul has ever been in love with Sarah unless it was a "love at first sight" kind of thing and neither one of them seem the type. As to whether or not he was in love with Beth, we know she surely didn't think so (as you stated) and Paul has never seemed to mourn or show any sense of loss with regard to her death. So, I'm hard pressed to believe he ever loved her, which, unfortunately, means she was correct in her perceptions.

 

Carrie Ann, thank you for making that clarification about Paul working for a defense contractor. I keep forgetting that point and it's important not to.

 

Regarding Tony and Sammy, it did seem to me that there had been some kind of sexual relationship going on, as Tony said Sammy didn't "care what was between [his] legs". That kind of statement implies something a little more intimate than simply being buddies. To me, if you were only friends there would be no reason to comment on whether or not he cared about what is or was there.

 

Additionally, if Sammy was indeed Tony's monitor and they weren't sexually involved he would be the first. Every clone that we know of right now has had or is having an intimate relationship with her monitor. Excluding Sarah and Helena, of course, because they have no monitors. Rachel/Daniel, Beth/Paul, Alison/Donnie, Cosima/Delphine, Jennifer/Monitor boyfriend.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Catch 22

[lulee]

I interpreted Tony's between-the-legs comments as only implying that Sammy never cared about Tony being transgender and that they were best friends and not implying more than that.

As for Paul, I think he does care about/ love? Sarah. In S1 when he has to report to Olivier after he and Sarah had had sex, he said that she was different, that the sex with "Beth" was passionate. I think he never fully connected with Beth. It was years, 2 years?, of playing the good boyfriend but never loving her. We know from Alison, Art, and Cosima that Beth's personality was very different than Sarah's and that Paul told SarahasBeth that he liked some of the differences. Their connection late in S1: at Felix's, Paul bringing gifts for Kira, etc. seemed very genuine.

So while I think Sarah ought to be cautious of GhostPaul when he reappears, I think the message from Tony was meant to reveal his true intentions, and it's very possible that he is a bad-turned-good-turned-bad-turned-good guy who wants to help Sarah.

Edited June 12, 2014 by lulee

[jaybear1701]

Those were my favorite parts of the episode. This show spends so much time rushing through plot, it's nice to slow down for a minute.

I agree. This reminds me of Maureen Ryan's review of the first part of the season, in which she argued that the show's strength lies in its "characters and tangled, meaty relationships" rather than its plot. It's the quiet, character moments that I really love from both seasons, whether it's Sarah and Helena making shadow puppets in the camping tent, Cosima and Delphine getting high and then threatening each other/confessing their love (lol), Donnie apologizing to Alison, etc. Those are what make me care about the characters, and if I care about the characters I can (generally) accept wherever the crazy plot may go.

[Ceeg]

Additionally, if Sammy was indeed Tony's monitor and they weren't sexually involved he would be the first. Every clone that we know of right now has had or is having an intimate relationship with her monitor. Excluding Sarah and Helena, of course, because they have no monitors. Rachel/Daniel, Beth/Paul, Alison/Donnie, Cosima/Delphine, Jennifer/Monitor boyfriend.

I'm not sure that Delphine was supposed to get romantically involved with Cosima, because Leekie seemed surprised when Delphine told him that Cosima made a pass at her ("Really?").

 

But also, I think it's safe to assume that the clones have been monitored their entire lives (excluding Sarah and Helena, obviously). And I don't think it's possible that they've been monitored by sexual partners their entire lives, since they were children at one point. But when the clones become adults, they form long-lasting relationships with partners, so I guess it's easier, from a monitoring standpoint, to recruit their significant other (or in Beth's case, hire someone to become her SO) rather than rely on a friend or family member. It was necessary for Delphine to become Cosima's monitor because Cosima moved from California to Minnesota, leaving behind all her friends and family. 

I didn't get the vibe from Tony that he and Sammy were romantically involved. I would hope he'd be a little more broken up over his death if that were the case.

[GinnyMars]

Just watched this. Boy, Tony sure gave a new meaning to the term "brother sestra", didn't he?!

[maraleia]

Maraleia - thank you for that post. We are all on different learning curves when it comes to knowing appropriate terminology.

You're welcome. It's my pleasure.

[Canada]

I didn't find the Tony character at all believable.  He looked like Sarah with her hair pulled back and a badly drawn on beard.  I'm disappointed that they brought in this random clone and it was so badly done.

[Sarah-phile]

I didn't find the Tony character at all believable. He looked like Sarah with her hair pulled back and a badly drawn on beard. I'm disappointed that they brought in this random clone and it was so badly done.

I agree. My initial thought was, why is Sarah wearing a beard? And it took me a while to pick up that he was a transgender man. I don't mind that they brought in a transgender clone -- I think that's kind of interesting and in keeping with the clone variation, but he seemed too much like Sarah.

I also would find it hard to believe that Paul was in on the clone project from the beginning. He seemed genuinely surprised to learn about it in season one.

I really hope they don't kill off Cosima! I like her, although I kind of wish she would dump Delphine.

If Sarah was a failure because she is fertile, why is Kira the prize? That doesn't make sense to me.

I liked the whole Rachel freak out scene. I also like how the show made it ambiguous -- was it real or was it in her head? There's no way to tell.

Donnie in bed with Alison's mini bottles of booze was priceless!

Edited June 13, 2014 by Sarah-phile

[Sarah-phile]

Two interesting parallels from last season: First, the scene where Rachel trashes her office reminded me of the scene where Sarah trashes Felix's apartment after learning that Art has stolen the money she withdrew from Beth's bank account. Second, the revealing of Tony's "package" reminded me in a weird way of Olivier and his tail. Tony presumably has a much more compelling reason for his enhancement.

Oh, and I also was totally icked out by the Felix-Tony sister kiss. I was glad when Felix stopped it.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

If Sarah was a failure because she is fertile, why is Kira the prize?

If they're trying to artificially direct human evolution, at some point they'd want to see how the genes they manipulated got passed down to the next generation. May as well take advantage of the "failure" to get some information ahead of schedule. Even if they don't ever intend to create a fertile clone, how the genes got passed along would probably tell them something.

[lulee]

If they're trying to artificially direct human evolution, at some point they'd want to see how the genes they manipulated got passed down to the next generation. May as well take advantage of the "failure" to get some information ahead of schedule. Even if they don't ever intend to create a fertile clone, how the genes got passed along would probably tell them something.

Agreed. Kira's creation was out of their control - so not intended or initially desired, but Ethan Duncan and Dyad would take her existence as a happy accident ripe for study. Which makes me very afraid for her future. I'm unspoiled, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Kira ends the season staying at the Dyad center after some kind of hand-forcing on Sarah.

[DrSpaceman]

Also with Helena and her healing powers,its not just the gunshot wounds. We've seen her cut herself, and not just a little high school teen "OH, I am making little cuts for attention", (not dimishing those with that problem, I have a niece who did it, but this was clearly different by Helena) but MULTIPLE MAJOR self inflicted gashes with bleeding, then she heals and yes, there are scars, but they completely heal on their own with no stitches and no treatment pretty quickly. She goes any times from a bloody mess to stopped bleeding with scars quicker than humanly possible

To me it seems obvious she heals quicker than most people, much quicker.

Also fully recovering from a gunshot wound to the chest even in two weeks if no major organs damaged.......no, that seems way too fast. Maybe in an actual hospital you could be recovered enough to function and let out, but not fully recovered with no treatment or just with whatever treatment the Promethians were giving, which seemed to be little. She walked out of the hospital within days of that happening, not realistic

[GuiltyPleasures]

When Kira was in the hospital after being hurt running into traffic, and one of the medical staff said, "there's something you need to see" to another about Kira's x-rays or whatever it was, do we know what was so interesting?

 

I'm going to assume it was never revealed, because I don't remember.  Which means next to nothing; there are lots of things I don't remember.  But!  Is it possible that Kira's organs could be reversed like Helena's and that's what so interested the doctor(s)?

 

If "we" already know the answer and I missed it, then never mind.  I don't know what the implications would be if Kira had the same switch-a-roo as Helena.  Just a random thought.

 

Something else has been bothering me, and that's the hair of both Rachel and Tony.  The hair/makeup people have done believable jobs with Ally and Helena, so why can't they do the same with Rachel and Tony?  For all the efforts the production people put into making Rachel's appearance expensively stylish, why does her wig look like it came from a department store?  And there's nothing remotely realistic about Tony's facial hair.

 

I'm wondering if they are both supposed to be fake, and both characters disguised themselves for some reason.  I'm having a hard time chalking up Rachel's and Tony's hair as sloppy production.

[Valny]

Was Dylan Bruce unavailable due to other commitments re: Paul's recent absences on the show?

 

 Not sure if he did, but I have no problem with this! :) Though I'm guessing he'll be around for the remaining eps.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Valny

[hardy har]

I don't watch it, but I thought I read somewhere that Dylan Bruce is on Arrow too and he was shooting both shows at the same time, so that would account for his absence. As a character, I do find Paul more interesting this year, but I'm not all that upset about not seeing DB and his various stages of Blue Steel all up on my TV screen.

RE: Tony

I actually have come around on TM's portrayal. I sort of thought she was just doing a variation on Sarah, but upon rewatch I found them pretty different. They're personalities are similar, but Tony's walk, posture, voice cadence and general physicality were definitely different to me. I still maintain that the timing of introducing him so late in the season and his hair were the problem. I'm guessing the show will check back with him in some small capacity in the future, but I hope they figure out his hair. Hell, they could just throw it back in a ponytail or something. I know plenty of guys who do that. I had no issue with that facial hair. It's my understanding that trying to grow facial hair is sort or a nightmare for trans men.

Something I noticed on the rewatch......did Sammy know Tony was a clone? Did he know there were others? Before he dies he says something about Beth to Tony along the lines of "she knew you were-" and then he stops and just tells tony to find Beth and deliver the message. I'm wondering if the "suits" who went after them were government agents or something.

RE: rapid healing of Helena and Kira

Characters tend to recover remarkably well in scifi and action pieces so I think that plays a part, but Helena and Kira's healing has been remarked on by other characters, so I imagine it will come into play at some point.

I still can't decide about whether or not to trust Duncan. Well, I actually don't trust him, but I'm torn about whether or not he's gonna set his sights on Kira for some weird experimental purpose. I was actually wondering if The Clone Trio all wind up being held at DYAD by the end of the season, Cosima is there already. Sarah may wind up there because of Kira and Alison has already signed a contract with them plus she is helping her husband cover up the accidental murder of the director.

Then there's Helena, who's fertile, who DYAD would want in their facilities as well.

Edited June 14, 2014 by hardy har

[LovinLife]

When Kira was in the hospital after being hurt running into traffic, and one of the medical staff said, "there's something you need to see" to another about Kira's x-rays or whatever it was, do we know what was so interesting?

 

I'm going to assume it was never revealed, because I don't remember.  Which means next to nothing; there are lots of things I don't remember.  But!  Is it possible that Kira's organs could be reversed like Helena's and that's what so interested the doctor(s)?

 

If "we" already know the answer and I missed it, then never mind.  I don't know what the implications would be if Kira had the same switch-a-roo as Helena.  Just a random thought.

 

Something else has been bothering me, and that's the hair of both Rachel and Tony.  The hair/makeup people have done believable jobs with Ally and Helena, so why can't they do the same with Rachel and Tony?  For all the efforts the production people put into making Rachel's appearance expensively stylish, why does her wig look like it came from a department store?  And there's nothing remotely realistic about Tony's facial hair.

 

I'm wondering if they are both supposed to be fake, and both characters disguised themselves for some reason.  I'm having a hard time chalking up Rachel's and Tony's hair as sloppy production.

 

They never went into any details about what they saw on the Ultra Sound that was so interesting when Kira had her accident.  I was having the same thought that maybe her organs are reversed like Helena and that is why she survived the accident without serious injury.  If that is the case I think implication could be that she has a twin somewhere too.

 

I didn't like the Helena or Rachel hair either at first but I got used to them because they became part of the character.  For me I'm guessing if Tony gets more air time next season (please let there be a next season) then I think I would probably get used to it.  But the facial hair I'm not sure about, it looked like a hairball glued on.  That needs to be done better. 

[Sarah-phile]

They never went into any details about what they saw on the Ultra Sound that was so interesting when Kira had her accident.  I was having the same thought that maybe her organs are reversed like Helena and that is why she survived the accident without serious injury.  

It seems that if that's all it was, why didn't they tell Sarah?  Actually, that was something that I found a little strange at the time, that they didn't tell Sarah what was so unique about her daughter.  Also, I'm not sure why having your organs reversed would make you more likely to survive an auto accident.  I'm thinking maybe what was so startling was simply that she didn't have any broken bones.  I don't know, but I guess we'll find out eventually ... I do agree that Kira for sure, and likely Helena too, have better-than-normal healing properties.  Also, what about Sarah?  Daniel slices into her neck with a razor and she never goes to the hospital and apparently heals without stitches or anything.  What happened there?  Maybe Helena stitched her up??  

[LovinLife]

  Also, what about Sarah?  Daniel slices into her neck with a razor and she never goes to the hospital and apparently heals without stitches or anything.  What happened there?  Maybe Helena stitched her up??  

 

Ha, Ha!! Yes she's pretty hardy herself.  She started the day with a head injury from a car crash and then got clocked by Daniel before the whole razor incident and seemed to bounce back pretty well after the shower rescue by Helena.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I'm thinking maybe what was so startling was simply that she didn't have any broken bones.

I'm sure they get accident victims all of the time who "got lucky". Startling would be seeing broken bones already well on the mend.

[Meedis]

I've just got done marathoning season 2 of Orphan Black.     Overall I'm enjoying the season though it doesn't seem as good as the first.    With that said I know Paul is the main male eye candy of the show...but I was loving me some drunken shirtless Donnie this episode.    Yummy.

 

As for Tony, at first I thought it was Sarah with a bad hair-do and mustache.    And I was totally screaming and covering my eyes when he went towards kissing Felix.