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The GCEh?C: Canadian Episodes (Spoilers for Non-Canadians)


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1 hour ago, Diane M said:

Will Kyle be his COO?  I hope so....he earned it.  If it hadn't been for his snooping, the truth might never have come out.  I really have grown to like the actor playing Kyle.

I didn’t like him at all at first, but now I do. IMO he’s the best one since Blake Hood.

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2 hours ago, drtslim said:

Great performances by ED and PB.  I really liked Ashley's demeanor during the reveal.  I wished that Ashley had been more like this throughout the last few years.  I do think that Jack has been kind of unfair to her in the past regarding her place at Jabot; but her acting as morally outraged and always prefacing her power plays as doing what was best for the company came off as really insincere and tiresome.  I would've appreciated it much more if she just owned that she wanted to be CEO plain and simple. 

 

Interesting. I think you're right. Ashley became insufferable for me because she always acted so morally superior to Jack (and others). And she was so Daddy this and Daddy that and my FAMILY while repeatedly going against her family to support Victor over the years. Her mental breakdowns were undermining as well. They could have left those behind with a tougher Ashley who just said fuck it and went after power, like Jack. Dina alluded to their childhood history of being competitive with each other and it would have worked. Instead the character became defined by the moral high horse she continually rode around on, her ridiculous attachment to Victor, and her tendency to lose her mind.

I'm glad to see ED and PB are getting some good scenes to play out with her exit story. But I still call bullshit. I just don't buy that Ashley would have done THIS to Jack. To sit by while Jack smashed his car into a tree because he was drunk and calling his dealer for drugs?? And all to pay him back because he was an ass to her for a matter of a few weeks??? Nah. It's not like he was at her for being "the bastard" for the past 35 years. He kept her paternity secret; he never told John; he never treated her differently than Traci. She was always a full Abbott to Jack. It was only this out-of-the-clear-blue-sky random Blood Abbott Clause and the contrived hollering at each other (for like two weeks) that preceded it. This would not imo warrant her going nuclear on him. 

But I'll still tune in to watch these scenes. The Abbotts (the real ones -- PB/TL, ED, and BM -- are Y&R for me). 

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The other part of this story that takes it way past believability for me is Ashley didn’t just manipulate DNA tests (x2), she manipulated her mother’s Alzheimer’s-ridden brain. She must have been feeding this idea to Dina constantly for her to have been repeating that John is not Jack’s father. Then she used Abby to push it along.

All to be CEO.

Please.

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Thanks to Phylly the Jabot elevators are so sticky that the cable could snap and they wouldn't fall.

Thanks to Phylly the Jabot elevators are so sticky that the cable could snap and they wouldn't fall.

Didn't Jack initially have the TBA clause to keep Phyl from making a run at him during the divorce mess?

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4 hours ago, miamama said:

The other part of this story that takes it way past believability for me is Ashley didn’t just manipulate DNA tests (x2), she manipulated her mother’s Alzheimer’s-ridden brain. She must have been feeding this idea to Dina constantly for her to have been repeating that John is not Jack’s father. Then she used Abby to push it along.

All to be CEO.

Please.

 

1 hour ago, Gloriole33 said:

It also means that Ashley is the one who altered the Dina film.  It also means that she lied when she told Abby the thumb drive she burned in the fireplace was the only copy. 

Yes, there is so much that has to be retconned to make this story true.  We have to now believe that she lied to her own daughter and set her up regarding the reveal.  Now we know that Ash must have engineered the reveal at the screening.  And, as @miamama notes, she must have coached her mother to relate a story that was not true.  All of this is ridiculous, and nothing that Ashley would do.  I don't buy it for a second.

But, ED is making the most of it and is actually making this exit storyline believable, because she is a pro.

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4 hours ago, bannana said:

Now we know that Ash must have engineered the reveal at the screening. 

Right! She not only wanted to be CEO and punish Jack for BAC (which yes @crowswork Jack created after the Phyllis betrayal/divorce and which the board approved!) she wanted to PUBLICLY humiliate and devastate him in what was the last lovely night the family would have in honour of THEIR MOTHER with a documentary her daughter created. 

It’s SOOOOO BAD.

Once again the VETS will spin gold out of shit. 

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Spoiler

I just saw a spoiler for (I believe) the week of 10/22 on SoapCentral that Kyle and Dina are talking and Dina tells him about a safe in John's office long hidden. It doesn't say whether it's in the house or at Jabot, but Kyle goes there and sleuths out a hidden panel and finds long-hidden information put there by John (presumably). It'll probably turn out that John "Abbott" wasn't an Abbott, but the biological son of someone else, but adopted/raised with the Abbott moniker. Wouldn't surprise me.

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So I agree they retconned and shoe horned to maximize ED's exit but I bought the storyline in the end... as a quick fix squeeze goes, they worked it through.  If you were Ashley, with a lifetime of pain and suffering flowing from the Brent Davis thing, the Blood Abbott clause was the straw the broke the camel's back.    She went for the throat and her reasons were logical if morally flawed.  If you were Jack, you can't forgive her for what she did and why would you?  It was the ultimate.  On the other hand, Ashley reminded us, Jack is no Victor Newman but his decades of casual selfishness had consequences.   He may have turned into Aunt Jack in later years but he was Terry Lester's Jack to begin with and did a lot of bad shit back in the days when bad shit was bad shit that could actually occur, not Victor epic viewer draining bad shit that came of MAB or JFP or any EP or HW of that ilk.  No, I loved it.  Soap writing is more often than not flawed and haphazard and inconsistent so this didn't bug me.  It delivered some real excitement.    Show will probably get cancelled before ED ever darkens the door again so that's good bye to Ashley.  Great exit.  She may have left as a cruel bitch but at least she had her marbles and she was mad as hell.  Good way to go. 

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I could inject that scene of Jack throwing the chair directly into my veins. As retcons go, the DNA sabotage made for decent enough TV. The acting has been solid. It’s almost as if you don’t need two dirty, cheating trash bags pushed to the forefront and engaging in repellent acts of copulation between romcomcom hijinks to make good soap. Who knew?

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Okay, Show, regarding the Blood Abbott clause, pick a lane.  First Jack says it was about Phyllis.

Then Ashley says it was about her.

A couple of days ago, Ashley says it was about Phyllis.

Now we're back to Ashley saying it was about her.

Was her Newman Enterprises detour just her idea of an extreme vacation?

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Damn, I hope Peter Bergman stretched before tossing that chair. Even if it was more on the lightweight side, he was twisting and tossing.

You know what makes this Ashley vs Jack so cool? Zero to do with Victor machinations. Ashley did this herself for herself. But the hypocrisy comes in when she accuses Jack of being selfish when Ashley wrought a lot of destruction and put her entire family - not just Jack- through hell and upended their lives. But a fed up Ashley getting her licks in on both Jack and Dina after all this time isn't so outrageous. And there are some very complex emotions at play when the parent who made you an outsider in your own family and abandoned you to that family and flits in and out of your life and is a larger than life woman who you desperately love and hate is suddenly humanize by a debilitating illness where all your righteous anger is petty against the new reality and yet the anger is still there but now has to be swallowed with no outlet.

Ashley tried to channel her darker emotions into the one goal that mattered- getting Jabot and proving herself an Abbott. Thing is she showed herself better suited to being a Newman. Pairing this Ashley with Victor would've been interesting.

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2 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Damn, I hope Peter Bergman stretched before tossing that chair. Even if it was more on the lightweight side, he was twisting and tossing.

You know what makes this Ashley vs Jack so cool? Zero to do with Victor machinations. Ashley did this herself for herself. But the hypocrisy comes in when she accuses Jack of being selfish when Ashley wrought a lot of destruction and put her entire family - not just Jack- through hell and upended their lives. But a fed up Ashley getting her licks in on both Jack and Dina after all this time isn't so outrageous. And there are some very complex emotions at play when the parent who made you an outsider in your own family and abandoned you to that family and flits in and out of your life and is a larger than life woman who you desperately love and hate is suddenly humanize by a debilitating illness where all your righteous anger is petty against the new reality and yet the anger is still there but now has to be swallowed with no outlet.

Ashley tried to channel her darker emotions into the one goal that mattered- getting Jabot and proving herself an Abbott. Thing is she showed herself better suited to being a Newman. Pairing this Ashley with Victor would've been interesting.

That's a great dissection of this, really great.

Wonderful post, Tobinalbers!

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Quote

 

Damn, I hope Peter Bergman stretched before tossing that chair. Even if it was more on the lightweight side, he was twisting and tossing.

You know what makes this Ashley vs Jack so cool? Zero to do with Victor machinations. Ashley did this herself for herself. But the hypocrisy comes in when she accuses Jack of being selfish when Ashley wrought a lot of destruction and put her entire family - not just Jack- through hell and upended their lives. But a fed up Ashley getting her licks in on both Jack and Dina after all this time isn't so outrageous. And there are some very complex emotions at play when the parent who made you an outsider in your own family and abandoned you to that family and flits in and out of your life and is a larger than life woman who you desperately love and hate is suddenly humanize by a debilitating illness where all your righteous anger is petty against the new reality and yet the anger is still there but now has to be swallowed with no outlet.

Ashley tried to channel her darker emotions into the one goal that mattered- getting Jabot and proving herself an Abbott. Thing is she showed herself better suited to being a Newman. Pairing this Ashley with Victor would've been interesting.

 

Definitely great observations.  I'll give the writers credit: even though Ashley being behind this whole thing is obviously a retcon to facilitate ED's exit, her motivations for doing what she did were clearly explained and they don't contradict what we've seen onscreen.  Great performances again by ED and PB.  I can completely understand Jack's feelings of hurt, betrayal, shock, disappointment, and anger.  What Ashley did to him and their family was extremely cold and cruel.  John had been Jack's hero and role model his whole life, and losing that as well as the position as CEO (which was his birthright) were extremely damaging to his sense of self and well-being; however, we can see the pain and bitter resentment that lead to Ashley's actions.  I had completely forgotten about Jack plotting with Victoria to frame Ashley for corporate espionage while she was at Newman (in a position of greater power than Jack was willing to give her at Jabot), after invoking the Blood Abbott Clause to block her bid for CEO of Jabot.  I can understand how that could push someone to strike back.  

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I think you really hit the nail on the head, Tobin. Ashley’s scheme wasn’t about Victor; this story was completely contained within the Abbott family. Even though Ashley’s role in the DNA plot is a retcon, if you look back at everything that unfolded  from her act of revenge, it really works impressively well. Billy was elevated to a position he wasn’t ready for, with Summer arriving to push him back into gambling. Buttbiscuit, now CEO, had assets and funds to burn, making his fall from grace even harder. Jack weathered an intense emotional crisis, Kyle got closer to his father and became more likable, and Jack ended up at Dark Horse, working with his former stepson. My god, people, just imagine if Mal Young could write good shit like this on purpose!

I can’t even be mad at Ashley. Jack is my favorite character, and Ashley did him dirty, but her motivations make an actual kind of sense. Not having Victor involved and looming over Ashley’s psyche is refreshing. The only thing I would disagree with Tobin on is that I don’t want to see any version of Ashley with Victor. I don’t think Victor’s ego could stand anyone else delivering the ultimate dagger to Jack’s back, and this Ashley is too strong for him.

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11 hours ago, NinjaPenguins said:

My god, people, just imagine if Mal Young could write good shit like this on purpose!

Ha! Ain't that the truth.

10 hours ago, basiltherat said:

As bad as the things Ashley did (and Jack did bad, too) the worse thing was using a cure for cancer (nonexistent) as her "justification" for the payments to Andrew.  Now THAT is karma you don't want biting you in the ass!

Ashley had breast cancer after Abby was born so yeah don't be putting that bad juju out there for it to return! And it was so sad to see how gullible Traci, Abby, and Lauren were swallowing that lie, ready to sign up for a batch of the product. Ashley really should've felt like poop in that moment.

 

11 hours ago, NinjaPenguins said:

I don’t think Victor’s ego could stand anyone else delivering the ultimate dagger to Jack’s back, and this Ashley is too strong for him.

And therein lies the drama for that couple with Ashley realizing Victor never loved her, just loved her vulnerable and as a weapon against her family

Edited by TobinAlbers
Took out extra Traci, added Lauren :)
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8 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

 

 

And therein lies the drama for that couple with Ashley realizing Victor never loved her, just loved her vulnerable and as a weapon against her family

 

Just like he loves Drinki or Sick Nikki way more than sober Nikki. 

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23 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

And therein lies the drama for that couple with Ashley realizing Victor never loved her, just loved her vulnerable and as a weapon against her family

14 hours ago, crowsworks said:

Just like he loves Drinki or Sick Nikki way more than sober Nikki. 

Victor likes them vulnerable & "controllable". Makes him feel stronger that way than being with a mentally/emotionally healthy human being.

"You got that?"  ;)

Edited by RedRockRosie
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1 hour ago, RedRockRosie said:

Victor likes them vulnerable & "controllable". Makes him feel stronger that way than being with a mentally/emotionally healthy human being.

"You got that?"  ;)

No wonder he married Sharon when she was spiraling out of control when she was still not diagnosed with being bi-polar.

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I know we are supposed to feel for Ashley after she revealed her reasons, but I just don't.  Even after the previouslies and her review of all the bad things Jack has ever done, I still think she is a heartless bitch, because it really was not necessary for her to go these lengths.  Jack had apologized some time ago and even offered to get rid of the BAC to prove it.  But here's what happened on Friday's ep.

After Ash reveals that John is Jack's father after all, Abby is in disbelief and begs her mother to tell everyone she didn't do this.  Jack cannot believe it, Kyle says that even if she altered the paternity test, Dina's memories were the basis of everything that transpired.  Ash rather coolly says that Dina's been confused about a lot of things lately.  Jack is stunned that she would take advantage of her mother's illness, and she smugly says: you didn't think I had it in me, did you.  Abby, upset, asks her mother why she would do this and she replies that she did it for Abby and everyone that Jack ever made feel like a second class citizen.  She says she was sick of the BAC and so she got rid of it, so that everyone that is not a blood Abbott can stake a claim for what is rightfully theirs.  Well, Ash, you are lying to your daughter right now, because you didn't do it to get rid of the clause, you did it to get the CEO job and to make Jack feel like you did.  Ash is now emotional saying how she did this for Abby and her children and Abby is stunned saying, you think I wanted this?  Jack is now that he has his father back.

At Vic's office, Drinki and Vic are comparing the notes they have received, plus Phyllis'.  They know the first digit is 2, third is 0, and the final three are 000.  They have 24 hours to pay but they are missing one digit.  They realize Sharon has the missing digit.  Meanwhile Sharon is at home drowning under a pile of laundry and unopened mail because of that whole wedding fiasco being a big distraction for her.

Traci comforts Jack, and then emotionally demands to know how Ash could have done this to Jack.  Ash says she did what she had to do.  Traci is crying and says that she defended Ash to Jack, to Billy, and the whole time she was lying to her.  Yup.  Kyle tells his aunt Ash that she is sick and twisted.  Ash asks Abby to tell her that she understands and Abby says she doesn't understand and Jack agrees, saying that no one understands how she could do this, but she is going to explain it to him, now!  He dismisses everyone else.  A livid Jack tells his sister that she better start begging for forgiveness.  She says she doesn't need his forgiveness because everything she did was justified.  Kyle, Lauren, Phyllis, Abby, Andrew and Traci are outside Ash's office.  Traci says that she had never seen her brother so broken, all these months thinking John was not his father, and that there were times that she didn't think he would survive it.  And over nothing.  Kyles says it wasn't over nothing, it was for Ash's sick pleasure, she loved seeing Jack destroyed.  Lauren reveals that Ash had told her Fenmore's was her number one priority, concluding that Ash knew this was going to come out and she needed Lauren on her side.  Phyllis says that Ash is hypocritical and self-righteous.  Abby gets upset and tells everyone to stop it.  She says she doesn't even know her mom anymore.

Jack surmises that Prick put Ash up to this.  She scoffs, saying he is predictable and gloats that she thought about this all on her own and she executed it without help from anyone else.  He asks her why.  She is surprised he has to ask her that.  She says that last Christmas he gave her a gift; a gift that was too big to be wrapped.  The Blood Abbott Clause.  The gift that keeps on giving.  Causing her pain, reminding her every day that she couldn't be CEO.  He says he apologized for that and she lashes out saying that he was never sorry.  He had wanted her to know that she had no claim to the family name and her father's legacy.  He made her feel like a fake, a fraud and an interloper.  He says he wanted to hold on to what was rightfully his.  She replies that she knows, and he would use anything to get it, including the fact that Dina cheated on John all those years ago, so that he could pronounce himself the anointed one and sit in that chair.  She tells him that his father would be disgusted by him and how he pushed his daughter out of his company.  She says even that was not good enough, and that after she went to Newman he conspired with Vic to frame her for espionage.  He explains that he wanted her back at Jabot, he wanted them to work together.  She is furious now and she pushes him and says he wanted her to work under him so that he could flaunt his genetic superiority over her.  Wow, this chick is really hung up on this.  She says that was her tipping point, she was tired of him running roughshod over her life.  She decided to fight back and take everything from him, and make him feel the way she did.  Crying, she says she was going to be as cold and calculating as he was when he did it to her.  Jack looks stunned by everything she is saying.

Sharon is hugging Nick's shirt and she gets a call from Drinki, who explains about the notes and the 24 hour deadline.  Sharon says she hasn't gotten a note that she knows of.  Then Sharon finds the note in her mail.

Andrew tries to make his escape. Kyle, Phyllis and Traci confront him.  He says he didn't even know Jack.  He says they can blame him all they want but someone doesn't just wake up one day and decide to blow up their family.  

Ash explains how she planted the seed with Dina that she had one more affair.  We get a flash back to Ash with Dina, telling her that she was aching for love, that John was never there.  She urges her mother to tell Abby the story of her affair right after she married John.  Ash tells Jack that for once her mother's infidelity worked in her favour.  A stunned Jack asks, who are you?  She replies that she is not his sister, he made that clear.  He says he doesn't recognize any part of her.  He says that Dina was devastated when it was revealed that Jack was not John's son.  He says that Ash humiliated her in front of all those people at that screening.  She didn't deserve that and Ash let her suffer for months more, including Jack lashing out at her.  Ash says: so you think I should feel bad.  He says she should feel something.  She says she feels a lot of things: anger, rage, justified.  But she does not feel bad.

Kyle and Abby want to interrupt Jack and Ash, but Traci says no.  Lauren leaves, and Phyllis gets a text from the coven and she leaves too.

The coven is at Sharon's house and Phyllis arrives, annoyed that she had to leave something important for them.  Drinki snarks:  oh, breaking up another happy couple?  Sharon remarks that cheating isn't the mood lifter it used to be and Phyllis snipes that she should ask Nick.  Vic tells them to stop.  They look at the fourth note and now know that the blackmailer wants to $250,000 wired to an account.  They discuss whether to pay the blackmailer.

Jack tells Ash that she doesn't have an ounce of compassion for their mother.  He says she made mistakes and Ash says, is that what I am, I'm a mistake?  Oh, for crying out loud, grow up Ashley.  Ash continues to tell the back story, that Dina told Abby the story about the affair, that Abby came to her mother, and that Ash told her to hold off until they get samples to do a DNA test.  Abby thought the samples were from Jack and Traci's hair brushes.  We have another flash back of Ash lying to her daughter and then snipping her own split ends and putting them in the Traci envelope!  As a forensic expert from watching TV I am pretty sure you need a hair follicle for DNA testing, no?  Ash tells Jack that she was going to break the news to him in private until he decided to hold the screening, and she decided to do a little grandstanding of her own.  She had a copy of Dina's confession and she edited it into Charlie's movie.  She gleefully says it was risky but it was worth it when she saw the look on Jack's face when he realized John wasn't his father.  She said she knew that Charlie and Abby would weather the storm, and Jack says she didn't care who her plan hurt as long as it worked.  Ash reveals that Kyle knew about Dina's confession long before Jack did, saying that Kyle is definitely his son.

The coven goes back and forth on whether or not to pay, while sniping at each other.

Jack angrily asks Ash at what point she decided to swap any shred of moral decency for the CEO chair, and then he forcefully wheels the chair from around the desk and pushes it toward her.  She says they can compare moral records, and lists his transgressions: sleeping with his father's wife, cheating on Patti on her wedding day, causing her to go insane and kill Colleen, taking Jabot public and almost killing his father as a result.  She says this is payback for every horrible thing he has ever done to her and everyone else.  She says that when he said wanted another DNA test she knew that she had to get more help.  We flash back to her meeting with Andrew to contract him to tamper with the results.  This part makes no sense.  Why didn't Ash pay him with her own funds?  Jack asks her if she ever thought about what this cost him.  She say that she thought he would have one drunken night to get over losing his father.  WTF?  She hasn't gotten over it after decades!!!  Jack exclaims that it was like a death to him.  His own.  He talks about the pills and says that part of her plan didn't work, he didn't take the pills.  She rather glibly says she didn't want to kill him, just to hurt him.  He challenges her, saying that she knew exactly what would happen, that it would destroy him.  He says her plan was working perfectly and then she put Billy in as CEO.  Ash says Billy was supposed to get rid of Jack's vindictive BAC.  She says he was not as cooperative as she had hoped, he was power hungry.  She says that she hoped he would bottom out before he took the company down, and he did.  Jack says, wow, another piece of collateral damage in her ongoing war with him.  Ash says it broke her heart to see Billy give into his demons, but they both know that he was never equipped to run Jabot.  She says she had to protect the family legacy.  He tells her to stop pretending some kind of noble motivation, she wanted revenge plain and simple.  Yup.  She agrees she wanted revenge for him using her paternity against her.  When she found out John was not her father she almost lost her mind, but it didn't stop Jack from using the BAC against her.  She wanted him to feel like he was not a part of his own family.  He says: mission accomplished; I don't see my sister standing in front of me, I see a cold, cruel, bitter, heartless monster, who I wouldn't want to know much less be related to.

Kyle, Abby and Traci are now at the Abbott manse. Abby is struggling with how her mom could do this.  She goes over her interviews with Dina in that very room, and the pain Dina was in, talking about the affair.  And that her mom did that to Dina, and to Jack.  Kyle says he was hurt too.  He feels sorry for himself, and throws Abby's words back in her face to when she called him heartless and manipulative.  He says nothing he has done comes close to the sick, twisted scam her mother pulled.  Abby apologizes to Kyle.  He says he never felt part of the family and didn't understand what it meant until it was taken away from Jack.  Traci says thank god it is all a lie.  Kyle says he will never forgive his Aunt Ash.

Ash tells Jack to go celebrate being John Abbott's son.  She says she still has a company to run.  She opens the blinds with the remote.  Jack says he didn't take her father away from her, Dina did, and she says he used it against her.  He says it was business, and she shrieks that it was personal.  He says, and for that he was supposed to go to his grave not knowing John was his father.  She says she was going to tell him the truth at Christmas, because last Christmas he blew up her life and she was going to give him back his this year.  She smugly says:  Merry Christmas, Jackie.

The coven cannot agree on what to do.  Phyllis harangues them and says they cannot leave until they decide what to do.  They surmise that the blackmailer doesn't actually know what they did.  Vic convinces her mom that they shouldn't pay and she agrees.  Sharon agrees because she doesn't have a choice.

Traci tells Kyle that when Colleen died she was angry at Patti, Prick and God.  She says she feels the loss every day.  If Colleen came back her loss would be gone.  She tells Kyle he has a second chance to connect with  his father, and he shouldn't waste it being angry at Ash.  Abby says she wants to help Kyle.  Traci says they have to come together as a family, and Abby says she doesn't know what she will say to her mom.  Traci says she cannot understand why Ash would do this.

Jack tells Ash that she was always so quick to judge Dina.  He says in spite of everything Dina did, she would never have done anything this cold and vicious.  He tells Ash that she lacks human decency.  She angrily asks him if it was decent when he took her family away from her, when he told her she couldn't lead her father's company because their mother cheated on him.  She says every time he made her feel "less than" it has brought them to this very moment.  She says he is to blame for this and John Abbott would agree with her.  She says John would see her side and forgive her.  Crying, she says if he wants to be like John, he will forgive her too.  Wait, what?  After all of Ashley's rationalizations, she now wants Jack to forgive her?  I don't think you get to play the blame game, be smug and gleefully defend blowing up someone's life and then expect forgiveness. Jack says, does she think John would forgive her, and she says yes.  Jack yells, does she think he would understand, that she would still be his favourite, his "Beauty"?  He angrily says that if he saw her now he would be disgusted.  He grabs the letter opener and goes to the door, opens it and removes her nameplate and tosses it on the floor.  He yells at her, saying she has disgraced herself and everything their father stood for, his love, his basic kindness, his office, his work, his legacy, his chair, everything he cared about.  Ash is blubbering.  Jack picks up the chair and throws it through the plate glass window into reception.  Ashley screams and then looks shocked.  Jack looks at Ash with contempt.  He looks spent.  BTW, I got goosebumps when that chair went through the window.  PB was fantastic.

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On ‎2018‎-‎10‎-‎13 at 4:13 AM, drtslim said:

Definitely great observations.  I'll give the writers credit: even though Ashley being behind this whole thing is obviously a retcon to facilitate ED's exit, her motivations for doing what she did were clearly explained and they don't contradict what we've seen onscreen.  Great performances again by ED and PB.  I can completely understand Jack's feelings of hurt, betrayal, shock, disappointment, and anger.  What Ashley did to him and their family was extremely cold and cruel.  John had been Jack's hero and role model his whole life, and losing that as well as the position as CEO (which was his birthright) were extremely damaging to his sense of self and well-being; however, we can see the pain and bitter resentment that lead to Ashley's actions.  I had completely forgotten about Jack plotting with Victoria to frame Ashley for corporate espionage while she was at Newman (in a position of greater power than Jack was willing to give her at Jabot), after invoking the Blood Abbott Clause to block her bid for CEO of Jabot.  I can understand how that could push someone to strike back.  

I am not sure about that.  I think the retcon is problematic, but ED and PB made it work.  But if you listen to everything Ash said, yeah no.  She gave so many excuses, and sounded like a teenager about her angst and her feeling not part of the family.  What they showed us is that she enjoyed sticking it to Jack and using Dina.  

I don't think this is the Ashley we have known for decades.

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57 minutes ago, bannana said:

I am not sure about that.  I think the retcon is problematic, but ED and PB made it work.  But if you listen to everything Ash said, yeah no.  She gave so many excuses, and sounded like a teenager about her angst and her feeling not part of the family.  What they showed us is that she enjoyed sticking it to Jack and using Dina.  

I don't think this is the Ashley we have known for decades.

I agree.  I'm going to watch this again, but Ashley's angst was so overwrought and her justifications so broad - what is she, the Robin Hood of Revenge? - that it had me wondering if she hasn't snapped into some sort of derangement.  She conveniently forgot, too, that Jack first brought up the Blood Abbott clause at a board meeting where Ashley was trying to give Jack the bums rush out of the CEO spot with some pretty underhanded and spiteful crap of her own.

The performances by both were superb but the motivation, not so much.

One last thing, will somebody superglue Phyllis' mouth shut?  All she should ever say to any Abbott other than ButtBiscuit is , "I'm sorry".  Other than that zip it and fall down an elevator shaft.

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Yes that’s how I’d describe it. Two pros making the most of bad writing.

Mostly ED because Jack’s reaction was straightforward. But she was huh? “You took my family away!” Wut? When? 

She was acting as though she JUST learned about her paternity. It’s been 35 years of real time. She’s in her 50s. Jack kept her secret and loved her totally all this time. And she played dirty as fuck with Jack, calling secret board meetings to stage a coup. He didn’t actually take anything from her. He was defending his job. And of course the BAC was cruel but it just wouldn’t warrant this reaction- esp as @bannana says Jack apologized and offered to rescind it.

And that’s the thing. She not only took away Jack’s father she took his job at the same time. Jabot is his identity in a way it never was for her. For her to think he’d be a bit sad and just see how she felt??? What. The. Fuck? And he deserves this because he did bad shit to OTHER PEOPLE? Whaaaaat? Also he DID NOT DRIVE PATTI TO KILL COLLEEN!! He cheated on her. She SHOT HIM. They split and she had a boyfriend or two and left town fine. Just stop it show.

But it broke Ashley’s heart to see Billy suffer?????? Embezzling cheating trash also using BAC Billy?????

The stupidest was her crying and saying “you have to forgive me” at the end.

Made no sense. She should have remained defiant. That would have been a bit interesting.

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Oh I gotta add. This 55 year old woman who once got pregnant by a married man AND THEN years later stole sperm from that still married man to impregnate herself and then lie about the child’s paternity is trash talking her mother who had an affair in the the 1950s when she was in her 20s and lied about her daughter’s paternity, which resulted in that daughter being loved and reared by a wonderful man.

Lol. It’s goofy.

Kudos to ED for acting her heart out.

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On 10/12/2018 at 3:50 AM, bannana said:

Yes, there is so much that has to be retconned to make this story true.  We have to now believe that she lied to her own daughter and set her up regarding the reveal.  Now we know that Ash must have engineered the reveal at the screening.  And, as @miamama notes, she must have coached her mother to relate a story that was not true. 

Did Ashley necessarily have to have done this for the story to work, though?  Dina could have said all this on her own, which got the wheels turning in Ashley's bitter mind, resulting in her using this to orchestrate the fake DNA test.

ETA: Well, shut my mouth, I just read the recap for your Friday (my Monday) show.  Dina isn't doing so great with her Alzheimers, why would Ashley trust that Dina would have kept that story up?

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12 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

So, is Ghost John Abbott going to start appearing again? I noticed he never came to see Jack while he thought John wasn't his father.

If he does reappear, he'll probably just appear to Phyllis so he can tell her she's the best thing that's ever happened to the Abbott family.  

She'll be gazing into the bottomless twin pits of ButtBiscuit's nostrils and there he'll be, in stereo.....

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14 minutes ago, boes said:

If he does reappear, he'll probably just appear to Phyllis so he can tell her she's the best thing that's ever happened to the Abbott family.  

She'll be gazing into the bottomless twin pits of ButtBiscuit's nostrils and there he'll be, in stereo.....

Fuckin' Mal. I hope he gets a giant boil on his ass.

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I just thought of something else.  Remember the scene in Dina's movie where young Jack leaves his friends to go play with young Ash.  She sat there watching that scene with ice water flowing through her veins because she knew what was coming.

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2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

So, is Ghost John Abbott going to start appearing again? I noticed he never came to see Jack while he thought John wasn't his father.

Ghost John was always horrible to Jack anyway. 

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Your recaps have been fantastic, bannana. Thank-you!

I am surprised at how little Ashley gives a fuck. I thought she might pull back a bit and realize she took her vengeance a tad too far. Using her mother’s dementia was absolutely reprehensible. It’s like she responded to Jack putting sugar in her gas tank and keying her car with firebombing Jack’s garage. I get her motivation, but damn. 

I’ve never been a big Ashley fan, and I haven’t always paid a lot of attention to her, especially when she slummed with Victor. How long has she been obsessed with being Jabot CEO? I feel like this is a recent-ish thing. One of things I always did like about Ash is that she was a scientist. Bidness people are a dime a dozen on soaps.

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Quote

Traci tells Ash that she owes her an apology.  She had no idea how much pain Ash was in, she should have paid more attention, supported Ash and admonished Jack.  

See, this right here is why I am not a fan of Traci. FFS, lady grow a fucking spine.

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Bannana, fabulous recap, as always.  I'm in awe at how incredible your recall is, and your skill at conveying it is just exquisite.  You are one helluva good writer.

So ButtBiscuit is still defaulting to blaming others for his own bad choices, I see.  Nobody, not Kyle, not Ashley, not the twin demons who live in those Hellmouths other people call a nose, nobody but Nostrildumbass himself is to blame for gambling, stealing and then lying his flat ass off about it all.

I guess his Step 4, "Take a fearless moral inventory" for ButtBiscuit means doing that for everyone but himself.  

I hope somebody fills his nose with poker chips while he sleeps.

Edited by boes
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3 hours ago, NinjaPenguins said:

Your recaps have been fantastic, bannana. Thank-you!

I am surprised at how little Ashley gives a fuck. I thought she might pull back a bit and realize she took her vengeance a tad too far. Using her mother’s dementia was absolutely reprehensible. It’s like she responded to Jack putting sugar in her gas tank and keying her car with firebombing Jack’s garage. I get her motivation, but damn. 

I’ve never been a big Ashley fan, and I haven’t always paid a lot of attention to her, especially when she slummed with Victor. How long has she been obsessed with being Jabot CEO? I feel like this is a recent-ish thing. One of things I always did like about Ash is that she was a scientist. Bidness people are a dime a dozen on soaps.

Thank you!

They referenced it today, that Ash was blocked from being CEO once before, and that was when she moved to NYC and lived with Traci.  Jack has tried to keep her in the lab, and she didn't like that.  But I agree with you, being the CEO is not the greatest job.  Being in the lab is all about research, science and creativity.  She was basically the CEO of the lab.  I think this latest conflict between her and Jack and the BAC is just really ridiculous.  She says she did all this so she could be  CEO.  All they had to do was vote out the BAC as a Board.  Then she could have competed against Jack fair and square.  What she really wanted was to make Jack feel pain.

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3 hours ago, NinjaPenguins said:

I am surprised at how little Ashley gives a fuck.

To me there was one key line today that to the character justifies everything she's done (much of which was reprehensible)... paraphrasing:  he took my deepest wound, stuck a knife in it and twisted it.  

Whether she is reading it right or not, she believes it. The rest of the dialogue illuminates thirty or forty years of resentment - albeit a bit retconned or possibly just tamped down and waiting to erupt.  I can't believe the writing is this credible and cogent - especially for a retcon (I read on another site - and had forgotten - at one point in the ancient past Jack (Terry) blackmailed Ashley into resigning as CEO when John appointed her once over Jack, with the threat he would reveal her secret.)  I find this a really weird and amazing turn for soap writing because they're actually tying Ashley's actions - again not defending - but the origin of them in something almost genuinely moral.   While she has acted immorally, she feels she is justified by assessing Jack on a right or wrong basis and finding him wrong and wrong and wrong again.  Again today she started listing Jack's sins and failings over the years - and realistically shagging his father's wife was almost enough to get him a life ban, but she doesn't stop there.  I keep realizing what a dick he was before he became Aunt Jack.  

It's surreal for me to watch scripts unfold that tie to a moral condemnation of an action that in real life would in fact be a relationship breaker for a lot of people.  Soaps for decades have been built on horrific moral (often criminal) behaviour that goes completely without reaction, after it advances the plot.  So this turn is confusing me deeply.

And a nit to pick... John didn't occupy that office, did he?   I thought John's 'office' all those years was the boardroom?  I remember him always in the boardroom, which I found kinda lame.  So Dina and Kyle going panelling diving doesn't make a lot of sense. 

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Watching yesterday's episode and then this one again, I do think Ashley has cracked.  Her litany of Jack's sins, both real and some imagined - blaming him for Colleen's death?, really??? - bullshit to the nth squared.  

Ashley has often been terse with Jack and IMO he's been more supportive of her than she has of him - her tepid response to Victor's kidnapping and doppleganger would be Exhibit A.  And on her side, what he pulled recently when she was at Newman was very crappy on his part.

But through it all, more often than not, they've been supportive of each other, at least in their personal lives.  Neither one of them can claim the moral high ground when it comes to feeling entitled to Jabot, they've been playing that beat for decades.  Ashley's paternity is almost a 40 year old wound and I don't care how deep it was, it should have stopped bleeding this deeply long ago.  And if it hasn't, then that IMO is a sign that things just aren't right inside Ashley.  Her rage, her calculation, her icy dismissal of how any of this affects the others she claims to love and her constant refrain of "Daddy" this and "Daddy" that, along with how brittle she's been for quite some time as well as her general unpleasantness both at Jabot and while at Newman seems to me to indicate that she's either had a break or is just inches away from one.

Those two quarrel, they fight, they resent each other but they don't hate each other, never have and this is one retread, rewrite, whatever, too far for me.  I'll take Ashley having a mental break, I'll take her having even the dreadful brain tumor but nope I don't buy this b.s. no matter how well acted it is.

Now if they were ready to bury ButtBiscuit nose first in a pit filled with his own self-serving justifications, THAT would make perfect sense!

ETA - I think Traci thinks she's cracked, too.  Traci "apologizing" to Ashley seemed to me to be Traci trying to defuse somebody about to blow, and the looks she was giving her throughout the rest of that conversation seemed to be more wary and worried than even angry or sad about it all.  And Abby was having none of it.  MO did a good job today, too, IMO.  

I think Ashley is ready for a one way ticket to Happy Dale and with any luck, under the personal care of the lovely Dr. Neville.

Edited by boes
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@boes, I agree.  There is something so off with this entire storyline.  Yes, one could make the argument that Jack was the entitled one, the heir apparent.  Yup, that happens in families.  I am the youngest child in one of those families so I get that.  And maybe the heir apparent isn't the greatest, but it happens that way.

Jack was clearly picked by his dad to run Jabot, and Ashley is pissed that as the daughter, she was overlooked.  Yes, that happened.  For thousands of fucking years, Ash.  To many, many women.  My mother inherited nothing from her father whilst her younger brother inherited everything.  It is a shitty world.  So Ash is willing to go nuclear on her family to ensure that she becomes CEO.  

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