Future of Movie Stars: Who Will Shine? Who Will Fade Away?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't understand why these studios don't continue to try and cast unknowns. Look what it did for the X-Men when they cast Hugh Jackman! He wasn't established or a has been looking for a comeback. AND he wasn't their first choice! Wasn't Hemsworth also essentially unknown?

[Kel Varnsen]

9 hours ago, absnow54 said:

To be fair, although RDJ is a two time Oscar nominee with a decade spanning career, casting pre-2008 RDJ to launch the Marvel franchise was a gamble at the time. Marvel's always played it safe when it comes to supporting roles, but I would consider their original tent pole casting of Downey, Evans, and Hemsworth to be riskier. Downey was on his third or fourth comeback, and Evans and Hemsworth (Hemsworth especially) were still pretty obscure. Now, however, Marvel seems to snatch up all the darlings of the previous award season.

Pratt was basically the fat guy from Parks and Rec when he was first cast as Starlord wasn't he? I would say that was a pretty big risk.

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't understand why these studios don't continue to try and cast unknowns. Look what it did for the X-Men when they cast Hugh Jackman! He wasn't established or a has been looking for a comeback. AND he wasn't their first choice! Wasn't Hemsworth also essentially unknown?

I get it. X-men back in the day was a huge gamble and I am not sure there were a lot of name actors who wanted to do it. People joke about Halle Berry as Storm but they couldn't afford Angela Basset. The budget was only 75 million. With budgets today topping 200 million i can sort of see why they wouldn't want to take too many risks and hire people with fanbases. That said Tom Holland was pretty unknown, as was the girl who played X-23 in Logan.

Plus for me i would rather that studios take a risk on stories and characters and cast them with known actors. Back i the day when I was reading comics I am pretty sure Deadpool and Black Panther were the lowest selling comics marvel put out (maybe Thunderbolts too, when is that movie happening?).

Edited July 25, 2017 by Kel Varnsen

[HunterHunted]

8 hours ago, absnow54 said:

To be fair, although RDJ is a two time Oscar nominee with a decade spanning career, casting pre-2008 RDJ to launch the Marvel franchise was a gamble at the time. Marvel's always played it safe when it comes to supporting roles, but I would consider their original tent pole casting of Downey, Evans, and Hemsworth to be riskier. Downey was on his third or fourth comeback, and Evans and Hemsworth (Hemsworth especially) were still pretty obscure. Now, however, Marvel seems to snatch up all the darlings of the previous award season.

RDJ was such a gamble. He could only do The Singing Detective because Mel Gibson put up the insurance bond. His work was well regarded, but he was still a bit of an insurance nightmare and no one was sure that he could open the movie. RDJ made less than Terrence Howard for Iron Man. Howard had his own reputation for being difficult too. Hemsworth was a legitimate nobody. The role that put him on the map was playing George Kirk in the first 5 minutes of Star Trek. Evans was less risky, but he was already associated with a bunch of underwhelming or underperforming action movies. Marvel got all of them for next to nothing. Although, Howard made $2 million for Iron Man, while RDJ made $500,000. I remember reading that Samuel L. Jackson was especially livid about how little they were paying him, Ruffalo, and Hemsworth. However, Marvel watches every last dollar that they spend because of Superman Returns.

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

The reference was in regard to Brandon sort of getting ostracized and blamed for Superman Returns.  He was brought up as an opposite example of how Marvel seems to pick "mostly" established actors which has sort of helped them avoid a "Superman Returns" situation.

Superman Returns isn't any worse than the worst Marvel movies Iron Man 2, the Thor movies (Hemsworth is fine, but Marvel made an inspired choice when they cast Hiddleston), and Doctor Strange. Brandon Routh was perfectly fine in the role. The movie failed because for very weird reasons, it had to cover the debt of other earlier attempts to bring Superman to the screen with established actors. Superman Returns was expected to cover the costs of Kevin Smith's, Tim Burton and Nick Cage's, J.J. Abrams', Brett Ratner's, and McG's separate attempts to adapt Superman. Unfortunately it meant that Superman Returns started about $100 million in debt before they had filmed a single second of the movie. Additionally, Superman Returns didn't have the luxury of being released during a superhero movie boom. Even the more garbage entries are getting sequels.

[Kel Varnsen]

2 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

 

Superman Returns isn't any worse than the worst Marvel movies Iron Man 2, the Thor movies (Hemsworth is fine, but Marvel made an inspired choice when they cast Hiddleston), and Doctor Strange. Brandon Routh was perfectly fine in the role. The movie failed because for very weird reasons, it had to cover the debt of other earlier attempts to bring Superman to the screen with established actors. Superman Returns was expected to cover the costs of Kevin Smith's, Tim Burton and Nick Cage's, J.J. Abrams', Brett Ratner's, and McG's separate attempts to adapt Superman. Unfortunately it meant that Superman Returns started about $100 million in debt before they had filmed a single second of the movie. Additionally, Superman Returns didn't have the luxury of being released during a superhero movie boom. Even the more garbage entries are getting sequels.

It is kind of funny that Superman Returns actually made more money than Batman Begins. But returns had so much baggage from all those other failed productions that it had almost no chance for success.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Kel Varnsen said:

It is kind of funny that Superman Returns actually made more money than Batman Begins. But returns had so much baggage from all those other failed productions that it had almost no chance for success.

But Batman Begins was a much, much, much better movie. Story-wise, (even if was an origin story), plot, EVERYTHING. Sure Burton's movies were a success, but it came after wha that hack, Schumacher did with Forever, and UGH Batman and Robin.  So that franchise also had some baggage as well.  Superman Returns was just one big pile of a mess, with a bitter Lois, played by an actress who had NO CLUE about the character and the worst Lois ever, and the ridonkulousness and letdown of Spacey's Lex.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't understand why these studios don't continue to try and cast unknowns. Look what it did for the X-Men when they cast Hugh Jackman! He wasn't established or a has been looking for a comeback. AND he wasn't their first choice! Wasn't Hemsworth also essentially unknown?

Jackman was their second choice. It was supposed to be Dougray Scott, but his filming on Mission Impossible 2 went long because Cruise's filming for Eyes Wide Shut went super long. Eyes Wide Shut was supposed to film for 6 months. It filmed for a year and a half. Hugh Jackman is Wolverine because of Stanley Kubrick.

However, I'm still pissed that they went with Halle Berry instead of Angela Bassett. Or as you said, an unknown. Or any other Black actress who is a peer of either woman except Stacey Dash, Tyra Banks, or maybe Whitney Houston. 

11 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But Batman Begins was a much, much, much better movie. Story-wise, (even if was an origin story), plot, EVERYTHING. Sure Burton's movies were a success, but it came after wha that hack, Schumacher did with Forever, and UGH Batman and Robin.  So that franchise also had some baggage as well.  Superman Returns was just one big pile of a mess, with a bitter Lois, played by an actress who had NO CLUE about the character and the worst Lois ever, and the ridonkulousness and letdown of Spacey's Lex.

Begins is a better movie, but lots of crappy movies get sequels if the box office supported it. The Percy Jackson movies. Technically, the box office supported Superman Returns getting a sequel. However, Superman Returns had a ton of bad debt to clear for other movies.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

49 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Pratt was basically the fat guy from Parks and Rec when he was first cast as Starlord wasn't he? I would say that was a pretty big risk.

Actually, Everwood was before Parks and Recreation by seven years, but otherwise you're right. Bright Abbott, Pratt's character, was a maybe-not-so-smart jock type who started out being a jerk to one of the main characters before being revealed as having any depth at all.

 

45 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

the Thor movies (Hemsworth is fine, but Marvel made an inspired choice when they cast Hiddleston)

Eh, I'm not sure about Hiddleston. He may well be a better actor than Hemsworth, but he's done about as much of note outside of Marvel. I thought he was great in the Hank Williams biopic and Only Lovers Left Alive, but neither of those made any money as far as I'm aware.

[HunterHunted]

5 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Actually, Everwood was before Parks and Recreation by seven years, but otherwise you're right. Bright Abbott, Pratt's character, was a maybe-not-so-smart jock type who started out being a jerk to one of the main characters before being revealed as having any depth at all.

 

Eh, I'm not sure about Hiddleston. He may well be a better actor than Hemsworth, but he's done about as much of note outside of Marvel. I thought he was great in the Hank Williams biopic and Only Lovers Left Alive, but neither of those made any money as far as I'm aware.

In my head, Chris Pratt's name is Bright Abbott Andy Dwyer Burt Macklin FBI.

I think Hiddleston is the better actor. Have you seen The Night Manager?

To a certain extent, I think Marvel has been very smart casting actors who are essentially just character and indie actors. It means that their other work won't be so commercially successful that they can demand astronomical salaries from Marvel for future appearances.

[methodwriter85]

On another note...I wonder if Mandy Moore will manage to leverage the surprise success of This Is Us and the even more surprising success of 47 Meters Down (thoroughly a B-movie but it made back its budget like 8x) into a movie career resurgence. I can see her playing a lot of mothers now.

[Silver Raven]

She plays JK Simmons's "Mom" in flashbacks in the upcoming movie I'm Not Here. And she's in the upcoming The Darkest Minds, though I don't know what character she's playing.

[tongueincheek]

I really love Mandy Moore's career trajectory -- it's been up, down, all over the place, but she has been working consistently since her teen, pop star days and it's finally paying off. 

[aradia22]

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To a certain extent, I think Marvel has been very smart casting actors who are essentially just character and indie actors. It means that their other work won't be so commercially successful that they can demand astronomical salaries from Marvel for future appearances.

I wonder what Chris Pratt's bargaining power is post Jurassic World and Passengers. Though, maybe he's locked into a contract for Guardians so it doesn't matter.

Quote

On another note...I wonder if Mandy Moore will manage to leverage the surprise success of This Is Us and the even more surprising success of 47 Meters Down (thoroughly a B-movie but it made back its budget like 8x) into a movie career resurgence. I can see her playing a lot of mothers now.

Quote

I really love Mandy Moore's career trajectory -- it's been up, down, all over the place, but she has been working consistently since her teen, pop star days and it's finally paying off. 

 

Eh. I was never a fan. Even if it was all... contrived, for lack of a better word... there was something purer to me about Christina and Britney going big and sometimes failing. In music or acting, I've always found Mandy Moore to be the blandest kind of wishy washy inoffensive mediocrity. Also, I hated her in Tangled. The closest I got to liking something she's done is her Amanda Leigh album which I would still just call... fine. 

[dusang]

7 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Eh. I was never a fan. Even if it was all... contrived, for lack of a better word... there was something purer to me about Christina and Britney going big and sometimes failing. In music or acting, I've always found Mandy Moore to be the blandest kind of wishy washy inoffensive mediocrity. Also, I hated her in Tangled. The closest I got to liking something she's done is her Amanda Leigh album which I would still just call... fine. 

Have you seen Saved!?

[absnow54]

Mandy Moore has definitely played the long game. She was never as big as Christina and Brittany, and I think that helped her throughout her formative years because she never had to deal with the same amount of media attention and pressure that they did. I don't recall her ever having a rebellious phase either, and when she made the jump to acting she started in supporting roles (basically she always played the mean girl villain) before breaking out with A Walk to Remember. She's definitely had plenty of flops, but none of them were high profile enough to really do any damage. That said, I don't think she's a good enough actress to break into super stardom. She's got this gaspy/exasperated style of acting that's kind of limited, although she's had some great moments on This Is Us and may continue to grow as an actress on the show.

[amaranta]

4 hours ago, dusang said:

Have you seen Saved!?

Really like that movie;  I thought Moore was a good villain.  But I that whole cast rose to the occasion, including Macaulay Culkin. 

[JBC344]

Saved is definitely hands down the best thing Mandy Moore has ever done.  She really is great in the movie.  I'm surprised she didn't break out to play more characters like in Saved.  I've always liked Mandy but do agree she tends to be pretty bland when playing "good girl" roles.

[Silver Raven]

Let's not forget that Mandy Moore was the voice of Rapunzel in Tangled.  That's probably the biggest thing she's done.

[Pink ranger]

This took me by surprise.

Tom Pelphrey from Iron Fist and Matthew Morrison from Glee have just stated filming a movie in China that has Chinese writers, director and production company attached. I can't see any Hollywood involvement, at least in these credits. 

 

These two are mainly known for their tv work and pursuing film work is a logical next step for them but it's interesting that they chose to go this direction instead of staying in their home country. 

[Lugal]

9 hours ago, dusang said:

Have you seen Saved!?

And American Dreamz

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Let's not forget that Mandy Moore was the voice of Rapunzel in Tangled.  That's probably the biggest thing she's done.

She is also voices the main character on two Disney channel shows (Tangled and Sheriff Callie-yes i do have small kids) so she also has that sweet sweet disney voice over money coming in regularly.

[Scarlett45]

@aradia22 Degrassi is an excellent venue to train young actors. I'm kinda sad we haven't had more breakout stars (where is Charlotte Arnold?!!) of course there is always Drake aka Aubrey Graham. 

 

My mom was watching the random movie "Butter" the other day, and I thought "I wonder why Alicia Silverstone never made it big?!!" It surprised me the biggest stars from Clueless are Donald Faison and Paul Rudd. Alicia had all American white girl good looks, blonde and wholesome but not intimadiatingly sexy, great comedic timing, no problems with addiction.....what happened?!

[aradia22]

Quote

@ARADIA22 Degrassi is an excellent venue to train young actors. I'm kinda sad we haven't had more breakout stars (where is Charlotte Arnold?!!) of course there is always Drake aka Aubrey Graham. 

YES! Where IS Charlotte Arnold? Apparently on a show called Patriot? idk. But then, she was already good when she was on Naturally Sadie. She didn't really need Degrassi. And, oh, I'm sorry... do you mean Wheelchair Jimmy? ;) 

Quote

My mom was watching the random movie "Butter" the other day, and I thought "I wonder why Alicia Silverstone never made it big?!!" It surprised me the biggest stars from Clueless are Donald Faison and Paul Rudd. Alicia had all American white girl good looks, blonde and wholesome but not intimadiatingly sexy, great comedic timing, no problems with addiction.....what happened?!

She got into a weird mommy blogger phase (not as bad as Jenny McCarthy or anything but still weird) but I don't think that derailed her career. Actually, I'm not surprised Faison and Rudd have come out the best since the entertainment industry often disposes of actresses after a certain age (with some excepts like Streep and Mirren) while guys like Faison and Rudd who are versatile enough to slot in wherever needed can do better for themselves. Though Rudd has managed to nab himself a surprising number of starring roles.

[Dejana]

15 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

My mom was watching the random movie "Butter" the other day, and I thought "I wonder why Alicia Silverstone never made it big?!!" It surprised me the biggest stars from Clueless are Donald Faison and Paul Rudd. Alicia had all American white girl good looks, blonde and wholesome but not intimadiatingly sexy, great comedic timing, no problems with addiction.....what happened?!

After Clueless she ended up in the George Clooney Batman movie as Batgirl, around that time she gained a bit of weight and the tabloids saddled her with a rather cruel nickname about it. Then her star vehicle Excess Baggage flopped, too. If she'd been a guy, she would have gotten a few more chances before having to go to TV, which wasn't in the golden age it is now. She still acts, but her career was well in the doldrums long before she was posting videos of herself feeding her kid from her mouth like a bird.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Dejana

[tongueincheek]

14 hours ago, Dejana said:

After Clueless she ended up in the George Clooney Batman movie as Batgirl, around that time she gained a bit of weight and the tabloids saddled her with a rather cruel nickname about it. Then her star vehicle Excess Baggage flopped, too. and If she'd been a guy she would have gotten a few more chances before having to go to TV which wasn't in the golden age it is now. She still acts, but her career was well in the doldrums long before she was posting videos of herself feeding her kid from her mouth like a bird.

I actually loved Excess Baggage - I thought she and Benicio had hot chemistry.

[memememe76]

In terms of Degrassi, there is also Nina Dobrev. Shanae Grimes and Jake Epstein seem to get regular work. The show's funding has them hire actors only from Ontario. I wonder what the quality of the casting would be if they had all of Canada.

[methodwriter85]

3 hours ago, memememe76 said:

In terms of Degrassi, there is also Nina Dobrev. Shanae Grimes and Jake Epstein seem to get regular work. The show's funding has them hire actors only from Ontario. I wonder what the quality of the casting would be if they had all of Canada.

Still disappointed that Deanna Casaluce wasn't able to break into Hollywood. She was honestly really good. It sounds like she retired, pretty much- she hasn't worked since 2008.

My favorite two "basically retired" actors are Sabrina Lloyd and Matt Keeslar. Both of them deserved better, honestly, but just didn't have enough luck.

[absnow54]

In terms of Degrassi, there is also Nina Dobrev. Shanae Grimes and Jake Epstein seem to get regular work. The show's funding has them hire actors only from Ontario. I wonder what the quality of the casting would be if they had all of Canada.

Shanae Grimes seems to have found her niche in Hallmark movies, while Cassie Steele seems to be a Lifetime movie regular. The kid who played Zig is on the shortlist for a Transformers spinoff, but given the box office decline in the US market of the franchise, I wouldn't consider it a starting vehicle for a career.

[VCRTracking]

So I haven't read interviews on whether Dunkirk was a first step for him or just a lark but Harry Styles has a movie career if he wants it.

[methodwriter85]

On 7/27/2017 at 0:11 AM, Dejana said:

After Clueless she ended up in the George Clooney Batman movie as Batgirl, around that time she gained a bit of weight and the tabloids saddled her with a rather cruel nickname about it. Then her star vehicle Excess Baggage flopped, too. If she'd been a guy, she would have gotten a few more chances before having to go to TV, which wasn't in the golden age it is now. She still acts, but her career was well in the doldrums long before she was posting videos of herself feeding her kid from her mouth like a bird.

My god, that article...

From Batgirl to Fatgirl (New York Daily News March 1996)

She did lose the weight by the time Blast from the Past came out, but by that time, her career was basically over and all the new teen stars (Sarah Michelle Gellar, Julia Stiles, Katie Holmes, Jennifer Love Hewitt) were being fawned over instead.

Honestly, Alicia had a lot of charm and charisma, but she was never really able to grow that much as an actress. I've seen her later stuff and there just isn't some Kate Winslet level of talent hiding there. She probably could have been a Hallmark Channel movie heroine (she did do one with them) but she's just a little too political for Hallmark to want her as their brand ambassador. She did do a wonderful job as Braceface, a cartoon about a 13-year old girl with braces. She definitely should do more voice work.

Harry Styles can definitely have a career if he wants one.

Edited July 28, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Silver Raven]

Does anybody know why Dunkirk star Fionn Whitehead shares a Twitter account with actor Aneurin Barnard?

[Dejana]

7 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

So I haven't read interviews on whether Dunkirk was a first step for him or just a lark but Harry Styles has a movie career if he wants it.

During the promo tour, Harry deflected all questions about his future in acting, but since he was offered another movie role a couple of years before he landed the one in Dunkirk, I would guess that tackling films is something he's wanted to do for a while and is eager to continue. He keeps pretty close counsel and probably won't let on until the contracts are signed and the studio is putting out the press release.

 

3 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Does anybody know why Dunkirk star Fionn Whitehead shares a Twitter account with actor Aneurin Barnard?

They have the same agent? They're dating? :) I didn't think Fionn had any social media accounts, in the lead-up to Dunkirk, I encountered a fair amount of discussion on movie forums about whether or not that was a good strategy for any unknown but particularly one being overshadowed by his co-star.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Dejana

[absnow54]

4 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Does anybody know why Dunkirk star Fionn Whitehead shares a Twitter account with actor Aneurin Barnard?

I think that's a fan account dedicated to both actors. 

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

My god, that article...

From Batgirl to Fatgirl (New York Daily News March 1996)

She did lose the weight by the time Blast from the Past came out, but by that time, her career was basically over and all the new teen stars (Sarah Michelle Gellar, Julia Stiles, Katie Holmes, Jennifer Love Hewitt) were being fawned over instead.

Honestly, Alicia had a lot of charm and charisma, but she was never really able to grow that much as an actress. I've seen her later stuff and there just isn't some Kate Winslet level of talent hiding there. She probably could have been a Hallmark Channel movie heroine (she did do one with them) but she's just a little too political for Hallmark to want her as their brand ambassador. She did do a wonderful job as Braceface, a cartoon about a 13-year old girl with braces. She definitely should do more voice work.

Harry Styles can definitely have a career if he wants one.

Alicia had tons of competition that she was seriously outclassed by including the actresses listed in your post. There was also Michelle Williams, Kristen Dunst, Mena Suvari, Amy Adams, and Rachel McAdams. She couldn't compete with Angelina Jolie or Charlize Theron who were the sex pots of her cohorts. On the younger end, there is Anne Hathaway, Mandy Moore, and Katherine McPhee have similar characteristics as Silverstone, but younger and multitalented. She's starring in Kyle Richards' semi-autobiographical American Woman originally greenlit by TV Land. 

[Silver Raven]

Anthony Scaraucci's daughter, Amelia, is an actress.  Nothing major yet.  She had an ensemble role in Les Miserables.

[methodwriter85]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Alicia had tons of competition that she was seriously outclassed by including the actresses listed in your post. There was also Michelle Williams, Kristen Dunst, Mena Suvari, Amy Adams, and Rachel McAdams. She couldn't compete with Angelina Jolie or Charlize Theron who were the sex pots of her cohorts. On the younger end, there is Anne Hathaway, Mandy Moore, and Katherine McPhee have similar characteristics as Silverstone, but younger and multitalented. She's starring in Kyle Richards' semi-autobiographical American Woman originally greenlit by TV Land. 

Don't forget Reese Witherspoon. She was able to do the same kind of thing (breezy, charming blonde with a secret heart of gold) but she was also able to convincingly play some dark, gritty stuff. I'd say Reese is probably the most comparable to her, but she was able to break out beyond the ingenue while Alicia couldn't. And again, Reese also had a slew of gritty indies as her training ground before Cruel Intentions and Legally Blonde made her a household name.

Alicia was a case of too much, too soon. I think giving her that development deal in hindsight hurt her career in the long-run. When she couldn't deliver after two chances (3 if you're counting her last major release lead role in Blast From The Past) she was pretty much declared over and people moved on. She might have had a chance if Miss Match had taken off (it was pretty much tailor made for her) but NBC cancelled it after one season.

Kind of a shame that she and Molly Ringwald didn't share any scenes in King Cobra. In my imagination, I like to picture them commiserating over the fact that their acting careers peaked when they were 18. (Although even Molly had 3 solid movies. Alicia just has Clueless and her Aerosmith videos. I mean, the Crush was fun but it's not anything that people still care about as opposed to Clueless.)

As for Charlize Theron, I am so fucking impressed with her and the fact that she refuses to let Hollywood discard her as an old hag now that she's over 40. She's forged a pretty interesting path for herself...Young Adult was a great turning point for her after her post-Oscar funk and I love that she has refused to let herself become the "Mom" in movies like most middle-aged women when they age out of being the ingenue sexpot. Margot Robbie should definitely take some notes from her.

Edited July 29, 2017 by methodwriter85

[HunterHunted]

11 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Don't forget Reese Witherspoon. She was able to do the same kind of thing (breezy, charming blonde with a secret heart of gold) but she was also able to convincingly play some dark, gritty stuff. I'd say Reese is probably the most comparable to her, but she was able to break out beyond the ingenue while Alicia couldn't. And again, Reese also had a slew of gritty indies as her training ground before Cruel Intentions and Legally Blonde made her a household name.

Alicia was a case of too much, too soon. I think giving her that development deal in hindsight hurt her career in the long-run. When she couldn't deliver after two chances (3 if you're counting her last major release lead role in Blast From The Past) she was pretty much declared over and people moved on. She might have had a chance if Miss Match had taken off (it was pretty much tailor made for her)

Kind of a shame that she and Molly Ringwald didn't share any scenes in King Cobra. In my imagination, I like to picture them commiserating over the fact that their acting careers peaked when they were 18. (Although even Molly had 3 solid movies. Alicia just has Clueless and her Aerosmith videos. I mean, the Crush was fun but it's not anything that people still care about as opposed to Clueless.)

I had forgotten about Reese. As you said, it was a case of too much, too soon for Alicia. She was a baby with a development deal. Who gives a 19 or 20 year old something like that? Even Miss Match was too early. It was 2003. Kyra Sedgwick began starring in The Closer in 2005. Damages wouldn't be on the air until 2007. It was really unusual that a star of Glenn Close's caliber was doing tv. She wasn't working like she used to, but still. Damages was really well regarded. It would be another 5 or so years before more film stars would be regularly doing tv. And now we have Kristen Dunst on the second season of Fargo, Rachel McAdams on season 2 of True Detective, Mandy Moore on This is Us, Katherine McPhee on Scorpion, and Reese and Nicole in Big Little Lies on HBO.

[methodwriter85]

I'm wracking my brain and I can't think of any more recent teen/early 20's starlet that got a deal like that after just one hit film. I mean, Hollywood does seem like they're determined to make Chloe Grace Moretz and Cara Delevigne happen, but even they aren't getting the kind of power backing that Alicia got.

Jennifer Lawrence maybe...but she also had an Oscar nom and The Hunger Games was massive, as opposed to Clueless, which did great for a teen romance comedy but it wasn't something everybody in the whole world watched.

The game in Hollywood has changed a lot since 1995-1996 and I can't picture studio execs doing that kind of deal now.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

As for Charlize Theron, I am so fucking impressed with her and the fact that she refuses to let Hollywood discard her as an old hag now that she's over 40. She's forged a pretty interesting path for herself...Young Adult was a great turning point for her after her post-Oscar funk and I love that she has refused to let herself become the "Mom" in movies like most middle-aged women when they age out of being the ingenue sexpot. Margot Robbie should definitely take some notes from her.

I'm not sure what this means, since Margot Robbie (allegedly) isn't even thirty yet. She was 23 when she played opposite DiCaprio in Wolf of Wall Street and 25 when she was in Focus with Will Smith. *insert space for complaints about older men/younger women pairings in movies in general* Even if she fudged her age, her career is hardly faltering. I checked her IMDB entry, and she's got eight projects in various stages of development/completion, including a second turn as Harley Quinn since Gotham City Sirens has just been announced.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I'm not sure what this means, since Margot Robbie (allegedly) isn't even thirty yet. She was 23 when she played opposite DiCaprio in Wolf of Wall Street and 25 when she was in Focus with Will Smith. *insert space for complaints about older men/younger women pairings in movies in general* Even if she fudged her age, her career is hardly faltering. I checked her IMDB entry, and she's got eight projects in various stages of development/completion, including a second turn as Harley Quinn since Gotham City Sirens has just been announced.

Margot Robbie has a very mature looking face (she's absolutely gorgeous but she looks older than her years), she's the same age as Jennifer Lawrence. If her looks "hold" and she looks the same for the next two decades she could take a clue from Charlize Theron in how to manage her career. 

I think it's good Cameron Diaz keeps working, she's not Oscar material by any means but I find her funny. 

@methodwriter85 RESSE!! The thing with Resse is that she is a better actress than Alicia was. And yes she did the Indie stuff to show her range and hone her craft- people believed she could be more than just a blond girl next door after seeing her in election. Had Alicia been given different venues after Clueless, or if TV had been the star it is now her career would've gone a different way. 

[methodwriter85]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Margot Robbie has a very mature looking face (she's absolutely gorgeous but she looks older than her years), she's the same age as Jennifer Lawrence. If her looks "hold" and she looks the same for the next two decades she could take a clue from Charlize Theron in how to manage her career. 

I think it's good Cameron Diaz keeps working, she's not Oscar material by any means but I find her funny. 

@methodwriter85 RESSE!! The thing with Resse is that she is a better actress than Alicia was. And yes she did the Indie stuff to show her range and hone her craft- people believed she could be more than just a blond girl next door after seeing her in election. Had Alicia been given different venues after Clueless, or if TV had been the star it is now her career would've gone a different way. 

That's kind of my point. Margot is the resident sexpot of her cohorts. (Jennifer Lawrence, Emma Watson, Emma Stone, Brie Larson, etc etc.) Sex pots tend to get discarded once they've hit their 40's. Charlize has totally blazed a pretty path beyond that.

Cameron Diaz has also managed to keep getting work, although she's not Oscar-worthy like Charlize is. Her on-screen persona has basically evolved from her Something About Mary persona to her Bad Teacher one- the still-hot 40-something who's funny in an edgy way. The Cool Girl, but in her 40's now.

Edited July 29, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

That's kind of my point. Margot is the resident sexpot of her cohorts. (Jennifer Lawrence, Emma Watson, Emma Stone, Brie Larson, etc etc.) Sex pots tend to get discarded once they've hit their 40's. Charlize has totally blazed a pretty path beyond that.

Cameron Diaz has also managed to keep getting work, although she's not Oscar-worthy like Charlize is. Her on-screen persona has basically evolved from her Something About Mary persona to her Bad Teacher one- the still-hot 40-something who's funny in an edgy way. The Cool Girl, but in her 40's now.

Yes I was agreeing with you, saying Margot is not like Charlize NOW but could be a future Charlize in 2040 where as the other poster may have thought you meant Margot and Charlize are contemporaries. 

[aradia22]

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As for Charlize Theron, I am so fucking impressed with her and the fact that she refuses to let Hollywood discard her as an old hag now that she's over 40. She's forged a pretty interesting path for herself...Young Adult was a great turning point for her after her post-Oscar funk and I love that she has refused to let herself become the "Mom" in movies like most middle-aged women when they age out of being the ingenue sexpot. Margot Robbie should definitely take some notes from her.

I mean, it probably doesn't hurt that she's still absolutely gorgeous. To get very superficial for a moment, if she's had work done, it's of the undetectable variety (as opposed to the kind that turned people off of other actresses) and if she hasn't then her looks are still stunning and her skin is enviably flawless. That kind of thing. Compare Uma Thurman and Julia Roberts who, yes, are older, but at Charlize's age they were starting to age in a way that made them easier to write off. Of course, aside from her looks I think Charlize has also been smart about diversifying her resume with roles in movies like Monster, Young Adult, Snow White and the Huntsmand, Fury Road, and Fast and the Furious. She didn't get pegged down in rom-coms or wholesome girl next door roles... or even sexy Bond Girl type roles. 

I haven't watched any of Margot Robbie's movies yet. I'm still not over her awful acting in Pan Am. And again, to be superficial, I feel like Jennifer Lawrence is curvier and has more of the sexpot thing than Margot Robbie even if Robbie has been cast in roles that are all about drawing the male gaze. But then in today's Hollywood, not many of the top actresses actually have the sexpot curves of Marilyn Monroe, Gina Lollobrigida, Sofia Loren, Elizabeth Taylor, etc. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by aradia22

[Irlandesa]

21 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

And now we have Kristen Dunst on the second season of Fargo, Rachel McAdams on season 2 of True Detective, Mandy Moore on This is Us, Katherine McPhee on Scorpion, and Reese and Nicole in Big Little Lies on HBO.

When did Katharine McPhee ever even carry the slightest whiff of being a movie star/having a potential movie career? I get the other actresses in that list to an extent, although Mandy is kind of iffy for me too, McPhee always seemed to me to be an actress in search of something that would stick.  Scorpion is apparently that vehicle.

[kiddo82]

I think it's also of note that Charlize got her Oscar early.  It seems like it's more acceptable to go from Oscar bait to popcorn flick ("She's a serious actress but she's a cool chick now.") than the other way around.  ("Now she's getting desperate.").  And like aradia said, it doesn't hurt that she's "still"* drop dead gorgeous.  I do love how she seems to have the combination of looks, talent, clout, and portfolio diversity to be writing her own ticket right now and she's basically saying "Eff it.  I'm going to do what I want."  It seems like Brie Larson can take a similar path if she wants to.

 

*"still" in quotations because she's in her 40s, not her 80s.

Edited July 30, 2017 by kiddo82

[Cobalt Stargazer]

7 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Brie Larson

Meant to say this earlier, since I saw Free Fire the other night, but I'm so glad she seems to be catching on. Room is disturbing, but Larson has managed to do some fairly diverse stuff since then. And maybe it was just the 70s fashion of the most recent movie I saw her in, but she knocked my socks off both acting and looks wise.

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I mean, it probably doesn't hurt that she's still absolutely gorgeous. To get very superficial for a moment, if she's had work done, it's of the undetectable variety (as opposed to the kind that turned people off of other actresses) and if she hasn't then her looks are still stunning and her skin is enviably flawless. That kind of thing. Compare Uma Thurman and Julia Roberts who, yes, are older, but at Charlize's age they were starting to age in a way that made them easier to write off. Of course, aside from her looks I think Charlize has also been smart about diversifying her resume with roles in movies like Monster, Young Adult, Snow White and the Huntsmand, Fury Road, and Fast and the Furious. She didn't get pegged down in rom-coms or wholesome girl next door roles... or even sexy Bond Girl type roles. 

I haven't watched any of Margot Robbie's movies yet. I'm still not over her awful acting in Pan Am. And again, to be superficial, I feel like Jennifer Lawrence is curvier and has more of the sexpot thing than Margot Robbie even if Robbie has been cast in roles that are all about drawing the male gaze. But then in today's Hollywood, not many of the top actresses actually have the sexpot curves of Marilyn Monroe, Gina Lollobrigida, Sofia Loren, Elizabeth Taylor, etc. 

I feel like in Julia Roberts case, she was never a true beauty. What she had was the glow and charm of youth. When Julia's "glow" faded, you were left with a pleasant-looking middle-aged woman, but nothing special. And her girl-next-door charm just started to feel fake.

With Uma, she reminds me of what someone said once about former teen models like Brooke Shields. Those strong features that were so photogenic when you're a teenager with soft unlined skin can work against you a little bit when your features roughen with age. (Not that she even looks bad- she's just what we would call a handsome woman.)

Charlize has somehow managed to retain that girlish lushness about her features. She really has done a great job of putting herself in a position where she isn't just going to be dismissed for the next Hollywood starlet in line.

Edited July 30, 2017 by methodwriter85

[aradia22]

I don't know. I still say Charlize has managed to stay thin/fit without aging like a normal person except around the eyes. I think it's less about strong features and just what happens over time. Blah, blah... having children, blah blah... menopause/testosterone. I would also throw Judith Light, Kate Winslet, Cate Blanchett, and Blythe Danner into the conversation of actresses who seem to have aged naturally (without cosmetic enhancements or surgery) but still show their age in a way Charlize does not. Of course, that's just in real life. Lighting and movie magic do wonders so if Hollywood wanted to continue casting older actresses in bombshell, rom-com, etc. parts, they easily could instead of giving them to the latest ingenue. Also, throw in Marion Cotillard as a Charlize contemporary who has mostly defied age except around the eyes.

[Scarlett45]

@methodwriter85 I agree I never thought Julia Roberts was particularly beautiful. She had a pleasant enough face, was tall and thin (for wearing clothes) but was very much just a "pleasant looking regular woman" to me. 

 

@aradia22 You're right, most of the top Caucasian actresses don't have "sexpot curves"(I think those curves are more "acceptable in Hollywood" among actresses of color). The "thin model" look is still in, but maybe more athletic than in the 1990s. I think Jennifer Lawerence has a better body, but her actual personality is not "sex pot" in the way Margot Robbie's is. In her 40s I could see Margot being a Mrs Robinson character. 

You know how people say a woman can be very attractive but have no sex appeal? I have had this said to me (which kind of hurt my feelings), but what I think keeps Jennifer Lawrence from that "sex pot" genre is that she still has a baby face. She still looks innocent enough while Margot does not. 

[DisneyBoy]

Late to the party but here goes...

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In music or acting, I've always found Mandy Moore to be the blandest kind of wishy washy inoffensive mediocrity.

I can see that.

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She's got this gaspy/exasperated style of acting that's kind of limited...

Yup. And that's her "normal" voice. Crank it up to "cartoon girl" levels and I'm running for the hills. I found her so distracting in Tangled...

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Saved is definitely hands down the best thing Mandy Moore has ever done. 

Definitely, but I still didn't find her brilliant in it. The film was cheesy/campy in parts so it's not just her, but I really didn't like the way she played her final scenes. Too hammy. Overall, I really wish the film hadn't leaned in the TV movie direction and instead tried to be a bit more harsh, given the premise it began with. The prom and everyone falling in love were not needed, you know? And the thing is, I don't know if Moore could have played her character straighter...been less OTT.

If she could work on finding different voices to use and escape sounding like a perpetual babysitter, she'd find more success.

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It is kind of funny that Superman Returns actually made more money than Batman Begins. But returns had so much baggage from all those other failed productions that it had almost no chance for success.

Hun. Never knew that. Makes sense though, after all the earlier aborted attempts. Never knew it out-grossed Begins, though.

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To be fair, although RDJ is a two time Oscar nominee with a decade spanning career, casting pre-2008 RDJ to launch the Marvel franchise was a gamble at the time. 

That's putting it mildly! I'm amazed he came back after ruining Ally McBeal. David E Kelly had to do a lot to even get him on the show (he was uninsurable apparently) and then right when his character is set to marry the leading lady and push the series premise into new territory, whammo! RDJ is booked for drug use and sent to prison. The wedding episode had to be rewritten into a breakup in a span of like two weeks I believe it was, and largely reshot without RDJ available. The following season of the show bombed big. Kelly had obviously wanted to write a marriage storyline and was done with the single life stories. It showed. Fans just wanted RDJ back but couldn't have him, and wouldn't accept any substitutions (not even Jon Bon Jovi). The series wimpered to an end.

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She did do a wonderful job as Braceface, a cartoon about a 13-year old girl with braces. She definitely should do more voice work.

Reminds me of Melissa Joan Hart. She did good work in the animated film Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. I was never really a fan but her voice work was good there.

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My god, that article...

No kidding! Imagine being 19 and having a successful movie and basically everybody eager to see you fail. Poor kid. It's a shame because nowadays she might have been applauded for a fuller figure...

I don't remember any guys drooling over her back in the day though. I got the sense the film was popular.

Playing Batgirl was the end though. The part was thinly-written and in a terrible movie, and comic nerds didn't want to see anyone but redheaded Barbara Gordon in the cowl. Plus she was That Girl From Clueless.

I'm curious to see what happens with Sam Witwer. He did bits on ER and other things after leaving Julliard and had what I thought was a breakout performance on Smallville as Doomsday's human form, David Bloome. But now, last I saw he was Mr Hyde on Once Upon A Time...and that show's hardly on the upswing...will he make it into movies? Or is he now typecast as the handsome/crazy character?

Edited July 30, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[aradia22]

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You're right, most of the top Caucasian actresses don't have "sexpot curves"(I think those curves are more "acceptable in Hollywood" among actresses of color). The "thin model" look is still in, but maybe more athletic than in the 1990s. I think Jennifer Lawerence has a better body, but her actual personality is not "sex pot" in the way Margot Robbie's is. In her 40s I could see Margot being a Mrs Robinson character. 

You know how people say a woman can be very attractive but have no sex appeal? I have had this said to me (which kind of hurt my feelings), but what I think keeps Jennifer Lawrence from that "sex pot" genre is that she still has a baby face. She still looks innocent enough while Margot does not. 

Yup. Guys go on about Rosario Dawson but when I think curves, I'm thinking Salma Hayek, Sofia Vergara, Christina Hendricks. Other actresses of color like Viola Davis have either aged out of that focus on their bodies or they're too large (by Hollywood standards) to be in the conversation... Octavia Spencer, Queen Latifah, etc. even though they're still gorgeous... as most actors are. 

I guess I can see Margot Robbie as a Mrs. Robinson character in a Sharon Stone way... but not a Michelle Pfeiffer way if that makes any sense. I feel like her looks might harden as she ages. It'll be interesting to see if she can parlay that into tougher, more intense roles. 

I know I'm saying this as a straight woman but I agree about the baby face thing. It's what makes Selena Gomez and Ariana Grande trying to be highly sexualized very uncomfortable.