S37.E08: You Get What You Give

[piequinn35]

15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Didn't really need the Davids to celebrate THAT hard, LOL.  Aren't they still down in numbers?
But, they have 2 advantages, and Dan is an idiot, so......…

 

Yes, 6 to 5, I laughed when they cheered after Peach read John, the vote steal will be a huge advantage, the other advantage, I don't know, it will be hard to guess who has the HII and if he/she will use it, Dan was 1000% idiot for using that idol.

[fishcakes]

Bye John and John's abs. Sad for me, but happy for Elizabeth.

Carl's back pockets were a fancy surprise.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

Angelina is just a very bad liar who thinks she is a great liar.  It's kind of hilarious actually.  It's akin to Natalie thinking she gets along with everyone when in fact she got along with no one.  I'm amused that TPTB are turning Angelina's edit into one long beg-fest with interruptions for laughably bad lying and self-aggrandizement.  I don't even mind anymore that she's still here because she's entertaining me so much.

<snip>

She also demonstrated (to me) that she's actually kind of stupid. After Mike proposed voting out Christian, several Goliaths were sitting around and decided they should tell Christian they were voting out Angelina as a decoy.

She asked, "But why don't we all just stay tight-lipped and say nothing?"

It's not just that "stay tight-lipped" and "say nothing" both mean the same thing and it was redundant to say both things when she could have just said one. Although that is a clue.

After she said that, several of the other Goliaths started speaking at once and tried to explain to her why that would be wrong.

Some of you have been saying that she is not as clever as she thinks she is. Well .... she ain't clever - at all!

Edited November 15, 2018 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

31 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Well, yes, kind of.  I mean, we have seen absolutely no indication either here or when he was on The Amazing Race that he's racist. Just because he didn't think two relatively low-key players were going to make a move doesn't automatically mean he has a problem with people who aren't white.   

I accept you may be correct and if so ... I apologize to Mike and anyone I may have offended.

The editing was somewhat to blame. As Mike was saying, "those two guys aren't going to start any kind of insurrection" and Alec (I think it was Alec) was laughing, the editors showed Davie and Carl sitting on the beach smiling and just enjoying themselves." I had to wonder what it was about that shot that would support the statement they wouldn't be able to start any kind of insurrection.

I think David (especially) showed himself able to be a superb player and I hope he wins the whole thing.

Can you suggest any reason why Mike was seemingly so certain they couldn't start any insurrection and why the editors chose to show us that shot of them? I'm not certain what it is, but it sure does feel like there is something unspoken going on.

ETA: As far as Davie and Carl being "low-key" players go, between them (if I'm remembering correctly), they have found as many advantages or idols between them as everyone else combined. Mike never found squat though he got caught looking. Christian never found squat. So why would you consider them to be "low-key" players? If it's because they don't seem to be featured as much by the editors, I can agree with that. But I wouldn't call them "low-key" at all. I would say the truth is they are both better players than Mike because they don't actively try to get themselves voted out like Mike just did.

Edited November 15, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

Angelina is just a very bad liar who thinks she is a great liar.  (Snip)

I'm laughing from start to finish at your essay @Special K, LOL!

1 hour ago, Special K said:

I just wanted to point out that Kara is strong.  She was one of the people on her team consistently holding more than one bag during the Reward Challenge and didn't seem very stressed about it.

The women were shown to be extremely strong in that challenge.  It was almost comical how at some points it appeared that Kara and Alison were holding 3 bags each while Mike appeared to be struggling with one.

[Special K]

I think insofar as the Goliaths have seen, both Davey and Carl have been playing it pretty low-key, not overtly strategizing, etc.  To their credit.  And I think Mike has an inflated sense of his own intelligence, and only sees Christian as his rival in that regard.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

  If it was such an open secret, why didn't Mike, who in his own mind is the smartest person in the game,

LOL!!!

(New thought, not replying to the above) I think Mike made himself look VERY badly with the "And it's not like CARL AND DAVIE are going to mount an insurrection" comment.  He's not "dead to me" but it was 100% satisfying watching his expression at Tribal Council.  He didn't hide at all how blindsided he was.  He stereotyped Christian as being "as smart as (he) is" and he stereotyped Carl and Davie as being stupid.  

Edited November 15, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[KimberStormer]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I love that Angelina asked Dan if he told Jeff who the idol was for and Dan's calm "Yes." That was gold.

I loved this too.  It was so Angelina.  That little extra unneccessary bit that must have driven him up the freaking wall.

1 hour ago, Special K said:

I just wanted to point out that Kara is strong.  She was one of the people on her team consistently holding more than one bag during the Reward Challenge and didn't seem very stressed about it.

Yeah, Kara seemed rock-solid the whole time.  Allison also was impressive.  I thought Mike was going to fall out, since we've seen his muscles fail before in that giant-water-bowl challenge, but the actual ending was so much better.

54 minutes ago, blackwing said:

We know that Mike knew he had an idol because Jeremy snooped and he was there to see it.  Who else did Mike tell?  If it was such an open secret, why didn't Mike, who in his own mind is the smartest person in the game, consider the possibility that the Davids knew that Dan had an idol?  Or that the Davids would have an idol of their own?  If Goliath had split their votes 4-3 on Christian and say, Gabby, and planned to play an idol for Angelina.  The Davids couldn't be certain that Dan would play the idol for Angelina (and thus they split their votes 3-2).  It would have been a 3-3 tie on John and Gabby and on revote, Gabby goes home.

I get where people are coming from on this but I think it's a bit of Monday morning quarterbacking, or whatever the expression is.  If the Goliaths split their vote here the Davids don't need any idols at all, they just need to vote together.  How could they know they'd split their votes?  When, in the history of the show, has the minority alliance split their vote?  I can't think of a one before tonight.  Expecting people to be smart is one thing, but expecting them to be psychic is another.

[Nashville]

17 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

You know, that was brilliant but also why not split the vote?

The Davids did split their vote - three for John (Christian, Davie, Nick) and two for Angelina (Carl, Gabby).  The Goliaths did not split their vote, but they should’ve - more on that below.

 

Quote

Everyone knows Dan has an idol (I am not sure that everyone knows he has two) so it is likely that he will play his idol for Angelina. I expected one vote for someone else, from Davie since Davie is the only one who knew he had an idol. I did not expect three votes. Christian's vote surprises me. Christian looked appropriately panicked at tribal so I am not sure that he knew Davie had an idol. I think it might have been better for everyone if the David's changed who they were voting for as a whole, more a unified swap, and not told the Goliath's. It would have been even more fun to have Dan play the idol and Angelina not get one vote.

Ok, clarification time:

1. Every David HAD to know every facet of the passion play that was about to go down - up to and including Davie’s idol play - for the David vote to have gone that way, else every David would have followed the last “plan” and voted Angelina.  Carl and Gabby might technically be considered exceptions (since both did vote for Angelina) - but to leave them out would be unnecessarily antagonizing and serve no useful strategic purpose, while including them would more tightly cement the alliance and bulletproof it from Goliath overtures - so I expect both Gabby and Carl were in on the schtick as well.
2. With the Davids splitting their vote the way they did, there were two possible scenarios which could defeat them - (A) a unanimous Goliath vote against a target other than Christian, or (B) a 4-3 split Goliath vote at two Davids.  These options had to be defused at any cost - which leads to my last point...
3. Oscar, hell; Christian deserved a fucking EGOT for his TC performance.  

Y’all did notice the following, right?

• Christian almost totally monopolized the David contribution of the TC discussion; with maybe the exception to Davie’s very first remarks about the previous TC, no other David uttered more than a few noncommittal sentences.
• With the exception of one early Davie mention of Alison’s previous-TC Jury management comments and a Brochacho reference by Christian, every Goliath-referencing statement by a David focused exclusively on Angelina.
• ALL Christian’s self-referencing commentary focused upon how badly he’d managed his threat appearance level - the target on his own back.
• Virtually all Christian’s Goliath-interactive dialogue was with Angelina, and of a quasi-confrontational nature.

All of these were absolutely moves by design.  Christian had to walk a very delicate tightrope at TC - painting as huge a target on his own back as possible (to defuse Scenario A) while simultaneously making it appear the Davids were considering NO Goliath vote target other than Angelina (to defuse Scenario B) - all the while taking care not to OVERplay his role, and expose the David plan.  And Christian did so with the deft agility of a Wallenda.

Oh, almost forgot - and the BIGGEST single indicator all the Davids were in on the plan?

Throughout the entire TC discussion, Gabby never opened her mouth.

It’s true. I went back on my DVR and double-checked to be sure. I ran the entirety of the TC discussion phase from entry to the start of voting, and Gabby never did more than nod.  

If for nothing else, somebody deserves a Nobel Prize for THAT shit.

 

14 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Me, after watching this episode:

You and me both.  :)

 

Quote

Alec mouthing along with Jeff will never not be funny. 

I saw that and backed up the DVR to show it to the old lady.  :>

 

Quote

Angelina is so predictable with her begging:

Her first tribal council: Natalie, can I have your jacket? Natalie? Natalie? Natalie?

Next tribal: Elizabeth, can I have your jury vote? Elizabeth? Elizabeth? Elizabeth?

This tribal: Dan? Dan? Please? Dan? Dan? 

I can't wait to see what she begs for next. She can also lose me with the Jan Brady/no one listens to girls shit when her fellow Gs wanted to vote out Christian and she whined about already having that idea last go-round.

My hand to God: when Angelina started her “That was my plan....” whining in her TH, I turned to the old lady and -er- loudly stated “SHUT UP, JAN!”  :D 

 

13 hours ago, nutty1 said:

Isn't Angelina married?

Angelina is married now; she was engaged at the time the season was shot, and they got married afterwards.

Yes.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Nashville
Corrected Angelina’s marital status

[blackwing]

16 minutes ago, Special K said:

I think insofar as the Goliaths have seen, both Davey and Carl have been playing it pretty low-key, not overtly strategizing, etc.  To their credit.  And I think Mike has an inflated sense of his own intelligence, and only sees Christian as his rival in that regard.

Davie has been very low key and I think the fact that he hid his idol etc. shows great strategy.  But I can't fault Mike for thinking that Carl is stupid.  Carl has done absolutely nothing in this game.  The only reason why he has his nullifier is because he got lucky in the tribal switch draw to get sent to Exile Island.  It's not like he took any initiative to go hunting for idols.  Without that nullifier, his only other significant action in this game is to complain about Elizabeth.  It's like someone here said several episodes ago, Carl always looks like he's wandering around in the background as if he's always been there.  He's unnoticeable because he hasn't done anything to be noticed.

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

But even more hilarious in a Shakespearean-tragedy way is Dan.  Losing that challenge because of showing off, telling his buds that he wouldn't save Angelina with his idol, then folding like a cheap suit under her begging.  AND THEN:  by doing so, causing one of his best alliance mates to get voted out, and keeping the very person he was dying to vote out anyway.  Nice day's work there, sport!  Brad Culpepper would be proud.

Major, multiple hats off to the Davids, with Davey and Nick at the top of the list.  They engineered that to perfection!  I'm sorry to see John go, and I love a good sport.  He'll be a nice addition to Ponderosa.  I too was hollering and clapping in my living room.  Just great TV.  Davey is all kinds of chill sucking on that toothpick, and I think Nick's fangs are cute.  As others have said, Mike is dead to me now.

Christian should win an Oscar for his performance at Tribal.  And they ALL should win an award for pretending that skanky looking piece of pizza was good.

It would have been more hilarious if Kara got voted off, because Dan really would have been kicking his own ass for that one.  I think what I loved the most about the idol play for Angelina is that she acted like he did it out of good faith and wasn't hesitating in the slightest, and jumped right up like a knight in shining armour.  It was funny to see her sitting there and saying he was her angel. 

When in fact she had to give him the stare down and beg him to play it for her, and you could tell getting a root canal was more appealing to the guy right then.  It was great that they thought they had pulled one over on the Davids, when the Davids had pulled one over them-twice.

I kind of liken the game play coming from both sides as being like a Survivor style Tortoise Beats Hare.  The Goliaths are the Hares, thinking only of big moves, and not overly strategizing as to what a plan b, c, d should be, just locking into one mind set and going with it.  They don't even seem to care about making friends with the Davids since the merge, with the exception of Alec.  On the flip side, the Davids are like the Tortoise-they aren't about big flashy moves, but realistic moves, they are trying to make friends with the enemy, and they are thinking ahead and having a plan b, c, d.  That's how they were able to successfully pull off that vote last night.  It never even dawned on the Goliaths that someone might have an idol, or at least that one would get played.  And they sure didn't think far enough ahead that the Davids might actually split the votes.

[Gummo]

Not much to say except that this season continues to look like it's going to be remembered as one of the Classics! One of the craziest, most fun TCs I can remember! The Davids' plan was masterful, and masterfully carried out. Goliaths may think they still have the numbers, but with Nick's vote-steal, it's effectively even or better for the Davids now. Sorry to lose John (first Survivor dudebro musclehead I've liked in a long time), but his exit was classy and I hope we see him back soon.

Nahville, sorry, but I have to disagree with your TC analysis on the basis that we only see a fraction of the entire thing. Gabby may have spoken, and they may have talked about other people than Angelina and Christian; that's just what the editors and producers wanted to focus on. So yes, the Davids were good and pulled it off, but I don't think it was quite as dramatic as you paint it.

Davids + Alec can wreak a pagonging of the Goliaths now if they want to. But these contestants are having way too much fun playing the game to settle for the safe route. Someone will get impatient or itchy or paranoid and everything will realign again.

Again:  LOVING THIS SEASON!

[Special K]

4 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

When in fact she had to give him the stare down and beg him to play it for her, and you could tell getting a root canal was more appealing to the guy right then. 

To me, it was like watching the rusty gears in his brain creaking to life as he tried to figure out what to do.

[MisterBluxom]

29 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Ok, clarification time:

You made exactly two posts in this thread and they may well be the two posts I most enjoyed this entire season. WTG!

P.S. For anyone else wondering what "EGOT" means, I think it's "Emmy, Grammy, Oscar & Toni". Please excuse me if it's common knowledge and I was the only one who didn't know.

[303420]

Davie could have pulled this off on his own if he sold different stories to Carl and Nick about which advantage was being played, but that seems unnecessarily risky. Instead, I think Davie told one or both of Carl and Nick about the idol, and that person went along with the cover story that involved using their advantage. Gabby and Christian didn't even have to know all the details. If Nick assured Christian that he's got him covered, what's Christian gonna do, say FU? 

I think Davie and Carl and Nick have a threesome, possibly with Christian as their fourth (I agree that no one has him in their end game except maybe Gabby). Within that threesome there are possible twosomes.

[Lamima]

What if the Davids didn't split the vote and all just put Angelina? What would have happened? A revote for any others except those 2 (Angelina and Christian) and Dan? Isn't that what got Cirie one year...everyone in the vote was safe and she was only one left without safety?

Edited November 15, 2018 by Lamima

[LadyChatts]

15 minutes ago, Lamima said:

What if the Davids didn't split the vote and all just put Angelina? What would have happened? A revote for any others except those 2 (Angelina and Christian) and Dan? Isn't that what got Cirie one year...everyone in the vote was safe and she was only one left without safety?

 

I don't know if they would have done a re-vote and voted for someone other than Christian/Angelina, or gone directly to a rock draw. 

In the case of Cirie, I think it was literally there was no one else to vote for because an idol had been played for everyone but her.  So even though she didn't get one vote, there wasn't another option.  For last night's vote, I can't remember if we've had an instance like that before, but I believe it would have been another vote.

Edited November 15, 2018 by LadyChatts

[blackwing]

4 minutes ago, Lamima said:

What if the Davids didn't split the vote and all just put Angelina? What would have happened? A revote for any others except those 2 (Angelina and Christian) and Dan?

Yes, I believe there would have been a revote, and no one can vote for any of those three.  If there is still a tie after the revote, then Jeff asks if anyone is going to change their mind.  If no one is going to budge and there is still a tie, at that point they would go to rocks.

[Nashville]

7 minutes ago, 303420 said:

Davie could have pulled this off on his own if he sold different stories to Carl and Nick about which advantage was being played, but that seems unnecessarily risky. Instead, I think Davie told one or both of Carl and Nick about the idol, and that person went along with the cover story that involved using their advantage. Gabby and Christian didn't even have to know all the details.

Thing is, though, Christian had to have been in on the plan.  Remember Nick’s words to Christian immediately after he told Christian the Goliaths were lying to him - “Just go on like you were planning to”, or something to that extent.  At THAT point in time the entire David strategy was to vote Angelina, because the Davids thought the Goliaths were going to do the same.  So Christian must have been privy to the plan, else he would have voted Angelina instead of John.

[meep.meep]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

The Davids did split their vote - three for John (Christian, Davie, Nick) and two for Angelina (Carl, Gabby).  The Goliaths did not split their vote, but they should’ve - more on that below.

.........

Y’all did notice the following, right?

• Christian almost totally monopolized the David contribution of the TC discussion; with maybe the exception to Davie’s very first remarks about the previous TC, no other David uttered more than a few noncommittal sentences.

 

Why in the world didn't the Goliath's split the vote?  Arrogant thinking that there was no way any of the David's would have an idol at this point?  As Little Meep.Meep says "that's Boston Rob, Survivor Rule #1 by now - always split the vote."

 

What you noted about the TC discussion is the brilliance of the editing.  We know that the councils go on for hours with very little making it to the screen.  We don't know if the others said anything or nothing.  Christian's "brilliance" is what they want you to believe.  

[Rachel RSL]

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

ETA: As far as Davie and Carl being "low-key" players go, between them (if I'm remembering correctly), they have found as many advantages or idols between them as everyone else combined. Mike never found squat though he got caught looking. Christian never found squat. So why would you consider them to be "low-key" players? If it's because they don't seem to be featured as much by the editors, I can agree with that. But I wouldn't call them "low-key" at all. I would say the truth is they are both better players than Mike because they don't actively try to get themselves voted out like Mike just did.

I don't think you understand what "low key" means. It simply means they are calm and don't attract a lot of attention to themselves.

[ProfCrash]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Chrissy is from a recent past season.  A female contestant that rubbed some viewers the wrong way.  I think she only worked with men.

Chrissy worked with some of the women but happily voted out the person she thought was the strongest player.  She rubbed people the wrong way, that is for sure, but she was not that bad. I agree, Angelina is similar to Chrissy in that a season without any real villian, she is the target for peoples ire. 

2 hours ago, nutty1 said:

Isn't Angelina married?

She was a newlywed on the show. John was engaged and got married shortly after returning. That said, there are plenty of people who are married and have affairs. i am sure there have even been some televised on a reality show. So Angelina being married does not exclude the possibility of a showmance. 

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

My question... did everybody in the game know that Dan had an idol?  Did we see him in a previous episode telling the rest of Goliath that he had one?  Kara and the other woman in his original three person suballiance knew he had one, and I don't remember him telling anyone else.  Was that person Angelina, or Natalia?  

We know that Mike knew he had an idol because Jeremy snooped and he was there to see it.  Who else did Mike tell?  If it was such an open secret, why didn't Mike, who in his own mind is the smartest person in the game, consider the possibility that the Davids knew that Dan had an idol?  Or that the Davids would have an idol of their own?  If Goliath had split their votes 4-3 on Christian and say, Gabby, and planned to play an idol for Angelina.  The Davids couldn't be certain that Dan would play the idol for Angelina (and thus they split their votes 3-2).  It would have been a 3-3 tie on John and Gabby and on revote, Gabby goes home.

Alison told Gabby about Dan’s idol. Mike told Nick about Dan’s idol. Dan’s first idol was common knowledge. Honestly, playing it on Angelina might help Dan because the idol everyone knows about is gone. Kara knows that Dan has a second idol. I am not sure who else might no about his second idol.

As for Davie’s idol. We did not see Davie tell anyone about the idol but I suspect that he did tell the other David’s before tribal. But when Carl and Nick were discussing how to use the advantages to possibly save Christian, Davie had a talking head that said he didn’t know if he would use his idol and no one else knew about it. We are assuming that Davie told atleaast Christian and Nick about the idol based on their votes but that was not shown. 

the fact that Davie kept his idol quiet through the tribe swap and the first part of the merge is important. It allowed the David’s to blindside John and the Goliath’s. The Goliath’s discussed Christian having an idol and determined that Christian did not. they did not talk about splitting the vote because they thought that Christian had the idol. They were confident that the Angelina vote would be enough to entice the David’s into voting for her and alow them to vote out Christian. 

For all we know, Davey pulled Christian aside and siad “Vote for John” and didn’t tell Christian why and Christian went along with it. I suspect that Christian did know about the idol but I suspect it was a last minute discussion.

[MisterBluxom]

3 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I don't think you understand what "low key" means. It simply means they are calm and don't attract a lot of attention to themselves.

I don't understand what the connection between being "low-key" and being unable to mount an insurrection.

[Rachel RSL]

Because they haven't attracted a lot of attention to themselves, they've been playing a quiet, low key game, which means most people don't see them as threats. 

[MisterBluxom]

2 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Because they haven't attracted a lot of attention to themselves, they've been playing a quiet, low key game, which means most people don't see them as threats. 

Thank you for explaining.

[MissEwa]

5 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Why in the world didn't the Goliath's split the vote?  Arrogant thinking that there was no way any of the David's would have an idol at this point?

On one hand - it was 7-5. At best a split would have been 4-3, which in THIS case would have got their target out but in 99% of cases would have been foolish. The whole 'always split the vote' thing is fine... but you need twice the number of votes to do it in any way safely. 

On the other, in *this* case, they had an idol and a reasonably good idea (so they thought) of who the Davids were targetting. They could have spilt the votes and gone into tribal knowing they were playing the idol, but it a) means they HAVE to use an idol, no matter what and b) is still hugely risky if they get the target wrong (which they did). What the Davids did hasn't ever been done before, so I can't fault them for not anticipating it. 

[Nashville]

44 minutes ago, Lamima said:

What if the Davids didn't split the vote and all just put Angelina? What would have happened? A revote for any others except those 2 (Angelina and Christian) and Dan?

Current normal TC vote tie-breaking protocol is as follows:

1. A re-vote is conducted among all eligible voting players.
2. A second tie vote results in a rock draw for everybody except the tie vote recipients, and the player drawing the odd rock takes the Walk of Shame.  Basically, the rock draw is a punishment of the non-nominated players, for failing to come up with even a simple majority consensus.

That’s the normal protocol; in this particular case it would not apply, though, because there wasn’t actually a “tie”; both vote recipients in this specific case were idol-protected, so none of those votes would have counted against them.  In truth, the scenario you describe would not truly be considered a true “tie vote” - it would actually be a totally nullified vote, which is different.  

So - we’re on some fuzzy ground here, precedent-wise.  My best guess?

1. A second vote would be conducted - not as a re-vote, but as an original vote.  Nobody would be able to write down the name of a player with immunity (in this specific case Dan, Christian and Angelina), and the immunity-bearing players would all be eligible to participate in the vote.  No additional immunity elements (idols or advantages) could be played in this second vote.
2.  If this second vote resulted in a tie, then normal tiebreaking procedures would be invoked: a re-vote of the second vote, followed by a rock draw if necessary.  I expect the immunity-bearing players would be exempt from the rock draw, but I could be wrong.

In this specific case, though, I doubt the second vote would ever advance to the point of a rock draw.  Each original tribe would simply redirect their unanimous vote at a different opponent, and the Goliath-targeted David (Davie, most likely, since he screwed up their initial plan) would head for Ponderosa.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Nashville
Grammar

[ghoulina]

50 minutes ago, 303420 said:

Davie could have pulled this off on his own if he sold different stories to Carl and Nick about which advantage was being played, but that seems unnecessarily risky. Instead, I think Davie told one or both of Carl and Nick about the idol, and that person went along with the cover story that involved using their advantage. Gabby and Christian didn't even have to know all the details. If Nick assured Christian that he's got him covered, what's Christian gonna do, say FU? 

I think Davie and Carl and Nick have a threesome, possibly with Christian as their fourth (I agree that no one has him in their end game except maybe Gabby). Within that threesome there are possible twosomes.

To me, it doesn't even matter if Davie told ALL of the Davids. It's the fact that he didn't tell ANYONE until the Idol was actually necessary that I appreciate. He kept quiet. He waited. He saw an opportunity to use it to flip the game, and he went for it. Much better than these idiots who need to share that they have an Idol the minute they find it. 

[Nashville]

14 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

She was a newlywed on the show. John was engaged and got married shortly after returning.

Was Angelina already married?  I thought her earlier episode SO references were to a fiancé, not a husband, but I could very well be wrong.

[piequinn35]

11 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Was Angelina already married?  I thought her earlier episode SO references were to a fiancé, not a husband, but I could very well be wrong.

Her bio:

 

What's your reason for being on Survivor?
Survivor is the ultimate challenge of grit, savviness, and strategy. As a naturally competitive person, I want to test myself, my abilities and my limits. As a military spouse, I believe we are most of the strongest and most adaptable people.  <eye roll>

Edited November 15, 2018 by piequinn35

[Rachel RSL]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she said her husband was in the military therefore she knew all about military strategy. *eye roll*

[blackwing]

6 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Was Angelina already married?  I thought her earlier episode SO references were to a fiancé, not a husband, but I could very well be wrong.

She was married... she definitely referenced her husband in the marines which in her mind gave her the exceptional acumen she needed to communicate with the brohunks John and Dan.  In his confessional, Dan mocked her for thinking she was an expert in military strategy just because her husband was in the marines.

[303420]

14 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

For all we know, Davey pulled Christian aside and siad “Vote for John” and didn’t tell Christian why and Christian went along with it.

I think this is plausible (and it's my one point of disagreement with you, @Nashville; everything else in your posts has been on point). It doesn't really matter, though, because I think everyone involved is cool with the fact that everyone else is playing a game too.

[Bryce Lynch]

23 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I don't understand what the connection between being "low-key" and being unable to mount an insurrection.

When castaways play a low key game, where they are not doing a lot of open strategizing or otherwise drawing attention to themselves, other players will tend to not think of them as they types who would be likely to mount an insurrection.  

[amazingracefan]

2 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Yes, 6 to 5, I laughed when they cheered after Peach read John, the vote steal will be a huge advantage, the other advantage, I don't know, it will be hard to guess who has the HII and if he/she will use it, Dan was 1000% idiot for using that idol.

That Dan used an idol for someone else may give a clue that he has another.

Good result for me, John wasn't that interesting.  Gabby took a break from crying this episode.

[Special K]

I personally think all the Davids were fully in on the plan.  I went back and watched JP reading the votes, and the way they were reacting/celebrating (yes, even Gabby) said a lot.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

I get where people are coming from on this but I think it's a bit of Monday morning quarterbacking, or whatever the expression is.  If the Goliaths split their vote here the Davids don't need any idols at all, they just need to vote together.  How could they know they'd split their votes?  When, in the history of the show, has the minority alliance split their vote?  I can't think of a one before tonight.  Expecting people to be smart is one thing, but expecting them to be psychic is another.

Especially since to their knowledge, they'd done a great job of convincing the David's that they were going to vote out Angelina. And you know what, it seemed like they did. Because based on the editing, Christian sure seemed to believe it and Nick looked genuinely surprised when Alec told him that they were really gunning for Christian. So yeah, I can see why they wouldn't think to split the votes when they were positive that they'd snowed the David's and they were fairly convinced none of them had an idol. Because to his credit, unlike Dan who can't stop sharing, Davie really kept the fact that he had that idol to himself. No one in his own tribe had any inkling.

 

Quote

I am not sure who else might no about his second idol.

I'm pretty sure for that one he only told Kara.

 

Quote

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she said her husband was in the military therefore she knew all about military strategy. *eye roll*

As annoying as Dan can be at times, I was totally with him last week, when in his talking head he essentially said that Angelina needed to shut the hell up about military moves and strategy like she was actually in the military herself. I cracked up when he said, "your husband is a military man, you're not, so shut the hell up about it".

 

Quote

Mike paranoid-overthought THAT strategic play by a country mile, to his own detriment.  Since when has burning ALL your bridges equally been an effective winning strategy?  Stupid.

As annoying as I found him last night, I wouldn't say Mike has burned all his bridges just yet. Unless Alec and Alison rat him out for the secret six alliance, which they won't because they were in it for all of the second it lasted, to the other Goliath's, Mike is still very much with them. I guess Christian, if he realizes that Mike was the one gunning for him, can let the other Goliath's know about his double dealing but I think for right now, Mike is still a good number for the Goliaths. I can see the Davids targeting him though, with Christian and Nick now knowing how sneaky he is. On top of his spearheading the targeting of Christian, he tried to throw Gabby under the bus TO Christian, her closest ally.

 

Quote

Are Davie and the Davids are getting too much credit for the blindside? They seemed perfectly content with Angelina going home and it made sense, Goliath had the numbers and a two person advantage.  The Davids only did what they did because Alec told them that Christian was the real target.

Yes, they only knew about the plan to go for Christian because of Alec. But that still doesn't diminish the fact that one, Alec probably partly told because he really believed there was little they could do. And that's credit to Davie hiding his idol so well, Carl not letting on about his advantage and Nick with his advantage as well. On top of that, they then had to decide on what strategy would work best in terms of how to play the idol and who to gun for. Playing the idol for Christian was the easy part because they all knew he was a goner and that the Goliaths were solid on that.

But then they had to correctly predict that Dan might play his idol for Angelina when Davie played the idol for Christian and then strategically decide on the next best option to get rid of when the Angelina votes were voided. See John - strong guy, tight with Dan, another big threat who they couldn't go after because he had immunity, John was also very loyal to the Goliath Strong way of thinking, etc. So yes, Alec's spilling the beans got the ball rolling but there was still some good strategy on the part of the David's. And more importantly that they pulled it off without a single Goliath seeing it coming. Because you could tell that was shock on all their faces. 

 

Quote

Davie could have played things "safe" and went along with the Christian vote and kept his idol for himself.

Davie rightly realized that if they let the Christian vote happen, the odds of there being a Goliath split was far less likely and that there would most definitely be a Davids pagong. And sure he would have an idol to save himself for one tribal council but what happens after that? This move, especially with his knowing Nick has a "steal a vote" advantage, puts them square with the Goliaths. And Alec is itching to jump ship.

 

Quote

The bolded is exactly why he's a big threat.  He's not the obvious mental threat, as he's been trying to downplay that since the Day 1/Hour 1 challenge per his own words at this TC.  But he's a huge social threat.  Everyone seems to like him, and doesn't really want to vote him out...which means he could be able to "sneak" his way into FTC, then win because the jury all just like him so damn much.   And that's on top of his mental prowess and understated physical game (see a Secret Scene from a couple episodes ago about the Brochachos.  They all start doing pull ups on a tree limb, with Christian easily doing his in a fully-locked 90-degree angle seated position.)

I get the part about being likable. But that's the thing, in all the chatter of what a big threat Christian is, that's not what's being referenced. Now granted, it may just not being shown in the editing. But most of the talk seems to be that he's very smart and can basically outsmart and I guess outwit them all. I think Angelina, funny enough, had the reason closest to exactly what you're saying, in last week's episode when she said he was the biggest threat because he was the heart of the David's and if they got him out, it would demoralize the group.

We've certainly seen many seasons where people worry about a player who is too liked. And so I certainly get if that's what was being said about Christian. But the way Mike and company was talking, it really seemed more to do with their thinking he was just going to mastermind some epic take down of them all with his brilliant intelligence. And hey, maybe he will but like I said, from what the editing has shown so far, I don't think that's the case. But again, editing hides a lot and so there may be some reasons that we're not being shown that the Goliaths all so strongly seemed to believe this. 

[Jobiska]

Every time I think of Davie's stick-gymnastics I get a chuckle.

Nick did say "stick to what you were doing" but I thought it could be interpreted as "act like you don't know you're targeted; we're working on it."  I do think Davie did tell Nick about the idol, but maybe not Christian, but one of them could have told them to vote for John without telling him about the idol.

Angelina not plucking out her underarm hair, which I understand some Survivors in the past have done to while away the time, is one of the things I actually like about her.  I wish we had progressed further than Jenna and Heidi judging Christy (do I have her name right?) for not shaving.  

For one thing, shaving, waxing, etc. can lead to ingrown hairs, and we've seen how the tiniest injury can blow up on Survivor, especially in the heat they encounter and in such a friction-and-sweat-prone area.  How embarrassing to be medevaced for an infected armpit!  Anyway, I'm with the posters upthread who wish we had moved on from this sort of thing in the years since Amazon.  Unless one's going to judge all the contestants, gender aside, for shaving or not shaving!

I am just vaguely basing this on memories, with only one watch per episode, but I think a lot-to-all of the Goliaths knew about Dan's first idol, but probably only Kara about the second, but I don't think that any of the Davids knew, unless something happened that we didn't see like Mike telling Strikeforce (before he weaseled out on them).  So in a way Angelina's pleading basically "outed" his first idol to the entire tribe, making it less useful to him.  

I would not be sorry to see John on another Second Chances season.

[MissEwa]

12 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

Angelina not plucking out her underarm hair, which I understand some Survivors in the past have done to while away the time, is one of the things I actually like about her.  I wish we had progressed further than Jenna and Heidi judging Christy (do I have her name right?) for not shaving.  

For one thing, shaving, waxing, etc. can lead to ingrown hairs, and we've seen how the tiniest injury can blow up on Survivor, especially in the heat they encounter and in such a friction-and-sweat-prone area.  How embarrassing to be medevaced for an infected armpit!  Anyway, I'm with the posters upthread who wish we had moved on from this sort of thing in the years since Amazon.  Unless one's going to judge all the contestants, gender aside, for shaving or not shaving!
 

This. I remember when Hannah had underarm hair back in MvGenX and being quite impressed that it didn't seem to come up  at all - on the show or in the forums. I was actually surprised - and disappointed, I'll admit - to see the comments here about Angelina, and it got me to thinking: was it okay for Hannah because she was presented as a goofy, unattractive geek (despite being perfectly cute), but Angelina is supposed to be a Parvati-type 'pretty girl'? If so, that still kind of sucks. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

 On a shallow note, he’s adorable with that wink and I even like the toothpick in the mouth thing, he looks kinda cool. 

I have an instant irritation with anyone who sits around with a toothpick hanging out of his mouth. (And where in the hell did he get a toothpick anyway - did they let him bring his own supply?) It looks so nakedly pretentious like the guy thinks he's Clint Eastwood or something. I realize the guy is popular and made a great game play this week but the toothpick thing keeps me from fully embracing him, honestly.

What I want to know is if the idol-nullifying advantage could be used on whoever wins immunity in the challenge that week. Could they have used it to nullify the immunity Dan won that day, for example, and vote him out? Or can it only be used on hidden immunity idols?

[Nashville]

12 minutes ago, piequinn35 said:

Her bio:

 

What's your reason for being on Survivor?
Survivor is the ultimate challenge of grit, savviness, and strategy. As a naturally competitive person, I want to test myself, my abilities and my limits. As a military spouse, I believe we are most of the strongest and most adaptable people.  <eye roll>

My bad, then; back when Jeremy was making his allegations, I must’ve gotten Angelina “husband” references mixed up with John “fiancée” references.  Thanks for the clarification.

 

35 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

For all we know, Davey pulled Christian aside and siad “Vote for John” and didn’t tell Christian why and Christian went along with it. I suspect that Christian did know about the idol but I suspect it was a last minute discussion.

 

7 minutes ago, 303420 said:

I think this is plausible (and it's my one point of disagreement with you, @Nashville; everything else in your posts has been on point). It doesn't really matter, though, because I think everyone involved is cool with the fact that everyone else is playing a game too.

I get where y’all are coming from - really.  :)  It’s purely MHO that such a last-minute-grab “Christian - vote for John” explanation falls short of plausibility on several points:

1. Under such circumstances (impending doom possibly being diverted by a last-minute lifeline being thrown his way), I’d expect a normal Christian reaction would be for him play “small” - to shut up, sit quiet, hope whatever unknown machinations are going on behind scenes will deliver his game salvation, and above all else not fuck it up by throwing a wrench into the works.  Christian’s actions, though, were the exact opposite; he played BIG - repeatedly pointing out ALL the aspects which made him a big target, and in so doing emphasized them.  These were not the tentative actions of a person hoping for a possible reprieve - they were the confident actions of a person who knew his individual safety was on lock, and looked to draw fire away from any of his allies.
2. If we’re saying this was the act of a minimalist cabal (Davie and Nick - maybe Carl at most), then what about the rest of the Davids?  You’d expect Christian’s reaction to be one of shocked relief, and simple shock on the part of Gabby and (possibly) Carl - but the David reactions were uniformly smiles, not shock.  Nobody was surprised an ally had somehow been saved against all odds; they all reflected happiness that a plan had worked as intended.
3. Lastly - and I cannot emphasize this strongly enough - Gabby kept her mouth shut throughout the entirety of TC.  Look at Gabby’s last couple of TC performances; think she would’ve done this if she’d been under the impression her strongest ally was on the verge of grabbing a pizza at Ponderosa?

Like I said, though, purely MHO - YMMV.  Maybe we’ll find out at the beginning of next week's episode.  :) 

[cheewhiz]

18 hours ago, PaperTree said:

thought i saw a stack of about 6+ pizza boxes.

They were playing for a dozen pizzas - 2 pizzas per person

[blackwing]

After Mike and Dan's team lost the reward, as the others were going to get their pizza, one of them said something about "should we kill one of the chickens".  I was waiting for fallout on this decision if they actually did it.  There's often some kind of sour grapes drama about someone who lost a food reward going and killing one of the chickens which are supposed to be communal.  I very much doubt they would kill a chicken and save half of it for the pizza-eating half of the tribe.

39 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

I am just vaguely basing this on memories, with only one watch per episode, but I think a lot-to-all of the Goliaths knew about Dan's first idol, but probably only Kara about the second, but I don't think that any of the Davids knew, unless something happened that we didn't see like Mike telling Strikeforce (before he weaseled out on them).  So in a way Angelina's pleading basically "outed" his first idol to the entire tribe, making it less useful to him.  

I'm almost certain the Davids knew about Dan's idol.  I seem to remember Mike definitely telling someone, I think it was Nick , after the tribal swap.  Nick said "how do you know" and I thought Mike said "I saw it".  

22 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

This. I remember when Hannah had underarm hair back in MvGenX and being quite impressed that it didn't seem to come up  at all - on the show or in the forums. I was actually surprised - and disappointed, I'll admit - to see the comments here about Angelina, and it got me to thinking: was it okay for Hannah because she was presented as a goofy, unattractive geek (despite being perfectly cute), but Angelina is supposed to be a Parvati-type 'pretty girl'? If so, that still kind of sucks. 

I'd like to think it's because Angelina is arrogant and nasty and is getting a lot of negative feedback.

22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What I want to know is if the idol-nullifying advantage could be used on whoever wins immunity in the challenge that week. Could they have used it to nullify the immunity Dan won that day, for example, and vote him out? Or can it only be used on hidden immunity idols?

Well, I think the description called it an idol nullifier, meaning it can only be used on the hidden immunity idols.  The item that the contestants play for each week to gain individual immunity is called the immunity necklace, not the "individual immunity idol".  So apart from the fact that the language specifically refers to nullifying idols, the nullifier would be way more powerful if it could be used to nullify the necklace, essentially rendering the necklace useless.

Edited November 15, 2018 by blackwing

[MisterBluxom]

33 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I have an instant irritation with anyone who sits around with a toothpick hanging out of his mouth. (And where in the hell did he get a toothpick anyway - did they let him bring his own supply?) It looks so nakedly pretentious like the guy thinks he's Clint Eastwood or something. I realize the guy is popular and made a great game play this week but the toothpick thing keeps me from fully embracing him, honestly.

What I want to know is if the idol-nullifying advantage could be used on whoever wins immunity in the challenge that week. Could they have used it to nullify the immunity Dan won that day, for example, and vote him out? Or can it only be used on hidden immunity idols?

I understand how it can creep people out to see the toothpick hanging from his mouth. But I would encourage you to just forget about the toothpick if you can. It's really not that big a deal to let it prevent you from enjoying Davie's gameplay which has to be seen as some of the best ever. I'm hoping to see more good surprises from Davie and I would be very pleased if he won the million dollars. Go Davie!

As far as the idol-nullifying advantage go, I once posted that I thought the restrictions made it almost impossible to use and have any effect. Lemme see if I can remember all the restrictions:

According to ProfCrash:

The nullifier has to be played during the vote. Carl has to write the name of the persons whose idol he is nullifying on the nullifier and drop it in the voting urn. He has to have the correct person and the nullifier is only announced after idols are played.

I keep thinking that suppose someone like Christian is in danger of being voted out and I have an idol nullifier and want to protect Christian. Do you see the impossibility of my being able to protect Christian? Davie kept his idol secret. But I would have to correctly identify Davie as being the one playing the idol. The odds are so close to zero that I still think the idol nullifier is extremely unlikely to have any impact on the game. I think TPTB are just trying to introduce a gimmick with a low risk and I don't like it very much.

As far as using it on the winner of the weekly immunity, I don't think it has ever been made clear. But I'd have to guess that is highly unlikely since the immunity necklace has never been called an "idol" and I don't see how anyone could try to argue it should be deemed to be an idol.

Edited November 15, 2018 by MissBluxom

[gesundheit]

Lordie that was a great episode. Whenever people comment on Survivor reviews with an obnoxious "This show is still on? How?" can I just say -- because of episodes like THIS. Anyway. Even though it wasn't necessary, I think Dan made a good gambit playing an idol for Angelina. She's not a threat to win -- nobody likes her. And she'll vote with him. As for Mike... I unabashedly adore him because I love his work (no matter what, he gets a lifetime pass from me for writing Freaks & Geeks and Chuck & Buck), but I did get pretty mad at him last night. I get why he sees Christian as a threat -- even though one of them is a David and one a Goliath, they're actually the same archetype, and so Christian would take ultimate jury votes away from Mike. That said, I wish he'd realize he ain't gonna win this thing. Dude has MONEY. Serious money. Nobody's voting for him to win a million. (He didn't write the flippin' Emoji Movie for the love of the art.) So he should just have some fun and mix things up. (Though I don't blame anyone for being competitive and at least wanting to make it to the F3.)

[blackwing]

14 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

As far as the idol-nullifying advantage go, I once posted that I thought the restrictions made it almost impossible to use and have any effect. Lemme see if I can remember all the restrictions:

According to ProfCrash:

The nullifier has to be played during the vote. Carl has to write the name of the persons whose idol he is nullifying on the nullifier and drop it in the voting urn. He has to have the correct person and the nullifier is only announced after idols are played.

I keep thinking that suppose someone like Christian is in danger of being voted out and I have an idol nullifier and want to protect Christian. Do you see the impossibility of my being able to protect Christian? Davie kept his idol secret. But I would have to correctly identify Davie as being the one playing the idol. The odds are so close to zero that I still think the idol nullifier is extremely unlikely to have any impact on the game. I think TPTB are just trying to introduce a gimmick with a low risk and I don't like it very much.

 

I don't think the nullifier is used on the person playing the idol.  It is used on the person who the idol is exercised on.  For example, if Carl had wanted to nullify last night's Goliath idol, he wouldn't say he is nullifying Dan's idol.  If that was the case, and it's common knowledge that Dan had an idol, then it's much more powerful since it would nullify the use of Dan's idol no matter who he played it for.  I think Carl would have had to write down that he wanted to nullify the use of the idol on Angelina in order for it to work.

I think the successful use of the nullifier will have to depend on 1) secrecy and 2) gathering of information.  None of the Goliaths know that Carl has the nullifier.  Then if someone like Alec told the Davids that the Goliaths were going to use an idol on Angelina, then Carl could nullify it.  Also, as the numbers dwindle there are less possible options to have to guess correctly on.  I would presume the nullifier can be used up until the point the hidden immunity idols can be used, which I believe is F5?

Edited November 15, 2018 by blackwing

[MisterBluxom]

15 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I don't think the nullifier is used on the person playing the idol.  It is used on the person who the idol is exercised on.  For example, if Carl had wanted to nullify last night's Goliath idol, he wouldn't say he is nullifying Dan's idol.  If that was the case, and it's common knowledge that Dan had an idol, then it's much more powerful since it would nullify the use of Dan's idol no matter who he played it for.  I think Carl would have had to write down that he wanted to nullify the use of the idol on Angelina in order for it to work.

 

OK. I think I may have found the answer. According to the following link, ProfCrash is correct and the person using the nullifier must identify the person who is using the idol - not the person it is being played for.

https://hollywoodlife.com/2018/09/26/survivor-idol-nullifier-david-vs-goliath-twist-season-37/

But take a look for yourself. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong and I bet this HollywoodLife site has also been wrong. Here is what they said:

The nullifier ONLY works if the person it’s played against uses the idol at that vote.

Here’s how Jeff Probst explained it to The Hollywood Reporter: “The situation would be — someone is at camp with an idol nullifier. They think you have an idol, or they know you have an idol, and they think you’re going to play it tonight. They’re trying to get you to play it. They have the nullifier. When they go up to vote, they have a decision to make. If they decide to play it, in private, where no one can see them, they’ll say: ‘I’m playing this idol nullifier against Josh playing his idol.’ They write your name down, and drop it in the urn. It comes time to read the votes, and you stand up and play your idol. You dance around, super proud and you bring it over to me. I’ll say, ‘This is a hidden immunity idol.’ Then, I’ll reach into the urn, ‘And this is an idol nullifier. Any votes cat against Josh WILL count.'”

[violet and green]

19 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Tip of the hat to the editors. Usually, I take shots at them for their transparency but this had to be the first time in years that they managed to blindside....the audience!

That was so refreshing to finally have a boot that was totally out of nowhere and not telegraphed at all!

And since I am in a great mood because of this let me say also the last few episodes they've come up with some great new challenges! That sandbag thing tonight looked like something Jigsaw would have devised in a SAW movie only it would have been battery acid or something instead of water....Do you want to play a game!

Then say a big thank you to the producers, editors, and challenge builders of Australian Survivor! They are not just taking a leaf but ripping pages out of the current Aus Survivor book, including that particular challenge and a less patented paint-by-numbers edit.

Man, that was good! Sorry to see the Mayor go, rather than Angelina - but that was good. Apart from Alec, I am all in for the Davids. Battle stations ahead!

[blackwing]

23 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

 

OK. I think I may have found the answer. According to the following link, ProfCrash is correct and the person using the nullifier must identify the person who is using the idol - not the person it is being played for.

https://hollywoodlife.com/2018/09/26/survivor-idol-nullifier-david-vs-goliath-twist-season-37/

But take a look for yourself. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong and I bet this HollywoodLife site has also been wrong. Here is what they said:

The nullifier ONLY works if the person it’s played against uses the idol at that vote.

Here’s how Jeff Probst explained it to The Hollywood Reporter: “The situation would be — someone is at camp with an idol nullifier. They think you have an idol, or they know you have an idol, and they think you’re going to play it tonight. They’re trying to get you to play it. They have the nullifier. When they go up to vote, they have a decision to make. If they decide to play it, in private, where no one can see them, they’ll say: ‘I’m playing this idol nullifier against Josh playing his idol.’ They write your name down, and drop it in the urn. It comes time to read the votes, and you stand up and play your idol. You dance around, super proud and you bring it over to me. I’ll say, ‘This is a hidden immunity idol.’ Then, I’ll reach into the urn, ‘And this is an idol nullifier. Any votes cat against Josh WILL count.'”

Hmmm, interesting.  I note however that in this scenario, Josh played the idol for himself.  He doesn't say what would happen if Josh played it for James.  I wonder if that's because it is assumed that Josh's idol is completely nullified no matter who he played it for.  Or if the scenario didn't come up at all, meaning that if the nullifier gets used in a future ep that it is used on someone who played the idol for themselves?

[fishcakes]

46 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I don't think the nullifier is used on the person playing the idol.  It is used on the person who the idol is exercised on.  For example, if Carl had wanted to nullify last night's Goliath idol, he wouldn't say he is nullifying Dan's idol.  If that was the case, and it's common knowledge that Dan had an idol, then it's much more powerful since it would nullify the use of Dan's idol no matter who he played it for.  I think Carl would have had to write down that he wanted to nullify the use of the idol on Angelina in order for it to work.

I'm pretty sure this is right. The idol is nullifed for the person the idol is being played for, whether that's oneself or another player. Here's the text of the note that Carl got with the nullifier:

Quote

This is an idol nullifier. It blocks the use of an idol by any other player.

Here's how it works:

You will play this in secret when you vote at Tribal Council. Write the name of the person you want to block from using an idol. If an idol is played for them, this advantage will nullify the idol.

Edited November 15, 2018 by fishcakes