S15.E07: Anybody Have a Map?

[maddie965]

Is it me, or does this show condones violence as a legitimate way to express your feelings? Something to be admired, and not criticized, much less punished? We saw it with Alex, and now with Richard. Alex was worse, of course, but the principle is the same: if you're angry, it's OK to use violence to make your point. I hated the smashing bar scene. All that violence scared the hell out of me. I was really afraid Richard was going to attack the bar owner. And no, that wouldn't be OK. What the guy is doing is wrong, so someone should tell the authorities. Violence is not the answer. Violence is never the answer, no matter what the writers on this show want to make us believe.

For me, this whole episode seemed forced. Like they were showing plaques to me telling me when to cry or feel stuff. The music was cringe worthy. That nurse-that-we're-supposed-to-love made me think I was watching the wrong show. Catherine being sick was stupid. How many doctors with tumors can there be in the same show? Maggie and Jackson are the most frustrating couple there ever was.

Just on ray of sunshine in all this: Koracick. We need more of him. I every episode;

[moonorchid]

4 hours ago, WalrusGirl said:

From April’s perspective, sure, and even at face value, but...less so when Jackson flat out says he’s also grieving finding faith too late for him and April to work. (Not that that was the proximal cause of their split, but I get where he’s coming from. And while that’s *useful* and relevant information for his current significant other...ouch. I think he was pretty genuinely over April before her car accident with Matthew, but less so now with his own sudden faith and her marriage to someone who shares hers.)

Yeah, that’s my thing. If he hasn’t tried to get deeper with her (beyond excited rambles that come off as sudden marriage proposals), AND hasn’t talked to her about how talking about this stuff is important to him, that’s on him. Instead he opted to let her think he and they were great from his perspective and to fill those other needs with other women without a conversation or heads up. She didn’t cover herself in glory when she got overwhelmed, and really fair enough if that’s a dealbreaker for Jackson, but he was still already in the wrong in dealbreaker territory too. ??‍♀️

It just confuses me if we’re actually supposed to be rooting for them. I’m not a Japril romantic shipper, because they kind of sucked to one another, and I wasn’t appalled at Jaggie, but he’s been lousy to her so far this season, and she’s pretty fundamentally unable to meet HIS needs, AND they don’t have the massive chemistry and moments to make up for it (like Mer/Der back in the early years, when at least Mer also had really good reasons for being limited that Derek understood).

I think Jackson had accepted that him and April were too fundementally different to work out after all that transpired and he was embarking on something new so that’s alwahs exciting. The love was still there but he logic’d His way out of his romantic relationship with april. But now he’s accepted something that has created a gulf between them and knowing now that he could have a better understanding with the love of his life (my opinion), but it’s too late. That must be devastating. Now if you go by what krista wrote for ew, what Jackson is doing is more reflection than regret. Imo that’s not what happened on screen but I alwahs admit to having a bias. 

Also, you’re definitely supposed to be rooting for jaggie and having major sympathy for maggie. That’s not my opinion, that pretty much what krista said. 

[maddie965]

I would find Jackson's journey interesting if April was still in the picture. That could have been fascinating. As it is, not so much. And yes, he failed in communicating his needs to Maggie. But she admits she was never open to that discussion. "God is not my thing" is not an answer. If she knows how difficult it is fo her to have emocional intimacy with someone, she has to work on it. Hard. Go do some therapy. Listen when the person you love is talking to you, even when it's painful. Try to understand. Tell him how that makes you feel. Talk about what you can do as a couple. That's what adults do. We deal. We do not run and tell our friends the world is ending.

Edited November 11, 2018 by maddie965

[readster]

1 hour ago, maddie965 said:

I would find Jackson's journey interesting if April was still in the picture. That could have been fascinating. As it is, not so much. And yes, he failed in communicating his needs to Maggie. But she admits she was never open to that discussion. "God is not my thing" is not an answer. If she knows how difficult it is fo her to have emocional intimacy with someone, she has to work on it. Hard. Go do some therapy. Listen when the person you love is talking to you, even when it's painful. Try to understand. Tell him how that makes you feel. Talk about what you can do as a couple. That's what adults do. We deal. We do not run and tell our friends the world is ending.

The problem with Maggie is ever since she showed up on the show, they keep going: "I was always head of everyone book wise, but not emotional wise." You are in your middle 30s now (thanks for the correction) it's time to be an adult." Maggie doesn't want to try and be a emotionally grown up. She rather walk out or as Jackson said: "You go buy milk." Which comes off as more ADD than avoiding conversation. Yet, Maggie wants to quickly point out how no one else wants to face their problems like: Amelia, Teddy, Owen, Miranda, ect. Her entire handling of knowing Teddy was pregnant with Owen's child was like a little girl who saw a murder and was told: "Don't tell anyone, or I will kill you." Instead she argues with Owen over something he has no idea over. She can't stand the secret or HIPPA and tells Meredith. Now, her thing with Jackson is: "God is not my thing." It's just crap and if anything after last season. If one thing Maggie should be confronting is her adoptive father going: "Why the hell did mom think you were smothering her? You are a great dad?" However, that's been completely dropped just like Thatcher being talked about dying and Meredith is: "Well, he disappeared after Lexi die and my other sister? Who is that, I haven't seen her since season 3." 

[moonorchid]

4 hours ago, readster said:

The problem with Maggie is ever since she showed up on the show, they keep going: "I was always head of everyone book wise, but not emotional wise." You are in your middle 30s now (thanks for the correction) it's time to be an adult." Maggie doesn't want to try and be a emotionally grown up. She rather walk out or as Jackson said: "You go buy milk." Which comes off as more ADD than avoiding conversation. Yet, Maggie wants to quickly point out how no one else wants to face their problems like: Amelia, Teddy, Owen, Miranda, ect. Her entire handling of knowing Teddy was pregnant with Owen's child was like a little girl who saw a murder and was told: "Don't tell anyone, or I will kill you." Instead she argues with Owen over something he has no idea over. She can't stand the secret or HIPPA and tells Meredith. Now, her thing with Jackson is: "God is not my thing." It's just crap and if anything after last season. If one thing Maggie should be confronting is her adoptive father going: "Why the hell did mom think you were smothering her? You are a great dad?" However, that's been completely dropped just like Thatcher being talked about dying and Meredith is: "Well, he disappeared after Lexi die and my other sister? Who is that, I haven't seen her since season 3." 

I didn’t even think about that hypocricy of how maggie deals with her problems and how she judges teddy for how she’s dealing with hers. I didn’t think of it now but it’s something that’s been prevalent with her since we’ve known her. She’s incredibly judgy with no real legs to stand on. 

reading Kristas article on ew explaining all her motivations and intent, there’s a huge disconnect between what she meant and what we saw. Like april is such a non factor to Krista but I don’t know how one watches Jackson in the scene and not think april is a huge deal to him still. 

[WhosThatGirl]

4 hours ago, moonorchid said:

I didn’t even think about that hypocricy of how maggie deals with her problems and how she judges teddy for how she’s dealing with hers. I didn’t think of it now but it’s something that’s been prevalent with her since we’ve known her. She’s incredibly judgy with no real legs to stand on. 

reading Kristas article on ew explaining all her motivations and intent, there’s a huge disconnect between what she meant and what we saw. Like april is such a non factor to Krista but I don’t know how one watches Jackson in the scene and not think april is a huge deal to him still. 

Wait, what? April isn’t a huge deal in

jacksons story right now? He’s talked about her quite a bit so far this season. She feels like such a big entity in Jackson’s story because she kind of is. I don’t understand how she isnt important at this point. 

[WinJet0819]

10 hours ago, readster said:

The problem with Maggie is ever since she showed up on the show, they keep going: "I was always head of everyone book wise, but not emotional wise." You are in your middle 30s now (thanks for the correction) it's time to be an adult." Maggie doesn't want to try and be a emotionally grown up. She rather walk out or as Jackson said: "You go buy milk." Which comes off as more ADD than avoiding conversation. Yet, Maggie wants to quickly point out how no one else wants to face their problems like: Amelia, Teddy, Owen, Miranda, ect. Her entire handling of knowing Teddy was pregnant with Owen's child was like a little girl who saw a murder and was told: "Don't tell anyone, or I will kill you." Instead she argues with Owen over something he has no idea over. She can't stand the secret or HIPPA and tells Meredith. Now, her thing with Jackson is: "God is not my thing." It's just crap and if anything after last season. If one thing Maggie should be confronting is her adoptive father going: "Why the hell did mom think you were smothering her? You are a great dad?" However, that's been completely dropped just like Thatcher being talked about dying and Meredith is: "Well, he disappeared after Lexi die and my other sister? Who is that, I haven't seen her since season 3." 

Maggie is just utterly hard to watch. I can see why Jackson spoke to other people about his feelings. Maggie can't seem to handle anything without breaking. She thinks Jackson is proposing, and she runs out and buys milk. She violates HIPAA and blabs to Meredith because SHE has the problem with Teddy carrying Owen's child and not telling him. Her Mom comes to visit her and she throws a fit because she thinks her mother is needing plastic surgery, and wants her mother back. She can't handle DeLuca trying to break it off with her and drives to the hospital to confront him because she can't sleep.

Her behavior is like an adolescent teenager. She completely overreacts to everything. When she first came onto the show, she was all business, and it probably would have served her character better to not be Meredith's half-sister and Ellis and Richard's forgotten child. Now, she's just an absolute drama queen.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think the April / Jackson relationship was doomed when their son died, and instead of grieving together, and growing their relationship, they went their separate ways.    I don't see Maggie as an adult, capable of having adult relationships with anyone.    If your partner isn't someone you can communicate with, then your relationship isn't going to last.    

[marykat71702]

I was surprised when they said that Frankie was only 28 weeks pregnant. It looked like an 8-9 month pregnant belly to me.

I really hope they put Tom and Meredith together, I love how they interact with each other.

Maggie can go at any time, she is unbearable.

I like Richard's storyline so far, but am waiting to see how they handle the fallout from him smashing the bar up. The chips for shots idea was horrible.

Who wants to bet that Alex and Jo adopt Frankie's baby? 

Honestly did not miss CC, HOAG, Glasses, or Helm in this episode. If they never showed up again, I would be ok with it.

I knew Catherine was the one with the tumor as soon as she started describing "the patient". Meredith was 100% correct in saying that Richard had a right to know, or however she put it.

[marykat71702]

On 11/8/2018 at 11:25 PM, bybrandy said:

Wasn't Frankie in the first episode this season?  Maybe not the first episode but I swear there was a pregnant nurse complain about Karev not having the schedule done correctly earlier in the season.   

She's been in a couple of episodes. 

[WalrusGirl]

17 hours ago, maddie965 said:

If she knows how difficult it is fo her to have emocional intimacy with someone, she has to work on it. Hard. Go do some therapy. Listen when the person you love is talking to you, even when it's painful. Try to understand. Tell him how that makes you feel. Talk about what you can do as a couple.

Yeah. At least if she *wants* to be better at it - there are men (and women, but as Maggie’s straight) who would be ok with, and even need themselves, the less emotional relationship. If she doesn’t want to seek out that kind of compatible relationship, she’s gotta do some work to meet Jackson (or anyone) at some mutually agreeable midpoint. Or, now that she knows (the key to Jaskson’s wrongness), be ok with his filling those needs elsewhere, with either gender, if that’s also an acceptable compromise to him.

15 hours ago, readster said:

However, that's been completely dropped just like Thatcher being talked about dying and Meredith is: "Well, he disappeared after Lexi die and my other sister? Who is that, I haven't seen her since season 3." 

I always hope they’ll remember she exists!! I remember Lexie once acknowledging that they hadn’t retconned Molly out of existence; she was abroad (Japan?) with her military spouse at the time.

Edited November 12, 2018 by WalrusGirl
Corrected bolding

[IrishPirate]

This episode had all the hallmarks of "Whoops! We've overspent the budget already. Give the stars the week off and we'll take this cheaper detour here." Ugh.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, IrishPirate said:

This episode had all the hallmarks of "Whoops! We've overspent the budget already. Give the stars the week off and we'll take this cheaper detour here." Ugh.

I don't know the details of all the Grey's Anatomy cast members' contracts, but the standard tv contract for series regulars on American shows guarantees that an actor gets paid regardless of whether they actually appear in the episode or not.

[CountryGirl]

So can Jaggie please be done now?

I know we'll never get SD/April back (although a gal can dream) and I know Jackson didn't handle things perfectly, but even if he had, I have the feeling Maggie would have ran off like the infant she is just the same.

I'm an admitted Japril fan, but I could have accepted Jackson moving on with someone I felt was right for him, but this myopic child isn't it. And I liked Maggie initially and thought she had good chemistry with DeLuca and even some spark recently with Station19 guy, but she and Jackson are the epitome of anti-chemistry and TPTB need to stop forcing Jaggie down our throats.

Edited November 12, 2018 by CountryGirl

[izabella]

13 hours ago, marykat71702 said:

Who wants to bet that Alex and Jo adopt Frankie's baby? 

A number of posters have said this, but I really don't understand why.  Is there some reason people think they would adopt a baby?

[Efzee]

Isn't it about time for another disaster at the hospital, leading to the death of a couple of interns/residents and at least one major character? I nominate Maggie and, if they intend on keeping Jackson the way they're writing him now, he can die too.

[RedbirdNelly]

19 hours ago, Efzee said:

Isn't it about time for another disaster at the hospital, leading to the death of a couple of interns/residents and at least one major character? I nominate Maggie and, if they intend on keeping Jackson the way they're writing him now, he can die too.

I nominate Glasses for the dead intern, Oh please let it be him. I want characters that actually look like they have the sense to graduate from medical school.

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I nominate Glasses for the dead intern, Oh please let it be him. I want characters that actually look like they have the sense to graduate from medical school.

Tragically, if there is a dead intern, it won't be he.  Krista seems to like the actor/character too much.  Since she is also completely enamored of the Jackson/Maggie pairing, I must sadly conclude that she is delusional and has truly shitty taste.

[proserpina65]

On ‎11‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 9:00 PM, SimoneS said:

Just dump him, Maggie. Jackson is a spoilt self-indulgent manchild who is attempting to justify his horrible behavior by putting it onto her. He runs away and is now having emotional affairs with two other women at the same time. April's marriage clearly won't last long at this rate which isn't a surprise. Jackson is an ass. Maggie can do better and deserves better. I liked her better with DeLuca anyway.

Richard was ridiculous smashing up that bar. I can't bring myself to care about Catherine's cancer because I am sure that she will be fine.

I don't call Jackson communicating with the mother of his child an emotional affair, although admitting that he'd still be with April if he'd found God earlier was not very nice.  (Sidenote: as an agnostic, I absolutely hate them having Jackson find God.  Can't one non-believer stay around?)

I do agree that Maggie was a better fit with DeLuca; she didn't act nearly as immature with him.

 

On ‎11‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 9:42 AM, deaja said:

I think this bugs me more than the rest of it. Another storyline to just be resolved with no consequences. (See also- Maggie HIPAA, Alex assault, and a thousand other examples going back to Cristina and Burke covering his tremor).

Izzie and the LVAD

[proserpina65]

On ‎11‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 10:01 AM, AriAu said:

In real life, Richard would have to pay to fix the bar and then get some kind of probation and it would have little, if any affect on his medical license.....far less than if he had donethe shots! In this show, there will likely be even less.

A conviction might have an impact on his medical license, and he'd have a conviction if he had to pay fines, costs & restitution and was on probation.

Okay, I just looked this up, and the answer is: it depends.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I don't call Jackson communicating with the mother of his child an emotional affair, although admitting that he'd still be with April if he'd found God earlier was not very nice.  (Sidenote: as an agnostic, I absolutely hate them having Jackson find God.  Can't one non-believer stay around?)

I do agree that Maggie was a better fit with DeLuca; she didn't act nearly as immature with him.

 

Izzie and the LVAD

 I started to list the LVAD  situation, but at least she was without a job for about half a season and had to do counseling when she came back.   Those consequences are not nearly enough, but at least they were consequences. 

[Layne]

On 11/12/2018 at 9:55 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't know the details of all the Grey's Anatomy cast members' contracts, but the standard tv contract for series regulars on American shows guarantees that an actor gets paid regardless of whether they actually appear in the episode or not.

Only for 22 episodes though apparently?

[skermac]

I am really starting to HATE shondaland, I mean save the baby and kill the mom, really? is it too hard to give a happy outcome once in a while, I get the show is about drama, but all we seem to get is death.  Jaggie seems to whine about everything, Jackson should probably leave her, she is enough to get on anyones last nerve, she didn't used to be this bad

[marykat71702]

On 11/12/2018 at 11:52 AM, izabella said:

A number of posters have said this, but I really don't understand why.  Is there some reason people think they would adopt a baby?

No particular reason, really, other than to give them a new storyline. <shrug>

[Court]

On 11/8/2018 at 8:55 PM, Joana said:

Yeah, she was extremely annoying/immature, but then Jackson basically told her he'd still be with April if only he had found God earlier. But he loves HER, make no mistake. Which is just... no. This storyline is a complete mess and I have no idea where they're going with this. 

It honestly makes sense. I really related to Jackson. He's grieving his marriage. He didn't allow himself to do that when he should have. At the same time, he fell in love with Maggie. (Not that I buy this pairing or that he really loves her but I do understand how it happens.) 

I grieved my marriage while moving on. I realize that these are two contradictory feelings but it is what it is. 

[Efzee]

On 15-11-2018 at 6:38 AM, Court said:

It honestly makes sense. I really related to Jackson. He's grieving his marriage. He didn't allow himself to do that when he should have. At the same time, he fell in love with Maggie. (Not that I buy this pairing or that he really loves her but I do understand how it happens.) 

I grieved my marriage while moving on. I realize that these are two contradictory feelings but it is what it is. 

I'm still wondering what, if anything, either of them loves about the other... they keep going on about how much they love each other (or profess their love for the other to someone else) but I've yet to hear anything other than Jackson's list about why Maggie is a great, talented, awesome or whatever else kind of person when she's doubting herself.

[Chas411]

On 15 November 2018 at 5:38 AM, Court said:

e's grieving his marriage. He didn't allow himself to do that when he should have.

Because he was too busy staring ~meaningfully at Maggie and making grand declarations while essentially treating April like crap. I don't have that much sympathy for Jackson. He and April were a car crash near the end and she made an exhausting number of mistakes but I hated his air of superiority and rudeness to her while at the same time being all sleezily sweet to Maggie. I'm glad the fantasy is over for him while she's moved on. 

[moonorchid]

2 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Because he was too busy staring ~meaningfully at Maggie and making grand declarations while essentially treating April like crap. I don't have that much sympathy for Jackson. He and April were a car crash near the end and she made an exhausting number of mistakes but I hated his air of superiority and rudeness to her while at the same time being all sleezily sweet to Maggie. I'm glad the fantasy is over for him while she's moved on. 

I’m not going to lie, the one thing I’m loving about everything that’s happened is that now Jackson is being called to task (by fans) for all his sh*t! April made so many mistakes and effed up but Jackson wasn’t a victim and he’s never been called out like he has been these last few weeks. 

[renatae]

On 11/10/2018 at 8:09 AM, lorbeer said:

Why punishment for them? I know Heigl's story with the Grammy but I think it happened later than their characters' relationship in the show

Please dish on the Grammy story! I am post Heigl with this show and I have no clue. I only started watching it because I learned she was part if it, but ironically, she had already left. I think I read here before that she was considered difficult to deal with.

Thanks!

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, renatae said:

Please dish on the Grammy story!

Here's the forum topic. 

[renatae]

Thanks!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 11/10/2018 at 6:09 AM, lorbeer said:

Why punishment for them? I know Heigl's story with the Grammy but I think it happened later than their characters' relationship in the show.

 

12 hours ago, renatae said:

Please dish on the Grammy story! I am post Heigl with this show and I have no clue. I only started watching it because I learned she was part if it, but ironically, she had already left. I think I read here before that she was considered difficult to deal with.

Thanks!

FYI - it was the Emmys. Grammys are for music so the closest that Katherine Heigl is probably ever going to get to a Grammy is her brother in law (his band has won seven).

[lorbeer]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

FYI - it was the Emmys. Grammys are for music so the closest that Katherine Heigl is probably ever going to get to a Grammy is her brother in law (his band has won seven).

Oh my God.. I can't even believe it I made that mistake ;D. Well... thanks for the correction ;)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

21 hours ago, lorbeer said:

Oh my God.. I can't even believe it I made that mistake ;D. Well... thanks for the correction ;)

Hahaha, no worries. There are a million awards shows out there!

If she ends up starting a singing career or winning a Grammy for narrating a book you can pat yourself on the back for being psychic!

Edited November 18, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[lorbeer]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Hahaha, no worries. There are a million awards shows out there!

If she ends up starting a singing career or winning a Grammy for narrating a book you can pat yourself on the back for being psychic!

Too bad she didn't last long enough to participate in the musical episode so we don't know if she can even sing ;)

[MamaBird]

On 11/9/2018 at 12:35 PM, Chas411 said:

The way Jacksons treating Maggie is pretty much in line with how he's treated both Stephanie and April. He loves the chase, the "emotional" connection at the beginning. With Maggie last season he was so enamoured by her it almost came off as sleazy. While he was all sweet with Maggie he was being a complete dick to April. Now he has Maggie and her ~cutesy ranting I'm not not perfect (but really i am) shtick has worn off and they're in a relationship where the chase is over he's kind of over it.

This is a good point.  I wonder if maybe he's like Don Draper - as Dr. Faye said, he "only likes the beginning of things".

[Chas411]

I think the show might have finally lost me. Such a boring, draining and depressing episode. 

[Daisy]

I'm finally catching up. (it hit me - LOL i didn't finish watching the season , so there we go.).. 

I know that there is a lot of of people who hate Maggie. I'm not the biggest Maggie fan - but i mentioned this before, but I get Maggie - or rather i get some of the emotional struggles. I am curious if she was really hurt within a relationship (Like really, your soul has been torn out of your body crushed) to the fact that she bolts?

Because I will admit, I have. and because of it it makes me really apprehensive how i approach men whom I might be in a relationship with. I pretty much preemptive strike the heartache by workingout how it will be in my head - sort of - when it happens (because of my history), it won't hurt so much. but it does hurt because - it's human nature to let down the walls, and start to love/trust someone. and you don't think you're doing little things to maybe end something. (or maybe you don't even do it).

and i think - that's sort of the nuances that Maggie is missing. this is so far beyond "being emotionally behind." like. something is causing Maggie to close up shop emotionally, beyond her mom, beyond being young. 
 

there's a lot of other stuff that are issues (between both Maggie and Jackson)  that should seriously be addressed (Ie: why doesn't Jackson tell her everything, why does he always love the chase, but when things get serious he finds another chase to do - why didn't he tell her that she pulls away - sometimes it's subconscience etc etc)  -again maybe a lot of this is based on the actors/chemistry, but i just feel i have to sort of stand up for Maggie - because I feel at times I am a Maggie type (and it would bug me so much if people hated me because of my emotional damaged past and how that manifests). 

(though it would be great of show - to actually explain a lot of it outside of "imma younger than everyone else).