S05.E06: We Can Find Him

[Bort]

Annalise receives a call from Governor Birkhead, and she’s forced to weigh an interesting offer, while Bonnie reunites with her sister looking for answers from what happened years ago. Connor and Oliver try to keep their cool while their mothers are in town helping with wedding plans, and Tegan surprisingly enlists Laurel’s help on a big case at the firm.

Airdate: Thursday, November 1, 2018

[Annber03]

Oh, damn, I was afraid that ending was coming the moment he started writing that letter. I was sitting here like, "Oh, no, no, no...". That's really sad and sucky. After all that hard work and effort. I can just imagine how Annalise will react to that. 

In happier topics, I really like Oliver's mom. The scene with Oliver telling her about being HIV positive was really well done and emotional, and I liked her talk with Connor, too. I'm looking forward to seeing more of her as the wedding date gets ever closer. 

Also liked everything with Bonnie and Julie this episode, heartbreaking though it all is. What a family. 

[stonehaven]

Wow...that ending.....I was not expecting that...I loved Ollie with his mom...other than that, I got nothing really...

[Dee]

Liza Weil is the MVP of this season.

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, so we get some backstory on Oliver (finally!) and we get to meet his mom. And y'know? She's pretty cool, and I liked Oliver. I totally forgot about his HIV-Positive stuff, so I was wondering what got him so worried, but it worked...kind of. Joanna Hampton is pretty darn great. I hope she's not the dead body in the flashforward. I loved her scenes with Oliver as well as Connor. 

Ok....I'm gonna admit it. I could see Annalise getting played by a mile away. Why the hell didn't Annalise see herself getting played? I feel like it's totally obvious that the Governor orchestrated Nate Lahey Sr's death. I don't know whether it was because I just saw Timothy Hutton in Haunting of Hill House or because Emmett was finally written as a decent character, but I was cheering HIM on over Annalise. Sure, he had his own motives behind wanting Annalise to stay, but he was right. I'm glad Tegan stood up for Annalise. Having that scene with Emmett, and then seeing Emmett go to Annalise, really helped me like Caplan and Gold a bit more. It was the first time I was interested in the firm. 

I just can't with Annalise's idiocy. She only took the deal because of Nate's dad getting pardoned, but she should have seen that there was a catch. I'm not exactly sure why Annalise kept making really big mistakes this episode. I don't know whether it's because she was distracted by the Bonnie stuff or she was focused on fixing the system or what.

So, Laurel is brought in to the Gabriel stuff, but we still don't know what it could be. 

Miller's in the flashforward! It SEEMS like it's after the whole dead body fiasco, so he COULD be safe? And he's ready to propose! Which ups his chances at dying at some point this season, even if it's not in the finale. Or he's going to hurt Bonnie somehow. 

As for the Bonnie's son stuff.....so I take it that this is confirmation that Gabriel is NOT Bonnie's son? Not that I think Julie is being truthful about Bonnie's kid being dead, but more that Frank's involvement with Gabriel and now with Bonnie makes it seem like Gabriel isn't her son, after all. But I'm honestly still not quite sure. 

Back to Nate Sr...it sucks for him, it does. I can't say I liked that storyline but it does suck that he never got to be free. I guess we can now say that Nate likely goes rogue to try to avenge his father by searching for his killer in the finale. 

[UNOSEZ]

Im sure TPTB didn't mean for it to feel like Anna took the deal just to get Nate sr out... But it sure felt like it and as everyone watching could see it was a bad idea I'm kinda shaking my head... They really need to explain who Gabriel is because I can't really focus until I get an idea as to who's kid he is.. Frank said he's protecting ( Anna?)  So which one of her female enemies.. The only enemies I can think of are sam's sister and Mrs. Mahoney and I dunno how either of those ladies would hide a lil mixed race child and it be a total secret... So I'm confused and ready to get it over with.  Especially if he's not gonna be Bonnie's kid

[possibilities]

Wait... did Frank do the right thing this week, without being told what it is?

I was so relieved that Oliver's mother didn't leap to the erroneous conclusion that Oliver got HIV from Connor, nor did it seem to matter to her whether he did.

It's way too soon for the DA to propose to Bonnie. That's insane. He seems like a decent and sincere person so far, but seriously-- they don't know each other long enough.

I hate the governor. I don't like that Annalise was so unseated by her. She's not usually that trusting, and it just struck me as out of character. But the way it happened does explain and justify that scene where she's wailing on the floor. If there's ANOTHER tragedy that brought that on, then next week's episode is going to be one hell of a heartbreaker.

Also, isn't it corrupt to offer a pardon in exchange for what, essentially, was a job/political favor? Anna should have known better.

Are we to believe that Julie buried the kid alive and then the people found him and adopted and raised him? Or is she still lying? And does it even matter? If I was Bonnie, I would not be asking Julie any more questions. You can't get info from a liar. If they have the address of the kid's home, and it's only 20 minutes away, why even bother with Julie? Just look into it directly.

Gabriel... is he related to the evil governor? Is he related to Wes? For a minute I thought he might be related to the Leahy case. Maybe the grandson of the man Sr. killed?

And we still don't know why Annalise picked Connor, either. Hey! Not all mysteries are murders.

I love Tegan.

Edited November 2, 2018 by possibilities

[Milaxx]

33 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ok, so we get some backstory on Oliver (finally!) and we get to meet his mom. And y'know? She's pretty cool, and I liked Oliver. I totally forgot about his HIV-Positive stuff, so I was wondering what got him so worried, but it worked...kind of. Joanna Hampton is pretty darn great. I hope she's not the dead body in the flashforward. I loved her scenes with Oliver as well as Connor. 

Ok....I'm gonna admit it. I could see Annalise getting played by a mile away. Why the hell didn't Annalise see herself getting played? I feel like it's totally obvious that the Governor orchestrated Nate Lahey Sr's death. I don't know whether it was because I just saw Timothy Hutton in Haunting of Hill House or because Emmett was finally written as a decent character, but I was cheering HIM on over Annalise. Sure, he had his own motives behind wanting Annalise to stay, but he was right. I'm glad Tegan stood up for Annalise. Having that scene with Emmett, and then seeing Emmett go to Annalise, really helped me like Caplan and Gold a bit more. It was the first time I was interested in the firm. 

I just can't with Annalise's idiocy. She only took the deal because of Nate's dad getting pardoned, but she should have seen that there was a catch. I'm not exactly sure why Annalise kept making really big mistakes this episode. I don't know whether it's because she was distracted by the Bonnie stuff or she was focused on fixing the system or what.

So, Laurel is brought in to the Gabriel stuff, but we still don't know what it could be. 

Miller's in the flashforward! It SEEMS like it's after the whole dead body fiasco, so he COULD be safe? And he's ready to propose! Which ups his chances at dying at some point this season, even if it's not in the finale. Or he's going to hurt Bonnie somehow. 

As for the Bonnie's son stuff.....so I take it that this is confirmation that Gabriel is NOT Bonnie's son? Not that I think Julie is being truthful about Bonnie's kid being dead, but more that Frank's involvement with Gabriel and now with Bonnie makes it seem like Gabriel isn't her son, after all. But I'm honestly still not quite sure. 

Back to Nate Sr...it sucks for him, it does. I can't say I liked that storyline but it does suck that he never got to be free. I guess we can now say that Nate likely goes rogue to try to avenge his father by searching for his killer in the finale. 

Oli and his mom was really sweet. Kudos to Mia and Conrad for knocking that scene out the park. Joanna Hampton is the best kind of Tiger mom. Also? I'm *really* craving lumpias now.

 

I theorized Nate Senor died, but not like this. I'm not surprised AK got bamboozled by the Governor. She's too close to this case. It's why she almost lost the case last week.

 

I need to rewatch before I write anymore.

Excellent episode.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, Milaxx said:

I theorized Nate Senor died, but not like this. I'm not surprised AK got bamboozled by the Governor. She's too close to this case. It's why she almost lost the case last week.

Someone on Reddit pointed this out, and it did remind me of what Emmett said earlier in the episode about doing anything for Annalise to stay, or something along those lines, and now I worry that it was Emmett's doing. I worry about it because I actually want Annalise to have Emmett, and Tegan, as allies and if he got Nate Sr killed to pit Annalise and the Governor against each other, then I'm gonna be real annoyed. Plus, I WANT it to be the obvious. 

[Milaxx]

I haven't gone to reddit this season. I'll probably check it out over the winter hiatus

[possibilities]

Emmett did turn VERY cold when she explained her reasons for leaving. I guess he COULD be the vindictive sort. And we really don't know what his misconduct actually is. I didn't find his vague explanation to Annalise at all adequate to exonerate him.

[Anela]

Damn it. I was sure that was going to happen, but I started to cry. They get ONE moment of happiness on this show, and it's ruined by another murder. That beautiful letter, covered in his blood, as he did end up dying like the brother of the man he was writing to. 

I love that Oliver and Connor's mothers are there for them, but I thought Oliver's mum crossed the line a bit with her telling Connor to call his rich dad, and then ensuring that he would, by telling him about Oliver looking forward to his wedding, since he was a little boy. 

[Milaxx]

What if this is governor plot to discredit AK by spinning s story that the prisoner she help get free deserved to be in prison by sayyhe went nuts & tried to kill the guards transferring him. 

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, Anela said:

Damn it. I was sure that was going to happen, but I started to cry. They get ONE moment of happiness on this show, and it's ruined by another murder. That beautiful letter, covered in his blood, as he did end up dying like the brother of the man he was writing to. 

I love that Oliver and Connor's mothers are there for them, but I thought Oliver's mum crossed the line a bit with her telling Connor to call his rich dad, and then ensuring that he would, by telling him about Oliver looking forward to his wedding, since he was a little boy. 

She didn’t tell Connor to call his dad. She shared that Oluver has always wanted a fantasy wedding. Connor was all about the budget wedding, but both moms have offered to help and Oli mentioned before that he would like a church wedding. Oli hasn’t asked Connor to because he knows he doesn’t want that. Connor called his dad only after realizing how much those things meant to Oli. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Milaxx
I really need to rewatch before posting

[Anela]

13 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

She didn’t tell Connor to call his dad. She shared that Oluver has always wanted a fantasy wedding. Connor was all about the budget wedding, but both moms have offered to help and Oli mentioned before that he would like a church wedding. Oli hasn’t asked Connor to because he knows he doesn’t want that. Connor called his dad only after realizing how much those things meant to Oli. 

It still bothers me that she did that. He didn't want to call his father, and she knew that he would, for Oliver. Someone mentioned his rich dad - I'm sure I heard it.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Anela

[colorbars]

It was weird not to end on a flashforward, but I can see why they didn't. They showed what they'd usually show at the end, in the beginning instead. But I'm guessing the Miller we saw was before everything went down; the fact that everyone was dancing around when last we saw they were looking for/waiting for Oliver, and that Bonnie was back instead at all, when she had just been outside with Connor last. I think it's a mistake and a case of messing with the timeline ala Wes and Connor during S3. So I'm not counting him out as a possibility for the victim.

I definitely don't think that Julie was telling the truth at the end. I find it hard to believe they would've done all of this just for Bonnie's baby to be dead after all. It could lead to her doing something drastic on wedding night, but they've put a lot of time into this storyline and involved a lot of characters just for it to amount to nothing like that, when they could've done something else for murder night. Julie burying him alive doesn't explain why she showed up there a year later.

Frank's stuff this week definitely points to Gabriel not being Bonnie's son, but I don't think it completely discredits it. This show loves to misdirect and trick, and the fact that Frank had kept tabs on Julie enough to know she had a kid (when Annalise didn't even know) was interesting to me. But, if Gabriel was her son, Julie was my only guess for who he could be talking to about it and while again, it's not impossible that there was some kind of plan to get Bonnie answers that would make her leave and drop the whole thing, it did seem like it wasn't her.

The Oliver/mom stuff was really nice, I liked that they brought his HIV+ storyline back. I must admit to not paying attention to any of the Connor father, money, wedding venue stuff at all. But the emotional moments with Oliver's mom were touching and well done.

Not sure what to do with the Nate Sr stuff. I was never invested in the story, but he was always really likeable and pulled at the heart strings regardless, so that ending was a bit of a gut punch. The only people that knew about his pardon were Annalise, the Governor and Emmett, though the motive could've been something else, too.

That Gabriel and Laurel scene is another one I'm not sure what to make of. I don't think they confirmed either way, if Frank told Laurel who he is, did he? Either way, he's doing a good job of making himself look shady enough. And they definitely want us to think he had a connection to Wes...

[Dancingjaneway]

My theory is that they want us to believe it's the governor when really it was Emmett's doing. That man has a mean streak & is highly unstable so I wouldn't trust him to not do something to hurt Annalise.  Laurel is a moron & is lucky that the writers love her because she should be dead by now. Instead of continuing to be cool & friendly around Gabe she totally looses her cool & basically accuses him of harassing her. Way to go Laurel. Like that's not going to send up red flags in his head. Oliver's mom is so sweet & I loved her moments with both boys. Connors mom on the other hand is a loose cannon. Asher inviting them to the bachelor party was so stupid. So assuming Bonnie's sister was telling the truth Bonnie's baby is dead. But who was the boy that Frank found & in that picture? I don't trust her sister farther than I could throw her. I think unfortunately whatever Annalise had chosen she would have paid for it in some way. The governor was always going to be an enemy whether Annalise said yes or no to the proposal. As for who is in the snow I still have no clue. I have a two theories on who Gabe could be. One was that he is part of the Mahoney family. Another is that he is Eggs911 & he is trying to figure out what happened to Rebecca. The only thing I do know is that I CANNOT wait for next week. This show always brings it. 

[mrsbagnet]

54 minutes ago, Anela said:

It still bothers me that she did that. He didn't want to call his father, and she knew that he would, for Oliver. Someone mentioned his rich dad - I'm sure I heard it.

When they're in the kitchen, she says, "Why not ask your father for money? Oliver told me he's rich."

[possibilities]

They had to have an expensive wedding, so people could bring plus 1s, and that means Miller is probably there somewhere.

Also, we still haven't had any follow up on what happened to Laurel's mother.

[NUguy514]

I didn't find it at all believable that Annalise would take that job since it was so obvious the governor was playing her.  Laura Innes, though, came to play!  Love her!

The scene in which Oliver told his mom he's HIV+ was beautifully done.  It was veeeerrrrry dusty in here by the end of that scene.

I saw Nate Sr.'s death coming, but I'm just not sure who's to blame.  I count three possible suspects.

I also think I know who Gabriel might be, although I'm still not sure I care about him (with a shirt on, anyway).

[Bama]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

Damn it. I was sure that was going to happen, but I started to cry. They get ONE moment of happiness on this show, and it's ruined by another murder. That beautiful letter, covered in his blood, as he did end up dying like the brother of the man he was writing to. 

I love that Oliver and Connor's mothers are there for them, but I thought Oliver's mum crossed the line a bit with her telling Connor to call his rich dad, and then ensuring that he would, by telling him about Oliver looking forward to his wedding, since he was a little boy. 

But didn't she also tell them she had $10,000 saved up and wanted to use it for their wedding?

I didn't think her talk was about guilting Connor into calling his dad especially since she had just offered her money.  I thought the line about his rich dad was just her trying another angle if they weren't going to accept her money.

I took Connor calling his dad as a sign that he's willing to deal with his dad and his money if it means giving Oliver what he wants.

And I think the flashforward with Miller was definitely after the murder/whatever Bonnie did to whoever in the snow.  When she looked at her phone the showed a bunch of quick flashes of her in the snow and the blood.

There were some interesting clips in the preview for next week but I'll take that to the spec thread as I know some people don't watch the previews and I don't want to spoil anything.

[Milaxx]

14 hours ago, Anela said:

It still bothers me that she did that. He didn't want to call his father, and she knew that he would, for Oliver. Someone mentioned his rich dad - I'm sure I heard it.

 

You're right Oliver's mom was encouraging him to call his dad. However she also pointed out that Connor wasn't listening to what Oliver wanted. Back at Christopher's christening Oliver mentioned he thought the church would make a nice place for a wedding and Connor dismissed it. Later on Oliver talks about how he always does what people want. This was also an issue when they broke up. So part of what Joanna did was show Connor that he was ignoring what Oliver wanted because he was mad at his father.  

13 hours ago, Dancingjaneway said:

My theory is that they want us to believe it's the governor when really it was Emmett's doing. That man has a mean streak & is highly unstable so I wouldn't trust him to not do something to hurt Annalise.  .... The governor was always going to be an enemy whether Annalise said yes or no to the proposal. As for who is in the snow I still have no clue. I have a two theories on who Gabe could be. One was that he is part of the Mahoney family. Another is that he is Eggs911 & he is trying to figure out what happened to Rebecca. The only thing I do know is that I CANNOT wait for next week. This show always brings it. 

I agree, neither Emmett or the governor should be trusted.

Gab isn't Eggs 911. That was Rebecca;s foster brother Levi, played by Matt Cohen.  We already saw him. 

13 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

When they're in the kitchen, she says, "Why not ask your father for money? Oliver told me he's rich."

You're right. That's why I should never post after only watching once. I live tweet and miss stuff. Nevertheless I think her reasons for asking were valid. 

11 hours ago, Bama said:

But didn't she also tell them she had $10,000 saved up and wanted to use it for their wedding?

I didn't think her talk was about guilting Connor into calling his dad especially since she had just offered her money.  I thought the line about his rich dad was just her trying another angle if they weren't going to accept her money.

I took Connor calling his dad as a sign that he's willing to deal with his dad and his money if it means giving Oliver what he wants.

And I think the flashforward with Miller was definitely after the murder/whatever Bonnie did to whoever in the snow.  When she looked at her phone the showed a bunch of quick flashes of her in the snow and the blood.

There were some interesting clips in the preview for next week but I'll take that to the spec thread as I know some people don't watch the previews and I don't want to spoil anything.

Joanna said she had some money saved up. Pam told Connor Joanna was asking for her for $10k that was her portion for the place they had found, which was a little steep for them or at least for Pam to kick in and help with. So in the end it was knowing that his mom couldn't help that finally made Connor call his dad.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Milaxx

[darkestboy]

Easily the strongest episode of the season so far. All the main storylines worked well this week.

Loved seeing both Connor and Oliver's mothers and there was some great scenes with Pam and Joanne with their sons and other characters this week.

Good to see that Ronald is alive in the flash forwards, even if I can't see him and Bonnie tying the knot though. Also some great scenes with Bonnie and Julie in this episode, though I guess we can rule Gabriel out as the son. 

Laurel definitely attracted more attention with the way she handled the Gabriel situation as well. Is Michaela actually in love with Tegan because even I'm finding her fixation to be too much at this rate.

Emmett showed his true colours with Annalise as did Birkhead. Nate Sr dying, I think everyone saw coming though, 8/10

[blackwing]

Not surprised at all that Nate Sr was killed.  Everything about the Nate Sr story bored me to tears so while I find it sad for the character, I won't be sad to see the end of this storyline.

I like that they actually gave Oliver's mom an ethnicity.  Since his last name is Hampton I assumed his mom is Asian, but I really liked that the show made a point to give her an ethnicity (she was talking about making lumpia so she must be Filipino).  Too often on TV shows it seems like Asian characters are just some kind of generic "but they're all the same, aren't they" Asian.

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

They had to have an expensive wedding, so people could bring plus 1s, and that means Miller is probably there somewhere.

I agree with the theory that they showed us this scene right after Bonnie was seen hanging up the call from Michaela on Nate's phone, to make us think that right after Michaela called Nate, Miller called her.  I would not at all be surprised if this scene happened earlier in the evening.  So he could still be the dead body.

What I find odd is that she clearly was already at the wedding, alone.  So she didn't bring him as her date.  He showed up there uninvited and asked her to come out and see him.  So somewhere in the month in between the events shown last night and the wedding, she and Miller have a falling out.  Then he's trying to get back together with her by proposing.

Did Bonnie show Julie the picture of that grown up blond man that may or may not be her son?  Or was that Nate that showed Bonnie the picture?  If Bonnie showed Julie the picture, and Bonnie's son is actually Gabriel, wouldn't Julie have said "that can't be your son, your son is black"?

Did I hear it correctly that there's only two episodes left in this fall season?  I think this is the current list of all the mysteries... which of these do we think are actually going to be resolved in two episodes?

1.  Who died at the wedding?

2.  Who is Gabriel?

3.  Who has Frank been talking to on the phone?

4.  Where is Bonnie's son?

5.  Where is Sandrine Castillo?

6.  Who killed Nate Senior?

Any others?

Edited November 2, 2018 by blackwing

[NUguy514]

I don't think Connor is ignoring Oliver's wants by not wanting to get married in a church; Connor likely has very valid reasons for explicitly not wanting to get married in a church.  Also, being concerned about not being able to afford to throw a big wedding isn't ignoring Oliver's wants either.  Calling his father, the man who caused their falling out by telling him Oliver was not the one for him, was a big compromise on Connor's part to give Oliver the big wedding he wants.  I don't think he is obligated to get married in a church against his own wishes in addition.  Since this wedding is for both of them, Oliver should be willing to compromise on not getting married in a church and do it with out being passive-aggressive or mopey about it.

[Milaxx]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

Not surprised at all that Nate Sr was killed.  Everything about the Nate Sr story bored me to tears so while I find it sad for the character, I won't be sad to see the end of this storyline.

I like that they actually gave Oliver's mom an ethnicity.  Since his last name is Hampton I assumed his mom is Asian, but I really liked that the show made a point to give her an ethnicity (she was talking about making lumpia so she must be Filipino).  Too often on TV shows it seems like Asian characters are just some kind of generic "but they're all the same, aren't they" Asian.

I agree with the theory that they showed us this scene right after Bonnie was seen hanging up the call from Michaela on Nate's phone, to make us think that right after Michaela called Nate, Miller called her.  I would not at all be surprised if this scene happened earlier in the evening.  So he could still be the dead body.

What I find odd is that she clearly was already at the wedding, alone.  So she didn't bring him as her date.  He showed up there uninvited and asked her to come out and see him.  So somewhere in the month in between the events shown last night and the wedding, she and Miller have a falling out.  Then he's trying to get back together with her by proposing.

Did Bonnie show Julie the picture of that grown up blond man that may or may not be her son?  Or was that Nate that showed Bonnie the picture?  If Bonnie showed Julie the picture, and Bonnie's son is actually Gabriel, wouldn't Julie have said "that can't be your son, your son is black"?

Did I hear it correctly that there's only two episodes left in this fall season?  I think this is the current list of all the mysteries... which of these do we think are actually going to be resolved in two episodes?

1.  Who died at the wedding?

2.  Who is Gabriel?

3.  Who has Frank been talking to on the phone?

4.  Where is Bonnie's son?

5.  Where is Sandrine Castillo?

6.  Who killed Nate Senior?

Any others?

Conrad is Filipino as is the actress they hired. I think Frank showed her the picture but I'd need to go back and check. I think the show only does 15/16 episodes a season. They do 8, and then are off for winter break, return and show the second half. We're only facing the final eps for the first half of the season.

51 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

I don't think Connor is ignoring Oliver's wants by not wanting to get married in a church; Connor likely has very valid reasons for explicitly not wanting to get married in a church.  Also, being concerned about not being able to afford to throw a big wedding isn't ignoring Oliver's wants either.  Calling his father, the man who caused their falling out by telling him Oliver was not the one for him, was a big compromise on Connor's part to give Oliver the big wedding he wants.  I don't think he is obligated to get married in a church against his own wishes in addition.  Since this wedding is for both of them, Oliver should be willing to compromise on not getting married in a church and do it with out being passive-aggressive or mopey about it.

The way you view the Coliver relationship always depends on whether you like them as a couple and/or like the Oliver character. I didn't see Oliver being passive aggressive at all. In fact most of the pressure came from the parents. Oliver mentioned having a wedding at the church once at Christopher's baptism and let it go. This is the show's longest running relationship. They have done a fairly decent job of showing the back and forth/give and take it takes to make it work. Oliver hasn't been mopey. Connor didn't know Oliver has always dreamed of a big, church wedding until Joanna showed him.  Even then she was ready to put her money where her mouth is and help pay for a better reception venue that both moms agreed upon. It was Pam who told Connor she couldn't pay, which prompted him to call his dad. It was Oliver who tried to explain to both moms  how the lower price wedding venue would work. He wasn't mopey. He was more than willing to go along with it.

[Milaxx]

12 hours ago, Bama said:

But didn't she also tell them she had $10,000 saved up and wanted to use it for their wedding?

I didn't think her talk was about guilting Connor into calling his dad especially since she had just offered her money.  I thought the line about his rich dad was just her trying another angle if they weren't going to accept her money.

I took Connor calling his dad as a sign that he's willing to deal with his dad and his money if it means giving Oliver what he wants.

.....

Yes it was actually Connor's mom saying she didn't have $10k to chip in to pay for the wedding that made him call.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

 I think the show only does 15/16 episodes a season. They do 8, and then are off for winter break, return and show the second half. We're only facing the final eps for the first half of the season.

Ah yes, I know.  I'm just wondering how many answers we will get to the open mysteries before the winter hiatus.  Definitely they've been promising we will learn who died at the wedding but I'm curious if they are going to resolve any of these other dangling plots.

Question... if they have $20K to spend (10 from Mrs. Hampton, 10 from Mr. Walsh), why are they having the reception in their rented house?  That reception cost $20K?!?!?  Usually isn't most of the cost in the venue rental and food?  Doesn't look like the house can accommodate a sit down meal for all those guests so I'm wondering where all the money went.  I guess maybe this is the afterparty, or they decided not to spend the money.

It seems too obvious that Gabriel ends up being Bonnie's son.  I'm wondering, what if Gabriel turns out to be Sam's son?  Sam was older than Annalise, right?  I seem to recall he was her professor.  Maybe Gabriel is Sam's son from a previous relationship?  Maybe he and Wes are half-brothers?  

We saw Annalise in an earlier promo falling to her knees and screaming in anguish.  The promo monkeys made it look like she was reacting to the revelation of "who died at the wedding" but it seems more and more likely that she is reacting to news of Nate Senior's death.  So she possibly has no strong emotional connection (at least not to the point where she'd be anguished) to the person who died.

I believe at this point the list of likely possible victims is Oliver, Nate, Miller, Tegan, Timothy Hutton, or Julie.  It'd be really cheap of the show if the victim was someone the likes of Mrs. Hampton, Mrs. Castillo, Connor's dad, or Nate's girlfriend.

My gut tells me that it is Miller, and that the show think it is being clever by revealing him to be apparently alive but then it turns out that scene was out of sequence and he is actually dead.  Um show, you already did that last year with Wes.  You fooled me once but you'd have to be bold to try and do the exact same timing trick.

It'd be too bad for Bonnie if it turns out to be Miller.  I don't dislike him.  But I just want it to be anyone but Tegan.  I'm getting a little worried for the amazing Teegs.  Love everything about her.  I love the flair with which she speaks, especially when she is speaking Spanish (I believe the actress is actually Dominican, like Rosario Dawson?).  Love her pronunciation of "Miss Castillo". Tegan better not die!!!

Edited November 2, 2018 by blackwing

[tennisgurl]

Oh no! Nate Sr was just one day until retirement! So did the governor have him killed? Holy crap, thats some super intense levels of saltiness about a verdict. If she was the one who ordered it, I have no clue. Its hard to tell on a show when pretty much anyone and everyone occasionally kills people. I was never super invested in Nate Sr, but that still really hit me in the gut. Damn. Soooo close!

I liked seeing Connor and Oliver's moms show up, and I thought the whole sequence where Oliver admitted to having HIV to his mom was really well done. I also liked finding out more about Oliver's love of wedding, but its pretty easy to see that as being a bit passive aggressive. You could probably make a case (heh) that Connor should just suck it up and make peace with his dad for the sake of the wedding, but it also could be seen as pretty manipulative, even if its of the best of intentions, to get Oliver his dream wedding. I dont blame Connor for not knowing that Oliver wanted a big fancy church wedding though, because it seems like he never brought it up before. Of course, he was probably going to ask his dad for the money anyway after his mom told him they didnt have the money, so who knows? 

Did Bonnie's sister really kill the baby in an attempted mercy killing to spare him what she and Bonnie suffered? And then, the family at the house found him and adopted him? I really have no clue, its hard to tell with anyone. 

Speaking of mistrust, Annalise should not have trusted the governor, and seeing her get played just seemed super weird. And she basically did it all to get Nate Srs release date bumped, which seems like not the best reason to throw away everything right now. Where does that leave everyone else? Emmett was a jerk about it, but he wasn't wrong that Annalise leaving is pretty much screwing their firm and him over, even knowing that they'll certainly be fine. 

Asher and Connors moms interactions are really creepy knowing what we saw in the flashforward, with all the "you can be my new son" stuff. Maybe, dont fool around in the parking lot with your best friends mom/sons best friend on the night of his wedding?!

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Ah yes, I know.  I'm just wondering how many answers we will get to the open mysteries before the winter hiatus.  Definitely they've been promising we will learn who died at the wedding but I'm curious if they are going to resolve any of these other dangling plots.

Question... if they have $20K to spend (10 from Mrs. Hampton, 10 from Mr. Walsh), why are they having the reception in their rented house?  That reception cost $20K?!?!?  Usually isn't most of the cost in the venue rental and food?  Doesn't look like the house can accommodate a sit down meal for all those guests so I'm wondering where all the money went.  I guess maybe this is the afterparty, or they decided not to spend the money.

It seems too obvious that Gabriel ends up being Bonnie's son.  I'm wondering, what if Gabriel turns out to be Sam's son?  Sam was older than Annalise, right?  I seem to recall he was her professor.  Maybe Gabriel is Sam's son from a previous relationship?  Maybe he and Wes are half-brothers?  

We saw Annalise in an earlier promo falling to her knees and screaming in anguish.  The promo monkeys made it look like she was reacting to the revelation of "who died at the wedding" but it seems more and more likely that she is reacting to news of Nate Senior's death.  So she possibly has no strong emotional connection (at least not to the point where she'd be anguished) to the person who died.

I believe at this point the list of likely possible victims is Oliver, Nate, Miller, Tegan, Timothy Hutton, or Julie.  It'd be really cheap of the show if the victim was someone the likes of Mrs. Hampton, Mrs. Castillo, Connor's dad, or Nate's girlfriend.

My gut tells me that it is Miller, and that the show think it is being clever by revealing him to be apparently alive but then it turns out that scene was out of sequence and he is actually dead.  Um show, you already did that last year with Wes.  You fooled me once but you'd have to be bold to try and do the exact same timing trick.

It'd be too bad for Bonnie if it turns out to be Miller.  I don't dislike him.  But I just want it to be anyone but Tegan.  I'm getting a little worried for the amazing Teegs.  Love everything about her.  I love the flair with which she speaks, especially when she is speaking Spanish (I believe the actress is actually Dominican, like Rosario Dawson?).  Love her pronunciation of "Miss Castillo". Tegan better not die!!!

With this show chances are you get more questions than answers. I think we'll find out who's in the snow, and why AK is crying in her apartment, but that's it.

I don't think they have the wedding in their house. That's  fancy venue with an outdoor tent and parking lot. My hope is they compromised and had the big wedding but no church.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gabriel is Bonnie's son. This show likes to state the obvious and then spin so many other threads that we doubt it because it's the obvious choice. Sam wasn't AK's professor. He was a shrink she went to that she ended up having an affair with and later married. I do think the Mahoney's and/or Sandrine are mixed up in this somehow. I wouldn't be surprised if Gabriel was somehow related to Wes.

My guess as to who's in the snow are Miller, Emmett (Tim Hutton), Julie or Sandrine. Nate has file on all the K6, not just Bonnie so unless he passes them onto someone else, I think that keeps him safe. I don't see it being Tegan. If it is Oliver, I think (hope) it's a fake out like it was with Simon.We already saw that Miller is alive. I agree it could be Miller and they are showing the flashback out of sequence like they did with Wes's death. This really makes sense because maybe Bonnie goes out to the car and he's got Christopher. I'll play this out more in the speculation thread.

Amirah Vaughn is half Puerto Rican/half African American.

34 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh no! Nate Sr was just one day until retirement! So did the governor have him killed? Holy crap, thats some super intense levels of saltiness about a verdict. If she was the one who ordered it, I have no clue. Its hard to tell on a show when pretty much anyone and everyone occasionally kills people. I was never super invested in Nate Sr, but that still really hit me in the gut. Damn. Soooo close!

......

Did Bonnie's sister really kill the baby in an attempted mercy killing to spare him what she and Bonnie suffered? And then, the family at the house found him and adopted him? I really have no clue, its hard to tell with anyone. 

.......

The show appears to be making a case for either Miller or the governor to have set him up to be killed.

I don't believe Bonnie's sister, but whatever the truth is must be really bad for her to go to such lengths to not tell Bonnie the truth

[DesertCyclist]

I miss Frank's buzz cut and designer stubble.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Gabriel is Bonnie's son. This show likes to state the obvious and then spin so many other threads that we doubt it because it's the obvious choice. Sam wasn't AK's professor. He was a shrink she went to that she ended up having an affair with and later married. I do think the Mahoney's and/or Sandrine are mixed up in this somehow. I wouldn't be surprised if Gabriel was somehow related to Wes.

 

I hope so, but watch, after over six episodes of build-up, it's something dumb like Gabriel is the Governor's son.

[Neurochick]

I think it was Emmett who had Nate Sr killed.  A politician wants to stay in power and keep getting elected.  Emmett is one nasty person and I can see him being vindictive.

Maybe Bonnie isn’t the killer at all, maybe Nate killed Emmett, and Bonnie’s covering for him, which is why she has his phone.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Neurochick

[Milaxx]

11 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think it was Emmett who had Nate Sr killed.  A politician wants to stay in power and keep getting elected.  Emmett is one nasty person and I can see him being vindictive.

Maybe Bonnie isn’t the killer at all, maybe Nate killed Emmett, and Bonnie’s covering for him, which is why she has his phone.

Emmett isn’t a politician, he’s the lawyer at C & G.

 It appears as if she smoothers whoever is lying in the snow.  Whether the person is alive after that depends on the whims of the writers. They could do some medical blah blah about hypothermia from laying in the snow put them in a coma & saved their life.

[Neurochick]

29 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Emmett isn’t a politician, he’s the lawyer at C & G.

 It appears as if she smoothers whoever is lying in the snow.  Whether the person is alive after that depends on the whims of the writers. They could do some medical blah blah about hypothermia from laying in the snow put them in a coma & saved their life.

I never said Emmitt was a politician.  A politician only wants to stay in power and keep getting elected ( the governor).  She wouldn’t have had Nate Sr killed.  Emmett however is a nasty piece of work and I can see him doing something like that because he isn’t a politician.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I didn't find it at all believable that Annalise would take that job since it was so obvious the governor was playing her.

Yep, I thought it was OOC for her to have fallen into such a clear trap. Maybe instead of trying to be a surprise hero she should've asked Nate Sr. if he wanted to accept a pardon under those questionable circumstances. He might've told her not to do it and he'd be satisfied living out his years in the mental facility.

So does Bonnie now think her son is dead? Then who was the guy Frank showed her a picture of? Shouldn't they at least try to finagle a DNA test? Bonnie's sister could be lying about having buried the baby in the woods. Honesty hasn't been her forte so far. Seems she only tells the truth when she's confronted with irrefutable evidence.

[wanderingstar]

I didn't see Nate Sr's end coming, and I'm in my feelings about it. Just when the man was starting to make peace with what he'd done and was so close to going free! Well, I should have remembered how this show does characters who get too happy.

Loved Oliver's mom and loved the scene where he told her his HIV status.

I'm surprised at how few flashforwards we've gotten this season.

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yep, I thought it was OOC for her to have fallen into such a clear trap. Maybe instead of trying to be a surprise hero she should've asked Nate Sr. if he wanted to accept a pardon under those questionable circumstances. He might've told her not to do it and he'd be satisfied living out his years in the mental facility.

So does Bonnie now think her son is dead? Then who was the guy Frank showed her a picture of? Shouldn't they at least try to finagle a DNA test? Bonnie's sister could be lying about having buried the baby in the woods. Honesty hasn't been her forte so far. Seems she only tells the truth when she's confronted with irrefutable evidence.

I don’t think she believes her sister. I think she’s at a loss as to what to do. She doesn’t know if the child is alive or dead. So on top of reliving all that trauma, she has to decide if she wants to pursue DNA testing with this young man & how to explain that to him.

11 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I never said Emmitt was a politician.  A politician only wants to stay in power and keep getting elected ( the governor).  She wouldn’t have had Nate Sr killed.  Emmett however is a nasty piece of work and I can see him doing something like that because he isn’t a politician.

I think that misdirection. He has a right to be mad at Annalise for quitting. He actually did her a favor by catching that clause in the contract. He  hired her when the governor had black balled all the other firms into not hiring her and basically let her write her own rules. So after all of that she drops him and signs on with the governor. I'd be pissed too. He sounds like a guy who got a bad deal from his company.

On this show everyone is capable of murder. My money is still on the governor or Miller setting up Nate Sr

Edited November 3, 2018 by Milaxx

[Empress1]

7 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I didn't see Nate Sr's end coming, and I'm in my feelings about it. Just when the man was starting to make peace with what he'd done and was so close to going free! Well, I should have remembered how this show does characters who get too happy.

Loved Oliver's mom and loved the scene where he told her his HIV status.

I'm surprised at how few flashforwards we've gotten this season.

I was like "Aw, DAMMIT" when Colonel Taylor (that's who Glynn Turman is to me) died. My money is on the governor being behind it.

[Kimmel77]

On ‎02‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:59 AM, possibilities said:

Emmett did turn VERY cold when she explained her reasons for leaving. I guess he COULD be the vindictive sort. And we really don't know what his misconduct actually is. I didn't find his vague explanation to Annalise at all adequate to exonerate him.

I was getting weird vibes that he could be Tegan's dad.

[Milaxx]

On 11/1/2018 at 11:59 PM, possibilities said:

Emmett did turn VERY cold when she explained her reasons for leaving. I guess he COULD be the vindictive sort. And we really don't know what his misconduct actually is. I didn't find his vague explanation to Annalise at all adequate to exonerate him.

I do think he was intentionally vague with his explanation of his misconduct. I guess time will tell if it's because of a gag order or not. I just see a guy who got jerked with a love affair gone wrong that nearly cost him his job. As punishment (it appears), he's under a gag order and not allowed to be alone with any female clients. Further more he's sent to the company's problematic branch. A branch that has been gutted with bad publicity and lost most of it's clients. He charged with turning this firm around. He takes a chance and brings on AK despite rumblings from the governor who has blackballed her with every other firm. He then gives her a hefty salary and all her demands. He dies her a solid and review the governor's contract, points out a loop hole that could have been a major problem for AK's class action cases.  After all of this, AK up and leaves. I think he's got a reason to be angry. 

I've also worked at companies where standard protocol was to have security escort you out when fired.  I even worked one place that did it when you resigned. You had to make an appointment to come in and clean out your belongings. At the place where they did it even when you resigned, I asked HR why and and he said, some people get vindictive when they leave. They may try to poach clients or sabotage computers. They'd rather pay you as if you gave appropriate notice and not take that chance

Anyway, back to Emmett. Image already in the dog house with your firm. Going to bat with the board to bring in AK and all her demands, only for her to leave a month later. Now he has to go back to that board and tell them this. If I was Emmett, I'd be angry too.

I'm not saying he is or isn't a bad guy, however what we have seen of his anger is justified.

[bantering]

I was upset after this episode. Really, really upset.

[helenamonster]

This was definitely the strongest episode of the season so far, and looking forward to where we end up in the mid-season finale.

Was not overly invested in Nate Sr.'s case but really devastated that he was inches from freedom and murdered. If the governor is behind it, that was quite a gambit. She had to anticipate that Annalise would request Nate Sr.'s pardon in exchange for receiving government funding for her class action. If Annalise hadn't requested it, would she have screwed her over some other way?

Agree that Annalise was way too quick to trust the governor--the whole deal just seemed to good to be true, and the governor didn't push back on any of the demands Annalise made. So now she's stuck with no sponsorship for her class action and, whether it was the governor or Emmett--Nate Sr. dead as a result of her choices. I mean, somehow she does end up happy and dancing at Connor and Oliver's wedding, so...?

I...totally forgot Oliver was HIV+ and was really confused about what he was nervous to tell his mom about until he said it out loud. I also didn't think Conrad Ricamora had the chops to pull off that scene. The actress playing his mother was great, but he didn't feel as devastated as the dialogue was telling me he was.

Definitely too early for Miller to even be thinking about proposing to Bonnie.

The Bonnie's son storyline is getting too confusing and I feel I've dropped some of the threads. But Liza Weil is still killing it.

If Michaela's not a lil bit gay for Tegan, what is this storyline even about anymore? Nice of Laurel do to her a solid by giving her credit for the Gut Suckers defense, but nobody should let Tegan be alone in a room with Michaela in this condition.

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, helenamonster said:

If Michaela's not a lil bit gay for Tegan, what is this storyline even about anymore? Nice of Laurel do to her a solid by giving her credit for the Gut Suckers defense, but nobody should let Tegan be alone in a room with Michaela in this condition.

LOL - Last season I thought they were going to maybe pair Annalise with Tegan. Now it does appear that it may be Micheala. I just hope it doesn't turn out that it's more idol worship on Mickey's part.

[jhlipton]

On 11/2/2018 at 7:03 AM, darkestboy said:

Is Michaela actually in love with Tegan because even I'm finding her fixation to be too much at this rate.

On 11/4/2018 at 1:02 PM, helenamonster said:

If Michaela's not a lil bit gay for Tegan, what is this storyline even about anymore? ...nobody should let Tegan be alone in a room with Michaela in this condition.

On 11/4/2018 at 4:33 PM, Milaxx said:

LOL - Last season I thought they were going to maybe pair Annalise with Tegan. Now it does appear that it may be Micheala. I just hope it doesn't turn out that it's more idol worship on Mickey's part.

I dunno -- I think Michaela is in love with the "idea" of Tegan -- I don't see a sexual attraction at all.   That's Michaela's major fault: she sees people as stereotypes and not as "real" people.

On 11/2/2018 at 12:09 PM, Milaxx said:

I think the show only does 15/16 episodes a season. They do 8, and then are off for winter break, return and show the second half. We're only facing the final eps for the first half of the season.

It's like last season -- the first half is "Who died?" and the second half is "Who killed them?"

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

On 11/2/2018 at 10:03 AM, darkestboy said:

Is Michaela actually in love with Tegan because even I'm finding her fixation to be too much at this rate.

On 11/4/2018 at 4:02 PM, helenamonster said:

If Michaela's not a lil bit gay for Tegan, what is this storyline even about anymore? ...nobody should let Tegan be alone in a room with Michaela in this condition.

On 11/4/2018 at 7:33 PM, Milaxx said:

LOL - Last season I thought they were going to maybe pair Annalise with Tegan. Now it does appear that it may be Micheala. I just hope it doesn't turn out that it's more idol worship on Mickey's part.

I dunno -- I think Michaela is in love with the "idea" of Tegan -- I don't see a sexual attraction at all.   That's Michaela's major fault: she sees people as stereotypes and not as "real" people.

That's what I mean. I think she may end up confusing the two and Tegan once again will end up hurt.