S37: Angelina Keeley

[Bryce Lynch]

49 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Just because you don’t think that it is worthy doesn’t make it ridiculous. Student government positions are seen as a good way to build leadership skills and self confiddence. I have no idea if boys are more willing to run for those positions or anything along those lines but I have no problem with someone wanting to encourage girls to participate in student government. It is no different then encouranging girls to participate in robot clubs or coding clubs or lego clubs and people are investing a good amount of time and energy in those areas. Just because it is not STEM related doesn’t make it useless. 

What does it take to run for student government that requires the support of Angelina's dopey foundation?

You fill out an application, print some flyers, paint some posters, work on a speech and maybe bake some cupcakes.

There are countless worthy causes out there that do important work, that really helps people.  For Angelina to attempt to ciphen off charity and taxpayer dollars for her silly "cause' so she can make money and feel important, without actually doing anything is despicable, IMHO.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[ProfCrash]

53 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

What does it take to run for student government that requires the support of Angelina's dopey foundation?

You fill out an application, print some flyers, paint some posters, work on a speech and maybe bake some cupcakes.

There are countless worthy causes out there that do important work, that really helps people.  For Angelina to attempt to ciphen off charity and taxpayer dollars for her silly "cause' so she can make money and feel important, without actually doing anything is despicable, IMHO.

It takes a level of self confidence and public speaking skills. Student Goernment at my high school actually required a certain degree of motivation, organization and potentially money management (Treasurer). The members of student government met regularly, planned projects, and worked with staff in order to establish and accomplish certain goals. It is more then likely that there are people who find themselves interested in running for office or public service because of their high school experiences. 

And just because you think it is a scam doesn’t mean that it is. You are drawing conclusions about a person and what she wants to do based off a highly edited reality TV show. An edit that did not show her to be evil or mean or really a bad person. 

What research have you done on this particular issue or how it could be approached? Or are you reacting instinctively because of how you remember your student government and how Angelina was portrayed?

I suspect that she developed the idea after watching the larger number of women run for, and win, local, state and national offices since the election of President Trump. I suspect that she is responding to the same call that many women did that led to the first Woman’s March and that increase in female candidates. I bet that Angelina is thinking of how do you encourage women to participate starting at a younger age and targeting student government for that reason. 

I have not done any research on any of these areas and I have no clue how I would tackle something like this. Itdoes not sound like something I would donate to but I suspect that Angelina has done a good amount of research on the subject. Condeming her vision without understanding it is a bit ridiculous.

[RescueMom]

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Just because you don’t think that it is worthy doesn’t make it ridiculous. Student government positions are seen as a good way to build leadership skills and self confiddence. I have no idea if boys are more willing to run for those positions or anything along those lines but I have no problem with someone wanting to encourage girls to participate in student government. It is no different then encouranging girls to participate in robot clubs or coding clubs or lego clubs and people are investing a good amount of time and energy in those areas. Just because it is not STEM related doesn’t make it useless. 

Yep, and it is a way to get girls interested in governing at a young age, which both gives them confidence and teaches them new skills in the short term, and will also likely contribute to more women running for office in the long term. Lots of charities sprung up after the 2016 election to encourage women to run for office and help them learn how to do so effectively. I don’t see anything negative about charities that help girls develop these interests and learn these skills at a younger age. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by RescueMom
Needed to add: ProfCrash said this better above. I somehow missed reading a few posts so jumped in a day late and a dollar short. Mea Culpa.

[Jextella]

On 12/20/2018 at 6:28 PM, LanceM said:

I don't know, trying to determine if someone is a "good person" based on a HIGHLY edited tv show in which lying and manipulating people is a part of the game, while living on an island outdoors where you get very little sleep and food seems kind of silly.

2

It goes both ways.  Assuming a person isn't good for all these reasons is just as silly.

[Rt66vintage]

On 12/17/2018 at 5:08 PM, Nashville said:

With the exception Angelina would ask and then (without waiting for an answer or reply) immediately plow into her own self-aggrandizing interjection - this is SO what I was thinking, it’s fucking scary.  :>

Wow, at the FTC she did exactly as you predicted! Bravo.

I'm not an Angelina fan. I've known insufferable women like her, popular & educated, blessed by the Pretty Gods, but not an authentic bone in her body. And as Nashville said above, predictable. I did envy her hair and skin; thankfully she does have one major flaw, imo, that of being an out-of proportion big-bottomed girl.

What I found really uncomfortable was when the final votes were being read (live), her FAKE constant moaning-laugh in the background after each name was revealed. Was her mic turned to high volume? She came out with a paycheck regardless, but the embarrassment of receiving NO votes hopefully took some wind out of her sails.

[Eolivet]

On 12/20/2018 at 7:28 PM, LanceM said:

I don't know, trying to determine if someone is a "good person" based on a HIGHLY edited tv show

I can't remember who said it, but I always remember this when it comes to reality TV: they can't edit it if you didn't say it.

That being said, I'd never waste my energy telling Angelina she needs to be more self-aware of her behavior, because I suspect that's a useless exercise. I really would've liked her to come out of this saying how she understood how certain behavior could have been interpreted, and that wasn't her intent (for example, what a bad look it was to beg for anything when she's a Goliath, on a season ostensibly about who's had advantages and who hasn't.) But she didn't. So, I can't do anything about that.

I think the most honest thing I can say about Angelina, based on post-game interviews where everyone loves her, while still believing what I saw on the edit (because they can't edit it if you didn't say it) is: I didn't like the side to her that I saw. And since I don't know her personally, that's the only way I can judge her.

And I really don't want to see her again on a returning player season, though I suspect it's an equally useless exercise to not hope for that, as well.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I think the only problem that I have with her starting a nonprofit, as someone who has worked in the nonprofit sector for almost all of my professional life, is that we already have plenty of nonprofits doing similar things and I throw a side eye to people who don’t know much about starting one but decide they’re going to do so anyway because of their ego and personal gain (and who knows how they’ll handle or run it later or how involved they’ll be). I’d be more impressed if she just did fundraising on behalf of another existing nonprofit or did some donating of her own. More collaboration with other organizations, less “look what I founded!”, please. Also, her lack of self-awareness can’t be good for being the face of a nonprofit. And I wouldn’t want to work at a nonprofit run by her, she’d try to take credit for all the work her minions do and bring up how she selflessly sacrificed immunity for rice in one way or another 😆

[LanceM]

1 minute ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I think the only problem that I have with her starting a nonprofit, as someone who has worked in the nonprofit sector for almost all of my professional life, is that we already have plenty of nonprofits doing similar things and I throw a side eye to people who don’t know much about starting one but decide they’re going to do so anyway because of their ego and personal gain (and who knows how they’ll handle or run it later or how involved they’ll be). I’d be more impressed if she just did fundraising on behalf of another existing nonprofit or did some donating of her own. More collaboration with other organizations, less “look what I founded!”, please. Also, her lack of self-awareness can’t be good for being the face of a nonprofit. And I wouldn’t want to work at a nonprofit run by her, she’d try to take credit for all the work her minions do and bring up how she selflessly sacrificed immunity for rice in one way or another 😆

How do you know she doesn't know much about how to start one?  Or her motivations for starting one because apparently you think you can read her mind.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Oh right, I forgot, Angelina can do ALL things, especially since she has degrees from Stanford and Yale. Probably as well as she negotiates, even! 

Everyone and their mom thinks they can start a successful nonprofit. It's not a corporation so it's super duper easy, right? Right. 

I'll believe it when I see it. 

[LanceM]

I see. Sounds like you are one of those viewers that can separate the person they see on an edited reality tv show with the actual person in their real life.  ok then.

[violet and green]

I guess ymmv, or rather ymmv greatly, but I found it an asshole move to proudly declare in a talking head that she used her feminine charms and amazing powers of 'persuasiveness' to get out of traffic violations.

I think she's just clueless, enthusiastic, and a bit entitled.

But it does seem odd that we have the woman who loudly declared to her mother on the loved one's visit that she gave up her spot in a challenge for rice for her tribe, because that's what she'd taught her, her mother had taught her to be selfless! Whilst coming across as a distinctly unselfless person, a ruthlessly self-centred person, in fact, in demanding Lyrsa be knifed by one of her fellow Davids for her jacket, etc...etc... working in a loud way for 'the benefit of others' - and not as said upthread by actually doing some charity work or offering her services to an existing organisation.

I think her edit shocked her and she decided to start a non-profit, whatever that is, to prove she is a selfless person - not the clueless narcissist she came across as on the show.

[LanceM]

So you believe she is leaving a senor consultant job at Deloitte to start a non-profit in order to prove that she is a selfeless person to viewers who will probably forget about her in a few weeks?  It legit shock ms that people think like this.  lol

Edited December 23, 2018 by LanceM

[seacliffsal]

I have been an educator for over 30 years at the secondary level (as a teacher and an administrator) at various public and private schools.  I have also served as Activities Director/Student Government Teacher at two different high schools.  At every single school at which I have been employed (in rural settings, Silicon Valley, California, and South Carolina) I have consistently observed that more females participate in student government than do males.  I just wonder how much research Angelina has conducted regarding the mission/objective of her proposed nonprofit.  

[Nashville]

13 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I can't remember who said it, but I always remember this when it comes to reality TV: they can't edit it if you didn't say it.

I posted that about a year or so back, but I doubt I’m the first to say it.  :)

[violet and green]

9 hours ago, LanceM said:

So you believe she is leaving a senor consultant job at Deloitte to start a non-profit in order to prove that she is a selfeless person to viewers who will probably forget about her in a few weeks?  It legit shock ms that people think like this.  lol

It legit shocks me that you've spent the entire season telling everyone all their impressions of Angelina are incorrect and that only you have the correct impression!

[Nashville]

Purely based upon my own (necessarily limited) life experience, but a person would only transition from a senior position at a Fortune 500 company to start a nonprofit for one of two reasons:

1. They have already enriched themselves to a point of financial independence sufficient to support early retirement for the rest of their foreseeable lives, and their desire for the remainder of their life is to pursue altruistic goals.
2. They got canned.

Dont think Occam’s Razor needs to be overly sharp to figure this’un out....

[SVNBob]

16 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I can't remember who said it, but I always remember this when it comes to reality TV: they can't edit it if you didn't say it.

Heather B. from the first season of the granddaddy of American reality TV, The Real World.  Specifically, on a reunion/preview show for the second season.  The cast were talking about how they were edited and Heather said that they shouldn't be too upset about anything since....

[LanceM]

7 hours ago, violet and green said:

It legit shocks me that you've spent the entire season telling everyone all their impressions of Angelina are incorrect and that only you have the correct impression!

I have never said that only my impressions are correct.  But yes I have disagreed plenty with what other people have written. That is kind of like what we do around here.

[ProfCrash]

42 minutes ago, LanceM said:

I have never said that only my impressions are correct.  But yes I have disagreed plenty with what other people have written. That is kind of like what we do around here.

Heck, I have spent the season complaining about Angelina and have been defending her over this non-profit thing. Not because I lvoe Angelina but because I don’t think she is trying to fleece people. I have no clue if it is needed or if other non-profits are doing the same thing but I don’t think she is trying to fleece people. 

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

Purely based upon my own (necessarily limited) life experience, but a person would only transition from a senior position at a Fortune 500 company to start a nonprofit for one of two reasons:

1. They have already enriched themselves to a point of financial independence sufficient to support early retirement for the rest of their foreseeable lives, and their desire for the remainder of their life is to pursue altruistic goals.
2. They got canned.

Dont think Occam’s Razor needs to be overly sharp to figure this’un out....

I think those are common reasons.  I think reason 3 would be they think they can make a nice living running the "charity" with a lot less work and pressure than in their Fortune 500 position.   

If Angelina had a passion for girls running for student government and chose to do it in her spare time and fund her "mission" by herself, or through bake sales and car washes, etc. I'd say more power to her. But, the fact that she left her job to run this organization full time, suggests she is expecting to draw something at least similar to her Fortune 500 paycheck from the organization.  

On the bright side, I suspect she will get little or no outside funding for her organization, because the cause is just not worthy of it.  She probably has a better shot a taxpayer grants, than private donations, as the government is liable to spend our money on just about anything.   

[marys1000]

I thought I'd cut and paste this from a Mike White interview.  I think it sums up Angelina for me although I suspect I would have wanted her out as I probably have more delicate nerves:) 

What about Angelina, considering you spent every day of the game together?
In the beginning, she drove me a little crazy. [Laughs] The Jeremy vote bummed me out. When she orchestrated that, I was like, “OK, I can’t deal with her. She’s got to go.” And when I got on Jabeni, it was weird that the two people from the Goliath tribe I wanted out the most were Angelina and Natalie. I was like, “I could just get rid of these two,” but I was scared of coming back having decimated the numbers of the Goliaths. I did come close to voting her out in the beginning. But over the course of being on the island with her, I really grew an appreciation for her. She’s a lot, she has a lot of ideas and energy and likes to be in charge. That can be aggravating, especially out there when you’re running on fumes. But she’s also fun. There’s something dynamic about her, and she’s smart. She gets it. There were many times where people were like, “Let’s get Angelina.” And I was like, “No, not Angelina! I don’t want Angelina out.” I was glad I got to do it all with her.

https://parade.com/726295/mikebloom/survivor-david-vs-goliath-mike-white-pitches-the-script-of-his-survivor-story/

 

Angelina hasn't just had some  epiphany on the show. 

If you look at her PRE SHOW bio she already had this non-profit started or at least planned out BEFORE the show.  I think she just quit her job to work at it full time. 

Hobbies: Traveling the world, trying new things, political activism, hosting margarita nights, dancing, workout classes, anything involving French bulldogs, and starting my non-profit Ready to Run, which encourages, empowers, and equips middle school and high school aged girls to run for student government positions in their schools.

Its pretty clear that the feelings driving her choice of non-profit are something she has felt strongly about for awhile.  I think she is just trying to leverage the moment to do something she has always wanted to do.  She is not dumb.  Socially tone deaf ok. But also from interviews (and they know better than anyone here) fun and kind and caring.  She also says she has a lot of student debt and so she has not managed to enrich herself as someone said.  And being married to a Marine isn't going to change that. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by marys1000

[Special K]

I've spent my entire career, 30+ years, working exclusively in non-profits, and it always annoys me how people in the for-profit sector will quit their jobs dramatically and use the non-profit sector as some kind of arena for their own self-fulfillment.  There is also a lot of hubris in "I'm going to start a non-profit!" with absolutely no charity experience.  Like charities are little clubs that anyone who works at Deloitte can figure out in their free time.  Non-profits can be way more complicated organizationally than for-profit businesses. 

Most of the people I have known who fled the corporate world for non-profit work ended up returning to corporate work.  Usually because they ended up wanting to tear their hair out just as much as they did on the corporate side.  :) It's not all hugging and kumbaya. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Special K

[cooksdelight]

On 12/24/2018 at 3:15 AM, Nashville said:

Purely based upon my own (necessarily limited) life experience, but a person would only transition from a senior position at a Fortune 500 company to start a nonprofit for one of two reasons:

1. They have already enriched themselves to a point of financial independence sufficient to support early retirement for the rest of their foreseeable lives, and their desire for the remainder of their life is to pursue altruistic goals.
2. They got canned.

Dont think Occam’s Razor needs to be overly sharp to figure this’un out....

She’ll blow through her share (after taxes) of the $90K third place money in no time.

[Bryce Lynch]

45 minutes ago, Special K said:

I've spent my entire career, 30+ years, working exclusively in non-profits, and it always annoys me how people in the for-profit sector will quit their jobs dramatically and use the non-profit sector as some kind of arena for their own self-fulfillment.  There is also a lot of hubris in "I'm going to start a non-profit!" with absolutely no charity experience.  Like charities are little clubs that anyone who works at Deloitte can figure out in their free time.  Non-profits can be way more complicated organizationally than for-profit businesses. 

Most of the people I have known who fled the corporate world for non-profit work ended up returning to corporate work.  Usually because they ended up wanting to tear their hair out just as much as they did on the corporate side.  :) It's not all hugging and kumbaya. 

I could see someone like Angelina running a program to encourage girls to run for student government as a part time thing with her own money, or funded by small local fundraisers like bake sales and car washes.  That would be admirable.  But, she tweeted that she is doing the Ready to Run full time and that she won't be taking a salary for 6 months and will use her Survivor winnings to cover her expenses during that time.  So, apparently she expects to be drawing a salary after 6 months.  I have a hard time imagining her raising enough each year to cover her old salary, much less cover her salary, all the other expenses of the non-profit and having money left over to go to programs.  

I don' t see why she couldn't do it part time, on the side, funded initially with some of her Survivor money.  Then, if the non-profit somehow took off and was making enough to pay her a salary close to what she made in the private sector, while still spending say 70 or 80% of contributions on programs, she could quit her day job and do it full time.   

[Mark2]

On 12/24/2018 at 2:15 AM, Nashville said:

Purely based upon my own (necessarily limited) life experience, but a person would only transition from a senior position at a Fortune 500 company to start a nonprofit for one of two reasons:

1. They have already enriched themselves to a point of financial independence sufficient to support early retirement for the rest of their foreseeable lives, and their desire for the remainder of their life is to pursue altruistic goals.
2. They got canned.

On 12/24/2018 at 11:11 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I think those are common reasons.  I think reason 3 would be they think they can make a nice living running the "charity" with a lot less work and pressure than in their Fortune 500 position.  

I have also seen public sector folks go down the tubes because of different public-sector employment that seemed more "noble."

13 hours ago, Special K said:

Most of the people I have known who fled the corporate world for non-profit work ended up returning to corporate work.  Usually because they ended up wanting to tear their hair out just as much as they did on the corporate side.  :) It's not all hugging and kumbaya. 

And I'd bet most who returned to the corporate world hit a set back compared to if they'd have stayed there.

On 12/25/2018 at 8:26 AM, marys1000 said:

Angelina hasn't just had some  epiphany on the show. 

If you look at her PRE SHOW bio she already had this non-profit started or at least planned out BEFORE the show.  I think she just quit her job to work at it full time. 

Hobbies: Traveling the world, trying new things, political activism, hosting margarita nights, dancing, workout classes, anything involving French bulldogs, and starting my non-profit Ready to Run, which encourages, empowers, and equips middle school and high school aged girls to run for student government positions in their schools.

Its pretty clear that the feelings driving her choice of non-profit are something she has felt strongly about for awhile.  I think she is just trying to leverage the moment to do something she has always wanted to do.  She is not dumb.  Socially tone deaf ok. But also from interviews (and they know better than anyone here) fun and kind and caring.  She also says she has a lot of student debt and so she has not managed to enrich herself as someone said.  And being married to a Marine isn't going to change that. 

She does list "Ready to Run" in the pre-show bio, along with convenient explanation of what its goals are.  But note that her official start date is this month on Linkedin.  It doesn't list it as volunteer prior to that, either.  One can file paperwork or even just say they've started a non-profit without really having done anything to support it.  I'll grant on the show she played up the women's equality angle, but I don't see her pitch translating to mass funding.

Why give money to someone who [might] be in and out of your state to raise money, but have no concept how the local people want to encourage student government participation?  Parents' helping their own students and donating to local groups (who often volunteer time) seems like the more solid, sustainable route.

A lot of student debt, and especially wanting to travel the world are a bit concerning conflicts to running a non-profit IMO.

Of course I could be wrong...I did think she'd take 2nd place after all.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 hours ago, Mark2 said:

Of course I could be wrong...I did think she'd take 2nd place after all.

Angelina got 3rd place, with zero votes.  Mike was 2nd.  

[Special K]

First of all, she'll have to file for non-profit status with the IRS, which can take anywhere from a few months to a year in normal times (can anyone say government shutdown?).  She won't be able to receive any contributions prior to that.  And she'll have to assemble a board of directors and write bylaws.  Unless she's planning on running it like a kickstarter project that people give to without tax benefit, and just run it like a little personal business.

Seems like maybe a beneficial local/regional project done in partnership with the schools, maybe with funding from the local Rotary club, etc.

As we've seen, Angelina is all spin, little bite.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Special K

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, Special K said:

First of all, she'll have to file for non-profit status with the IRS, which can take anywhere from a few months to a year in normal times (can anyone say government shutdown?).  She won't be able to receive any contributions prior to that.  And she'll have to assemble a board of directors and write bylaws.  Unless she's planning on running it like a kickstarter project that people give to without tax benefit, and just run it like a little personal business.

Seems like maybe a beneficial local/regional project done in partnership with the schools, maybe with funding from the local Rotary club, etc.

As we've seen, Angelina is all spin, little bite.

Yep, just like in Survivor, I suspect her charity scheme will fall flat.  If she were a bit more clever and competent, I suspect she would have run a shady "charity" taking maybe $200K a year in salary for herself, maybe putting a few family members and friends on the payroll and spending maybe $10K a year on actual programs, to break the patriarchy's grip on critical student government elections.

Actually, if she were brighter, she would have picked a cause that was not so ridiculous and might have raised a decent amount of money to enrich herself.  But, I just can't see large numbers of donors giving to a half bake political action committee, to get more girls elected treasurer of their middle school student governments.  

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Angelina got 3rd place, with zero votes.  Mike was 2nd.  

Which is around $80,000 I believe. I think Mike gets $100,000. I could be off on both but I think it’s close. Not bad for 39 days work. LOL!!!! Personally, I couldn’t take that much time off. I only get 2 weeks paid vacation. I don’t know if I took 6 weeks off that I would have a job to return to. LOL!!!!!

[Special K]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yep, just like in Survivor, I suspect her charity scheme will fall flat.  If she were a bit more clever and competent, I suspect she would have run a shady "charity" taking maybe $200K a year in salary for herself, maybe putting a few family members and friends on the payroll and spending maybe $10K a year on actual programs, to break the patriarchy's grip on critical student government elections.

Actually, if she were brighter, she would have picked a cause that was not so ridiculous and might have raised a decent amount of money to enrich herself.  But, I just can't see large numbers of donors giving to a half bake political action committee, to get more girls elected treasurer of their middle school student governments.  

Honestly, if she really wanted to pursue her cause (rather than promote herself), she might have started by contacting an existing girls' empowerment charity (there are LOTS), and offered to start a school-election program for/with them.  That's probably how I'd go about it if I were her.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Special K said:

Honestly, if she really wanted to pursue her cause (rather than promote herself), she might have started by contacting an existing girls' empowerment charity (there are LOTS), and offered to start a school-election program for/with them.  That's probably how I'd go about it if I were her.

Right!  Setting up a whole, new "charity", with all its own overhead, for her narrow cause, seems wasteful, at best.   If it were one program of a larger girls' charity that maybe offered scholarships, tutoring, classes, etc. it might make little more sense.

It just occurred to me that Angelina's theory that girls running for student office will lead to them becoming elected officials as women, is contradicted by her own life.  She was student government president at Stanford, which is one of the top universities in America, (and also took negotiating courses at Yale!) and hasn't gone into politics.  

[loki567]

Quote

It just occurred to me that Angelina's theory that girls running for student office will lead to them becoming elected officials as women, is contradicted by her own life.  She was student government president at Stanford, which is one of the top universities in America, (and also took negotiating courses at Yale!) and hasn't gone into politics.  

Yet. There was just a picture that went viral of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez bartending about a month before her election victory against her primary opponent. 

[LanceM]

3 hours ago, Special K said:

First of all, she'll have to file for non-profit status with the IRS, which can take anywhere from a few months to a year in normal times (can anyone say government shutdown?).  She won't be able to receive any contributions prior to that.  And she'll have to assemble a board of directors and write bylaws.  Unless she's planning on running it like a kickstarter project that people give to without tax benefit, and just run it like a little personal business.

Seems like maybe a beneficial local/regional project done in partnership with the schools, maybe with funding from the local Rotary club, etc.

As we've seen, Angelina is all spin, little bite.

She has already filed with the IRS and has stated that she can't receive contributions until non-profit status has been established. So she is fully aware of these things. It seems to me that people just continue to conflate her ineptitude at the game of Survivor to her own professional life which i just find odd

[blackwing]

On 12/22/2018 at 6:25 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Personally, I would delete my social media.  I wonder if the show FORCES them to keep social media accounts online in order to keep that money from the show.  If so I would think that that is very cruel.  Anyways, if I was forced to do so, I wouldn't use it or read it, I think, if this was the kind of thing that was happening.

Does she or anyone have an example of these "threats"?  Threats to me implies the possibility of actual physical harm.  "I know where you live and if I were you I'd be looking over my shoulder just in case someone stabs you in the back" = clearly unacceptable.  Nobody should actually be threatening her life.  But "You're a nasty person and if a hole opened up in the ground and swallowed you up, the world would be a better place." = to me, while it is not kind, it is just someone's opinion that they think she is a nasty person.  In this sentence, no one is saying that they themselves are going to kill her, they just don't like her.

By agreeing to appear on a reality TV show, she should have known that it wasn't going to be all rainbows and kittens.  She put herself out there in an effort to acquire fame and fortune.  If she wasn't prepared to handle criticism then she shouldn't have played.  I'm not surprised at all about her reaction.  It's the very same "What?  How dare two people on my tribe vote against me?!  I'm going to pack up all my toys and go over to the other side of the room" attitude that she had when she (temporarily) joined the Davids.  She can dish it out, but she can't take it.

On 12/23/2018 at 12:12 PM, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I think the only problem that I have with her starting a nonprofit, as someone who has worked in the nonprofit sector for almost all of my professional life, is that we already have plenty of nonprofits doing similar things and I throw a side eye to people who don’t know much about starting one but decide they’re going to do so anyway because of their ego and personal gain (and who knows how they’ll handle or run it later or how involved they’ll be). I’d be more impressed if she just did fundraising on behalf of another existing nonprofit or did some donating of her own. More collaboration with other organizations, less “look what I founded!”, please. Also, her lack of self-awareness can’t be good for being the face of a nonprofit. And I wouldn’t want to work at a nonprofit run by her, she’d try to take credit for all the work her minions do and bring up how she selflessly sacrificed immunity for rice in one way or another 😆

I think the concept of encouraging girls to get involved in student government is admirable, but I guess I don't know if there is overall a huge lack of girls in student government.  At my son's middle school, 75% of the candidates for student council were girls.  But I realise that it may not be like that across the country as a whole.

My issue with her non-profit is that it seems to me that she is making it all about her.  I have a feeling she is just latching onto a cause celebre all in an effort to promote herself and tell people how good of a person she is.  She could have quit her job and joined an existing non-profit... but in the end, as with what we saw in the game, she appears to have this inexorable need to always be in control.  She wants people to see her as selfless just like with her endless blathering about the rice, but ultimately, I wonder if she is just trying to help herself.

[LanceM]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Does she or anyone have an example of these "threats"?  Threats to me implies the possibility of actual physical harm.  "I know where you live and if I were you I'd be looking over my shoulder just in case someone stabs you in the back" = clearly unacceptable.  Nobody should actually be threatening her life.  But "You're a nasty person and if a hole opened up in the ground and swallowed you up, the world would be a better place." = to me, while it is not kind, it is just someone's opinion that they think she is a nasty person.  In this sentence, no one is saying that they themselves are going to kill her, they just don't like her.

By agreeing to appear on a reality TV show, she should have known that it wasn't going to be all rainbows and kittens.  She put herself out there in an effort to acquire fame and fortune.  If she wasn't prepared to handle criticism then she shouldn't have played.  I'm not surprised at all about her reaction.  It's the very same "What?  How dare two people on my tribe vote against me?!  I'm going to pack up all my toys and go over to the other side of the room" attitude that she had when she (temporarily) joined the Davids.  She can dish it out, but she can't take it.

I think the concept of encouraging girls to get involved in student government is admirable, but I guess I don't know if there is overall a huge lack of girls in student government.  At my son's middle school, 75% of the candidates for student council were girls.  But I realise that it may not be like that across the country as a whole.

My issue with her non-profit is that it seems to me that she is making it all about her.  I have a feeling she is just latching onto a cause celebre all in an effort to promote herself and tell people how good of a person she is.  She could have quit her job and joined an existing non-profit... but in the end, as with what we saw in the game, she appears to have this inexorable need to always be in control.  She wants people to see her as selfless just like with her endless blathering about the rice, but ultimately, I wonder if she is just trying to help herself.

Seriously?  I do not understand this take at all. If the majority of your alliance votes against you than that should be a bright red neon flashing sign in your head that you are a) at the bottom of your alliance and b) that the majority of your alliance doesn't care if you are gone.  You would be an absolute moron to continue being in that alliance. How may times have we seen people on Survivor stay at the bottom of their tribe and not make any move whatsoever to change things.  These people are then slammed relentlessly by Survivor fans.  There are many many many reasons to ciriticize Angelina last season.  Moving to the Davids was not one of them. It was one of the smartest things she did all season.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, LanceM said:

Seriously?  I do not understand this take at all. If the majority of your alliance votes against you than that should be a bright red neon flashing sign in your head that you are a) at the bottom of your alliance and b) that the majority of your alliance doesn't care if you are gone.  You would be an absolute moron to continue being in that alliance. How may times have we seen people on Survivor stay at the bottom of their tribe and not make any move whatsoever to change things.  These people are then slammed relentlessly by Survivor fans.  There are many many many reasons to ciriticize Angelina last season.  Moving to the Davids was not one of them. It was one of the smartest things she did all season.

Seriously though.

I will say though, this doesn't just seem to be an Angelina thing, Gabby got the same ridiculous shit too.

[Mark2]

8 hours ago, Special K said:

Seems like maybe a beneficial local/regional project done in partnership with the schools, maybe with funding from the local Rotary club, etc.

As we've seen, Angelina is all spin, little bite.

 

7 hours ago, Special K said:

Honestly, if she really wanted to pursue her cause (rather than promote herself), she might have started by contacting an existing girls' empowerment charity (there are LOTS), and offered to start a school-election program for/with them...

That's why said Rotary Clubs don't need a middle[wo]man....Who is trying to jump into a high level position w/o integrating with others.

 

8 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

...to break the patriarchy's grip on critical student government elections.

...But, I just can't see large numbers of donors giving to a...political action committee, to get more girls elected treasurer of their middle school student governments.  

Selectively quoting to be more generous; I do think her heart is in the right place, but that's not the basis for a successful business or charity.

 

6 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Right!  Setting up a whole, new "charity", with all its own overhead, for her narrow cause, seems wasteful, at best.   If it were one program of a larger girls' charity that maybe offered scholarships, tutoring, classes, etc. it might make little more sense....

After-school programs would be a better focus.  Data shows that these programs lift up students who could/would never even consider student government, college, or some extra-curricular activities.

Grooming for student government is about helping the top 10% a little bit, more than helping the bottom 50% in ways they need seriously more resources.

5 hours ago, loki567 said:

Yet. There was just a picture that went viral of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez bartending about a month before her election victory against her primary opponent. 

And by her subsequent statements, let's see how well that works out.

4 hours ago, LanceM said:

She has already filed with the IRS and has stated that she can't receive contributions until non-profit status has been established....

Seems she could have had the foresight to be prepared earlier.  I've filed federal paperwork, and it's not as inefficient as many think.  Like 24-48 hours response often.

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think the concept of encouraging girls to get involved in student government is admirable, but I guess I don't know if there is overall a huge lack of girls in student government.  At my son's middle school, 75% of the candidates for student council were girls.  But I realise that it may not be like that across the country as a whole.

Exactly - how about first we focus on the achievement gap across socioeconomic/racial/gender lines and look at everyone at students first.  Not girls, not black, not poor.  Just give extra attention to those falling behind, first.

So give resources for after school programs for the 50% falling behind, as opposed to extra resources devoted to advancement of a particular demographic (girls, in this case) in student government.  In my experience as well, boys/men were underrepresented as it is.

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Angelina got 3rd place, with zero votes.  Mike was 2nd.  

Just pointing out that I was wrong about predicting second place in a Nick-Mike-Angelina or Alison-Angelina-Mike hypothetical F3.  So if I could be wrong about, maybe the multitude of points above could be wrong and Angelina's charity will take off.

[KimberStormer]

Can I say it's weird that after seasons with Dan & Will, Scot & Jason, Hantzes etc, we have a season where pretty much everyone said "how refreshing, a nice cast that all likes each other", but people apparently still need to find someone to absolutely seethingly hate?  To call "that trash" and suchlike dehumanizing language?  About Angelina, of all people, a totally harmless goof that everyone in the actual game seems to have liked just fine?  Surely there's some better target for this ire out there in the world that you could think of without the slightest difficulty.  I mean, I spend an unusual amount of time thinking about Survivor, but jeez, it's just a game show, man.

[cooksdelight]

The last person who started a non-profit charity, with a Christian spin, who played on Survivor..... Mike Skupin. 

Angelina ... be careful where you go with this.

http://markmaynard.com/2013/12/michigans-michael-skupin-survivor-turned-christian-con-man/

[Eolivet]

@KimberStormer I'm curious where you come down on Jeff's "Angelina the powerful woman whose strong gameplay was too much for you to handle" narrative. I know I'd personally have a lot less of an issue with her if Jeff hadn't turned her into some type of "if she was a man, she'd be loved" martyr and "I want my daughter to be just like her" propping. Which admittedly isn't her fault, except that it reinforces behavior that some viewers found irritating -- and the very behavior that she complained about viewers (over)reacting to on social media.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Eolivet

[ProfCrash]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Can I say it's weird that after seasons with Dan & Will, Scot & Jason, Hantzes etc, we have a season where pretty much everyone said "how refreshing, a nice cast that all likes each other", but people apparently still need to find someone to absolutely seethingly hate?  To call "that trash" and suchlike dehumanizing language?  About Angelina, of all people, a totally harmless goof that everyone in the actual game seems to have liked just fine?  Surely there's some better target for this ire out there in the world that you could think of without the slightest difficulty.  I mean, I spend an unusual amount of time thinking about Survivor, but jeez, it's just a game show, man.

Agreed. I felt the same way two seasons ago with Chrissy, Ryan and Ben. They might not have played the game people would have wanted but they played in a very specific manner and really were not offensive. But the desire to find a villain, someone to root against, is just so strong that there was this overhyping of how awful they were on TV. The only problem I had with Ben was the ridiculous addition of the fire making challenge which saved him. 

I don’t agree with Probst but that doesn’t mean that Angelina is an awful person who is going to bilk people out of their hard earn dollars by starting a bogus non-profit. I thought she was an entitled brat at times on the show and was highly ineffective in any of her attempted moves but she wasn’t awful. She had the stupid fake idol move but that blew up on her. She was called out for her rice ridiculousness and the fake idol in final tribal. Overall, the cast seems to think that she is a good human being, if a bit tiresome sometimes. She is really not all that polarizing, I don’t know of too many people who thought she should win or really hated her. I think she was more of an annoyance, at worst, to humerous. 

I think the lack of a real villian led to people to come down hard on Angelina and Gabby who had the most easily identifiablly annoying traits out there. It is as if people cannot watch a show without having someone to root against.

I am glad Angelina didn’t win, I don’t think she played a good game. I am happy Nick won, I think he played a good game and did a good job winning immunity when he had to. I would have prefered a Davie win but Nick was my second choice. 

Overall, it was a good cast. Everyone was there to play, which was refreshing. They seemed to understand that it was a game and reacted that way. Overall a good cast and a good season.

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I will say though, this doesn't just seem to be an Angelina thing, Gabby got the same ridiculous shit too.

It's ridiculous to criticize Gabby's move even though it got her voted out?  

[Jextella]

15 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Can I say it's weird that after seasons with Dan & Will, Scot & Jason, Hantzes etc, we have a season where pretty much everyone said "how refreshing, a nice cast that all likes each other", but people apparently still need to find someone to absolutely seethingly hate?  To call "that trash" and suchlike dehumanizing language?  About Angelina, of all people, a totally harmless goof that everyone in the actual game seems to have liked just fine?  Surely there's some better target for this ire out there in the world that you could think of without the slightest difficulty.  I mean, I spend an unusual amount of time thinking about Survivor, but jeez, it's just a game show, man.

Agreed!  This one reason I don't visit certain other boards - other than to mine for spoilers.  The vitriol on some of them is unbearable and truthfully a little scary...not to mention sad and disheartening.  It also sucks out every ounce of entertainment value for me!   I play armchair psychologist way too often where reality tv is concerned - probably in real life too - which isn't "fair" since I'm no expert and I don't know these people.  And I snark as much as most and have said not-so-nice things about some people on the shows I follow, but I hope I don't ever venture over to the dark side spewing rage and venom.  

I also agree about Angelina.  To me, she is just as you describe - "a harmless goof that everyone in the actual game seems to have liked just fine".  In fact, more than fine.  Based on social media posts and interviews, Mike, Nick, Davie, and Jon like her a lot.  In his jury video, Dan says if he had to vote based on who was the nicest to him, it would be Angelina every day of the week.  I really enjoyed Angelina, and from what we were shown, she strikes me as someone who doesn't have a bad bone in her body and is a genuinely kind and good person.  I think she comes off as a little clueless sometimes because she's not a natural shark.  To me she's more of a natural "overachiever" (if there is such a thing!), but a nice one, and she played the game as such.  IMO, this is what made her game a little clunky and it is also what rubbed people the wrong way.  For me, on the other hand, it is what was most entertaining - and somewhat endearing.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Jextella

[blackwing]

3 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Agreed!  This one reason I don't visit certain other boards - other than to mine for spoilers.  The vitriol on some of them is unbearable and truthfully a little scary...not to mention sad, and disheartening.   I play armchair psychologist way too often where reality tv is concerned - probably in real life too - and I snark as much as most and have probably said not-so-nice things about some people on the shows I follow, but I hope I don't ever venture over to the dark side.

I also agree about Angelina.  To me, she is just as you describe - "a harmless goof that everyone in the actual game seems to have liked just fine".  In fact, more than fine.  Based on social media posts and interviews, Mike, Nick, and Jon like her a lot.  In his jury video, Dan says if he had to vote on who was the nicest to him, it would be Angelina every day of the week.  I really enjoyed Angelina, and based on what we've been shown, she strikes me as someone who doesn't have a bad bone in her body and is a genuinely kind and good person.  

I’m not sure where all the criticism about “the desire to find someone to be the villain” is coming from.   I don’t agree that she is a “genuinely kind and good person”.  She rubbed me the wrong way in the first episode with her condescending and insulting words about the David tribe and especially her “oh my bless their hearts, I feel so bad for them that they aren’t good looking and strong like we are” hand clasped to her chest gesture.  

Now before someone comes along and says “you’re making your judgment of her as a person based on a highly edited TV show”... I make my judgment because the words actually came out of her mouth.  Unless she comes along and tells us that she was forced to say all the words that we saw her saying... then yes, I will continue to believe that she is the person that said those words.  

As Jeff said, she is polarising.  I guess mileage definitely varies, because I would highly disagree that this arrogant, condescending, bossy and arrogant person “doesn’t have a bad bone in her body”.

[LanceM]

If that confessional was given in the middle of the season I might agree with you. But it wasn't.  It was clearly a producer driven confessional to get one of the Goliaths to say something cocky and arrogant about the David tribe to fit their theme and storyline of the season. I just can't take it seriously for that reason.  The second part of that scene with Angelina, Natalia, and Alison laughing (including Angelina's bless your heart gesture) can 100% be blamed on editing because as I have mentioned previously it was taken out of context and sequence.  They weren't laughing at the Davids coming onto the boat (with the convenient dodo music) they were laughing later on when one of the Davids said something funny.  But again because the theme and storyline was going to be about the arrogant and cocky Goliaths and the underdog Davids they inserted that clip when the Davids were coming on to the boat.  It was quite effective obviously and it set the tone of the season to what they wanted.

[KimberStormer]

6 hours ago, Eolivet said:

@KimberStormer I'm curious where you come down on Jeff's "Angelina the powerful woman whose strong gameplay was too much for you to handle" narrative. I know I'd personally have a lot less of an issue with her if Jeff hadn't turned her into some type of "if she was a man, she'd be loved" martyr and "I want my daughter to be just like her" propping. Which admittedly isn't her fault, except that it reinforces behavior that some viewers found irritating -- and the very behavior that she complained about viewers (over)reacting to on social media.

I mean, I don't agree with it necessarily, but I think it's nice of Jeff to stick up for her.  It's not like it's something he always does -- he has no problem raking people over the coals when he wants, from Dan Foley and Colton to even his ratings-eyed faves like R. Hantz ("That's a different game, Russell.")

But I mean, the closest male parallel to Angelina I can think of is Chris Noble from last season: completely harmless, completely delusional, and edited as a complete joke.  And I sure don't remember this kind of hate for him.  So while Jeff was doubtless overstating the case, I think he's not making it up out of whole cloth.

[Kenzie]

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

I’m not sure where all the criticism about “the desire to find someone to be the villain” is coming from.   I don’t agree that she is a “genuinely kind and good person”.  She rubbed me the wrong way in the first episode with her condescending and insulting words about the David tribe and especially her “oh my bless their hearts, I feel so bad for them that they aren’t good looking and strong like we are” hand clasped to her chest gesture.  

Now before someone comes along and says “you’re making your judgment of her as a person based on a highly edited TV show”... I make my judgment because the words actually came out of her mouth.  Unless she comes along and tells us that she was forced to say all the words that we saw her saying... then yes, I will continue to believe that she is the person that said those words.  

As Jeff said, she is polarising.  I guess mileage definitely varies, because I would highly disagree that this arrogant, condescending, bossy and arrogant person “doesn’t have a bad bone in her body”.

I agree with you on this, Angelina was perfectly fine with the idea of embarrassing Allison on national TV with her fake idol. She was looking forward to it in fact and only the crudeness of the idol tripped her up.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

But I mean, the closest male parallel to Angelina I can think of is Chris Noble from last season: completely harmless, completely delusional, and edited as a complete joke.  And I sure don't remember this kind of hate for him.  So while Jeff was doubtless overstating the case, I think he's not making it up out of whole cloth.

Now I really wish Angelina and Chris Noble would do a season together.

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I mean, I don't agree with it necessarily, but I think it's nice of Jeff to stick up for her.  It's not like it's something he always does -- he has no problem raking people over the coals when he wants, from Dan Foley and Colton to even his ratings-eyed faves like R. Hantz ("That's a different game, Russell.")

But I mean, the closest male parallel to Angelina I can think of is Chris Noble from last season: completely harmless, completely delusional, and edited as a complete joke.  And I sure don't remember this kind of hate for him.  So while Jeff was doubtless overstating the case, I think he's not making it up out of whole cloth.

The Chris Noble comparison is a good one.  They were both more mockable than hateable.  I think Angelina was a bit more hateable, or at least dislikable, because she was more grating and because of her unnecessary fake idol stunt.  Also, Noble was at least a challenge beast, whereas Angelina was pretty much useless.   

I'd like to see Noble and Angelina do a rap video together.  :)

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The Chris Noble comparison is a good one.  They were both more mockable than hateable.  I think Angelina was a bit more hateable, or at least dislikable, because she was more grating and because of her unnecessary fake idol stunt.  Also, Noble was at least a challenge beast, whereas Angelina was pretty much useless.   

I'd like to see Noble and Angelina do a rap video together.  :)

I think it's a decent comparison to some extent, but I'd say that Angelina is worse than Chris and that's why she invited more hate.  I recall Chris being hated plenty around here, and perhaps with good reason.  He was very arrogant.  But he put himself out there.  He and Dom got into a tiff and it was very clear that the battle lines were drawn and it was his alliance vs. Dom's alliance.  He also did well in challenges.

I don't recall him being as mean spirited or nasty or manipulative, however.  To me he seemed like just an overly self-centered guy.  That's where I see a difference with Angelina.  She was mean spirited and manipulative.  She tasked Natalie with acquiring either Nick or Lyrsa's jacket just because SHE was cold and implied that one of them was going home so might as well give her their coat.  Of course she made sure to have Natalie do it because Natalie was already abrasive and she didn't want her own reputation to suffer. 

Then of course the fake idol where she was all gleeful in her confessional about letting Alison find it and hoping she would use it and get embarrassed on TV.  Above all, she then proceeded to lie about it during final tribal where she told Alison the purpose wasn't to embarrass her and Nick just shook his head and said she wanted to embarrass her.  I was very impressed with Nick that he didn't elaborate further and explain in detail what she had said.

Chris is arrogant but I don't think he is a particularly bright person and he will just view himself as confident and strong.  He's a harmless meathead.

Angelina is arrogant but she is obviously a very intelligent individual (as she has clearly mentioned she went to Stanford and Yale) so that adds another level to her arrogance.  Not only is she arrogant but she is manipulative.  And to me, that makes for a very ugly personality.  The worst part is that she doesn't even see it.  She attributes her behaviour to being tired and cold and hungry and having to come up with "creative" solutions.  She will forever go through life thinking that her shit don't stank and that haters gonna hate, all because she is a "strong woman".  *eyeroll*

Edited December 28, 2018 by blackwing