The Spanish Princess - General Discussion

[nodorothyparker]

Your thread for Starz's next Philippa Gregory adaptation The Spanish Princess, based on The Constant Princess and The King's Curse.  No airdate announced yet as it's currently in production but I'm sure goofiness will abound in this one too as we know how much Gregory loooooves Henry VIII.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a19445266/spanish-princess-starz-news/

[Peper81]

In case anyone is interested, here's a link to a site that discusses the costumes for The Spanish Princess.  They don't have too many pictures but I am looking forward to it.

http://www.frockflicks.com/the-spanish-princess-katherine-of-aragons-wedding-gown/

[Scarlett45]

I started following on Twitter. 

 

https://twitter.com/spanishprincess/status/1045759817590009856?s=21

[Scarlett45]

I saw the teaser before this seasons premerie of Outlander. Yay that Katherine has auburn hair. 

[txvoodoo]

Teaser! 

[Scarlett45]

On 8/29/2018 at 2:46 PM, Peper81 said:

In case anyone is interested, here's a link to a site that discusses the costumes for The Spanish Princess.  They don't have too many pictures but I am looking forward to it.

http://www.frockflicks.com/the-spanish-princess-katherine-of-aragons-wedding-gown/

What a great site thanks for sharing. 

[Scarlett45]

https://ew.com/tv/2018/12/20/first-look-the-spanish-princess-catherine-of-aragon/

 

saw this article today. 

[nodorothyparker]

I see this latest series in the larger Gregory series is nothing if not consistent at just doing whatever the hell it wants.  Coming sometime this spring.

 

[car54]

Deadline article about the show.

https://deadline.com/2019/02/spanish-princess-race-henry-vii-parrot-stunt-double-tca-1202555800/

[Scarlett45]

May 5th y’all!

[blackwing]

I'm with the commenter in the EW article... is there historical basis for Margaret Pole being called "Maggie"?  I'm not the biggest fan of Phillippa Gregory... I get the sense she thinks she is historian writing fiction as opposed to a writer writing fictional novels about events that may or may not have some basis in fact.

[Steph J]

On 3/9/2019 at 9:38 AM, blackwing said:

I'm not the biggest fan of Phillippa Gregory... I get the sense she thinks she is historian writing fiction as opposed to a writer writing fictional novels about events that may or may not have some basis in fact.

Are you suggesting that the Battle of Barnet was not, in fact, won as a result of witchcraft?

[Nessie]

On 3/27/2019 at 12:22 AM, Steph J said:

Are you suggesting that the Battle of Barnet was not, in fact, won as a result of witchcraft?

OMG @Steph J I wish I could like your post 100 times!  I'm glad I didn't have anything in my mouth when I read it.

[Scarlett45]

I am going to watch this tomorrow on demand and then watch Game of Thrones. 

[vavera4ka]

just started it. Came here to say.... Il Magnifico! (loved Cowan in Da Vinci'd Demons, so happy to see him here, even if for a little while)

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, vavera4ka said:

just started it. Came here to say.... Il Magnifico! (loved Cowan in Da Vinci'd Demons, so happy to see him here, even if for a little while)

It was absolutely gorgeous. I know they’ve aged up Harry for dramatic purposes (he was 11 I think when Katherine married Arthur, several years younger than he’s being portrayed), because Katherine cannot make sex eyes at a child. That said I like the characterization of a Teenaged Harry as a pompous prick. 

What in the world is going on with Rosa? She’s a noble woman, selected to be Katherine’s lady and make a good marriage. Two sentences of compliments from the Duke and she’s compromising her honor? Makes her seem stupid. Had they built it up over a couple of episodes it would’ve worked better. Will this be a mini series or are they going to have several seasons and span it over Catherine’s life?

[Darlin]

I guess Richard Pole miraculously gained feeling/control/movement of his hand? It was immobile for all of The White Princess. 

[elle]

On 2/12/2019 at 6:05 PM, car54 said:

Deadline article about the show.

https://deadline.com/2019/02/spanish-princess-race-henry-vii-parrot-stunt-double-tca-1202555800/

From the above article:

They were married for 24 years — until Henry VIII became, you know, the Henry VIII who went on to have seven more wives.

Seven?!  For a total of eight? Did someone not fact check or were a couple of wives added by the show?

[bunnyface]

1 hour ago, elle said:

From the above article:

They were married for 24 years — until Henry VIII became, you know, the Henry VIII who went on to have seven more wives.

Seven?!  For a total of eight? Did someone not fact check or were a couple of wives added by the show?

I think that a lot of reporting (not journalism) these days follows the credo of "facts, schmacts."  Because finding out the correct number of wives would be terribly, terribly hard to figure out.  It's not like there's a childhood rhyme about it or anything.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, elle said:

They were married for 24 years — until Henry VIII became, you know, the Henry VIII who went on to have seven more wives.

I think the writer was confused by Herman's Hermits:

I'm Henry the eighth, I am
Henry the eighth, I am, I am
I got married to the widow next door
She's been married seven times before.

Sigh.

The show was beautiful.  I wasn't crazy about Isabella riding around in armor, lopping off heads, but other than that I enjoyed it.  It picked up nicely from where The White Princess ended.  I laughed when someone (Grandma Margaret maybe?) said something about Catarina being awed by London.  Right.

[legxleg]

I enjoyed this! I think that the whole letter-writing mix-up was a good choice - it makes for personal dramatic stakes, and sets the stage for a sort of contentious romance. She and Henry already have chemistry IMO - although I was a little curious about why he was taking her shoes off before she walked down the aisle. Was that a standard tradition at the time? I also agree that it's good they aged him up - I read Alison Weir's Katherine of Aragon book, and I enjoyed it for the most part, except where she is randomly musing about what a vital and good-looking 11-year-old Henry is and I was like  🙅‍♀️. I am glad they are avoiding that creepy dynamic.

I think Lina is an interesting character, and I hope that she gets a good storyline. So far, I am a little afraid that she is being portrayed as a scolding nag to everyone - don't pray Muslim prayers, don't flirt, don't take too long of a bath. But then again, it's not like she's wrong.  Rosa is being a real idiot right now, and I wonder how old she is supposed to be. 

[Scarlett45]

38 minutes ago, legxleg said:

Rosa is being a real idiot right now, and I wonder how old she is supposed to be. 

She’s “of age” in her culture, which she would need to be to be a Lady in Waiting to the Infanta, and make a match in England, so I’m guessing at least 15-17, maybe older. 

[legxleg]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

She’s “of age” in her culture, which she would need to be to be a Lady in Waiting to the Infanta, and make a match in England, so I’m guessing at least 15-17, maybe older. 

Thanks for the info! I think her behavior makes a lot more sense for a teenager. I guess she's like the Lydia Bennet of these ladies in waiting.

[slf]

Just saw the promo for this and everyone has atrocious Spanish accents. Hilariously bad. Why didn't they just cast Spanish actresses?

More Gregory trash, I assume. She's always been heavily biased toward KoA so I assume we won't be getting KoA's less appealing personality traits and less admirable actions.

[UNOSEZ]

Only about half way thru so far but.  Poor Arthur.. Henry kinda seems like a bit of a dick... Reminds me of Damon Salvatore from TVD... Didn't like him either... Loved Lina putting her foot down with the King's mother... I guess I need to look back at the other series to understand why Margaret and Elizabeth aren't on great terms??... Oh and queen Isabella was bad ass... I'd watch a TV show about her.. With her fighting.. And dealing with the Moorish problem.. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by UNOSEZ

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Only about half way thru so far but.  Poor Arthur.. Henry kinda seems like a bit of a dick... Reminds me of Damon Salvatore from TVD... Didn't like him either... Loved Lina putting her foot down with the King's mother... I guess I need to look back at the other series to understand why Margaret and Elizabeth aren't on great terms??... Oh and queen Isabella was bad ass... I'd watch a TV show about her.. With her fighting.. And dealing with the Moorish problem.. 

Elizabeth and Margaret are first cousins. In the time line of this show* Margaret’s younger brother Teddy, who was depicted as having an intellectual disability was held captive in the tower because he was a threat to Tudor Rule (as a legitimate son of George Duke of Clarence, the disgraced younger brother of Edward IV), and eventually murdered as a prerequisite for Katherine coming to England. Margaret feels Elizabeth betrayed her love and trust by killing Teddy given his disability and her commitment to Tudor rule. She also loved him as her brother and was protective of him after their parents died. She’s mad at Elizabeth but that’s still her cousin, easier to hate Katherine. 

*there are debates regarding how historically accurate this is. 

[RedheadZombie]

On 5/5/2019 at 8:19 PM, Darlin said:

I guess Richard Pole miraculously gained feeling/control/movement of his hand? It was immobile for all of The White Princess. 

Richard’s newly grown functional arm isn’t the only miracle - Maggie grew a foot and Lizzie aged twenty years.  At least they got Catherine’s hair color right finally.

Still not sure what I think of the actress portraying Catherine. I truly despised her on GOT, but it helps that she looks different.

I know Gregory makes up details but I don’t believe Catherine knew English, which was incredibly stupid when she’d been betrothed since the age of three.   Wikipedia (I know!) says she and Arthur wrote each other in Latin, but when they met they still couldn’t communicate because of the differing accents. 

[andromeda331]

I'm not sure what to think yet. I liked that Catherine for once didn't have black hair. I liked her standing up to the King's Mother. It would be so hard to move away from everything you know to place that's so different. I liked Queen Elizabeth, Isabella, and Lina. Not sure on Henry VII or VIII.  

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Richard’s newly grown functional arm isn’t the only miracle - Maggie grew a foot and Lizzie aged twenty years.  At least they got Catherine’s hair color right finally.

Still not sure what I think of the actress portraying Catherine. I truly despised her on GOT, but it helps that she looks different.

The miracles of television.  I did not recognize Charlotte Hope from GoT.  I did keep thinking the actress playing Maggie looked awfully familiar and was shocked to see she was Edith Crawley.  Funny, despite being played by a different actress I recognized the character as Maggie before she was identified.  

And yes, kudos to the casting people for knowing Catherine was blond(ish).

[RedheadZombie]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not sure what to think yet. I liked that Catherine for once didn't have black hair. I liked her standing up to the King's Mother. It would be so hard to move away from everything you know to place that's so different. I liked Queen Elizabeth, Isabella, and Lina. Not sure on Henry VII or VIII.  

I didn't care for Lizzie's constant hovering, hand wringing, sighing and moaning.  England will fall if not for the Spanish angel - she's come to save us from all the evils.  I actually didn't finish watching it because I was starting to dislike Catherine, and I needed a break.  I can't watch it if I can't buy into the heroine.  I guess I'm just over Gregory's ridiculous writing, and then they threw in that outrageous scene flash-back where Lizzie murders her own brother (which isn't even in the book).

How our spirited Lizzie turned into this anxious woman I don't know, but I'm sure it's from living with that whining drama king all of those years.  

[andromeda331]

7 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I didn't care for Lizzie's constant hovering, hand wringing, sighing and moaning.  England will fall if not for the Spanish angel - she's come to save us from all the evils.  I actually didn't finish watching it because I was starting to dislike Catherine, and I needed a break.  I can't watch it if I can't buy into the heroine.  I guess I'm just over Gregory's ridiculous writing, and then they threw in that outrageous scene flash-back where Lizzie murders her own brother (which isn't even in the book).

How our spirited Lizzie turned into this anxious woman I don't know, but I'm sure it's from living with that whining drama king all of those years.  

That was what that was? I was trying to figure out that scene but couldn't because it made zero sense. 

[Haleth]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

then they threw in that outrageous scene flash-back where Lizzie murders her own brother

Perkin Warbeck?

[KathieHC]

Just saw the first episode. I have watched The White Queen and The White Princess before. Philippa Gregory is like this historical fiction writer that gives explanation to certain events that never would have been possible otherwise. I read her books as entertainment but never took her seriously as a "historian". 

I liked Starz's White Queen despite inaccuracies due to it being an adaptation of PG's books. The White Princess, however, it's more of an ok-ish situation. I mean personally, the tv series is better than the book because the book is boring, but the tv series gets a lot of things wrong. 

Now, The Spanish Princess is a thing. I waited for it because I thought it's going to be great despite major inaccuracies. I gave them that benefit of the doubt. 

As I watch the episode, dear god. What is this thing I'm watching? It's like it's detached from its prequel shows. I know it's trying to do this new thing with the intro, but why do I get The Crown feels with that instead of TSP as a sequel to TWP. 

Then, we see the episode. They say it's drawn from The Constant Princess and The King's Curse, but I just don't feel that. Catherine did not speak English (in the book and real life). Catherine knows what happened to get her to England right from the start (in the book). Catherine and Arthur did not share rooms and they only meet on a specific day for love making (in the book). About Lina though, I'm not sure. I don't know if Catherine ever had a "Lina" who is a moor. She had a grand household when she first arrived in England but most of them left when things fell apart. The closest one that could have been Lina is a woman named Maria de Salinas. She's Catherine's constant friend and lady-in-waiting. I could go on, but I think this would be enough for now.

If they say drawn, they might as well not say that because they did not follow anything at the book at all. 

Sure, Philippa's books maybe trashy, but at least they are a lot less trashier than this show. I'd rather read her books than watch this. Even PG says nothing about this. 

[libgirl2]

18 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Only about half way thru so far but.  Poor Arthur.. Henry kinda seems like a bit of a dick... Reminds me of Damon Salvatore from TVD... Didn't like him either... Loved Lina putting her foot down with the King's mother... I guess I need to look back at the other series to understand why Margaret and Elizabeth aren't on great terms??... Oh and queen Isabella was bad ass... I'd watch a TV show about her.. With her fighting.. And dealing with the Moorish problem.. 

I think IRL he probably was. He certainly was in his later years. I think Catherine worked for him because she was almost a mother figure to him, that and he felt like he was rescuing the princess and that appealed to his chivalrous side. He had lost his mother and was very close to her. 

And Queen Isabella was a bad ass IRL. She rode into battle pregnant.

I wanted to see this but our cable just changed and we lost Starz. I'll probably just get it when it comes out and binge the whole series at once. I did that for White Queen /Princess.  

Edited May 7, 2019 by libgirl2

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Perkin Warbeck?

No, they flat out call the pretender Richard, Lizzie's brother.  She has him executed as he shouts out his righteousness and she sobs on her knees.  Absolute rubbish.

[Darlin]

I've watched all of PG's adapted TV shows, and I recognize they are trash and not historically accurate. But they're irresistible.  Or I have low standards. My biggest issue with The White Queen was that I kinda hated the protagonist.  Elizabeth Woodville got on my nerves and I wonder how much of that was the writing or Rebecca Ferguson's acting? 

Initially I really liked The White Princess, but Elizabeth of York became too cold.  I didn't like her in the end and hated her justifying her brother and Teddy's deaths.  And I could not NOT see Catelyn Stark as Our Lady the King's Mother.  But I always found Jodie Comer very appealing and thought she was a great actress in a bad TV show.  This was before she broke out in Killing Eve.

So far (it's only been 1 episode, LOL) I like Spanish Princess but I wonder what Charlotte Hope can really bring to this role? I find myself drawn to Stephanie Levi-Johnson as Lina.  And I kinda dig the new Margaret Beaufort and Maggie Pole.

Arthur has the worst wig I've ever seen. 

[Bill1978]

I started watching this after the latest episode of Game of Thrones. Sadly you could tell this series doesn't have as much money as the budget for Thrones. And I admit I was feeling tired so I stoped watching about 18 minutes in. Not a fan of how it seems they've gone out of the way to make Arthur look super nerdy and unappealing so Henry can be the hot hunk and the audience won't feel bad when Arthur kicks the bucket and Catherine moves on to his brother. That's the first misstep I feel the series has made. I'll be back once I've finished viewing the whole episode.

[shockermolar]

20 hours ago, KathieHC said:

I don't know if Catherine ever had a "Lina" who is a moor.

Apparently both Lina and Oveido are real people that are marginal footnotes in history.  Lina is likely based on Catalina de Cardones, who served as a Lady of the Bedchamber for almost 3 decades. She was married to a crossbowman named Ballestas. They were noted as Iberian Moors, although what that means in terms of phenotype we don't know. They would not have been the first black people in England, but may have been some of the few that were not slaves.  source: tudorsociety.com

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, shockermolar said:

Apparently both Lina and Oveido are real people that are marginal footnotes in history.  Lina is likely based on Catalina de Cardones, who served as a Lady of the Bedchamber for almost 3 decades. She was married to a crossbowman named Ballestas. They were noted as Iberian Moors, although what that means in terms of phenotype we don't know. They would not have been the first black people in England, but may have been some of the few that were not slaves.  source: tudorsociety.com

That is very cool!  Thanks, Shocker!

[ChelleGame]

Black Tudors: The Untold Story by Miranda Kaufman is a really interesting book. I found the book after hearing a lecture that mentioned Kaufman a couple years ago.

From there I read: Black Africans in Renaissance Europe by T.F. Earle.

There's another book (a novel) about a Black woman in the Scottish court during the same time period. Can't find the title but I'll keep looking if anyone is interested.

One of the most interesting tidbits in the Black Tudors book was a painting that showed John Blanke, a black musician who was a favorite of Henry VIII. He played to announce the jousts. His salary was listed in the court records. He was well paid for the time period.

I sent the info  about John Blanke to my high school niece. She wrote a cool paper imagining his life and got bonus points from her teacher for introducing her to something she didn't know. I got a sweet phone call after that.

Anyway, glad the series is back. Curious to see where they go. Nice to see Lady Edith again. I miss Downton.

[nodorothyparker]

So finally getting around to catching the first episode.  Ye gods, what did the actor playing Arthur do to the hair and wardrobe people to have them turn him out looking like this?  I know the real-life Arthur was reportedly a bit on the frail pallid side, but they really went overboard here to make him as unappealing and drippy looking as possible.  Of course they then give us a kind of jerky aged up hunky teenage Harry as a contrast.

Also I think? I'm a little impressed that the show managed an older recast of Maggie Pole who actually bears a resemblance to the younger actress in The White Princess with the same perpetual hang dog expressions.  Historical inaccuracies of who knew what when aside, I can appreciate why she's estranged from Lizzie and not exactly thrilled with her new high maintenance charge.  Poor simple Teddy in the Tower was locked up for years and denied an education or comfort of family and then summarily executed as part of the deal with Spain to get a bride for Arthur for the threat he potentially posed as a known remaining York boy.  I love how entitled Katherine is coming off to these people expecting to bathe every day!  They knew they were getting a princess from a much wealthier country.  What did they expect?  England was kind of low rent and run down in comparison to Spain at this point.   This third incarnation of Margaret Beaufort feels like a bit of a comedown after Michelle Fairley's Maleficent would-be serial killer turn in the last series.  It took me a moment in a couple of those scenes for it to register that that's who she was and not just a really bossy housekeeper.

This article and this one also talk about how Lina is based on a real person and the reality that there were people of color in medieval Europe.  They're just so rarely depicted that people often assume they're PC anachronisms when they are portrayed.  Of course Christopher Columbus gets a cameo in this, as does Isabella I of Spain.  As one of the few badass warrior queens of Europe, I've always wanted to see somebody do something with her story, although I do realize what a minefield that would be with all the theocratic horror and conquest that can be laid at her feet.

No, the show obviously doesn't have Game of Thrones money, but at least it's so far looking less cheap and vaguely generic fairy tale in costumes and sets than the previous two series.

[LilWharveyGal]

Hi, Arthur!  Bye, Arthur!  If only a handsome man had taken you into the barn and stripped off your clothes you might have lived.

[legxleg]

Oh Lina. I'm rooting for you, but is your reaction to being sick really 'well, I guess I'll drag myself into the woods to die all alone'? I appreciate that she was trying to protect Catherine, and also probably not thinking as coherently as usual, but still...that was a weird choice, writers. Although, it clearly worked out better for her than having all the doctors in the land did for Arthur so hey, she might be on to something.

So they made a choice to have Catherine and Arthur not have slept together at the time of the 'I was in Spain last night' conversation, but definitely did sleep together afterwards. I'm curious how they will make things flow between this show and The Other Boleyn Girl (which I assume they'll be making next). 

I like the way they have set up Catherine's dowry being necessary to send Mary off and make the peace treaty with Scotland. This way Henry VII doesn't come across as just being extra greedy by worrying about money so much. Also, Mary seemed so young. I really felt for her, being sent off to marry into a country she has been taught to hate. I recognize that this was completely normal for royal girls at the time, but I still imagine that it was really scary. And just compare it to Catherine - in the show, she knew who she was going to marry from the time she was an actual child, she was prepared, she (thought she) was corresponding with her future husband - so she can come in with a measure of confidence (although she's got her share of trouble in this, as we see). Mary is just thrown into things with no warning, and I do feel bad for her.

[watcher1006]

I haven't read any of the Philippa Gregory books but does she actually come out and say that the marriage between between Arthur and Catherine was consummated? That lies at the heart of the whole matter of "The Great Question" leading to Henry VIII breaking from Rome and historically she told the Pope herself that it was not.

[kieyra]

On 5/6/2019 at 1:03 AM, bunnyface said:

I think that a lot of reporting (not journalism) these days follows the credo of "facts, schmacts."  Because finding out the correct number of wives would be terribly, terribly hard to figure out.  It's not like there's a childhood rhyme about it or anything.

One of my favorite, and usually carefully-researched podcasts, just this week referred to something William the Conqueror did “in the late 18th century”. Granted, they’re not specifically a history podcast, but they are informational/educational (Stuff You Should Know), and this had me grinding my teeth and checking Wikipedia to make sure it wasn’t my own Alzheimer’s setting in. 

Edited to add: on topic, I’ve kind of half watched the two episodes. Poor Arthur and his poor hair. I like the Katherine actress. Henry VII seems a little wimpy so far. Maybe I’ve missed some ruthlessness. 

Also, regarding a post just upthread that I can’t easily quote on mobile ... isn’t it Margaret getting shipped off to Scotland, not Mary? (I know The Tudors made the sisters into a composite entity, but pretty sure I saw her called Maggie during negotiations.)

Edit 2, oh heck, friends, we’re spelling it Catherine now? Okay. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by kieyra

[qtpye]

On 5/11/2019 at 11:26 PM, nodorothyparker said:

So finally getting around to catching the first episode.  Ye gods, what did the actor playing Arthur do to the hair and wardrobe people to have them turn him out looking like this?  I know the real-life Arthur was reportedly a bit on the frail pallid side, but they really went overboard here to make him as unappealing and drippy looking as possible.  Of course they then give us a kind of jerky aged up hunky teenage Harry as a contrast.

Also I think? I'm a little impressed that the show managed an older recast of Maggie Pole who actually bears a resemblance to the younger actress in The White Princess with the same perpetual hang dog expressions.  Historical inaccuracies of who knew what when aside, I can appreciate why she's estranged from Lizzie and not exactly thrilled with her new high maintenance charge.  Poor simple Teddy in the Tower was locked up for years and denied an education or comfort of family and then summarily executed as part of the deal with Spain to get a bride for Arthur for the threat he potentially posed as a known remaining York boy.  I love how entitled Katherine is coming off to these people expecting to bathe every day!  They knew they were getting a princess from a much wealthier country.  What did they expect?  England was kind of low rent and run down in comparison to Spain at this point.   This third incarnation of Margaret Beaufort feels like a bit of a comedown after Michelle Fairley's Maleficent would-be serial killer turn in the last series.  It took me a moment in a couple of those scenes for it to register that that's who she was and not just a really bossy housekeeper.

This article and this one also talk about how Lina is based on a real person and the reality that there were people of color in medieval Europe.  They're just so rarely depicted that people often assume they're PC anachronisms when they are portrayed.  Of course Christopher Columbus gets a cameo in this, as does Isabella I of Spain.  As one of the few badass warrior queens of Europe, I've always wanted to see somebody do something with her story, although I do realize what a minefield that would be with all the theocratic horror and conquest that can be laid at her feet.

No, the show obviously doesn't have Game of Thrones money, but at least it's so far looking less cheap and vaguely generic fairy tale in costumes and sets than the previous two series.

On a shallow note they gave Arthur that horrible haircut and Henry’s hair looks great. The actress playing Katherine is like a fiery porcelain doll. Her two Spanish ladies are also quite attractive. I am a great fan of this time period but you have to let historical accuracy go and just enjoy this as a campy soap opera. 

[nodorothyparker]

7 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

I haven't read any of the Philippa Gregory books but does she actually come out and say that the marriage between between Arthur and Catherine was consummated? That lies at the heart of the whole matter of "The Great Question" leading to Henry VIII breaking from Rome and historically she told the Pope herself that it was not.

The storyline thus far is based on The Constant Princess, in which yes, Gregory does let them consummate the marriage and then later set Katherine about emphatically denying it.  Gregory's books can be as entertaining as hell but you learn pretty quickly not to take them as gospel on any historical point as the woman never met a half-baked theory or rumor from the time period that she couldn't spin as narrative fact. 

[Bill1978]

I was kinda hoping for more than 2 episodes of the Arthur/Catherine love story. I was really looking forward to 'learning' more about this often overlooked part of the Tudor Period. But silly me forgot that The Tudors are all about hunky Henry. While I know (well hope) we will get to see more about Henry's life reign before Anne Boleyn I really feel they've rushed the Arthur part of Catherine's life.

I haven't actually read The Constant Princess but

Spoiler

but doesn't Arthur convince Catherine to lie about them having sex so she can still be Queen of England or something like that? I was hoping to see that conversation. Maybe we will in a dramatic flashback or something

I understand historically that Arthur had that haircut, but for crying out loud Henry sshoudl also have that haircut since it was the in do back then. But I guess the productions idea was we have to have the viewers want Catherine to be smitten with the selfish hunky woe is me brother, make the oldest brother as geeky Big Bang Theory as possible. Character wise I much prefer limp as a wet sock Arthur over spoilt brat Henry. You could see the gleam in his eye when he found out his brother died.

Margaret Beaufort continues to be Cersei of this series, I hope I get to see her die. And hopefully they go for something more dramatic than her dying in her sleep, screw history.

Really felt for Margaret the Younger's fate. Hopefully we will get to follow her story a bit more, although I did notice that this series doesn't draw upon The 3 Sisters, 3 Queens book so I guess we will just see her leave for Scotland and that will be that.

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, kieyra said:

One of my favorite, and usually carefully-researched podcasts, just this week referred to something William the Conqueror did “in the late 18th century”. Granted, they’re not specifically a history podcast, but they are informational/educational (Stuff You Should Know), and this had me grinding my teeth and checking Wikipedia to make sure it wasn’t my own Alzheimer’s setting in. 

Edited to add: on topic, I’ve kind of half watched the two episodes. Poor Arthur and his poor hair. I like the Katherine actress. Henry VII seems a little wimpy so far. Maybe I’ve missed some ruthlessness. 

Also, regarding a post just upthread that I can’t easily quote on mobile ... isn’t it Margaret getting shipped off to Scotland, not Mary? (I know The Tudors made the sisters into a composite entity, but pretty sure I saw her called Maggie during negotiations.)

Edit 2, oh heck, friends, we’re spelling it Catherine now? Okay. 

Yes, Margaret went to Scotland. Mary went to France but came back after her husband died and eloped with Grey. Margaret eventually came back too for a time. I wonder if we'll get that wonderful lecture from Henry to Margaret regarding her divorcing her second husband for husband number three which in about decade will make him a complete hypocrite. I hope we actually get Margaret's story which usually gets over looked. 

[Darlin]

11 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

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Really felt for Margaret the Younger's fate. Hopefully we will get to follow her story a bit more, although I did notice that this series doesn't draw upon The 3 Sisters, 3 Queens book so I guess we will just see her leave for Scotland and that will be that.

Could that book be the next series and not The Other Boleyn?  I've always been fascinated by the Anne/Henry VIII story but I'd rather see a TV show focusing on Mary, Margaret and an older Katherine, even if it's Phillipa Gregory's skewed interpretation. I'm confused as to how Margaret is related to Mary Queen of Scots,