S04.E03 Something Beautiful

[Clanstarling]

9 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Oh, I’ll take a vet over an M.D. any day. They gotta be able to cure a lizard, a chicken, a pig, a frog - all on the same day.

I know, right? They have to learn to diagnose, perform surgery on, and heal many species - who cannot communicate about the specifics of their illness/injuries. Transfusion, cutting into flesh, stitching - those are definitely cross-over skills.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Clanstarling said:

I know, right? They have to learn to diagnose, perform surgery on, and heal many species - who cannot communicate about the specifics of their illness/injuries. Transfusion, cutting into flesh, those are definitely cross-over skills.

True, it is amazing that vets can treat so many different species, though I was actually quoting Kramer from Seinfeld.  

Then, again, patient communication may be very overrated, as we know from House, MD that all patients lie. :)

[ShadowFacts]

11 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

True, it is amazing that vets can treat so many different species, though I was actually quoting Kramer from Seinfeld.  

Then, again, patient communication may be very overrated, as we know from House, MD that all patients lie. :)

I'll take a trauma surgeon in a sterile environment over a vet in a warehouse, was it? any day.  Nacho is as lucky as the day is long. 

Nacho is not going to be able to hide his injuries from his father, and I don't think dad's going to take this very well.  He's a wild card. 

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, and it doesn't hurt that Mike is one of those people like Willie Nelson who always look like they are the same age as when I first saw them. 

 

I'm not up for much violence, sanitized or not, but I think realism took a little holiday with Nacho surviving being gutshot, in shock, laying in the desert, transfused by a vet. 

I dunno,  I thought the vet's explanation,  that if the bullet nicked his intestines (the cousin deliberately placed the shot on the periphery of his torso, after all), Nacho was a dead man  absent actual hospital care, was pretty accurate. People, especially people in war zones, get shot with some frequency, and they don't all die, absent first rate trauma care. Stop the bleeding, clean the wound, replace the blood, administer antibiotics, and a fair amount of people live. Nacho received better trauma care than any wounded soldier at the Battle of Gettysburg.

[ShadowFacts]

33 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I dunno,  I thought the vet's explanation,  that if the bullet nicked his intestines (the cousin deliberately placed the shot on the periphery of his torso, after all), Nacho was a dead man  absent actual hospital care, was pretty accurate. People, especially people in war zones, get shot with some frequency, and they don't all die, absent first rate trauma care. Stop the bleeding, clean the wound, replace the blood, administer antibiotics, and a fair amount of people live. Nacho received better trauma care than any wounded soldier at the Battle of Gettysburg.

Pretty indisputable that he fared better than people who were wounded in the 1860s, but I still say very lucky.  People in war zones today, depends where they get shot.  Blood loss from two gunshots alone could have done it, but we don't know how long he was lying there, how long it took to get him to the vet.  It would have had to have been pretty fast and he looked like he was suffering from exposure.  I think the odds were against him surviving.  It wasn't a cousin who placed the shot, that was Tyrus or Victor.  And there was no way they could know if Salamanca help would be very fast, so it must not have mattered to Gus if Nacho didn't make it. 

[SoMuchTV]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Oh, I’ll take a vet over an M.D. any day. They gotta be able to cure a lizard, a chicken, a pig, a frog - all on the same day.

And a fish!

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Pretty indisputable that he fared better than people who were wounded in the 1860s, but I still say very lucky.  People in war zones today, depends where they get shot.  Blood loss from two gunshots alone could have done it, but we don't know how long he was lying there, how long it took to get him to the vet.  It would have had to have been pretty fast and he looked like he was suffering from exposure.  I think the odds were against him surviving.  It wasn't a cousin who placed the shot, that was Tyrus or Victor.  And there was no way they could know if Salamanca help would be very fast, so it must not have mattered to Gus if Nacho didn't make it. 

I always confuse my violent cartel gun thugs!

[PeterPirate]

The Salamanca twins use guns from time to time, but to actually kill a person they prefer axes.  

[Bryce Lynch]

57 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Pretty indisputable that he fared better than people who were wounded in the 1860s, but I still say very lucky.  People in war zones today, depends where they get shot.  Blood loss from two gunshots alone could have done it, but we don't know how long he was lying there, how long it took to get him to the vet.  It would have had to have been pretty fast and he looked like he was suffering from exposure.  I think the odds were against him surviving.  It wasn't a cousin who placed the shot, that was Tyrus or Victor.  And there was no way they could know if Salamanca help would be very fast, so it must not have mattered to Gus if Nacho didn't make it. 

Didn't either Tyrus or Victor tell Nacho to hurry up and call for help, before he passed out?  What would they have done if he passed out before he could make the call?   Just let him die?  Maybe call the Cousins on Nacho's phone using Jimmy's sex robot voice?   

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'll take a trauma surgeon in a sterile environment over a vet in a warehouse, was it? any day.  Nacho is as lucky as the day is long.

I would too - but then again, I'm not a criminal with gunshot wounds that would be reported if I went to the hospital. I don't know that Nacho's out of the woods yet - so I think the jury's out on whether or not he's lucky.

[Gobi]

28 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Didn't either Tyrus or Victor tell Nacho to hurry up and call for help, before he passed out?  What would they have done if he passed out before he could make the call?   Just let him die?  Maybe call the Cousins on Nacho's phone using Jimmy's sex robot voice?   

I agree with those who think that they would prefer he live, but wouldn't be upset if he died.

[ShadowFacts]

49 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Didn't either Tyrus or Victor tell Nacho to hurry up and call for help, before he passed out?  What would they have done if he passed out before he could make the call?   Just let him die?  Maybe call the Cousins on Nacho's phone using Jimmy's sex robot voice?   

Yes, that was said, but I think they just kept walking then.  Kind of like, save yourself dude, we aren't going to.  Their orders are from Gus and and if he told them to make it look good, I think he didn't care if Nacho died then and there.  He's already expendable. 

35 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I would too - but then again, I'm not a criminal with gunshot wounds that would be reported if I went to the hospital. I don't know that Nacho's out of the woods yet - so I think the jury's out on whether or not he's lucky.

He really had no say about it, he was completely at the mercy of the Salamancas.  I agree he's not out of the woods on multiple levels. 

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

 And there was no way they could know if Salamanca help would be very fast, so it must not have mattered to Gus if Nacho didn't make it. 

Not only wouldn't they know how fast Salamanca help would arrive, Tyrus and Victor would have no way of assessing how much damage that bullet did or how long before he bled out. So yes, Nacho's survival probably wasn't high on Gus' priority list. Right now, Nacho isn't in an enviable position.

[Bcharmer]

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Since Gale was one of the few characters of Breaking Bad who had socially redeeming qualities but whose character was, nevertheless, literally fatally flawed, I liked seeing him again as a tribute to his endearing aspects and a reminder of what led to his ignoble end.

Seeing him made my heart soar. David Costabile looks like he hadn't aged a day since BB. Gale is such a different character from Wags... but I love them both.  I loved him on Damages, too.

[DangerousMinds]

I barely notice any age differences either.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 8/23/2018 at 3:39 PM, jdg said:

I was hoping Gale was going to say, "and this one sample looks like it has traces of Chili Powder in it!"

I thought that is what he meant when he said the 67% sample had some easy to avoid impurities, I figured he was talking about Jesse and the damn chilli powder.

[gallimaufry]

I don't buy the letter being forged.  It contains Chuck's jealousy over Jimmy's presence in their mother's life and his pride in keeping Jimmy in the mailroom.  That's all quite personal to Chuck and quite believable.  Jimmy's reaction is indifferent because the pomposity of the letter isn't anything new.  I also think we'd have seen Kim swap it if they were going to do that - they seem to prefer the drama of watching people doing wrong things than revealing foul intent in retrospect.

Kim's reaction to the Mesa Verde expansion will be interesting.  That scene was beautifully shot (as they all are).  Her going to the court would be fun.  If she's going for a nobler calling, perhaps she'll go into criminal law?  That would keep her on the same track as Jimmy for a while longer.

One negative note.  As much as I like BB, this is the first episode where I felt that the prequel status was a real impediment.  Yes, it was fun to see Gael but I'm not sure it added anything to our sum knowledge of his character, Gus's character or the universe.  Indeed, Nacho is now the only major character in the cartel arc who doesn't have a thoroughly sketched out ending on BB.  Moreover, while Jimmy is still in the process of changing towards his BB character (and there is potential for after), only Mike among them still has much change to get to their BB status (and Mike's not too far off).  What have we really learned about Gus's character since he returned that we didn't know from BB?  This universe's greatest strength is showing characters change quite drastically but the closer we get into the BB prequel orbit the less room I can see for that and that's a pity.  Hopefully it'll pick up - there's still a lot to say about Gus in particular with respect to his family, past etc. and I hope they explore this aspect soon.

[Kel Varnsen]

7 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

 

One negative note.  As much as I like BB, this is the first episode where I felt that the prequel status was a real impediment.  Yes, it was fun to see Gael but I'm not sure it added anything to our sum knowledge of his character, Gus's character or the universe.  Indeed, Nacho is now the only major character in the cartel arc who doesn't have a thoroughly sketched out ending on BB.  Moreover, while Jimmy is still in the process of changing towards his BB character (and there is potential for after), only Mike among them still has much change to get to their BB status (and Mike's not too far off).  What have we really learned about Gus's character since he returned that we didn't know from BB?  This universe's greatest strength is showing characters change quite drastically but the closer we get into the BB prequel orbit the less room I can see for that and that's a pity.  Hopefully it'll pick up - there's still a lot to say about Gus in particular with respect to his family, past etc. and I hope they explore this aspect soon.

Gale showing up doesn't bother me that much since he really was a long term project of Fring's. If memory serves Gus awarded him a scholarship and/or funded his graduate research. It would be a years long thing before Gus could even mention Meth to him. So to me he should totally be around at this stage.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, gallimaufry said:

I don't buy the letter being forged.  It contains Chuck's jealousy over Jimmy's presence in their mother's life and his pride in keeping Jimmy in the mailroom.  That's all quite personal to Chuck and quite believable.  Jimmy's reaction is indifferent because the pomposity of the letter isn't anything new.  I also think we'd have seen Kim swap it if they were going to do that - they seem to prefer the drama of watching people doing wrong things than revealing foul intent in retrospect.

Kim's reaction to the Mesa Verde expansion will be interesting.  That scene was beautifully shot (as they all are).  Her going to the court would be fun.  If she's going for a nobler calling, perhaps she'll go into criminal law?  That would keep her on the same track as Jimmy for a while longer.

One negative note.  As much as I like BB, this is the first episode where I felt that the prequel status was a real impediment.  Yes, it was fun to see Gael but I'm not sure it added anything to our sum knowledge of his character, Gus's character or the universe.  Indeed, Nacho is now the only major character in the cartel arc who doesn't have a thoroughly sketched out ending on BB.  Moreover, while Jimmy is still in the process of changing towards his BB character (and there is potential for after), only Mike among them still has much change to get to their BB status (and Mike's not too far off).  What have we really learned about Gus's character since he returned that we didn't know from BB?  This universe's greatest strength is showing characters change quite drastically but the closer we get into the BB prequel orbit the less room I can see for that and that's a pity.  Hopefully it'll pick up - there's still a lot to say about Gus in particular with respect to his family, past etc. and I hope they explore this aspect soon.

I'm pretty sure the purpose, plot wise, of having Gale show up was to establish the means by which Gus ramps up meth production, on the U.S. side of the border, so as to advance his plan to destroy Don Eladio,  and his organization, which Nacho is now firmly emmeshed in. Gale's arrival, I think, will have something to do how Nacho's story proceeds. Will Gale make another appearance, providing more illumination into his character? I don't know, and I kind of doubt it, but his cameo here didn't put me off or seem like cheap fan service.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, gallimaufry said:

One negative note.  As much as I like BB, this is the first episode where I felt that the prequel status was a real impediment.  Yes, it was fun to see Gale but I'm not sure it added anything to our sum knowledge of his character, Gus's character or the universe...

I'm of two minds. I actually totally agree with you that Gale showed up purely to delight the BB fans. (Notwithstanding that you can create a rationale for his appearance, let's face it, the audience squeal-of-delight factor is why VG put him there.) On the other hand, I did get a little thrill seeing him, and I was interested to see how he first comes into the picture.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 8/20/2018 at 9:43 PM, Irlandesa said:

First, the negative: There was a little too much pure cartel/violence stuff for me.

 

Me too.  I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I am not really in this show to see a Breaking Bad prequel; I much prefer the original premise of the Saul Goodman prequel.

That being said, could someone please explain to me the whole scenario with Nacho being shot, the car being destroyed etc? (Or point me to the page on which this is discussed?) Who is on whose side? Who does Gus work for?  Which people are the side that is not Salamancas (spelled wrong, I know)?  Sorry if I'm dense but I find this stuff hard to follow.  

[Kel Varnsen]

3 minutes ago, MaryPatShelby said:

That being said, could someone please explain to me the whole scenario with Nacho being shot, the car being destroyed etc? (Or point me to the page on which this is discussed?) Who is on whose side? Who does Gus work for?  Which people are the side that is not Salamancas (spelled wrong, I know)?  Sorry if I'm dense but I find this stuff hard to follow.  

Gus killed the guy with Natcho in thw Hermanos parking lot. He hates the Salamancas but doesn't want them to know. So he moved the body to make it look like a drive by done by some other dudes. Natcho now works for Gus now because of the pill thing. So Natcho agreeing to be  in the car and take a few bullets was Gus's way of making the drive by story believable. The cousins burned the car so that when cops find it, it's  a lot harder to gather evidence.

I just wasn't clear what the point of dropping the bits of glass from the moving car was.

[Bannon]

43 minutes ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Me too.  I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I am not really in this show to see a Breaking Bad prequel; I much prefer the original premise of the Saul Goodman prequel.

That being said, could someone please explain to me the whole scenario with Nacho being shot, the car being destroyed etc? (Or point me to the page on which this is discussed?) Who is on whose side? Who does Gus work for?  Which people are the side that is not Salamancas (spelled wrong, I know)?  Sorry if I'm dense but I find this stuff hard to follow.  

The Salamancas and Gus both work for Don Eladio, and his capo, Juan Bolsa, in Mexico. The Salamancas and Gus are kind of competing divisions, in the meth import and distribution business that Eladio  controls. Gus is a lot more sophisticated and efficient than the Salamancas, which caused Hector to hate Gus even more. Gus hates the Salamancas  Eladio, and Bolsa, because when Gus first proposed to Eladio entry into the meth  business, Eladio had Hector murder Gus' partner and perhaps lover, as a means of control via intimidation. Gus has for years thus been embarked on a very patient  years long plan to destroy Eladio, Bolsa, and most of all Hector. 

To do this however, he must first have production ability in the U.S., before destroying Eladio. Step one is to undermine and disrupt the Salamancas, making Eladio and Bolsa more dependent on Gus. Encountering Nacho, bent on destroying Hector, was a happy accident, and killing the Salamanca soldier with the bag over his head ensures that Nacho runs the Salamancas in the U.S., while secretly being controlled by Gus. Gus had the soldier's car and corpse shot up to make his death look like a drug robbery, like Mike once pulled off, they shot Nacho so suspicion would not fall on him. The Salamancas burnt the car as part of standard evidence destroying procedure.

Now the Eladio operation is afraid to bring drugs across the border  and Gus thinks that Bolsa/Eladio will give him the ok to start US production. Which now means Gus can spring his trap, first on Bolsa  then Eladio.

These writers are some of the best plotters I've ever enjoyed.

34 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Gus killed the guy with Natcho in thw Hermanos parking lot. He hates the Salamancas but doesn't want them to know. So he moved the body to make it look like a drive by done by some other dudes. Natcho now works for Gus now because of the pill thing. So Natcho agreeing to be  in the car and take a few bullets was Gus's way of making the drive by story believable. The cousins burned the car so that when cops find it, it's  a lot harder to gather evidence.

I just wasn't clear what the point of dropping the bits of glass from the moving car was.

To make it appear as if the car was being shot up while it was moving.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Bannon
wrote bolsa instead of gus

[MaryPatShelby]

@Bannon and @Kel VarnsenThank you so much!!

[Irlandesa]

13 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

One negative note.  As much as I like BB, this is the first episode where I felt that the prequel status was a real impediment.  Yes, it was fun to see Gael but I'm not sure it added anything to our sum knowledge of his character, Gus's character or the universe.

It may not have said much about Gale but I do think the whole sequence told a tale about how Gus set his plan into motion.  The event involving Nacho led Juan Bolsa (or was it Don Eladio?) to tell Gus to find a meth producer on the US side of the border---which is exactly what Gus wanted.  Hence the sly smile.  Then we see Gus check in on the person he expects will be in charge of that production--Gale.  We always knew that Gus was supporting Gale's education but in this episode we saw that Gus was playing the long game with him.  He didn't tell Gale this is what he expected from him.  He's slowly reeling him in. Knowing Gus is a master at working people isn't a new revelation but it is fun to see how it manifests itself.

[Pike Ludwell]

The "hip" thing to assert is BCS should completely stand on its own and any touching on BB should be minimal and done with great care. I grow weary of these people. For Pete's sake, people, the show is a prequel and in showing Jimmy's movement we should of course see lots of references to the things that were also in the BB world.  Unless one dislikes or hasn't watched BB (which I think is the case with some of these people) the origins of the BB universe should be welcome. I loved the whole Gale sequence.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Pat Hoolihan

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It may not have said much about Gale but I do think the whole sequence told a tale about how Gus set his plan into motion.  The event involving Nacho led Juan Bolsa (or was it Don Eladio?) to tell Gus to find a meth producer on the US side of the border---which is exactly what Gus wanted.  Hence the sly smile.  Then we see Gus check in on the person he expects will be in charge of that production--Gale.  We always knew that Gus was supporting Gale's education but in this episode we saw that Gus was playing the long game with him.  He didn't tell Gale this is what he expected from him.  He's slowly reeling him in. Knowing Gus is a master at working people isn't a new revelation but it is fun to see how it manifests itself.

His long game of reeling people in was contrasted last week with his immediate brutal lesson for Nacho with Arturo, continued this week with Nacho getting a taste of the same.  Gus has lots of arrows in his quiver. 

[Clanstarling]

I almost didn't watch Better Call Saul because Saul was, for me, one of the least interesting characters. To borrow a phrase, BCS had me at Tuco in the first episode.

It has become my favorite show, and for me, the known trajectory - that Jimmy would become Saul and that he would become inextricably tied to the drug world - has been an important element to the show. Every good moment, every scene when Jimmy was essentially sweet, was layered with the upcoming tragedy. I didn't watch it to see all the BB characters, but knew that as time went on, we'd see more and more of them - as this is Saul's story. To see it come to its eventual nexus with BB, I believe we need to see how his main connections in BB move in that direction as well. For now it's primarily Mike and Gus. So I expected, even embraced, this. So Gale was a welcome sight - if also touched by tragedy.

But that doesn't mean that I expect everyone to have the same reasons for watching, and the same reactions to the path of the story. That I found the drug business in BB at all interesting was in and of itself astonishing. as previously I hated anything to do with drugs, and almost passed on BB as well because of it. So I can understand why others would be disturbed, because I don't understand why I wasn't (well, it was disturbing, of course - just more interesting than I expected)

Of course, I do believe as we're rapidly moving toward the BB years, tragedy will outweigh comedy and lightness, so it's going to get very dark. But I trust that it will be interesting.

[Tikichick]

On 8/21/2018 at 10:39 AM, shapeshifter said:

Both this week's episode thread and last week's have us obsessing over The Letter—as are reviewers elsewhere. Are we making a bigger deal out of it than intended?

 

No.  That letter looms large in terms of the entire story behind the selection of Saul as the character to build the BB sequel on.  That letter reveals precisely where two journeys began, we simply haven't heard all of it -- yet.

Neither Kim nor Howard would even begin to formulate the thought bubble that would lead to the creation of a forgery for Jimmy.  Howard would never have the temerity to attempt to "speak" to Jimmy with Chuck's voice.  Kim realizes it would be useless to game Jimmy because he of all people would immediately smell a fake.  (Good thing Hector never had a chance to know or recognize this particular skillset in him.)

And as far as the suggestion far upthread that the letter offers Jimmy more money should he cease and desist to remain a McGill,  it threatens the meticulous estate plan Chuck planned so carefully.  I find it impossible that a lawyer as good as he was would ever consider it for a moment, let alone go through with it.   Doing so, particularly with another firm drafting such a "codicil" would open the door for a legal battle.  Chuck would never entrust such an important idea to something so unofficial and flimsy as a letter.  It would even create the potential for Slippin Jimmy to draft an entirely different estate plan with yet another attorney and suggest it negates all previous estate plans because a secret amendment requiring Jimmy to surrender his identity would clearly suggest Chuck was unstable, his instability caused his plans to change with his moods, and that it also would suggest he did not want Howard administering things or being informed of his wishes.   The legal mind of Chuck was never in such a place where he would undertake something in this manner.

[Chaos Theory]

“Blue Sky” tv is easy to watch.  It’s easy to watch a television show when all the main characters are likable.  I find those  shows kinda boring though.  I much prefer shows that delve into the dark underbelly of life.  I really enjoyed BB but was a little apprehensive about BCS not because he wasn’t an interesting character  but that wring prequels is hard but this has been a good one on many fronts and explores many different characters and how they end up in The place they end up by the time BB starts which is why I like seeing characters appear because it is necessary for a prequel.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Tikichick]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:38 PM, peeayebee said:

IMO, yes. I know people like to speculate, look for subtext, and dissect each scene -- I'm not immune -- but until reading about it here, I never considered that the letter wasn't exactly as it was presented to be. Many viewers can't help but try to uncover what's hidden and so sometimes look for something that's not there -- Hey, just like Chuck did when he tore apart his house!

Still, I understand that many people don't think the letter sounds like Chuck or think that Jimmy was too blase when he read the letter. To me, it sounds like Chuck -- For one thing, it's a letter. He didn't tell Jimmy his feelings face to face but had to praise Jimmy in print. Maybe he thought Jimmy would so appreciate these words that he'd want a keepsake. And as for Jimmy's demeanor when reading, he has buried his feelings about Chuck. They were too painful to deal with, and Howard's words gave him the ability to push the feelings way down. He hasn't even cried yet. Howard has cried. Kim has cried. I bet Jimmy cries before the end of the season. Anyway, his was a perfunctory reading because he didn't want to dwell on Chuck's words, whether they were good or bad.

I think the letter is from Chuck, just doubt that we have a reliable narrator fully and correctly informing us about the contents.  Number one reason I believe the letter was authored by Chuck is it mentions mom.  She's somehow a part of what led to Chuck's immense bitterness about Jimmy.

I think Jimmy is hurting terribly about the loss of Chuck, not just in the sense that he's dead, but mourning the relationship Jimmy thought was always there like his touchstone.  Ultimately I think Jimmy follows in Chuck's footsteps in Slippin Jimmy fashion.  His last response to Chuck will seemingly be to kill Jimmy.

[Ottis]

I think Chuck wrote the letter, much earlier, and Kim is crying at what was lost through... she suspects... Jimmy’s actions. She’s crying because she is starting to realize it may have been Jimmy, not Chuck, who killed their relationship. And she is realizing she is stuck. 

Though ... there are some things in that letter that I don't think Chuck ever would have written, and I have trouble believing that Chuck would allow a letter written years ago to remain as the letter that Jimmy would get if Chuck died, given that since that time, things had gone very south.

So now I don't know. If Kim wrote it, she was crying because ... ? Also, I think Jimmy knew it was "fake" as he read it.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ottis

[Ellaria]

21 hours ago, Pat Hoolihan said:

The "hip" thing to assert is BCS should completely stand on its own and any touching on BB should be minimal and done with great care. I grow weary of these people. For Pete's sake, people, the show is a prequel and in showing Jimmy's movement we should of course see lots of references to the things that were also in the BB world.  Unless one dislikes or hasn't watched BB (which I think is the case with some of these people) the origins of the BB universe should be welcome. I loved the whole Gale sequence.

 

I don't know what is considered "hip" when discussing BCS. I do know that there isn't a right or wrong point of view on the appearance of BB characters in BCS. In fact, it is testament to the quality of BCS that viewers may not care about these links back to BB.

For me, this show is much more than a simple prequel. It is a different story about a different man with similar self-destructive personal flaws. Sure, Jimmy eventually ends up in the same world as the characters of BB. And, as the the BCS timeline moves closer to that of BB, it is logical for familiar faces to appear.

As much as I enjoyed seeing poor Gale again, the story didn't require his presence at this point. The world of BCS can stand on its own, thanks to superior acting, writing and direction. I love this show for what it is and not necessarily for what it is leading up to. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[Tikichick]

Taking a step back and looking at things, that room of models for MV expansion shows a depth and timeframe of planning that someone in Kim's position should have long been in the loop about.  The variation and detail in the architectural design behind each model represents a very significant amount of time and money already invested in this strategy for the future.  IRL it would also represent an unrealistic expenditure to pursue such wildly varying architectural designs rather than arriving at a single representative design intended to say MV upon sight that could then be formulaically cranked out once regulatory hurdles have been cleared as they move forward in their conquest.  

Unrealistic idea of wildly different structures aside, a company would not be bringing in an attorney, let alone a solo practitioner, at this nth hour, let alone cold.  It's possible there's much more to MV than meets the eye.  It's possible that's what spooked Kim.

IMO Kim's dawning horror in that room of models was that, after everything that's gone on and everything that was done to "capture" MV, her future looks a lot like her days, and nights, in doc review.    

[Bryce Lynch]

On 8/26/2018 at 3:04 AM, Irlandesa said:

It may not have said much about Gale but I do think the whole sequence told a tale about how Gus set his plan into motion.  The event involving Nacho led Juan Bolsa (or was it Don Eladio?) to tell Gus to find a meth producer on the US side of the border---which is exactly what Gus wanted.  Hence the sly smile.  Then we see Gus check in on the person he expects will be in charge of that production--Gale.  We always knew that Gus was supporting Gale's education but in this episode we saw that Gus was playing the long game with him.  He didn't tell Gale this is what he expected from him.  He's slowly reeling him in. Knowing Gus is a master at working people isn't a new revelation but it is fun to see how it manifests itself.

I think the episode painted a slightly different picture of Gale than we got from BB.  In BB, Gale told Walt that he got into cooking meth because he was tired of all the butt kissing and non-chemistry related stuff that went along with being part of academia, and just wanted to enjoy the "magic" of the lab.  This episode showed Gale to be a bit more enthusiastic about cooking meth, at an earlier age, than his explanation to Walt would suggest.   

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Taking a step back and looking at things, that room of models for MV expansion shows a depth and timeframe of planning that someone in Kim's position should have long been in the loop about.  The variation and detail in the architectural design behind each model represents a very significant amount of time and money already invested in this strategy for the future.  IRL it would also represent an unrealistic expenditure to pursue such wildly varying architectural designs rather than arriving at a single representative design intended to say MV upon sight that could then be formulaically cranked out once regulatory hurdles have been cleared as they move forward in their conquest.  

Unrealistic idea of wildly different structures aside, a company would not be bringing in an attorney, let alone a solo practitioner, at this nth hour, let alone cold.  It's possible there's much more to MV than meets the eye.  It's possible that's what spooked Kim.

IMO Kim's dawning horror in that room of models was that, after everything that's gone on and everything that was done to "capture" MV, her future looks a lot like her days, and nights, in doc review.    

I think it is possible there could be more than meets the eye to MV, but I don't think Kim suspects anything yet.  I think Kim feels overwhelmed by the volume of work, guilty over how she obtained it and what it cost, and personally unsatisfied by the nature of the work.  She has already mocked the significance of helping a small regional bank expand into a medium sized regional bank.  

You make a great point that you would have expected Kim to be in the loop about all the expansion plans.  You also make a good point that, while it pays a lot better, much of the MV work would be drudgery, similar to her doc review purgatory with HHM.   

[Bannon]

59 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think it is possible there could be more than meets the eye to MV, but I don't think Kim suspects anything yet.  I think Kim feels overwhelmed by the volume of work, guilty over how she obtained it and what it cost, and personally unsatisfied by the nature of the work.  She has already mocked the significance of helping a small regional bank expand into a medium sized regional bank.  

You make a great point that you would have expected Kim to be in the loop about all the expansion plans.  You also make a good point that, while it pays a lot better, much of the MV work would be drudgery, similar to her doc review purgatory with HHM.   

People with minimum exposure to legal work do tend to underestimate how much of it is repetitive drudgery, even for upper management. Lawyers score  very poorly in career satisfaction.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Bannon
sheesh, wrote the exact opposite of what I meant!

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Taking a step back and looking at things, that room of models for MV expansion shows a depth and timeframe of planning that someone in Kim's position should have long been in the loop about.  The variation and detail in the architectural design behind each model represents a very significant amount of time and money already invested in this strategy for the future.  IRL it would also represent an unrealistic expenditure to pursue such wildly varying architectural designs rather than arriving at a single representative design intended to say MV upon sight that could then be formulaically cranked out once regulatory hurdles have been cleared as they move forward in their conquest.  

Unrealistic idea of wildly different structures aside, a company would not be bringing in an attorney, let alone a solo practitioner, at this nth hour, let alone cold.  It's possible there's much more to MV than meets the eye.  It's possible that's what spooked Kim.

IMO Kim's dawning horror in that room of models was that, after everything that's gone on and everything that was done to "capture" MV, her future looks a lot like her days, and nights, in doc review.    

Those models filling a whole room looked grandiose.  The fact that she didn't know about any of it doesn't really add up.  It was only a few months ago in show time that Chuck was appearing before the regulatory board for the first expansion into Arizona I think.  And Kim was seeming to reference a single acquisition to Paige in the meeting.  Why wouldn't Paige, who is MV legal counsel, say something?  It's either a lot of grandiosity on Kevin's part or something else is up.  And yes, adding up to boring bureaucratic work that Chuck apparently reveled in but Kim maybe not so much. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Those models filling a whole room looked grandiose.  The fact that she didn't know about any of it doesn't really add up.  It was only a few months ago in show time that Chuck was appearing before the regulatory board for the first expansion into Arizona I think.  And Kim was seeming to reference a single acquisition to Paige in the meeting.  Why wouldn't Paige, who is MV legal counsel, say something?  It's either a lot of grandiosity on Kevin's part or something else is up.  And yes, adding up to boring bureaucratic work that Chuck apparently reveled in but Kim maybe not so much. 

Paige and Kim were working on Utah in episode 307, so Kim knew there was some expansion planned.  I don't think she expected Kevin to expand to so many more states, so quickly, though.  If she were emotionally and physically stronger, I'm thinking she would have been mostly pleased, hired more staff and tackled it.  But, in her current, injured, guilt ridden, emotionally weaker state, I don't think she will be able to handle it.  

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

People with minimum exposure to legal work do tend to underestimate how much of it is repetitive drudgery, even for upper management. Lawyers score  very poorly in career satisfaction.

A single turn of jury duty should suffice to clue most people in regarding the utter tedium that makes up the largest proportion of the practice of law -- including the bulk of what's frequently portrayed as the pinnacle, courtroom litigation -- and including high profile criminal trials that are all over the news and most people would think would be the most riveting with high drama and emotions.   Far from the truth.

Hours, mornings, afternoons or days listening to the splitting of hairs over the minutiae of cell phone tower data, the statistical breakdowns of DNA or the precise body position of an ear or eye witness during x, y and or z moments of the crime will convince you how laughable the completely unexpected smoking gun testimony of TV and movies really is.  As for civil litigation, about 20 minutes in the courtroom will be enough to have most jurors pondering how well they might do at faking a physical ailment sufficient to trigger their being excused from service.

 

As a possible ironic aside, was the car from Nacho's father's shop that was destroyed actually the same type famously used to exonerate Joe Pesce's clients in My Cousin Vinnie?   

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

 

 

As a possible ironic aside, was the car from Nacho's father's shop that was destroyed actually the same type famously used to exonerate Joe Pesce's clients in My Cousin Vinnie?   

Well, some utes definitely live in New Mexico,  so anything's possible!*

 

*hereby submitted as the worst pun ever posted at previously.tv.. Yes, I deserve to be banned......

[Tikichick]

33 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Well, some utes definitely live in New Mexico,  so anything's possible!*

 

*hereby submitted as the worst pun ever posted at previously.tv.. Yes, I deserve to be banned......

I looked it up, the Cousin Vinnie cars were a Skylark and a Tempest.  Not the same as these.  I guess I just expect so many layers out of these writers it wouldn't have surprised me.

*is this the reason behind your username, an innate worthiness of "banning"?  ; )  

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Those models filling a whole room looked grandiose.  The fact that she didn't know about any of it doesn't really add up. . . .It's either a lot of grandiosity on Kevin's part or something else is up. . . .

I've probably been catching too much news lately, but this makes me wonder if there's some Ponzi scheme that Kevin's a part of—a tangled web that could ensnare Kim too. Maybe that's what she was going to investigate at the courthouse.

[bad things are bad]

Quote

Great synopsis. But as a car geek I'm irritated because the car is an Oldsmobile 442, not a Chevrolet Chevelle.

 

Me too! Olds 442 is my husband's dream car. It was tough to see that car get torched, like watching old Dodges buy it on Dukes of Hazzard :)

[CigarDoug]

On 8/24/2018 at 10:38 AM, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, and it doesn't hurt that Mike is one of those people like Willie Nelson who always look like they are the same age as when I first saw them. 

Then you must have missed him in Beverly Hills Cop, "cuz". But in every single show SINCE THEN, he seems to have hit the pause button on aging.

Spoiler

He played Victor Maitlain's bodyguard, who kills Axel Foley's friend at the start of the movie. Axel Foley manages to throw him into a buffet table. I will never forget his face, covered in pie. He really has that "I will kill you slow" look down pat. He also gets shot by cops at the end of the movie.

Edited September 4, 2018 by CigarDoug
Explaining who he played in the movie.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 8/21/2018 at 6:46 PM, kieyra said:

My immediate reaction to Kim crying over the letter was that she was crying with relief. Relieved that the letter didn’t say something that would totally destroy Jimmy. And maybe she didn’t realize how afraid she had been until the danger was past; then she broke down.

I felt she was sad that the relationship detailed in the letter had deteriorated so badly. Chuck had once been "proud" of his brother and by the end of his life wanted nothing to do with him, and was moved to destroy his career.  Jimmy had a brother who (claimed to have) cared about him, and not only is he gone, but it got real ugly before he died, and Jimmy put one of the final nails in Chuck's career.

[carrps]

On 8/20/2018 at 7:47 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The tragedy in this ep is that an Oldsmobile 442 (specialized power version of the Cutlass) was sacrificed. 

It was also the subject of an early Blondie song!

On 8/22/2018 at 10:03 AM, Captanne said:

Gale was singing Tom Lehrer's Elements song set to Gilbert and Sullivan (operetta.)  That is Tom Lehrer, a wonderful pianist and comedian.  His music is well worth listening to -- my personal fave was "When I Hold Your Hand in Mind, Dear" (and continues, "I press it to my lips.  I take a healthy bite from ... the dainty fingertips.  My joy would be complete, dear....if you were only here.  Instead I keep your hand, dear....as a lovely souvenir."

Yeah.  Awesome!

He also did a song called "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park."

 

Elements song (set to Gilbert and Sullivan):  

 

 

 

Pigeons:

 

He was also a Harvard (and several other universities) mathematician.

 

On 9/4/2018 at 12:41 PM, CigarDoug said:

Then you must have missed him in Beverly Hills Cop, "cuz". But in every single show SINCE THEN, he seems to have hit the pause button on aging.

  Hide contents

He played Victor Maitlain's bodyguard, who kills Axel Foley's friend at the start of the movie. Axel Foley manages to throw him into a buffet table. I will never forget his face, covered in pie. He really has that "I will kill you slow" look down pat. He also gets shot by cops at the end of the movie.

In Buckaroo Banzai, he was the attendant in the mental hospital killed by Emilio Lizardo. And he had a full head of dark hair, too.

[Captanne]

I missed the thread of conversation here but are we talking about Mike Ehrmentraut?  I've been in love with him since he was Vinnie Terranova's FBI handler, Frank McPike, in "Wiseguy".  

[shapeshifter]

If I'm going to be pretending Jimmy looks like 1980s Odenkirk:

then I might as well picture Mike from the 80s too, right?

16 hours ago, Captanne said:

I missed the thread of conversation here but are we talking about Mike Ehrmentraut?  I've been in love with him since he was Vinnie Terranova's FBI handler, Frank McPike, in "Wiseguy".  

I didn't know he was so svelte!

[Captanne]

The original Wiseguy series was phenomenal and McPike was a huge part of it.  His laconic "been there, done that" (which Erhmentraut also uses) was judiciously interspersed with genuine concern for his agent, Vinnie, who was undercover in the New York mob.  That was all the actor's talent and style -- which hasn't really changed.  He was jaw dropping.  The whole series was.  (See it in the original cut when the finale still had the rights to the Moody Blues' "Nights in White Satin" -- the modern release lost the rights and the show suffers for it.  I had to buy it on DVD to get a good copy.)

Gist:  Vinnie Terranova (Ken Wahl) is in jail on a small crime and is offered a deal by the FBI.  Go undercover in the Sonny Steelgrave (Ray Sharkey, RIP AIDS) organization and help us bring it down and you'll get your record expunged.  Vinnie's FBI handler was Frank McPike (Jonathan Banks).  The original "computer nerd" who was the sort of rolling command post was called Lifeguard and was the first regular character I ever saw in a wheelchair (other than Ironside.)

Trivia:  for those who watch General Hospital, Sonny Corinthos is taken directly from Sonny Steelgrave.  Jason is a sort of Vinnie without the whole betrayal thing.  

 

ETA:  I'm on my way to work this morning and just thought -- I'll check really quick and see if it's out there.....(NB:  No McPike -- this is the Nights in White Satin clip.  Spoiler alert -- it's the end of the plot arc.  Wiseguy was the first primetime show to use the idea of a plot arc.)

Edited September 21, 2018 by Captanne