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Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Legends Of Tomorrow

MarkHB
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This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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Trini

Trini

(edited)

So this further confirms that not only will the crossover story be standalone, but it will be in it's own world/dimension/timeline. If this is an Elseworlds story, they can literally do anything, so that makes speculation that much harder!

I had speculated before that Batwoman might take the place of Batman in whichever universe they set her in; and now that seems more likely.

ETA: And if this is an Elseworlds story, then they can totally kill off whoever -- look out, Flash and Supergirl!

Edited by Trini
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BkWurm1
BkWurm1

Aww crap. I was hoping he'd be bored and have moved away from the crossover by next year.  I really don't like the narrow focus on just the leads.  I was willing to put up with it this year but now I'

Starfish35
Starfish35

I’m dying. 🤣 From Tumblr:

Mellowyellow
Mellowyellow

Ahh good old Stephen and his NOPE face reserved for everyone who isn't EBR. At least he doesn't look like he wants to break Iris's arm there! We had a temp LI in S5 and there was a scene where sh

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Oh man.  An Elseworlds crossover makes me even more disappointed that the Legends cast isn’t involved, or at least some of them.   I mean, I understand the reasons why, but still..... :(

Edited by Starfish35
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

On the one hand, great, this means the crossover won't interfere with any of the show's regular storylines and I can understand why three hours will be enough despite all the new characters coming in. 

On the other hand, I honestly don't know how I feel about Elseworlds even though I expected it? Which is strange because I was kind of intrigued by the idea when I first started suspecting that would be it.

But I will say I'm excited about LaMonica Garrett because he played the only character I liked on Designated Survivor when I actually watched it. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

LaMonica Garrett is a 43-year-old American actor. He's 6'2" in height. Here's his IMDB and social media links...

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1206818/
https://twitter.com/lamonicagarrett
https://www.instagram.com/lamonicagarrett/
https://m.facebook.com/lamonicagarrettofficial/

Breaking News: The Monitor Appears in the Arrowverse
By Tim Beedle September 26th, 2018
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/09/26/breaking-news-the-monitor-appears-in-the-arrowverse

Quote

The CW just announced that LaMonica Garrett has been cast in the role of the Monitor in this year’s Arrowverse crossover event, which is growing more and more exciting by the day. The Monitor holds considerable significance among DC comics fans, and is one of the cosmic characters at the heart of the universe-shaping miniseries, CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.
*  *  *
According to the crossover’s official character description, Garrett will be playing Mar Novu, an extraterrestrial being of infinite power known as the Monitor. The Monitor was created by Marv Wolfman and George Pérez as part of DC Comics’ 50th Anniversary.  Mr. Pérez will be illustrating a sketch of the Monitor that plays a prominent role in the crossover’s story.
*  *  *
If Garrett looks familiar to you, there’s good reason. He’s had a long-running career on the small screen, with prominent roles on The Last Ship and Sons of Anarchy. Garrett most recently acting opposite Kiefer Sutherland as his Secret Service officer in Designated Survivor, and will soon be seen alongside Nicolas Cage in the upcoming movie Primal. While Garrett’s a self-professed comic book fan, Mar Novu will actually be his first role in a superhero project.

LaMonica%20Garrett_5babc562490b27.562813 

Edited by tv echo
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Trini

Trini

(edited)

From the DC press release: https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/09/26/breaking-news-the-monitor-appears-in-the-arrowverse

Quote

The CW just announced that LaMonica Garrett has been cast in the role of the Monitor in this year’s Arrowverse crossover event, which is growing more and more exciting by the day. The Monitor holds considerable significance among DC comics fans, and is one of the cosmic characters at the heart of the universe-shaping miniseries, CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.

According to the crossover’s official character description, Garrett will be playing Mar Novu, an extraterrestrial being of infinite power known as the Monitor. The Monitor was created by Marv Wolfman and George Pérez as part of DC Comics’ 50th Anniversary.  Mr. Pérez will be illustrating a sketch of the Monitor that plays a prominent role in the crossover’s story.

More intriguing still, this news was released along with a new image promoting the upcoming crossover, which is officially titled “Elseworlds” (a name that also holds significant meaning with DC fans). Along with providing a great new logo for the crossover, the image also gives us a look at a new Bat-Signal, most likely for Batwoman. It was announced this summer that the trailblazing Gotham City vigilante will be introduced in the crossover, played by actress Ruby Rose.

Jinx!

Edited by Trini
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Proteus

Proteus

10 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Now I'm looking for red skies and this character to be seen lurking in all the other shows (hell, even Legends, even if they're not in the crossover itself....)

The casting call did say he may recur in all four shows.

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Trini

Trini

45 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

On the one hand, great, this means the crossover won't interfere with any of the show's regular storylines and I can understand why three hours will be enough despite all the new characters coming in. 

On the other hand, I honestly don't know how I feel about Elseworlds even though I expected it? Which is strange because I was kind of intrigued by the idea when I first started suspecting that would be it.

Yeah, thinking about it a bit more; not messing with current continuity is good.

On the other hand, does this mean Lois Lane will only be in the crossover? Because I was hoping she would be appearing occasionally on Supergirl too.

And I wanted certain our 'regular' characters (Kara/Iris/James/Clark/Lois) to interact. It would still be nice to see that in the crossover, but that's one thing I wouldn't mind if it's in continuity with Flash/Supergirl.

On the other other hand, if this will be a new universe, then the writers have an opportunity to present our heroes closer to their idealized versions, without much of the baggage from the TV shows.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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51 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Why is the Arrow symbol blue and not green? And is that a "WAYNE" sign on the center building? (Copy and paste this image url address in your browser window -  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoCSa21V4AEbqXa.jpg - and then click on it to enlarge.)

DoCSa21V4AEbqXa.jpg

It looks aquamarine leaning towards blue so I’m guessing it’s just a formatting error. Or maybe the Arrow shade of green blended with the background. 

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MarkHB

MarkHB

58 minutes ago, tv echo said:

And is that a "WAYNE" sign on the center building?

It is indeed... excellent catch!

I am not 100% sure that "Elseworlds" in this context means "imaginary story"; it could just mean, to quote Stephen King, "there are other worlds than these."

Spoiler

Apparently some of the audition sides have the Monitor character referencing many more layers in the Multiverse than the 53 we have known about.... Infinite earths, in fact, not that I expect this crossover to be that Crisis.

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Proteus

Proteus

(edited)
10 minutes ago, Trini said:

Yeah, thinking about it a bit more; not messing with current continuity is good.

On the other hand, does this mean Lois Lane will only be in the crossover? Because I was hoping she would be appearing occasionally on Supergirl too.

And I wanted certain our 'regular' characters (Kara/Iris/James/Clark/Lois) to interact. It would still be nice to see that in the crossover, but that's one thing I wouldn't mind if it's in continuity with Flash/Supergirl.

On the other other hand, if this will be a new universe, then the writers have an opportunity to present our heroes closer to their idealized versions, without much of the baggage from the TV shows.

They can always introduce Earth 38 Lois on a Supergirl episode.

I also wouldnt be surprised if Batwoman of the event isn't the one that gets her own show. We will probably see a fully realized and seasoned Batwoman here while a Batwoman for her own show will be set on one of the other shows Earths at the beginning of her career as a hero.

Edited by Proteus
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Trini

Trini

9 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I also wouldnt be surprised if Batwoman of the event isn't the one that gets her own show. We will probably see a fully realized and seasoned Batwoman here while a Batwoman for her own show will be set on one of the other shows Earths at the beginning of her career as a hero.

That's one way to do it, but I've been assuming that this crossover is at least partially the intro to the Batwoman show. So it'd be odd for them to start over again with the series.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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Since it’s on Elseworlds Earth I’m guessing we’ll see a bloodbath. Supes, Kara, Barry, and Oliver are gonna die. Maybe Lois as well if she has a significant part of the story. I don’t remember who among the other  characters will show up but I’d expect them to die as well. 

I also agree that this is meant to preview a Batwoman series. If it gets picked up then her Earth will be Earth Elseworlds. It would allow the insanity of Gotham and the Bat Rogues to flourish and leave anything on the table. 

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

Honestly, I figure this is about taking our canon characters and introducing them to the Elseworlds notion. Thus DC/CW/WB can have lots of different continuities going on while sort of linking them together too.

Wait for Black Lightning to get a brief cameo as they accidentally jump through his world for a few seconds....

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

If they kill anyone off, I'd expect it to be a copy from some other world or a clear sequence they can undo or wake up from.  I don't think this elseworld is going to be completely unconnected to the existing shows even if it's just the leads from each show that go visit the other worlds.    But all the side characters, yeah, they probably will be dropping like flies.  

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MarkHB

MarkHB

8 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Not familiar with Elseworlds. Will there be doppelgangers again, like in Earth-X? I'm guessing Stephen with what could eventually be a new mask could be a different character from Oliver Queen or the Green Arrow?

In the comics, Elseworlds was the title of DC's line of "special projects," out-of-continuity / "imaginary story" books.  The very first one was Gotham by Gaslight, which told a tale of an 1880's steampunk Batman in London facing down Jack the Ripper.  Red Son, which Supergirl is drawing some inspiration from this year, was another.  They're reviving the concept this year with "DC Black Label."

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The previously spoiled casting calls/auditions for "Lon-El" and "Dr. Elias Kern" might have been for Mar Novu/the Monitor (LaMonica Garrett) and Dr. John Deegan (Jeremy Davies), respectively...

On 9/4/2018 at 8:45 AM, tv echo said:

Audition video for the role of "Lon-el" in the "ARROW/FLASH/SUPERGIRL CROSSOVER" that was posted by actor Ty Olsson (both audition scenes appear to be shared with Superman)...

Ty Olsson “Arrow-Flash-Supergirl”
Posted: Sep. 4, 2018, by Ty Olsson

Audition Scene 1:
Reader (off-screen): "I''m not going to let you destroy the world."
Ty Olsson: "This world's yellow sun gives you great power, Kal-El. But you would need far, far greater to permit me to do anything."
Reader: "The Earth is under my protection."
TO: "As charming a notion as that is, you are mistaken in two key respects. Firstly, I am not the author of this world's demise."
Reader: "You brought the monster -"
TO: "And second, you think this world is special."
Reader: "You can't just allow billions of people to die."
TO: "Your protest shows your lack of perception, Kal-El. For all your super hearing and x-ray vision, you are both deaf and blind. You speak of 'billions' as if that number is meant to awe me. I deal in the infinite, Kal-El."
Reader: "It doesn't matter. Life is life."
TO: "And where is that philosophy when you trample an ant hill? You think this world is one of 52 parallel Earths."
Reader: "Earths I will protect."
TO: "You can't! The number is far, far greater, Kal-El. You speak of billions of people. I speak of trillions of Earths, as many as grains of sand on a beach that stretches to eternity. Do you see? Do you see now how blind you've been? How naive. And in this profound ignorance lies your profound impotence. If you are this world's only protector, then it has my pity."

Audition Scene 2:
TO: "Kal-El. You seem distressed."
Reader (off-screen): "Don't mock me, Lon-el."
TO: "Not my intention. But clearly I'm having difficulty hiding my satisfaction."
Reader: "Fine, you were right. I'm here to negotiate."
TO: "What makes you think there's a bargain to be struck? Your world is already at its end."
Reader: "There's always a way. There's always hope."
TO: "For one whose whole planet was already destroyed, your optimism is impressive. And now, with your adopted planet facing a similar fate, your naivete in the face of the apocalypse is almost admirable."
Reader: "You brought that monster here. You can stop it."
TO: "And what do I get in return? You said you came to negotiate, Kal-El. On Krypton, a bargain is one thing given in exchange for another. Or is it somehow different here? Hmm?"
Reader: "What do you want?"
TO: "Oh, I want many things, Kal-El. Chaos. Entropy. The multi-verse ripped asunder. But really, it's not a matter of what I want, but a matter of what you're prepared to give."

ETA: It appears that this video was made private some time after I watched/transcribed it.

 

 

On 9/7/2018 at 2:58 PM, tv echo said:

Audition video for "Dr. Elias Kern" was posted by actor Jaz Deol (the first audition scene appears to be shared with the character's wife, while the second audition scene appears to be shared with an unidentified villain)...

Dr Elias Kern
Posted: Sep. 3, 2018, by Jaz Deol

Audition Scene 1:
Reader (off-screen): "Elias -"
Jaz Deol: "Just a moment. I need to finish this report."
Reader: "We need to talk."
JD: "Can it wait?"
Reader: "No. I'm leaving you."
JD: "What?"
Reader: "I want a divorce."
JD: "Susan. If this is about -"
Reader: "Please. Don't."
JD: "If this is about -"
Reader: "Don't!"
JD: "If this is about the hours I've been working, I'll scale back. I'll quit. I'll get another job."
Reader: "This isn't about your -"
JD: "I know I have a tendency of burying myself in my work. I"m sorry. I've neglected you and I'm sorry."
Reader: "I don't feel neglected."
JD: "Then why?"
Reader: "You're not a happy man, Elias. You're dark."
JD: "I - I know I've had my issues. I'll go back in therapy. I can't lose you!"
Reader: "I'm here because you already have."
JD: "Susan. Please... I'll change. I'll be better! I'll be whatever you want me to be!"
Reader: "What I want is someone who's not so pathetic."
JD: "Susan. Please. Susan!"

Audition Scene 2:
JD: "This is - what will it do?"
Reader (off-screen): "Whatever you want it to."
JD: "Will it give me my life back?"
Reader: "No. It will give you the means to take back your life."
JD: "I told Susan I'd be anything she'd want me to be. I begged her. I begged."
Reader: "With that, you won't have to beg any more."
JD: "I lowered myself. I debased myself. It was her fault. Susan was a poor influence. Clouded my judgment, made me doubt myself. Acting like that, it was a betrayal. There need to be consequences."
Reader: "I've given you the means to exact whatever vengeance you wish."
JD: "Oh, I'm not talking about vengeance. I'm talking about justice. A balancing of right and wrong. A balancing of scales. A restoration of how things should be. A resetting of the universe on its axis. She will love me. This time, she'll be the one made to beg. This time, everything will be different. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you."

 

Edited by tv echo
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Trini

Trini

Since the setting and all the major players have been announced already (I assume), I'm guessing the next major crossover news will be the Batwoman suit reveal. By this time in 2015, CW had already released the photo of Hawkman and Hawkgirl in full costume.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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45 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Has anyone else worn Batman’s cowl other than Bruce? Crazy thought occurred this morning: What if Oliver gets asked to be Batman in Elseworlds? Might explain the “fitting” for what looks to be a new mask for the crossover per SA’s Instagram photo. 

In the comics Nightwing just finished a short stint in the cowl while Bruce had jury duty, and it's not the first time he's done it.  It's possible that having a non-Bruce Wayne character in the cowl will allow them a loophole on not being allowed to play with the actual character. 

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Trini

Trini

Thomas Wayne was also Batman in the Flashpoint alternate reality.

There are already enough jokes. etc. about Green Arrow being the 'low rent Batman', so I doubt that they'd actually put Oliver Queen in the Batsuit to draw more ire. All of the DCTV shows have changed details - even major details - of characters when adapting them from the comics, but I doubt they let them do that with Batman. For this crossover. (Superman is just about the same level of famous, and the DCTV version kept all the traditional details of his origin, etc.)

From the standpoint of this setting up the Batwoman series, I'm guessing TPTB either can't or don't want to use Batman/Bruce Wayne, so I think that he's not going to exist or be definitively out of the picture. Because it'd be weird to have Gotham City as the setting, but no Batman.

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Proteus

Proteus

24 minutes ago, Trini said:

Thomas Wayne was also Batman in the Flashpoint alternate reality.

There are already enough jokes. etc. about Green Arrow being the 'low rent Batman', so I doubt that they'd actually put Oliver Queen in the Batsuit to draw more ire. All of the DCTV shows have changed details - even major details - of characters when adapting them from the comics, but I doubt they let them do that with Batman. For this crossover. (Superman is just about the same level of famous, and the DCTV version kept all the traditional details of his origin, etc.)

From the standpoint of this setting up the Batwoman series, I'm guessing TPTB either can't or don't want to use Batman/Bruce Wayne, so I think that he's not going to exist or be definitively out of the picture. Because it'd be weird to have Gotham City as the setting, but no Batman.

I don't think that's the case necessarily. I think Batman will exist. He will just be missing or gone in the Batwoman show if it happens. That's what happens in the Batwoman comics. I think we will definitely get Wayne/Batman mentions. I wouldn't be surprised in a season 2 of Batwoman if they get the rights to actually cast & bring in Batman. That's what happened with Supergirl eventually being allowed to use Superman.

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Trini

Trini

3 hours ago, Proteus said:

I wouldn't be surprised in a season 2 of Batwoman if they get the rights to actually cast & bring in Batman. That's what happened with Supergirl eventually being allowed to use Superman.

Gotham would be off the air by then, so I could see that happening.

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MarkHB

MarkHB

One more alt-Batman: in the Knightfall storyline, Jean-Paul Valley aka Azrael aka AzBats took over as Batman after Bane broke Bruce's back.

ITA with an eventual Batman cameo being a possibility after Gotham leaves the air, assuming Batwoman actually gets picked up as a series.

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Guest

Guest

Is this just sounding kinda like what they've done previously? We've already had alien delusional worlds and doppelgängers from another earth. Not quite sure how this would be any different?

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

On 9/30/2018 at 5:50 PM, SmallScreenDiva said:

Has anyone else worn Batman’s cowl other than Bruce? Crazy thought occurred this morning: What if Oliver gets asked to be Batman in Elseworlds? Might explain the “fitting” for what looks to be a new mask for the crossover per SA’s Instagram photo. 

Oliver dressing up as Batman for some reason is exactly where my mind went when I read this tweet.

 

On 9/30/2018 at 8:20 PM, Trini said:

Thomas Wayne was also Batman in the Flashpoint alternate reality.

There are already enough jokes. etc. about Green Arrow being the 'low rent Batman', so I doubt that they'd actually put Oliver Queen in the Batsuit to draw more ire. All of the DCTV shows have changed details - even major details - of characters when adapting them from the comics, but I doubt they let them do that with Batman. For this crossover. (Superman is just about the same level of famous, and the DCTV version kept all the traditional details of his origin, etc.)

From the standpoint of this setting up the Batwoman series, I'm guessing TPTB either can't or don't want to use Batman/Bruce Wayne, so I think that he's not going to exist or be definitively out of the picture. Because it'd be weird to have Gotham City as the setting, but no Batman.

1

And my thought is that we are long past worrying about our Arrow being compared to a knockoff Batman.  I can see them leaning into it instead.  Being an elseworld situation seems exactly the kind of situation where they'd be allowed to blur the lines.  To be clear I think he'd just be dressing up, not that in some elseworld he was Batman.  IF they went that way of him playing another character or thinking he was some other character, then I don't think they'd use Batman's identity, but still wouldn't rule out a total knockoff look-alike version, like an owlman or something.  

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Guest

Guest

21 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Oliver dressing up as Batman for some reason is exactly where my mind went when I read this tweet.

 

And my thought is that we are long past worrying about our Arrow being compared to a knockoff Batman.  I can see them leaning into it instead.  Being an elseworld situation seems exactly the kind of situation where they'd be allowed to blur the lines.  To be clear I think he'd just be dressing up, not that in some elseworld he was Batman.  IF they went that way of him playing another character or thinking he was some other character, then I don't think they'd use Batman's identity, but still wouldn't rule out a total knockoff look-alike version, like an owlman or something.  

SA just posted this:

Some of the guesses included classic GA outfit, Mr Freeze, and Batman. It's possible he's lying though. He does that. Haha.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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I agree that Arrow stopped worrying about everyone commenting on it being a Batman ripoff when they brought on Ra's in season 3.  I think they're embracing it because it's one of the things that keeps people talking about the show (though I still like imagining Marc G watching Gotham and weeping every time they play with a Bat character).

If Oliver does wear the cowl, and the crossover is in continuity, then my guess is that Oliver is the one who travels to Elseworlds Earth.  He may bring Kara and Barry along if he doesn't have another way to get there (he either travels there on his own or he's taken), or he encounters their Elseworlds doppelgangers (my personal preference).  What I can't figure out is Kate's role in this since Oliver's important to bringing her into the Arrowverse.  That implies that there's a level of trust so, unless they make Kate and Elseworlds Oliver BFF (which they might), they'll need to sell us on the relationship immediately.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

 It's possible he's lying though. He does that. Haha.

Amell lies all the time.  We need to get to Ramsay to get the truth.  I'd volunteer (those arms, yum) but I'm not going to a con between now and the crossover.

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Trini

Trini

26 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:
Oliver dressing up as Batman for some reason is exactly where my mind went when I read this tweet.

Ugh - I hope not. Just let Green Arrow be Green Arrow.

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Guest

Guest

My original guess was SA was either Mr Freeze (because they cast his wife) or the classic comic GA with the ugly tights etc...but with the latter I'm not sure how that's really different or something SA never would have imagined.

So basically, I have no idea. LMAO.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

55 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

My original guess was SA was either Mr Freeze (because they cast his wife) or the classic comic GA with the ugly tights etc...but with the latter I'm not sure how that's really different or something SA never would have imagined.

So basically, I have no idea. LMAO.

They said in the release with the info about Cass that Mr. Freeze wasn't appearing so I think we can cross that off the list at least.  Though it wouldn't surprise me if her character flirted with him at some point.  

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Guest

Guest

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

They said in the release with the info about Cass that Mr. Freeze wasn't appearing so I think we can cross that off the list at least.  Though it wouldn't surprise me if her character flirted with him at some point.  

I just assumed that was a lie to play into the surprise of who he’s playing. 

Really though, I have no idea. It all sounds pretty yikes to me tbh. ??

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

5 hours ago, shantown said:

I know nothing about comic history or Elseworlds but I would love if the identity swap was actually Oliver being The Flash, Barry being Super(girl)man, and Kara being Green Arrow.

Stephen mentioned something about getting powers around the time of the crossover announcement at the up fronts. So, my guess is that it's someone with powers, and my guess is also that he'll wind up being Flash.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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I doubt we’ll see titles getting switched. More likely they’ll give Green Arrow powers. That falls in line with Elseworlds typical MO of putting well known characters in different settings (like Victorian Batman in Gaslight and Soviet Superman in Red Son). 

I’d forgotten about Amell hinting at powers. Now I don’t have a clue. 

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I wouldn't call this a spoiler exactly but it gives room to speculate:

This is in reference to this earlier tweet:

So someone who has been on Arrow is suiting up for the first time and I'm assuming it's for the crossover. Aaaaand go! ??

Edited by Guest
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MarkHB
Message added by MarkHB

This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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