Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[FurryFury]

I'm extremely bitter because after watching this last episode, I've realized that Malcolm is now officially the Regina Mills of Arrow. We're never going to get rid of him now, are we? And he's never ever going to pay what he's done. :(

No, he's nowhere that bad. At least the whole cast isn't beside themselves with trying to get him a happy ending...

 

I can buy her redemption arc

 

Good for you, then, I can barely watch the show (and have in fact missed 2 of the last 3 episodes) because everything being about her makes me want to vomit. Of course, she's just a symptom - this show has jumped the shark so many times I've lost count. It's basically Glee seasons 4-5 or Teen Wolf season 4. Barely making any sense. Arrow may be bad right now, but it's nowhere near OUAT level.

[Happy Harpy]

I needed to say that I'm extremely bitter with what they did to Quentin Lance.

 

By reverting him without reason to his Javert persona, they killed him as surely as they did Moira and Sara. He was assassinated for plot-driven reasons that don't even make sense.

 

I miss Quentin and Sara, and Quentin and Felicity, and Quentin who wasn't fond of vigilantism but worked with the Arrow in the S1 finale because it was the right thing to do in order to save people. I miss Quentin and Roy. I miss Quentin who knew that Oliver was the Arrow, but pretended not to know -I cry foul and retcon here.

 

Moira is dead, Quentin is ruined, Walter who?, Slade's storyline was botched, and don't get me started with Malcolm...and yet, those characters were awesome and integral to the show, and they deserve(d) better, since they could have/could still contribute to make it as great as it was when they were part of it and written correctly. The show's track record isn't good either with characters above 40, imo. Donna Smoak better not be the next stop of that trainwreck.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[kismet]

Totally agre Happy Harpy! If they had written a better & menancing villian they would not have had to make QL suffer such a character assault for plot. Im bitter that they wrote such a weak & convoluted (yet dumb) villain arc this season. The actor playing Ras does not bother me that much, because I get his been around for ages chill no need to rush persona. But his motivations, I have no idea about. Why does he care so much about OQ? He could have cared less about Sara in one episdode, but then wanted to wage war the next. It made no sense. And the everchanging prophecy... No wonder OQ doesn't know his identity yet, his destiny changes every episode. I'd be getting some ID whiplash as well.

 

EvilOliver

is a cool idea, but we did not need 20 episodes of dumb plot arc to get us there. It just feels like they really dropped the ball on the villain arc this year. They need to make the arcs either shorter or tighter. An all season arc only works if you actually write it as a full arc. This season has seen them just repeat the same beats or steal from previous season plots. Sara died for no reason. Malcolm became neither redeemed or evil. Ras is still chilling in his hot tub. Don't blink or you'll probably miss

EvilOliver

. So really I don't understand why QL, LL & TA had to suffer the lying/betraying/vendetta arc - it was illogical & hurt the characters & their narratives. QL never should have been put in the villain arc, when he is not a villain (thats what you have MM & Ras for).

[tennisgurl]

 

I needed to say that I'm extremely bitter with what they did to Quentin Lance.

I totally agree with everything you said. I am bitter about a lot of things they have done this season, but I HATE what they did to Quentin. First, shutting him off the show, and having everyone lie to him about the death of his own daughter, then turning him into an angry, bitter idiot, messing up his character, for now reason. Quentin was one of my favorite characters, now whenever I see him, I get sad. 

 

Speaking of Quentin, what is up with people in this show and their fetish for keeping unnecessary secrets? WHY would they not tell Thea that Roy was alive for weeks! Roy even told them to tell Thea! Why let the poor girl think that her brother was lost to her, AND her boyfriend was dead? WHY?!?! 

Edited April 30, 2015 by tennisgurl

[fantique]

Do better, show. Even the characters are over this lame drama. Where is Greg Berlanti? We're stuck with Trollenheim! (:/)

Edited April 30, 2015 by fantique

[wingster55]

You know what makes me bitter? The fact that Nyssa continually loses to Oliver in fights. Shouldn't Ra's daughter (who in all likelihood has been training far longer) be able to best him...at least once? (I say once because I do realize it IS his show...but still)

[calliope1975]

You know what makes me bitter? The fact that Nyssa continually loses to Oliver in fights. Shouldn't Ra's daughter (who in all likelihood has been training far longer) be able to best him...at least once? (I say once because I do realize it IS his show...but still)

 

I totally agree. Oliver has always been able to best members of the LOA, and it makes no sense to me. Yes, eventually, he should get a win in there, but as is, he should be having a much harder time fighting.

[lemotomato]

Laurel managed to hold off two LoA members while Lyla got taken down by one. I don't think the show is working with earth logic here.

[looptab]

Laurel managed to hold off two LoA members while Lyla got taken down by one. I don't think the show is working with earth logic here.

This. My sole reaction during that scene was WTF? And not of the good kind. The "I just can't with this anymore" kind.

[Password]

And she couldn't take down a thug earlier in the episode.

Mhmmmmmm.

[olicityfan25]

Yup that's why I can never take the character seriously. They don't seem to, so why should I?

[NumberCruncher]

I'm bitter that the showrunners have made me so tired this season and hoping for it to end soon.  I'm tired of all the never-ending angst.  I'm tired of all the convoluted storylines and bending of characters simply to rip off comic book plots.  I'm tired of seeing Oliver constantly crapped on.  I'm tired of seeing Felicity crying all the time. I'm tired of Diggle being underused. I'm tired of seeing characters suddenly regress from all of the growth they've experienced (Quentin, Oliver, etc.) just to create drama.  Aside from the few bright spots here and there, this season has not been very fun to watch.  Were it not for my attachment to the characters I would have given up after the mid-season finale.  I just need S3 to end on a good note because I don't know if I have the patience for more of this in S4.

[Sakura12]

Arrow is just following DC"s stable, doom and gloom followed by more doom and gloom, then the hero wins in the end.

 

"um...yay?" And I'm just thankful that it's over. 

[KirkB]

Oliver beating random LoA members is fine, to me. The average League mooks seem to be just cannon fodder. People with any degree of combat training can handle them, their thing lies in stealth and surprise more than flat out fighting. Diggle or even Quentin killing one or two is fine, someone like Oliver can handle several of them. But I agree that if he could beat Nyssa, someone who seems to have spent most of her entire damn life fighting and training, it should be a lot harder. At least Ra's kicked his ass, though I imagine he too will lose to Oliver in the end. 

 

On the other hand, I don't understand how Laurel lasts more than a few seconds against two of them. One on one, maybe her training with Nyssa has given her some kind of insight. And as many of you have pointed out, it's particularly ridiculous when she couldn't handle a regular old mugger earlier in the same damn episode.

Edited April 30, 2015 by KirkB

[Happy Harpy]

Here's how I imagine it happened:

 

Writer's room. Crack pipe being passed around.

Writer 1: "Hey, what about Oliver and Nyssa? Like, they could marry and all."

Voice of Reason Writer: "But she's a lesbian."

The whole writing team but VoRW, high-fiving : "Yeah, hawwt!"

Voice of Reason Writer: "But she was in a relationship with Sara! And Sara had a relationship with Oliver!"

Writer 2: "Whoah, it's a bit like sister-swapping! Sharing the same woman, so cool, dude!"

The whole writing team but VoRW, high-fiving: "Yeah, hawwt!"

 

Back in S1-2, I used to defend this show when it was accused of misogyny and unability to write well for women. Two fridging (Shado and Sara) two agencies removed (Thea with Malcolm, Felicity OOC-propping Ray YMMV) and now a lesbian character having to marry a straight man

and the PR unclear about the fact that it could be a bona fide "marriage"

later, I can't anymore.

You know what? If not for the track record, maybe, maybe, I could think it was a mere misstep. I could believe that it wasn't done for shock value, or to allow the least savory part of the audience to rejoice at the idea of a strong woman being married against her will, with bonus points for the woman being a lesbian.

 

I can't believe it. I don't watch, and yet I'm still bitter.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[strikera0]

You know what makes me bitter? The fact that Nyssa continually loses to Oliver in fights. Shouldn't Ra's daughter (who in all likelihood has been training far longer) be able to best him...at least once? (I say once because I do realize it IS his show...but still)

 

That bothers me, too. I have also noticed that Oliver beats Nyssa more easily from fight to fight. Like, the first time they fought each other in HTTD, we got a really long and exciting fight sequence and now in this week's episode, Oliver took her down in less than thirty seconds. It's absolutely ridiculous and I am getting sick of it.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

A TV show should through the course of its life provide a narrative which makes sense for an episode in season 1 and season 3. It doesn't have to be predictable but everything shouldn't come out of left field either - unless it is a drug-induced trip. It is a fine line to walk to be consistent and unpredictable.

A show's shocking reveal shouldn't be the cconvoluted mess of 20 episodes suddenly makes sense with a final three episodes. An audience shouldn't wonder as to the purpose of episode 3-19.

As much as I love TA, Arrow would benefit from a 12 episode season. They need to trim the fat and tell a cohesive story. They are writing for moments and not a 23 episode season. I haven't enjoyed Arrow since early s2.

[Morena]

As much as I love TA, Arrow would benefit from a 12 episode season. They need to trim the fat and tell a cohesive story. They are writing for moments and not a 23 episode season. I haven't enjoyed Arrow since early s2.

or 2 story arcs as  OUAT

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

or 2 story arcs as OUAT

Good call! Two separate and uninterrupted 10/11 episode segments? I might be tempted to stick around. A three and four week break with depressing spoilers makes it easy to forget about Arrow.

[statsgirl]

This is an interesting thought from JustAboutWrite:  I finally figured out my problem with this episode/this season of #Arrow in general.

 

[MostlyC]

Fellow Bitterness-ers!

 

A gentle reminder that THIS IS A SPOILER FREE THREAD.   We are not allowed to be bitter about an episode that has NOT YET AIRED.

 

Ahem.

 

If you wish to talk about spoilers, there is the oh-so-loquacious Spoiler Thread discussion. 

 

Trust me, the spoiler-disccusion-folk talk a green streak at the speed of an arrow.

 

Pray continue (in the right thread).

[pootlus]

I think the thing I'm most bitter about is that I'm not really bitter any more.  Arrow was good, now it's not, I've moved on.  There are other shows (cough, Daredevil) that are new and exciting and good and which hold my attention.  Even the long-awaited Olicity sex couldn't inspire me to watch.  The show would basically have to be completely revamped at this stage - ditching the horrible relationship angst, some of the darkness, and Buckles and her ridiculous, cringe-worthy costume - to pull me back in.  They'd also have to fire a bunch of the writers - I caught some clips of the recent episodes on Youtube and the first thing that struck me was "Was the writing always this shitty or did I just not notice because I was enjoying the show?".

[chaos is welcome]

Not so much bitter (like pootlus I am mostly past bitter) as disappointed that w 2 eps to go, we have only had 1 shirtless oliver training scene, and zero salmon ladder/oliver scenes....but we had pretty much everyone ELSE on the salmon ladder. This is what we liked about you show. Along with og TA which you also like to forget.

Edited May 4, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[apinknightmare]

I've missed the shirtless Oliver scenes too, but I can't really blame the show for that since SA asked for shirtless scenes to be relevant to the plot so he doesn't have to spend so much time preparing for them (both by working out AND by sitting in the makeup chair getting his scars applied). 

 

Clearly his idea of plot relevant and mine are INCREDIBLY DIFFERENT.

Edited May 4, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

At least make up for the lack of SA shirtlessness with some of the other gentlemen on the show. Digg, Roy? Come on!

[Genki]

I think it is the everyone else but SA doing the Salmon Ladder that I found annoying about this season.

Plus

Forcing The Atom Show and the inferior BC show, plus stupid reasons for keeping MM around, killing off Sara and "killing" off Oliver TWICE.

Mostly I've accepted the plot induce stupidity, but not the lack of Oliver on the Salmon ladder.

[MostlyC]

I, too, am bitter about the lack of Shirtless Oliver (and getting Dig and Ray shirtless is an inspired idea).  And...Salmon Ladder, how I miss thee.

[catrox14]

I have to say... I don't understand why the showrunners are showing such disrespect to the audience. I mean we have put up with A LOT from this show lately but they put Sally in the corner and that just cannot stand.  I mean where is she?

[apinknightmare]

She's dead. That's why Felicity was crying in the foundry at the end of the last ep!

 

RIP Sally. We hardly knew ye.

Edited May 4, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

She's dead. That's why Felicity was crying in the foundry at the end of the last ep!

 

RIP Sally. We hardly knew ye.

 

 

No rungs lying about=no death! I refuse to accept this without proof.

[thuganomics85]

I know this is a small thing in the grand scheme of things, but I'm honestly laughing over how pathetic the League of Assassins are here.  They were built up as the ultimate threat, but outside of Maseo and Nyssa (and even they've suffered plenty of losses to say the least), they have to be some of the biggest pushovers ever.  I'm reaching way back into my childhood, but all League fight scenes come off like Power Ranger episodes, when they easily fight off the useless Puttys.  Just one punch, anywhere in the body, and they are down for the count.

 

Hell, I don't even think you need real fighting skills to beat them at this point.  I would put a dozen of this show's LOA against Felicity and The Flash's Cisco and Caitlin in a cage match, and I would still beat on the tech trio to not only win, but barely get a scratch. Don't even get me started into a villain vs. villain scenario.  Grodd would decimate the entire League in less then a minute... not even using his telepathic abilities.

[Duke Silver]

This show ___________ .

[moviewhore]

I want Oliver Queen to just fuck off and die now.

 

Because he, as Oliver, took Dig's wife and terrorized her.  Because, as Oliver, he gassed his friends, including Felicity-who he "loves"-while going along and marrying Nyssa.  Because he didn't clue in the team about his plan for more secrets and lies.  Because he is still going along with being Ra for reasons I can't understand anymore.  Just knowing he was bullshitting and working with Malcolm all this time, a man he should cock punch for mindraping his sister and says he "hates" but told him about his grand scheme.  Not Diggie, not Felicity, not Laurel, no one.  Seriously that makes Ollie a true, fucked up psychopath and someone who shit on his friends that would die for him in a second.  Quentin was right about him being a villain after all.

 

Oh, and I'm bitter over Roy leaving Thea and what a waste of a reunion.  He was like "you're running away," and then does the same thing to her next day.  What the fuck? 

 

Next Wed is it for me.  I'm out for season 4.  I hate Ollie too much to continue.

[chaos is welcome]

This post from the social media thread from Gug's tumblr

 

 

lovelyair asked:
Marc! Amazing show overall. I've been an avid TV watcher for many a moon, and I think you guys are doing a great job! Given that, I was wondering if you could answer me this: What is one thing you think you guys did great with this season on Arrow? What is one thing you regret doing? Again, great job man, go Arrow! Go Oliver Queen! Go Olicity! Thank you!
– Making Oliver “Al Sah-him”
– Not spending enough time with Oliver as “Al Sah-him”

Makes me exceedingly bitter.  Cause more Alsahim then we got? no. 

[Genki]

This post from the social media thread from Gug's tumblr

Makes me exceedingly bitter.  Cause more Alsahim then we got? no. 

 

Actually this makes me bitter because I agree they should have had more Al-Sah-him this season or at least started the storyline earlier.

 

I've been think about this fair bit how could this season been better while still hitting the same stupid plot points.

 

The first thing would have been to have the Al Sah-him recruitment storyline follow on directly from "The Fall". If Oliver had ended up with the LOA after surviving the fall and then started getting the hard sell from Ra's about being the next Demon's Head we could have Nyssa leave for Starling sooner, and maybe start training Laurel earlier (before she goes out as the SWF Canary and having Team Arrow prop her up). We could have have more French fry/shake scene and maybe Laurel could be more bearable. Actually I would prefer if Nyssa became the Canary and Laurel her support. Oliver could recover and start training with the League and maybe they start the brain washing process on him.

 

If they needed Raylicity, that should have occurred before Oliver "died" and Felicity should have broken up with Ray either when she thinks Oliver is dead or when he returns alive. The Jell-O scene could have been while Oliver was away with the League and then when he returns, Felicity breaks up with Ray. 

 

Oliver could come back to think about Ra's Offer and "happy" reunion style episode like 3.16, and then Ra's forcing Oliver's hand could start, or they could have Oliver come back to Starling as AL-Sah-him pretending to be Oliver, to bring Nyssa back. Betrayal!! dun dun dun!!

 

Thea could have found out about Oliver while he was "Dead"... and I would prefer if she wasn't Damseled but Ra's could have threatened her to keep Oliver in-line. Or they could keep the LP resurrection plot. 

 

More importantly they could have had Oliver relying on Malcolm less.

 

I'm bitter because there were still ways to turn this season around, but after the last episode, I don't think they actually will.

[Chaser]

I'm going to start this by saying it is not a personal attack on anyone here at all, its just a general frustration I have with some of the comments I see about Felicity. I keep seeing people say that they are done with Felicity, or they are over her completely because she used to be this cool fantastic character and now she is all about the man in her life and she is wimpy and clingy. I get that. I understand that and I really really agree that there have been moments were I don't like how they are writing Felicity. 

 

I LOVE that they made Felicity VP. I HATE that all we saw her do was follow Ray around or work on Ray's ATOM suit. 

 

I LOVE that she didn't stop her life when Oliver stopped them. I HATE that every move with Ray was prompted by a move by Oliver.

 

I LOVE that she defended Oliver to Ray. I HATE that she went back to 'great-guy' Ray Palmer after what he did in that episode.

 

I HATE that her storyline was about making Ray a Hero. Because at the end of the day that's what it was about. The CW wanted another Spin-Off so that was Felicity's role this season. Get Ray to that Spin-Off. It was not about Her.

 

So I get the criticism. I agree with the criticism. But it frustrates me to no end that they are clearly writing her this way for Ray, and she is the one people are done with. I want people to get mad that they made her this way because she deserves better then this, she earned better than this. But I want the blame to go to where it should. The Writers. For taking a strong, smart, fantastically cool female character and turning her into a prop for their Boy Toy of the Season. 

 

As for her interactions with Oliver? She has never blindly followed him. She has always questioned him if she felt she should. This is not new behavior. She is not nagging him. Oliver paired up with the MALCOLM FREAKIN' MERYLN. He mind-raped Thea. He killed Sara. He set Oliver up for Death. She had a problem with that and she let him know. That is not being 'wimpy' or 'whiny' or a 'doormat' for him. That is nothing different from anything she would have done in previous seasons. And when he ALLOWED her to be there for him and be his friend, she was there for him. She wasn't dangling maybes at him or stringing him along. She didn't abandon him or the Team.

 

Just UGH

 

Okay Rant Over.

 

And again I don't mean this to be directed at anyone. If you feel it is, I'm Sorry. I respect your opinion, I just disagree with it. 

Edited May 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Menrva]

Thank you for this!!! This is everything I've been feeling. I cannot agree more.

[Angel12d]

Just UGH

 

Okay Rant Over.

 

And again I don't mean this to be directed at anyone. If you feel it is, I'm Sorry. I respect your opinion, I just disagree with it. 

 

I want to kiss you on the mouth.

 

Thumbs up, claps, cheers, yes. Thank you for this post.

[dtissagirl]

I'm insanely bitter that they made Felicity a guest star in Palmer's story, and on top of it, they made super duper sure he came out of the easiest hero's journey arc EVER as the bigger man, smelling like roses, because they desperately need the audience to like him for the spinoff.

Felicity was thrown into the wolves because they thought she was bulletproof, Guggenheim even said so. I legit couldn't care less what people on the internets think of Felicity. People can think whatever they want. Plus, I know individual responses mean nothing, really. But I do resent the writers for thinking Felicity WAS impervious to criticism in the first place, because that was what gave them an out to NOT give her the reins of the story arc. If they assume she's forever beloved, they don't have to push for her own stories, it's okay to leave her forever in second banana love interest limbo. Ugh.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm going to start this by saying it is not a personal attack on anyone here at all, its just a general frustration I have with some of the comments I see about Felicity. I keep seeing people say that they are done with Felicity, or they are over her completely because she used to be this cool fantastic character and now she is all about the man in her life and she is wimpy and clingy. I get that. I understand that and I really really agree that there have been moments were I don't like how they are writing Felicity

If it helps at all, I loathe Ray and always will.  I won't watch the spinoff, even with Sara, because of him.  However, I would add that the writing pretty much is the character, so when they write her as making all these questionable choices (clinginess, constant crying, etc.), that IS the character now.  They might do better in S4, and for most people that would be fine, but I have a pretty good memory, unfortunately.  Overall, though, she's still better than 80% of the characters on tv, which is not so bad.

[Chaser]

If it helps at all, I loathe Ray and always will.  I won't watch the spinoff, even with Sara, because of him.  However, I would add that the writing pretty much is the character, so when they write her as making all these questionable choices (clinginess, constant crying, etc.), that IS the character now.  They might do better in S4, and for most people that would be fine, but I have a pretty good memory, unfortunately.  Overall, though, she's still better than 80% of the characters on tv, which is not so bad.

I understand that that is the character they are writing. I'm just tried of people not acknowledging why they are writing her that way. I will freely admit I'm bias with Felicity. She is my ride-or-die character on Arrow. It just frustrates me that fans wrote her off because of how they are writing her for a man. I want people to be offended for her and angry on her behalf. Because its insulting. 

 

If the character is ruined for you then I'm sorry. I still have faith they can get back to the Felicity. 

[Carrie Ann]

From the episode thread:

 

I don't think it's specifically Moira, although I do miss her a lot. I think part of what's wrong with this season is Oliver has nothing at all going on apart from his mission. The only thing Felicity's got going on outside of it is working with/dating Ray, but he has a mission of his own. Thea's tied up with Malcolm, who's tied in with Ra's, who is Oliver's new mission, and Diggle's got Lyla on occasion and for one episode, the Suicide Squad. Laurel's got her training and now she's in on the mission too. Quentin's chasing after Oliver. 

 

There's no home life for any of these people, there's nothing outside and unrelated to the big bads and crime fighting. I want to see parties and board meetings and galas and all the stuff we saw in the first two seasons that reminded us that these people are PEOPLE too. I really hope they get back to some of that. 

 

Yeah, they need lives so that there is a purpose to all of their fighting. This season, Diggle was the only person who had that. Felicity worked as an EA--I mean a VP--for her boyfriend, though we almost never saw her working on anything that wasn't the ATOM suit, at a company that apparently had no other employees. Seriously, the last time I remember seeing anyone else at PT was maybe in 307 when they announced the name change?

 

But anyway, I kinda don't think it's a coincidence that post-315, we got:

• basically our only significant Dig/Felicity scenes
• a dinner scene at the Diggles'
• a wedding
• and rather abruptly in 316, Oliver and Felicity once again interacting as though they liked each other

 

I think it's silly to always cry 'network interference,' but honestly it did feel like the network intervened a bit. Or else the EPs finally paid attention to the feedback they were receiving and incorporated those elements again, because they were sorely lacking for the first 2/3 of the season. I know this is the bitterness thread (and best believe that I am hella bitter about this mess of a season), but it does give me a bit of hope that they've taken it on the chin for some of their choices, and hopefully we'll see improvements in some areas next season.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[AyChihuahua]

 

I understand that that is the character they are writing. I'm just tried of people not acknowledging why they are writing her that way. I will freely admit I'm bias with Felicity. She is my ride-or-die character on Arrow. It just frustrates me that fans wrote her off because of how they are writing her for a man. I want people to be offended for her and angry on her behalf. Because its insulting.

Like I said, she's better than 80% of other characters on tv.  I keep thinking I'm done with her, but then some jerkwad on tvline or whatever attacks her, and I end up defending her.  But, it's not like she's a real person who has an existence outside the show, so of course it's the writing.  I guess I don't see what else it could be.  I mean, I don't think it's the actress's fault, if that's what you mean.  I'm assuming she's being directed to do the crying/cry-voice, etc.  But basically, it's the writing.

Edited May 9, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Chaser]

Like I said, she's better than 80% of other characters on tv.  I keep thinking I'm done with her, but then some jerkwad on tvline or whatever attacks her, and I end up defending her.  But, it's not like she's a real person who has an existence outside the show, so of course it's the writing.  I guess I don't see what else it could be.  I mean, I don't think it's the actress's fault, if that's what you mean.  I'm assuming she's being directed to do the crying/cry-voice, etc.  But basically, it's the writing.

I'm probably not going to explain this well. I want the motivation behind the writing to be acknowledged. MG insists that she is more assertive then ever and I agree when it comes to Oliver that that is true. However, it is complete and utter BS when it comes to Ray. I want that MG to admit that they wrote Felicity and Ray with the intention of selling Ray to he audience for his own show. They thought they had their cake and could eat it too. Felicity could get a story away from Oliver and Ray could be a shoe in for the audience. But the second thing was more important than the first. If it wasn't, Felicity would have built that suit. Felicity would have had someone to talk too. Felicity would save Ray. It's a pipe dream. MG would never say that, but it would be nice if all these former Felicity fans would. MG needs to be called out on it.

 

Choosing to go for the tears is probably both direction and EBR. I do hope in the future its more subtle. Love that girl, but its not a strength. I'm hoping experience helps.

 

Like I said, probably not explaining it well. Thanks for defending her by the way.

 

EDITED TO ADD: This is what happens when I run on no sleep. I'm pretty sure I'm just repeating myself now. LOL

Edited May 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[AyChihuahua]

Guggie will never admit that, because then he'd have to admit that Ray is not likable himself and needed Felicity to prop him.  

 

Get some sleep!

[tarotx]

Having Ray and Felicity away from Oliver hurt both Characters. Felicity was like a recurrent character on both Arrow and Ray's in show spinoff. And the Felicity that was on Arrow had very few bonding moments with Oliver and/or Diggle. It was mostly emotional weariness.

Which is probably a huge reason that is what Some fans are feeling about Felicity.

Drama is tiring. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a Sandra Rhimes show.

Edited May 9, 2015 by tarotx

[AyChihuahua]

Drama is tiring. Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a Sandra Rhimes show.

I LOATHE melodrama.  And stupidity.  So I quit Grey's Anatomy in the first season after that one chick nearly killed the guy who needed the heart transplant, on purpose, to get him moved up the transplant list, then he died anyway, and she was allowed to remain a doctor.  TOTALLY RIDICULOUS.  She'd be lucky not to be in prison IRL.

[millennium]

This post from the social media thread from Gug's tumblr

Makes me exceedingly bitter.  Cause more Alsahim then we got? no. 

 

First, I hate it when ass-kissing comments like the one you quoted above go public.

 

Second, call me naive or maybe old-fashioned, but I watch superhero shows to see superheroes do superheroic things.   Saving lives, fighting villains, rekindling hope in a downtrodden city, stuff like that.   NOT to watch them go "dark" or insane or rogue or whatever.

 

Nor am I looking for a soap opera.   I think turning Felicity into a love interest did a great disservice to both the character and the show.   What was so wrong about Oliver and Felicity simply working together?  Why wasn't that enough?    For years Mulder and Scully worked side by side as equals, complementing each other with their skills and different points of view.   They solved cases together.   They saved each other's lives.   Trust grew between them.   They became each other's best friend.   Sure, there were hints of sexual tension to keep it fun.   The thing is, it worked.  Then, LATER, it turned into something more.   

 

Mulder and Scully are textbook examples of how to keep male/female partnerships on television viable and engaging.   What we've seen on Arrow this season probably belongs in the "How Not to" chapter of that textbook.

 

I think the writers have driven this show up onto the rocks.   It can probably be saved, but not by the same team that gave us this season.   Frankly, I don't think they have the skills to pull it off.

[ruby24]

 

Nor am I looking for a soap opera.   I think turning Felicity into a love interest did a great disservice to both the character and the show.   What was so wrong about Oliver and Felicity simply working together?  Why wasn't that enough? 

Now that I've finally caught up with all the episodes this season, I'm going to have to agree with this. This Felicity/Oliver stuff just doesn't work. She works so great as the sidekick comic relief, and turning her into his love interest really drags the show down a lot. And it takes away from the original working dynamic of the group. Look, I really don't think Stephen Amell has ever had any chemistry with any of the actresses he's been paired with, but putting them together really just sags. She should be her chirpy, funny self and any love interest of Oliver's will inevitably become angsty and melodramatic. Whenever she showed up on The Flash this season I remembered how good she can be.

 

I really hope they end this O/F thing quick next season. It's really brought the show down overall this year, although I think these last few episodes have been okay.

[olicityfan25]

The fact the some of you still think she's only a sidekick, or used for comic relief is doing a disservice to the character.

Plus I just think some people are pissed off because LL is

not the love interest. These shows always have love stories. Some people need to realize that comic books are just a big soap opera all in itself.