S01.E03: Fix

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Camille relives a recent tragedy as she struggles to piece together the murders in Wind Gap. Richard grows frustrated with Chief Vickery’s assumptions regarding potential suspects. A defiant Amma shows off her wild side to Camille, while Adora admonishes Camille for meddling in the investigation and a town in mourning.

 

[Black Knight]

It kind of cracked me up when Adora busted up Camille's interview of Bob Nash. What other reporter in crime fiction has ever had to deal with her own mother getting in the way so much? And on the flip side, in yet another instance of Adora's power in this town, we see that the sheriff will discuss details of the investigation with her. If she ever actually wanted to help Camille instead of hindering her she could actually hook her up with everyone. But she won't.

And Camille, please stop apologizing to Adora. You must know by now that you will never win with her. I get it, it's a pattern she can't break (kind of like her cutting), but it's painful watching her try over and over with Adora.

Why is Ashley with John? She seems status-obsessed and I don't see where he gives her any status - if anything, he hurts her social standing (and did even before his sister was murdered and the town started suspecting him). He's not on the football team, he doesn't have many if any friends, he's not some hunk. She doesn't love him. So what is it?

Amma was awful to Camille, but judging from the way her final flashbacks of Alice immediately followed that, it seemed like Camille saw past Amma's awfulness to the pain that must be driving it.

[Morbs]

I live at home, watch Riverdale, and go to the gym the same time teenagers do, so I may be going through something here, but I think John is cute.

[jenh526]

Maybe Camille's editor had the best of intentions sending her back to Wind Gap, but Adora and Amma strike me as the kind of people you want to stay well away from if you have an interest in self-preservation. Poor Camille.

[SHD]

I didn't notice any words scratched in objects this episode. Did I miss them or are they done with that now?

That scene when they found Alice and showed Camille's reaction was brutal.

I didn't understand what was going on in the scene where Camille followed Amma to the pig farm.

[Alice Mudgarden]

For a reason I can't totally pinpoint, this show lingers with me. Other shows I can walk away, all la-dee-da, but not this one.

Putting together the mystery of the town itself is as large as the murders and I'm not even sure if what I feel about anyone is even right. I second-guess everything. Which makes it engaging but also confusing haha.

 

As far as words go, I saw:

- The poster at the rehab clinic changing from "You are not invisible" to "You are unworthy" for one shot

- "Baby" painted on the side of a building as Camille is driving over the train tracks, following Amma (when she was angry about Adora kicking her out of Bob Nash's home)

- The stained glass billiards light shade saying "belittle" in one shot

- The "St. Louis 90" sign changing to "Spiteful 90" as Camille is speeding down the road at the end of the episode

- "Faith" was also printed on a glass candle jar but I think that one was for real. Especially since Camille wasn't in the scene, Det. Willis was.

 

Also, I thought it was interesting that more than one building had the "delicious meat" ad painted on it, shown smack in the middle of the screen. It felt like it meant something but not in the hidden word way.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Alice Mudgarden

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

 

I didn't understand what was going on in the scene where Camille followed Amma to the pig farm.

 

 

 

I had my eyes half hidden for that scene because I thought I'd be accosted by some kind of pig harm!

Edited July 23, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[SHD]

@Alice Mudgarden - Good catches on all those words. And I was really trying to pay attention this week, too.

[preeya]

HELP ME, I'M LOST AND GETTING LOSTER.

[Alice Mudgarden]

38 minutes ago, SHD said:

@Alice Mudgarden - Good catches on all those words. And I was really trying to pay attention this week, too.

Thanks!

This episode was a bit harder than last week's, I think, but I was also watching on my laptop and kept feeling like I had to adjust the screen to see clearly haha

Edited July 23, 2018 by Alice Mudgarden

[SHD]

5 minutes ago, preeya said:

HELP ME, I'M LOST AND GETTING LOSTER.

Anything in particular or just overall? Probably someone on this forum can answer specific questions.

[WaltersHair]

I've been sort of on the fence with this one. The plot is reminiscent of Rectify (you must see it if you have not already). Tonight was just odd people interacting with other odd/tragic people. I don't feel like the murder plot was advanced much.

Reading the book as the series progresses.

[jenh526]

The only words I caught were on Camille when Alice(?) told her not to talk to her. Camille pulled her jeans down a little to reveal what I think was F*** You etched on her skin.

When did we learn Alice’s name? Must’ve missed that part.

[KillBill]

I'm curious as to why Adora hates Camille so much and why she blames her for everything. It seems reckless to blame her own daughter for random things knowing she cuts herself. I'm fascinated by this show and the quick glimpses of the past but its so annoying not having any back story. Why did Adora visit Camille at the facility but was so angry that she threw the roses to the ground? 

Adora criticizes Camille's every action but rewards Amma with affection while she displays the same behavior (sneaking out, drinking). How does Adora notice Camille sneaking out and excessive drinking but never Amma...strange. Amma seems to have a bit of a split personality. One second she's a perfect pretty doll, the next she's the ultimate bad girl. Also how weird was her confrontation with Camille when she found her with the detective!? Amma is such a bully

[VagueDisclaimer]

1 hour ago, jenh526 said:

The only words I caught were on Camille when Alice(?) told her not to talk to her. Camille pulled her jeans down a little to reveal what I think was F*** You etched on her skin.

When did we learn Alice’s name? Must’ve missed that part.

Right at the very start, when the nurse pulls the ear buds from her ears, she says her name. Also when Camille is first brought to her room, the nurse quickly introduces them by name.

55 minutes ago, KillBill said:

I'm curious as to why Adora hates Camille so much and why she blames her for everything. It seems reckless to blame her own daughter for random things knowing she cuts herself. I'm fascinated by this show and the quick glimpses of the past but its so annoying not having any back story. Why did Adora visit Camille at the facility but was so angry that she threw the roses to the ground? 

Adora criticizes Camille's every action but rewards Amma with affection while she displays the same behavior (sneaking out, drinking). How does Adora notice Camille sneaking out and excessive drinking but never Amma...strange. Amma seems to have a bit of a split personality. One second she's a perfect pretty doll, the next she's the ultimate bad girl. Also how weird was her confrontation with Camille when she found her with the detective!? Amma is such a bully

I feel like Amma barely has a real personality, all she is is manipulations. She grew up in the shadows of her devil and angel big sisters and with a parent like Adora, she just learned to please and manipulate to keep Adora calm and to get her way moreso than develop an actual personality. Even her friends, the way she spoke about them, they aren’t her friends, they’re her minions that love and adore her and do anything she says for her. 

Regarding Adora’s hatred for Camille, I would really like some insight, because it’s not just frustrating, it’s boring to watch. You know every scene they share Adora will just pit blame on her no matter the situation, even a cut on her hand. It comes off completely one note and like a caricature, when it feels likeAdora should be a layered character. 

I will say, the sheriff should really watch more crime TV, because the way Adora keeps insinuating herself into the story makes me suspicious of her actions, so you’d think it’d possibly ping something for others. Then again, this is the town that held the funeral for Adora’s arrival, so maybe this is just how things work in this town and it’s entirely in character. 

[Court]

Amma and Adora are both awful. I want to to know more about Adobe's husband. 

[Should Be Working]

A troubling, unsettling program, rather spooky at times. I watched it on my tablet using good earphone and was treated to all sorts of very faint buzzing and haunting instrumental music and female voices floating in and out of the left earphoneI. I don’t hear it when I watch the show on our large living room TV.

Question: how exactly did Camille’s younger sister die? I saw the scene (in Episode 1) where she in sitting next to Camille in bed and suddenly appears to suffer a heart attack or grand mal seizure, but the scene ends quickly.

[ferjy]

3 hours ago, SHD said:

I didn't notice any words scratched in objects this episode. Did I miss them or are they done with that now?

That scene when they found Alice and showed Camille's reaction was brutal.

I didn't understand what was going on in the scene where Camille followed Amma to the pig farm.

I guess it’s too much to hope that they would be gone. It’s a ludicrous concept. Do they really think viewers are going to sit there pausing all these scenes to read the words. Most of us don’t have the time not to mention it stops the natural flow of watching a show. They should have thought of a better way to present them.

Edited July 23, 2018 by ferjy

[izabella]

What was Amma about to tell her friends when she was being a drunken bully to Camille?  Something about Camille's past that Camille kept telling her to shut up about.

I don't understand why Camille always wears the same clothes.  She only has one outfit?

[ferjy]

I’m beginner to think Camille is a ghost. She even had on the same clothes when she was at the hospital with Alice. Unless she has several changes of clothes in the same style and colour.

22 hours ago, Court said:

Amma and Adora are both awful. I want to to know more about Adobe's husband. 

Adobe, lol. Autocorrect strikes again. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by ferjy

[Chefmom]

If you feel like this series is confusing go to the Reddit forum on the show & each episode.  The posts go into a lot of details that I have missed watching the episodes. They have posts for readers  of the book as well as non book threads. 

[SarahPrtr]

8 hours ago, preeya said:

HELP ME, I'M LOST AND GETTING LOSTER.

Any plot points in particular?

 

I can definitely see why people would find the series confusing.  I know what's going to happen, and I was actually getting irritated with all the past/present clips being all choppy and too deliberate.

 

7 hours ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

 

I feel like Amma barely has a real personality, all she is is manipulations. She grew up in the shadows of her devil and angel big sisters and with a parent like Adora, she just learned to please and manipulate to keep Adora calm and to get her way moreso than develop an actual personality. Even her friends, the way she spoke about them, they aren’t her friends, they’re her minions that love and adore her and do anything she says for her. 

Regarding Adora’s hatred for Camille, I would really like some insight, because it’s not just frustrating, it’s boring to watch. You know every scene they share Adora will just pit blame on her no matter the situation, even a cut on her hand. It comes off completely one note and like a caricature, when it feels likeAdora should be a layered character.

Effing hate Adora.  And her husband is a spineless pussy.  I can see how they would work well together as a couple, as screwed up as that sounds. 

[Chaos Theory]

I am actually enjoying this.  I miss the words written all over the place but I really don’t care.  It’s a minor concept.  The rest of it is far more interesting especially the relationship between Adora and her two daughters.  Hell Adora’s relationship with the town.  How the sheriff pretty much came to her with sensitive information on a serial murder.  That is the kind of stuff I find interesting.  I would love to delve more into exactly why she blames Camille for everything but the show does a pretty good job at hinting at it.  Camille is a disappointment to her a woman who values appeareance above all else.  Camille is an alcoholic who cuts and who at least once ended up hospitalized for it.  That’s not something you can hide away.  I am guessing there is also more to the story as to how Camille has failed to live up to Adora standards.  And now she is publicly investigating the murders which must offend Adora greatly.  

Its just not something you do in polite society.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[LilaFowler]

Without this forum I would have never noticed the words that change. Seriously. I'm too busy reading the closed captioning to pay attention to signs and whatnot in the background. I don't know if I'm getting old or maybe the actors are mumbling, but I need the CC to be on in order to catch 100% of what's said.

[preeya]

11 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

Without this forum I would have never noticed the words that change. Seriously. I'm too busy reading the closed captioning to pay attention to signs and whatnot in the background. I don't know if I'm getting old or maybe the actors are mumbling, but I need the CC to be on in order to catch 100% of what's said.

Yep, that's exactly how I watch it, and I'm really lost as to what is going on.

[zobot81]

8 hours ago, KillBill said:

I'm curious as to why Adora hates Camille so much and why she blames her for everything. It seems reckless to blame her own daughter for random things knowing she cuts herself. I'm fascinated by this show and the quick glimpses of the past but its so annoying not having any back story. Why did Adora visit Camille at the facility but was so angry that she threw the roses to the ground? 

Adora criticizes Camille's every action but rewards Amma with affection while she displays the same behavior (sneaking out, drinking). How does Adora notice Camille sneaking out and excessive drinking but never Amma...strange. Amma seems to have a bit of a split personality. One second she's a perfect pretty doll, the next she's the ultimate bad girl. Also how weird was her confrontation with Camille when she found her with the detective!? Amma is such a bully

There several posts in the E. 2 thread about Camille and Amma's mom, which attempt to explain what kind of person and mother she is, from users' first-hand perspectives.  I don't want to rehash all of it, but I encourage you to read some of the things that users have already said about being raised by a mother like Adora (including me).

There is not a whole lot to understand about why she treats Camille so badly -- the show has not gotten into the mom's youth or life experiences, yet -- but to be sure, Adora is a clear narcissist.  And Camille fulfills the role of the scapegoat child, and probably treated her now-deceased sister as the golden child, who was eventually replaced by Amma.  While this might go without saying, the narcissist's scapegoat typically cannot do anything right, while the golden child can do no wrong.  Both dynamics are destabilizing and destructive to the child's development.  For Camille, she keeps apologizing and trying to assume responsibility for whatever upsets her mother, without success.  For Adora, she is doing a LOT of acting out -- presumably to get her mother to see her for who she really is, and not the perfect angel that Adora willfully believes her golden child is.  For both children, the stakes are very high.  For both, they develop a profound grief that comes from feeling unknown and therefore unloved by their mother.  The truth is that Adora is incapable of truly knowing or loving either child.   It would take me several more paragraphs to explain the implications of black and white thinking and narcissistic objectification, so I'll defer to an outside resource:  http://parenting.exposed/the-relationship-between-the-scapegoat-and-the-golden-child/

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I am actually enjoying this.  I miss the words written all over the place but I really don’t care.  It’s a minor concept.  

I agree. I mean, obviously, they're important but I feel like it's more that we know they exist at all--at least the ones carved into her body--than it is what particular words they are. I could be wrong so early into the show, of course, but like someone else said, there would probably be more of an effort on the show's makers' part to ensure we see them clearly if we were meant to catch them all.

Oh, my goodness--that scapegoat/golden child article! I think that's the same one my therapist had me read a while back!

Edited July 23, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[preeya]

Adora is a hypocrite. She chastizes Camille for looking into the murder but then she gossips with the sheriff about it.  I'd like to see Camille at some point slap the shit out of her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Adora really is the worst. For someone who is so concerned about propriety and what people think, she didn't hesitate to bust in while Camille was talking to Ann's father.

But Adora's #1 moment in this episode was when she cut herself while gardening and said to Camille, "Look what you've done!" When Camille pointed out that she wasn't the one who drove into the rose bushes, Adora yelled, "Nothing's ever your fault, is it?" Adora's constant need to blame Camille for everything is summed up in that moment. Camille may be a lot of things (a drunk, a cutter, an embarrassment to her family), but she didn't wreck the rose bushes (which is what caused Adora to be working on them) and she didn't actually cut Adora, yet somehow Adora twisted the situation and the conversation to make it seem like Camille did this to her.

I was also rolling my eyes when she asked her husband if he thought Amma was safe with Camille in the house. When he very logically asked why she would say that, I was expecting some kind of bombshell that would reveal something terrible or violent that Camille had done in the past. But no, Adora's response was that Camille is coming and going at all hours and drinking. So not conforming to an old person's schedule of going to bed at 8pm somehow make Camille a DANGER to Amma? Okay then. I don't deny that Camille is clearly an alcoholic, but considering the fact that Adora and Alan were both having a drink before bed when Camille showed up on their doorstep in the first episode, it seems a bit much for Adora to equate drinking alcohol with being a danger to a teenage girl (especially since Adora doesn't realize how much Camille drinks). She just uses anything Camille does as an excuse to berate her or put her down.

Poor Camille. She saw how much Alice was hurting and she thought that she had helped soothe her a bit, only to find that Alice killed herself as soon as she left the room. Just finding someone's body must be traumatizing enough, but Camille must feel a huge amount of guilt for not trying to sugar coat things in order to give Alice hope. Yes, there are a million other things she could have said when Alice asked if having a shitty family gets better when you get older, but she couldn't have known that Alice would be so upset that she would commit suicide. It was bad enough losing a sister and having a horrible mother, but Alice's suicide on top of that? No wonder she drinks.

John's girlfriend Ashley seems like a total control freak who cares about appearances (hey, she sounds a lot like Adora now!) so I'm not sure why she didn't dump him once suspicion was cast on him for his sister's murder. Maybe she's one of those people who loves the attention she gets from having a connection to a tragedy. I had to laugh when Camille looked at Ashley in her cheer uniform and said, "I thought school was already out." But of course Ashley just like wearing her uniform for no reason! Maybe the reason she's with John is because he rarely talks so she gets to do all the talking.

13 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

There several posts in the E. 2 thread about Camille and Amma's mom, which attempt to explain what kind of person and mother she is, from users' first-hand perspectives.  I don't want to rehash all of it, but I encourage you to read some of the things that users have already said about being raised by a mother like Adora (including me).

There is not a whole lot to understand about why she treats Camille so badly -- the show has not gotten into the mom's youth or life experiences, yet -- but to be sure, Adora is a clear narcissist.  And Camille fulfills the role of the scapegoat child, and probably treated her now-deceased sister as the golden child, who was eventually replaced by Amma.  While this might go without saying, the narcissist's scapegoat typically cannot do anything right, while the golden child can do no wrong.  Both dynamics are destabilizing and destructive to the child's development.  For Camille, she keeps apologizing and trying to assume responsibility for whatever upsets her mother, without success.  For Adora, she is doing a LOT of acting out -- presumably to get her mother to see her for who she really is, and not the perfect angel that Adora willfully believes her golden child is.  For both children, the stakes are very high.  For both, they develop a profound grief that comes from feeling unknown and therefore unloved by their mother.  The truth is that Adora is incapable of truly knowing or loving either child.   It would take me several more paragraphs to explain the implications of black and white thinking and narcissistic objectification, so I'll defer to an outside resource:  http://parenting.exposed/the-relationship-between-the-scapegoat-and-the-golden-child/

ITA - and on top of that, Adora resents Camille for being the daughter who lived while her first golden child Marian died. We saw in the flashbacks that Adora already doted on Marian and ignored Camille so those relationships and patterns were already established, but after Marian died that must have made Camille and even bigger scapegoat for Adora.

[zobot81]

The show builds dread a la David Lynch. Of course, there are overtly dreadful things happening in Wind Gap.  But something else is just...not right. The time warp of the town, the scantily clad youth; it feels like the town itself is too permissive, or too promiscuous, or somehow -- complicit?  The energy there is unwholesome, disturbing and dysfunctional.

Ugh, and how often is Camille going to see flashes of little girls?

Because I can't even.

[WearyTraveler]

Adora, Alan, Amma, Ann, Alice, Ashley... What's with all the "A" names?

The only female protagonists whose names start with a different letter are Camille and Marian, I can't help but wonder if that is significant in any way.

Edited July 23, 2018 by WearyTraveler

[SarahPrtr]

4 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

Adora, Alan, Amma, Ann, Alice, Ashley... What's with all the "A" names?

Only Camille and Marian have names that start with a different letter, I can't help but wonder if that is significant in any way.

Reminds me of all the L-names from Smallville - Lex Luthor, Lana Lang, Lionel Lang, Lois Lane...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

Adora, Alan, Amma, Ann, Alice, Ashley... What's with all the "A" names?

The only female protagonists whose names start with a different letter are Camille and Marian, I can't help but wonder if that is significant in any way.

And Jackie and Natalie!

[Empress1]

The actress who played Alice

Spoiler

has met two untimely ends: she was executed by drowning in The Handmaid's Tale and she died by suicide here

. I hope she gets to do a comedy soon.

On 7/23/2018 at 8:07 AM, zobot81 said:

There several posts in the E. 2 thread about Camille and Amma's mom, which attempt to explain what kind of person and mother she is, from users' first-hand perspectives.  I don't want to rehash all of it, but I encourage you to read some of the things that users have already said about being raised by a mother like Adora (including me).

There is not a whole lot to understand about why she treats Camille so badly -- the show has not gotten into the mom's youth or life experiences, yet -- but to be sure, Adora is a clear narcissist.  And Camille fulfills the role of the scapegoat child, and probably treated her now-deceased sister as the golden child, who was eventually replaced by Amma.  While this might go without saying, the narcissist's scapegoat typically cannot do anything right, while the golden child can do no wrong.  Both dynamics are destabilizing and destructive to the child's development.  For Camille, she keeps apologizing and trying to assume responsibility for whatever upsets her mother, without success.  For Adora, she is doing a LOT of acting out -- presumably to get her mother to see her for who she really is, and not the perfect angel that Adora willfully believes her golden child is.  For both children, the stakes are very high.  For both, they develop a profound grief that comes from feeling unknown and therefore unloved by their mother.  The truth is that Adora is incapable of truly knowing or loving either child.   It would take me several more paragraphs to explain the implications of black and white thinking and narcissistic objectification, so I'll defer to an outside resource:  http://parenting.exposed/the-relationship-between-the-scapegoat-and-the-golden-child/

It's funny because I was expressing some reservation to my mother about something recently, and she laughed and said "I knew you'd say that. I know you." And it IS comforting to be known and seen, even at our worst, by people who love us because it means they care enough to look. Adora clearly does not care about any of her children - they are who she needs them to be and nothing else. Even the golden children serve HER needs and not theirs.

Edited August 8, 2018 by saoirse
Spoiler tag added

[zobot81]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:55 AM, Empress1 said:

The actress who played Alice

Spoiler

has met two untimely ends: she was executed by drowning in The Handmaid's Tale and she died by suicide here.

I hope she gets to do a comedy soon.

It's funny because I was expressing some reservation to my mother about something recently, and she laughed and said "I knew you'd say that. I know you." And it IS comforting to be known and seen, even at our worst, by people who love us because it means they care enough to look. Adora clearly does not care about any of her children - they are who she needs them to be and nothing else. Even the golden children serve HER needs and not theirs.

Thank you for sharing that. It seems such a simple thing, and I imagine that anyone who achieves intimacy with a primary figure (especially their mother) will take that intimacy for granted.  It's natural for a mother to want to see and know a child. It's the very first step towards real attachment.  But even to pause for a second and realize that something like a simple exchange between your mother, one which gave you even the smallest comfort and grounding, simply never happens between children and N-parents.  It's totally foreign.

I will speak personally and say that the strong will to be seen and cherished for who I am made it possible for me to eventually achieve intimacy, but it took a lot of hard and painful work to get there.

 Camille's self-harm in all of its manifestations is extremely painful to watch.  This week's episode was especially difficult, because, despite her reluctance to open up and connect with her young roommate, she does.  And it results in yet another unbearable, painful loss that drives her deeper into catastrophic grief and self-blame.  I have no doubt that she blames herself for this girl's death -- after all, she told her the truth about what to expect from her mother, over time.  Alice should expect nothing, no improvement, not victories.

Camille told Alice the truth, and the truth was too much for the young woman to bear.  It's simply tragic, tragic, tragic.  I mean.  How much more validation does Camille need to prove what her mother has been telling her all along? She's dangerous.

[ferjy]

13 hours ago, preeya said:

Adora is a hypocrite. She chastizes Camille for looking into the murder but then she gossips with the sheriff about it.  I'd like to see Camille at some point slap the shit out of her.

Maybe Adora has something to hide and she's afraid Camille will expose her.

14 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Without this forum I would have never noticed the words that change. Seriously. I'm too busy reading the closed captioning to pay attention to signs and whatnot in the background. I don't know if I'm getting old or maybe the actors are mumbling, but I need the CC to be on in order to catch 100% of what's said.

You know, I used to watch most shows on my phone or tablet and I could never understand why people complained about the sound. Then I got a nice new big HD TV set and so many of the shows were muffled! Great visuals, but the sound isn't what older TV sets were. I even bought a sound bar and though it helped, a lot of the shows still weren't clear. Yet on my phone they're fine. I guess because it's made for good sound because it's also an mp3 player. The new sets are made more for visuals than sound. You have to invest in an elaborate sound system to get decent sound.

[iMonrey]

I'm finding this show increasingly unpleasant to watch, what with the cutting and the vomiting of blood. I just can't with that. When Camille found her roommate dead and started hacking away at her arm it was all I could do not to change the channel. 

I'm still interested in finding out who the murderer is and that's mainly why I'll keep watching but ick. This show squicks me out and I also don't find the artistic flourishes with the words and the flashbacks particularly clever or compelling. 

[ferjy]

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am actually enjoying this.  I miss the words written all over the place but I really don’t care.  It’s a minor concept.  The rest of it is far more interesting especially the relationship between Adora and her two daughters.  Hell Adora’s relationship with the town.  How the sheriff pretty much came to her with sensitive information on a serial murder.  That is the kind of stuff I find interesting.  I would love to delve more into exactly why she blames Camille for everything but the show does a pretty good job at hinting at it.  Camille is a disappointment to her a woman who values appeareance above all else.  Camille is an alcoholic who cuts and who at least once ended up hospitalized for it.  That’s not something you can hide away.  I am guessing there is also more to the story as to how Camille has failed to live up to Adora standards.  And now she is publicly investigating the murders which must offend Adora greatly.  

Its just not something you do in polite society.

I agree. I'm glad to learn that the words aren't actual clues. I'm just not bothering with them. It makes for better viewing.

13 hours ago, jenh526 said:

The only words I caught were on Camille when Alice(?) told her not to talk to her. Camille pulled her jeans down a little to reveal what I think was F*** You etched on her skin.

When did we learn Alice’s name? Must’ve missed that part.

Right, those words were intentional at least, and pertinent to the scene, an F U in response to Alice's telling Camille not to talk to her.

[ferjy]

14 hours ago, preeya said:

Yep, that's exactly how I watch it, and I'm really lost as to what is going on.

I don't think we're supposed to know a whole lot yet. The mystery is still unfolding. We're mostly seeing the characters developing at this point.

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Adora really is the worst. For someone who is so concerned about propriety and what people think, she didn't hesitate to bust in while Camille was talking to Ann's father.

But Adora's #1 moment in this episode was when she cut herself while gardening and said to Camille, "Look what you've done!" When Camille pointed out that she wasn't the one who drove into the rose bushes, Adora yelled, "Nothing's ever your fault, is it?" Adora's constant need to blame Camille for everything is summed up in that moment. Camille may be a lot of things (a drunk, a cutter, an embarrassment to her family), but she didn't wreck the rose bushes (which is what caused Adora to be working on them) and she didn't actually cut Adora, yet somehow Adora twisted the situation and the conversation to make it seem like Camille did this to her.

 

Yes, that was very telling. There's something very unusual there. Adora not only loathes Camille, but she completely dotes on the other children, first Marian (which I assumed was because of her illness, but maybe it wasn't that at all) and now Amma. She's constantly telling Amma how much she loves her, and kissing and hugging her. It's so stressed that I hope they go somewhere with this and it's not just a dead plot point.

[nachomama]

How old is Amma really? I thought it was a joke when she said she was almost 11. When she and Camille were talking then they both snuck out.

[MilkMachine]

11 hours ago, izabella said:

I don't understand why Camille always wears the same clothes.  She only has one outfit?

Two things: one, she keeps her skin completely covered so people won’t see her scars from the cutting. Two, just a guess on my part but it seems like it takes a lot just for Camille to get through the day. I suspect she adopted a “uniform” of similar clothes so she doesn’t have to worry about what she wears too much.

3 minutes ago, nachomama said:

How old is Amma really? I thought it was a joke when she said she was almost 11. When she and Camille were talking then they both snuck out.

I think what she said was, “Mama says I’m almost a woman.”

[nachomama]

51 minutes ago, MilkMachine said:

 

I think what she said was, “Mama says I’m almost a woman.”

Oh, haha, thank you! I know she's still toooo young but I was getting seriously squicked if she's that young.

About her "uniform" I know she has to have long sleeves but holy crap it's hot! Is there not a cooler material to wear? hell, even get the workout clothes with "wicking", you can always claim you are always on your way to or from a workout.

[NutMeg]

Does Jean Marc Vallée always film people from the back seat, or is it only here and Big Little Lies? Or just in the beginning sequence?

I crave a linear sequence of events. I know, when flashbacks first appeared on TV, it was edgy, challenging, and dare I say it gave an intellectual cachet to the series. But now that it's been done to death, it feels lazy and self-indulgent. It also prevent me (and I say me because obviously YMMV) for really feeling for the person in the flashback - part of me seems to go, yeah, yeah, hard stuff, but can we get back to now please? And don't get me started on what could be either in the present or in the past (and I'd never ever think they were in the past if it wasn't for all those meddling flashbacks).

[freebie]

Count me as one of the viewers who would have no idea there were so many highlighted words. I only caught a few in the first couple of episodes and spotted exactly one word(s) in this episode, even though I'm now primed to look for them. I paused to see what was written on Camille's abdomen when she first "introduced" herself to Alice, but even that was hard to make out and would have been impossible to see if I hadn't paused. Honestly, if I didn't know she was covered in words, I could easily have concluded that she was just showing some scars to Alice to prove she was a fellow traveler.

So, I think I have to agree with the viewpoint that, while catching all of the words isn't critical to the viewing experience, I'm having a hard time dealing with the visual "noise" in general. There are so many flashbacks, quick cuts, visions, etc. that I feel like I need an Excel spreadsheet to parse what I'm seeing. Not only that, but there are so many things that just aren't clear enough for me to figure out what exactly happened, who was involved, and whether it really happened or was just some vision of Camille's (like the girl in the road). Case in point was the entire sequence leading up to Camille finding Alice. I saw flashbacks of what looked like Alan coming to visit with flowers, Alice sitting with a woman who I guess was her mother, a woman (in white!) flinging the flowers onto the floor (was that supposed to be Adora), a sliver of Alice through the bathroom door with what appeared to be a lot of blood dripping, and the bottle of cleaning fluid (?) next to Alice. But I have no idea if she drank it to kill herself, or how did she get a hold of it. They showed Camille focused on the custodian's cart, but ...

I was thinking of reading the book to see if that helps improve my viewing experience, but I won't if it's just as non-linear. I don't need everything resolved in episode 2 (or on page 10), but throw me a bone once in a while! I remain hopeful we might start to see some forward progress soon, based mostly on the preview that refers back to something we've already seen, as opposed to adds 5 other mysteries. Just this episode alone, we have Amma's veiled threats about what Camille did in the past, the whole sequence at the pig farm, the utter weirdness between Adora and Alan, John's girlfriend randomly inserting herself into the mix (and wearing an out-of-season cheerleader's uniform in the process), and the incident with Alice -- did that occur at the beginning of Camille's most recent hospitalization or was it at some earlier time?

And I thought Westworld this past season was a challenge!

[Black Knight]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And Jackie and Natalie!

And also Jodes, Ashley's sister who is one of the two girls always hanging out with Amma.

[Court]

I was the most confused about the pig farm sequence. I felt like it was supposed to tell me something but I wasn't sure what. 

[WaltersHair]

I was wondering if the pig farm scene was supposed to occur before the party the sheriff broke up. Weren't they chasing a pig about the size of the one Amma picked out? So much mumbling. This is Nirvana levels of mumbling.

I'm getting a Stepford Wives (the original) level of creepy town. I don't understand the control Adora has over the town. If she came across as smart and savvy as Jackie, then yes. But this limp-hugger? No.

I'm still in though. Closed caption and close to the screen, but I'm in.

[WearyTraveler]

56 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I was wondering if the pig farm scene was supposed to occur before the party the sheriff broke up. Weren't they chasing a pig about the size of the one Amma picked out? So much mumbling. This is Nirvana levels of mumbling.

That makes sense.  She got the pig for the cruel game afterward and she knew Camille saw her.

57 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I don't understand the control Adora has over the town. If she came across as smart and savvy as Jackie, then yes. But this limp-hugger? No.

I'm thinking it may have something to do with her wealth?  So far, their house is the largest we have seen, and I believe the pig farm belongs to the family.  If they are one of the, or the, richest family in town, and the pig farm was a large contributor to the town's economy, then it would follow that the family, and Adora as the obvious head of it, would wield a lot of power.

[bijoux]

It's Preaker Farms, so it's definitely theirs, either Adora's family or her first husband's, I don't know. Plus, Camille mentioned how the mom of the boy who saw the woman in white worked for Adora on either the farm or in the slaughterhouse in the previous episode. 

[tennisgurl]

This town is so creepy, I half expect the Wicker Man to get wheeled out any second. Granted, a few people seem alright (Camille's bartender friend, John), but most everyone is either creepy, clearly hiding something, petty, or short sighted and oblivious. No wonder Camille made a break for it. Poor Camille, it was awful seeing what happened to her roommate she bonded with, and her reaction. She clearly has some major issues to work out, and yet, she STILL comes off as the most well adjusted person in her family. Between her spineless step-dad, narcissist mom, and file fatal little sister, its amazing she is as functioning as she is. 

What is extra awful for Camille about her roommates death, is that she seemed to have gotten into a bit of a Big Sister/Little Sister relationship with her, and she died too, just like her biological sister. I also think the lost sister lead to more of the bitterness towards that Adora has towards Camille. She thinks of her dead daughter as the perfect angel, while Camille is the devil child who dared to live while the perfect one died. She probably picked the younger daughter as the "good" one she could be proud of, and Camille as the "bad" one, she could blame all her problems on, and it got even worse when the perfect daughter died before she could do anything to have her own life, and upset Adora and her imagine of a perfect little girl. 

Amma, meanwhile, is pushing at her mom to see what she does, and how far she can go. Its really hard to get a beat on her, because Amma seems to be such a manipulator, its hard to see what she is actually like. I do think she really is interested in getting to know her mythical big sister (and its an interesting character bit that teenage Camille was one of the cool girls), but she has no idea how to really reach out, so she manipulates and pushes her, and tries to see what she can get away with. Which makes sense, considering she basically tries to act like an angel to her parents and authority figures, a dictator to her friends, and a tiny temptress (gross!) to any somewhat young man. She is trying to see what Amma to be with Camille. 

I really love the shots of the bar, and of the parking lot when Camille and investigator guy were hanging out. It looked sweaty and kind of dirty, and very small town after dark.