S06.E19 Doug

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Losing over 200 pounds, Doug is now an active part of his family's lives and inspires a healthier lifestyle for them all.  However, Doug's eating disorder and trouble finding his own identity threaten to derail his progress.

Remember Doug?  Let me help.  He's very tall and big.  He married a woman who previously had weight loss surgery.  Doug was the world's first super plus sized meth head in his youth.  He and his smirking bride had a really adorable set of twins.  Otherwise, Doug's episode was rather dull.  

We can expect weight gain, weight loss and Doug trying to figure out what kind of person he wants to be.  I suspect he wants to be mobile and less than 600 pounds.  Shall we see?

This is the regular episode thread.  I will be open after the US East Coast showing.  

[chickenella]

Ohhhh, meh.  I was kind of looking forward to this because of in the previews it showed Doug trying to do a vegetarian diet and lose weight at the same time. Vegetarian and low carb, to be exact. Although I saw he was making a sandwich with ham, where the hell does that fit in on a vegetarian diet??!Not an easy task and I see he had to go off of it in order to continue on his journey. I am vegetarian and was hoping on some pointers on how to do this, keep up your protein and lose weight. Oh well. Myself, I started off vegan but had to add in eggs, fish, cheese in order to get some protein in my diet,  even with that my last appointment I was a bit anemic. It isn't easy. Plus I like to eat, or I should say I like to feel full and trying to get that by living off egg whites, fish and boca burgers has proven to be a challenge. Well, I lost 35lbs last summer without trying too hard, I just need to apply myself more this summer.

[Bronx Babe]

"Now I'm thinking Dr. Now is disappointed in me right now"

A triple play!

[Susanlynn9]

59 minutes ago, chickenella said:

Ohhhh, meh.  I was kind of looking forward to this because of in the previews it showed Doug trying to do a vegetarian diet and lose weight at the same time. Vegetarian and low carb, to be exact. Although I saw he was making a sandwich with ham, where the hell does that fit in on a vegetarian diet??!Not an easy task and I see he had to go off of it in order to continue on his journey. I am vegetarian and was hoping on some pointers on how to do this, keep up your protein and lose weight. Oh well. Myself, I started off vegan but had to add in eggs, fish, cheese in order to get some protein in my diet,  even with that my last appointment I was a bit anemic. It isn't easy. Plus I like to eat, or I should say I like to feel full and trying to get that by living off egg whites, fish and boca burgers has proven to be a challenge. Well, I lost 35lbs last summer without trying too hard, I just need to apply myself more this summer.

Beyond Meat has Beefy Crumbles and I use their Grilled Chick'n to add to salads and stuff. They also have different sausages. All of these are gluten free and vegan with high protein. I was still eating meat when I had my WLS in 2010, but I went gluten-free vegan this past year and I have been able to keep my protein up with these products and chickpea pasta which has about double the protein of regular pasta and less carbs.

[Ivylady]

Watching the beginning because I missed it. Doug sounds like a big baby. 

[DC Gal in VA]

1 hour ago, chickenella said:

Ohhhh, meh.  I was kind of looking forward to this because of in the previews it showed Doug trying to do a vegetarian diet and lose weight at the same time. Vegetarian and low carb, to be exact. Although I saw he was making a sandwich with ham, where the hell does that fit in on a vegetarian diet??!Not an easy task and I see he had to go off of it in order to continue on his journey. I am vegetarian and was hoping on some pointers on how to do this, keep up your protein and lose weight. Oh well. Myself, I started off vegan but had to add in eggs, fish, cheese in order to get some protein in my diet,  even with that my last appointment I was a bit anemic. It isn't easy. Plus I like to eat, or I should say I like to feel full and trying to get that by living off egg whites, fish and boca burgers has proven to be a challenge. Well, I lost 35lbs last summer without trying too hard, I just need to apply myself more this summer.

Wow chickenella 35 pounds lost last summer, that's amazing, congrats! You did it before and I am sure you can keep "making progress" as the poundticipants say.

I think that each person has to find their own path to weight loss and weight management. I do low carb, with higher fat and protein, but I really get a lot of low and moderate carb vegetables in my meals as well as lower carb servings of fruit. I'm an omnivore btw.

Too funny seeing your screen name along with you having been vegan!

[chickenella]

31 minutes ago, Susanlynn9 said:

Beyond Meat has Beefy Crumbles and I use their Grilled Chick'n to add to salads and stuff. They also have different sausages.

Omg, yes!! I've been looking for the Beyond Meat, I have to go to Whole foods to find it, my local supermarket doesn't carry it. We plan on a bbq for the 4th and I hear the beyond meat burgers are really good grilled. I also use the Gardien products: chick'n, meatless balls, beefless tips or whatever it's all called.

7 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Too funny seeing your screen name along with you having been vegan!

Well, sometimes you run out of screen names. A woman I work with calls people "chickenella" (among other things) as a term of endearment and it kind of stuck in my head, everyone has nicknames at work. Lately she's been calling me "Mademoiselle" and I prefer that one.

[Miss Ruth]

Can we say BORING?!?!?!?!

I wish I had a nickel for every time that big baby said, "me and Ashley,"  and "where my weight's at."  I guess I should be grateful that he didn't add "journey" to every other sentence. At the end of the show, he regaled us with, "where both me and Ashley are at right now."  I do hope he continues and does well, although I don't need another two hours of his "journey" next year.

I have to say, though, that Ashley seems to be intelligent and quite insightful.  That's a far cry from Lisa last week.

[aliya]

7 hours ago, Ivylady said:

Watching the beginning because I missed it. Doug sounds like a big baby. 

"Doug sounds like is a big baby."    Fixed that for you.

[3girlsforus]

8 hours ago, Miss Ruth said:

I have to say, though, that Ashley seems to be intelligent and quite insightful.  That's a far cry from Lisa last week.

She was amazing. You could tell she completely agreed with Dr Now and was both worried and frustrated with Doug. But she also knew that a straight up agreeing with Dr Now approach wouldn’t help at all so she worked to steer him in the right direction. She didn’t enable to avoid confrontation. She didn’t condone his behavior. But she didn’t pile on when he was already backsliding. She took the Socratic approach. I was in awe of her patience. I would have lost my cool. 

I was also thrilled for her and her weight loss. So glad she didn’t let the stress of dealing with Baby Doug and his lack of progress derail her. And I loved that when she was pretty much at her goal but Doug hadn’t made as much progress she still smiled and was happy. She didn’t suppress her happiness because of him. She wasn’t obnoxious about it, but she allowed herself to be happy. 

[Pepper Mostly]

10 hours ago, chickenella said:

 Well, I lost 35lbs last summer without trying too hard, I just need to apply myself more this summer.

You mean "stay on track with your weight loss" don't you? or "continue your weight loss journey"?

[LuvMyShows]

Maybe boring, but I loved these two as a couple...very nice change of pace from the various combos of single/married/dating dysfunction we've been subjected to over the past years.

[Mothra]

I hope somebody with experience in vegetarian weight loss programs can explain something to me.  In this episode, Dr. Now seemed to be telling Doug not just to get off the vegetarian (or "vegetarian with ham sandwich") diet, but that lots of vegetables also didn't have a place in his eating plan.  My understanding has been that you have to eat a larger quantities of vegetarian protein sources to be equivalent to meat protein sources--is that right?  And to get "whole" protein from vegetable sources you have to combine foods, like beans and rice?  If part of the success of WLS is based on having a much smaller stomach, how can eating big salads--or big portions of protein-rich vegetarian foods--be good for you?  Vegetables and fruits are much less compact foods, just in their substance, not counting nutrition, and wouldn't that stretch out your stomach?

I know that in animals other than humans, herbivores have to spend much more of their day eating than carnivores do--that's why snakes and spiders do not have to eat every day, and pandas have been described as "eating and shitting" machines because that's about all they do.  I know that foods with a lot of fiber, like fruits and vegetables, go through your system a lot faster, while a strict Atkins diet can be constipating.

What, if anything, does all this mean?   What would a post-WLS vegetarian diet plan look like?  And if such a thing exists, how does it stack up with a high-protein diet based on meat in the long run?  Do vegetarians even get WLS in high enough numbers to provide data?

[CarolMK]

I'm no expert, but I have a vegan niece who I'm very close to. She's in her late 20's. She originally went vegan as a means of controlling her weight, and in fact did lose about 40 lbs in the first couple of years. She's now 28 and has been doing this about 12-13 years. The vegan replacements are a staple for her, and if you look at labels, the vegan burgers and sausage tend to be much lower in fat and calories. Peanut butter is a favorite as well, though I think she uses it more in sauces for stir frys, etc. Beans are also a favorite, all kinds, whether or not it's for soup, salad, or making into homemade hummus. Overall it's likely possible that there are fat vegetarians due to overconsumption of dairy and eggs, but it's probably more difficult to be a fat vegan unless you're eating a lot of junk food like Oreos, Fritos, etc. It seems most people turn vegan for their health and/or for their love of animals. But no one gets to 600 pounds and higher by eating healthy food. Nearly every participant is addicted to fast food, and if they are eating all of their meals at home, chances are they're eating stuff like chips, soda and sweets to account for their abnormal weight gain. But getting back to Doug, I don't understand how he got it into his head about meat being bad for you after he'd already worked with Dr. Now for quite awhile. Wouldn't he have thought to ask the doctor or nutritionist before he tried to go on a vegetarian diet? I think it was mainly an excuse so that he could eat bread again. And I agree that he was much more successful once Ashley was on board. As far as the kids are concerned, they could pretty much eat the same diet as their parents with some small additions and be perfectly healthy. No need to make a separate diet for them. And honestly, Doug being the food addict that he is, it's probably not a great idea for him to  be doing meal preparation in the first place. It's most likely one of his triggers to overeat, handling and being around food. 

[MrHufflepuff]

Pretty much everyone in my family (except me) is some form of vegetarian, but I'm not a nutritionist, so if anyone wants to clarify/add to this info, feel free...

Most vegetarian food sources aren't complete proteins.  They don't have all the essential amino acids.  So, traditional vegetarian diets combine proteins that are complementary, to obtain a complete protein.  Example are nuts + wheat or rice + beans.  I think quinoa is a complete protein (but I'm too lazy to look it up).

So, it's completely doable to get adequate protein on a vegetarian or vegan diet, but the foods are pretty bulky.  And some sources, such as nuts, are very high calorie.  So with a low-calorie, restricted-bulk diet like a post-WLS diet, I think it's going to be difficult with traditional foods.  But, nowadays, there are vegetarian/vegan protein supplements and manufactured foods which are relatively low calorie and low volume.  So I think a post-WLS diet would be possible if you used those kinds of foods to ensure adequate protein (and you don't want to stretch your stomach out).

Doug just wanted to eat bread, so he was talking out of his ass, though.  If he was serious about coming up with a vegan version of a post-WLS diet, bread wouldn't have been his go-to.

[Colleenna]

12 hours ago, chickenella said:

Omg, yes!! I've been looking for the Beyond Meat, I have to go to Whole foods to find it, my local supermarket doesn't carry it. We plan on a bbq for the 4th and I hear the beyond meat burgers are really good grilled. I also use the Gardien products: chick'n, meatless balls, beefless tips or whatever it's all called.

Well, sometimes you run out of screen names. A woman I work with calls people "chickenella" (among other things) as a term of endearment and it kind of stuck in my head, everyone has nicknames at work. Lately she's been calling me "Mademoiselle" and I prefer that one.

My local Wal-Mart carries Beyond Meat, Gardein, Boca, and Morningstar Farms. Gardein makes "crabless cakes" that are to die for. 

[Caoimhe]

4 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

She was amazing. You could tell she completely agreed with Dr Now and was both worried and frustrated with Doug. But she also knew that a straight up agreeing with Dr Now approach wouldn’t help at all so she worked to steer him in the right direction. She didn’t enable to avoid confrontation. She didn’t condone his behavior. But she didn’t pile on when he was already backsliding. She took the Socratic approach. I was in awe of her patience. I would have lost my cool. 

I was also thrilled for her and her weight loss. So glad she didn’t let the stress of dealing with Baby Doug and his lack of progress derail her. And I loved that when she was pretty much at her goal but Doug hadn’t made as much progress she still smiled and was happy. She didn’t suppress her happiness because of him. She wasn’t obnoxious about it, but she allowed herself to be happy. 

Ashley was the highlight of this fairly tedious episode for me.  So happy to see her get back to her goal weight despite having three small children and one big one to deal with.

[3girlsforus]

I am not a vegetarian so I could be completely wrong on this. But I could have sworn I have heard Dr Now say that part of the issue with too many veggies and not enough protein or using other sources for protein than is on his ‘list’ can be an issue because of the size of their stomach. In order to prevent expansion of the stomach, i.e undoing the surgery that he often talks about, they have to get their nutrients very efficiently to fit into the smaller stomach. I just wonder if lots of veggies and alternative proteins aren’t as efficient for those who have had the surgery. Rather than the idea that Dr Now is anti-vegetarian as a concept. 

[Ray Adverb]

The first half of the episode was a little dull.  The second half a little better.  I was glad that Doug got back on track.  His wife is a really sweet woman who was loving and able to be firm without being mean.  Dr. Now said he was failing and Doug took that way too hard, but I wish Dr. Now could have eased up a bit when he called to needle him about missing appointments.

14 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I am not a vegetarian so I could be completely wrong on this. But I could have sworn I have heard Dr Now say that part of the issue with too many veggies and not enough protein or using other sources for protein than is on his ‘list’ can be an issue because of the size of their stomach. In order to prevent expansion of the stomach, i.e undoing the surgery that he often talks about, they have to get their nutrients very efficiently to fit into the smaller stomach. I just wonder if lots of veggies and alternative proteins aren’t as efficient for those who have had the surgery. Rather than the idea that Dr Now is anti-vegetarian as a concept. 

Yes.  That's exactly what he said.  I wonder what his diet consists of?  Since you need to be efficient with your proteins, do you just eat nothing but pure meat?

[3girlsforus]

21 minutes ago, Ray Adverb said:

The first half of the episode was a little dull.  The second half a little better.  I was glad that Doug got back on track.  His wife is a really sweet woman who was loving and able to be firm without being mean.  Dr. Now said he was failing and Doug took that way too hard, but I wish Dr. Now could have eased up a bit when he called to needle him about missing appointments.

Yes.  That's exactly what he said.  I wonder what his diet consists of?  Since you need to be efficient with your proteins, do you just eat nothing but pure meat?

I’ve always wondered what foods are on the list. I don’t think it’s been mentioned in any detail. I did watch an episode, don’t remember who it was, but she wanted to speed up her weight loss so she was basically just eating salads. She ended up with emergency gall bladder surgery. He said it was because she didn’t have enough protein. So even though she didn’t do the carb thing like Doug did and was still eating healthy foods and low calorie, she ended up in trouble because of the protein situation. 

[Ray Adverb]

46 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I’ve always wondered what foods are on the list. I don’t think it’s been mentioned in any detail. I did watch an episode, don’t remember who it was, but she wanted to speed up her weight loss so she was basically just eating salads. She ended up with emergency gall bladder surgery. He said it was because she didn’t have enough protein. So even though she didn’t do the carb thing like Doug did and was still eating healthy foods and low calorie, she ended up in trouble because of the protein situation. 

Protein is really the only thing that you absolutely positively need to stay alive.  A skinny person could be in danger without fat and carbohydrates, but an overweight person can get those from his excess weight.  The need to keep getting protein is why you can't do something like lock James King in an cell for a year and just feed him nothing and provide only water.  Too much time without any protein and the body starts to consume its own muscles to keep going.

[MrHufflepuff]

Here's the version of the Dr. Now's diet I've seen floating around.

https://imgur.com/gallery/VmWGZ

He does allow for things like bread, but my understanding is that the meat is supposed to be given priority, so that you can ensure that you have enough protein before you get full.

If Doug had substituted a protein supplement for meat, he could have still met his protein requirement and the volume would have been similar to meat.  I don't think it'd be a tasty diet, but it should work.  I'm not sure about meat substitutes (like seitan, tofu or Garden Burgers), though.  We'd have to do a nutritional and volume analysis to see if those would work with this diet.

[Colleenna]

I can tell you (mostly because I just went in my freezer and looked at the package) that one Boca burger --- the flame grilled, not the vegan --- contains 15 grams of protein and 5 grams of carbs, at 120 calories. It's roughly the same size as a quarter-pound burger AFTER COOKING. 

3 ounces of extra firm tofu contains 8 grams of protein and 2 grams of carbs. 

I hate to say it, but I think Dr. Now has a blind spot about vegetarianism.

[AntAnn]

2 hours ago, ThereButFor said:

Ashley was the highlight of this fairly tedious episode for me.  So happy to see her get back to her goal weight despite having three small children and one big one to deal with.

Ashley is pretty amazing! So supportive and encouraging in their journey. As others have mentioned upthread, what a contrast to liar Lisa. 

[Mothra]

3 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I am not a vegetarian so I could be completely wrong on this. But I could have sworn I have heard Dr Now say that part of the issue with too many veggies and not enough protein or using other sources for protein than is on his ‘list’ can be an issue because of the size of their stomach. In order to prevent expansion of the stomach, i.e undoing the surgery that he often talks about, they have to get their nutrients very efficiently to fit into the smaller stomach. I just wonder if lots of veggies and alternative proteins aren’t as efficient for those who have had the surgery. Rather than the idea that Dr Now is anti-vegetarian as a concept. 

You put it much better than I did.  This was exactly what I was wondering about.

[TVbitch]

I thought they were both pretty well spoken. Doug clearly had validation issues, but the therapist is a good one and they can work on it. Even Dr. Now, who does not baby anyone, picked up on that and sort of changed his approach at the next appointment, adorably trying to give Doug extra encouragement. 

The therapist was great. Pointing out that Doug's only pastime for many years was using and he was going to need to work on filling that absence. As an addict myself, I can relate that this is sometimes harder to cope with than the actual letting go of your drug. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by TVbitch

[Ivylady]

1 hour ago, Colleenna said:

I can tell you (mostly because I just went in my freezer and looked at the package) that one Boca burger --- the flame grilled, not the vegan --- contains 15 grams of protein and 5 grams of carbs, at 120 calories. It's roughly the same size as a quarter-pound burger AFTER COOKING. 

3 ounces of extra firm tofu contains 8 grams of protein and 2 grams of carbs. 

I hate to say it, but I think Dr. Now has a blind spot about vegetarianism.

Here's the thing...you can get 50-100% more protein from grass-fed or lean beef of the same size (22-31 g based on the USDA). That's the issue. Dr. Now is all about maxing out their protein intake. Also, I'm sure it'd be different if Doug was in the maintenance phase, but he's still in weight loss. He needs to stick to the plan because we all saw what happened when he didn't. 

[aliya]

4 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

I just wonder if lots of veggies and alternative proteins aren’t as efficient for those who have had the surgery. Rather than the idea that Dr Now is anti-vegetarian as a concept. 

There are tons (no pun intended) of veg bariatric (pre & post) boards and support groups online. Many people stay veg as they deal with weight.  I don't know what an 'alternative protein is.' There may be 'alternatives to meat,' stuff that looks like meat but isn't, as far as protein, there's protein in almost everything. When I eat, as a veg*n, I don't look for alternative protein, I look for food and consider its protein content.

The doc from 'Big Medicine' wrote 'Proteinaholic' in which he suggests that we stop looking at single nutrients and consider all the nutrients you get from eating a well-balanced diet. In his case, he's talking about plant-centered. I think most well-informed veg*ns would be familiar with where he's coming from. I liked the book, but didn't find a lot of new info. It would be a good source, however, for someone new to eating less or no meat and who is scared they won't get their protein. I have to laugh at some of the food labels these days - you 'd think that protein was the only nutrient you needed. Americans don't have that problem. It's highly unlikely you'll ever run into someone with Kwashiorkor.

I didn't mean to start a big discussion about veg*nism here, I was just surprised to see Dr Now being so dismissive. At the very least, he could have told Doug to lay off the bread and drink a couple of protein shakes. 

I learned about this way of eating from Dr Neal Barnard, who has peer-reviewed work giving middle-aged diabetics a vegan diet as opposed to the ADA diet. I'm appreciative, though I have learned over time I need do a variation that doesn't include so many carbs. 

Someone posted yesterday that Dr Now wanted Doug to go back to the diet because Doug was making changes as a way of giving in to his addictive nature. Maybe. I still would have liked to see some respect. There are overweight people who are vegetarian because of their religion. Would he make those people eat meat? 

[MrHufflepuff]

I wonder if someone had come in at the beginning and said that they were vegan or vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons, if Dr. Now would have been less dismissive.  Doug's reason was that he was eating vegetarian for health reasons, which is just a bunch of stupid.  He picked a vegetarian diet that didn't meet any bariatric goals and he didn't even run it by Dr. Now before he changed his diet.  That's not the behavior of someone who is concerned about their health.  On top of that, he was gaining weight.  A 400 lb person who's gaining weight isn't eating with health goals in mind.  I'd be dismissive of Doug too.  

[3girlsforus]

4 minutes ago, MrHufflepuff said:

I wonder if someone had come in at the beginning and said that they were vegan or vegetarian for ethical or religious reasons, if Dr. Now would have been less dismissive.  Doug's reason was that he was eating vegetarian for health reasons, which is just a bunch of stupid.  He picked a vegetarian diet that didn't meet any bariatric goals and he didn't even run it by Dr. Now before he changed his diet.  That's not the behavior of someone who is concerned about their health.  On top of that, he was gaining weight.  A 400 lb person who's gaining weight isn't eating with health goals in mind.  I'd be dismissive of Doug too.  

I agree. Dr. Now had no reason to be respectful of his new diet. It wasn’t healthy and he was gaining weight. Doug clearly wasn’t becoming a vegetarian for religious reasons and wasn’t a vegetarian when the process started so he shouldn’t feel the need to try to work with him on this whim. 

[kicotan]

Re: the vegan/vegetarian thing:

My doctor told me my gastric problems were because I was allergic to red meat.  So I went full on vegetarian for 5 years.  I was a vegetarian (no meat, but still dairy) when I was pregnant with my oldest daughter.  She did not eat any meat until she was 5 (thanks to an asshole babysitter) and was perfectly healthy without it.  Back then we didn’t have “fake meat” like Gardein or Boca in the store.

She voluntarily gave up eating meat at 13 after being disgusted with the slaughterhouse practices, and has maintained a vegan diet ever since~she’s 30.  Getting enough protein from vegetable, nut and grain sources is NOT hard.  What’s hard is when you try to make it taste or look like meat.

Humans are omnivores ~ we don’t necessarily need meat for protein.

[Colleenna]

3 hours ago, Ivylady said:

Here's the thing...you can get 50-100% more protein from grass-fed or lean beef of the same size (22-31 g based on the USDA). That's the issue. Dr. Now is all about maxing out their protein intake. Also, I'm sure it'd be different if Doug was in the maintenance phase, but he's still in weight loss. He needs to stick to the plan because we all saw what happened when he didn't. 

Doug's issue (to me) wasn't the vegetarianism. It was because he was eating SO. MANY. CARBS. 

I did learn something, though, that carbs act like dopamine. That certainly explains why I find them so addictive.

[dahling]

In the end, everybody has to do what works for them. Anecdotal evidence really varies. My mother was a vegetarian for 25 years for religious reasons, and considers it the worst mistake she ever made for her health. An utter disaster.  I'm not surprised Dr. Now called BS on it, especially since Doug was only doing it for the bread. 

I also had a light bulb moment when Dr. Now pointed out that Doug was feeling better because he was ingesting his drug of choice which caused his body to release dopamine.  Yep, those carbs do feel good when they go down. Pre-weight loss, I once licked a bit of frosting off my finger (as a precursor to the cake I was about to eat) and realized that I actually felt something like an electric jolt as the frosting hit my tongue and went down the gullet.  I had a moment of self awareness, thinking that that probably wasn't...um...normal, and did I really want to live the rest of my life as a slave to that sensation? 

[Bonzie]

Doug was so tedious. The lies, the denial, and unwillingness to face up to stuff. How come most of the men are big fat whiny babies? The women, at least, vary.

I was happy for his wife. 100 lbs in one year is impressive.

[Colleenna]

I really liked the therapist in Doug's episode. She went to the heart of the matter. I found her strong and capable. 

[MrHufflepuff]

14 hours ago, kicotan said:

Getting enough protein from vegetable, nut and grain sources is NOT hard.  

Depends what you mean by "hard."  If you eat meat, you get complete proteins.  If you're not eating meat, then you have to make sure that you're getting complete proteins, either by mixing and matching incomplete vegetarian proteins or by selecting one of the vegetarian sources of complete proteins.  I don't think it's hard, but it is something that 20 years ago in the US required some education to do properly. 

Plus, Vitamin B12 is rare in plants (a few types of mushrooms have it and certain types of yeast).  Nowadays, the packaged meat substitutes (like the veggie burger patties) are usually designed to give you a complete protein and are usually fortified with B12, so it's easy.  And you can also get B12 from a multi-vitamin. 

But it's also very easy to fall into the trap of not getting complete proteins and not getting your B12 if you don't do a vegetarian/vegan diet properly.

[kicotan]

47 minutes ago, MrHufflepuff said:

Depends what you mean by "hard."

Indeed.

I’m saying it doesn’t take a Masters degree in mathematics to do the calculations necessary to stay within your daily calorie limitations and combine complimentary proteins from non-meat sources in order to get the correct nutritional value from your meals.

Even if you add in B12 and iron supplements to your daily regimen because you know going in that the easy complete meat proteins are providing that without any thought or effort on your part, it still isn’t that hard.

Doug acted like if he just took meat out of his diet it would be beneficial to his health and weight loss goals-easy.

Actually educating oneself about a healthy vegetarian or vegan diet whereby one isn’t deprived of complete proteins, iron or B12 requires a bit of effort, but certainly isn’t hard, unless your definition of hard = spending some time reading & comprehending information about your nutritional needs that is freely published on the internet.

[IvySpice]

I would find it very hard to be a vegetarian AND avoid carbs AND avoid bulky foods AND live in Wichita Falls, Texas. That's not going to leave much. He would really have to make 100% of his food at home and carry food with him if he wants to eat anywhere else. There would be nothing on the menu at most restaurants and not much in his friends' refrigerators. Maybe a chunk of cheese. I'm sure it can be done, just as some strictly kosher people manage to live in places where they're the only ones. But I'd call that hard.

Even harder? Keeping infant twins alive.

[Colleenna]

2 hours ago, IvySpice said:

I would find it very hard to be a vegetarian AND avoid carbs AND avoid bulky foods AND live in Wichita Falls, Texas. That's not going to leave much. He would really have to make 100% of his food at home and carry food with him if he wants to eat anywhere else. There would be nothing on the menu at most restaurants and not much in his friends' refrigerators. Maybe a chunk of cheese. I'm sure it can be done, just as some strictly kosher people manage to live in places where they're the only ones. But I'd call that hard.

Even harder? Keeping infant twins alive.

Hard enough being vegetarian and avoiding carbs. At that, I am an epic fail.

[Aw my lahgs]

On 6/27/2018 at 11:21 PM, DC Gal in VA said:

Wow chickenella 35 pounds lost last summer, that's amazing, congrats! You did it before and I am sure you can keep "making progress" as the poundticipants say.

I think that each person has to find their own path to weight loss and weight management. I do low carb, with higher fat and protein, but I really get a lot of low and moderate carb vegetables in my meals as well as lower carb servings of fruit. I'm an omnivore btw.

Too funny seeing your screen name along with you having been vegan!

I’d say 90% of Dr Now’s patients on the show will agree with you. Sadly, the ones who attempt to do things “their way” tend to fail miserably.

[IKnit4Cats]

Quote

Sounds like my friend's mini-doxie mix. Her mission in life is to destroy all the toys.

"Mini-doxie mix's mission" -- say that 3 times fast.

I was cheering for Doug, but I kept wishing we'd hear more from Ashley. I know, it wasn't her show. But she had WLS also, and she had her own issues to face.

Quote

People think vegetarian/vegan automatically equals healthy. Oreos are vegan. 

*Putting Oreos on my grocery list so I can be healthy.*

Quote

Somebody should tell that woman on 90 day fiancé happily ever after that “stupider”  is not part of the conjugation of “stupid“.

Every time I hear that, I hope she's exaggerating for effect. I have a friend who says, "Ex-squeeze me," and I sometimes wonder if she's forgotten the actual form that English teachers would use. So maybe she wants to say that he's a stupid-head who stupids more than Stupidy Stupid ever stupidded. I hope that's her point, anyway.

Edited June 30, 2018 by IKnit4Cats
It seemed best to put all my confused quoting attempts into one message instead of three.

[CarolMK]

I know I've mentioned this before, but I do have to wonder why, if Doug was so adamant to give up meat, he didn't consider taking meal replacements, once he cleared it with Dr. Now. I've mentioned elsewhere in these threads that I'm on a 1100-1200 calorie diet using meal replacements from a hospital based weight loss center. My doctor who runs it is a bariatician but she isn't a surgeon. This approach is considered to be the next best thing to weight loss surgery and since I've lost close to 40 lbs since mid-March, I tend to agree. The products I use all contain whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate, a few contain soy protein isolate. Each product has 27 grams of protein, 10-15 grams of carbs and 6 grams of fat, no matter what it is (soup, shakes, or pudding- the bars are slightly less). I've been on low calorie diets before, and I have to say that being on these replacements seems to satisfy my appetite better than being on just food. I do get one meal of 350 calories a day of 4-5 ounces of protein and 2 non-starchy veggies, which looks very similar to Dr. Now's bariatric diet. Maybe he doesn't have a contract with the company that supplies the products, or they're not allowed to advertise on his show. But if the patients were following it and sticking to it, he'd know how many calories they were taking in. I personally think in many ways it's easier to avoid having too many choices and having to cook while trying to lose weight. 

[Kenzie]

1 hour ago, CarolMK said:

I know I've mentioned this before, but I do have to wonder why, if Doug was so adamant to give up meat, he didn't consider taking meal replacements, once he cleared it with Dr. Now. I've mentioned elsewhere in these threads that I'm on a 1100-1200 calorie diet using meal replacements from a hospital based weight loss center. My doctor who runs it is a bariatician but she isn't a surgeon. This approach is considered to be the next best thing to weight loss surgery and since I've lost close to 40 lbs since mid-March, I tend to agree. The products I use all contain whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate, a few contain soy protein isolate. Each product has 27 grams of protein, 10-15 grams of carbs and 6 grams of fat, no matter what it is (soup, shakes, or pudding- the bars are slightly less). I've been on low calorie diets before, and I have to say that being on these replacements seems to satisfy my appetite better than being on just food. I do get one meal of 350 calories a day of 4-5 ounces of protein and 2 non-starchy veggies, which looks very similar to Dr. Now's bariatric diet. Maybe he doesn't have a contract with the company that supplies the products, or they're not allowed to advertise on his show. But if the patients were following it and sticking to it, he'd know how many calories they were taking in. I personally think in many ways it's easier to avoid having too many choices and having to cook while trying to lose weight. 

I don't think Doug cared all that much about eliminating meat. I think his sole motivation was using a vegetarian diet as an excuse to add the carbohydrates he craved as his protein source.  

[QuinnInND]

He mentioned that he read that meat is bad for your heart, and his father had heart disease, so he figured he would stop eating meat. He indeed just wanted the carbs. Which I can't blame him for. 

[Bubbles1967]

On 6/29/2018 at 7:58 PM, Aw my lahgs said:

I’d say 90% of Dr Now’s patients on the show will agree with you. Sadly, the ones who attempt to do things “their way” tend to fail miserably.

Hmmmmmm Penny?

[cynicat]

I just caught up with this episode and had to bail halfway through.  I could't take Doug obsessing over the fact that Dr. Now called him a 'failure'. If you took a shot every time cried about it, you'd die of alcohol poisoning.  I realize it's probably a deep trigger somewhere psychologically for him and he needs to work through that, but the whining and blaming Dr. Now for him being unable to get back on track was irritating as hell.

[Caoimhe]

3 hours ago, cynicat said:

I just caught up with this episode and had to bail halfway through.  I could't take Doug obsessing over the fact that Dr. Now called him a 'failure'. If you took a shot every time cried about it, you'd die of alcohol poisoning.  I realize it's probably a deep trigger somewhere psychologically for him and he needs to work through that, but the whining and blaming Dr. Now for him being unable to get back on track was irritating as hell.

Yes!  He was so fixated on “Dr. Now called me a failure” and didn’t have the emotional strength to use it as motivation for months afterward.  He really could have used more therapy earlier in the process but almost seemed to be enjoying his little pity party.

[JunkFoodTV]

Why was this show 2 hours? I literally kept dozing off. His wife looks great though. I wish they would have done 2 hours of James K. Although I'm sure my brain would have exploded...still...worth it!

[Lunula]

Dear Show. Please stop doing 2-hour long episodes featuring only one person. Especially when that person is kinda boring.

Thank you.

P.S. Can you please send Doug a copy of the tape so he can watch it and hear that Dr Now didn't call him a failure, he said he was failing at weight loss surgery. 

P.P.S. Also please let Ashley know that I think she kicks ass.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Lunula

[aliya]

On 6/28/2018 at 1:24 PM, 3girlsforus said:

I am not a vegetarian so I could be completely wrong on this. But I could have sworn I have heard Dr Now say that part of the issue with too many veggies and not enough protein or using other sources for protein than is on his ‘list’ can be an issue because of the size of their stomach. In order to prevent expansion of the stomach, i.e undoing the surgery that he often talks about, they have to get their nutrients very efficiently to fit into the smaller stomach. I just wonder if lots of veggies and alternative proteins aren’t as efficient for those who have had the surgery. Rather than the idea that Dr Now is anti-vegetarian as a concept. 

Vegetarian food certainly is usually high volume, so you may have a point there. I'm just using the picture here that's commonly provided when speaking of food volume; not advocating the blog or anything.