S03.E23: Battles Lost and Won 2018.06.18

[iMonrey]

Quote

And I wasn't a fan of the Kara/Mon-El pairing; but now Mon-El's arc seems like an even bigger waste of space if he was just going to leave AGAIN, and he and Kara weren't getting back together.

So from what I gather, both Mon El and Winn are being written off the show. Which means I probably won't be back for Season 4. Winn in particular was one of the last real draws of the show for me. And if they're going for an "Evil Supergirl" story next, didn't they already do that? Ugh. I think I'm done.

[pulmu2]

15 hours ago, Maverick said:

So sick of the baby rabies.  But not as sick as I am of the 'I will not kill' shit.   It's one thing to have a hero refuse to kill some thug or nutjob who killed a member of their family.  It's another to build up a villain so powerful that they can't be stopped who's leaving a trail of dead bodies in their wake and the hero to put on their halo and say even evil incarnate shouldn't be killed.

And funniest thing is that Supergirl has killed before. Red Tornado (sentient robot), Non (okay, maybe he's only brain dead), Parasite and Rhea. And during this season she vaporized something like 4 White Martians with Staff of Kolar without showing any regrets.

[StaceyNotStacie]

While I love Supergirl, I’d rather watch Winn in the future. If Imra and Mon-El are no longer together, I’d like to think that she and Winn got together in the future. They had chemistry the few times that they were together onscreen. 

Overall I enjoyed the episode. There were good interactions between the characters and I thought the opening was well done. I liked that they referenced Superman in Madagascar. I’m looking forward to seeing how the next season plays out based on the final scenes. 

[JapMo]

I said on a different episode thread that if they write Mon-El off, I was going to stop watching.  Then on some other message board someone said if you are a fan of the show, then you aren't being loyal to the show if you stop watching just because something happens you don't like.  Well, I've watched this show from the beginning.  Can't say I've watched every episode clear through, especially this season, but I am a fan.  I don't fault anyone else for saying they won't watch it, but I'll probably give Season 4 a try, even though my 2 favorite characters, Winn and Mon-El, will no longer be on.  

Here are just some observations by me: 

• I didn't like that this year the show was overrun with guest stars that took up so much of the air time. 
• I like James, but of all the male characters, HE's the one who is staying?  The show totally ignored him in S2, and this season for the most part he's just there to hold Lena's purse.
• If having a baby becomes Alex's main focus, this is a mistake, IMO.
• It's also a big mistake for the show to shout from the rooftop that this is a feminist show.  It's not necessary to constantly label it in every interview.  Instead of hiring women just because, try to tell a good story and everything will follow.  In other words, show....don't tell.  This is just my opinion, but I believe it's OK for the show to mention she's a female superhero and the show is about how she deals with that.  But to eliminate or place male characters in the background for no reason other than only the women can be shown as strong is doing the exact same thing that they are railing against.  The show needs to get off the preachy kick.  OK, ending my preachy stuff.
• Get rid of CatCo, or make it relevant again.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

58 minutes ago, pulmu2 said:

And funniest thing is that Supergirl has killed before. Red Tornado (sentient robot), Non (okay, maybe he's only brain dead), Parasite and Rhea. And during this season she vaporized something like 4 White Martians with Staff of Kolar without showing any regrets.

Plus, are we trying to say that every single Daxamite left Earth without being dying from lead poisoning? Cause I'm not buying that.

Also, Supergirl gave up her "I don't kill" principle like it was a New Year's resolution to go to the gym. None of the self-doubt or sadness or conflicting emotion it should have had. I am sure MB could convey that if asked, so I put that on the directors/writers. Also, her being "Oh if only I had stuck to my no-kill policy, Mommy and Mon-El would still be alive." The two don't really have anything to do with each other. 

[mommalib]

2 hours ago, JapMo said:

Once they brought Mon-El back with a wife, that's what I began to think, too.  Whether that was how it was always planned, I don't know.  

Really?  It's never been interesting, so why would they start now?

Correction it's never been interesting to you, I have a different opinion.

[KirkB]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Plus, are we trying to say that every single Daxamite left Earth without being dying from lead poisoning? Cause I'm not buying that.

Forget every single Daxamite. Kara killed Mon-El's mom. It may have been Lex's machine and Lena who made it work but Kara was the one who pushed the button. So her speech about not killing rings hollow on that alone.

Edited June 19, 2018 by KirkB

[Wilpen]

I actually liked this finale.

I knew going in we were partially losing Winn (but thankfully Jeremy is going to be recurring, so we're not really losing Winn, we're just not going to see him as much next season), J'onn was going to leave (hopefully temporarily since we haven't heard a thing about the actor's departure), and the status of Chris Wood as Mon-El was mostly toast if you believed the spoilers and it was confirmed right after the episode aired it was legit. All of those things happened so I wasn't shocked. I'm just happy we are not truly losing Winn. Jeremy can do his Broadway stuff since his voice is like Heaven on Earth and still check in as Winn on Supergirl. J'onn will be back too. 

I teared up during so many moments of this finale: When M’yrnn said goodbye to J'onn, the mother/daughter interaction in Sam's subconscious between her and her mom (since they didn't have a great relationship but love brought them together  ), the J'onn and Alex interaction when J'onn turned over the DEO to Alex, Winn's goodbye to everyone, when everyone died and Kara had to go back in Time and change things! Tears were flowing for me during all of these moments. 

Like I said, Winn's goodbye to everyone, but especially Kara... man... Alex, too... really emotional... the James/Winn stuff, Mon-El and Kara goodbye was kind of sad too, and I do feel sorry for the shippers. They were teased all season long something was developing again between them but it never materialized fully since he's now going back to the Future, along with Winn. Winn's going to do great things.  I did like how they made Mon-El and Imra sort of open-ended. I mean, they definitely did split apart romantically but they both commented on having fun adventures together and no doubt, that will remain when Mon-El goes back.

I LOVE that Brainy's sticking around to work at the DEO. I am convinced it's going comic canon and eventually Kara and Brainy will fall for each other. Bring it on!

I knew Sam would survive. Spoilers never indicated she would, but I had a strong feeling she would. There's no way they'd torture Ruby that much, just no way. It's unclear where Sam and Ruby are going so I wonder if we'll see them again. It's open-ended. 

I liked how Reign died, good riddance. 

J'onn's went to find himself, but he'll be back. It makes sense he needs to get away given his father's passing. He needs a little time. I can relate. 

Lena lies about the rock stuff... I knew they would go there! They keep teasing Lena eventually going dark. I guess it's not happening yet but this tease certainly opens up the possibility that she's eventually going there or at least temporarily will lose her way. At the very least, it's going to cause issues between Lena/James, and certainly, Lena/Supergirl. I guess we'll see. 

James announcing he's Guardian seems as if it's going to cause some CatCo issues but I still liked that he came out. Some Superheroes absolutely need to keep their identity hidden and others, it can work revealing their identity. I think it'll work for James overall and he felt so great going there which means it was the right choice. But like I said, the CatCo thing might be a bit complicated now.

When Kara messed up and those around her died... man, Melissa was so good showing Kara's despair and pain. She was devastated. Thankfully she was able to go back in Time and change up the outcome. If there ever was a moment that going back in Time was necessary, this was it. That said, Time Travel is risky. 

I loved one of the last scenes was Kara/Alex on the couch being loving sisters who can't live without each other. Brings you right back to the beginning. Loved it. 

I wonder if we'll see Kara's mom off and on in season 4. Probably not but it would be nice. I feel like we didn't get enough time to see Kara and her mom reconnect. 

That ending was strange with the second Supergirl... Travel Time, Black Kryptonite, or Red Son. 

I liked season 3 overall. It got so much better when creepy AK and his paws were off the second part of season 3. 

I still think this show, faults and all, is a million times better than Arrow... a show I dropped in season 2. It's not as good as The Flash but I still enjoy the show overall. 

Looking forward to season 4. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Wilpen

[ketose]

Some of these guys signed on to Supergirl when it was on CBS and the paychecks were probably bigger. A CW budget and diminishing quality might have helped make the decision. If Winn and J'onn (maybe Mon-El) are recurring, they can shoot 2-3 episodes in 10 days and go back home. The show got less annoying when Calista Flockhart became too expensive and was uninterested in shooting in Canada. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Good lord, but this was an utter snoozefest.

Smallville did the black kryptonite splitting "Kal-El" ( who was CLEARLY EVUHL) from Clark. And it had a bigger emotional punch for me because Annette O'Toole's Martha did it to save and bring back Clark. And Tom looked YUMMYLICIOUS, from his Kal's bare bum to his...hmmm...um, topic?

The thing is, which Kara has powers? Because in Superman III, Clark didn't have the powers, while Evuhl Supes did. Not that I give any fucks.

And will they pair up Brainy and Kara, now that Mon-El (Chris Wood) is gone? I still have fuzzy memories of when the JLU's Kara decided to stay in the future with Brainiac 5. Though I wish she had been able to say goodbye to Clark. 

What? Can I help it if post-Christopher Reeve, the BEST iteration of my favorite DC characters are in animation? And by Bruce Timm and company?

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, KirkB said:

Forget every single Daxamite. Kara killed Mon-El's mom. It may have been Lex's machine and Lena who made it work but Kara was the one who pushed the button. So her speech about not killing rings hollow on that alone.

The person I'd responded to referred to her. Her name was Rhea. 

In any event, you can semi-justify Rhea's killing as MORTAL KOMBAT!!!

It's harder to justify killing dozens of random Daxamites if you're going to claim you just don't kill.

[KirkB]

I've pretty much avoided anything remotely spoilery ever since the season 3 finale of Xena was ruined for me back in the day and I don't keep up with casting/behind the scenes stuff for that same reason. So I went into this blind and had no idea anyone was leaving.

Sam...I am very glad she survived and will presumably be going away, because hopefully she'll be taking Ruby with her. I know Alex is focused on being a mom and that's fine but I was concerned she would be saddled with Ruby and no offense to the actress but her character annoys me.

Winn...I think I'm going to miss him more than I realize. Even though he hasn't had as much to do recently. He brought a lightness to the more serious stuff that I don't think Brainy can replace. But I'll give him a shot, even though his affectations can be a bit grating.

J'onn...I should be more bothered, but Harewood looks bored half the time and J'onn really has nothing to do, despite being arguably more powerful than the star of the show. I think both the character and the actor are wasted anyway.

Mon-El...ehh, I'm fine either way. He bugged me in season 2 but he became more tolerable for me in 3. At this point I wouldn't necessarily mind if he stayed around but I am also okay with him leaving. Chris Wood does look better with the beard though.

Edited June 19, 2018 by KirkB

[Trini]

On 6/19/2018 at 11:12 AM, JapMo said:

 I'm a Karamel fan, and I know there's not many on this site, but tough.  I'm going to rant.  Their ending was written shitty (I usually substitute an asterisk for the "i" when I write that in a post but this called for the full blown word).  The writers really dissed the fans after teasing us over the last 3-4 episodes with tons of Kara/Mon-El angsty will they/won't they scenes.  Yeah, I read the spoilers that Mon-El was going back to the future.  I prepared myself and was sure they would give their fans ONE scene where they declare their love for each other before parting, one kiss...some sign of affection.  Especially after the Mon-El/Imra scene where it seemed they were definitely breaking up.  Instead, Mon-El gives Imra, and Kara gives Winn hugs, but there's no touching WHATSOEVER in their scene on the balcony.  What the hell?  Speaking of that scene, Chris acted the hell out of it.....Melissa not so much.  She looked like she was saying goodbye to the janitor.  Maybe she was told to downplay it, I don't know.  Anyway, what a crappy way to treat the fandom.  I know there were a LOT of viewers that didn't like Mon-El, and I think the show was scared off by the negative comments, but they also had their share of fans, and the show owed it to us to at least write a decent farewell scene.  I mean, he was forced to leave at the end of Season 2, but we all knew he would eventually be back.  If he is now written off forever, I don't think they conveyed that very well in their final scene.  They should have professed their love, said they would never forget each other, wish each other a long and happy life, and kissed or hugged.  But the way they did it, there's a question mark for me...might he be back?  Did anyone else feel that way?  Stop giving hope, writers, if there's no hope.  

I am NOT a Karamel fan, but even I was surprised there wasn't at least a goodbye kiss, because they had clearly been setting up Kara and Mon-El getting back together for a while. I'm confused too.

 

On 6/19/2018 at 11:53 AM, mommalib said:

... Hopefully James will move back toward the forefront as he was the original romantic male lead after all. They could go some interesting places with the Gaurdian stuff. And with Lean possibly going evil who knows he may even get another shot at Kara lol.

She had her chance -- all that tall, dark chocolate is going to Lena now!

 

On 6/19/2018 at 12:36 PM, Stacey1014 said:

While I love Supergirl, I’d rather watch Winn in the future. ...

They should have an episode next season set in the future with the Legion. (They probably should have had one this season.)

Edited June 22, 2018 by Trini

[UNOSEZ]

21 minutes ago, Trini said:

... Hopefully James will move back toward the forefront as he was the original romantic male lead after all. They could go some interesting places with the Gaurdian stuff. And with Lean possibly going evil who knows he may even get another shot at Kara

Well with the show teasing a darker Lena.. And the fact that without winn or Mon-el  there really aren't a bunch of folks to talk too.. Maybe the show will have James and kara become closer again... Unlike many I thought they had a good energy /chemistry in season one... Moreover they made sense... Of course that was all scrapped from season two and they've barely spoken more than a few sentences to each other.. But now due to circumstances they may be forced to... Maybe I will get that scene where kara explains why she ditched him to "find herself " then immediately hopped on the mon-el train

[BooBear]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And will they pair up Brainy and Kara, now that Mon-El (Chris Wood) is gone? I still have fuzzy memories of when the JLU's Kara decided to stay in the future with Brainiac 5. Though I wish she had been able to say goodbye to Clark. 

This is the only reason I will be back for season 4. I haven't read the comic but I think Jessie Rath's Braniac is just the kind of adorkable match that the adorkable Kara Danvers needs.  I was pretty surprised at how decimated the cast was but I hope as a small reboot it gives everyone more to do. Wynn is missed but they didn't know how to use him. Never quite understood why he was off limits for Kara to want to have a romance with him. As her former BFF he was a natural choice even if she didn't realize it right away. 

[JapMo]

3 minutes ago, BooBear said:

Wynn is missed but they didn't know how to use him. Never quite understood why he was off limits for Kara to want to have a romance with him. As her former BFF he was a natural choice even if she didn't realize it right away. 

I thought Winn and Kara were soooooo cute together in Season 1.  It really disappointed me when she said she didn't have feelings for him.  Winn had a lot to do in Season 1, and a good amount in Season 2 as he learned his DEO job.  Somehow this season they turned him into a snarky little smartass, and at that point I'd say yeah, they didn't know what to do with him.  As far as James, I liked him in Season 1, but he really was wishy washy with Kara.  He pined for her, then would go back to Lucy.  He did that like 3 times.  You really couldn't blame him.  Melissa is cute, but she's never gonna take a guy away from Jenna Dewann Tatum.

Sorry, but I just don't see ANY chemistry between Jessie Rath and Melissa Benoist.  They don't even look like they fit age wise.  She looks much older than him.  

[roctavia]

I would definitely agree with many that this finale was... strange. I didn't realize so many people were leaving the cast, which is a bummer. Though they did set it up for Winn and Mon El to be back (though I don't know the gossip on why Chris Wood can't come back?  like some people are making it sound). But if the plan was always for Mon El to be gone at the end of this season, then they really did the whole situation with him poorly. I know they wanted the drama of them loving each other but they can't be together or whatever... but then why mirror Kara's dream where they kissed... why have Imra dump him to only minutes later make him go back to the future? It could have been handled so much better and actually make sense in the overall story. Or even just a better goodbye... come on! And I say that as someone who doesn't really care if she's with Mon El or not... 

Jesse Rath will be an interesting addition to the cast, I liked him on Defiance, and now he has the visual modulator thing he doesn't have to sit through all the make up stuff every episode. 

I don't like the Lena stuff... I don't want her to go bad, so her being all secretive and keeping the harun el is annoying, even if knowing Kara would flip out is a good reason to not tell her. 

I hope we see more from James next season since they've gotten rid of some other cast... it would be nice for his and Kara's friendship to be more front and center.  

But who knows what will really happen, since they never seem to do what would actually be fun to watch. 

[Lugal]

That felt kinda uneven.  The pacing was all over the place.  They had it wrapped up halfway though, but they threw in the everybody dies bit so Kara would have to go back in time and change everything.

Cool that Sam lived (and Alex doesn't adopt Ruby) but despite the fact that Sam considers Lana, Alex and even Kara like family, we'll never see her again and forget she exited, like Winn's alien girlfriend (whether you liked or hated her, she did just vanish with never a mention again)

And speaking of Winn, I'm going to miss that 1.42 intellect, but it's cool he gets to save the future.  I'm sorry to see Jeremy Jordan go.  And I like Jesse Rath and curious to see Brainy at the DEO.  Although is he going to be another character they have to sideline so he doesn't solve the problem in 5 minutes?

I haven't heard about David Harewood leaving, so I hope that means J'onn is still around.  Him operating without the confines of the DEO could be interesting, but they have more of an excuse now to sideline him from the action.  I think a lot of the Martian storylines were among my favorites on the show.

14 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Totally agree -- having both Amy Jackson and Katie McGrath on this show really helps look past the glaring plot holes.

Another agreement here.  I'm going to miss seeing Amy Jackson.

[Trini]

18 minutes ago, Lugal said:

  And I like Jesse Rath and curious to see Brainy at the DEO.  Although is he going to be another character they have to sideline so he doesn't solve the problem in 5 minutes?

*looks at show history*
I'm gonna say, 'yes'.

[KirkB]

2 hours ago, Lugal said:

And I like Jesse Rath and curious to see Brainy at the DEO.  Although is he going to be another character they have to sideline so he doesn't solve the problem in 5 minutes?

Odds are yes. J'onn and his mind reading should have made short work of a vast majority of plots, which is why he was inexplicably sidelined or missing from episodes where he would have been really useful. In Brainy's case I'd say he'll always be charging or something whenever his intellect would be useful, or else he WILL pretty much solve the plot in the first five minutes but because Winn isn't there no one in the DEO will actually understand what he says and so he'll basically be ignored, and this will probably become a running joke.

[mommalib]

6 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Well with the show teasing a darker Lena.. And the fact that without winn or Mon-el  there really aren't a bunch of folks to talk too.. Maybe the show will have James and kara become closer again... Unlike many I thought they had a good energy /chemistry in season one... Moreover they made sense... Of course that was all scrapped from season two and they've barely spoken more than a few sentences to each other.. But now due to circumstances they may be forced to... Maybe I will get that scene where kara explains why she ditched him to "find herself " then immediately hopped on the mon-el train

I think this is exactly what's gonna happen because now James will obviously be Kara's closest friend. And he's already been caught in the middle of Supergirl and Lena. Lena possibly going dark will give Kara and James something to grow closer over.

[Chicago Redshirt]

More thoughts on the episode:

It was just so unevenly done. Most of the fighting and Reign stuff was, as usual, ridiculous. But the goodbyes were heartfelt and well-done. So does that balance out? 

The witches are even more incompetent than I previously thought. And I would not have believed that impossible.

Not only did they attempt to kill Scoville for no reason, but they didn't even succeed! How can you not kill a random human if you've got Kryptonian super powers? How can you not know that you've failed to kill him? And despite having super-senses, they didn't notice him crawl to a spaceship he had never been inside and had no reason to be familiar with and activate a homing signal. (Does the spaceship have the C'lippy, the Martian help guide? "It looks like you are trying to send a homing signal. Would you like some help?") Despite having super-speed, two of them just let themselves get K-cuffed like it was nothing. If we ever see Clark again, I wonder if he's going to be cool with the DEO having Kryptonite - or a Lena-grown substitute - again. He should be considering in three years or less, the world has faced existential threats from rogue Kryptonians. 

Remember when Reign (with only her inherent powers) kicked Kara's ass up and down the block? And then again when she easily held her own against Kara and the rest of the crew? Reign in the latest episode seemed to pose little threat. Even when she was spinning around and spraying heat vision, it seemed like it was just fiat and any of the characters could have used their superspeed to dodge if they half-tried.

I've never seen writers seem to get as bored of their Big Bad as these have seemed to get bored of Reign. 

I am glad that two of my predictions for the season did not come true. I thought that Papa J'onn was going to be a victim of Reign, thus enraging him with a thirst for vengeance that Supergirl would have to calm him down from. And I also thought that Sam would die in stopping Reign, prompting Alex to adopt Ruby and having her annoying-brat her way across various episodes and take time from characters I would like to see. Hopefully we don't see either Sam or Ruby going forward. 

I don't think back in Season One I would have guessed that I'd be said to see Winn go. Back then, the character was kind of creepy in his crushing and emotional blackmail of Kara. (Be my girlfriend or I might become a psychokiller like my dad). I'm glad that the character moved on. Hopefully Brainy will be a decent substitute.

As long as the CW is going to have so many superhero shows, I'd be down for a Legion series. 

[Dobian]

21 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

What I'm having trouble understanding is why the witches wanted to terraform Earth, a perfectly habitable planet, to be like Krypton, a basically uninhabitable planet without the protection of domes. (At least that's how it's seen on the Krypton show.)

Because the writers thought that terraforming Earth sounded really badass.  Well thank goodness Supergirl stopped Selena and her gang, the planet is now saved from these mean girls cyberbullying teenagers around the globe on FB, Instagram, and Twitter.  These are truly the worst villains I have ever seen.  The writers couldn't even be bothered to come up with an interesting final confrontation, the whole thing felt rushed and anti-climactic.  It was over before they were barely into the second half of the episode. 

So J'onn, Winn, and Mon'El are completely off the show now I guess (except for maybe the occasional guest appearance).  Three main male characters gone, means next season is going to be a real chickfest.  At least Alex is head of the DEO, I liked that outcome.

[JapMo]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I've never seen writers seem to get as bored of their Big Bad as these have seemed to get bored of Reign. 

Well, think about it.  They took on an enormous task for themselves.  It wasn't just Reign that was connected to this whole thing....not only did they create Reign, they also created an entire life including backstory on Sam, Ruby, and to a lesser degree Pestilence and the other two, which I forget their names now.  That's a lot of  characters that were involved in the whole Reign storyline.  People complained about DeVoe on Flash, but it was just him and his wife.  In this you had the witches, the whole cult thing and Sam's foster mother that the writers piled in to the clown car.  You'd have to assign one, two writers at most to focus on nothing but the Reign characters, and you might have been able to pull this off.  But when you have an ensemble writing team who has so many other distractions including appointing themselves the voice of feminism and politics, then you can see why they got bored and this story became so scattered.

[KirkB]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Remember when Reign (with only her inherent powers) kicked Kara's ass up and down the block? And then again when she easily held her own against Kara and the rest of the crew? Reign in the latest episode seemed to pose little threat. Even when she was spinning around and spraying heat vision, it seemed like it was just fiat and any of the characters could have used their superspeed to dodge if they half-tried.

I know. I think the problem is they wanted to go to their mid-season break with a cool cliffhanger so they had Reign so grossly overpower Kara and leave her on the edge of death for shock value. Not taking into account the narrative question of "Where do you go from here?" Having your villain initially be stronger than your hero is fine, it gives the hero a reason to work harder and find the strength within themselves to overcome their limitations and blah blah...we all now how that works. But they made Reign SO powerful that not only did she hand Kara her ass she was able to fight Kara, J'onn, Mon-El, Imra, Brainy and the Legion ship, all at the same time and barely even break a sweat. There was no way for Kara to overcome that. They made her too strong too soon. And then they added two more World Killers for what as far as I can tell is no reason, since one should have been more than enough. Which meant for the whole second half of the season why Reign, let alone Purity and Pestilence, didn't bother to show up or snap Kara and the others in two whenever they fought. Then they dismiss the other two, giving their power to Reign making her even stronger, and yet she still can't even manage to kill anyone except Sam's mom. Then the get rid of Reign, bring her back in her pure, no weaknesses form, and she is out of most of the fight until the end, and even then she doesn't kill anyone until Kara throws her into the lava thing (which is weird that it killed her, didn't she fly out of it earlier?) and even then it's accidentally with her heat vision.

[Dobian]

3 hours ago, JapMo said:

Well, think about it.  They took on an enormous task for themselves.  It wasn't just Reign that was connected to this whole thing....not only did they create Reign, they also created an entire life including backstory on Sam, Ruby, and to a lesser degree Pestilence and the other two, which I forget their names now.  That's a lot of  characters that were involved in the whole Reign storyline.  People complained about DeVoe on Flash, but it was just him and his wife.  In this you had the witches, the whole cult thing and Sam's foster mother that the writers piled in to the clown car.  You'd have to assign one, two writers at most to focus on nothing but the Reign characters, and you might have been able to pull this off.  But when you have an ensemble writing team who has so many other distractions including appointing themselves the voice of feminism and politics, then you can see why they got bored and this story became so scattered.

The problem was that Reign herself was a completely uninteresting villain.  Her whole "Crush, Kill, Destroy" mantra had zero substance behind it.  There was no meaning or explanation behind Reign and what made her tick.  She was a walking cliche.  She may as well have just been an inanimate thing like a planet-destroying bomb they had to diffuse.

[BaggythePanther]

Quote

Anyway, what a crappy way to treat the fandom.  I know there were a LOT of viewers that didn't like Mon-El, and I think the show was scared off by the negative comments, but they also had their share of fans, and the show owed it to us to at least write a decent farewell scene. 

It’s funny, last season I hated Mon-El and was happy to see him go, but his goodbye scene with Kara made me cry. This season, I’ve actually liked Mon-El better but his final(?) good-bye scene with Kara was flat and a bit awkward. I do feel bad for Karamel fans because last season showed that MB and CW are capable of much better.

17 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Well with the show teasing a darker Lena.. And the fact that without winn or Mon-el  there really aren't a bunch of folks to talk too.. Maybe the show will have James and kara become closer again... Unlike many I thought they had a good energy /chemistry in season one... Moreover they made sense... Of course that was all scrapped from season two and they've barely spoken more than a few sentences to each other.. But now due to circumstances they may be forced to... Maybe I will get that scene where kara explains why she ditched him to "find herself " then immediately hopped on the mon-el train

 

I hope Kara and James don’t get back together. The way she ditched him then hopped on the “Mon-El train” was borderline offensive and he deserves better. I also doubt we’ll get that conversation because I don’t think the writers could come up with a reasonable in-show explanation.

 

30 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I know. I think the problem is they wanted to go to their mid-season break with a cool cliffhanger so they had Reign so grossly overpower Kara and leave her on the edge of death for shock value. Not taking into account the narrative question of "Where do you go from here?" Having your villain initially be stronger than your hero is fine, it gives the hero a reason to work harder and find the strength within themselves to overcome their limitations and blah blah...we all now how that works. But they made Reign SO powerful that not only did she hand Kara her ass she was able to fight Kara, J'onn, Mon-El, Imra, Brainy and the Legion ship, all at the same time and barely even break a sweat. There was no way for Kara to overcome that. They made her too strong too soon. And then they added two more World Killers for what as far as I can tell is no reason, since one should have been more than enough. Which meant for the whole second half of the season why Reign, let alone Purity and Pestilence, didn't bother to show up or snap Kara and the others in two whenever they fought. Then they dismiss the other two, giving their power to Reign making her even stronger, and yet she still can't even manage to kill anyone except Sam's mom. Then the get rid of Reign, bring her back in her pure, no weaknesses form, and she is out of most of the fight until the end, and even then she doesn't kill anyone until Kara throws her into the lava thing (which is weird that it killed her, didn't she fly out of it earlier?) and even then it's accidentally with her heat vision.

The end of this season was really messy. It seemed like something changed somewhere because things were added were quickly dismissed. I’m also salty that Reign lost her original motivation. Supergirl and Reign were headed towards a Daredevil/Punisher dynamic but that was lost and she just became a pawn in someone else’s plan. 

 

Also, I’m disappointed that they never had a Winn/Felicity/Cisco team up during the crossover and that’s much less likely with JJ down to recurring.

[statsgirl]

46 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

I hope Kara and James don’t get back together. The way she ditched him then hopped on the “Mon-El train” was borderline offensive and he deserves better. I also doubt we’ll get that conversation because I don’t think the writers could come up with a reasonable in-show explanation.

This is me.  I shipped them in season 1 but now I think James deserves better.

This season James had a real relationship with Lena, one with maturity, communication and compromise. As an adult relationship, it matches J'onn/M'yrnn and Alex/J'onn.  Meanwhile, on top of telling James last season that he's not good enough because he's human and then immediately jumping into bed with Mon El,  Kara's been pretty self-centred and immature all season, and that bizarre "I can't kill ... but I'm going to turn back time to get what I want"  just reinforces it.  Also on these shows where it's all about the hero! hero!  the love interest gets short shrift (look at poor Iris on The Flash, she's The Love Interest and little else). Kara is the star of the show but I don't want James to be her arm candy.

Hopefully Lena won't turn evil and there will be more story at Catco next season where James is the boss. He deserves better than to be Kara's plus one.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Because the writers thought that terraforming Earth sounded really badass.  Well thank goodness Supergirl stopped Selena and her gang, the planet is now saved from these mean girls cyberbullying teenagers around the globe on FB, Instagram, and Twitter.  

Although, after the the super heroes managed to stop the city from shaking and flew in to take their bows before an appreciative, clapping crowd, you have to wonder. Who's going to clean all of this up? The city is in ruins, every building is cracked and crumbled from top to bottom, and it will cost untold billions to repair the infrastructure. So, thanks a lot, super heroes, but wouldn't the earth be far better off if they didn't constantly have to deal with aliens fighting amongst themselves and ruining their cities in the process?

I think this speaks to the far more realistic story arc of Season 1 where a lot of Earth's population was anti-alien, and you can certainly appreciate their perspective after an episode like this one.

[mommalib]

43 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This is me.  I shipped them in season 1 but now I think James deserves better.

This season James had a real relationship with Lena, one with maturity, communication and compromise. As an adult relationship, it matches J'onn/M'yrnn and Alex/J'onn.  Meanwhile, on top of telling James last season that he's not good enough because he's human and then immediately jumping into bed with Mon El,  Kara's been pretty self-centred and immature all season, and that bizarre "I can't kill ... but I'm going to turn back time to get what I want"  just reinforces it.  Also on these shows where it's all about the hero! hero!  the love interest gets short shrift (look at poor Iris on The Flash, she's The Love Interest and little else). Kara is the star of the show but I don't want James to be her arm candy.

Hopefully Lena won't turn evil and there will be more story at Catco next season where James is the boss. He deserves better than to be Kara's plus one.

Your right James does deserve better but it feels like his relationship with Kara is incomplete as if something was left hanging in the air. But quite frankly I haven't really liked Kara since season 1. She had become so self absorbed and preachy and that's not a version of her I would want James with.

[UNOSEZ]

9 minutes ago, mommalib said:

Your right James does deserve better but it feels like his relationship with Kara is incomplete as if something was left hanging in the air. But quite frankly I haven't really liked Kara since season 1. She had become so self absorbed and preachy and that's not a version of her I would want James with.

I'm kinda the same.. I'm not saying I want them together... And the version of kara that exists right now.. I'm not too much of a fan of hers.. But I'm still salty from how he was dumped at the beginning of season 2... And sure he kinda started and stopped with her while he was figuring out his stuff with Lucy.. But they had finally chosen each other.. And then boom... So maybe they don't need to pair up.. But I would like more convos... Good convos.. Open and honest.. Where he pushes her and vice versa... Winn and Mon-el being gone... J'onn on a walkabout Alex with a new job and lena possibly going dark.. Kinda forces the two of them back into each others orbits.. How it goes from there is who knows.. But it's still a cw show abd relationship drama is their bread and butter... And the Heroine and her increasingly Shady friend from a super villian family both having feelings for the handsome guy between them seems right up the Alley 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 6/18/2018 at 9:12 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Alex's storyline could've been a bit better if she had gone through some near death experience. But I love that Alex goes "I want to step back and start my life" so J'onn goes "no...I want to start MY LIFE, and you take MY PLACE!"

That was funny.  I'm also surprised that it never came up that J'onn has no one to transmit his memories to when his time comes. Mars history ends with him.

On 6/18/2018 at 9:12 PM, Primal Slayer said:

But the entire fight scene with her and everyone was lackluster, it needed way better choreography. But we had some people die because it is a battle and then that? Supergirl doesnt even mourn them because she knows she can just go back in time so the scene carries zero weight.

I thought it was weird that she didn't run to Alura's body.  And how did Reign's heat vision kill Alura and Mon-El when the witch's heat vision didn't kill Coville?

On 6/18/2018 at 9:12 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Kara goes back in time just so they could Wicked Witch her? Throw some water on her and she melts.

The forcing her to drink scene looked so fake.  Just drip the water in her mouth!

On 6/18/2018 at 9:14 PM, Lady Calypso said:

James outed himself as Guardian and will definitely run into trouble as CatCo James and as Guardian James

 

On 6/19/2018 at 1:44 AM, statsgirl said:

Unlike Star City, National City doesn't have an anti-vigilante law does it?  So James could still continue to run CatCo, like Lena runs her Corp while spending all her time being a scientist.

Now everyone who works at CatCo is a potential kidnap victim.  As are all of James' friends and acquaintances.  Won't the villains be dropping in, looking for revenge?  It will be worse than Alex's stalker.

On 6/18/2018 at 9:46 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

Lena had to hear when Alura called Supergirl "Kara Zor-El" or Supergirl reminisced with Winn about telling him who she was and him making her suit, right? Right? No? Ok, then..

Yes.  That whole set up is just ridiculous.

On 6/18/2018 at 9:55 PM, statsgirl said:

Mon El studied Greek mythology in his months on Earth? Good to know.

I had the same thought!

On 6/19/2018 at 12:52 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

How come Kara demanded that Winn find her a disruption in order to travel through time --- only to simply fly straight up without Winn even saying a word to her.  Who knew that there was a disruption directly above National City all this time ?

Allura has been on Earth all of 5 minutes and yet has somehow mastered all her newly acquired superpowers in no time at all.  WTF ?

Yes to the first, and how was her heat vision aim so good while also flying?  It should have been closer to Reign's death throes heat vision.

On 6/19/2018 at 11:12 AM, JapMo said:

They should have professed their love, said they would never forget each other, wish each other a long and happy life, and kissed or hugged. 

I don't think Kara would do that; Mon-El was still a married man. A hug would have been ok.  In the last few episodes Kara kept saying how comfortable she was around Mon-El and how she could be herself.  In the episode where they first went to Argo City, she basically told him that she was over him.  I think we're meant to think that she is no longer in the same place she was at the beginning of the season when she had her dream about him and their parting was still fresh.

Edited June 21, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[AudienceofOne]

44 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

 I think we're meant to think that she is no longer in the same place she was at the beginning of the season when she had her dream about him and their parting was still fresh.

I personally liked her "I idealised my memory of you because I thought you died but you were actually a really shitty boyfriend speech".

Edited June 21, 2018 by AudienceofOne

[BaggythePanther]

6 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

But it's still a cw show abd relationship drama is their bread and butter... And the Heroine and her increasingly Shady friend from a super villian family both having feelings for the handsome guy between them seems right up the Alley 

For the love of all things holy No. Love. Triangles.

 

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Now everyone who works at CatCo is a potential kidnap victim.  As are all of James' friends and acquaintances.  Won't the villains be dropping in, looking for revenge?  It will be worse than Alex' stalker.

Now I want an episode where someone kidnaps Lena and Kara. Would Kara use her powers to get them out or hold back just to keep her secret?

[Rushmoras]

On 2018-06-19 at 4:03 AM, opus said:

I'll just sit here quietly till someone smarter than me comes along and explains the ending.

Harun-El separated Kara when she was using it. Short explanation. I guess, we will get Power Girl (without big boobs) in S5?

Edited June 21, 2018 by Rushmoras

[ketose]

22 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Now everyone who works at CatCo is a potential kidnap victim.  As are all of James' friends and acquaintances.  Won't the villains be dropping in, looking for revenge?  It will be worse than Alex's stalker.

They kind of used up that trope when Non brainwashed people at CatCo to jump out the window and Alex to try killing Kara.

[MarkHB]

9 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Short explanation. I guess, we will get Power Girl (without big boobs) in S5?

Comics lore re: Black Kryptonite

Spoiler

Evil Supergirl is also a possibility.

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Comics lore re: Black Kryptonite

  Hide contents

Evil Supergirl is also a possibility.

Man, I hope not. Even when Smallville did their take, Kal wasn't really bad; he was just an unfeeling, unemotional empty shell, who was spouting the words of that show's version of Jor-El, who until the series finale, was a raging asshole. And hasn't this show stolen used enough of Clark/Supes' stories for Kara/Supergirl? There has to be a lot of stories to mine from just Supergirl--she's been around  a long time.

Edited June 22, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[MarkHB]

I will say that we do have a no-spoilers Speculation Thread just waiting to be posted in! 

[Ravenya003]

Late to the party, but here goes:

Well, I'm glad the writers realized that adultery wasn't a good look for their feminist heroine. That said, I don't really understand the point of Mon-El's return or the story he got with Kara. Wouldn't it have been better for him to come to the conclusion that his time with Kara had passed and he'd since fallen in love with his wife? It would have been suitably bittersweet, demonstrated that Mon-El has become a better man, and even lent Kara some much needed maturity. 

As it is, the Kara/Mon-El shippers are pissed off that they've broken up again, and the anti-Mon-El crew are irritated that they had to spend another whole season with him for no good reason. Way to alienate both sides of your fanbase, writers. And Imra sure as hell got a raw deal: she sets her husband free to pursue his ex-girlfriend, then he decides to return to the future anyway, despite all but admitting that he's still in love with Kara. That's gonna be an awkward trip back. 

It cracked me up that Kara didn't want to kill Reign. Putting aside what everyone else has already said (she's killed before, it's justified if innocent lives are at stake), it's just plain funny that Kara can't kill Reign ... but she CAN trap her in limbo where she'll be tortured by the horrible spirits who live there for all eternity. What a relief!

James was wasted this season, which sucks because there could have been a really interesting story to tell about how he goes about running Catco - specifically how a black man is in control of the narrative that's spread regarding Supergirl and her relationship to all sorts of different cultural/political/economic issues. There could have been so many fascinating conversations between the two of them about how they were going to sell Supergirl's latest escapade to the public, how they could portray it to their best advantage, what they should share and what they should withhold, the ethical implications of that, and so on. And this show loves being topical, so I'm sure they could have made some sort of point about fake news and/or the responsibilities of journalism.

Lena was the high-point of the season, and as cliched as the whole "she dislikes Supergirl but is best friends with Kara" is, at least it's a cliche for a reason. There's some juicy potential to be mined there; I just hope it doesn't lead to Lena going Dark Side. For Katie McGrath's sake at least, as she already had to play out that storyline in "Merlin". (And it was crap there too).

It was nice seeing Anjali Jay (Selina) again - I had such a massive crush on her back when she appeared in the BBC's Robin Hood.

Hey, whatever happened to Winn's alien girlfriend? Didn't see or hear anything from her all season. I guess she joined Lucy Lane in the dimension of forgotten characters.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Ravenya003

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, Ravenya003 said:

It cracked me up that Kara didn't want to kill Reign. Putting aside what everyone else has already said (she's killed before, it's justified if innocent lives are at stake), it's just plain funny that Kara can't kill Reign ... but she CAN trap her in limbo where she'll be tortured by the horrible spirits who live there for all eternity. What a relief!

 

So what happened to Reign's body ?  They actually resurrected Reign IRL, but Reign was defeated in this alternate spirit dimension, so what happened to her body ?  Did Alura take Reign's body back to Argo City with her ?

Speaking of Alura, how did Alura get back to Argo City with the 3 Kryptonian witches ?  The portal ?  J'onn's spaceship ?  Uber Space ? 
Because the way Kara acted it made it look like she would not be seeing Allura for a long time.  Can't they keep using that portal ?

And Brainy's excuse for staying in the present was just lame -- does he not remember that he has a spaceship that can travel through time at his convenience ?
The Worldkillers were worth traveling back in time, why wouldn't an AI murderer also be worthy of similarly manipulating the future ?

Also, is Coville truly finally dead ?

Edited June 24, 2018 by ottoDbusdriver

[mommalib]

On 6/20/2018 at 4:19 PM, UNOSEZ said:

I'm kinda the same.. I'm not saying I want them together... And the version of kara that exists right now.. I'm not too much of a fan of hers.. But I'm still salty from how he was dumped at the beginning of season 2... And sure he kinda started and stopped with her while he was figuring out his stuff with Lucy.. But they had finally chosen each other.. And then boom... So maybe they don't need to pair up.. But I would like more convos... Good convos.. Open and honest.. Where he pushes her and vice versa... Winn and Mon-el being gone... J'onn on a walkabout Alex with a new job and lena possibly going dark.. Kinda forces the two of them back into each others orbits.. How it goes from there is who knows.. But it's still a cw show abd relationship drama is their bread and butter... And the Heroine and her increasingly Shady friend from a super villian family both having feelings for the handsome guy between them seems right up the Alley 

It's exactly up their alley which is why I can see it playing out that way.

[AudienceofOne]

3 hours ago, mommalib said:

It's exactly up their alley which is why I can see it playing out that way.

At which point I will be out. The only thing that has kept me watching this show is that every now and then they surprise me and don't opt for the most-cliched trope. I'm one bad episode away from dropping it as it is. I've already dropped Flash and LoT and the Arrow has a lot of work to do next season to convince me not to drop it too.

[JapMo]

12 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

15 hours ago, mommalib said:

It's exactly up their alley which is why I can see it playing out that way.

At which point I will be out. The only thing that has kept me watching this show is that every now and then they surprise me and don't opt for the most-cliched trope. I'm one bad episode away from dropping it as it is. I've already dropped Flash and LoT and the Arrow has a lot of work to do next season to convince me not to drop it too.

I would be interested in seeing the reveal only, where Lena discovers Kara and Supergirl are one and the same.  I wanna see the anguish on Lena's face when she realizes her bestie and her boyfriend have been keeping a giant secret from her.  And if this is the only reason they are keeping Mehcad on, to be stuck in the middle and be referee, then I feel sorry for him.

Other than that, I'm not interested in the storyline at all.

[TV Anonymous]

Nobody comments on how a federal agency executive can just point his successor without any selection process and without any outside oversight?

Edit because choice of word matters.

Edited July 11, 2018 by TV Anonymous

[ItCouldBeWorse]

10 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

Nobody comments on how a federal agency executive can just point his predecessor without any selection process and without any outside oversight?

Successor.

Yeah, I wonder how Alex will get the pay raise that should come with her new title.