Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[Katy M]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 10:28 AM, SueB said:

Watching Racist Ghost Truck on TNT today:  You know, I don't like Cassie.  Yes, she and Dean were hot together.  But she dumped Dean TWICE.  Created scar tissue that he can't be himself and be with a woman he cares about.  I can kinda forgive the first time because "the truth is out there' speech is a little hard to take.  But then she sleeps with him again and dumps his ass all over again at the end.  "I'm a realist". Humph.  No, you didn't actually care enough about Dean to TRY and make it work.  Now maybe she didn't appreciate what she meant to him but I don't care, she hurt my boy -- I don't like her.  *flounce off in a huff*

What bugged me about it was that second dump didn't make much sense. 

First time, Dean said they went out a few times or a few weeks.  Hardly a lifelong commitment.  And she thought he was making stuff up.  I think that was a perfectly justifiable dump. 

I think it's also justifiable to not want to date him "now."  Not everybody is cut out to the hunter's girlfriend.  Probably most people aren't.  But, what made it weird for me is that the day before, she said something to the effect of "no excuses from either of us" when Dean was trying to give her an out.  Nothing had changed and suddenly she's dumping them.  If they had left out that dialogue, I would have been completely down with her breaking up with him because they were from two different worlds, she wasn't into his nomadic ghost hunting and it wasn't going to work out.  But, she should have known all that from the day before.

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't know how unpopular this opinion is, but I don't know where else to put it. Maybe they are supposed to be funny. Maybe not. But to me, this "Tonight on Supernatural" series of tweets from Dabb seem like one big fuck you to the fans who are unhappy with the soapy direction he is taking the show. Well, Dabb, fuck you, too.

[juppschmitz]

24 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't know how unpopular this opinion is, but I don't know where else to put it. Maybe they are supposed to be funny. Maybe not. But to me, this "Tonight on Supernatural" series of tweets from Dabb seem like one big fuck you to the fans who are unhappy with the soapy direction he is taking the show. Well, Dabb, fuck you, too.

Oh but the replies to Dabb's tweet are precious! I hope he reads them. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, juppschmitz said:

Oh but the replies to Dabb's tweet are precious! I hope he reads them. 

That gives me a little hope, but I doubt Dabb reads anything that isn't fawning or ass-kissing - unless you're one of a few special fans. It's funny? that the big issue seems to be that Jack is a 'child'.  Meh. That part of the story is just so muddled and ridiculous to me, it's the last thing I would have thought of. So his body just arbitrarily stopped maturing at a hunky teen age, but we're also supposed to believe he's a child, but we're also supposed to believe he's an FBI agent? Uhh, no.

[juppschmitz]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

That gives me a little hope, but I doubt Dabb reads anything that isn't fawning or ass-kissing - unless you're one of a few special fans. It's funny? that the big issue seems to be that Jack is a 'child'.  Meh. That part of the story is just so muddled and ridiculous to me, it's the last thing I would have thought of. So his body just arbitrarily stopped maturing at a hunky teen age, but we're also supposed to believe he's a child, but we're also supposed to believe he's an FBI agent? Uhh, no.

Oh, don't get me started on the ridiculous "but he's only a year old" argument *eyeroll"

But, whatever might annoy Dabb, right? (...and he'll have to scroll through a hell of a lot of bashing to get to the fawning...)

[gonzosgirrl]

Even the episode titles suck under Dabb. Optimism? The Spear? Ugh. What happened to Dark Side of the Moon, or When the Levee Breaks?

[hunenka]

Quote

In thinking about this group of hunters, I still am wondering what happened to that gang of little children in the AU hunters' camp, the ones that were enjoying Jack's shadow puppets. Not that I am particularly interested in getting to know all the hunters as individuals either, but it is very blatant to me how the group of AU hunters that Mary and Jack were living with over in the AU, the ones that Mary was so attached to that she couldn't leave them behind, have morphed into an entirely different group of people now.

[quoting @Bergamot from the Nightmare Logic thread here, just to be safe]

This is a very good point! Someone on Tumblr also pointed out that all these AU people in the bunker basically treat Jack like a complete stranger, although he's lived with them for quite some time, even saved them from an angel attack... and of course gave them that shadow puppets show. But now, because the show decided to give Jack a "woe me" storyline, he's just ignored by everyone so he can feel useless and unappreciated.

[hunenka]

On 16. 11. 2018 at 7:08 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Even the episode titles suck under Dabb. Optimism? The Spear? Ugh. What happened to Dark Side of the Moon, or When the Levee Breaks?

Not that I disagree (because you're absolutely right), but on the other hand—wouldn't it be a waste to use those good titles on crappy episodes? Remember Paint It Black or All Along the Watchtover? Such great songs, and such lacklustre episodes, even more so because of the discrepancy between their names and what they actually delivered.

It's rather fitting: uninspired episode titles for uninspired episodes.

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, hunenka said:

Not that I disagree (because you're absolutely right), but on the other hand—wouldn't it be a waste to use those good titles on crappy episodes? Remember Paint It Black or All Along the Watchtover? Such great songs, and such lacklustre episodes, even more so because of the discrepancy between their names and what they actually delivered.

It's rather fitting: uninspired episode titles for uninspired episodes.

Or the worst offender of them all.  Taxi Driver. 

 

5 hours ago, hunenka said:

This is a very good point! Someone on Tumblr also pointed out that all these AU people in the bunker basically treat Jack like a complete stranger, although he's lived with them for quite some time, even saved them from an angel attack... and of course gave them that shadow puppets show. But now, because the show decided to give Jack a "woe me" storyline, he's just ignored by everyone so he can feel useless and unappreciated.

Its the same with Sam and Dean too.   When Maggie came back, no one looked in Sam's direction.  So outside of homework, and briefings Sam doesn't seem to know or care about any of them.  We don't see Dean interacting with them.  It's almost like Sam was so desperate to be leader he tracked them all down and guilt tripped them like he did Charlie.

[BlueSapphire]

Does anyone find it a bit silly and annoying when characters who were on the show quite a while ago or who were in maybe 5 episodes ask for contributions toward their side projects, like producing albums or movies?  I can understand J2M, but Gil McKinney and Matt Cohen?

[auntvi]

I agree with you, but this is the crowdfunding age. I see internet begging everywhere these days. 

[BlueSapphire]

I know we’re in the era of GoFundMe, but when a person has a decent income and is asking for help that only benefits him/her, I find that to be just really ridiculous.  Besides Gil and Matt, I’m pretty sure Rich and Rob, Jason Manns, and Briana have also.

[ILoveReading]

I kind of have mixed feelings about it.  One one hand I think its a big excessive to ask the fandom to fund a 100k project, but on the other its a person's choice if they want to donate.

[catrox14]

It doesn't bother me since it's a creative endeavor.  If someone wants to back it, fair game. If they give perks for backing it, and they follow through on said perks I don't see the issue. People know exactly the risk they are taking.

[BoxManLocke]

20 hours ago, BlueSapphire said:

Does anyone find it a bit silly and annoying when characters who were on the show quite a while ago or who were in maybe 5 episodes ask for contributions toward their side projects, like producing albums or movies?  I can understand J2M, but Gil McKinney and Matt Cohen?

Yeah it feels like the only way I'm being asked to engage with the cast is by giving my money. And I absolutely include J² in this. Misha is the only one who tries different things. I've completely stopped following this stuff, but at some point a couple of years ago it felt like there were shirt campaigns fucking everywhere.

 

If you were in this fandom six years ago, maybe you remember the Duck Hunt that happened before season 7. It was dumb, absolutely, but also funny, and all you had to do was send a rubber duck to the production offices and they included all of them in a photo with J². I was able to spot mine in it which was cool. They put us fans first and foremost, no money or anything else involved.

Nothing of the sort happened again except the cringe-as-fuck reaction compilation from the season 9 finale. Sorry but there's nothing genuine about filming yourself watching when the point is to react as excessively as possible to be included in the video.

Edited November 19, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[SueB]

On 11/18/2018 at 9:43 AM, ILoveReading said:

Or the worst offender of them all.  Taxi Driver. 

 

Its the same with Sam and Dean too.   When Maggie came back, no one looked in Sam's direction.  So outside of homework, and briefings Sam doesn't seem to know or care about any of them.  We don't see Dean interacting with them.  It's almost like Sam was so desperate to be leader he tracked them all down and guilt tripped them like he did Charlie.

The Doylist reason is obvious: Day players, we'll only get to know them if they're going to die or need them to speak for some reason that benefits Sam, Dean, Cas or Jack's story (see woman who brought in necklace girl).

Watsonian reason: Old soldiers rarely get attached to new soldiers.  Not until they've been around a very long time.  They're just 'kid' and 'hey you' because they're canon fodder until they're seasoned.  Getting too attached hurts to much.  I think Cas & Jack don't know any better but Sam and Dean should.  Cas has seen too many humans die over the various millenias so he's maybe got a different perspective but he's always kept a certain distance except for Sam and Dean (and now Jack). Even with Mary he only engaged with her briefly when the boys were in the lockup.  Jack's a toddler/teen/something so being moody is part of the territory -- especially since Sam has benched him.  Sam, I think he's actually getting involved and we just aren't seeing on screen.  Enough to know their names and some history.  Probably not anywhere in the category of friendships.  Dean is keeping his distance because of the Michael connection and because he's letting Sam do his thing.  He's being supportive of Sam's creation of this team.  Dean knows that Sam follows his lead. Just like when Dean 'sucked the air out of the room' in a previous episode.  Sam turns to Dean and defers to him.  Dean does NOT want to lead these people.  So he's keeping his distance.  Whether they say it outloud or not, Dean doesn't want those people as collateral damage in his pending Michael fight.  And if he gets involved, that's exactly what they'll be.  

[BlueSapphire]

Why, oh why can’t Jared and Jensen figure out an end date (because I feel it hinges on them) to this thing already?  Yes, I know how they’re all just a tight-knit family and they all love each other to pieces, and of course money is a big motivator, but what’s the honest-to-god truth about keeping this show going into infinity?  I mean, I could see ending with a partial-season 15, but I’m starting to think J2 are ok with more.  It’s kinda freaking me out.

[ILoveReading]

37 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

Why, oh why can’t Jared and Jensen figure out an end date (because I feel it hinges on them) to this thing already?  Yes, I know how they’re all just a tight-knit family and they all love each other to pieces, and of course money is a big motivator, but what’s the honest-to-god truth about keeping this show going into infinity?  I mean, I could see ending with a partial-season 15, but I’m starting to think J2 are ok with more.  It’s kinda freaking me out.

They may have an end date in mind, but I don't think they want to be the ones to actually say it out loud.  I remember when Jared or Jensen, I honestly don't remember which said that they thought 300 would be it.   A couple of days later a new article came out where and suddenly that was changed to, "no I just meant that as a next milestone."

[MysteryGuest]

I haven't yet watched this week's episode, and I'm not sure when I will, I'm just too annoyed right now.  I have probably been enjoying this season more than most people, but I'm totally pissed about Lucifer.  Even though I knew it was going to happen.  Two years ago it was the bullshit with Cas, Crowley and Mary, and now Lucifer.  What the fuck was the point in even killing him off?  If you don't want to lose the actor, then make up a plausible storyline for him.  

The only way to keep him around is to do with him what they did with Crowley, and have him become a frenemy of the Winchesters.  Come up with a valid reason why he won't kill them, otherwise, it's just stupid.  He's vaporized countless people with just the snap of his fingers, yet he chooses to chase Sam and Dean around the yard, and get into fist fights with them...repeatedly?  It's asinine.  

As for Jared and Jensen, I have no problem with their sticking with the show, but I am beginning to wonder why they don't ask for more input into the storylines.  No, they're not writers, but they're also not stupid, and they have to recognize bullshit when they see it (or read it).  It's so frustrating because this damn show could practically write itself.   I'm not sure whether they simply don't care anymore, or whether they're almost hoping the show gets so bad that people walk away, so that they won't be the ones to have to make the decision to end it.  The whole thing is just so frustrating because there's no reason the show can't still be good.  

[devlin]

It’s probably just me, but I found the latest “shaving people punting things” video to be completely ridiculous. I can’t get over the amount of time wasting, particularly jp, get away with. It must be so incredibly frustrating to have to film with them especially if you are working to a schedule. I can understand wanting to have a fun set and maybe I am just being buzz kill

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

The whole thing is just so frustrating because there's no reason the show can't still be good.  

Taken to the "Supernatural Smackdown" thread.

[BlueSapphire]

With how much of a dumpster fire this show has become, nothing would make me happier than a final season of (cue the unpopular opinion) just Dean and Sam and a post-apocalyptic world.  No angels, no demons, no extra hunters, nothing.  Just the guys navigating a new world.  (I would want better writers for this, but we can’t all get what we want.)

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, BlueSapphire said:

With how much of a dumpster fire this show has become, nothing would make me happier than a final season of (cue the unpopular opinion) just Dean and Sam and a post-apocalyptic world.  No angels, no demons, no extra hunters, nothing.  Just the guys navigating a new world.  (I would want better writers for this, but we can’t all get what we want.)

Works for me.

[BoxManLocke]

1 hour ago, BlueSapphire said:

With how much of a dumpster fire this show has become, nothing would make me happier than a final season of (cue the unpopular opinion) just Dean and Sam and a post-apocalyptic world.  No angels, no demons, no extra hunters, nothing.  Just the guys navigating a new world.  (I would want better writers for this, but we can’t all get what we want.)

 

Whatever they choose to go with, since we can't fix the writing, I hope to God the CW significantly increases the budget so that at least the final season can be worth it visually (and hopefully, musically as well).

 

Otherwise say hello to your new world of reused sets and Vancouver forest with a piss filter on.

Edited December 12, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[MysteryGuest]

Not sure this is the right thread for this, but didn't know where else to put it.  Since we have time to kill before the show is back, I thought it might  be a fun exercise.  For those of you who have been unhappy with the amount of Micheal/Dean we've seen so far, how would you have done it differently?   How would you have balanced Michael/Dean and regular Dean to keep the fans happy?  I have no doubt that they could have done a better job than they have, but I'm curious as to what your ideas would be.

[Casseiopeia]

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Not sure this is the right thread for this, but didn't know where else to put it.  Since we have time to kill before the show is back, I thought it might  be a fun exercise.  For those of you who have been unhappy with the amount of Micheal/Dean we've seen so far, how would you have done it differently?   How would you have balanced Michael/Dean and regular Dean to keep the fans happy?  I have no doubt that they could have done a better job than they have, but I'm curious as to what your ideas would be.

I would have had Michael Dean interact with the main characters more.  The first episode the only character he had scenes with that we even knew was Anael...and that was it until the midseason finale (and even then it was mostly a guest star).  I would have liked to see at least 3 or 4 episodes of MD messing with our heros...just because he would know it would torment Dean.  Basically we got about 15 min in the first half of MD just gathering/creating a kind of pointless army.  It would have also been helpful if we had been more aware of the "connection" Michael had to Dean.  The 2 or 3 blurry moments didn't really convey much.

[MysteryGuest]

7 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I would have had Michael Dean interact with the main characters more.  The first episode the only character he had scenes with that we even knew was Anael...and that was it until the midseason finale (and even then it was mostly a guest star).  I would have liked to see at least 3 or 4 episodes of MD messing with our heros...just because he would know it would torment Dean.  Basically we got about 15 min in the first half of MD just gathering/creating a kind of pointless army.  It would have also been helpful if we had been more aware of the "connection" Michael had to Dean.  The 2 or 3 blurry moments didn't really convey much.

The only issue I have with this is the same issue I have with Lucifer.  There really is no reason for Lucifer or Michael to keep Sam, Cas, Jack, etc. alive.   Lucifer killed everyone who ever got in his way with the snap of his fingers, except for Sam and Dean, and it really became silly that he didn't just kill them.  I don't see how they could have had Michael interact with the rest of the crew without the same credibility issues.  He doesn't really need them, so why would he even bother toying with them?  They'd have to come up with some plausible reason why he needed them.  I just can't think of one right now.

I know that Catrox and others had suggested getting to see more of Dean's internal battle with Michael, and that would definitely have been interesting.  Michael claims that Dean was too "squirmy" when he was possessing him the first time, so it would have been interesting to be privy to that battle.  I'm guessing it's probably harder to shoot when it's just Jensen talking to Jensen, but it would have made their connection more compelling. 

[Casseiopeia]

8 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

The only issue I have with this is the same issue I have with Lucifer.  There really is no reason for Lucifer or Michael to keep Sam, Cas, Jack, etc. alive.   Lucifer killed everyone who ever got in his way with the snap of his fingers, except for Sam and Dean, and it really became silly that he didn't just kill them.  I don't see how they could have had Michael interact with the rest of the crew without the same credibility issues.  He doesn't really need them, so why would he even bother toying with them?  They'd have to come up with some plausible reason why he needed them.  I just can't think of one right now.

I know that Catrox and others had suggested getting to see more of Dean's internal battle with Michael, and that would definitely have been interesting.  Michael claims that Dean was too "squirmy" when he was possessing him the first time, so it would have been interesting to be privy to that battle.  I'm guessing it's probably harder to shoot when it's just Jensen talking to Jensen, but it would have made their connection more compelling. 

The reason I came up with this scenario is if you want MD in several episodes (for more than a few minutes) you need to involve the other characters.  My favorite Demon Dean was him chasing Sam through the bunker.  I would have liked to see episodes of Dean trying to kill/outwit Sam and Cas while Sam and Cas were trying to save him.

[MysteryGuest]

3 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

The reason I came up with this scenario is if you want MD in several episodes (for more than a few minutes) you need to involve the other characters.  My favorite Demon Dean was him chasing Sam through the bunker.  I would have liked to see episodes of Dean trying to kill/outwit Sam and Cas while Sam and Cas were trying to save him.

I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree that seeing them interact is what most of us want.  But when they make these beings so all-powerful, it does make that more difficult.  They aren't stronger than he is, and he could kill them all instantly, if he so desired.  Demon Dean wasn't at full capacity when he was chasing Sam through the Bunker, so it was believable that Sam could outwit him, with Cas' help.  It's funny, because I was very disappointed that Demon Dean's arc didn't last longer, but wasn't really disappointed to get Dean back from Michael.  It's probably simply because Demon Dean had more screen time than Dean/Michael, and I like it when Jensen's on the screen as much as possible.

[catrox14]

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

and I like it when Jensen's on the screen as much as possible.

Which is why they needed to give us more Michael!Dean or Dean fighting Michael.  Instead they gave all the meaty stuff to someone other than Jensen for Michael, like in The Spear. How much more amazing would that scene between Michael and Jack have been had it been between Michael!Dean and Jack? I would say 100% better.

[Bobcatkitten]

I would have liked to see Sam/Cas/Jack more proactively on the road hunting Michael and then wrestling with the issue of deterring/detaining him without hurting Dean. 

Definitely more of Dean fighting Michael - we literally had only 15 seconds of that. 

[FlickChick]

18 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Which is why they needed to give us more Michael!Dean or Dean fighting Michael.  Instead they gave all the meaty stuff to someone other than Jensen for Michael, like in The Spear. How much more amazing would that scene between Michael and Jack have been had it been between Michael!Dean and Jack? I would say 100% better.

Yes to this x 1000! Why have guest-star#2 have this meaty scene when you have the best actor on the show available to be in that scene? The only answer I can come up with is bitter, bitter, small Dabb et. al.

[gonzosgirrl]

Quote

Watching old episodes of supernatural is like going back to the remains of your childhood home after it’s been burnt to the ground

I saw this on Tumblr and it so perfectly sums up my feelings. 

[ukgirl71]

I've just started rewatching Season 1 (hey, post Christmas TV is rubbish, let's face it, particularly in the UK) and what I'm noticing, and missing, most, is the strength brotherly bond and the flashes of (usually dark?) humour.

[MysteryGuest]

On 12/30/2018 at 2:35 PM, ukgirl71 said:

I've just started rewatching Season 1 (hey, post Christmas TV is rubbish, let's face it, particularly in the UK) and what I'm noticing, and missing, most, is the strength brotherly bond and the flashes of (usually dark?) humour.

The humor is definitely not the same, that's for sure.  And the dialogue was so much more clever in the earlier seasons.  Ah well, at least we have plenty of seasons to watch when we're in the mood.

[Lunula]

I had a week off from work and randomly decided to rewatch the series after seeing it pop up on my Netflix menu. For the past few years, the show has been somewhat of a "background show" for us - we have it on, but we aren't paying close attention to it and are probably playing video games on our iPads while it's on. But now, after rewatching the first 4.5 seasons, I'm disgruntled at what has become of this show. 

I had literally forgotten how much I loved this show the first couple seasons. I understand that shows have to develop and change over time, but I feel like we got this Angels vs. Demons  stuff and it could've been a great story had it ever ended. But here we are, in S14 and we're still dealing with the same crap - the same adversary - the same stories - since S4. I am So.Over.Lucifer. I literally cheered out loud last season when they killed him and now he's somehow coming back? Seriously? Can we not be done with it? 

I think that's what I'm most bitter about - the complete meaninglessness of death on this show. It's funny I'd forgotten how many times Sam & Dean had died throughout the show - but I kind of understand since the show goes on and they are the two mains (though seriously, enough is enough). But bringing Mary back (UGH)? Bringing Bobby and Charlie back? Castiel has died multiple times and come back. Jack dies and comes back. What is the damn point? For the life of me I cannot understand why the show kills everyone off to begin with. So many fab characters were killed - John, Bobby, Charlie, Jo, Ellen, Pamela, Ash, Kevin, Crowley, Gabriel, Rowena...the list could go on - and I actually don't mind having them come back as ghosts, or flashbacks, or even in time-travel - but to have them come back as reincarnations of themselves just ticks me off. And the primary issue is the show cannot have any death that means anything, that creates drama or emotion, because we all know that everyone comes back. 

I just finished watching the episode when Jo & Ellen died and I cried a bit at the emotion in the scene. Now when someone dies I'm like, "Okay - how many episodes until they are back?"

/sigh

[hypnotoad]

Quote

I am So.Over.Lucifer.

I was over Lucifer almost from the moment he was introduced. Ugghh the endless Sam mind break and having Lucifer visions. Lucifer is a whiny baby and no I do not have any desire to see more of him.

Quote

but I feel like we got this Angels vs. Demons  stuff and it could've been a great story had it ever ended.

I agree. I personally would love it if all the angel crap was just gone and the show went back to being about the brothers just hunting stuff. Of course that isn't going to happen but I much preferred the show in those early seasons.

[Cambion]

On 1/5/2019 at 3:17 PM, hypnotoad said:

I was over Lucifer almost from the moment he was introduced. Ugghh the endless Sam mind break and having Lucifer visions. Lucifer is a whiny baby and no I do not have any desire to see more of him.

I agree. I personally would love it if all the angel crap was just gone and the show went back to being about the brothers just hunting stuff. Of course that isn't going to happen but I much preferred the show in those early seasons.

I'd love to see more MoTW, too.  There are so many fascinating creatures of legend that would make great eps.  And why not make up a few, too?  Keep some kind of season long arc going, but nowadays we only get the occasional ghost or vamp and it would be great to see some unusual and unique monsters again.

[Lunula]

On 1/5/2019 at 5:17 PM, hypnotoad said:

I personally would love it if all the angel crap was just gone and the show went back to being about the brothers just hunting stuff. Of course that isn't going to happen but I much preferred the show in those early seasons.

I do love Castiel. Another thing that disgruntles me is how great his character was when first introduced and what has become of him. Sure, he lives with humans now and some of that has rubbed off on him, but he was a pretty badass angel back in the day and had some truly funny moments when he just didn't get euphemism and slang speech. I guess that was one reason to keep all the angels vs. demons stuff in the show, to justify Castiel being there, but seems like we could completely do away with Lucifer vs. Heaven (or whatever it is now) and perhaps have Castiel show up for certain cases. 

I must say, I really miss Bobby. He had his issues and I know there is a certain camp that never liked him - but for me, he rang true. He wasn't perfect, didn't always say or do the perfect thing, but he loved Sam & Dean and he created a stability that I really miss. For me, killing Bobby is probably the biggest mistake the show has made. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I love Castiel and still want him involved. But can we move on from the other angel crap? I think it would be great for Cas to run heaven and be called in for heavy lifting. 

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I love Castiel and still want him involved. But can we move on from the other angel crap? I think it would be great for Cas to run heaven and be called in for heavy lifting. 

But Cas with great power hasn't proved to be a good thing in the past. Maybe he would have learned from his mistakes by now though. But yeah, if I never had to see an angel in a grey business suit again, that'd be okay. And if it means never hearing the names Lucifer (and by the end of next week, Michael) again, that'd be okay too.

[7kstar]

Really wasn't sure where to put this.  It's about past seasons, so it shouldn't be considered spoilers.  I was watching some deleted scenes and Loretta Devine who plays Missouri Moseley is telling Dean that his father would be really proud of him and then she laughs.  I'm now wondering if the smile we saw from Home was due to the Boys cracking her up and she could barely keep from laughing.  It didn't work, so I can understand why it was cut.

Now to the issue.  Mary has a deleted scene where she tells the boys she can't lose them.  So these moments that we are needing to see are getting cut...for what?  So is that the writers can't be bothered to tell the story or are they cramming in too much in the last few eps so that moments that are needed to build the audience warmth to a character is cut?  

Sure I get they need to cut but I wonder if the ones in charge are just too out of touch of building characters.  For instance, if they had cut just some section of Jack and left in other parts would we be complaining as much as some of us are?  Some of the material does lend itself to missing moments that inspire the fanfiction writers so I guess it's not all bad.

[Casseiopeia]

8 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

Really wasn't sure where to put this.  It's about past seasons, so it shouldn't be considered spoilers.  I was watching some deleted scenes and Loretta Devine who plays Missouri Moseley is telling Dean that his father would be really proud of him and then she laughs.  I'm now wondering if the smile we saw from Home was due to the Boys cracking her up and she could barely keep from laughing.  It didn't work, so I can understand why it was cut.

Now to the issue.  Mary has a deleted scene where she tells the boys she can't lose them.  So these moments that we are needing to see are getting cut...for what?  So is that the writers can't be bothered to tell the story or are they cramming in too much in the last few eps so that moments that are needed to build the audience warmth to a character is cut?  

Sure I get they need to cut but I wonder if the ones in charge are just too out of touch of building characters.  For instance, if they had cut just some section of Jack and left in other parts would we be complaining as much as some of us are?  Some of the material does lend itself to missing moments that inspire the fanfiction writers so I guess it's not all bad.

Dabb isn't very good at putting  together a cohesive episode and since Nicole Baer left the show in S11 the editing has been pretty horrible.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, PinkChicken said:

They've gotten lazy in their pandering because they think they're going to get the same number of fan points anyway (and sadly if one believes twitter, maybe they do).

IA-only I'd say that they've gotten lazy in many more ways than simply the pandering.

[BlueSapphire]

I certainly don’t think Dean and Jensen get the type of criticism here that the other actors get.  It’s still practically a taboo subject.

[DeeDee79]

50 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

I certainly don’t think Dean and Jensen get the type of criticism here that the other actors get.  It’s still practically a taboo subject.

I disagree; Dean gets plenty of criticism from both Dean fans and Dean haters. Dean girls have never claimed that he's perfect and will readily point out his flaws. I've never personally criticized the actors so I can't really comment on that. Was there a particular post that prompted your observation? 

Edited February 11, 2019 by DeeDee79

[BlueSapphire]

Nope, just my own personal feelings.

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, BlueSapphire said:

Nope, just my own personal feelings.

Oh; ok then.

[juppschmitz]

12 hours ago, BlueSapphire said:

I certainly don’t think Dean and Jensen get the type of criticism here that the other actors get.  It’s still practically a taboo subject.

Well, there is the "Bitch vs Jerk" forum. I would have thought anyone can post their grievances against either Winchester (actor?) there...

[Supafanstan]

I am not sure if this is the place, but I'll try, since it is probably an unpopular opinion. This is from the Spoilers thread where the discussion of the spoiler blog being flamed due to thoughts expressed about Destiel and canon.

17 minutes ago, Jakes said:

That is a damn shame...this fandom has too many extremists of all stripes just fighting, full of anger.  Too bad it ruins it for the big majority who are not like that.  Jess did a great job.

It is a shame. I seriously have to question the motives and mindset of all these fans who demand Destiel be made canon in the name of representation and equality, etc., yet see no irony in insisting that a character - or an actor for that matter  - be dragged out of the closet, kicking and screaming if necessary - because, subtext.  I sincerely hope these social justice warriors don't treat their real life LGBTQ friends and family this way, not just questioning another's sexuality but insisting they know their truths better than the person themselves, often openly mocking them for being in denial. I have to wonder if it isn't just because they are two exceptionally good looking men fueling this fantasy.

So I guess my unpopular opinion is that I don't believe the show is guilty of queerbaiting, because they have never once implied that Dean is gay or bi, Jensen has said repeatedly he doesn't play him that way, and Dean's love of women is legendary (and canon). Despite Misha fanning the flames of Destiel, Castiel has never shown any predilection to being attracted to the same sex, either. In fact all his relationships have been with women (or entities in a female meat suit). In my opinion, there has been no promise of a Dean/Cas romantic relationship ever happening, so ascribing one's own desires to these characters/actors and then calling your disappointment in it never happening 'queerbaiting' isn't fair. In my opinion.