Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Really? It was pretty clear to me that while Peter is a dork and a bit of a sad sack, Sarah is hateful. I recall a decent number of reviews talking about Sarah being a diva, a mean girl, and a woman who sold out for Hollywood success. I think it does have a slightly lighter touch by not making Sarah completely monstrous.

I think Segel understands that you have make it seem like there was a version of Sarah that could have legitimately fallen in love with Peter. Additionally, that a combination of Sarah feeling herself as a celebrity and Peter's complacency soured the relationship. And that there is part of Peter that didn't really try to make himself or Sarah happy. I think that's why the biggest emotional beat in the conclusion is his puppet opera. Yes, he misses Mila Kunis' character, which they admit at the end, but she gives him time to be appreciated for his work.

I don't think it's as much a double standard as Segel wanting a more nuanced view of a bad relationship. Sarah and Peter were both bad partners in different ways.

As much as I hated her, Sarah didn't come off as a diva to me (at first). It wasn't until the third act when she gets all jealous and bitchy to Mila Kunis' character that she truly became unlikable. I really hate the trope of a character getting all jealous of her ex's new relationship when they are the ones that dumped them in the first place.

But again, it just really rubs me the wrong way when female characters play the victim to justify cheating. I immediately think of Julianne Moore in Crazy Stupid Love whining "Why can't women have midlife crises?" Using the gender card as an excuse is sexist. If a guy cheats, it's his own fault, but if a woman cheats, it's because she "has needs" the guy wasn't fulfilling and so it's really all his fault? Screw that.  It SHOULD NOT matter if you're a man or a woman, you have to own up to your shitty behavior.

[HunterHunted]

32 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

But again, it just really rubs me the wrong way when female characters play the victim to justify cheating. I immediately think of Julianne Moore in Crazy Stupid Love whining "Why can't women have midlife crises?" Using the gender card as an excuse is sexist. If a guy cheats, it's his own fault, but if a woman cheats, it's because she "has needs" the guy wasn't fulfilling and so it's really all his fault? Screw that.  It SHOULD NOT matter if you're a man or a woman, you have to own up to your shitty behavior.

Except that there are precious few women's midlife crisis movies where the woman blows up her own life by cheating. Most often when a woman has a midlife crisis in a film, her garbage husband has cheated on her. It's rare to see a woman in the "man's role."

However, the film treats Julianne's character far more kindly than it would ever treat a man who pulled the same thing. Furthermore, Steve Carrell's character is treated like an asshole for sleeping with women while they are seperated. Meanwhile, Julianne's character continues to date David Lindhaagen, but David is somehow the asshole. That's the hypocrisy in that film.

[Spartan Girl]

17 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Except that there are precious few women's midlife crisis movies where the woman blows up her own life by cheating. Most often when a woman has a midlife crisis in a film, her garbage husband has cheated on her. It's rare to see a woman in the "man's role."

However, the film treats Julianne's character far more kindly than it would ever treat a man who pulled the same thing. Furthermore, Steve Carrell's character is treated like an asshole for sleeping with women while they are seperated. Meanwhile, Julianne's character continues to date David Lindhaagen, but David is somehow the asshole. That's the hypocrisy in that film.

EXACTLY. And she had no right to be upset at him for sleeping with a bunch of women when it was her that wanted a divorce. Not a separation, not "I just need some space" not even "I think we need to see a counselor", she just wanted to skip right ahead to a divorce. The fact that she seemed wishes washy about it afterward is irrelevant. Plus, you know, she cheated on him beforehand just to prove "how broken they were" which is bullshit. 

Female cheaters in movies in general are treated with kid gloves, and I find that just as demeaning as slut shaming. Equality goes both ways. Male or female, anyone is capable of doing bad things. 

[VCRTracking]

On 3/4/2018 at 3:30 PM, Spartan Girl said:

EXACTLY. And she had no right to be upset at him for sleeping with a bunch of women when it was her that wanted a divorce. Not a separation, not "I just need some space" not even "I think we need to see a counselor", she just wanted to skip right ahead to a divorce. The fact that she seemed wishes washy about it afterward is irrelevant. Plus, you know, she cheated on him beforehand just to prove "how broken they were" which is bullshit.

They want us to want Steve Carell and Julianne Moore to get back together but she cheated Steve sleeping with one woman wouldn't even things out They have to Steve sleep with a whole bunch of women in order for it to hurt Julianne just as much as she had hurt him. What I think went wrong was they had Carell's character give the big romantic speech in public to win her back but didn't have Moore apologize for cheating in the first place. We're supposed to feel she was justified because Carell is the one who needed to change.

Edited March 6, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

They want us to want Steve Carell and Julianne Moore to get back together but she cheated Steve sleeping with one woman wouldn't even things out They have to Steve sleep with a whole bunch of women in order for it to hurt Julianne just as much as she had hurt him. What I think went wrong was they had Carell's character give the big romantic speech in public to win her back but didn't have Moore apologize for cheating in the first place. We're supposed to feel she was justified because Carell is the one who needed to change.

 Well they failed abysmally because 1) I didn't want them to get together and 2) she wasn't justified.

[raezen]

While Red Sparrow has received a lot of bad and mixed reviews Newsweek is the only one I've seen flat out call it torture porn. 

http://www.newsweek.com/jennifer-lawrence-red-sparrow-rape-829511

Edited March 6, 2018 by raezen

[VCRTracking]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 Well they failed abysmally because 1) I didn't want them to get together and 2) she wasn't justified.

Also while the audience finding out the same time as Ryan Gosling's character that Emma Stone was the daughter of Steve Carell and Julianne Moore was funny, it does make me think that Stone's character was ridiculously self involved to not seem to care what was going on with her family! "Boo hoo Josh Groban won't propose to me!" How about you check up on your dad, because he's a fucking wreck right now!

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Also while the audience finding out the same time as Ryan Gosling's character that Emma Stone was the daughter of Steve Carell and Julianne Moore was funny, it does make me think that Stone's character was ridiculously self involved to not seem to care what was going on with her family! "Boo hoo Josh Groban won't propose to me!" How about you check up on your dad, because he's a fucking wreck right now!

Hannah (Nana) felt strongly enough about Ryan's character, Jacob, that she wanted him to meet her family, but she never really shared details about her parents' disintegrating marriage. She doesn't seem to give a crap about her parents or her siblings.  The break up that legit broke my heart was when Steve's character, Cal, and Jacob stopped being best friends. They shared everything with each other. Jacob told Cal all about falling for Hannah without using her name. Jacob coached Cal through dating issues only for Cal to discuss with Jacob how he still wanted Julianne's unrepentant Emily back and how he was going to go about it.

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 Well they failed abysmally because 1) I didn't want them to get together and 2) she wasn't justified.

We see Emily have some doubts about the dumb mistakes she's made, but not once does she ever take a proactive step to get Cal back. She's the living worst.

▪▪▪▪

7 hours ago, raezen said:

While Red Sparrow has received a lot of bad and mixed reviews Newsweek is the only one I've seen flat out call it torture porn. 

http://www.newsweek.com/jennifer-lawrence-red-sparrow-rape-829511

 

I don't think anyone used those exact words in the film's actual topic, but I know people were put off by the incestuous angle and 3 rapes. I'm not surprised that a critic would call it torture porn.

Edited March 6, 2018 by HunterHunted

[VCRTracking]

17 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Hannah (Nana) felt strongly enough about Ryan's character, Jacob, that she wanted him to meet her family, but she never really shared details about her parents' disintegrating marriage.

We see Emily have some doubts about the dumb mistakes she's made, but not once does she ever take a proactive step to get Cal back. She's the living worst.

Hannah even attends her little brother's middle school graduation! You have to still be really close to your siblings to do that. Yet she doesn't spare a thought to him and her little sister and how they're taking their parents' marriage falling apart!

The redheaded apple didn't fall far from the redheaded tree.

 

17 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't think anyone used those exact words in the film's actual topic, but I know people were put off by the incestuous angle and 3 rapes. I'm not surprised that a critic would call it torture porn.

 

Well, at the very least Marvel fans are going to stop saying "This is the Black Widow movie we should have had!"

Edited March 6, 2018 by VCRTracking

[UYI]

I haven't Red Sparrow and have no plans to, but after hearing what is actually depicted in this movie, I am BAFFLED that Jennifer Lawrence found doing the nude scenes in it to be empowering/something she go back after the photo hack she went through in 2014. The nudity in THIS movie empowered you? REALLY? 

Edited March 6, 2018 by UYI

[raezen]

2 hours ago, UYI said:

I haven't Red Sparrow and have no plans to, but after hearing what is actually depicted in this movie, I am BAFFLED that Jennifer Lawrence found doing the nude scenes in it to be empowering/something she go back after the photo hack she went through in 2014. The nudity in THIS movie empowered you? REALLY? 

 

Okay, every time I hear her (or any other actress from now on) use the word 'empowered' to sell a role they played my mind will go to the SNL sketch with Sam Rockwell with the Golden Globes fashion panel with no idea how their job even works any more. "She definitely looks empowered in that dress!"

Edited March 7, 2018 by raezen

[starri]

Have you had your Ugly Cry today?

[NUguy514]

The one aspect about Love, Simon that makes me a little wary is the casting of Nick Robinson as Simon.  When I read the book, Simon came across as being fairly emotional (even flamboyant), which I don't get from Robinson in the trailers I've seen (he also doesn't look anything like the way Simon is described, but that's not unusual).

Edited March 9, 2018 by NUguy514

[Danny Franks]

On 06/03/2018 at 8:20 PM, HunterHunted said:

I don't think anyone used those exact words in the film's actual topic, but I know people were put off by the incestuous angle and 3 rapes. I'm not surprised that a critic would call it torture porn.

 

Well.... There go any plans I had to see that movie. Not that I was likely to anyway. I find Jennifer Lawrence a very dull presence on-screen. But I had thought about reading the book. So that's out of the window too.

[aradia22]

Quote

Female cheaters in movies in general are treated with kid gloves, and I find that just as demeaning as slut shaming. Equality goes both ways. Male or female, anyone is capable of doing bad things. 

Do you listen to Dear Sugar? I haven't seen Crazy Stupid Love but this is my opinion in general. Sometimes people are dicks. Whether or not they have dicks. Sometimes they're selfish or self-centered and they don't care who they hurt and they're just hedonistic or narcissistic or arrogant and that's why they cheat. Because they can and it makes them feel good and maybe they think they can get away with it. There are also people who cheat because there's something wrong in the relationship and they can't or won't verbalize it. They're afraid or insecure or not getting what they need and that gets expressed by turning away from the person who is asking them to do or to be things that they can't do or be or turning to someone who boosts their ego or reminds them of their youth or whatever. This latter rationale is not an excuse. It is a reason. Either way you end up at the same place and cheating and adultery is a transgression. It is a violation of trust and an act of disrespect that could have been solved with communication. Either you ask for what you really want or you tell your partner you're not happy and you perhaps deal with the fallout and break up before going to be with another person. That is true whether you are a man or a woman. I will say that you do have to take into account that all things are not equal. If we're talking historically, women have throughout most of history had fewer resources and been dependent on the men in their lives. Their lives were more restrictive in general and walking away could mean losing your security and even your children. That's why there are SO many stories about dissatisfied women and also stories like Anna Karenina. Things are generally more even in modern stories but not always. 

[JustaPerson]

I just saw Crazy, Stupid Love and hated Emily. But worse was probably their friend Bernie's wife, who "chose" Emily in the separation and wouldn't let her husband be friends with Cal anymore. And then when they found out of Cal sleeping with other women she was all like "clearly we made the right choice." I really hope Cal stopped being friends with her when he and Emily got back together. Or punched her in the face. 

I did roll my eyes at Cal suddenly having a huge problem with Jacob's player ways when it was Cal's daughter. But that's realistic I guess, as much as I didn't like it. 

And let's be honest, all of Jacob's techniques for picking up women only work if you look like Ryan Gosling. Cal couldn't make them work, he had to be himself a bit more to pick up Marisa Tomei. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by JustaPerson

[JustaPerson]

The new Fantastic Beasts trailer reminded me that there's going to be an asian woman in the film, Claudia Kim. She was in Age Of Ultron as the Korean scientist who built Vision's body. 

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, JustaPerson said:

I just saw Crazy, Stupid Love and hated Emily. But worse was probably their friend Bernie's wife, who "chose" Emily in the separation and wouldn't let her husband be friends with Cal anymore. And then when they found out of Cal sleeping with other women she was all like "clearly we made the right choice." I really hope Cal stopped being friends with her when he and Emily got back together. Or punched her in the face.

Ugh, yeah she was the worst.

All this talk of how unconcerned Emma Stone was about her parents' marriage made me realize that with the exception of the little girl, there was not one likable well-written female character in the whole movie. They were all just the typical tropes of whiny, bitchy, crazy, or slutty -- or all four. And yet it was the darling of the critics that year. Go fucking figure.

[methodwriter85]

I thought Analeigh Tipton's character was likeable, even though she was trying to hook up with Steve Carell and gave his son nude photos of herself that she originally was going to give to him.

[raezen]

Crazy, Stupid Love is a movie I remember mostly enjoy until the last 15 minutes.  About the time of the son's graduation to the end. However I tried to watch it again not too long ago and as soon as they got to the part where the son was talking to the babysitter after she walked in on him I turned it off. I didn't remember that storyline beingso painful to watch but now it is.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I thought Analeigh Tipton's character was likeable, even though she was trying to hook up with Steve Carell and gave his son nude photos of herself that she originally was going to give to him.

She wasn't unlikable per se, but it was definitely an example of a female reduced to "slightly crazy oversexed" character trope.

[methodwriter85]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:17 PM, NUguy514 said:

The one aspect about Love, Simon that makes me a little wary is the casting of Nick Robinson as Simon.  When I read the book, Simon came across as being fairly emotional (even flamboyant), which I don't get from Robinson in the trailers I've seen (he also doesn't look anything like the way Simon is described, but that's not unusual).

 

I got back from a screening and I loved the movie. However, I didn't read the book. Movie Simon does some great emotional moments, but for the most part, he's even-keeled because he's pretty repressed. I definitely didn't find him flamboyant- Movie Simon and the way they dressed him definitely seemed like they were trying to play him as the All-American straight acting boy. Not to a ridiculous extent (they didn't turn him into a macho jock or anything) but he just dresses up like your average dude who wears hoodies and his mannerisms don't really scream as stereotypical. I actually related a lot to him- I don't read as "straight" or " gay" to anybody, so people don't expect me to be gay, but when I tell them I am, it's not really a surprise.

I definitely wish I could have watched something like this in 2003 when I was 17, and the bulk of gay movies/shows I'd seen went with one of these five plots:

1.) Angsty romances that end with a gay-bashing murder or a suicide.

2.) Angsty romances that end with the closetcase not being able to come out, thus ending the relationship.

3.) Angsty romances that end with a terminal illness like AIDS or occasionally, death by diabetes.

4.) Straight boy worship. I mean, come on. I know we've all been there, but geez.

5.) Wacky romantic comedies about hot gym bunnies living in cities who make funny pop culture references...these weren't depressing but I never did relate to the pretty hot gay club people. And let's be honest, with the exception of Trick, most of that subgenre is awful. I cannot tell you how much I haaaaaaaattttttttteeeed Broken Hearts Club, after being so excited because it had Andrew Keegan and Kerr Smith in it.

Anyway, it was nice to see something different and more akin to a John Hughes movie, if gay people were actually allowed to exist in his 80's rich preppie world.

Edited March 16, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Wiendish Fitch]

Crazy, Stupid, Love is such a popular talking point, I decided to go ahead and make a whole topic in the Movies thread for y'all to discuss it. You're welcome. :)

Edited March 16, 2018 by Wiendish Fitch

[HunterHunted]

11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I cannot tell you how much I haaaaaaaattttttttteeeed Broken Hearts Club, after being so excited because it had Andrew Keegan and Kerr Smith in it.

Wait. You hated the gay movie with all straight actors? You weren't a fan of the film with beautiful guys who are largely sexless in West Hollywood? West Hollywood?!?!

Also Kerr Smith is kind of the worst.

"Got the annual smooch with a guy," laughs the straight Smith, whose gay character laid one on another boy last May. "It's not the most fun thing in the world, but I agreed to play this role, and [producer] Greg Berlanti does want to take it that far." While he's proud of helping to break TV taboos, Smith draws the line at a once a year snog: "That's as far as I'm going to take it. I don't think teenagers need to see two guys kissing on a weekly basis."

[methodwriter85]

Well, in my defense, I was 15 or 16 when I rented Broken Hearts Club and I was too far into the haze of male puberty to really care about what the guys I lusted over were actually saying. I do think Broken Hearts Club lost me when they started playing a Sesame Street tune during a baseball game. Like, wtf? It just kept getting worse from there.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 3/4/2018 at 5:24 PM, Spartan Girl said:

But again, it just really rubs me the wrong way when female characters play the victim to justify cheating. I immediately think of Julianne Moore in Crazy Stupid Love whining "Why can't women have midlife crises?" Using the gender card as an excuse is sexist. If a guy cheats, it's his own fault, but if a woman cheats, it's because she "has needs" the guy wasn't fulfilling and so it's really all his fault? Screw that.  It SHOULD NOT matter if you're a man or a woman, you have to own up to your shitty behavior.

Moore, in particular, has made a semi-career out of these roles. Her character cheated in Crazy, Stupid, Love, Chloe, and The Kids Are All Right at the least, and in two of those movies she got back together with the person she wronged. I love her as an actress and she's beautiful, but yeah. In fact, I'll take it a step farther and say that it's because she's beautiful that her unfaithful characters come off as somehow forgivable. I've personally always had a weakness for gingers, and Moore has aged exceptionally well, as gingers are wont to do.  Not saying I'm right or wrong, just thought I'd put it out there.

On 3/6/2018 at 8:04 AM, raezen said:

While Red Sparrow has received a lot of bad and mixed reviews Newsweek is the only one I've seen flat out call it torture porn. 

http://www.newsweek.com/jennifer-lawrence-red-sparrow-rape-829511

 

I haven't seen these reviews, but I will point out that some reviewer referred to Dunkirk as "war porn". Or maybe that was Hacksaw Ridge.?

Edited March 17, 2018 by Cobalt Stargazer

[JBC344]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 9:35 AM, HunterHunted said:

Wait. You hated the gay movie with all straight actors? You weren't a fan of the film with beautiful guys who are largely sexless in West Hollywood? West Hollywood?!?!

Also Kerr Smith is kind of the worst.

"Got the annual smooch with a guy," laughs the straight Smith, whose gay character laid one on another boy last May. "It's not the most fun thing in the world, but I agreed to play this role, and [producer] Greg Berlanti does want to take it that far." While he's proud of helping to break TV taboos, Smith draws the line at a once a year snog: "That's as far as I'm going to take it. I don't think teenagers need to see two guys kissing on a weekly basis."

The always tactful Kerr Smith, :(

[JBC344]

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 10:24 PM, JustaPerson said:

The new Fantastic Beasts trailer reminded me that there's going to be an asian woman in the film, Claudia Kim. She was in Age Of Ultron as the Korean scientist who built Vision's body. 

And we are getting more of Zoe Kravitz's character for the second film.

[xaxat]

The story behind the racist responses to Black Panther in China.  (As the subtitle notes, it's a purposely misleading headline.)

Quote

In the run-up to the release of Marvel’s Black Panther in China last weekend, pundits warned that the movie could only hope to, at best, match Ant-Man’s opening in the region ($43 million). “The themes of most films with largely black casts will not be of interest to Chinese audiences,” USC professor and China specialist Stanley Rosen pronounced, assuring Deadline that the film would underperform.

And yet when Black Panther finally made landfall in China, it blew past all predictions, with a $67 million opening—up there with some of Marvel’s long-running, well-established cinematic franchises, such as Avengers: Age of Ultron, and Spider-Man: Homecoming.

This “surprise” success came despite a persistent media narrative with ugly implications, both for China and Hollywood: That Chinese racism will destroy any chance for success for a film with black leads.

[Trini]

Obviously, Black casts aren't as much of a turn-off as Hollywood thinks. I mean, it might be a given that Black audiences would be interested in Black Panther because they haven't seen a superhero movie with a Black cast, but maybe (just maybe!) non-Black audiences would also be interested because they also haven't seen a superhero movie with a Black cast?

[JessePinkman]

I hope I’m not projecting but...there’s some real colorism going on in Love, Simon. All of the black characters are played by light-skinned biracial actors. Rubs me the wrong way.

[NUguy514]

1 hour ago, JessePinkman said:

I hope I’m not projecting but...there’s some real colorism going on in Love, Simon. All of the black characters are played by light-skinned biracial actors. Rubs me the wrong way.

FWIW, the two male characters (Noah and Bram) are supposed to be biracial; they're biracial in the book and biracial in the movie.

I think it's a big positive that

Spoiler

the gay couple that ends up together is an interracial couple.  Interracial couples aren't very commonly portrayed as it is, and there tends to be quite a bit of racism among gay men, in particular.  So, I think it sends a great message that the couple we end up rooting and cheering for in this movie is comprised of two boys of different races.

[Spartan Girl]

I really hate how in some movies the woman who is cheated on is dismissed as a jealous bitch (unless of course she's the lead actress in the movie). Such was the case in Georgia Rule. The guy cheats on his girlfriend with Zlindsay Lohan, and although he's initially remorseful, he quickly kicks her to the curb just because she has the audacity to order him not to see her again -- and inlist her friends to keep tabs on him to make sure of it.

And don't even get me started on the "romance". Lindsay's character was clearly in no place to even consider a long term relationship, given how damaged she is by her stepdad molesting her. For God's sake she tried to seduce another older man, yet twenty minutes later, we're supposed to be happy that Harlan declares he'll marry her at the end. As if all her issues could be wiped away by the love of a "good guy". GIMME A BREAK.

[Dandesun]

21 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I really hate how in some movies the woman who is cheated on is dismissed as a jealous bitch (unless of course she's the lead actress in the movie). Such was the case in Georgia Rule. The guy cheats on his girlfriend with Zlindsay Lohan, and although he's initially remorseful, he quickly kicks her to the curb just because she has the audacity to order him not to see her again -- and inlist her friends to keep tabs on him to make sure of it.

And don't even get me started on the "romance". Lindsay's character was clearly in no place to even consider a long term relationship, given how damaged she is by her stepdad molesting her. For God's sake she tried to seduce another older man, yet twenty minutes later, we're supposed to be happy that Harlan declares he'll marry her at the end. As if all her issues could be wiped away by the love of a "good guy". GIMME A BREAK.

Yeah, while I don't think it's crazy for her to not want her boyfriend to see the woman he cheated on her with, for me, getting her friends to keep tabs on him takes it to a place where... look, if that's where she's going to go, dump him. The trust is gone. The idea that he's all 'well, she didn't want me to see the woman I cheated with... what's up with THAT? Doesn't she believe in trust anymore?' after being remorseful for a hot minute... no.

What's more, I think if they had the girlfriend just dump him she'd still be portrayed as an unfeeling bitch. How dare she not give him another chance! She was in a no win situation regarding that movie, I think.

[methodwriter85]

On 3/19/2018 at 1:40 AM, NUguy514 said:

FWIW, the two male characters (Noah and Bram) are supposed to be biracial; they're biracial in the book and biracial in the movie.

The Obama joke made a lot of sense in that respect, given that he's also biracial and you can really see a lot of his white grandfather in him.

Speaking of Nick Robinson, he's doing a movie where he gets a lovesick crush on a character played by Rosario Dawson:

Rosario does the interracial love interest thing a lot, doesn't she? Rent, 10 Year, and Unforgettable are at the top of my mind, but I feel like there's more.

[Perfect Xero]

2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

The Obama joke made a lot of sense in that respect, given that he's also biracial and you can really see a lot of his white grandfather in him.

Speaking of Nick Robinson, he's doing a movie where he gets a lovesick crush on a character played by Rosario Dawson:

 

Rosario does the interracial love interest thing a lot, doesn't she? Rent, 10 Year, and Unforgettable are at the top of my mind, but I feel like there's more.

Clerks II, where I admit it rather took me out of the movie to see a big Hollywood star like Rosario Dawson as the love interest of 30 something Dante.

[methodwriter85]

Zoe Saldana is also the black female love interest to the white male lead pretty often. She's been opposite Bradley Cooper, Chris Pine, and Mark Ruffalo at the very least.

[Joe]

4 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Zoe Saldana is also the black female love interest to the white male lead pretty often. She's been opposite Bradley Cooper, Chris Pine, and Mark Ruffalo at the very least.

And Zachary Quinto in the Trek movies, though he was the secondary lead.

[JBC344]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:19 AM, methodwriter85 said:

The Obama joke made a lot of sense in that respect, given that he's also biracial and you can really see a lot of his white grandfather in him.

Speaking of Nick Robinson, he's doing a movie where he gets a lovesick crush on a character played by Rosario Dawson:

 

Rosario does the interracial love interest thing a lot, doesn't she? Rent, 10 Year, and Unforgettable are at the top of my mind, but I feel like there's more.

Amazing cast and it looks like William H. Macy directed this, but it looks horrible.  I don't even understand the premise.  Barely legal kid falls for woman clearly old enough to be his mother, but his attraction is also tied to "hero worship" because she saved him during an emergency?  Enter quirky family who may be encouraging this.  Enter T.I as the bad boy ex-husband and father to her wheel chair bound teenager who looks the exact same age as Romeo.  If this cast wasn't involved I would swear this was a cheap Hallmark movie.

[afterbite]

On 3/27/2018 at 8:31 PM, Joe said:

On 3/27/2018 at 8:26 PM, methodwriter85 said:

Zoe Saldana is also the black female love interest to the white male lead pretty often. She's been opposite Bradley Cooper, Chris Pine, and Mark Ruffalo at the very least.

And Zachary Quinto in the Trek movies, though he was the secondary lead.

And Michael Vartan in Colombiana, though I'd argue that he was the white male love interest to her lead in that one. Rosario Dawson is also currently the love interest of Petra, a white secondary character in Jane the Virgin atm.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Rosario Dawson was both the love interest to Chris Rock (Top 5) and Edward Burns (Sidewalks of New York).  Rosario is multiracial herself, though.  As a fellow multiracial person once said to me, "Every relationship we enter is by definition already interracial."  Which is true, no matter who we date.

[HunterHunted]

This piece on Vulture about how female characters are first described in the screenplay is interesting. Even more interesting is how often there is a physical description of how pretty the character is.

http://www.vulture.com/2018/04/how-50-female-characters-were-described-in-their-screenplays.html

[aradia22]

I didn't go through the whole thing but thanks for linking that @HunterHunted. It's interesting what the screenwriters wanted conveyed about the characters. And I always feel like your writing can reveal something about the way you think or see the world that you might not want exposed. That's a whole can of worms to unpack someday.

One thing I picked up on in the quiz part was the emphasis on thinness and frailty. I only got 1/10 on the quiz. Somehow those are not the descriptions I would have picked for most of those characters. 

Quote

Many screenplays try to hedge their female character’s beauty, lest she seem so gorgeous as to be unattainable. Perhaps the woman doesn’t know how pretty she is, or there’s a slight imperfection added to make her relatable. The exact calibration of these female characters’ beauty begs a reference to Goldilocks: They’re hot, but not too hot.

This is the standard for female characters across mediums. I'm sure there are many thinkpieces about it. 

I mean, the Kat Stratford character has a very good reason to have that description if you watch to the end of the movie. Most of the others made me roll my eyes.

One of the comments on the article makes a good point. I'd like to see these descriptions contrasted with descriptions of male leads.

[HunterHunted]

I got 4 correct. I really would love to see it contrasted with male descriptors too.

[raezen]

I got 5 which is about 4 more than I thought I would.  I noticed that the word fragile is very popular in these descriptions.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I didn't finish the quiz, but in my defense I had to stop when it said that Leilana Pierce from Reality Bites could be president. My memories of that movie are fuzzy, and no snark towards Winona Ryder, but president?

I'm more interested in the "you're gonna love her!" descriptions, particularly for The Abyss and  The Mummy. Even Lydia from Beetlejuice is described as 'sullen and about half pissed off'', but then it follows that up with 'we like her a lot.'  Which...fair enough, but I'm wondering if a male character would be considered lovable if he was sullen and half pissed off more often than not. Just for a random example, Tom Hiddleston's Loki has many fans, but I don't know if any of them would ever call him lovable. Not and mean it, at any rate.

[HunterHunted]

Leilana being president is laughable. I wouldn't elect her president of her apartment. She'd lose in a landslide and there are only three candidates (the other roommates were Janeane Garofalo's character and Steve Zahn's character).

[Spartan Girl]

15 hours ago, raezen said:

I got 5 which is about 4 more than I thought I would.  I noticed that the word fragile is very popular in these descriptions.

I got 6 of them.  I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Well, I got to see firsthand how my 5-year-old nephew has been shaped by conventional storytelling and societal attitudes toward gender. He's a huge fan of Pirates of the Caribbean, and he even dresses as his beloved Jack Sparrow whenever he watches. Last weekend we watched Dead Man's Chest (it was his first time watching it), and he was furious when Elizabeth

Spoiler

chained Jack to the ship to face the Kraken and die.

I mean, he was deeply upset by this, and kept saying how he couldn't forgive Elizabeth for what she did, and how bad she was to do it. I think he was grumbling about it all weekend.

Now, we could all debate until we pass out over whether Elizabeth did the right thing, but that Jack Sparrow is loved by everyone despite having enough flaws to fill a dictionary, while Elizabeth does one-one!- really morally questionable thing, and people are ready to publicly stone her is very telling. In fact, it's very typical in fiction: men can do morally ambiguous to downright awful things all the damn time, but women get pilloried for every little thing, even comparatively trivial slights like being a "nag". 

If you like Jack Sparrow, fine, but as fun as he can be, I can't ignore Jack's inconsistent competence, thievery, deception, childishness, cowardice, selfishness, icky sexism, and his frequent willingness to betray those who make the mistake of trusting him. I mean, he's a pirate, he's not supposed to be admirable, but I still don't think that negates my point.

And not that anyone cares, but I think Elizabeth did the right thing. She was thinking of the others, and you know Jack would have done the same thing for lesser reasons and without a pang of remorse.

We come down hardest on female characters, especially if they're too "strong" or too "weak". In the book Brave Dames and Wimpettes, Susan Isaacs constantly drags Anne Archer's character Beth from Fatal Attraction over the coals for being a "wimpette", simply because she's content being a housewife and seemingly not interested in anything else. 

Never mind that most people live in their own little interest bubbles. Never mind the fact that Beth is a decent woman and wife who did nothing wrong. Never mind that her asshole husband not only cheated on her, but brought a complete and utter psychopath into their lives as a bonus. Never mind that Beth was the one

Spoiler

who had the competence and balls to shoot Alex and be done with it. 

 

But nope! Beth wasn't "strong and independent" enough for Susan Isaacs or for most viewers!

I'm frankly tired of the modern trend of making "strong and independent" female characters who are really just robots with no emotions, personality, vulnerability, interests, or flaws (Mia Wasikowska's Alice is a glaring example). I for one love how Belle in the animated Beauty and the Beast doesn't hold back her tears. I love how Sarah Connor showed the android's initial creator mercy in Terminator 2. Hell, I even loved how Wonder Woman was excited to see a baby (what?! She's never seen one before, they're like unicorns where she's from!).

Is it really asking so much to make female characters human? Just human, with strengths and weakness in equal measure?

[Spartan Girl]

I didn't mind Elizabeth leaving Jack to be eaten by the Kraken.

What I DID mind was the shitty way she treated Will.