Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[PatternRec]

On 7/15/2016 at 8:57 AM, vibeology said:

And about damn time. Superhero stories set in New York City that are whiter than white are just unbelievable at this point.

There needs to a movie crossover between the MCU and Broad City: superheroes and wacky shenanigans set in a realistic diverse NYC. 

[Fukui San]

If it ever gets to the point of making a movie of Astro City by Kurt Busiek, then that'd fit the bill. It's basically a look at the hidden stories within a Superhero Universe, like "What would it be like to be a Superhero's personal assistant?"

The Superhero universe created to inhabit the concept has been studiously diverse and resembles a real American city  

That said, it'd probably be more realistic budget wise as an animated series. Stories routinely use as many superheroes as would fit an Avengers movie but many are only cameos. 

[Rick Kitchen]

There is a TV series coming up called "Powerless", about the non-superhero people who have to clean up after a Superhero battle destroys the city.

It stars multi-ethnic actress Vandessa Hudgens, half-Indian actor Danny Pudi, and a bunch of white people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerless_(TV_series)

[PatternRec]

7 hours ago, Rick Kitchen said:

There is a TV series coming up called "Powerless", about the non-superhero people who have to clean up after a Superhero battle destroys the city.

It stars multi-ethnic actress Vandessa Hudgens, half-Indian actor Danny Pudi, and a bunch of white people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerless_(TV_series)

Danny Pudi, Alan Tudyk and Kate Micucci? I love all three of them. 

[slf]

12 hours ago, PatternRec said:

In any case this tweet from the other day warmed my heart: 

The look on both those little girls' faces... <3 

Oh, look at how happy they are! They're so cute dressed up as Ghostbusters. That alone was worth all of this- all of these little girls excited to see themselves getting to be the heroes who vanquish the ghosts and save the day.

Edited July 17, 2016 by slf

[greenbean]

On 7/15/2016 at 4:52 PM, JessePinkman said:

Probably just the bitchiest part of Tumblr but I haven't seen anything.

I haven't seen any critiques, but I don't know why it would be "bitchy" to discuss such things. At the very least, from a world building pov, it will be interesting to see how Wakanda and Black Panther are actually portrayed.

[JessePinkman]

2 hours ago, greenbean said:

I haven't seen any critiques, but I don't know why it would be "bitchy" to discuss such things. At the very least, from a world building pov, it will be interesting to see how Wakanda and Black Panther are actually portrayed.

 

You're right, it is a valid conversation to have.

[Princess Sparkle]

On July 16, 2016 at 5:45 PM, PatternRec said:

In any case this tweet from the other day warmed my heart: 

The look on both those little girls' faces... <3 

Going along with this photo - I rarely watch The View unless a clip comes across on Facebook, and I saw one making the rounds this weekend of Leslie Jones talking to Whoopi Goldberg.  And she was telling Whoopi how wonderful it was to see Whoopi on tv when she was a kid, because she was able to then say "Someone who looks like me is on tv!" and it let her know that she could be a comedian on tv and in movies.  She then got choked up saying that she hoped that by being in Ghostbusters, a little girl could see the movie and believe, just like Leslie did, that she could be in movies.  I cried when she finished telling her story. THAT right there is why an all-female Ghostbusters is so important. 

[Danny Franks]

12 hours ago, slf said:

Oh, look at how happy they are! They're so cute dressed up as Ghostbusters. That alone was worth all of this- all of these little girls excited to see themselves getting to be the heroes who vanquish the ghosts and save the day.

Ugh. They already got to imagine themselves as the love interest, now they have to be the heroes too? What is wrong with these little girls? Why do they have to take everything?

I remember reading a review of The Force Awakens where the reviewer said she got genuinely emotional when she thought about how important Rey would be to a whole generation of young girls, and it really resonated with me. A big part of enjoying movies, TV shows etc as a child (and as an adult, I guess) is being able to project characters onto yourself, and it's great to see these kids able to find that connection so easily.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Whoopi Goldberg meant a lot to me growing up to, also, in being a visible minority.  As did so many people and women of colour on television and in the movies.  It really moves me to hear that Leslie Jones told that story.  Seriously, my brother and I watched Whoopi in so many things over and over again that we joke that she was like our substitute Mom.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[JBC344]

Really moving.

[Spartan Girl]

I love how all the angry mennists are making such a big deal about how the new Ghostbusters are potraying all the male characters as stupid or jerks. Like the whole movie it's just one big male bashing fest.

First of all, there are TONS of movies where male characters are stupid jerks, this isn't exactly new.

Second, having now seen the movie, I can now verify that gender isn't even made a big deal in the plot. Sure people dismiss the Ghostbusters as frauds, but then again THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THE ORIGINAL MOVIE. The fact that they happen to be women is irrelevant.

And finally, even if the claims of male bashing had any credence, well, how many times have we been subjected to female stereotypes in the movies? How many times have women been portrayed as either dumb, helpless, gold-diggers, petty, shallow, desperate, or overall bimbos? Marge Simpson has been degenerated into a whiny, bitchy ninny, and yet she's somehow one of the most celebrated female characters in pop culture. What does that say?

So my response to these guys is the same one they've been telling us for years: Get over it. It's just a movie.

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I love how all the angry mennists are making such a big deal about how the new Ghostbusters are potraying all the male characters as stupid or jerks. Like the whole movie it's just one big male bashing fest.

I don't think that's even an accurate assessment of the male characters in the movie. Andy Garcia's mayor isn't as much of a jerk as his assistant (who is a woman), who is the one who goes on TV badmouthing the Ghostbusters. He just wants to keep everyone calm. And the two agents played by Michael K. Williams and Matt Walsh aren't jerks either. They're just doing their jobs, and I'm sure they say at some point that they admire the work the Ghostbusters are doing. If the Ghostbusters had been men, then these adversarial characters could have been much, much more strident, and no one would bat an eyelid.

But at the end of the day,as you point out, in a movie where one of the central thematic points is that your heroes are downtrodden outsiders, struggling to be taken seriously, most of the people they meet will be jerks. Otherwise the narrative doesn't work.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Danny Franks

[Princess Sparkle]

9 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Really moving.

 

Thank you for finding the clip!

[Wiendish Fitch]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I love how all the angry mennists are making such a big deal about how the new Ghostbusters are potraying all the male characters as stupid or jerks. Like the whole movie it's just one big male bashing fest.

First of all, there are TONS of movies where male characters are stupid jerks, this isn't exactly new.

Second, having now seen the movie, I can now verify that gender isn't even made a big deal in the plot. Sure people dismiss the Ghostbusters as frauds, but then again THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THE ORIGINAL MOVIE. The fact that they happen to be women is irrelevant.

And finally, even if the claims of male bashing had any credence, well, how many times have we been subjected to female stereotypes in the movies? How many times have women been portrayed as either dumb, helpless, gold-diggers, petty, shallow, desperate, or overall bimbos? Marge Simpson has been degenerated into a whiny, bitchy ninny, and yet she's somehow one of the most celebrated female characters in pop culture. What does that say?

So my response to these guys is the same one they've been telling us for years: Get over it. It's just a movie.

If they're going to follow that logic, then think of all the beloved movies written primarily by men, about men, for men, that portray men in a not-so-admirable light: Porky's, Caddyshack, Animal House, Old School, pretty much any movie with the name Rogen, Apatow, and/or Franco attached, to name just a few. I hear no complaints about those, but now that I think about it, I think I know why: they don't feature any interesting female characters at all. Women are just background noise in the aforementioned films, and that's what bothers them.

As a woman, I get tired of how so many movies feature women as the love interest/boring, nagging wife/sexy cipher/Manic Pixie Dream Girl/Cool Girl, so if nothing else, maybe the Ghostbusters will pave the way for more fantasy/adventure films that star women (and they'd better not have a stupid third act tiff in any of them!).

[xaxat]

I've always thought it was an interesting convention, the fact that (almost) anyone of African descent can play all people of African descent. David Oyelowo (British) plays Martin Luther King, Forest Whitaker (US) plays Idi Amin and Ruth Negga (Ethiopian-Irish) will be playing Mildred Loving, whose court case made interracial marriage legal throughout the US..  

It doesn't bother me, but I'm not really sure what to make of it.

[vibeology]

19 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I remember reading a review of The Force Awakens where the reviewer said she got genuinely emotional when she thought about how important Rey would be to a whole generation of young girls, and it really resonated with me. A big part of enjoying movies, TV shows etc as a child (and as an adult, I guess) is being able to project characters onto yourself, and it's great to see these kids able to find that connection so easily.

I am 30 years old and I cried when Rey held that lightsaber. That was the first time I really saw a space for me in Star Wars. Don't get me wrong, I love Princess Leia, but she was the one woman in the entire universe (not literally true because Aunt Beru existed but the pickings were so slim) and while I love her, I didn't see myself in her and she was my only option my entire life. (Sure the prequels existed, but was any girl or woman inspired by Padme?) Rey was the first time I felt like there was a place for me inside the magical part of Star Wars and that's always been the part I loved.

As promised, I saw Ghostbusters this weekend. It's certainly not going to set the world on fire as the best action comedy ever but it was a good, fun movie. There were some truly great moments, some typical moments and a couple of jokes that I just didn't love. It looked amazing in 3D. In terms of having female Ghostbusters, it worked just as well as the original. Accepting that there are ghosts out there has got to be harder than accepting that women can bust those ghosts. Ghostbusters was a big part of my childhood (that cartoon was my favourite thing as a kid, I played the Ray Parker Jr. song so much that I wore out my tape and my parents bravely rented the movie for me the first time while I was three or four and I loved it) and I can say that my childhood seems fairly intact a day later. If one kid feel like they have a place in the Ghostbuster world because of this movie, it was totally worth it.

It's a good movie. That 74% Rating on Rotten Tomatoes seems about right. It's not the best comedy but it's a good solid movie and most people will find something to like it in. Sorry, not sorry, reddit assholes.

[PatternRec]

3 hours ago, xaxat said:

I've always thought it was an interesting convention, the fact that (almost) anyone of African descent can play all people of African descent. David Oyelowo (British) plays Martin Luther King, Forest Whitaker (US) plays Idi Amin and Ruth Negga (Ethiopian-Irish) will be playing Mildred Loving, whose court case made interracial marriage legal throughout the US..  

It doesn't bother me, but I'm not really sure what to make of it.

Race and country of origin are different things though. Tons of white British actors play Americans in movies and TV in the US all the time.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 17/07/2016 at 3:13 PM, greenbean said:

I haven't seen any critiques, but I don't know why it would be "bitchy" to discuss such things. At the very least, from a world building pov, it will be interesting to see how Wakanda and Black Panther are actually portrayed.

It just makes  me wonder, because I get the feeling if a British actor was cast as Captain America, you would probably hear lots of complaints. If a French actor was cast as James Bond people would lose their shit. With Black Panther you aren't seeing the same thing even though being from Africa defines him the same way being British defines Bond. Now is it just because people aren't as familiar with the character? Or is it the kind of thing where people are just happy that they are getting a black super hero movie and figuring that is god enough? Kinda settling as it were.

[Rick Kitchen]

The mayor's aide is a woman, and she's a jerk, too.

[PatternRec]

54 minutes ago, Rick Kitchen said:

The mayor's aide is a woman, and she's a jerk, too.

What?!?! The mayor's aide is a WOMAN? Well *now* I won't see it!

 

#facetious

[Ms Blue Jay]

Unfortunately, Leslie Jones, star of Ghostbusters, is receiving the most horrific racist abuse on Twitter.  She is sharing it right now on her Timeline.

Warning, it's quite upsetting:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/susancheng/love-for-leslie-jones?utm_term=.myBx6a7WDm

Edited July 19, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Princess Sparkle]

Good for her for retweeting all that, but JFC, people are terrible. And the fact that tweeting hate speech at someone isn't against Twitter's acceptable content rules policy is appalling. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Princess Sparkle

[Ms Blue Jay]

"The question @Jack needs to ask himself is why he allows people like Milo to continually pollute his service."

http://www.amalanetwork.com/2016/07/19/gamergates-war-against-ghostbusters-and-leslie-jones/

[Danny Franks]

21 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

Good for her for retweeting all that, but JFC, people are terrible. And the fact that tweeting hate speech at someone isn't against Twitter's acceptable content rules policy is appalling. 

Yet in the UK it is considered a criminal offence, and people have been identified and punished for things they've said on Twitter. Particularly racial abuse. It's a shame other countries don't follow this course, it might make hateful bigots less likely to spew their vileness openly (well, I say openly, I mean 'online but hiding behind anonymity').

This is one of the many reasons I really dislike social media. It gives every moron an open microphone and a stage to stand on.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Danny Franks

[PatternRec]

I immediately followed and tweeted support to Leslie. It's not much, but it's something. 

 

56 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Yet in the UK it is considered a criminal offence, and people have been identified and punished for things they've said on Twitter. Particularly racial abuse. It's a shame other countries don't follow this course, it might make hateful bigots less likely to spew their vileness openly (well, I say openly, I mean 'online but hiding behind anonymity').

Interesting. It sets an interesting precedent, and the spiteful, revenge-y part of me likes the idea of a hatemonger facing real world consequences for threatening or harassing someone. Free speech does not mean consequence-free speech. 

[twoods]

Facebook, Twitter, and other social media outlets need to curb this crap. This is not okay at all, and it's a bunch of losers who have no life. The sad thing is that they are also using fake accounts, so unless they start cancelling these accounts those losers will still be opening accounts and trolling. 

Poor Leslie. Some of those comments made me sick.

[PatternRec]

46 minutes ago, twoods said:

Facebook, Twitter, and other social media outlets need to curb this crap. This is not okay at all, and it's a bunch of losers who have no life. The sad thing is that they are also using fake accounts, so unless they start cancelling these accounts those losers will still be opening accounts and trolling. 

Poor Leslie. Some of those comments made me sick.

I totally agree that this kind of behavior is horrible, but I do like the idea that instead of social media sites making this against their TOS that actual law enforcement gets involved and produces real-world consequences other than "your account has been shut down." If I sent someone a death threat through normal mail, I wouldn't have my ability to send postcards taken away. I'd be investigated by law enforcement. The same should happen to people harassing through social media. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by PatternRec
typos

[Bruinsfan]

Sent her a complimentary tweet myself. I hope she gets cast as whatever movie/game/comic book characters will give these people the most cardiac arrests over the next few years and makes millions of dollars doing it.

[Bruinsfan]

On 7/16/2016 at 7:43 AM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Full disclosure: I am a woman, I consider myself a feminist, and I have little interest in the new Ghostbusters because I don't think it looks particularly funny. That's all, my word of honor. An all-female Ghostbusters could have certainly worked for me, if they'd had a different director, tighter jokes, and replaced Kristen Wiig and Melissa McCarthy (I'm sorry, they don't do much for me) with Mindy Kaling and either Cecily Strong, Sasheer Zamata, or Vanessa Bayer (I love the current line of SNL ladies, can you tell?). Bear in mind that I'm judging from the trailer, so my opinion is to be taken with half a grain of salt.

If it helps any, my usual reaction to Kristen Wiig is "Oh Jesus, not her again!," but in this movie the character she plays is non-irritating and contributes well to the overall comedy. I wouldn't let her be a drawback in the decision whether or not to see it. It's much better than the first couple of trailers would lead you to believe.

[PatternRec]

3 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

...Cecily Strong, Sasheer Zamata, or Vanessa Bayer...

I love all three of them!

[Babalu]

I barely even know who Leslie is (read an article about her in The New Yorker and saw her in a tiny role in Trainwreck), but those tweets infuriated me to the point that I've been responding to every ad or promoted tweet with a response to the advertiser (with a cc: to @twitter) that I'd be boycotting them until Twitter takes meaningful action against hate speech and bullying. I know my contribution isn't much, but I would love it if Twitter would start to get some pressure from their sponsors. I know Twitter has reached out to Leslie and made general statements, but it's not enough. 

ETA: I just went to Twitter and saw that Milo Yiannopoulos has been permanently banned. Which is a good start, but he was the ringleader and far from the only one who posted racist, hateful things, so I asked Twitter what else they were going to do. I mean, I don't want Twitter to reflect only my values, but there's a difference between having varying opinions and attacking someone based on race, gender, etc.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Babalu

[Rick Kitchen]

22 minutes ago, Babalu said:

I barely even know who Leslie is (read an article about her in The New Yorker and saw her in a tiny role in Trainwreck), but those tweets infuriated me to the point that I've been responding to every ad or promoted tweet with a response to the advertiser (with a cc: to @twitter) that I'd be boycotting them until Twitter takes meaningful action against hate speech and bullying. I know my contribution isn't much, but I would love it if Twitter would start to get some pressure from their sponsors. I know Twitter has reached out to Leslie and made general statements, but it's not enough. 

They have permanently banned Nero, one of the main perpetrators, who was also a Gamergate activist.

[Babalu]

Thanks, @Rick Kitchen. I just saw about Milo and was editing my post while you responded. Who's Nero? Is he another Breitbart person?

[Rick Kitchen]

Nero is Milo's Twitter handle.

[Ms Blue Jay]

So Babalu you actually have contributed something positive.

It took 12 hours for @jack to respond to this issue, and a lot of people are obviously still upset that what was done isn't enough, and that women of colour and other people (a lot of women on Twitter in the gaming community, for an example, or any woman that is outspoken on racial issues / has thousands of followers / etc.) that aren't famous like Leslie do NOT get helped when they are attacked in the same manner - HOWEVER, banning Milo permanently is a positive contribution and for that I'm happy.  Milo had his 'fans' / servants whomever all attack Leslie.  Now they are all crying because he's banned :) 

And crazily enough some of Milo's fans are even saying he went too far (saw posts linked on Reddit) - some tweeted @ him they were feeling a crisis of conscience (saw the tweets) -- that's how bad the abuse towards Leslie got... 

[xaxat]

Really good interview with John Cho.

Quote

I've seen many instances where we’re seen as a little less than human, or maybe a little more than human — like ultrahuman, rather than subhuman. What is wrong with film representation? Some of it is mechanical, surprisingly. I've thought about why Asian stars — from Asia, I mean — look so much better in their Asian films than they do in their American films, and now I can answer that to some extent. There's an eye, and it's not a malicious eye, which is a way that the people working the camera and behind the scenes view us. And then they process it and they put it on film. And it's not quite human. Whereas Asian films, they are considered fully human. Fully heroic, fully comic, fully lovely, fully sad, whatever it is. And it's this combination of lighting, makeup, and costume.

If you don't think of a person as fully human, you sort of stop short and go, That’s good enough. Do you remember Doug Liman’s film Go? I remember Taye Diggs in that movie, and he was charcoal black. I was surprised to see him in How Stella Got Her Groove Back — I realized that Go was not an accurate representation of his skin tone whatsoever. And I've met him. He was carelessly lit. Why is that? Why is one carelessly lit? The white people were carefully lit.

[Ambrosefolly]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

So Babalu you actually have contributed something positive.

It took 12 hours for @jack to respond to this issue, and a lot of people are obviously still upset that what was done isn't enough, and that women of colour and other people (a lot of women on Twitter in the gaming community, for an example, or any woman that is outspoken on racial issues / has thousands of followers / etc.) that aren't famous like Leslie do NOT get helped when they are attacked in the same manner - HOWEVER, banning Milo permanently is a positive contribution and for that I'm happy.  Milo had his 'fans' / servants whomever all attack Leslie.  Now they are all crying because he's banned :) 

And crazily enough some of Milo's fans are even saying he went too far (saw posts linked on Reddit) - some tweeted @ him they were feeling a crisis of conscience (saw the tweets) -- that's how bad the abuse towards Leslie got... 

Milo isn't crying because he was banned. He is celebrating it. He is now getting coverage on CNBC, where he basically called Twitter a shitty product from a tech perspective . And I read his review: he was as hard on her as any of the other cast members. He hated the movie in general. And he was right, he can't be held responsible for what his twitter followers do. If Milo gets banned, all the people calling for Donald Trumps assassination should be banned as well, but they are not, and I am saying this as a Trump hater. Milo my have lost a platform, but his fame has gone up. 

[Babalu]

@Ms Blue Jay and @Ambrosefolly - I agree that banning Milo was only a very small first step against the hate speech allowed by Twitter, and I told Twitter this after the ban(s - apparently there were multiple). At least Twitter has admitted that their previous policies were inadequate and has pledged to take more aggressive action in the future. Again, I think people have the right to be stupid, and probably even rude to some extent, and those people can be blocked or ignored if necessary, but targeted attacks full of racism, sexism, etc., need to be stopped consistently and permanently.

[PatternRec]

I don't know if I trust social media sites enough to properly police themselves. I think there need to be better laws in general regarding this. If this were not happening online but in person you can get a restraining order or more. Simply shutting the guy down from Twitter does nothing of real consequence to him. 

[Danny Franks]

13 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Milo isn't crying because he was banned. He is celebrating it. He is now getting coverage on CNBC, where he basically called Twitter a shitty product from a tech perspective . And I read his review: he was as hard on her as any of the other cast members. He hated the movie in general. And he was right, he can't be held responsible for what his twitter followers do. If Milo gets banned, all the people calling for Donald Trumps assassination should be banned as well, but they are not, and I am saying this as a Trump hater. Milo my have lost a platform, but his fame has gone up. 

And his fame has gone up as an intolerant, right wing bigot who seems to think that, just because he himself is gay, he can't be guilty of bigotry to others. Not that we need any more poster boys for right wing exclusionist beliefs, but there you go.

[Ambrosefolly]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

And his fame has gone up as an intolerant, right wing bigot who seems to think that, just because he himself is gay, he can't be guilty of bigotry to others. Not that we need any more poster boys for right wing exclusionist beliefs, but there you go.

He isn't a bigot. I have been watching his videos and interviews for over a year and his issues are against the tactics that Black Lives Matter use for their movements (and he now has every reason to dislike them after they hijacked his schedule speech and Q&A that was set up by  fellow DePaul, despite him spending thousands of dollars on security as requested by the school) and his apprehension towards radical islam and their attitude towards his lifestyle, and he uses rhetoric almost identical to anti-Christian ones that have been shown on mainstream television.

[SeanC]

On 7/18/2016 at 6:57 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

It just makes  me wonder, because I get the feeling if a British actor was cast as Captain America, you would probably hear lots of complaints. If a French actor was cast as James Bond people would lose their shit. With Black Panther you aren't seeing the same thing even though being from Africa defines him the same way being British defines Bond. Now is it just because people aren't as familiar with the character? Or is it the kind of thing where people are just happy that they are getting a black super hero movie and figuring that is god enough? Kinda settling as it were.

Somewhat belated response, but one should note, Black Panther isn't from a real country, so that's different than, say, Captain America.

[Rick Kitchen]

I like the idea that Michael B Jordan is going to play the villain in Black Panther.  And it's sort of astounding that all of the leads announced so far have been black.  I just hope that people don't start looking at the film as a "black ghetto".

[Jazzy24]

1 hour ago, Rick Kitchen said:

I like the idea that Michael B Jordan is going to play the villain in Black Panther.  And it's sort of astounding that all of the leads announced so far have been black.  I just hope that people don't start looking at the film as a "black ghetto".

What do you mean by "black ghetto"?

[Rick Kitchen]

Haters who are going to say they won't watch it, or it won't be good, or it won't draw white people to the theaters.

[Jazzy24]

45 minutes ago, Rick Kitchen said:

Haters who are going to say they won't watch it, or it won't be good, or it won't draw white people to the theaters.

I'm honestly not too worried about this. I've seen nothing but praise and love for Black Panther and Chadwick B, and it's 90% black cast. 

What I'm more worried about is how the characters will be written. T'Challa is one of the smartest marvel characters, he's the richest and a king from Africa. Wakanda is a Affican nation that has little to no outside influence so I hope they don't put an American spin on it. 

But I have a lot of faith in Marvel, they actually know their characters. 

[Luckylyn]

5 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I'm unsure if this belongs here or in the Gender in Movies thread, but I'm so annoyed anymore when people say "No more romances!" as if falling in (or out of) love isn't part of the human existence. Do I think Hollywood always does it well? No. But just the idea of it seems to give folks hives, particularly as it relates to women, and I think its the execution that can be the problem, not the concept itself.

I agree that there are people have this anti-romance stance as if all romance is automatically bad.   There have been bad movie romances but there have also been great ones.  Like you said it's the execution that matters.  There was a period where there was one crappy rom-com after another and I can understand that putting some people off but with good writing and the right cast romances can be really entertaining to watch.  Romance is one facet of life that's pretty common and it makes sense that it would be reflected on screen.  I think it would be unrealistic to never have characters fall in love ever which is what some movie goers seem to want.Sometimes I wonder if the disdain for romance is because it's considered to be a stereo typically female interest.  This issue comes up on television as well. 

[FormerMod-a1]

For me it isn't that I think romance is bad, but it seems that there is ALWAYS romance.  Like it has to be there.  No, it doesn't.  You do not need a romantic partner to be "complete", happy, fulfilled, etc.  I'd just like it to sometimes not be part of the story.  You can save the world without falling in love.  

[JessePinkman]

On 7/25/2016 at 4:46 PM, Rick Kitchen said:

I like the idea that Michael B Jordan is going to play the villain in Black Panther.  And it's sort of astounding that all of the leads announced so far have been black.

 

The pretty revelatory part is that the two female leads are not only African women but dark skinned African women. That just doesn't happen.