S06.E10: START

[SunnyBeBe]

If Paige will just keep her mouth shut. Stan won't squeal on her. 

[SeanC]

“Brothers in Arms” will always be associated with a particular episode of The West Wing for me, but this episode gave a good go at trying to supplant it.

[CookieChica]

4 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

The garage scene was the best of the entire episode.

I wanted some Stan resolution . . . does he just live with knowing he betrayed his country? Does he just not give a fuck anymore? Does he live in turmoil the rest of his life? WTH STAN???

I kind of thought that he always fucked up with Matthew and wished Henry was his son and now he... kind of is? Turning in Phillip and Elizabeth destroys what will now be his only pure relationship left (especially after Phillip's parting gift). 

[Dminches]

Great ending.  Unfortunately Philip and Elizabeth are left with nothing but memories.  I thought the scene with Beamon was an all time great one.  I really don’t understand what people who did not like it were hoping for.

[ChromaKelly]

I really need more Oleg than him just defeated in a cell. Sad OlegDad and OlegWife was too much. I wanted some resolution there.
It would have been better if Paige was outside the train in custody. 
Elizabeth, lying right to the end. "We don't kill people!" Ugh. 
I'm not sure how I feel about the ending yet.  Need time to process. 

[jjj]

Oh, Philip and Elizabeth REALLY played Stan -- "We don't kill people."  He will never know what he let them get away with.  And he saw her vicious work. 

[CaliCheeseSucks]

5 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

ITA.  Although I imagine there's not much they can charge Paige with.  Not even "harboring a pair of spies".

She participated in and witnessed some missions with Mom. She's absolutely an accessory.

[Umbelina]

I have to wait and see.

All I have are comments and now (yay!) reviews.

Emotionally it sounds great, but I'm not fond of the dangling issues.  Paige.  Renee.  The enemies in the USSR.

[sistermagpie]

Quick first thoughts:

That part in the beginning I was hoping Philip would get a flashback but...nope.

I didn't love the scene in the garage even though it was the big set piece. Thought it was funny when Philip threw all the credit for figuring out the Gorbachev plot to Elizabeth.

Paige and Henry being what's left of the family is good for me. No big adoption moment from Stan. Henry will just stay at school, spend the summer in West Virginia and finish his school and get a scholarship. As Philip and Elizabeth confirmed at the end--the kids are raised already. Henry will have to take care of Paige, probably. I'm surprised she made it back to DC on her own. How did she even get there? I guess just take out money from her own bank account etc.? There's no way we're supposed to believe she's living as anyone but herself.

Paige likes to sit at tables and stare like Elizabeth. Too bad her being terrible at being a spy never had any payoff. I was really glad she got off the train because the ending's much better with Philip and Elizabeth starting over again just like they did before. They didn't have that exact conversation when they got to the US but it was the same idea. Wonder if Philip will remember he has a brother. He can meet his son now!

So we get the title now--Stan lowered his weapon.

Loved Philip and Elizabeth asleep in the backseat of Arkady's car like two tired children, which they pretty much are in some ways. Tired, murderous children.

OMG, I loved Elizabeth's Gregory dream at the end. It gave new meaning to the whole "smoked like a chimney" idea. She smoked a lot when pregnant because she "didn't want a kid anyway."

[skippylou]

6 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

ITA.  Although I imagine there's not much they can charge Paige with.  Not even "harboring a pair of spies".

Stan is the only person who knows that Paige knew for years.  

[chocolatine]

I'm OK with this ending. Wish at least one of them had gotten caught, but it's a consolation that P&E didn't truly have a happy ending. They'll never see their kids again, Paige is almost certainly going to prison, and their position in the Soviet Union is uncertain. The KGB may get to them before they get to Gorbachev.

I did like that it was a bloodless finale - the violence in every episode up until now has gotten gratuitous. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

Really liked this one. Anything left up in the air aside. The acting from everyone was really well done, loved the music choices. Bravo!

[CookieChica]

Commercials were frequent in hour one but I liked that the last 25 minutes was uninterrupted. 

[KaveDweller]

2 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

It would have been better if Paige was outside the train in custody. 

I seriously thought that's what was going to happen. Seeing her alone shocked me.

[jjj]

When we met Stan, he had PTSD from his undercover operation.  How will he react to all this betrayl and the Renee uncertainty, once he has time to catch his breath?  

Poor Henry, get one non-speaking scene of reaction, shaking his head. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by jjj

[kay1864]

2 minutes ago, jjj said:

Oh, Philip and Elizabeth REALLY played Stan -- "We don't kill people."  He will never know what he let them get away with.  And he saw her vicious work. 

Amazing how Philip calculated (so quickly!) exactly what truths, and what lies, he should tell Stan. 

[Dev F]

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

A surprisingly straightforward ending, after all that.

Yep. I'm surprised that I'm surprised by that. I was guessing all sorts of spy-thriller plot twists and dramatic endings for various characters, but that's never been what the show was about.

Quote

Once Philip raised his suspicion to Stan about his wife, the endgame for that became really clear to me, i.e., it's meant to be a lingering thing that Stan will be stuck wondering about.  Poor Stan.

I saw it more as a chance for Stan to rethink his priorities. He could've obsessed about the investigation across the street and snooping after his maybe-Russkie wife, but he left all that behind to be there for Henry when he needed him most. It's the first time, I think, that we've seen him running toward something instead of running away from things.

Loved Gregory's dream cameo, and a surprisingly coherent explanation for what smoking has meant to Elizabeth all along: the shutting out of family. I just watched the episode from season 2 where Elizabeth lights up a cigarette for the first time since season 1 -- and burns the letter Leanne wrote for her son.

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

She participated in and witnessed some missions with Mom. She's absolutely an accessory.

There is absolutely no evidence of that, though.

[echo.Echo.ECHO]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

If Paige will just keep her mouth shut. Stan won't squeal on her. 

Yeah, but she'll be interrogated, and she's not good enough to convince the FBI she didn't know anything. I guess we'll just have to handwave that.

[Marianna]

10 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

ITA.  Although I imagine there's not much they can charge Paige with.  Not even "harboring a pair of spies".

You’re assuming she doesn’t idiotically give herself away. Is she good enough to pull off the innocent act?

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, KBrownie said:

That's the most ridiculous part of this entire thing for me.  Why is Stan made to look like a complete and utter fool and end of betraying his country for two people who get off totally scot-free for all the horrific things they did in the name of theirs?   Awful.  If they were really worth it, they would have never left him to do it.  He obviously wasn't worth it to them.  They sure weren't willing to sacrifice shit for him, but he becomes a turncoat.  All for some true love conquers all bullshit.  

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they made Stan such a towering moron that he doesn't grasp the likelihood that Phil killed Amador. For some reason, however, I thought the writers would not, in the final episode fall prey to the failing I hate most heavily serialized t.v. drama, which is making the characters idiots for purposes of getting to the scenes the writers wish to write. Really hate that they did this, and what's worse is that they did it with Liz and Phil, too. Paige was a given, I guess. Ugh.

[jjj]

I am STILL waiting for the FBI to realize there was a murder of a Russian agent in the process of trying to kill a Russian diplomat.  You'd think that would be news, in the middle of hunting for Russians.  Oleg still does not know about Tatiana.  

[Dminches]

4 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

She participated in and witnessed some missions with Mom. She's absolutely an accessory.

Only the viewers know that.  Stan doesn’t.  He cares too much for Henry to lock Paige up without any concrete evidence.

[scartact]

I'm still not over that gasp Liz does when she can't challenge Phil's logic that they have to leave Henry. And while this seems like a happy ending (ish), knowing what's down the line for their country, is it? At the end of every single thing, they only have each other. Bittersweet.

The more I sit with it, the more I love it. Am firmly planting myself with the non-haters!

[crgirl412]

If they stay protected by Arkady and Co. they could talk or maybe even see the kids again after the USSR is dissolved, right?

[Irlandesa]

12 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Will Paige have a normal life? Can she have a relationship with Henry? 

Probably.  Stan can't play it any other way than he played it with Henry even though he knows Paige knows the truth.  But she also know she let them go.

11 minutes ago, Natalie25 said:

It feels unresolved. I would've preferred less time on the escape and more time on fallout/reactions from others. Maybe a montage of their life in Russia.

I do think there were things to show there.  At the same time, it could have also felt hard to find an ending after this.

1 minute ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

She participated in and witnessed some missions with Mom. She's absolutely an accessory.

Yes.  But they don't have anything on her.  Without the sketches, they barely have anything on Philip and Elizabeth.

But yes, I still want some answers we'll never get.

[tennisgurl]

Oh Elizabeth. "I could have worked in a factory. Managed a factory." I have no doubt of that, Liz. I have no doubt. 

I cant decide what song will be more forever associated with this episode, Brother in Arms or With or Without You. I think With or Without You, the lyrics are just so terribly relevant. "And you give yourself away, and you give yourself away..."

I am so deeply depressed by Oleg`s apparent fate rotting in an American prison for the rest of his life for trying to make a better life for his country and family. I like to think he could get out one day when they realize what he was trying to do, but I dont know. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by tennisgurl

[CaliCheeseSucks]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

There is absolutely no evidence of that, though.

As has been established ad nauseum this season: Paige is not a smart girl - she'll squawk the second they start asking her questions, especially if she thinks it will help her parents, wherever they are. She has absolutely no one to live off of - she's going to have to cough up information for any kind of assistance in not ending up on the street.

[kay1864]

17 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

She participated in and witnessed some missions with Mom. She's absolutely an accessory.

True...but I doubt there's a single thing they can prove. To them, she knew and just kept quiet about it to protect her parents. If she keeps her mouth shut, there are no witnesses, and they have no proof that she was involved. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by kay1864

[Tetraneutron]

I liked it. But was this the only episode in the whole show where no one gets murdered?

Everyone's unhappy, which is how you know it's a good show. Oleg will be in jail for the rest of his life. Stan is a laughingstock at work and will slowly destroy his marriage. Philip and Elizabeth spent their whole lives fighting for nothing. 

All the Paige haters here should be happy. She ends the show miserable and cut off from her family and life forever. One thing that didn't make sense to me was the FBI knows about Philip and Elizabeth. That means that Henry won't be able to live out a normal American life. Even if the FBI believes that Henry and Paige were completely innocent, how do they just leave him alone? And what about Paige? Does Stan protect her? I suppose so? The implication was she takes off the wig/fake identity, but she's in the safehouse? So she doesn't have plausible deniability and is just waiting to be arrested?

What did Elizabeth's dream mean? Any theories?

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, SeanC said:

There is absolutely no evidence of that, though.

If you assume the FBI never recovers any of the cars Paige was in on operations, and she never left any hair in them.

[JennyMominFL]

I’m sure they could all have a lovely family meet up in Poland or someplace similar in the mid 90s

Edited May 31, 2018 by JennyMominFL

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I'm OK with this ending. Wish at least one of them had gotten caught, but it's a consolation that P&E didn't truly have a happy ending. They'll never see their kids again, Paige is almost certainly going to prison, and their position in the Soviet Union is uncertain. The KGB may get to them before they get to Gorbachev.

I did like that it was a bloodless finale - the violence in every episode up until now has gotten gratuitous. 

They will see their kids again though.  The real life spies that were caught did.  Soon Communism is dead.  They can travel, the kids can travel.

As for Stan?  I think I have to watch it play out first before judging.

My biggest issue would be the dead FBI agents in Chicago.  I don't think Stan's a moron though, I think he's human, he made a choice, he may regret making that choice.

[tennisgurl]

Also glad to see the family tradition of terrible wigs will live on through Paige. 

[TexasGal]

And what did Stan tell Henry?  Anything about Paige?  Or was he careful to only tell what he was supposed to know, which I guess would be that she was missing.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

1 minute ago, kay1864 said:

True...but I doubt there's a thing single thing they can prove. To them, she knew and just kept quiet about it to protect her parents. If she keeps her mouth shut, there are no witnesses, and they have no proof that she was involved. 

They're going to interrogate her no matter what. And she'll spill. She's young, she's stupid and she has literally nothing left in her life. Nada. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Did E smoke any after she got on the road out of DC?

[NitneLiun]

19 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

I wonder how long it took Philip and Elizabeth to get to Russia.  Can they tell Arkady about the KGB plot?

Arkady already knows. That's why he sent Oleg to Washington.

[skippylou]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they made Stan such a towering moron that he doesn't grasp the likelihood that Phil killed Amador. 

Stan doesn't want to know that.  It is in his unconscious and will someday force itself to the surface.  That will not be a good day for Stan.

[Misstify]

The scene in the garage with Stan reminded me of The Sound of Music, in the churchyard when Capt. von Trapp tries to persuade Rolf to let them go.  I can't believe Stan let them go, though.  I guess he really believed, or wanted to believe, that they didn't do the murders?  I would have liked to see a scene later on that showed Stan grappling with the fact that he let them go and basically has to live a lie now (he will have to lie to Aderholt, who had Thanksgiving at his house with the Jenningses, for the rest of his life).

I also would have liked a bit more on what happens to Paige now.  I can't quite believe she doesn't crack immediately under questioning.  

[FormerMod-a1]

Just now, NitneLiun said:

Arkady already knows. That's why he sent Oleg to Washington.

The message Philip passed to Oleg in the dead drop that Oleg got caught with.  That's the info to relay.

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

They will see their kids again though.  The real life spies that were caught did.  Soon Communism is dead.  They can travel, the kids can travel.

That is if their kids want to see them again. I doubt Henry will, and Paige will probably still be in prison.

[EtheltoTillie]

4 minutes ago, jjj said:

When we met Stan, he had PTSD from his undercover operation.  How will he react to all this betrayl and the Renee uncertainty, once he has time to catch his breath?  

Poor Henry, get one non-speaking scene of reaction, shaking his head. 

The only way I can buy Stan betraying the US is that he has throughout the series betrayed the US a few times. And he was established as a former undercover.  A complex character. But Philip really played him at the end. But I think he truthfully thought of Stan as his friend. 

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, skippylou said:

Stan doesn't want to know that.  It is in his unconscious and will someday force itself to the surface.  That will not be a good day for Stan.

I'm sorry, but I view that as simply the most incredibly lazy writing imaginable.

[kikaha]

The unresolved issues -- Renee, Oleg, Paige to name a few -- leave the door open for "The Americans: the movie."

[Plums]

I have so many thoughts but I thought this the whole time it was becoming clear that Stan was gonna take over the parental role for Henry and just have to get it out- so not only does Philip drop that bomb that Renee could be a spy, but he leaves Stan with the huge unpaid tuition bill as well. Harsh, Philip. 

[TimWil]

Stan let his avuncular love for Henry override justice for those innocents who were killed? Like Gennadi and Sofia? Like his partner Chris Amador? No. I don’t care that Elizabeth told him they didn’t kill people. Stan knew they did or or at least he knew they played a part in most of their deaths.

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

If you assume the FBI never recovers any of the cars Paige was in on operations, and she never left any hair in them.

Which cars, precisely?  When was that ever brought up in the series?

[Shriekingeel]

So, no accountability for all those murders of innocent people except that they are cut off from their kids (in Paige’s case a plus)?

 

In my ending, they get blown up by Chechens in the 1990s. 

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

They're going to interrogate her no matter what. And she'll spill. She's young, she's stupid and she has literally nothing left in her life. Nada. 

Yes, having Paige around is a serious danger to Stan, unless he persuades the FBI to let him interrogate her.

That loose end bothers me even more than the Renee stuff.

As for Oleg, he'll be in jail for a while, but I can see him eventually traded or released.  He just helped save Gorbachev's life after all.