S05.E22: Sutton Ross (No. 17)

[MostlyC]

Liz and Red face off in a climactic race to find a Blacklister in possession of the duffel bag of bones, forcing the truth about the bones to finally come to light.

[NeenerNeener]

What the hell is going on with Julian Sands' hair?

 

OK, called what the secret back before last Thanksgiving!

Edited May 17, 2018 by NeenerNeener

[MostlyC]

Tom!  Oh, how I miss him.

The (Duffel) Bag of Bones' reveal was rather....predictable. Yawn.

At least Samar's still alive, so my threat to NBC/the writers clearly worked.  ;)

[TigerLynx]

The bones are the real Raymond Reddington, and this Raymond isn't Liz's father.  Yawn.  So what?  They still haven't answered any questions.

I wish Mr. Kaplan would turn up alive.

It does amuse me that Raymond is still committing cold blooded murder in front of the FBI people, and they do nothing about it.

[tljgator]

Man, being in a coma does wonders for everyone's hair on this show. First Lizzie, now Samar. The proposal acceptance was predictable, but her flowing locks distracted me -- if that was the intent, well done, show. 

[ForumWarVeteran]

I can't wait for next year when we find out that Red actually IS the real Red and the Lizzie is the actual or whatever nonsense.

[StarBrand]

Well, people called that way back. I'm actually surprised the show went there, though.

Will be an interesting dynamic next year...

[Chaos Theory]

Well the shippers are gonna be happy.

Then again I have been rather happy with the season in general so I do kinda approve.  I will hold my judgement about the reveal because it does have potential and I really do like Dark Lizzie and this has alot of potential to send her down a very very dark road.  

As for the episode in general I figured the escape from the blacksite was a ploy mainly because Elizabeth has done it before and it made sense narratively speaking.  The whole con and double con Elizabeth pulled on Red made sense and I think it was relatively (Ha!) well done.   So yeah I approve and hold my judgement until next season.  

As for who Red really is....I kinda like the idea of him being well Lizzie's mom.  Did we ever figure out what happened to her?  Lizzie's mom kills Lizzie's dad and then takes over his life just to be closer to Lizzie.  Of course the shippers won't be happy again.  But I like that theory.  

Edited May 17, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[saber5055]

7 minutes ago, StarBrand said:

Well, people called that way back. I'm actually surprised the show went there, though.

I know, because so what. What difference does it make? Who cares? Anyone? Bueller?

Those crack FBI folk need to spend more time in the shooting range because they all suck at hitting anyone. Or take lessons from Red since he's a dead shot every time, aiming from the hip.

WTH is with Aram giving the door code. Because if the bad guy killed Lizzie then and there, he's lost his shield and he's captured. So yeah, he was bluffing. Aram for supposedly being so smart is sure a dumbass.

Fun how Aram can get from wherever they were to the hospital and onto that ward/floor in about 2 seconds. And yeah, all those nurses and doctors are just standing around in Samar's room because there isn't anything else to do. And Samar wakes up from a coma all fresh and bright eyed and ready to get married. All righty then.

In all, a good ending to the episode, nice twist. For a minute though I thought the real twist was Tom is still alive. Now THAT would have been majorly cool. But I can't figure out what the difference is if Red is real or Memorex. And why would Not Red keep Real Red's bones? Or is Not Red really Real Red? And is that DNA report for those bones or Not Red? Tune in next season I guess. Writers could stretch that storyline another 14 episodes. Or more.

[Neiman]

I like ghost Tom.  I hope we see more of him.

This Reddington must have had some connection to the other Reddington.  Why would he look after Lizzie if it weren't for feeling somehow indebted to him?

Another good episode for Dembe.  Please give him more lines.

We spent the whole van scene saying it's a distraction and Reddington isn't in any of the white vans.  Then we spent the captive Lizzie scene saying she's in on another plot--no way would she have apologized to Red like that. Then we guessed that Samar was out of the coma before they showed her.  Too predictable.  We originally fell for The Blacklist because there were so many surprises.  Give us more surprises.  

[Just my 2 cents]

No big surprise about the bones.  They've done the impostor thing a few seasons ago with Linus Roach, I think.  He told Elizabeth on the very first episode that everything about him was a lie.  They've pretty much alluded to this for the past whole 5 seasons.

 

I think the biggest reveal was that Liz actually used half of her brain for a change.  That was the big season ending shocker!  I've never seen her more competent.  It will be a first and probably a last.

[saber5055]

Side note: Were they watching "It Happened One Night" at the same time as Lucy and Flynn were watching that exact same scene in Timeless? Inquiring minds want to know.

4 minutes ago, ally said:

I think the biggest reveal was that Liz actually used half of her brain for a change.  That was the big season ending shocker!

No kidding. That was the big shocker for me too, that Lizzie even has a brain. Who knew?

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

But I can't figure out what the difference is if Red is real or Memorex. And why would Not Red keep Real Red's bones? Or is Not Red really Real Red? And is that DNA report for those bones or Not Red? Tune in next season I guess. Writers could stretch that storyline another 14 episodes. Or more.

We were back to standard operating procedure with Lizzie once again being done with Reddington, even threatening to arrest.  Oh, Lizzie, nice try.

I was actually surprised that Lizzie didn't lapse into a 10-month coma after hitting her head in that car accident.  Oh yeah, Lizzie can't drive worth shit.
 

4 minutes ago, ally said:

No big surprise about the bones.  They've done the impostor thing a few seasons ago with Linus Roach, I think. 

They've also faked DNA tests before, so, you know the test could be fake.

What was with the musical score this episode ?  A) It was so loud, b) there were so many scenes with loud musical scores, and C) the musical score didn't seem to work most of the time within the scene.  It was just music for the sake of music.

Lizzie is so bad at play acting, I guessed that she was working with Sutton Ross when they got to the security door. 

Speaking of doors, if the Post Office is "locked down", how can a temp guard have locked down escape access ?
 

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

It does amuse me that Raymond is still committing cold blooded murder in front of the FBI people, and they do nothing about it.

If anything it should concern all the FBI agents, because that means that Red could probably kill any of them at any time and get away with it.

Glad that the FBI has such free time to commit resources to yet another Lizzie personal matter.  FFS !
Then again, once you off the Attorney General and still manage to get your job back, and then fake your death and still manage to get your job back, I guess Lizzie can do whatever she wants and the others might as well join in.

I would have been more impressed if Ghost of the Real Red Reddington joined Lizzie and Ghost Tom in the cemetery, and Ghost Red thanked Lizzie for setting things in motion to get him out of the wall of that shitty motel.

 And for the last time this season, still no sign of the dogs.  And not even a mention of Agnes.  Agnes who ?

[saber5055]

8 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

and Ghost Red thanked Lizzie for setting things in motion to get him out of the wall of that shitty motel.

LOL at this, and I'm still laughing. Good one. Thanks.

[Neiman]

I don't mind not having any mention of the dogs or Agnes.

With Lizzie's grandfather in on the destruction of the bones, he must have been in on fake Red's plot from early on.

[ottoDbusdriver]

38 minutes ago, Neiman said:

With Lizzie's grandfather in on the destruction of the bones, he must have been in on fake Red's plot from early on.

Is he really Lizzie's grandfather ?  Or is he a replacement as well ?  The mystery deepens. 

[cam3150]

First, I am super proud of myself for almost immediately recognizing the actor who played Sutton Ross (Julian Sands) as the same actor who played Dr. Super Special Spider Expert (or whatever) in Arachnophobia. 

Holy Mullet, Batman! I am all for mullet humor but what on earth was that?

I kind of always enjoy any kind of fake-out reveal and I was surprised when I realized that’s what had happened. I also didn’t see the reveal of Not Raymond Reddington coming  That has potential to be interesting.  So many questions. He has to still be Liz’s Dad, right? Thankfully we’re getting a season 6.

I need to be kidnapped by a psycho,  be in a car accident, impaled, nearly attacked by both mice and a bear, drowned, end up in a coma and be proposed to if that’s what it does to my hair.

I enjoy Brian Denehey on this show, no matter how few the scenes.

As long as my Dembe is alive at the end of any given episode, especially a season finale, I’m good.

Ghost Tom is hot  I like Ghost Tom   Please bring back Ghost Tom.

Edited May 17, 2018 by cam3150

[Mysteyman]

Remember, that bloody shirt was from a shootout where they believed Reddington was alone.

Harold even introduced it as "a shirt PRESUMED to belong to Raymond Reddington"

The FBI didn't breach the building until after Raymond was gone , they can't confirm he was alone.
He could have been about to say, " I am not Raymond Reddington"or "I am not her father".

[djinn]

I guessed the fake Reddington plot a while back. It seems that fake Red was so completely obsessed with Katarina Rostova, that he just desperately wanted to believe that her daughter was his too. It's pretty likely that he offed Real Red, with Katarina's and her dad's knowledge (and approval?) Real Red must have been Katarina's spy mission and Liz's dad. Looking forward to Liz and half-sis working together next season.

So happy Samar woke up, looking gorgeous.

[preeya]

13 minutes ago, djinn said:

So happy Samar woke up, looking gorgeous.

Being in a coma on television is better than having a makeover.

[Brian Cronin]

"Now THIS is over the line!"

For serious, Liz?

[dwmarch]

5 hours ago, MostlyC said:

Tom!  Oh, how I miss him.

I also miss the crew from Redemption and I wish at least one of them would show up already! I know we had Tom's mom on babysitting detail but that whole team was a bunch of mercenary killers and by and large they liked Tom so where are they?

4 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

It does amuse me that Raymond is still committing cold blooded murder in front of the FBI people, and they do nothing about it.

I think it's how casual he is about it that stuns them. He just blows someone away and they're standing there thinking "did he really just do that?" while he saunters off. Of course in real life if you are holding a juice box that looks even slightly like a gun a dozen cops will blow you away if you point it in their general direction but who ever said this show resembled real life?

4 hours ago, tljgator said:

Man, being in a coma does wonders for everyone's hair on this show. First Lizzie, now Samar. The proposal acceptance was predictable, but her flowing locks distracted me -- if that was the intent, well done, show. 

In all fairness Samar was only in that coma for 42 minutes or so!

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

As for the episode in general I figured the escape from the blacksite was a ploy mainly because Elizabeth has done it before and it made sense narratively speaking.

 

Except for the part where an FBI black site has ventilation ducts that two people can crawl through. I'll call it a Die Hard reference and say fair enough.

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Fun how Aram can get from wherever they were to the hospital and onto that ward/floor in about 2 seconds. And yeah, all those nurses and doctors are just standing around in Samar's room because there isn't anything else to do. And Samar wakes up from a coma all fresh and bright eyed and ready to get married. All righty then.

That was absurd! Half the hospital staff standing around in awe because they've never seen someone wake up before!

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Side note: Were they watching "It Happened One Night" at the same time as Lucy and Flynn were watching that exact same scene in Timeless? Inquiring minds want to know.

I liked how the guy took his kids to see the movie old enough to be public domain, hence free for the show to re-broadcast. Come on dude, take your kids to see Infinity War!

Edit: I also loved the contrast between Lizzie and her sister at the end. There's Lizzie in her leather jacket of vengeance trying to look badass. She looks childish compared to Fiona Dourif who looks like a boss even in a fuzzy blue sweater!

Edited May 17, 2018 by dwmarch

[Drusilla]

I think I've been in a coma with Drippy Lizzy and Samar (although I don't look half as rosy healthy with flowing locks) but didn't they test fake Red's DNA and turned out Fake Red is Liz's father? I mean, how, who, whaaaaaat?

Or did I dream that when Bobby Ewing was in the shower?

Answers please.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Much as I like Jon Waters, I'm still trying to figure out why he did a cameo for this show -- does he owe Spader money or something like that ?

How was Sutton Ross important enough to be ranked No. 17 on the Blacklist ?  He didn't really kill many people, and didn't pose a serious threat to the US or the rest of the world.
He was little more than a bag (of bones) man.  Even worse, Team Post Office had never heard of him prior to this episode, though it sounds like he was a wanted individual who had gone on the lam.

[StarBrand]

I agree the most shocking thing wasn't just that the bones are the real Red Reddington.

The shocking thing is that Liz completely pulled one over on Red and make him think he'd gotten away with it.  He doesn't know that she knows.  Although how long she can properly keep that a secret is anyone's guess..

So, who is this Not Red? I'm kind of still leaning towards the "is actually her mom" theory-how else to explain Red's parental protectiveness of her...?

[ForumWarVeteran]

I can’t wait for an entire season of Liz “mother of the year” Keen ignoring her only child to indulge in a personal vendetta.

[Johnny Dollar]

Why would not-Red even care if his not-much-of-a-secret was made public?  He would still have the same reputation, connections and power. Unless his real name is something not as cool, like Percy Purplington. 

I can’t remember why the sister was there. Did she have the real bag o’ bones?

I figured that the show would eventually end with Lizzie bringing down Red, but what is her plan exactly?  Half-Sis and Ghost-Tom don’t seem like they would be much help, and would the FBI jeopardize the Red Blacklist project just so Lizzie can settle a grudge?  They already have more than enough evidence to put him away for life. He shot someone right in front of the Director so credible witnesses shouldn’t be hard to come by. 

Why does Lizzie even care about a father she never knew?  Didn’t she already figure out that Red killed her stepdad?  She seemed to get over that pretty easily. 

I guess Agnes gets one more year living with Grandma. And still no mention of the dogs. 

It sure looks like they’re setting it up for Dembe to turn against Red. 

[TheGreenWave]

13 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

It does amuse me that Raymond is still committing cold blooded murder in front of the FBI people, and they do nothing about it.

And walks off WITH THE DUFFLE BAG.  Like the thing they have been helping Lizzie track down for the last half of the season.  WTF???

Ok, so the Not!Surprise was the fact that Spader is FakeRed and the bones prove that.  My question is: why in the hell did Garvey kill both the doctor friend and Tom to get the bones?  Was this explained and I missed it?  It's one thing for Garvey to want to get a hold of the duffle to give to Half-Sis, and quite another to go on a killing spree and kill the husband of an FBI agent for no apparent reason that I can deduce.

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Much as I like Jon Waters, I'm still trying to figure out why he did a cameo for this show -- does he owe Spader money or something like that ?

HA HA!  I thought the same thing - it's one thing to have him play a character, but JW was playing himself.  This gets the award of the Most Random Cameo in my book.

[misstwpherecool]

Predictable but the time filler games are over for now. Lizzies personal pursuit of number 17 indicated there might be more afoot than an apprehension followed by a q & a.

Did Lizzie knockout FBI or did the escapee at hq. Lizzie putting hand over camera could raise suspicions. Lizzie shreiks and shrills totally phony. I was hoping they gave the guy a vest and put in witness protection but then she would have to reveal the scam. But yes how the heck can an informant kill in front of  law enforcement.

I think Dembe is getting tired of the body count. He pulled the guys out of the elevator  and commented 'he didn't know about the bag' when Red killed the captured rent a crook.

If Lizzie's foster dad was a carny was fake red a grifter? But where did fake red get international spy and criminal skills?  Still have to go with a KGB double from the farm in BL Redemption.

Revenge driven Lizzie/MB much better and fun to watch.

Edited May 17, 2018 by misstwpherecool

[saber5055]

7 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Much as I like John Waters, I'm still trying to figure out why he did a cameo for this show -- does he owe Spader money or something like that ?

I came to say the same thing. Plus that scene went on forever, not like Leslie Jones, who talked Spader into giving her a quick few seconds and a line or two. So random and it didn't fit at all. I was waiting for Red to say "I really liked Pink Flamingos."

6 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Why would not-Red even care if his not-much-of-a-secret was made public?  He would still have the same reputation, connections and power. Unless his real name is something not as cool, like Percy Purplington. 

This is what I don't get either. NotRed can out shoot the entire FBI force and manipulate pretty much anyone. Who cares what his name is.

I still don't get the "who is Lizzie's father" story line. Lizzie supposedly shot/killed her father when she was two, NotRed has burn scars on his back from Lizzie burning her house down. Weren't the RealRed bones buried in Katarina's yard?

It's all so confusing. Although watching for the weekly snark is still fun.

Plus Lizzie gave Agnes away so she could catch Garvey. Mission accomplished, but Lizzie will remain Mother Of The Year in her mind only I guess. I wonder if gramma bought Agnes a puppy in her "other" life.

12 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I think it's how casual he is about it that stuns them. He just blows someone away and they're standing there thinking "did he really just do that?" while he saunters off. Of course in real life if you are holding a juice box that looks even slightly like a gun a dozen cops will blow you away if you point it in their general direction but who ever said this show resembled real life?

I know, right? IRL you don't even have to be holding a juice box to get shot.

Does anyone know why Lizzie is such a special snowflake that NotRed does everything, literally, for her? I haven't seen it yet.

Edited May 17, 2018 by saber5055

[Mr-Slip]

16 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

The bones are the real Raymond Reddington, and this Raymond isn't Liz's father.  Yawn.  So what?  They still haven't answered any questions.

I wish Mr. Kaplan would turn up alive.

It does amuse me that Raymond is still committing cold blooded murder in front of the FBI people, and they do nothing about it.

       Then you arent familiar with the story of Whitey Bulger being a real life snitch for the FBI ....   that alone tells you what the FBI can do with 'informants'

[milkyaqua]

Echoing everyone else that the reveal was no big surprise.  It could have only been the read Red or Katrina...ho hum.  Even JB in an article yesterday said that most of the regular viewers had pretty much already put the mystery together and the finale was just going to conform it.  So now we get a shortened season six of Lizzie and her half-sis scheming to take down FakeRed.  How is this interesting?

Lizzie doing some thing somewhat smart is always surprising so good bluff getting captured by Ross because I was sure based on the preview that she made a typical Lizzie-boneheaded move and got captured.  However, why go to all this length to try and fool FakeRed?  And yes, why would anyone care that FakeRed isn't the real Red?  I really don't care about Liz and her vendetta  but it would be nice if TPTB answered those questions.

Glad Samar woke up and yes her hair looked great but all the people surrounding the room made is seem like there had been some Holy Resurrection which was sort of silly.  I hope the two get married during the off season so we don't have to spend part of S6 watching Aram making googly eyes and talking about wedding plans...

Dembe did seem to be a little over it when Red killed the driver, so that could be interesting to play in S6.  Brian Dennehy is always good to see but what are he and FakeRed to one another?  Will Lizzie track him down and get him to help take Red down?  It would be interesting if S6 is everyone teaming up to take Red down.

Red shooting Ross and then nonchalantly walking off with the duffel while the FBI looked on stunned was standard stuff but still annoying.  How far does Red have to go before someone reacts and just shoots or arrests him?

We shall not talk of the random John Waters cameo...

Edited May 17, 2018 by milkyaqua

[Mr-Slip]

5 minutes ago, milkyaqua said:

Echoing everyone else that the reveal was no big surprise.  It could have only been the read Red or Katrina...ho hum.  Even JK in an article yesterday said that most of the regular viewers had pretty already put the mystery together and the finale was just going to conform it.  So now we get a shortened season six of Lizzie and her half-sis scheming to take down FakeRed.  How is this interesting?

Lizzie doing some thing somewhat smart is always surprising so good bluff getting captured by Ross because I was sure based on the preview that she made a typical Lizzie-boneheaded move and got captured.  However, why go to all this length to try and fool FakeRed?  And yes, why would anyone care that FakeRed isn't the real Red?  I really don't care about Liz and her vendetta  but it would be nice if TPTB answered those questions.

Glad Samar woke up and yes her hair looked great but all the people surrounding the room made is seem like there had been some Holy Resurrection which was sort of silly.  I hope the two get married during the off season so we don't have to spend part of S6 watching Aram making googly eyes and talking about wedding plans...

Dembe did seem to be a little over it when Red killed the driver, so that could be interesting to play in S6.  Brian Dennehy is always good to see but what are he and FakeRed to one another?  Will Lizzie track him down and get him to help take Red down?  It would be interesting if S6 is everyone teaming up to take Red down.

Red shooting Ross and then nonchalantly walking off with the duffel while the FBI looked on stunned was standard stuff but still annoying.  How far does Red have to go before someone reacts and just shoots or arrests him?

We shall not talk of the random John Waters cameo...

    What could explain a lot is if the Fake Red is really Katarina in drag (or after sex change surgery)...  surely would explain why she loves Liz and would do anything for her...  and the whole  thing about the old guy in the woods and why he cant stand the fact that this his 'daughter' Katarina is now a 'man'...   and the other old guy who was killed in the bed by the Fake Red with the pillow...   and two episodes which make much more sense under this premise is the one 'out of the ordinary' episode where Fake Red 'finds' Katarina in some old beach house/resort near the beach and ends up watching Katarina walk out into the water..  how many 'psycho' thrillers have you seen where a mentally ill person (crazy) if you will has these sort of 'day dreams'...   and the other episode Mr Kaplan was 'found' by Katarina and only dealt with Katarina when she had Liz around as a baby...   would explain why she was suddenly so 'into' Fake Red..

   Of course, this is just speculation..  though it certainly does answer some questions :) 

[milkyaqua]

As for the DNA test, anyone that's ever watched any soap opera (day or night) knows what happens to DNA tests almost all the time...

[saber5055]

56 minutes ago, Mr-Slip said:

What could explain a lot is if the Fake Red is really Katarina in drag (or after sex change surgery)...  surely would explain why she loves Liz and would do anything for her.

Oh, that would be SO COOL and make sitting through six seasons of this convoluted mess worth it. Or FakeRed takes off his Tom Cruise/Mission Impossible face mask and reveals he's really ... oh, think of someone because I can't.

[Drusilla]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

Oh, that would be SO COOL and make sitting through six seasons of this convoluted mess worth it. Or FakeRed takes off his Tom Cruise/Mission Impossible face mask and reveals he's really ... oh, think of someone because I can't.

The fairground haunted house janitor, and if it wasn't for you meddling Feds....

[Dowel Jones]

Maybe he's the real Mr. Kaplan.

[Brian Cronin]

15 hours ago, Drusilla said:

I think I've been in a coma with Drippy Lizzy and Samar (although I don't look half as rosy healthy with flowing locks) but didn't they test fake Red's DNA and turned out Fake Red is Liz's father? I mean, how, who, whaaaaaat?

Or did I dream that when Bobby Ewing was in the shower?

Answers please.

The DNA test was done using something from the original Red. That was the moment everyone said, "Oh, so this is not the real Red," because there's no other explanation for the FBI to get a DNA sample from a 35 year old item of Red's and not from an object from the HUNDREDS of times that they've interacted with the current Red. So once they specified that they were testing an object from the past to prove Liz was Red's daughter, our collective ears perked up and said, "Oh, so then this Red is a fake who took over from the real Red."

[ottoDbusdriver]

8 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I still don't get the "who is Lizzie's father" story line. Lizzie supposedly shot/killed her father when she was two, NotRed has burn scars on his back from Lizzie burning her house down.

Let's not forget they still haven't explained how Lizzie got the scar on her right arm, or why the scar on her right arm matched the symbol on Tom's box under the floorboards in their house way back in S1.

As for Lizzie's father, I really don't care anymore so I'm just going to spin the 'Wheel of Paternity' and hoping that it turns up Chewbacca.

[Ottis]

What exactly is Liz good at? She wrecked her car and injured herself in pursuit. She was taken hostage (again) by the bad guy to solve her own personal quest, and used as leverage so he could escape. She belatedly realized she should have left the bones alone, because it was Red’s to know. Thanks, Lizzie, for wasting everyone’s time.... and risking lives.... for a quest you eventually realized was pointless.  I’ve lost count of how many times she has apologized to the rest of the team for someone getting injured. And they always say, “No, no, you were right!” So stupid.

The scene with the fake vans used music and styling that was almost 1980s Miami Vice. Man, I miss that show. Well, the first season or two. 

I don’t care who Red is or who Lizzy’s father is and I don’t know why Red is hiding it. Dump Lizzie, Blacklist. You’ll be better for it. Literally. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Ottis

[luvly]

11 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

My question is: why in the hell did Garvey kill both the doctor friend and Tom to get the bones?  Was this explained and I missed it?  It's one thing for Garvey to want to get a hold of the duffle to give to Half-Sis, and quite another to go on a killing spree and kill the husband of an FBI agent for no apparent reason that I can deduce.

This actually puts something Garvey said in 5x19 in much better context now. He told Liz, "Now I get it. Reddington and your husband, how they knew each other. Reddington didn't know you through him. He knew him through you." Way back in the beginning of the season, Tom swiped Liz's ID so Pete could get into CODIS and identify the bones. Pete did, but his search alerted Garvey, who sent his goons after him. Pete fled, Tom told Nik he couldn't get in touch with him and Nik stopped by to check up on him and got strangled by the goons for his efforts. Tom and Pete's girlfriend tracked Pete down, Garvey eventually killed the last two and Tom saved himself by lying and saying he worked for Red and could deliver him. Tom's lie saved him in the short-term but doomed him in the long run because Garvey didn't know they had the same goal. 

[kassygreene]

A pharmaceuticals plant in Adams Morgan?!?!?!?!?  Adams Morgan is a tony, upscale, expensive, and fun neighborhood about a mile and a half north of the White House.  Pharmaceuticals are not manufactured in a place with land values that high.  This show gets distance wrong much more impressively than The X-Files or  NCIS, but the economical idiocy of a pharmaceuticals plant inside the District, let alone Adams Morgan?  C'mon!

[Dowel Jones]

They did much the same thing on 24.  I remember one episode where Bauer landed a 737 on Hwy 118 out there in the northern part of the San Fernando Valley.  Out in the suburbs, where it's mostly a below grade freeway, too.  No problem.

[Kelda Feegle]

5 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

As for Lizzie's father, I really don't care anymore so I'm just going to spin the 'Wheel of Paternity' and hoping that it turns up Chewbacca.

That would explain the lovely hair (this season)

No blow-back at all for Aram the Weak and Wussy for getting creepazoid his suicide pill from the evidence lock up.

[Manda317]

It isn't that I can't accept Red as anyone else than Liz's father, but it leaves a lot unexplained. Why does he love her so much? Why is he willing to do anything to protect her? If he is really Katarina, why does he care some much about Naomi? Did any of the last few episodes explain why he wanted to see Jennifer? Red has always said that Liz would be hurt if the world knew he wasn't Reddington. Why would Liz be hurt? Why did Red hate Tom so much? He said that Tom wasn't who he said he was. Who lived in the house that he blew up? Did he have his own family before he took on this identity? I just want to watch a season of this show with questioning everything lol.

[TheGreenWave]

4 hours ago, Manda317 said:

It isn't that I can't accept Red as anyone else than Liz's father, but it leaves a lot unexplained. Why does he love her so much? Why is he willing to do anything to protect her? If he is really Katarina, why does he care some much about Naomi? Did any of the last few episodes explain why he wanted to see Jennifer? Red has always said that Liz would be hurt if the world knew he wasn't Reddington. Why would Liz be hurt? Why did Red hate Tom so much? He said that Tom wasn't who he said he was. Who lived in the house that he blew up? Did he have his own family before he took on this identity? I just want to watch a season of this show with questioning everything lol.

Waaaay too many questions.  I'm not sure why Red hated Tom - since didn't he know from the beginning that Tom (a.k.a. Christopher) was working with Berlin and scamming Liz?  Or maybe I'm misremembering because I feel like there are just too many threads here!

7 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

No blow-back at all for Aram the Weak and Wussy for getting creepazoid his suicide pill from the evidence lock up.

While I complain that there are too many questions, I am still not dissuaded from my extreme dislike of Aram.  Not only did he have no blow-back on the suicide pill, but he absolutely did not give two f*cks that he opened the door for Hostage Liz and Sutton Ross (funny how she obviously knew that he would do that otherwise her Master Plan To Trick Red would not have worked if they couldn't get out of the Post Office) and just proceeded to clickity-clack on his computer like no big deal that he had done what everyone else was saying NOT to do (and Red still manages to get blamed for "putting Liz in danger" by Harold - how exactly??  Aram is the one that let them both out FFS!!!)

[Gothish520]

On 5/16/2018 at 10:27 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

And for the last time this season, still no sign of the dogs.  And not even a mention of Agnes.  Agnes who ?

I get that "no sign of the dogs" is a running joke, but Lizzie has mentioned Agnes several times this season - she doesn't have to mention her in EVERY episode.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Gothish520

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, TheGreenWave said:

While I complain that there are too many questions, I am still not dissuaded from my extreme dislike of Aram.  Not only did he have no blow-back on the suicide pill, but he absolutely did not give two f*cks that he opened the door for Hostage Liz and Sutton Ross (funny how she obviously knew that he would do that otherwise her Master Plan To Trick Red would not have worked if they couldn't get out of the Post Office) and just proceeded to clickity-clack on his computer like no big deal that he had done what everyone else was saying NOT to do (and Red still manages to get blamed for "putting Liz in danger" by Harold - how exactly??  Aram is the one that let them both out FFS!!!)

I love Aram and even I was like, dude wtf? when he gave the code. 

But I was all about that hospital scene with Samar. I want a lovely, tasteful wedding and a sweet, classy little cocktail party reception for those two crazy kids. 

[saber5055]

13 hours ago, luvly said:

This actually puts something Garvey said in 5x19 in much better context now. He told Liz, "Now I get it. Reddington and your husband, how they knew each other. Reddington didn't know you through him. He knew him through you."

The show can't get this straight. When Tom went to visit Lizzie's step dad in the hospital (after Red had killed him already), the two sat on the bench outside the hospital as strangers, lamenting about loss. It was just those two, and it was made clear Tom did not know Red. Then some episodes/seasons later, we learn Red hired Tom to court Lizzie to keep her safe, and then irked Red by falling in love with her and getting (fake) married. So Tom didn't know Red when Red hired him? Okay, I guess since Tom was a hired assassin he might not know who hired him, but surely he could figure it out. Like in 10 minutes.

2 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

While I complain that there are too many questions, I am still not dissuaded from my extreme dislike of Aram. 

I'm right there with you. I liked him when he was a nerdy type of brilliant IT guy but now that he's suppose to be some bad ass (*cough*) full member of an elite (*cough*) crack FBI black ops team, he couldn't be more unlikable. He's been a screw up that would get him fired IRL, if not jailed for a while. For the life of me, I don't see what Samar sees in him, given some hot guys who have been in her past. Unless she's all for someone to stay home and bake cookies while she's out kicking ass. Then I can see it.

2 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I get that "no sign of the dogs" is a running joke, but Lizzie has mentioned Agnes several times this season - she doesn't have to mention her in EVERY episode.

She uses having given birth so she can emote "I'm a mother too" when confronting some female suspect, like that gives her the gravitas to "understand" that person. She never mentions that she dumped the kid off and never goes to see her. IMO it's better if Agnes is never mentioned, as forgotten as all three dogs, rather than used as some subplot to make us go, "Ooh, Lizzie is kind and sweet because she's a mom " Barf on that. And now that Garvey is dead, her reason for dumping Agnes in the first place, off she goes on another personal vendetta. Yeah, you're a great mom Lizzie.

Which brings me to: What is her vendetta against Red, whether he's real or fake? I don't get it. Yeah, he and the FBI have used each other, but he saved Lizzie's ass more than once, and kept her hidden while she was on the lam as a murderer. So that's good reason to, what, take the guy down? All righty then.

[Drusilla]

2 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

The show can't get this straight. When Tom went to visit Lizzie's step dad in the hospital (after Red had killed him already), the two sat on the bench outside the hospital as strangers, lamenting about loss. It was just those two, and it was made clear Tom did not know Red. Then some episodes/seasons later, we learn Red hired Tom to court Lizzie to keep her safe, and then irked Red by falling in love with her and getting (fake) married. So Tom didn't know Red when Red hired him? Okay, I guess since Tom was a hired assassin he might not know who hired him, but surely he could figure it out. Like in 10 minutes.

I'm right there with you. I liked him when he was a nerdy type of brilliant IT guy but now that he's suppose to be some bad ass (*cough*) full member of an elite (*cough*) crack FBI black ops team, he couldn't be more unlikable. He's been a screw up that would get him fired IRL, if not jailed for a while. For the life of me, I don't see what Samar sees in him, given some hot guys who have been in her past. Unless she's all for someone to stay home and bake cookies while she's out kicking ass. Then I can see it.

She uses having given birth so she can emote "I'm a mother too" when confronting some female suspect, like that gives her the gravitas to "understand" that person. She never mentions that she dumped the kid off and never goes to see her. IMO it's better if Agnes is never mentioned, as forgotten as all three dogs, rather than used as some subplot to make us go, "Ooh, Lizzie is kind and sweet because she's a mom " Barf on that. And now that Garvey is dead, her reason for dumping Agnes in the first place, off she goes on another personal vendetta. Yeah, you're a great mom Lizzie.

Which brings me to: What is her vendetta against Red, whether he's real or fake? I don't get it. Yeah, he and the FBI have used each other, but he saved Lizzie's ass more than once, and kept her hidden while she was on the lam as a murderer. So that's good reason to, what, take the guy down? All righty then.

All of this and particularly as they trot out the old spirit who gives up some info to the living trope. They are STILL using Tom as a plot device.  Imagine if they'd actually done something real with his character? No wonder Ryan Eggold left for greener pastures.