S05.E21: The Force of Gravity

[paigow]

Daisy's future as the destroyer of worlds could take a critical change.

 

[MisterGlass]

Fitz, Simmons, you're forgetting the part where the person turns berserker before they self-destruct.  Officially mad scientists.

[tennisgurl]

Spoiler

When Elena was pushed back from running and starting going backwards, I swear for a second, I thought Thanos had already arrived, and she had turned to ash. Now I am partially convinced that Coulson gets better next week, only for him, and half the team, to turn into dust. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Froippi]

Saving Billions always the bigger picture sorry have to let Coulson go as much as the Agents don’t want to

Edited May 12, 2018 by Froippi

[HunterHunted]

This shouldn't even be a question. Save billions or Coulson? Umm, the last time Coulson died, it motivated the Avengers to save the world. History would tell you that Coulson should die.

However, if Robin gets an Infinity gauntlet prediction that confuses GraviTalbot "half the world will die if Thanos gets all of the stones," I can see GraviTalbot being bsc enough to take a chance to pull up all of the gravitonium to stop Thanos.

Edited May 12, 2018 by HunterHunted

[tennisgurl]

I mean, come on guys, this shouldn't be that hard of a question. Save Coulson, or save the whole world? Billions of people, or one? Yeah, it certainly sucks that Coulson would have to die, but I think he would be the first one to tell them to give up on him to save the world. Thats kinda their job, right? 

So, while Thanos and his goons are going on their rampage, there is yet another, basically unrelated, supervillain about to cause havoc too? Never a dull moment in the MCU, as much as its residents probably wish for some dull moments from time to time. It sucks seeing what happened to Talbot. I dont see him surviving this, and that really sucks that this is his last arc. he could be a real prick, but he meant well, and ended up being one of the good guys before all of this mess. Like Coulson said, who would have guessed we would end up worried about Glenn Talbot? 

May and Coulson make out! And Daisy is basically like "May and Coulson, sittin in a tree..."

Edited May 12, 2018 by tennisgurl

[CaptainTightpants]

Poor Carl! His life is just one long raw deal. 

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

May and Coulson make out! And Daisy is basically like "May and Coulson, sittin in a tree..."

Haha, yes, and I don't care how silly it was for them to kiss while getting shot at - it was a welcome bit of levity (and romance).

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

May and Coulson make out! And Daisy is basically like "May and Coulson, sittin in a tree..."

A highlight of the show's 5 years.  I love how happy Daisy was that May and Coulson finally kissed, she saw mom and dad stop ignoring it and kiss.

I also love that Coulson used his own version of Cap's shield.  He's still a fanboy.

[Vikitty]

Can Coulson just be kissing people (May) all the time, because DAMN that was probably one of the hottest kisses in the entire MCU.

[Lantern7]

I think this might be the end of the line . . . not just for Coulson, but for AoS in general. From what I understand, it's still on the bubble, and Inhumans got kicked into the bottomless pit earlier. I know, several degrees of separation, and the same thing happened with Agent Carter, but if you want a sixth season, it doesn't look good. Then again, I have no idea how AoS would be able to mesh with the events in Infinity War (see below). Also, if Coulson dies, Daisy would be in charge. I know May prefers busting heads, but wouldn't she be a better fit?

Talbot goes insane. Well, insaner. I like Pasdar's take over the Hulk version, and I preferred that movie to Incredible Hulk. Talbot is the most stubborn son of a bitch in the series . . . naturally, he'd get the ability to control gravity, and slowly go mad. Once again, it's a shame he probably was never ever considered to fight Thanos. It'd be a short fight, but Talbot would've had the best lines.

Billions vs. Coulson? I vote billions. Clerk Gregg has done a lot with what was supposed to be a minor character in Iron Man. Phil got killed and brought back to life, and I'm not upset with that almost five years later. And he got that kiss from May, so you know he's doomed. And maybe May as well, especially if Daisy would be leader in a potential S6. If they both bite it, I'm thinking of one scene with them admiring a Tahitian sunset.

Okay, as for my concerns about AoS and the Infinity War tie-ins. . .

Spoiler

On the screen, that's New York City with the carnage, right? Now . . . I can't remember where the Fury/Hill scene (the final final one) took place. Would we have seen New York after Thanos came for Doctor Strange's Infinity Stone? Or would the footage be from people fading out and various vehicles being unmanned, like in that last scene? Honestly, I have no idea how there could be a S6. Traveling back to the past? Or maybe shelve it for a year and come back after the fourth movie in Fall 2019?

[ohjoy]

It may just be paranoia, but Coulson’s coyness with Daisy post-kiss (coupled with the way the kiss itself was framed) gives me Angel Season 5 vibes. Not that it wasn’t a great kiss, and great for Philinda fans, but for some reason I think there’s a tangential reveal coming.

[snowwhyte]

I'd like to think that none of them would argue for saving Colson over the rest of the planet particularly since they've seen the future and know that most of them don't survive it either. I do think that they will still ignore future Yoyo's warning and think that there must still be some way to both save Colson and kill Talbot. 

[Lobsel Vith]

Daisy was able to rescue herself, which was nice (I'm glad it wasn't used to force some asinine SlaverQuake moment, and I still wish he wasn't on the show).

Fitz is still a jerk in this episode. The danger of Fitz going full Ward is no longer being mentioned, except (in a roundabout way) by Mack, who chastised Fitz over his recent behavior, and Fitz was acting like a passive aggressive jerk about it this episode, as if Mack didn't have every right to be upset with him. It makes no sense that the show dropped this given the genuine threat Fitz posed and the people he's hurt, and the show handwaving this - especially after it immediately handwaved what Fitz did in the Framework - is annoying.

 Hmmm... I get the feeling that Coulson will have to die in order to stop Gravitron.

[VCRTracking]

Yes! That Philinda kiss was epic and OTT and five seasons in the making and I loved it! Loved Daisy's reaction to her "parents" and Deke in the background.

Now I know they love Coulson and there going to try to find a way somehow tp use the Centipede serum to save him and stop Talbot but if there isn't there shouldn't be a debate at all what the team should do. Coulson would definitely NOT be okay with the world broken apart and millions of people dead because of him. In a way this ties in with Infinity War not just in the mentions of what happened in New York but in trading one life for millions and the ethics.

Edited May 12, 2018 by VCRTracking

[StarBrand]

Loved Daisy's reaction to the Phillinda moment;

"Not a word Agent Johnson. That's an order!"

"Copy that...hot lipsss..."

"Soooo, you made out with May..."

"Did I?"

"Oooooh yeah...."

[HunterHunted]

12 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I think this might be the end of the line . . . not just for Coulson, but for AoS in general. From what I understand, it's still on the bubble, and Inhumans got kicked into the bottomless pit earlier. I know, several degrees of separation, and the same thing happened with Agent Carter, but if you want a sixth season, it doesn't look good. Then again, I have no idea how AoS would be able to mesh with the events in Infinity War (see below).

I literally have no idea how a season 6 would fit with the film side of the MCU. I have a big fear that it would be a ton of wheel spinning like season 1 as the show waited until Avengers 4 came out. That's something I never want to watch on TV again. 

Quote

Talbot goes insane. Well, insaner. I like Pasdar's take over the Hulk version, and I preferred that movie to Incredible Hulk. Talbot is the most stubborn son of a bitch in the series . . . naturally, he'd get the ability to control gravity, and slowly go mad. Once again, it's a shame he probably was never ever considered to fight Thanos. It'd be a short fight, but Talbot would've had the best lines.

I would have loved to watch GraviTalbot fight Thanos. Talk about an ego off. Those are two arrogant bastards.

Quote

Okay, as for my concerns about AoS and the Infinity War tie-ins. . .

  Hide contents

On the screen, that's New York City with the carnage, right? Now . . . I can't remember where the Fury/Hill scene (the final final one) took place. Would we have seen New York after Thanos came for Doctor Strange's Infinity Stone? Or would the footage be from people fading out and various vehicles being unmanned, like in that last scene? Honestly, I have no idea how there could be a S6. Traveling back to the past? Or maybe shelve it for a year and come back after the fourth movie in Fall 2019?

Spoiler

I think we would have seen footage of New York.

I think Nick Fury and Maria Hill were in New York.

The Q ship lands in New York. Peter was on his way to MoMA; Strange and Wong were getting lunch. This probably puts the time of the first attack between 10 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. Tony, Bruce, Wong, Strange, and Peter take on half of the Black Order. Strange is taken by the Black Order on a Q ship. Tony and Peter follow and board the ship as it makes its way to Titan. Maybe this battle takes place over the space of an hour.

The other half of the Black Order attack Vision and Wanda in Scotland at night. Steve, Nat, and Sam come and help. They defeat the Black Order. They all head back to the Avengers Compound in upstate New York. They meet up with Bruce. They form a plan. They head to Wakanda. They meet up with T'Challa and Bucky.

I haven't been able to make sense of the lost time between the New York and Scotland attacks. There is a 5 hour time difference between the two locations. It was roughly mid morning to lunch time in New York during the first battle. It was night in Scotland. Meaning that the Black Order waited for hours before heading to Scotland.

A flight from New York to London is 5 or 6 hours. A flight from New York to roughly where Wakanda should be in Africa is 15 to 16 hours. Even if we assume absolute expediency, technology that is 50% faster than regular commercial flights, and factor in the delay between the New York and Scotland attacks, means that they probably arrive in Wakanda a full 20 - 24 hours after the first Q ship touches down in New York. It's the delay between the New York and Scotland battles that kills the timing. Though I imagine the movie is cheating a bit and has them arrive in Wakanda a bit earlier in the morning and has the battle in Wakanda take place throughout the day. Regardless, the best version of the math puts "The Snap" anywhere from 24 - 36 hours after the Q ship touches down and the fight with the Black Order in New York.

This is a long winded way of saying there was enough time for the news to cover the destruction in New York City.

Edited May 12, 2018 by HunterHunted

[paigow]

9 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

 

A flight from New York to London is 5 or 6 hours. A flight from New York to roughly where Wakanda should be in Africa is 15 to 16 hours.

Steve Rogers Radio Commercial: Skipping TSA & Customs is why I carry the "American Express Avenger Advantage Card"

[kitlee625]

19 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

Fitz, Simmons, you're forgetting the part where the person turns berserker before they self-destruct.  Officially mad scientists.

Yeah, this doesn't seem like a good idea, and how do they know that the Odium won't overload Talbot's powers so that he destroys the world anyway?

 

I also agree with everyone above that it's not even a dilemma in my mind. How can they possibly save Coulson if it's going to result in the destruction of the planet? This is the dumbest/easiest choice ever. Of course, that's one of the reasons why I think Coulson is probably going to be saved by some "deus ex machina" next episode, because it's too obvious for him to die. And I don't think the writers have the guts to do it.

 

Overall the first part of the episode felt so slow, and the whole Daisy-Papa Kasius scene was like a boring high school play. All the action and excitement was in the second half. But I did like when we got to see Mack and Elena tracking down Talbot, and May and Deke fighting those alien guys and escaping. The rest of it felt like it was slowly putting all the pieces together for the finale.

Edited May 12, 2018 by kitlee625

[Froippi]

21 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

Yeah, this doesn't seem like a good idea, and how do they know that the Odium won't overload Talbot's powers so that he destroys the world anyway?

 

I also agree with everyone above that it's not even a dilemma in my mind. How can they possibly save Coulson if it's going to result in the destruction of the planet? This is the dumbest/easier choice ever. Of course, that's one of the reasons why I think Coulson is probably going to be saved by some "deus ex machina" next episode, because it's too obvious for him to die. And I don't think the writers have the guts to do it.

 

Overall the first part of the episode felt so slow, and the whole Daisy-Papa Kasius scene was like a boring high school play. All the action and excitement was in the second half. But I did like when we got to see Mack and Elena tracking down Talbot, and May and Deke fighting those alien guys and escaping. The rest of it felt like it was slowly putting all the pieces together for the finale.

 

This is how I felt the episode felt to slow for my liking the action scenes were good but overall the episode felt to slow for me 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Froippi

[blueray]

2 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

Overall the first part of the episode felt so slow, and the whole Daisy-Papa Kasius scene was like a boring high school play. All the action and excitement was in the second half. But I did like when we got to see Mack and Elena tracking down Talbot, and May and Deke fighting those alien guys and escaping. The rest of it felt like it was slowly putting all the pieces together for the finale.

Me too. Not only because I like them as characters and their relationship but it was nice to have a storyline that is more like what Shield used to be which is protecting people of Earth from outside threats.

 

I was also bored with Daisy and Kasius, as we already saw her act with his son earlier in the season. It was good that she kicked his ass though. I glad that they managed to destroy that ship, so that the only real threat left is Telbort which can be taking care of in the finale.  I agree this isn't any dilemma, of course they let Coulson die to defeat Talbot. The whole world as at stake and Talbot sadly is a lost cause at this point.  If they get a six season (or they know that they are going too), I agree they will find another way to save Coulson.  I liked that Coulson finally kissed May.

[Quark]

I'm sad that this season (and possibly series) is very nearly over.

It's been a great ride.

[Terrafamilia]

I keep wondering just how compressible gravitonium is anyway because, boy, Talbot sure can pack it away.

[Chaos Theory]

This  episode is really playing out like the writers know there won't be another season.  There were ALOT of callbacks and alot of lines that make me think that the show is basically over but then at least we are getting a pretty good series finale if it is one .  

I actually enjoyed Daisy and Kasius.  I thought the scene worked out exceptionally well.  One of my favorite scenes of the episode.  Then again I really like Daisy and have from the start.  I have enjoyed her journey.  

I am not sure its a dilemma as to whether to save Coulson or the world but how it effects everyone.  Of course they will probably chose the world but maybe that is what ends up setting off Daisy.  Or possibly Coulson is the one person who can reach both Talbot and Daisy and by NOT saving him THAT Is what sets off the appocolpsy.  By saving him he is able to stop both world ending things from happening.  

Still awesome episode.  My favorite lines were by FitzSimmons

Simmons: “We have come full circle.”

Fitz: “Just In time for the end of days.”

The kiss between Coulson and May was epic too though.  

[AKA...CJ86]

Talbot... not looking good in the outfit, my opinion of course.  Every time he absorbs something he gains a few pounds.  While insane yes, does he have to be the, everyone else I bad, I'm the good guy brand of crazy?  And now Polly and Robin dragged into it, too?

What I want: The gang chooses billions over Coulson.  

What will happen: The gang chooses Coulson and saves billions.  Somehow, it will be pulled off, and I'll cringe.

Side note, is Deke kinda... dumbing down... regressing... as each episode goes by?  

[Raja]

40 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

This  episode is really playing out like the writers know there won't be another season.  There were ALOT of callbacks and alot of lines that make me think that the show is basically over but then at least we are getting a pretty good series finale if it is one .  

I actually enjoyed Daisy and Kasius.  I thought the scene worked out exceptionally well.  One of my favorite scenes of the episode.  Then again I really like Daisy and have from the start.  I have enjoyed her journey.  

I am not sure its a dilemma as to whether to save Coulson or the world but how it effects everyone.  Of course they will probably chose the world but maybe that is what ends up setting off Daisy.  Or possibly Coulson is the one person who can reach both Talbot and Daisy and by NOT saving him THAT Is what sets off the appocolpsy.  By saving him he is able to stop both world ending things from happening.  

Still awesome episode.  My favorite lines were by FitzSimmons

Simmons: “We have come full circle.”

Fitz: “Just In time for the end of days.”

The kiss between Coulson and May was epic too though.  

Well they did say weeks ago that the plan was for it to serve as a series finale. If season 6 comes along then they will reassess. Season 4's finale also felt like a series finale to me.

[thuganomics85]

Well, it was fun while it lasted, Peter Mensah!  Granted, he was only going to be temporary since Midnight, Texas got renewed.  At least he got a cool fight scene to go out on.  Even if his last thoughts where that Deke of all people tricked him.  Hopefully this isn't it for Daddy Kassius/Craig Parker, so the former Spartacus actor quota remains intact!

Yep, Talbot has gone full-blown Machiavellian now, even though he still seems to be under the impression that he's a hero now.  But he barely seemed to realize how terrified his son was of him.  And then poor Carl Creel!  Yeah, I don't see how they can settle without shedding some blood.

I love how they keep dropping stories about Davis off-screen.  I really hope he sticks around.  Sad that Kim got taken down.

Coulson and May finally have that kiss... in the middle of a battle.  And in front of a dumbstruck Deke and giddy Daisy.  I wouldn't want it any other way!

So, the big reveal is that Fitz and Simmons got the implant to work, but they have two options: either a) use it to save Coulson or b) use it to take down Talbot.  And if they do the former, they are likely playing right into Future Yo-Yo's prophecy about trying to save Coulson means the end of the world.  Oh, shit!  Realistically, yeah, they really should use it to take out Talbot (even Coulson would want it that way), but I can see it going either way.  No matter what, I suspect it will mainly work out for everyone.

I do love that all of this is just apparently going on during Infinity War.  I can just see Thanos watching Talbot's antics from wherever he's at, chuckling, and saying "Amateur."

Definitely got the feeling that the show is preparing for the end (especially with Simmons "full circle" remark), but we shall see!

[paigow]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Definitely got the feeling that the show is preparing for the end (especially with Simmons "full circle" remark), but we shall see!

The loop will be broken when Team Coulson ends up here....

[silverstream]

Question under a spoiler cut due to Infinity War spoilers

Spoiler

Does anybody have an idea when 5x22 was written/filmed? I have a hard time believing that the A:IW production team shared any spoilers beyond "there's a battle in New York" with the Marvel television division beforehand, especially not the Snappening. Considering they must have had at least a general idea where they were planning on going with this season for a couple of months now, how sure can we be that it will actually tie into what happens in Infinity War beyond mentions of the battle in New York?

Of course, it's always possible that SHIELD fails and the season ends with the planet actually exploding.

[Raja]

I think that TV's security was proven during The Winter Soldier run up and maybe some divorce counseling took place as "the final season" and end of the movie phase were both in production. Or going into The End I will just hope it's done right after the failure of The Inhumans when this TV season started 

[paigow]

On 5/15/2018 at 1:43 AM, silverstream said:

Question under a spoiler cut due to Infinity War spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Does anybody have an idea when 5x22 was written/filmed? I have a hard time believing that the A:IW production team shared any spoilers beyond "there's a battle in New York" with the Marvel television division beforehand, especially not the Snappening. Considering they must have had at least a general idea where they were planning on going with this season for a couple of months now, how sure can we be that it will actually tie into what happens in Infinity War beyond mentions of the battle in New York?

Of course, it's always possible that SHIELD fails and the season ends with the planet actually exploding.

The Infinity War Comics should have let the Whedon Braintrust guess how the movies would go.... 

[Affogato]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, Terrafamilia said:

I keep wondering just how compressible gravitonium is anyway because, boy, Talbot sure can pack it away.

If he had access to enough he'd become a black hole.

[Affogato]

So, wasn't the original premise of the show that Shield was the guy with the tiny broom that sweeps up after the MCU movie heroes as the final credits play? It would be nice if it found those roots, in my opinion. 

Spoiler

In the aftermath of Thanos, the Kree may move in on earth in its weakened state, needing slaves to make up their own losses in manpower. Talbot resisting could cause the destruction of earth. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Affogato

[blueray]

6 hours ago, Affogato said:

So, wasn't the original premise of the show that Shield was the guy with the tiny broom that sweeps up after the MCU movie heroes as the final credits play? It would be nice if it found those roots, in my opinion. 

  Hide contents

In the aftermath of Thanos, the Kree may move in on earth in its weakened state, needing slaves to make up their own losses in manpower. Talbot resisting could cause the destruction of earth. 

 

 

Spoiler

the kree would be just as devastated by what happened. They also lost a lot of people. Unless that's why they need  the slaves.

Edited May 18, 2018 by blueray

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, blueray said:

 

  Hide contents

the kree would be just as devastated by what happened. They also lost a lot of people. Unless that's why they need  the slaves.

That’s what I was thinking. 

[TVSpectator]

2 hours ago, blueray said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

the kree would be just as devastated by what happened. They also lost a lot of people. Unless that's why they need  the slaves.

 

There was already mentioned how the Kree have slaves on GotG Vol 2. Yondu was once a slave for the Kree but somehow he either escaped and/or bought himself out of slavery, or something like that. This was mentioned while him, Baby Groot, and Rocket were talking to each other while Taserface took over the ship.

Edited May 18, 2018 by TVSpectator