S03.E19: Crisis of Confidence

[WendyCR72]

Dr. Manning rushes to save a young boy with a life-threatening case of the flu; April suspects Dr. Choi's sister stole opioid pain killers; Dr. Rhodes and Dr. Bekker disagree over the best treatment for a cardiac patient who is 21 weeks pregnant.

[spunky]

Does Natalie ever work independently? Writers please stop making Will Natalie's  prop, he can be an individual who happens to work with his girlfriend. So they brought in Emily just to ruin her, nice job guys. I understand that Dr. Charles cares about Reese but he's becoming a little too involved. The patient dying really broke Dr. Rhodes,  I really wanted him to be successful so that Bekker would shut up for once. 

[Reality police]

Ok, been thinking about this for a while. Unfortunately i have been in the ED several times in the last three years. It fascinates me that the doctor always is right there when the patient arrives. I have always had to get thru nurses, techs, x-rays, and assorted other stuff before I actually see a doctor. Another thing, any time I have had a procedure other than an x-Ray I have been admitted to a room. Never have I returned to the ED. I know these things are petty and that's the way the show has to be but I just needed to get it off my chest. Thanks for listening. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Reality police
Not pretty

[preeya]

SPINOFF:  Chicago Psychiatrist P.I. (Specialty: Cold Case Serial Killers)

ETA: I wonder who sent the clippings to Charles.

Edited May 9, 2018 by preeya

[watcher1006]

3 minutes ago, preeya said:

SPINOFF:  Chicago Psychiatrist P.I. (Specialty: Cold Case Serial Killers)

When I saw Dr. Charles - not a trained investigator - going through the Reese's father's storage space (not wearing gloves BTW) I thought of evidence for a possible prosecution being compromised. Law & Order franchise veteran here.

[Netfoot]

30 minutes ago, Reality police said:

I have always had to get thru nurses, techs, x-rays, and assorted other stuff before I actually see a doctor.

The longest I've had to wait to be seen in the ER was 15 hours and 40 minutes.  It wasn't actually for me, it was for an elderly patient I carried to the ER.  It took that long before they were examined and treated.

6 minutes ago, preeya said:

SPINOFF:  Chicago Psychiatrist P.I. (Specialty: Cold Case Serial Killers)

With any luck, Charles will become the next serial killer's victim, and we won't have to see him quacking his way around the hospital every week!

[LittleIggy]

St. Natalie is right again. ?

Go Detective Charles! Could you imagine donating a loved one’s heart then finding out that he is a serial killer.

[Reality police]

1 hour ago, watcher1006 said:

When I saw Dr. Charles - not a trained investigator - going through the Reese's father's storage space (not wearing gloves BTW) I thought of evidence for a possible prosecution being compromised. Law & Order franchise veteran here.

Me too! With all his friends with CPD, you would think he could find somebody to take an interest. 

[Ohwell]

8 hours ago, Netfoot said:

With any luck, Charles will become the next serial killer's victim, and we won't have to see him quacking his way around the hospital every week!

I used to like Dr. Charles, but now he's getting on my nerves and it wouldn't bother me at all if his snooping got him killed.    

[Guildford]

The actual medical part of this show is really just to prop up the angsty DRAMA of every single god damn Doctor in this place, isn't it. Like seriously, they should just have a dummy lie in a bed so that our merry cast of inept humans continue their melodrama without having to deal with those pesky patients and their annoying medical problems. 

Natalie is veering into St Gabby territory, always coming through with the miraculous save. What is it with the Halstead brothers & their propensity to propose to their women so that they can 'fix' their relationships. What? Manstead have been back together a week? Two weeks ago he was picking up in a bar.

Dr Charles.....shake my head. Why does everyone want to be a cop on these shows? ....Gabby over on Fire thinks she's a detective & now Dr Charles is joining her band of merry misfits.

Perhaps Rhodes could do the co-joined twin separation on Choi & April because those two are joined at the hip. Poor overdose guy was just there to further their angsty sister storyline.

I thought last week (apart from the ridiculous Manstead carry on) the actual episode was one of the strongest this season, this week we were back to the show we love to hate.

[GalvDuck]

I can't help but wonder if Haywood sent the clippings himself.  He's psychopathic enough to taunt Dr. Charles and try to bring attention to himself.  I'd like to think it was Dr. Reese, but how would she know and why not just come out and say something unless she's a bit psychopathic herself?  It's probably Dr. Reese's mom though (not sure if she's still "Mrs. Haywood" or not).  

Heck, they'll probably twist it all around and we'll find out Reese's mom is the killer because she was jealous of the young women Haywood was with.  That would really mess up Reese's mind.  

This show....SMH

[Xantar]

44 minutes ago, Guildford said:

The actual medical part of this show is really just to prop up the angsty DRAMA of every single god damn Doctor in this place, isn't it. Like seriously, they should just have a dummy lie in a bed so that our merry cast of inept humans continue their melodrama without having to deal with those pesky patients and their annoying medical problems. 

 

Have you seen Grey's Anatomy, The Night Shift, or Code Black? One thing I appreciate about Chicago Med is that the self-absorption of the doctors is really pretty low compared to those other shows. Unfortunately, if you want a focus on interesting medical cases, your best bet is probably documentaries.

[Driad]

7 minutes ago, Xantar said:

Unfortunately, if you want a focus on interesting medical cases, your best bet is probably documentaries.

Maybe PTV needs a forum for these.  Occasionally there is a documentary or miniseries of documentaries about a particular hospital.  I like them but have not found a place to discuss them.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Maybe when Reese’s father gets his strength back he can pick one of the women at Chicago Med to fixate on as his next victim—well, hello, simpering Dr Manning! Come into my storage unit! Now that would make me happy!

Does the hospital get to charge the patients’ insurance for both Manning and Halsted? I can’t believe they are joined at the hip now even to treat patients. 

Reese’s character has turned so naively sad and pathetic. Get her out of psych please.

A little tired of the dramatic create an airway like Dr Choi started the show with. And the point of his sister’s character is beyond me—so will Show let her existence now just fade away or will she get arrested for stealing drugs? I bet A. 

[Ohwell]

5 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Maybe when Reese’s father gets his strength back he can pick one of the women at Chicago Med to fixate on as his next victim—well, hello, simpering Dr Manning! Come into my storage unit! Now that would make me happy!

I love that scenario!

[statsgirl]

Welcome to Chicago Med, the hospital where there is incompetence in every department. Shouldn't the surgical team have told Rhodes they didn't have all the sizes of heart valves before he started to cut open the patient?

Anyone else think Choi's sister has a borderline personality disorder?  Most likely it's just the usual bad writing.

Poor Rhodes has the yips because .....? So that he can be tortured some more?  (No wonder Colin Donnell was so hyped about his return to Arrow last week.) I was watching with my daughter and she said that this show is an even bigger soap opera than Grey's Anatomy.

12 hours ago, Netfoot said:

The longest I've had to wait to be seen in the ER was 15 hours and 40 minutes.  It wasn't actually for me, it was for an elderly patient I carried to the ER.  It took that long before they were examined and treated.

That's an insane wait.

Waiting times are a problem here too.  So one of the hospitals has developed a program where a triage doctor, not just nurse, goes into the waiting room and triages the patients, handling the quick cases even before they get into a room. It's cut the wait time enormously.

11 hours ago, Reality police said:

Me too! With all his friends with CPD, you would think he could find somebody to take an interest. 

He did try though. But the police weren't interested. Apparently they have the same level of competence that Med does.

He really should have put gloves on though. It's not like he doesn't know where to get some.

[Netfoot]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

That's an insane wait.

Agreed.  6-8 hours is more usual.

[watcher1006]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Welcome to Chicago Med, the hospital where there is incompetence in every department. Shouldn't the surgical team have told Rhodes they didn't have all the sizes of heart valves before he started to cut open the patient?

I couldn't fathom that. They are undertaking a very high risk cardiovascular operation and they don't have their inventory ducks in a row.

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

He did try though. But the police weren't interested. Apparently they have the same level of competence that Med does.

He really should have put gloves on though. It's not like he doesn't know where to get some.

I just don't know. Some rural areas may not have the law enforcement resources to want to reopen cold cases but with possible serial cold cases near or in metropolitan areas - would all those departments be so indifferent to possible new evidence?

[GalvDuck]

3 hours ago, Driad said:

Maybe PTV needs a forum for these.  Occasionally there is a documentary or miniseries of documentaries about a particular hospital.  I like them but have not found a place to discuss them.

That's another reason I miss the IMDB forums.  They covered shows, movies, the actors, crew, and so on.  If it had a title or a name related to something on the screen (aside from commercials), there was probably a forum attached to its page.  So, you could find forums for documentaries.  I would like one for made-for-TV movies myself.  

[Sentient Meat]

So Charles has a moral quandary over giving Reese a heads up about her dad... but has none over breaking and entering into his property?

I suppose the writers would say in the case of stopping murder you can do more, but I think that writing is inconsistent regarding his character.

[preeya]

3 hours ago, Sentient Meat said:

So Charles has a moral quandary over giving Reese a heads up about her dad... but has none over breaking and entering into his property?

I suppose the writers would say in the case of stopping murder you can do more, but I think that writing is inconsistent regarding his character.

 

And you can bet that when he does confront her with his speculations/accusations (choose one) she's going to go totally ballistic on him. That is if he doesn't get arrested or worse before he has the opportunity.

[rhys]

Dr Charles called the Madison WI police. He should have called the C PD since he knows some of them& given them the envelope of clipping s.

[Guildford]

9 hours ago, rhys said:

Dr Charles called the Madison WI police. He should have called the C PD since he knows some of them& given them the envelope of clipping s.

And as we know, in this universe the only competent cops are the Intelligence Unit & they were busy with the battle of the dirty cops.

[greyhorse]

Do all ER doctors spend so much time outside the hospital treating patients at the scene, and then following that said patient to the ER?  Seems to happen a lot with Choi.  I get that Emily called him, but it just seems odd that he's treating so many patients outside of the hospital.  And when he puts the smoke pipe into the OD kid's trachea, he announces "I'm in!"  Force of habit, I suppose?  Who is he announcing that he is in to?

40 pills of Percocet is $2400?  I don't remember the exact number, but it was something like $60 a pill!!!  And what exactly is "Hospital grade Percocet"?  I don't think there's such a thing.  There's stronger doses of Percocet, but you can still get those in the pharmacy.  I think I could probably get a prescription for a whole bottle of Percocet filled at the pharmacy for my $15 co-pay.  How is one pill worth $60?!?

I feel bad for doctors.  Connor avoids the "safe" route which would be to perform a hysterectomy and therefore lose the baby.  But he tries to be heroic and tries a risky procedure, only for it to fail and then the woman and baby both die.  So now the patient's mother is understandably angry and will probably sue him, although we of course don't see that.  Natalie avoids the "safe" or standard procedure of putting the child on ECMO, and instead opts for the risky and experimental procedure of the fluid in the lungs.  She gets lucky that the kid had that condition that would have caused an allergic reaction if he was put on ECMO, and the fluid procedure works.  So she is celebrated and hugged by the child's mother.  What would have happened if the fluid procedure didn't work?  And if the kid really didn't have that condition and would have done well with the ECMO?  The mother would have had the same reaction that Connor's patient's mother had.  Doctors just can't win.  They are expected to be perfect and make the right decision every time.  Thanked if everything goes right.  But if something doesn't go the way it should, then somehow they messed up and are to blamed.

[RedbirdNelly]

45 minutes ago, greyhorse said:

Do all ER doctors spend so much time outside the hospital treating patients at the scene, and then following that said patient to the ER?  Seems to happen a lot with Choi.  I get that Emily called him, but it just seems odd that he's treating so many patients outside of the hospital.  And when he puts the smoke pipe into the OD kid's trachea, he announces "I'm in!"  Force of habit, I suppose?  Who is he announcing that he is in to?

 

was thinking the same thing. I would have liked it if we'd seen the following scene to open the show instead: Sister calls Choi "come quick? friend at party has OD'd!!" Choi "Where are you?" [gets address] Ok, Emily, someone will be there quick!" [hangs up phone, dials 911 and tells them to send someone to the address]

I'm really pleased to see that the show people read these forums, read my comment a few episodes ago about how at this point I'd just prefer they change this to Dr. Charles Solves Crimes (the part of the episode where he figures out the crazy neighbor was the most interesting part of that show) and went back and refilmed the rest of the season for me. Thanks!

My desire to watch a crime busting medical drama aside (such desire only exists because of the crappy writing of this show as a medical drama), Dr. Charles going to the storage unit was too much. Seriously who wants to get arrested for trespassing or stealing? He should have pushed harder with local police.

The scene with Will telling Natalie she was right after all! and saved the child! was some of the worst acting I've seen in a really long time. It was straight from some bad training video where they have bad actors demonstrate some scenario. Maybe it's expecting too much for the actor playing Will to convincingly say those lines.

I hated also how the show just jumps from one extreme to the other with no time to develop anything. They don't have to have every storyline play out in one episode. We have Choi believing his sister, then not believing her, then because OD guy claims its his dads meds, just be convinced that's true and run off to "make things right" with Emily. Too much. He knows she's not trustworthy. Given the theft in the hospital, anyone who knows his sister would still have concerns she stole the drugs even if she didn't sell them to that one guy who OD'd. Calm down, Choi.

[GalvDuck]

1 hour ago, greyhorse said:

40 pills of Percocet is $2400?  I don't remember the exact number, but it was something like $60 a pill!!!  And what exactly is "Hospital grade Percocet"?  I don't think there's such a thing.  There's stronger doses of Percocet, but you can still get those in the pharmacy.  I think I could probably get a prescription for a whole bottle of Percocet filled at the pharmacy for my $15 co-pay.  How is one pill worth $60?!?

I think it could be due to the fact that 1) not every doctor will prescribe Percocet or other pain meds to drug-seekers and 2) not everyone has insurance to cover the cost even if they could get a prescription?  We used to get the occasion visit from a "turkey" (drug-seeker) in the ER when I worked there.  Some we knew well because they visited off and on a lot (as well as going to other hospitals) and some were new, but we recognized the behavior.  

So, to avoid being refused what they want, some will pay more for the medicine on the street, which of course, leads to theft and assaults in order to get money for those drugs.  It's a mess all around.

[Reality police]

3 hours ago, greyhorse said:

Do all ER doctors spend so much time outside the hospital treating patients at the scene, and then following that said patient to the ER?  Seems to happen a lot with Choi.  I get that Emily called him, but it just seems odd that he's treating so many patients outside of the hospital.  And when he puts the smoke pipe into the OD kid's trachea, he announces "I'm in!"  Force of habit, I suppose?  Who is he announcing that he is in to?

40 pills of Percocet is $2400?  I don't remember the exact number, but it was something like $60 a pill!!!  And what exactly is "Hospital grade Percocet"?  I don't think there's such a thing.  There's stronger doses of Percocet, but you can still get those in the pharmacy.  I think I could probably get a prescription for a whole bottle of Percocet filled at the pharmacy for my $15 co-pay.  How is one pill worth $60?!?

I feel bad for doctors.  Connor avoids the "safe" route which would be to perform a hysterectomy and therefore lose the baby.  But he tries to be heroic and tries a risky procedure, only for it to fail and then the woman and baby both die.  So now the patient's mother is understandably angry and will probably sue him, although we of course don't see that.  Natalie avoids the "safe" or standard procedure of putting the child on ECMO, and instead opts for the risky and experimental procedure of the fluid in the lungs.  She gets lucky that the kid had that condition that would have caused an allergic reaction if he was put on ECMO, and the fluid procedure works.  So she is celebrated and hugged by the child's mother.  What would have happened if the fluid procedure didn't work?  And if the kid really didn't have that condition and would have done well with the ECMO?  The mother would have had the same reaction that Connor's patient's mother had.  Doctors just can't win.  They are expected to be perfect and make the right decision every time.  Thanked if everything goes right.  But if something doesn't go the way it should, then somehow they messed up and are to blamed.

I took it as a ploy she used to get him to tell the truth about where the drugs really came from.

[helpmerhonda]

Is it bad that I kind of wanted Manning's patient to die just so she wouldn't be right? 

[Ohwell]

14 minutes ago, helpmerhonda said:

Is it bad that I kind of wanted Manning's patient to die just so she wouldn't be right? 

Naw.  I felt the same way.

[BooksRule]

Quote

Waiting times are a problem here too.  So one of the hospitals has developed a program where a triage doctor, not just nurse, goes into the waiting room and triages the patients, handling the quick cases even before they get into a room. It's cut the wait time enormously.

I just watched an old episode of 'ER' (from 2007) this morning that had a subplot about doing this.  Abby was going around in the waiting rooms treating the minor problems, and sending the more serious cases to the treatment areas.  They had been doing triage, but not actually treating anyone in the waiting area until then.  

As soon as the nurse said that they didn't have the right sized valve, I knew that the patient was toast.  Seriously, who would start a surgery without having all of the possible parts.  I also have a problem with the conjoined twin simulation.  Did they have a simulation dummy constructed just for this case?  If there is a 'standard' one that they were using, how would it be useful, since the anatomy in each case would be different?  I know that the case is important, but that seems like a huge expense for a hospital that seems to be having financial problems. I guess it all goes back to the big boost in publicity that the hospital would receive (if the case goes well, that is). 

[MakeMeLaugh]

Madison, Wisconsin, is 150 miles from downtown Chicago. Dr. Charles just impulsively left work to drive a good 2 plus hours in traffic each way to break into a storage locker. Come on, Show.

[SnarkySheep]

I'm just wondering if Will and Natalie being married and working in the same department wouldn't be a conflict of interest. Maybe this will finally be our chance to get rid of Natalie!

But probably not, if April and Noah are allowed to work together...

[GalvDuck]

1 hour ago, SnarkySheep said:

I'm just wondering if Will and Natalie being married and working in the same department wouldn't be a conflict of interest. Maybe this will finally be our chance to get rid of Natalie!

But probably not, if April and Noah are allowed to work together...

IRL, it would be more of an issue.  But even on ER, it never seemed to be a big deal.

[statsgirl]

I think their interactions with each other, with Natalie always dialing it up to 15 and Will doing everything he can to cover her ass, including treating her like she's a first year med student, is more of a problem. My parents were residents together and when they finished they had a joint practice for 30 years and it worked great for them.

On 5/10/2018 at 8:39 AM, greyhorse said:

I feel bad for doctors.  Connor avoids the "safe" route which would be to perform a hysterectomy and therefore lose the baby.  But he tries to be heroic and tries a risky procedure, only for it to fail and then the woman and baby both die.  So now the patient's mother is understandably angry and will probably sue him, although we of course don't see that. 

IIRC, the woman refused the hysterectomy because she didn't want to lose her baby.  Connor tried to find a compromise.

I understand why the mother blamed Connor for their deaths in that moment.  I think she would reconsider later, unless the show wants to play it for drama.  Her daughter did consent to the procedure even after being told the risks.

[Fostersmom]

Chicago Med must have the worst patient stats around. They seem to spend a whole 30 seconds trying to save a dying patient before they call them. 

[Guildford]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

IIRC, the woman refused the hysterectomy because she didn't want to lose her baby.  Connor tried to find a compromise.

I understand why the mother blamed Connor for their deaths in that moment.  I think she would reconsider later, unless the show wants to play it for drama.  Her daughter did consent to the procedure even after being told the risks.

They had to have her die to dial up the Drama for the finale. Now he doesn't want to operate on those twins because of this massive the crisis of confidence he's having but then somehow he will be coerced/bullied into operating, things start to go wrong, Ava will be snarky and condescending and he snaps out of his inertia just in time to do something miraculous to save both babies and after all his angst he'll skip out of OR patting himself on the back and that'll be the end of it. Crisis of confidence over...Super Rhodes saves the day. Huzzah

[cathmed]

I haven't commented on the last few episodes and as with most of these "soap-opera" type shows, it has become so hackneyed that I can hardly stand to watch it.   The banal, lackadaisical writing and uninspiring storylines--let alone these "dynamic" relationships/interaction among the staff (*sigh*)--has become tortuous to watch and makes this viewer not want to root for any of the characters.    The mindless trope, the avoidance of any real consequences to their action (except currently for Rhodes Herculean effort that failed but who I'm sure will redeem himself), the extraordinary heroic tactics of Manning and the incessant fawning of Halstead (towards Manning on anything she does) has grown tiresome.  Why have the writers made him into Manning's lackey?  

Dr. Latham, who we see too infrequently, at least tries to be fair and logical (maybe sometimes too much so) but his decision making is sound.   Ava - please, just put me out of my misery and transfer her, have her encounter a life threatening fatal illness, etc.   Her sardonic, condescending  manner is abhorrent which only makes it impossible for Rhodes and her to have any kind of relationship; just huge mistake!   Choi & April - just end it now; there's truly no chemistry or similar background or foundation of a story; let them go their own way.  Dr. Reese/Dr. Charles/Reese's father triangle - one can only guess how the writers will resolve that quandary--at least one that is plausible??   Doubtful.   Maggie and Sharon - talk about props; there has been zero character development for them.  

Thank goodness, this was the penultimate episode.   The finale is anyone's guess as to what kind of cliffhanger they'll leave us with to ponder before the new season starts.  I had such high hopes in S1 but for me, this show is just about off the rails.  I don't know what, if anything, can be done to save it from total derailment.

[Manda317]

I think I have some unpopular opinions:

I like the storyline with Reese's father. It is a little different than what you would see normally on a show, even if it is a little out there. I love the relationship between Charles and Reese though, and maybe my standards for a story are just low after the first few eps of this season.

I have grown to tolerate Ava. I think I could really like her if they keep giving her some layers. I felt for her after she made a surgical mistake. You could tell that she cares about her patients. She was great with Connor's dad too.

I love Dr. Latham and the neurologist and I think they should be featured a lot more. This show actually had some very interesting characters, but they utilize the annoying ones more. I have liked Sharon's stories this season too, and it would be nice to expand upon them. Maggie is cool when she isnt freaking out about teenage name changes. Stohl could be a candidate for more attention as well, but I don't really know a lot about him.

April and Natalie get on my nerves more often than not. They can both be really judgey. I feel like April could be fixed much easier than Natalie, but they need to change her up a bit. I sometimes like her interactions with Noah, and that is why I am hesitant to call for her removal. Natalie is a writer's pet, so it is pointless to call for her removal, but they made Will somewhat likable, so they should do the same for her. If they focus on the stronger characters, all three are expendable to me.

Choi is amazing. Sometimes I think he is harsh, but I still can't hate him. He is a good doctor and it seems like he is always willing to work through his shortcomings (dismissiveness of mental illness, judgement of his sister, lack of understanding about the relationship between April and Noah, etc.).

Connor will always be a favorite. He is the best lead of the show. I love watching him grow as a surgeon and his relationship with Latham.

Noah has made a lot of improvement during this season. He is really growing on me. He is trying to become a good doctor and be more independent. I can relate to what it is like to be used to being able to depend on others but wanting to be able to stand on your own. 

[debraran]

This show pretty must lost me. Seeing Dr Charles going through someone's storage locker, stealing keys, he looks ridiculous and it doesn't fit the part he started with. More and more the show got like a soap opera with Dr Choi (in my opinion) and Dr Charles holding up the team but they both aren't given consistent good story lines.  ER was written better but both are on for an hour and Chicago Med could use the time better and have less dramatic acting from Natalie and April. It's over the top. Dr Latham is interesting but again, not given very much to do. A shame, but if they can write mediocre and still have a fan base they will. ER was on a long time before it started to get scripts that weren't always as good but CM is new. I never watched Chicago Police but Fire seemed written pretty well, the few I saw. 

Maybe it will get better, but there's always ER on Hulu, only on season 10. ; )

Edited May 15, 2018 by debraran

[statsgirl]

On 5/12/2018 at 12:48 AM, Guildford said:

They had to have her die to dial up the Drama for the finale. Now he doesn't want to operate on those twins because of this massive the crisis of confidence he's having but then somehow he will be coerced/bullied into operating, things start to go wrong, Ava will be snarky and condescending and he snaps out of his inertia just in time to do something miraculous to save both babies and after all his angst he'll skip out of OR patting himself on the back and that'll be the end of it. Crisis of confidence over...Super Rhodes saves the day. Huzzah

Are you that good?  Or is this show that bad?

[Guildford]

12 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Are you that good?  Or is this show that bad?

He he...I'd like to think a little from column A & a little from column B, but sadly it's probably most from column B....that storyline was like a flashing neon sign.

[Lukeysboat]

I am way past the initial run of this show but just caught this on streaming and had to roll my eyes when Reese’s dad said Madison was too claustrophobic. In what sense? UW is a very big school. 
 

I know, I know … the least of the issues with this show!