S03.E16: Of Two Minds

[MarkHB]

Quote

Supergirl and Imra have different ideas on how to stop the third Worldkiller, Pestilence. However, when both Alex and Winn are seriously injured by Pestilence, Supergirl and Imra team up to stop the destruction.

[Lady Calypso]

I thought this episode was just ok. Some good moments here and there, but I'll admit to be a bit underwhelmed by the Worldkillers finally coming together and the revelation that Sam is Reign to Supergirl and the others. 

I can't really blame Imra for wanting to kill Pestilence. She is a danger to society and despite her feelings also being personal, her goal is also to change the horrible future, and I'd say that would be morally good. Kara can get over the top with not killing (not as much as Barry Allen, but only because she usually succeeds in alternate methods). And I'm glad that Imra still went through with it, even though it didn't work. I would have been annoyed if Imra sacrificed her own beliefs just for Kara's. 

So, now Mon-El is all about morality. Mmmhmm, sure. They can cut that crap all because they're setting up him to get back together with Kara. Though, I think part of his reason is also because he's in a fight with her and Brainy. 

Speaking of Brainy, it was great to see Jesse Rath without the makeup and stuff on him. I bet he appreciated not having to sit in the chair for too long, and especially not in the makeup for more than one scene. 

Another episode with a little more Winn, even if he's getting hurt....again. I liked his near death revelation scene. But man, do I miss him and Kara having these talks. James is literally only good to be props to other characters. I felt bad that Kara and J'onn were really there for Alex, grabbing her hand and everything, but Winn gets people kind of crowded around him and then one scene with James. Anyway, that's just a minor subjective nitpick as a Winn fan. 

As for Pestilence/Grace, she was ok, but not really that menacing...like, at all. Maybe it was the actress for me.

As for the Sam/Lena/Reign stuff, once again, I find it very weak because of Lena's insistence that this must be kept a secret, even if it was exposed by the end of the episode. I did like the solo Sam vs Reign scenes. I thought they worked fairly well. 

[UNOSEZ]

Good Lord... Everyone was extra self-righteous this episode... And in supreme ego-stroking Kara... I didn't want Imra to apologize but it is Kara's show so it wasn't too surprising...  Also show... Are y'all for real... James and Kara don't speak to each other again??..  Does her boyfriend have an issue with them speaking.. Does she have an issue.. Did something happen??..  I've already figured out I'm probably never gonna get to see them really interact or have meaningful discussions unless I watch reruns of season 1.. And since they've been back at least they are on the screen on the same time.. But its actually a joke in my house to see how the show manages to not have them speak.   Smh

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, next time you FaceTime Barry, you should ask him how that whole "dont kill the bad guy" thing is going for him, Kara. I mean, Kara usually has a better success rate, but its hard to blame Imra for wanting to take Pestilence out. Also, did Kara mean that she doesn't kill innocent people, or that she doesn't kill ever? Because, we`ve totally seen Kara kill people. In defense of others, but still. I can see her not wanting to kill the world killers, but its not like she`s never killed anyone ever. 

Digging Braineys new look, and I like his scenes with Winn a lot. He said Winn is smarter than the average human! Thats a pretty high compliment from him! Mon-El is really laying on the "we built our Legion on Supergirl" stuff. I think he feels a mite bit guilty about his obvious feelings for Kara. 

Its almost like the writers just realized "Oh wait, Jeremy Jackson is a really good actor! Lets let him do stuff!" which is partially great, because I love that he is getting more meaty stuff to work with, but it sucks, because Winn is just having a hell of a crappy time lately. First all the parent drama, and then he almost dies because of an alien plague. I did really like the scene with him and James, both actors really sold the hell out of it. Especially when he is done talking about all the things he feels like he can do that that he has started dealing with his baggage, and he just got this truly horrified look on his face, before he smiled at James. 

I just wish they could give James some decent plots now. He at least got a good scene this week, and a reminder that he actually runs a media empire from time to time. 

Well finally we get the reveal about Sam! I do feel bad for her and hope she can be saved, but the world killers coming together wasn't quite that super epic. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by tennisgurl

[UNOSEZ]

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Mon-El is really laying on the "we built our Legion on Supergirl" stuff. I think he feels a mite bit guilty about his obvious feelings for Kara. 

Yeah towards the end when they were all by Winn  he was just all over her with his eyes and Imra was staring right at him... 

Edited May 1, 2018 by UNOSEZ
Spelling

[Primal Slayer]

How is it that Reign is the main World Killer but she has the worst costume out of the trio? The two probably have some of my favorite costumes in the Arrow-verse. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Primal Slayer

[Lady Calypso]

Jeremy Jordan is certainly a treasure with his fantastic acting. He made me laugh and almost cry in this one episode. I laughed at drugged up Winn, when he was describing Freddy Krueger to an oblivious Brainy.

36 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I just wish they could give James some decent plots now. He at least got a good scene this week, and a reminder that he actually runs a media empire from time to time. 

I really don't think they'll ever give James a good plot, which is a shame because Mehcad Brooks deserves better. I think it'll be a better service to the actor if they let James go to Metropolis with Superman, in all honesty. James simply doesn't fit on this show anymore, not since early season 2, when Mon-El showed up. 

39 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Well finally we get the reveal about Sam! I do feel bad for her and hope she can be saved, but the world killers coming together wasn't quite that super epic. 

Yeah, I think I was expecting some sort of CGI effect when they all joined together or....or something to indicate that this was a powerful moment.

[UNOSEZ]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really don't think they'll ever give James a good plot, which is a shame because Mehcad Brooks deserves better. I think it'll be a better service to the actor if they let James go to Metropolis with Superman, in all honesty. James simply doesn't fit on this show anymore, not since early season 2, when Mon-El showed up. 

In my head and heart I know this needs to happen.. He's so woefully used its sad and kinda disrespectful to the character and the actor... But the stubborn brotha in me wants him to stick around and find a way to get back into this show the way he should be... Damn it writers you got a solid actor with a character that has stuff you can mine a story out of.. And a good bit of  unresolved/ unanswered stuff from season one... Get it together.   

 

But more than likely they'll kill him off and bring in some new black guy and start over... Smh

[immortalfrieza]

I'm glad that we finally got a completely unrepentant World Killer with who both sides of her personality are total psychopaths, rather than the other 2 who happen to be just brainwashed puppets. Then, Kara is still "we shouldn't kill, for any reason EVER! EVER! EVER!" like a child. I've always hated this "Thou Shalt Not Kill" stance that so many superheroes have because it's never made sense and has only existed for the sole reason of keeping the villain around. Now we've got a villain who is not only completely evil but will definitely kill millions if she's not stopped yet the show is going out of their way to reinforce Kara's position to the point of having Irma back her at the end of it instead of calling her out for being the naive idiot that she is.

Welp, we all knew where the "Lena looks for a cure for Sam" story was going, it did take longer than I thought for her to get out and wreak havoc. Lena apparently doesn't know Supergirl or the DEO at all if she honestly believed they would do any more than what she was doing anyway. 

Ladies and Gentlemen, returning for the 20 millionth time, a plot where a character fails to tell other characters things they really should know for no good reason because the plot wouldn't work otherwise. Lena should have told Supergirl and everybody else what was up with Sam the minute she realized it, but then Reign probably wouldn't have been able to join up with the other World Killers and thus the plot of the rest of the season wouldn't have worked.

[JamieLynn832002]

I actually kind of hated Kara in this episode. She was just so self-righteous. If you have someone telling you for 100% certain that your normal methods don't work in this situation and millions will die as a result, maybe get off your high horse and listen. 

[tennisgurl]

37 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

Then, Kara is still "we shouldn't kill, for any reason EVER! EVER! EVER!"

It doesn't even make sense, because Kara has totally killed people before! It was in battle or in self defense, but I dont remember her angsting a bunch when she was fighting and killing all those evil White Martians not so long ago to save J'onns dad. Do they not count now? Yeah killing, especially here, if Pestilences human form really was innocent, would be tough, and would hopefully not be the first option, they should still consider it! At least have it as an option. I dont think heroes should be quick to kill (unless they're a very dark anti hero) and should try to bring bad guys in alive whenever possible, but, in cases where killing a person will save millions of people, its hard to justify not taking them out of the equation. The needs of the many, and all that. At that point, it becomes more about the hero not being able to live with themselves killing people (again) or wanting to hold that sweet moral high ground, and not about justice or saving lives. And thats not very heroic. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Lantern7]

Thinking about the CW and Arrowverse . . . I figured that if Supergirl had to be boiled down to one word, it would be "empowerment." Lately, maybe it should be "family," which I usually attribute to The Flash. Seriously, where these are not the merry misfits of the Waverider, they do manage to really care for each other. Watching J'onn and James break down over -- respectively -- Alex and Winn, I thought, "Man, it's a shame that they don't love each other when people aren't almost dying." Then I remembered the last two episodes kicked off with karaoke and charades. Many last names, one happy family.

This week? Meh. I get Imra, but she's was a bit much. Sam is still sad . . . sucks when you slowly realize that you're basically a cover story for a marauding alien. Looks like the makeup department ran out of stuff to slap onto Brainiac 5. I'm also okay with Mon for the most part.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Mon-El is really laying on the "we built our Legion on Supergirl" stuff. I think he feels a mite bit guilty about his obvious feelings for Kara.

 

Now I want Mon to say that line in the open, and Winn to quip, "Wait, I thought you built the Legion on rock and roll." Minimum, J'onn would snort. Hey, beats inadvertently interrupting a DEO meeting while playing "Back in Black."

ETA: Lena is still great. I'm thinking she could be like Lex in Smallville, with the flexible morals and everybody writing fanfic about her and the lead character. Big difference is that we know Lex has to be a villain. Lena is more or less new, so the writers can hold off on making her evil and/or shaving her head.

ETA2: From AVClub's review, at the very end: "I love that the Worldkillers’ powers include manifesting goth leather costumes out of thin air."

Edited May 1, 2018 by Lantern7

[ottoDbusdriver]

Considering that there are not one, not two, but three Worldkillers on Earth they really haven't lived up to their names yet -- zero worlds killed.

Having said that, Pestilence was pretty hot in her Worldkiller outfit.

Purity's Canary-like scream continues to come across as just lazy by the writers -- they need to come up with a different power for these villains.
Something along the lines of dogs with bees in their mouths.  </Simpsons>

In the future millions are killed, billions are starving, but oh no I can't kill one really evil person because MAYBE I can save her.  FFS !
She needs to tap out and get Arrow over to Earth 38, problem will be solved in minutes.

[Cthulhudrew]

The whole "parallel dimensions" thing with Sam and Reign made no sense to me. Reign was the entity/creation/whatever sent to Earth originally, right, and Sam was just the identity that developed (or was embedded in?) her when she turned mortal- presumably to hide her from those who might otherwise detect her? So what are they trying to say with this parallel dimension stuff? That they are actually two separate beings? It feels like something the writers just made up suddenly in order to be able to resolve keeping a human Sam and still being able to eliminate Reign at the end of the season.

28 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Having said that, Pestilence was pretty hot in her Worldkiller outfit.

Purity's Canary-like scream continues to come across as just lazy by the writers -- they need to come up with a different power for these villains.

Agreed about Purity. Her name really doesn't fit her powerset in any way I can see. Meanwhile Pestilence is just too spot on. Couldn't they have come up with a different name for her? 

(And how did all her victims somehow not notice the big open wound on their hands until the appropriately dramatic moment?)

[immortalfrieza]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

It doesn't even make sense, because Kara has totally killed people before! It was in battle or in self defense, but I dont remember her angsting a bunch when she was fighting and killing all those evil White Martians not so long ago to save J'onns dad. Do they not count now? Yeah killing, especially here, if Pestilences human form really was innocent, would be tough, and would hopefully not be the first option, they should still consider it! At least have it as an option. I dont think heroes should be quick to kill (unless they're a very dark anti hero) and should try to bring bad guys in alive whenever possible, but, in cases where killing a person will save millions of people, its hard to justify not taking them out of the equation. The needs of the many, and all that. At that point, it becomes more about the hero not being able to live with themselves killing people (again) or wanting to hold that sweet moral high ground, and not about justice or saving lives. And thats not very heroic. 

Of course it's not heroic, the "No Killing Rule" itself has never been about being heroic, it's about making sure that the villains don't die until the writers want them to despite plenty of opportunity. Killing has always been treated in fiction particularly comic books in one of two ways, either the hero will not kill under any circumstances no matter how obvious it is that it's perfectly warranted, or the "hero" is just a psychopath who kills left and right with little to no justification anybody who does anything bad no matter how minuscule, particularly if they were once a hero who did prescribe to the "No Kill Rule" and killed for well justified reasons, it's also some alternate universe or bad future or something. The second type is usually brought up when they're trying to justify the very existence of the "No Kill Rule", but all it really ever does is highlight the absurdity of the rule and show how insane the hero actually is that they would devolve to killing anybody that offends them on a whim if they didn't have that rule. The idea that heroes could simply kill when it's necessary and no further is rarely if ever even considered, and heroes that adhere to it will preach it even though every single hero has killed at one point or another. Kara is no exception and her hypocrisy really showed in this episode. Killing shouldn't be treated as the first, second, or even third resort, but it should always be on the table.

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Considering that there are not one, not two, but three Worldkillers on Earth they really haven't lived up to their names yet -- zero worlds killed.

And if the future the Legion comes from is any indication they never really will. Even Pestilence will end up killing millions of people instead of the billions on Earth after about a thousand years.

[AnimeMania]

I don't see what the big deal is, if they have an antidote to Blight and an antidote to Pestilence, why are the people from the future so scared. Just mass produce the antidote and the deaths will be kept to a minimum. You should be trying to figure out how Blight/Pestilence can live so long.

[cambridgeguy]

Let's see, all 3 Worldkillers are awake and just one of them was able to beat Supergirl into a bloody pulp. The Legion is nowhere close to Kara's power level so they'd be wiped out in a fight.  Here's a thought - call in Superman to help with the threat.  It's her show so Kara should be the one who takes the lead but it's insane that Superman, the world's greatest (or second greatest, if you prefer Kara) hero is totally ignored when dealing with Kryptonian baddies.

[immortalfrieza]

30 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Let's see, all 3 Worldkillers are awake and just one of them was able to beat Supergirl into a bloody pulp. The Legion is nowhere close to Kara's power level so they'd be wiped out in a fight.  Here's a thought - call in Superman to help with the threat.  It's her show so Kara should be the one who takes the lead but it's insane that Superman, the world's greatest (or second greatest, if you prefer Kara) hero is totally ignored when dealing with Kryptonian baddies.

It's another thing that would kill the plot if they were to actually do. Like how J'onn only goes Green Martian (if they were worried about the expense of the effects having him fight as he normally is 9 times out of 10 would be fine) and actually does anything like one or two times a season. If Superman and J'onn were to show up when it makes sense for them (among others) to do so they'd probably be able to kick the asses of the villains pretty easily in most episodes and Supergirl herself would become pretty irrelevant. I've noticed that J'onn also seems to get backhanded into unconsciousness near instantly whenever he does do something, despite being powerful enough to easily defeat Supergirl. As well, every villain on the planet now either is immune to his psychic powers or he just doesn't use them.

Everybody except Supergirl at the DEO is also completely useless at facing any threat whatsoever, despite the agency itself existing entirely to protect the Earth against alien threats. I wonder what happened to that so called Strike Team that they were supposed to bring in once they actually located Pestilence? Not that everybody wouldn't have gotten defeated effortlessly if they were actually there anyway, but writers, the effort helps.

[JapMo]

10 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

She needs to tap out and get Arrow over to Earth 38, problem will be solved in minutes.

THIS!!!  No BS with Oliver.  You're a bad guy your dead...no talking, no rationalizing, no preaching....buh bye.

[Quark]

I feel like the break since January has done wonders for Supergirl. It's been great since it returned.

[JapMo]

I'm disappointed because I kind of gave up on Supergirl for a bit this season because they were inserting so much politics in their shows, but it appeared they listened to their audience and were, if not eliminating it, at least toning it down.  But this No Kill b.s. is the same exact thing they did on The Flash just a few episodes ago.  Why?  There's a lot of violence on Arrow and Black Lightening and I don't see them getting on their soapbox and pontificating.  I can only think the CW sees Supergirl as a women's show and The Flash as more of a comedy, and they want to keep them light and unoffensive to anybody.  How lame.  I can think of at least 2 occasions where Kara killed the bad guy.  Nothing was said.  These are comic book characters, CW.  It's escapism.  The audience just wants to be entertained. 

IMO when the CW started trying to focus so much on this being a women's show about a female superhero, that's when the show really started to decline.  And I'm a woman, so it's not that.  James and Winn and Mon-El are intelligent, strong guys yet the show is determined that they must be a bunch of pussies.  Winn can't get a girl, James runs a huge conglomerate yet puts his balls in his sometimes girlfriend's purse, and Mon-El has to be the resident jerk....they can't cut the guy any slack.  He's either constantly apologizing or constantly singing Kara's praises ad nauseum.  Now I know some of you might say that's how women were treated on shows and in comics in the past, but that doesn't make it right.  These guys are important to the show.  I mean, I don't know if anyone else agrees, but IMO Kara is the dumbest one on the show.  She's a naive Pollyanna that probably still falls for "Hey, what's that behind you?" while the bad guys get away.  CW needs to stop typecasting this show.     

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

It's another thing that would kill the plot if they were to actually do. Like how J'onn only goes Green Martian (if they were worried about the expense of the effects having him fight as he normally is 9 times out of 10 would be fine) and actually does anything like one or two times a season. If Superman and J'onn were to show up when it makes sense for them (among others) to do so they'd probably be able to kick the asses of the villains pretty easily in most episodes and Supergirl herself would become pretty irrelevant. I've noticed that J'onn also seems to get backhanded into unconsciousness near instantly whenever he does do something, despite being powerful enough to easily defeat Supergirl. As well, every villain on the planet now either is immune to his psychic powers or he just doesn't use them.

Superman doesn't have to show up if the actor is busy but they at least need to hand wave away his absence.  In season 1 it was initially because Kara wanted to work without a security blanket, then he was disabled at the end of the season.  In season 2 he was brainwashed.  It's very easy to say he's off world, or he can head in off-screen, get his ass kicked, and show up as a pair of red boots in the infirmary again. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, JapMo said:

But this No Kill b.s. is the same exact thing they did on The Flash just a few episodes ago.  Why?  There's a lot of violence on Arrow and Black Lightening and I don't see them getting on their soapbox and pontificating.  I can only think the CW sees Supergirl as a women's show and The Flash as more of a comedy, and they want to keep them light and unoffensive to anybody.  How lame.  I can think of at least 2 occasions where Kara killed the bad guy.  Nothing was said.  These are comic book characters, CW.  It's escapism.  The audience just wants to be entertained. 

At least, with Supergirl, this No Kill mantra is a rarity that they focus on. The Flash uses it practically as Barry's core, but Kara's always been more flexible and has found other ways, but also realizes that sometimes, killing is necessary. It's just odd that they decided to focus on her insistence that no Worldkiller could be killed in this episode, but at least they attempted to explain it with the whole "they still have a human literally inside them" argument. Barry won't kill anyone, no matter how evil they are. Perhaps Kara will come to the conclusion at the end of the season that they may have to kill the Worldkillers. At least, that's the hope. And hopefully, they don't continue making Kara say stuff like "I don't kill. Don't kill the bad guy no matter what", as it hasn't worked out for Barry, so it won't work out here. 

6 minutes ago, JapMo said:

IMO when the CW started trying to focus so much on this being a women's show about a female superhero, that's when the show really started to decline.  And I'm a woman, so it's not that.

I'd actually say, for me, the decline happened when they decided to focus more on Kara's love life with Mon-El, instead of Kara and Mon-El as individual characters (also the argument that Alex/Maggie were too involved in their own world last season), Mon-El was written....not great last season. He was a coward who did nothing but act like an ass and kept secrets while not really attempting to learn how to be a hero. He didn't have any good fight scenes like he did this season and although he was funnier last season, he didn't really progress as a character besides being Kara's boyfriend.

 This season, at least he's starting to show off his strengths. The last three episodes have done wonders to his character for me. This episode alone, he got a pretty good fight sequence, even if the cape stuff still looks a bit silly for me. He got to have a one-on-one with Imra this episode as well. James, last season, didn't really have much to do (his Guardian arc was actually more about Winn than James himself, and Mehcad missed several episodes and was only in one scene for others), and I guess he still doesn't, but at least his screen-time has improved a tiny bit (despite me not liking him with Lena at all and would rather see him working at Catco).  Winn is the only male character who actually got decent character development last season, as J'onn didn't really have a plot besides one episode last season. They're doing a better job at balancing it out this time around. It's why this season has gotten so much better for me than last season. Last season was them coming out of CBS and moving into The CW, where both networks have different expectations and "outlines", so to speak, for their shows. 

I like that the show is focusing on the women, since Arrow and The Flash can't seem to be bothered with their female characters. I don't disagree that it would be nice to see more of the guys (I'm still annoyed that Kara has replaced Winn as her best friend with Sam and Lena, for example) but I find that this season has really gone up from last season. That being said, now that they've had Mon-El officially acknowledge and apologize for the mess of his character that was last season, maybe they can just move on and allow him to be his own character. I'd very much rather put season 2 Mon-El (at least parts of him) out of my mind. 

12 minutes ago, JapMo said:

I mean, I don't know if anyone else agrees, but IMO Kara is the dumbest one on the show.  She's a naive Pollyanna that probably still falls for "Hey, what's that behind you?" while the bad guys get away.  CW needs to stop typecasting this show.     

I mean, to be fair, that's pretty much every single hero in the Arrowverse. They gotta be dumb for plot reasons. Barry does it constantly, Oliver Queen is being regressed on Arrow already, and I think Legends is the only show that doesn't have that (I put Black Lightning in a separate category since it's a new show). 

[JapMo]

23 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I like that the show is focusing on the women, since Arrow and The Flash can't seem to be bothered with their female characters.

They are doing a very nice job with Iris over on The Flash this year.  It's taken a long time, but she's finally got an important role with the group, and without having any special powers.

[iMonrey]

Is anyone else totally Team Worldkiller at this point? I mean, if the combined efforts of Supergirl, J'onn, Mon El, Imra and Lena can't take these bozos on with the full power of the DEO behind them, why go on? Especially when you stop to consider how lame Pestilence and Purity actually are; the former can't even hurt you unless she's close enough to scratch you, presumably, and the latter just screams at you real loud. Haven't they heard of ear plugs? Criminy. 

And am I to assume the World Killers just have magic costumes they can conjure at will? Because Sam wasn't wearing anything but a hospital gown, then suddenly she was up in the air wearing full Reign regalia. WTF? It's not like she had it hidden underneath her hospital gown.

Quote

He said Winn is smarter than the average human!

Slightly smarter. Heh.

[Lady Calypso]

20 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Is anyone else totally Team Worldkiller at this point? I mean, if the combined efforts of Supergirl, J'onn, Mon El, Imra and Lena can't take these bozos on with the full power of the DEO behind them, why go on? Especially when you stop to consider how lame Pestilence and Purity actually are; the former can't even hurt you unless she's close enough to scratch you, presumably, and the latter just screams at you real loud. Haven't they heard of ear plugs? Criminy. 

Even Imra and Mon-El said that Reign just left in their timeline, not that they ever defeated her. Now that we also know that Pestilence lives to become Blight and who knows what happens to Purity (I forget if they ever told us her future), and it seems like defeating them isn't technically in the cards right now, unless they change that. 

1 hour ago, JapMo said:

They are doing a very nice job with Iris over on The Flash this year.  It's taken a long time, but she's finally got an important role with the group, and without having any special powers.

They've handled Iris better. It doesn't mean they've handled her great. They still seem to be struggling with what role they want Iris to have, which shouldn't be an issue four seasons in (and I say this as an Iris fan who has always wanted more). Which is why I don't want it happening to characters on this show. They already are struggling with James, and they're finally getting a better handle on Mon-El. This show has done its course correcting when necessary (which is more than I can say for Arrow and The Flash, which seems to take them a long ass time to change their ways). This episode is still miles better than a lot of episodes last season. They're giving their male characters more to do, James aside, but that's because they really don't seem to want to give him a storyline. They're throwing him with Lena because I think they feel it'll stick, but they don't seem to make him a priority to write for. This episode had him listen to Winn's death monologue and cry (and Mehcad did a good job with that scene) and then he made a phone call to Lena, but that was more to foreshadow her secret about keeping Sam/Reign, which got out by the end of the episode. 

As someone who has had to sit through a lot of male-centric shows, it's not that I want them to go the same direction, just gender-flipped, but it's simply a nice change to have more females at the center of these episodes. This episode had a lot of females interacting, but the males also got involved. J'onn got to use his powers, Winn got his screen time, and Mon-El got to do some fighting as well as hash things out with Imra. The episodes since the hiatus have really been on the ball for me. 

On another note, yeah, how is it that the Worldkillers apparently can transform into their costumes within seconds? It's impressive, but head scratching. 

I will say that I'm also glad that my prediction about a three act story for Sam and Reign was correct. The first seven/eight episodes had been getting to know Sam and her origin story with the conclusion being about Reign introducing herself to National City, the next six episodes have been about Reign's chaos and proving how powerful she is, and these final eight or nine episodes are about people finding out about Reign/Sam and how to defeat the Worldkillers for good (there are missing episodes in between that didn't have Reign or Sam stuff, so I'm only accounting for the episodes where she did really make an appearance). It's actually been an impressive story arc and I think they've done a good job with pacing it out. The debate, of course, is more about how well they've told the story. 

[twoods]

The Winn-James scene was wonderful. I miss their Guardian scenes. Seeing how effortless Mehcad cries, I hate how underutilized he is on this show. 

Kara was annoying this episode. Whine whine no one can die, but the Worldkillers keep killing so that’s okay.

The Reign stuff was super boring. If the team was involved it would be more interesting, and I didn’t  like how isolated Sam and Lena were. I guess it’s too late now.

Edited May 1, 2018 by twoods

[immortalfrieza]

I think the issue with James is that he's pretty superfluous, particularly since Catco has faded into the background so much it barely exists at all anymore. They went a step in the right direction last season by making him Guardian, but they failed to make him anywhere near powerful enough to contribute to any threat that would actually give Supergirl trouble, and unlike Winn Superhacker Extraordinaire or Lena Omnidisciplinary Scientist James doesn't have any abilities that could actually contribute outside of combat. The show just has more characters than the writers can support so James gets left out, it doesn't help that the actor hasn't really committed to the show so keeping James out of focus allows them to write him out easily. Having a brief scene like with Winn this episode is all James does anymore if he shows up at all.

Edited May 1, 2018 by immortalfrieza

[VCRTracking]

I do love watching some of the reactions on YouTube to the part where Lena touches foreheads with Sam. It really did like they were going to kiss! As it was that was a great moment for the ReignCorpers out there.

[thuganomics85]

Aww, Barry has a soulmate with the whole "We can't kill anyone!  Even if they are the worst of the worst!" department in Kara!  I'm not saying you should murder every petty criminal in the city, but when you've got someone who is literally called a Worldkiller, at least talk about the option.

Anyway, this episode was basically the "Hey, lets take down Irma a few pegs in order for it to be cool when Mon-El finally dumps her ass for his beloved Kara" episode.  Consistent reminders of how she lied to him about the mission.  Having her confront and argue with Kara numerous times, while being framed as being in the wrong.  And then ending with her apologizing and even giving Kara a nice pep-talk.  Also shoot daggers over Mon-El blatantly mooning over Kara still.  Yay!  Irma is totally on the list of people who I want them to escape their current show, and maybe chill with the Legends who are way cooler.

Totally knew that the doctor was Pestilence, since I recognized the actress from the last season of Hell on Wheels.  I do like that she isn't another "being controlled" Worldkiller, but actually enjoys her evil powers and the damage she causes.

Yay, Brainy!  And he's decided to just put on a hologram that makes him human, because either the show doesn't want to waste their budget on more make-up or Jesse Rath has finally had enough of the make-up chair between this and Defiance.

Jeremy Jordan was MVP from an acting standpoint.

I love Katie McGrath, but at this point, I think she is clearly losing the battle against her American accent.  Just hit Lena on the head or something, and have her start talking in her normal voice (or British like she did in Merlin.)

At least the cat is out of the bag, and everyone knows Sam is Reign.  I hope they come up with a game plan soon, because they're already getting their asses handed to them, and the Worldkillers don't even seem to be trying.

[BooBear]

10 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

I think the issue with James is that he's pretty superfluous, particularly since Catco has faded into the background so much it barely exists at all anymore. 

It seems like the writers have a problem with doing this to a lot of characters. Wynn and Brainy are coming to mind. The show brings these great actors / characters on and then has no real plan for them. I think that is why the audience is getting annoyed.  Agreed they have to mention why Superman isn't involved. I am just going to hand waive that the world killers seem unstoppable and that the writers are stalling for the final episode. But we all know how this is going to go down... Kara will use her magic adorkable self to bring out the "female power" In the women who are trapped in the bodies of the world killers. They have made it clear Kara is no match for even one. 

[UNOSEZ]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Irma is totally on the list of people who I want them to escape their current show, and maybe chill with the Legends who are way cooler

Omg... I hadn't even thought if that as a possibility.. But if Amy Jackson decides to stick around she would be perfect on Legends... Her character has the serious gravitas that the team lost with amaya.. But with the legends could also let her hair down a bit.. She's smart and her powers could come in handy.. Plus it gets her away from the obvious breakup she's gonna be dealing with by the end of this season

[Dobian]

On 4/30/2018 at 10:02 PM, immortalfrieza said:

Of course it's not heroic, the "No Killing Rule" itself has never been about being heroic, it's about making sure that the villains don't die until the writers want them to despite plenty of opportunity. Killing has always been treated in fiction particularly comic books in one of two ways, either the hero will not kill under any circumstances no matter how obvious it is that it's perfectly warranted, or the "hero" is just a psychopath who kills left and right with little to no justification anybody who does anything bad no matter how minuscule, particularly if they were once a hero who did prescribe to the "No Kill Rule" and killed for well justified reasons, it's also some alternate universe or bad future or something. The second type is usually brought up when they're trying to justify the very existence of the "No Kill Rule", but all it really ever does is highlight the absurdity of the rule and show how insane the hero actually is that they would devolve to killing anybody that offends them on a whim if they didn't have that rule. The idea that heroes could simply kill when it's necessary and no further is rarely if ever even considered, and heroes that adhere to it will preach it even though every single hero has killed at one point or another. Kara is no exception and her hypocrisy really showed in this episode. Killing shouldn't be treated as the first, second, or even third resort, but it should always be on the table.

The No Kill rule has successfully kept Batman's villains alive for decades.

So how come Supergirl and her gang don't always wear their hearing aids, especially when hunting the Worldkillers?  Purity messed them up twice in this episode.  Another example of dumb writing, they can easily nullify her one super power but don't bother to.

At least everyone finally knows who Reign is, that story was getting old.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Dobian

[FortKnox]

Question when is the last time we've seen Kara or James doing any work at KatCo? Or the inside of KatCo? Sometime before the break?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

When Lena promised Sam that she wouldn't let Reign hurt Ruby, I took it as foreshadowing a scene where Lena actually kills Sam, at her request, during a brief period when Reign reverts to Sam.

[Trini]

On 5/1/2018 at 7:30 PM, immortalfrieza said:

I think the issue with James is that he's pretty superfluous, particularly since Catco has faded into the background so much it barely exists at all anymore. They went a step in the right direction last season by making him Guardian, but they failed to make him anywhere near powerful enough to contribute to any threat that would actually give Supergirl trouble, and unlike Winn Superhacker Extraordinaire or Lena Omnidisciplinary Scientist James doesn't have any abilities that could actually contribute outside of combat. The show just has more characters than the writers can support so James gets left out, it doesn't help that the actor hasn't really committed to the show so keeping James out of focus allows them to write him out easily. Having a brief scene like with Winn this episode is all James does anymore if he shows up at all.

 

I think James can have a role as Kara's connection to civilian life, and to National city citizens in general; and of course, as a friend. But the show isn't interested in her non-superhero life much anymore. CatCo is a big media company, they should be ale to make it relevant to the plots on the show, but the writers/etc. aren't interested.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Trini

[MarkHB]

On 5/2/2018 at 2:58 PM, FortKnox said:

Question when is the last time we've seen Kara or James doing any work at KatCo? Or the inside of KatCo? Sometime before the break?

This week, we didn't see civilian Kara once. She spent the entire episode as Supergirl.

[Rushmoras]

On Wednesday, May 02, 2018 at 9:58 PM, FortKnox said:

Question when is the last time we've seen Kara or James doing any work at KatCo? Or the inside of KatCo? Sometime before the break?

Hmm.. come to think of it, I think that the last time that Kara spent her time as a reporter was just prior of finding Mon-El in the spaceship underwater. So yeah, wwy before the break.

[UNOSEZ]

My problem with the character was what his introduction and implementation did to James and a lesser extent Winn...  From the jump ppl didn't like James for all sorts of "reasons" that never seemed to have anything to do with how the character acted on screen... But he was there an adult and partner to Kara who had his own things going but was there when she needed it.. There was immediate attraction and a slow burn lead up to something more... Then the season ended and as soon as season 2 starts she just wants to be friends with almost no explanation (which is kinda hard to do when both parties are that drawn to each other)  and wants to find herself in being a reporter and Supergirl... And then is immediately sucked into the vortex of a smarmy lazy dude -bro who makes the same mistakes over and over and she keeps fixing and fixing and pushing her agenda on the guy ( to Mon-El'd credit he starts to get it) and he becomes a better guy and in this season he's even better.. But Kara doesn't find herself.. She starts and quits and starts again at her reporter job.. She spends the Majority if season 2 attached to Mon-El'd... And James doesn't get an explanation or a chance to be angry or confused or hurt.. He just.. ( I dunno what) exists... So Mon-el in a vacuum isn't so bad.. The actor was convincing as a new earthling learning on the fly.. But what he did to the show.. ( and especially the dynamics of  James&Kara)  turned me away from the character..  The inevitability of the handsome charming white guy swooping in to sideline the black guy did him no favors. At least with me... 

Doesn't mean I want him gone.. If he can be on the show and not swoon over  Kara.. If he can actually disagree with her from time to time ( like James in the guardian episode)  I'd like him around... He's great with Winn. 

[UNOSEZ]

While I agree that Kara and Mon el also had sparks.. I felt that it ( of the two relationships) felt forced I mean the minute he was introduced you knew the show was putting them together… But based on what Kara had shown up to that point and everything he showed especially early on… What exactly did she see there.. Other than a tired and trite “opposites attract/ good girl saves or fixes bad boy” storyline.. It made no real sense… Add that to them just dropping what was building with James.. Which I can’t call just friends.. Because she was Just friends with Winn.. And she and James had a much different dynamic than her and Winn.. So his love story gets dropped with the thinnest of explanations and even that explanation gets rebutted because the powers that be started the non stop Mon-el and Kara show almost immediately after…

And while maybe you personally don’t feel that race was an issue ( and I wish upon a star that you were right) I heard the same old “no chemistry / just friends ” stuff after the First episode… And complaints about him before the show started and those complaints have been attached to all manner of minority actors/actresses when put in prominent positions ( say main love interest)