S04.E20: Therefore She Is

[Trini]

Quote

Barry and Team Flash team up with Gypsy (guest star Jessica Camacho) to try to thwart Thinker's plan. Meanwhile, Cisco and Gypsy have a heart to heart talk about their relationship.

Rob J. Greenlea directed the episode written by Sterling Gates & Thomas Pound

 

[Trini]

Previews:

 

[mtlchick]

Marlize, you were always too good for that bastard.  Dump him AND the gel that you put in your hair! 

[cambridgeguy]

If traveling between Earths is as easy as snapping your fingers then why are Cisco and Gypsy acting like it's equivalent to a normal couple living on opposite sides of the country?  Their commute to see each other is faster than 99% of couples who aren't living together.

Team Flash fails yet again.  Watching Our Heroes fail can be entertaining when done correctly but this is getting pointless.  OF COURSE they get their hopes up only for Devoe to beat them.

[bettername2come]

Oh, that exit from Marlize was awesome. She stole the chair! Sweet! I don't even care if she joins Team Flash or just becomes a less crazy villain in her own right that was awesome! And she looks so much better in the black outfit compared to the white. But nice to see Devoe's always been crazy. And get some info on his actual plan.

Aw,

Spoiler

Dawn Allen didn't want to see her mom.

That's somehow cute and heartbreaking.

I'm gonna miss Cisco and Gypsy. They were a cute couple. They matched and she made him look tall, dammit! But given how little screen time she's gotten, I'm not surprised it went this way. I loved Iris calling Cisco family. Mixed feelings about Caitlin wanting Killer Frost back. On the one hand, I think DP is playing it well and they had formed sort of a bond. On the other hand, she spent so much time trying to get rid of her and she's not even someone Caitlin can have an actual conversation with. 

[Lady Calypso]

I get the analogy that Cisco/Cynthia's relationship is like a long-distance relationship. I just don't think it works. Breaching theoretically probably takes seconds. It's actually much faster to breach than to get in a car and drive to go meet with someone. Now, if their issue was that they both live very hectic lives, then that could have worked better. I mean, Cynthia's job could have been tough in the sense that she could always be working and it gives her little time to spend with Cisco for too long before needing to get back. They didn't really present the option that way. Then again, they really do make it seem like breaching is easy. 

Oh look. Yet another loss for the team. Sure, Harry (and Cecile) made some progress, but it wasn't enough. Marlize is our only hope.

Caitlin wants KF back. Goddamnit, Caitlin, you're going to be stupid for your alter ego. Fannnntastic. 

And the end, with Mystery

Dawn Allen. I mean, it's not like it's not obvious at this point that she's Barry and Iris' future kid.

And it seems like she's there to save Iris or something, because it seems like we're getting another Iris In Danger arc. At least judging by the sad look she got when Iris came to the door...and also the purple streak of lightning as she sped away. 

We also now know that Cecile gives birth in the finale. How convenient.

[phoenics]

Is mystery girl really

 

Dawn Allen?

 Her lightning was a mix of purple and gold... 

Something's up though - it can't be that simple.  I'm also beginning to think Caitlin goes full on bad because I think it's connected to Mystery Girl's reaction to her at Jitters a few episodes back.  And tonight how Caitlin is acting up to get her powers back and refusing to listen to common sense (Iris).

I think Mystery Girl doesn't like KF/Caitlin, lol.  I wouldn't like the bish who tried to kill my mom (and never apologized) either.

But if Mystery Girl isn't

 

Dawn Allen (or Jenni Ognats), then is there a possibility that she's Danielle West (Joe and Cecile's future child)?

So glad Marlize left Devoe.  She was too good for him.  She said her husband was The Thinker's first victim, but honestly he was a megalomaniac when she met him.

Edited May 2, 2018 by phoenics

[BeautifulFlower]

Mystery Girl has purposely met everyone, but Iris. she gave a weird expression once Iris was heard. What's going on?

Once again, Caitlin does something selfish and doesn't get called out on it. She wanted to get her powers back so bad that she risked their plan and tried to freeze DeVoe, and it got Cynthia almost killed.

So...DeVoe's plan is to make everyone dumb.

I got why Cynthia and Cisco broke up. Sure it may have been easy to go visit each other, but what happens if they got engaged. Neither one of them was going to give up their lives on their respective Earth just to be together on the other's. So breaking up was for the best.

I'm glad to see Marlize stand up to DeVoe.

[scarynikki12]

Episode threads are for episode discussion.  They are not for comic discussion, spoilers, previews, or convincing posters that their opinions are wrong.  We have threads for comic and spoiler discussions.  If you wish to reference comics, previews, or spoilers, that's allowed but they must all be tagged as spoilers and they cannot move discussion from the episode itself.  Posts that fail to use the spoiler tag will be hidden and repeat offenders will be warned. 

[tennisgurl]

Yes, tell him where to shove it Marlize! Your too good for him! That exit with the chair while she practically flipped her hair was all kinds of badass. Marlize might not be a good guy, but she seems to have some decency left, and she could be an ally in stopping her crazy husband. 

I like the friendship between Cecil and Harry. Its quite cute. 

Less cute is the breakup between Gypsy and Cisco. They were a super cute couple (and they both have such fabulous hair!), and I think they could have made their long distance romance work. I mean, they both have the power to instantly see each other with portals, thats easier than most couples have! That being said, they do both have super busy schedules, so I can see why they decided to split. Still sad though. 

It was nice seeing Barry and Iris being supportive friends for Cisco though. It was sweet seeing how much they were trying to be supportive, and how much Barry and Iris were on the same page. when they dont give them endless pointless angst, they really are a good couple. 

So yeah, I think the colors of the light that mystery girl gives off probably gives away that secret identity of hers. 

[adora721]

39 minutes ago, phoenics said:

And tonight how Caitlin is acting up to get her powers back and refusing to listen to common sense (Iris).

Does she even explain why she wants Killer Frost back? Like for the good of the team or some plausible reason? Does anyone ask her why she wants KF back so badly?

35 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Once again, Caitlin does something selfish and doesn't get called out on it. She wanted to get her powers back so bad that she risked their plan and tried to freeze DeVoe, and it got Cynthia almost killed.

The coddling of Caitlin is insane; why do they infantalize her constantly?

[mxc90]

The way the mystery girl was acting towards Joe and Cecile, I wonder if one of them will die shortly after the child is born.

It's about time Marlize packed her seat and leave!

[Lantern7]

Okay...so DeVoe is basically a dude that wants to enlighten humanity . . . by making it dumber, or least more simple. Question: Is it possible that he's been testing his theory out on a smaller scale? Like, maybe in another city? To another city? Yes, I'm blaming him for the current season of Arrow, where most everybody's IQ has dropped, and the dude with the mumblegrowl and so little charisma has taken over Star City.

Marlize may as well be wearing red shirts at this point. Also, I think that she probably didn't come to the conclusion that her loving husband has been doping her to forget stuff. Seriously, she's gonna join Team Flash, and she's going to die. Also, I think that Mystery Girl's story will unfold next season, and that Ralph comes back to join Cliff in reenacting the climax between Buddy Love and Prof. Klump in The Nutty Professor. Now, granted, I thought that . . . that guy . . .the British guy . . . Malfoy guy . . . was toast last season, and I was wrong. It just feels that the possible of a clever swerve is dimming. If Arrow is basically doing a cover version of Captain America: Civil War, Flash would be Avengers: Infinity War, in the sense that the foe is so overpowered (super-intelligence AND twelve sets of powers!!), it's ridiculous. Well, at least DeVoe isn't purple with the weird chin folds.

ETA: Shit, just realized that Ralph can turn his skin black, which means DeVoe might be able to turn it purple. Knowing him, he'd shift into a Thanos form, float on his secondary chair (Thanos has one of those!), and spoil Infinity War, because he's become that big of a prick.

How long before Cisco tries to find Lisa Snart? "Hey, girl! Look, just wonder where you are so we can hook up and do stuff, maybe let me fix your gold gun. What? Where has your brother been? Well . . . " I do hope Gypsy comes back in a crisis situation, though I'm thinking her dad is more fun to watch.

Hey, Cecile still exists! And now she's Harry's thought catcher! Seriously, the season is wacky enough, and then you remember that Joe is going to be a father some two decades after he knowingly had a child. Oh, and Wally sent Cecile a bassinet once owned by Moses. Of course. Granted, it might not be from when he was a baby. Seriously, I love that even when off the air, Legends of Tomorrow reminds the series that gives zero fucks.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Lantern7

[phoenics]

14 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

The way the mystery girl was acting towards Joe and Cecile, I wonder if one of them will die shortly after the child is born.

It's about time Marlize packed her seat and leave!

Well -

if Cecile and Joe name their daughter Danielle, then that means they gender swapped the comic canon baby Daniel West, where his mother dies in childbirth (*cries*) and then later his father becomes an alcoholic.

I've been worried about Cecile ever since she got pregnant.  They still haven't properly explained her telepathy.

[Maverick]

21 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Does she even explain why she wants Killer Frost back? Like for the good of the team or some plausible reason? Does anyone ask her why she wants KF back so badly?

The coddling of Caitlin is insane; why do they infantalize her constantly?

 I'm holding on to my theory that Caitlin had an alternate personality before she got powers, and when she did they caused that other personality to manifest as Killer Frost.  The other personality is the protector, the one that does all the dark things sweet, congenial Caitlin can't.  That personality access the powers because Caitlin can't handle having them.  Now that her powers are gone, the other personality is too and Caitlin can't handle the missing part of her.   

4 minutes ago, mxc90 said:

The way the mystery girl was acting towards Joe and Cecile, I wonder if one of them will die shortly after the child is born.

It's about time Marlize packed her seat and leave!

Her words to Joe and Cecile were ominous.  I'm thinking one (or both) of them is not long for this show.  I also wonder if that's their daughter.  The look she had in the hall after avoiding Iris was odd.  I was more like the look she gave after meeting Harry and Caitlin.

 

 So Wally gave Joe and Cecile Moses' crib.  Good see the Legends crazy is rubbing off on him.  

[adora721]

8 minutes ago, Maverick said:

I'm holding on to my theory that Caitlin had an alternate personality before she got powers, and when she did they caused that other personality to manifest as Killer Frost.  The other personality is the protector, the one that does all the dark things sweet, congenial Caitlin can't.  That personality access the powers because Caitlin can't handle having them.  Now that her powers are gone, the other personality is too and Caitlin can't handle the missing part of her. 

I think your theory has merit. Perhaps Caitlin's therapy session (finally!) and flashback will reveal this to be true. 

 

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

I'm also beginning to think Caitlin goes full on bad because I think it's connected to Mystery Girl's reaction to her at Jitters a few episodes back. 

I also think this theory will come true as well. One way or another, Caity, isn't long for this world, but KF will stay.

[RedVitC]

Don't have a lot of time, just wanted to say: Mystery girl has purple and yellow lighting!! Like Iris and Barry ❤️. So excited for this storyline!

I'll try to comment on the rest of the episode at some other time. There were definitely some interesting other developments with Devoe etc, enjoyed it!

Edited May 2, 2018 by RedVitC

[UNOSEZ]

Good episode… Still surprised marlize bought in that quick. And stayed the course with devoe… That said Lotta blk ladies on the show propping up white guys this episode… The optics were noticeable… My own grandmother even asked about it

[BeautifulFlower]

So DeVoe was basically a jerk when he met Marlize. What did she see in him? 

[phoenics]

17 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 I'm holding on to my theory that Caitlin had an alternate personality before she got powers, and when she did they caused that other personality to manifest as Killer Frost.  The other personality is the protector, the one that does all the dark things sweet, congenial Caitlin can't.  That personality access the powers because Caitlin can't handle having them.  Now that her powers are gone, the other personality is too and Caitlin can't handle the missing part of her.   

Her words to Joe and Cecile were ominous.  I'm thinking one (or both) of them is not long for this show.  I also wonder if that's their daughter.  The look she had in the hall after avoiding Iris was odd.  I was more like the look she gave after meeting Harry and Caitlin.

 

 So Wally gave Joe and Cecile Moses' crib.  Good see the Legends crazy is rubbing off on him.  

Remember Mystery Girl also had Purple and Yellow lightning.  That points to Iris (who had Purple Lightning) and Barry (who has Yellow Lightning).

One question though:  Did the explanation for Cecile's telepathy say that she has meta powers?  I can't remember the cockimamy reasoning Caitlin gave her.  Something like she'd been affected by the dark matter, but it wasn't something she could access except while pregnant because hormones?

I want to believe the Mystery Girl is Dawn - but there is something weird with Cecile's baby and her telepathy... Mystery Girl could also be Danielle West - instead of Daniel West - but the speedster colors aren't right.

[Maverick]

 Caitlin told Cecile she had "gestational powers".   Basically she had dark matter in her system, but it was only activated by the pregnancy and the powers would go away after she gives birth.   

[BeautifulFlower]

Someone on Tumblr and Twitter took notice to this. In the scene at the baby shower, Iris told Caitlin "we would get Killer Frost back." Of course, Iris meant "we" as in the Team. Caitlin told Iris that "I will get her back." I didn't even focus on her words. She said "I". She's going to do it herself without the team's help. Combine that with her going against the plan earlier to bring back Killer Frost by freezing DeVoe, Caitlin really is selfish.

This is also giving me flashback to earlier this season. During those 6 months away from the team, she had problems with Killer Frost again and decided to go work with Amunet in order for some tech instead of going to her so called "friends". Hell, she was going to dip town in 4x05 when Amunet found her. Is there a reason why this woman never goes to the team with her problems?

[ruby24]

I really think the show is unaware of how incredibly selfish Caitlin comes across. She is SUCH a useless character at this point. She doesn't even realize what she did almost got Gypsy killed? What an idiot. I'm sick of her. Most shows at this point do some cast changes, why can't we get rid of her? 

Spoiler

 

The Dawn Allen storyline is what's bringing me back every week. I think the reveal of her as a speedster with Iris and Barry's lightning colors all but confirms her identity. My guess is something bad happened in the future that she's come back to prevent (and Iris has probably forbidden her to time travel, which is why she ran away from her). 

I also wonder if she has to wait to reveal her identity to them until Iris's own pregnancy is confirmed, so that she doesn't jeopardize her own existence, sort of Back to the Future-style. That would make sense and I could see that happening in the finale

 

.

I don't care about DeVoe anymore, but I really love the actress that plays Marlize. She's great! Such charisma and energy. I know none of these shows do genuine female villains (they always become victims at some point so they can avoid being truly evil), but I'm starting to think a better storyline this season would have been to start out with DeVoe's plan, but for Marlize to grow tired of her husband, do away with him in the middle to late part of the season, and rise up to pull off the Enlightenment herself somehow. That would have been cool. But like I said, they don't do female villains like that.

[Jack Kerouac]

Wow, another episode where Barry and the team loses because they are morons.

DaVoe is trying to steal something. THIS time we'll stop him! *DaVoe kicks their asses and leaves.*

DaVoe is trying to steal something else! THIS time we'll stop him! *DaVoe kicks their asses and leaves.*

Rinse. Repeat.

[BeautifulFlower]

4 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I really think the show is unaware of how incredibly selfish Caitlin comes across. She is SUCH a useless character at this point. She doesn't even realize what she did almost got Gypsy killed? What an idiot. I'm sick of her. Most shows at this point do some cast changes, why can't we get rid of her? 

 

It's getting annoying. Everybody else can get called out on things, but Caitlin is this precious angel. And this whole wanting Killer Frost is pointless. Not because it came out of nowhere, but that nothing will change or has changed. Seriously, if she gets her powers back, what about her changes? 

[adora721]

24 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Caitlin told Iris that "I will get her back." I didn't even focus on her words. She said "I". She's going to do it herself without the team's help. Combine that with her going against the plan earlier to bring back Killer Frost by freezing DeVoe, Caitlin really is selfish.

 

7 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

really think the show is unaware of how incredibly selfish Caitlin comes across.

Yes to both of these. Caitlin Snow has not grown at all in the four seasons I've watched her.  Her focus is always on what's in it for me with rare moments of selflessness urged on by someone else.

[VCRTracking]

I definitely now think the mystery girl is

Spoiler

Dawn Allen, Barry and Iris' daughter.

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I didn't even focus on her words. She said "I"

Yeah, that was weirdly stated. It made her sound like she didnt think the team could handle it, and made her sound really self centered. It sounded needlessly argumentative towards Iris too, who was just trying to say something nice and comforting! 

She also deserved for getting told off for showing up and putting them all in danger, and almost got Gypsy killed. Normally that would have some other character have to give her a speech or talking to about why she made such a dumb mistake, but Caitlin doesn't normally get those. I normally like Caitlin, but that was really annoying. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Trini]

So I liked that they gave us some Clifford/Marlize and Enlightenment backstory, but it was still about 3 or so episodes too late.

Yay!! Marlize finally smartens up and leaves DeVoe! But now I kinda fear for her life. DeVoe is going to die, but I hope Marlize gets a shot at redemption, or at a shot at being a future villain in her own right.

Cisco and Cynthia, NOOOO!! ???? I hate that they were fighting! But good job on Carlos selling Cisco's heartbreak. However, I'm still holding on to hope that they'll be together again. I don't think they introduced that job offer for no reason; they could have broken up without it. I think Cisco will take the job at the end of the season and reconcile with Cynthia.

It's been a while since Barry and Cisco have had a heart to heart. See? Life without Ralph is better already!

Again it was nice to have scenes with Joe/Harry and Harry/Cecile. Finally another WestAllen loft get-together!

It's good that the team has made some progress on figuring out DeVoe's plans; but I hate that they still aren't any closer to stopping him, and - like every other season - the solution is going to be a dues ex machina in the third act of the season finale.

Well, it's one step forward, two steps back with Caitlin. I was actually glad they were making some small progress, but now she's showing up unannounced to attack people to bring back Killer Frost? (How did she even get there??) When they haven't really established WHY, especially when she's only very recently starting missing KF after trying to get rid of or control her and being scared of her for most of the time. SIGH

Mystery Girl! again! So she's a speedster and clearly related to the Wests somehow. And thanks for the due date! Is there some future crisis for the Wests/Allens?

Edited May 2, 2018 by Trini

[TDT]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Yay!! Marlize finally smartens up and leaves DeVoe! But now I kinda fear for her life. DeVoe is going to die, but I hope Marlize gets a shot at redemption, or at a shot at being a future villain in her own right.

Suppose Marlize somehow obtains Devoe's powers and becomes a new version of Thinker..(i'll call it and say she is the one who provides the killing blow in the finale..)

 

As for (presumably Dawn Allen),i wonder if she will also be involved in the big finale battle as well..

Next week they try and get Amunet to help stop Devoe..didnt she and KF have some history..?

[thuganomics85]

Well, shit!  Of course they break up Cisco and Gypsy because apparently being separated in different universe (despite apparently being able to travel to and from in seconds) is too hard, and basically Gypsy isn't quite as into him, as he is.  That sucks, but I guess it would have been worse.  At least there is a chance that a reconcile could happen.

So, the Enlightenment is basically DeVoe wanting to make everyone on the planet dumb, because he thinks humans suck, and are always going to take the violent approach. And he apparently was always like this, and even almost pushed away Marlize, but then she almost got killed in a terrorist attack (which involved something she created, I think?), so that's how she became his loyal follower.  Well....until now!  Yep, Marlize has finally had enough of his disrespecting shit and lust for power (oh, and killing innocents), and has just high-tailed it out of there with his fancy chair!  Hee!  I'll at least give this season credit for bringing in Kim Engelbrecht and allowing her to shine.

Cecile/Harry was fun, and the idea of her being able to help by memorizing his ideas before he forgets them is a nice touch.

I have no idea what they are trying to do with Caitlin anymore.

Oh, Barry!  Your heart is in the right place over your belief that you can win because Team Flash is "family", but this isn't a Fast & the Furious movie!

They really are going to milk the Mystery Girl for all she is worth, I see.  At least it has been confirmed that she is a Speedster.  I still have a feeling that I know exactly who she'll end up being. 

[cambridgeguy]

7 hours ago, Maverick said:

Her words to Joe and Cecile were ominous.  I'm thinking one (or both) of them is not long for this show.  I also wonder if that's their daughter.  The look she had in the hall after avoiding Iris was odd.  I was more like the look she gave after meeting Harry and Caitlin.

Normally I'd say they're safe because that's one damned depressing way to wrap up a season that was supposed to be lighter and fun, but it's a tradition for a good guy to die in the finale.  It was Eddie in S1, Henry in S2, and HR in S3.  

I guess one way they can do it is for Caitlin to die but KF to remain as the permanent personality.  There's the seed of an interesting idea with her quest to get KF back - just make it as simple as a selfish desire to keep her superpowers instead of being a normal person again.  They kind of did this with Wally back when he was desperate to become a speedster but it's something worth considering since I think anyone who has powers would have a lot of trouble dealing with losing them permanently.

[KirkB]

Good on Marlize for finally leaving. She might have agreed with the idea of his plan, or the intent at least, but he's going down a darker road than she's comfortable following. She wants to make humanity better, even if it means tearing them down a peg first, but he's apparently in it for the personal aggrandizement and stroking his massive ego. Plus for some reason I really like the fact she took his chair.

Honestly, until Breacher showed up a couple of episodes back I wasn't even sure if Cisco and Gypsy were still together, because it seems like he hardly ever talks about her and she's obviously busy a lot. So their breakup doesn't have quite the same impact for me.

I also don't have much sympathy for Harry. You did it to yourself. You poisoned your own brain, now you have to suffer the consequences.

As for the mystery girl, I honestly don't care who she is. I'm not an avid comic reader, or at least I haven't been in a long time, and I don't know as much about the Flash or his side characters as I'm sure some people do. I guess I'm supposed to be intrigued as to who this mysterious speedster is, but it's just a drawn out mystery I have no investment in and little interest for, and a scene that could be used for characters I do know and care about. Some people watching have probably never even picked up a Flash comic. How are they supposed to know or care about her?

[kitmerlot1213]

9 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Someone on Tumblr and Twitter took notice to this. In the scene at the baby shower, Iris told Caitlin "we would get Killer Frost back." Of course, Iris meant "we" as in the Team. Caitlin told Iris that "I will get her back." I didn't even focus on her words. She said "I". She's going to do it herself without the team's help. Combine that with her going against the plan earlier to bring back Killer Frost by freezing DeVoe, Caitlin really is selfish.

This is also giving me flashback to earlier this season. During those 6 months away from the team, she had problems with Killer Frost again and decided to go work with Amunet in order for some tech instead of going to her so called "friends". Hell, she was going to dip town in 4x05 when Amunet found her. Is there a reason why this woman never goes to the team with her problems?

I think Caitlin told Iris "I'll get her back" as in more of a self-affirmation "I will do this" kind of thing and not dismissing the team.  Also, Caitlin did go to the team for help at the beginning of the episode but then it became about Harry's losing his intelligence and seriously, the team is spread so thin right now with their plans for DeVoe constantly getting ruined, I can understand Caitlin's not wanting to burden them with her Killer Frost drama and trying to solve it herself.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't Caitlin try and freeze DeVoe after Marlize knocked Cisco out and DeVoe had Barry pinned to the ground, almost like freezing him might have been a last ditch effort to stop DeVoe?

[BeautifulFlower]

Of course Iris haters are nitpicking things in this episode to hate about. 

You actually got people praising Caitlin for say she will get Killer Frost back by herself. To them, Caitlin was "putting Iris in her place" and thought Iris' "we" was referring to her and Caitlin, not the team. It's like they pick and choose what they want to hate about.

Then there's the attack on DeVoe. Some said Iris telling them what to do made them seem incompetent (mostly Barry). First off, Barry has bee portrayed as incompetent since season 1. Second, when I listen to Iris dialogue doing that, it sounded like they already came up with the plan.

After Barry hit DeVoe, she said "Now, Gypsy." That to me sounded like the plan was already made and she was reminding them of their parts.

[BeautifulFlower]

5 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

 

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't Caitlin try and freeze DeVoe after Marlize knocked Cisco out and DeVoe had Barry pinned to the ground, almost like freezing him might have been a last ditch effort to stop DeVoe?

When Caitlin started to freeze DeVoe, Iris said "Caitlin what are you doing?" Caitlin response was "I'm getting her back." It was basically implied that freezing DeVoe was not apart of the plan. DeVoe took notice and confirmed that Caitlin was trying to get him to trigger Killer Frost. Caitlin was doing something purely out of selfishness. 

 

12 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I think Caitlin told Iris "I'll get her back" as in more of a self-affirmation "I will do this" kind of thing and not dismissing the team.  Also, Caitlin did go to the team for help at the beginning of the episode but then it became about Harry's losing his intelligence and seriously, the team is spread so thin right now with their plans for DeVoe constantly getting ruined, I can understand Caitlin's not wanting to burden them with her Killer Frost drama and trying to solve it herself.

 

Maybe it was Caitlin's tone, but it sounded like she was dismissing the team help. It really reminded me of earlier this season. I mentioned it above how she could have came back to the team for help, but went to Amunet. It's like she doesn't want their help.

Quote

Also, Caitlin did go to the team for help at the beginning of the episode but then it became about Harry's losing his intelligence and seriously, the team is spread so thin right now with their plans for DeVoe constantly getting ruined, I can understand Caitlin's not wanting to burden them with her Killer Frost drama and trying to solve it herself.

I know she went to the team for help earlier. When they learned of his intelligence, she offered to try to help revert it, but Harry told me no. So that told me she was willing to do something simultaneously while still helping with DeVoe. How come the team can't help her at the same time? They really never gave the impression that she was going to feel like a burden. She already made the decision to do it herself during the attack on DeVoe. However, in my opinion, it just seems like she gave up on the team's help way too quickly?

[Trini]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Well, shit!  Of course they break up Cisco and Gypsy because apparently being separated in different universe (despite apparently being able to travel to and from in seconds) is too hard, and basically Gypsy isn't quite as into him, as he is.  That sucks, but I guess it would have been worse.  At least there is a chance that a reconcile could happen.

I'm at least happy that they got a proper break-up scene, and talked to each other; way better than the nonsense with Wally and Jesse!

[benteen]

Once again Team Flash gets their ass kicked in an episode that feels like more filler.  Moving along...

I did enjoy some of the flashbacks with Devoe but isn't the Unabomber anti-technology agenda kind of a late in the game change for his character?

Barry acts like an obsessed jerk...that makes what?  70 episodes of this show where he's acted that way?  That's probably a conservative estimate on my part.

I don't get why Cisco and Gypsy have to break up either other than the script said they have to.  They have the quickest long-distance relationship imaginable.

Edited May 2, 2018 by benteen

[adora721]

2 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I think Caitlin told Iris "I'll get her back" as in more of a self-affirmation "I will do this" kind of thing and not dismissing the team.

Just re-watched the scene. After Iris says, "We will.", Caitlin said, "No. I will." Caitlin was dismissing the team. Even in Todd Helbing's interview, he stated that Caitlin would try to get KF back,  "She’s on the hunt to get her back scientifically, or some other way."http://tvline.com/2018/04/23/flash-season-4-episode-19-preview-leo-snart-siren-x/

Iris' facial response to Caitlin's affirmation implied that Iris recognized that Caitlin is going to go rogue and attempt to get KF  back without considering the team or the mission just like Caitlin did in this episode. There's no way to make Caitlin selfless in this episode; like always, Caitlin is looking out for Caitlin. She's not even trying to hide her self interest by stating she needs KF back to help the team defeat DeVoe.

[Kate45]

2 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I think Caitlin told Iris "I'll get her back" as in more of a self-affirmation "I will do this" kind of thing and not dismissing the team.  Also, Caitlin did go to the team for help at the beginning of the episode but then it became about Harry's losing his intelligence and seriously, the team is spread so thin right now with their plans for DeVoe constantly getting ruined, I can understand Caitlin's not wanting to burden them with her Killer Frost drama and trying to solve it herself.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't Caitlin try and freeze DeVoe after Marlize knocked Cisco out and DeVoe had Barry pinned to the ground, almost like freezing him might have been a last ditch effort to stop DeVoe?

It came off as extremely dismissive of the team. I didn't take Iris saying "we" as it being her and Caitlin, but as the team working together. Every time Caitlin goes off on her own, it's to dire circumstances (e.g. Amunet). I wish she'd learn this lesson. 

Even going out there with the gun (how did she get there?!?), had nothing to do with protecting anyone on the team. She literally said "I'm trying to get her back". She never mentioned the team or trying to help them defeat DeVoe. Even DeVoe knew why she was out there as he said she was trying to get scared to get her "better half back".

Caitlin was extremely selfish, and I totally believe her trying to get KF back will be her downfall. I honestly don't get any other explanation for her actions. 

[adora721]

5 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

It was Eddie in S1, Henry in S2, and HR in S3.  

You forgot Ronnie also died in S1. Perhaps another Raymond will die, too, this season - his wife.

[UNOSEZ]

I think however it goes down with caitlin.. It has a negative effect on house west... Be it Iris Joe or Cecile... Cuz when mystery girl( she's blk so let's just assume she's a west every other multiple episode blk person has been)  saw caitlin and harry she got upset... 

[Kate45]

15 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

 

Mystery Girl has purposely met everyone, but Iris. she gave a weird expression once Iris was heard. What's going on?

 

So, I had another thought. Maybe it wasn't Iris she was trying to avoid. Maybe it was Barry? Perhaps she thought he may recognize her from the wedding. Or even Cisco or Caitlin, since she's met all of them before and they were all at the party. 

[BeautifulFlower]

1 minute ago, Kate45 said:

So, I had another thought. Maybe it wasn't Iris she was trying to avoid. Maybe it was Barry? Perhaps she thought he may recognize her from the wedding. Or even Cisco or Caitlin, since she's met all of them before and they were all at the party. 

I rewatched the scene plenty of times. From the way she was standing in the door frame, she couldn't see Barry. She made that weird expression when she heard Iris and saw Iris walking up. Mystery Girl is avoiding meeting Iris for a reason.

[Kate45]

29 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I rewatched the scene plenty of times. From the way she was standing in the door frame, she couldn't see Barry. She made that weird expression when she heard Iris and saw Iris walking up. Mystery Girl is avoiding meeting Iris for a reason.

But, why show up at her house? It was an anomaly that Iris or Barry didn't answer the door. She shouldn't have guessed that Cecile would open Barry/Iris' door. I'm not sure that she's avoiding them, but she may have lost her will to actually meet Iris at the last minute. Otherwise, why go there at all?

She went up to Barry at the wedding, but the other people she has met at Jitters. Also, I'm still trying to figure out how she knew where Barry and Iris' lived. 

On another note, why are these people still taking random gifts from strangers after what happened last time?!?! Lol. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Kate45

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Kate45 said:

But, why show up at her house? It was an anomaly that Iris or Barry didn't answer the door. She shouldn't have guessed that Cecile would open Barry/Iris' door. I'm not sure that she's avoiding them, but she may have lost her will to actually meet Iris at the last minute. Otherwise, why go there at all?

Well, she was delivering a baby gift to Joe/Cecile, so since she seems to know the WestAllen family pretty well (knowing what day Cecile will have her baby), then she likely knew the day of the baby shower. She didn't seem ready to meet Iris, for some reason, but she was probably working up the nerve. If Iris had opened the door, then she wouldn't have had the chance to really run and avoid her.It seems like she was fine meeting everyone else, but it's Iris that has her scared. 

[Cekrypton1]

10 hours ago, TDT said:

Suppose Marlize somehow obtains Devoe's powers and becomes a new version of Thinker

"*I* am the one who thinks!"

[Kate45]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, she was delivering a baby gift to Joe/Cecile, so since she seems to know the WestAllen family pretty well (knowing what day Cecile will have her baby), then she likely knew the day of the baby shower. She didn't seem ready to meet Iris, for some reason, but she was probably working up the nerve. If Iris had opened the door, then she wouldn't have had the chance to really run and avoid her.It seems like she was fine meeting everyone else, but it's Iris that has her scared. 

Your last point is exactly what has me questioning her actions. If Iris had answered the door, she wouldn't have been able to get away in time. Which begs the question, why go to Iris' house if you don't want to meet her?

It doesn't make sense. If she wanted to give Joe and Cecile a gift, she should have gone to THEIR home to give them the gift. Or should could have gone back to Jitters. Pretty sure Cecile has been there more than Iris this season, lol. 

She may very well be trying to avoid Iris (which has been my thought for a while), but her actions of going to the place where Iris lives makes me question that idea. Unless she's psychic and knew that Cecile would answer the door. 

[Katsullivan]

3 minutes ago, Kate45 said:

Which begs the question, why go to Iris' house if you don't want to meet her?

I thought this was a good enough explanation:

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

She didn't seem ready to meet Iris, for some reason, but she was probably working up the nerve. If Iris had opened the door, then she wouldn't have had the chance to really run and avoid her.It seems like she was fine meeting everyone else, but it's Iris that has her scared. 

Basically, she was going to meet Iris... then she chickened out? 

It's telling that she didn't dash away at once. She stayed within earshot until Iris walked back into the house before she flashed out of the building. 

Basically she was acting like a stalker.

[ruby24]

I kind of think Cecile should leave Joe for Harry. They're actually really cute together. I don't know if anyone else thinks this.