S02.E03: Baggage

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Offred reflects on her relationship with her mother as she navigates her way through Gilead. In Little America, Moira tries to cope with the trauma she endured.

[chocolatine]

This must have been the tensest hour of television I've watched in my entire life. I almost went crazy with fear for June, and it's really dawned on me that being beyond book territory now means we have absolutely no idea what comes next - same as June. When she got to the airfield I knew that was too good to be true, but a small part of me was still hoping for a miracle when the little plane started taking off.

To me, the fact that the econo-family that took June in didn't come home from church was almost more devastating than any murder/torture scene we've seen on screen. It must have been for something unrelated to June because nobody came for her. Maybe someone else discovered that the man was a Muslim? And the wife will now become a Handmaid like June - their conversation was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Finally, I loved all the scenes with Junes mother, and June's quiet devastation at seeing pictures of her mother in the colonies destroyed me.

[AnswersWanted]

Of course the ending was telegraphed from the beginning, to me, but even still the way it happened gutted me.  

But it’s weird in the way that it did, because the first thought which entered my mind as the plane was blasted with bullets and the pilot was pulled from the cockpit and forced to kneel and I saw that gun pointed at his head, and when the trigger was pulled and he fell dead, my first thought was at least he didn’t suffer for long...

And the fact that this world that they have created can make you have such an immediate and automatic response to seeing someone murdered in cold blood...that you feel a sense of relief that the person did not feel excessive pain, that they were not tortured or worse. That realization hit me hard, about as hard as any scene this show has so far put forth. 

I hope that family made it but yet I know they didn’t and that very stupid husband did what he thought was right and if that is not proof of true bravery I don’t kno what is. The little boy was adorable, perhaps he was spared. 

 June infuriated me from start to finish in this episode, seriously? Opening the map in view of everyone on the train?  She already knew that the safe house had been compromised from the get go and yet she might as well have been wearing a giant flashing, neon sign that said “here you go, drag me back into the abyss bitches, please and thank you.”  

I am now really convinced that if Luke had abandoned her and just run with Hannah those two would’ve been in Canada before they were even noticed missing. Gah. 

Poor Moira, still trapped and hiding. Good to know that the girl has regained her voice. I wish those three had gotten more airtime this episode, it would have helped me ignore some  of the utterly brainless, stupid, dumbass things June kept doing. 

[Brn2bwild]

That was brutal.

Like June, I could see signs all around me that she was going to be captured before the end of the season, but I chose to ignore them and believe that she would get out.  So that last-minute gunfire was a gut punch.

The tension throughout this episode was superb.  Fuck you, show, for making me feel like my insides have been dug out.

[OHWVphlebo]

I really think Im going to avoid watching the rest of the episodes until they are all released. I cant put myself through this torture.  It makes you feel emotionally drained. I'll just wait till they are all released and be emotionally drained all at once.....Im like she's back with the Waterfords, WTF.

[VagueDisclaimer]

39 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

 June infuriated me from start to finish in this episode, seriously? Opening the map in view of everyone on the train?  She already knew that the safe house had been compromised from the get go and yet she might as well have been wearing a giant flashing, neon sign that said “here you go, drag me back into the abyss bitches, please and thank you.”  

I am now really convinced that if Luke had abandoned her and just run with Hannah those two would’ve been in Canada before they were even noticed missing. Gah. 

Outside of opening that map(which didn’t cause a problem), what else was June supposed to do, though? Stay in the apartment after something obviously detained the family and try not to make a single noise? Try to get back to the Globe office, when she is wanted and doesn’t know the rules of this part of the new world? All she knew was the possible next step. There was no winning for her, just a couple of choices, all with a spectrum of terrifying conclusions.  

[AnswersWanted]

15 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

Outside of opening that map(which didn’t cause a problem), what else was June supposed to do, though? Stay in the apartment after something obviously detained the family and try not to make a single noise? Try to get back to the Globe office, when she is wanted and doesn’t know the rules of this part of the new world? All she knew was the possible next step. There was no winning for her, just a couple of choices, all with a spectrum of terrifying conclusions.  

 

 My issue wasn’t so much about what she could do to find freedom, because she was always going to be trapped in Gilead and always be dependent on someone rescuing her, my issue was with how careless she acted at times.  

At the beginning of the episode she mentioned that she had been hiding out for two months, and yet in those two months she had not developed any good coping and hiding skills? No ability to think on her feet a little better?

My first issue arose when June admitted she hadn’t wanted to wake Nick up from his little sleepover with her because then he would leave and how did that help her. Well, one could say it would be a huge help if Nick wasn’t discovered missing or not where he was supposed to be since his boss was also the man bound and determined to haul June back into the fold at all costs.

Nick could easily rouse suspicion with the slightest wrong move but June prefers to have him hang around for extra cuddle time? Sure, she’s lonely and needy but there comes a time when staying alive and remaining free should be the first priority. 

Nick then gave her a heads up to get ready to be moved and yet when the time came she had nothing prepared, like a pack with clothing and water and maybe a weapon, she had no clue what was coming next and Nick had already informed her he knew nothing as well. She had only herself to depend on for care and yet June scurried out of that building with nothing but the clothes on her back and terror in her heart. 

Then we see her inside of that apartment, literally in the belly of the beast, and she was warned to not make a sound, that people could be listening at all times, but what does she do? Does she find a quiet spot to sit and wait silently? Maybe map out a plan B to leave immediately because she was practically a sitting duck in there anyhow, anything else instead of organizing the little boy’s toys? No, she moves around the apartment, making obvious foot noise when the place is meant to be unoccupied. She kept peeking out of the window in broad daylight as if moving curtains in a “empty” apartment, again, would not draw attention. 

  I don’t think there was a perfect plan for June, she was flying by the seat of her pants, everybody in the resistance is frankly, but to me one would think that trying to stay under the radar as much as possible, being as quiet as possible, remaining unseen and as unnoticeable as possible, not reading a map on a train when women are not allowed reading materials in public, that is just common sense that she seemed to be lacking. Maybe no one noticed her reading the map but why even take the chance? She was surrounded by the enemy so act like it. 

I think that her behavior, in fact, ties back into last week’s episode two when she decided to have a mental breakdown and basically threatened to leave Nick and make a run for it. I get that she is scared and that obviously she is terrified, but she’s also had two months to get her shit together somewhat, that is what I thought was lacking, but ymmv. 

 I always knew that she would be recaptured, the show would sort of fizzle out if she gained freedom so quickly, however nothing about June’s journey has been easy and I didn’t want her to make it easier, in any way, to risk recapture and that’s where I felt frustrated and annoyed with tonight’s direction. Certainly it was going to be nearly impossible for her to get away but make them earn it, work for it, make it hard, and make it, whether that be a final mad dash or a final stand, count. 

[Umbelina]

I was glad to see June finding things at the Boston Globe, things to do, things to wear, running to keep in shape.  I wish we'd seen a bit more about how Nick is coming and going, but I guess with the "next Thursday" thing, we are expected to see him still working at the Waterford's, and coming there when he can on his day off?  Although even that is a tad problematic since he lives above the garage, where to they think he's spending his nights off?  I did wonder why she didn't pack at least a small bag of some of her purloined stuff though.

June made some mistakes this episode, but she's not Super Spy trained escape, it hard to imagine any normal person not making mistakes in those circumstances.  The ones that bothered me the most had to do with walking in front of sheer curtains, and worse, moving one to peek out the window.  As far as the map?  Didn't bother me at all, she was very careful there, and trying to figure out which stop to get off, and where to go after that, all without the aid of street signs. Still, she didn't wait or just sit there.  She found a disguise to fit in, and without knowing anything about the trains or streets, was able to find her way to that airfield, so props for that.  It was brave, smart, and dangerous, but then again, everything in June's life now is dangerous.

I admit, I was disappointed to see what the Econwives were wearing, no striped outfits signifying that they were Handmaid/Wife/Martha's all rolled into one, but even that would have almost seemed OK, except they really didn't have a uniform at all, more a bunch of different outfits that were apparently all OK to wear, even outside, as long as they wore their knit hats.  Econwives seem to have the best lives of Gilead's women, even with the fear of it ending at any moment, husband working for the Resistance or not.  I do hope we find out what happened to them, but I don't think June would.  It's the kind of world where people are disappeared.  Also, children are a hot commodity, as are women who can have them.  I don't think he got caught or they would have come for June right away.  It could just be a trumped up charge, or as June said, maybe they had an emergency?  Magic 8 ball says "doubtful."

Most of the cinematography was great, I was very impressed.

I wish they were releasing two episodes each week, unlike many here, I'm more of a "rip the bandaid off" type.  I'd like to watch it all at once and not exactly "get it over with," since I really do love this show, but more of a "I'm disturbed anyway, so keep going please."

ETA

Was "Ruby" the name Moira used in Jezebel's?

Anyone know what song June and her mother were singing in the car?

Edited May 2, 2018 by Umbelina

[Hollandaise]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Was "Ruby" the name Moira used in Jezebel's?

Anyone know what song June and her mother were singing in the car?

Moira did use the name "Ruby" in Jezabel's.

The song is "Hollaback Girl" by Gwen Stefani.

[VagueDisclaimer]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I was glad to see June finding things at the Boston Globe, things to do, things to wear, running to keep in shape.  I wish we'd seen a bit more about how Nick is coming and going, but I guess with the "next Thursday" thing, we are expected to see him still working at the Waterford's, and coming there when he can on his day off?  Although even that is a tad problematic since he lives above the garage, where to they think he's spending his nights off?  I did wonder why she didn't pack at least a small bag of some of her purloined stuff though.

June made some mistakes this episode, but she's not Super Spy trained escape, it hard to imagine any normal person not making mistakes in those circumstances.  The ones that bothered me the most had to do with walking in front of sheer curtains, and worse, moving one to peek out the window.  As far as the map?  Didn't bother me at all, she was very careful there, and trying to figure out which stop to get off, and where to go after that, all without the aid of street signs. Still, she didn't wait or just sit there.  She found a disguise to fit in, and without knowing anything about the trains or streets, was able to find her way to that airfield, so props for that.  It was brave, smart, and dangerous, but then again, everything in June's life now is dangerous.

I admit, I was disappointed to see what the Econwives were wearing, no striped outfits signifying that they were Handmaid/Wife/Martha's all rolled into one, but even that would have almost seemed OK, except they really didn't have a uniform at all, more a bunch of different outfits that were apparently all OK to wear, even outside, as long as they wore their knit hats.  Econwives seem to have the best lives of Gilead's women, even with the fear of it ending at any moment, husband working for the Resistance or not.  I do hope we find out what happened to them, but I don't think June would.  It's the kind of world where people are disappeared.  Also, children are a hot commodity, as are women who can have them.  I don't think he got caught or they would have come for June right away.  It could just be a trumped up charge, or as June said, maybe they had an emergency?  Magic 8 ball says "doubtful."

Most of the cinematography was great, I was very impressed.

I wish they were releasing two episodes each week, unlike many here, I'm more of a "rip the bandaid off" type.  I'd like to watch it all at once and not exactly "get it over with," since I really do love this show, but more of a "I'm disturbed anyway, so keep going please."

ETA

Was "Ruby" the name Moira used in Jezebel's?

Anyone know what song June and her mother were singing in the car?

 

I can’t decide if they are purposely keeping Nick on the poorly drawn side because we mainly see him only from June’s perspective or if they want to keep a mysterious air about his character. Either way, it leaves me without a good read on a character i feel we should know better.  I agree and wish more was focused on how Nick is able to make these visits and what else is going on before June was recaptured. Of course it was going to happen, but this felt...wasteful as far as story goes. We barely saw new story for June, she didn’t get any new info or any new development before she’s sent back to the wings. That felt a bit pointless. 

Of course, June is likely not just going to be returned to exactly where she was and she is certainly going back to being treated much worse, despite the pregnancy, but i guess i wanted at least another episode of ~possibility~ before we returned to The Life. It felt like they just didn’t have any other ideas and that they thought no one was interested in seeing how June was living at the Globe(beyond the music montage), to see her and Nick talk, share some pertinent information, to see her going to another safehouse and adjusting there, meet others trying to escape, have meaningful conversations with anyone else from the resistance, etc. Instead, nope, best just get her recaptured almost right away (in episode time, I mean. i get 2 months have passed onscreen)

I also felt June handled herself pretty well, despite some mistakes. Everything is so shrouded in absolute unknowns, I don’t see so many ways for June to be more prepared with each new change.

I also am more “rip the bandaid off” type. I watched S1 in a binge. I thought maybe i didn’t get to fully appreciate each episode by doing so and that watching the episodes weekly for S2 would be better. Yeah, it’s not. This entire episode was so stressful, but it didn’t leave me wanting a break. I just wanted to know what happened next. 

Yes, “Ruby” was Moira’s name at Jezebel’s. So despite her freedom, Moira still feels trapped.

The song June and her mom were singing was “Hollaback Girl” by Gwen Stefani. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This show makes me so tense! As stressful as it is to watch this show, it makes me that much more grateful that our society hasn't yet devolved to this terrifying level.

I'm glad we got to see more of the relationship between June and her mom. Like most parents, she did her best and wanted better for her child than she had. My issue was that whatever you want for your kids, you still have to let them make their own choices. Telling her not to marry Luke because it meant throwing away her life to play house was out of line. But it was obvious even before that scene that her mother was disappointed in June's life choices.

[DiabLOL]

I can't face what happens next I really can't!

I also binged the first season and caught up with the second and as grim as it was this feels worse to me. So bleak. I still can't fully process the cold torment of that photo of her mom in the colonies with scenes of her mom as the vibrant joyful strong feminist she was. Shit I'm crying again.

I was freaking out about how she was acting on the train (looking at the guards etc) bit frankly it's a wonder she can function at all given all she's been through.

[mishap]

I was hoping that she would get out, and the rest of the season would be about getting Hannah back.    And succeeding, of course!  

I didn't really think that would happen.   I knew June couldn't get out this early in the season, but I thought, well maybe, just maybe, they will figure out a way to get Hannah out too. 

I can't imagine what we are in for next week.  

[littlesue]

From the moment June escaped I hoped she would make it to Canada soon and the rest of the season would be about her, Moira and Luke trying to get Hannah out or even to fight the whole system. Well.. naive me.

Did anybody get how she knew the pilot was a good guy and would fly them out? I first thought he could also work for Gilead and take them back.

I also don‘t wanna see what‘s gonna happen next. Do you remember the moment in season 1 when Serena said „Your baby is safe as long as mine is?“ I‘m really scared they might do something to Hannah to punish June (they can‘t do her much harm at the moment because of the pregnancy) and to stop her from escaping again. I just hope Serena doesn‘t have the power to do this as Hannah seems to live with another family with high status.. They might also hurt/kill Nick and let June watch if they know about what he did and if he is still there.

11 minutes ago, mishap said:

I was hoping that she would get out, and the rest of the season would be about getting Hannah back.    And succeeding, of course!  

I didn't really think that would happen.   I knew June couldn't get out this early in the season, but I thought, well maybe, just maybe, they will figure out a way to get Hannah out too. 

I can't imagine what we are in for next week.  

Haha, same thought. ;)

[AnswersWanted]

I don’t need June turning into Jane Bond, that is obviously unrealistic and would not fit in to this world in any way. I just wish I saw more growth and maturity from her personally. This is something I worried might happen for me during a second season where they are now basically making it all up as they go along. 

In the book June was a highly codependent person and it did not bug me because it is what moved the story along. She was the timid type, fearful, a people pleaser, afraid of being alone, and at the end of her tale there is only enclosing darkness that might deliver her to salvation and freedom or something far worse. I could tolerate that ending, it was masterfully done in my eyes in fact. 

However, the show has now taken June out of that open ended setting, and so we end up with a woman who has been in hiding for over two months, that is not a short amount of time to me. That is time enough to become more self aware, less reliant on others unless absolutely necessary, to learn just some basic survival tips or tricks. 

I am not waiting for her to pull out her inpector gadget novice kit, I just wish she showed me more development at this point. 

I am also not feeling Nick, the actor seems bored to me in his scenes, just very flat and uninterested. Even the love scene last week appeared to me to be forced and uncomfortable, it was night and day from their steamy romp in season one, as if they were two different actors. 

I am not sure what I was really expecting from this second season, but so far I have more quibbles than I thought I might or wish I had.

[Empress1]

I'm very curious about what will happen to June, given the pregnancy. Like, they can't do too much to her physically lest she lose the baby (last season I wondered why she didn't claim to have lost the baby she was never pregnant with after Aunt Lydia tased her), but obviously the punishment will be severe. They'd probably execute her if she weren't pregnant. At best they'd send her to the colonies, but they're not going to do that either if she's pregnant.

41 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

This show makes me so tense! As stressful as it is to watch this show, it makes me that much more grateful that our society hasn't yet devolved to this terrifying level.

I'm glad we got to see more of the relationship between June and her mom. Like most parents, she did her best and wanted better for her child than she had. My issue was that whatever you want for your kids, you still have to let them make their own choices. Telling her not to marry Luke because it meant throwing away her life to play house was out of line. But it was obvious even before that scene that her mother was disappointed in June's life choices.

Yes, June was too conventional for her mother. Working a regular, non-revolutionary job, marriage, a child - all things that would bore her mother. She loved June but just didn't understand why she turned out to be so conventional, nor did she approve. It reminded me a little of an acquaintance I have who is a SAHM, at least for now while her kids are little, and her mother, a lawyer, is always giving her shit about it - "if your marriage doesn't work out, you need to be able to support yourself," etc. (Which is true, but like ... you've made your point, ma'am.) 

[AnswersWanted]

9 minutes ago, littlesue said:

Did anybody get how she knew the pilot was a good guy and would fly them out? I first thought he could also work for Gilead and take them back.

She had no real way of knowing, just like she had no way of knowing the truck driver wasn’t compromised or if the Eco husband was going to help her or deliver her up on a silver platter for his own benefit.

June had to believe he was going to save her, or else she was going to be left without anyone to turn to or trust in an open airfield, her choices weren’t just limited they were nonexistent. Stay and die or leave and still die. 

In the preview for next week June seems to address Serena about the safety of the children, as long as she knows Hannah is safe then so is the unborn baby. But I am curious about how they intend to give June any leverage because they have ways to keep her from harming herself, she is shown chained up in the same horrid setting as the other handmaid was in episode one, and the fetus, but Hannah could easily be fair game. And if they were to openly threaten Hannah or show her being punished for the things June has done, she would crack instantly. 

 All that aside I will be happy to see Rita again, hopefully, I have missed her these first three episodes. I hope that she will get her own episode that expands on her past life and how she came to be a Martha and work for such a high ranking official. I have wondered if perhaps they all knew each other before the Gilead takeover. 

[DiabLOL]

I think I have to keep reminding myself that June started out as a deeply average normal person. She's not suddenly going to become James Bond or McGuyver or Cleopatra etc. 

For example, last season, I was shocked that she told Mrs. Waterford that she wasn't pregnant right away instead of pretending to be until she figured something out. 

 

Agree that the actor playing Nick seems bored. I think we're supposed to read it as mysterious, but.

[chocolatine]

33 minutes ago, littlesue said:

Did anybody get how she knew the pilot was a good guy and would fly them out? I first thought he could also work for Gilead and take them back.

The man who picked her up at the roadsigns warehouse initially told her she'd be brought to a safe house and from there to an airfield where a pilot regularly flies a puddle jumper to Canada; that was when he gave June the map. Then he got the call that the safe house was compromised and the plan changed, but June still had the map and the information about the airfield.

[stephinmn]

Blessed be the Froot Loops.

[AnswersWanted]

18 minutes ago, DiabLOL said:

I think I have to keep reminding myself that June started out as a deeply average normal person. She's not suddenly going to become James Bond or McGuyver or Cleopatra etc. 

For example, last season, I was shocked that she told Mrs. Waterford that she wasn't pregnant right away instead of pretending to be until she figured something out. 

 

Agree that the actor playing Nick seems bored. I think we're supposed to read it as mysterious, but.

 

The fact that everyone involved with Gilead are all average people frankly is part of the appeal for me, it’s why the book resonated so strongly with me because these were people that I knew existed and I knew of. They’re not magical creatures as in Game of Thrones or LOTR and they’re not superheroes or incredibly special or talented people.  That I like.

I just don’t like lazy writing, and by the same point last season I was far more impressed with the show and its’ direction. I just get the feeling they are trying to do too much right now and the overall focus seems muddled and disjointed to me, like they can’t make up their minds on where to go or who to focus on next. 

 The Eco husband showed June more concern and care than Nick did. Maybe he’ll “wake up” once June is back in the house, he had better or else this so called romance of theirs is going to drag on in the worst possible way. 

I can say that I did enjoy June’s mother and her portrayal by the awesome Cherry Jones. I hated to think of what a woman like her must have gone through when Gilead came into power. Perhaps it was under her guidance that those pills came to be in the colonies, I could see her doing that, providing her fellow “unwonen” with  one last escape route. 

[Umbelina]

I finally realized that June's newspaper clippings project upstairs at the Globe was her own piecing together of how Gilead came to be, and having done that, informed her actions later in the show.  All the seemingly little things that she ignored, or accepted, things that her mother, the MD who performed abortions, would not ignore.  June finally faced all of it, including her own silent acceptance or at the very least passivity while they happened.  She put them out of her mind at the time, but now, is finally ready to look at reality, and in some ways, her complicity in her fate.

She waited before, she wasn't going to wait again.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Umbelina

[kittykat]

5 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I'm very curious about what will happen to June, given the pregnancy. Like, they can't do too much to her physically lest she lose the baby (last season I wondered why she didn't claim to have lost the baby she was never pregnant with after Aunt Lydia tased her), but obviously the punishment will be severe. They'd probably execute her if she weren't pregnant. At best they'd send her to the colonies, but they're not going to do that either if she's pregnant.

Yes, June was too conventional for her mother. Working a regular, non-revolutionary job, marriage, a child - all things that would bore her mother. She loved June but just didn't understand why she turned out to be so conventional, nor did she approve. It reminded me a little of an acquaintance I have who is a SAHM, at least for now while her kids are little, and her mother, a lawyer, is always giving her shit about it - "if your marriage doesn't work out, you need to be able to support yourself," etc. (Which is true, but like ... you've made your point, ma'am.) 

At this point she is on borrowed time.  Sure she is protected during the pregnancy (but not comfortable) and until the baby is weaned so maybe another year and half at best.  But then she will likely get sent to the colonies for "disobedience" or even executed since the dipshits will probably rationalize her running away as child endangerment so there will have to be another escape attempt at some point.

So those were the Eco families.  I was confused when I saw the wife with child in what I thought was Martha clothing.  I'm assuming this class of women are those who are fertile but were also legally married to men who swore fealty to Gilead and therefore weren't torn apart.  However the men aren't commanders or officers, basically a Gilead version of blue collar am I correct?

Not much to smile about this episode.  It was only 3/13 so the likelihood of June staying free was low.  On the other hand I hope this means we're getting scenes with Cherry Jones and Alexis Bledel as badass colony buddies.  

[ruby24]

Okay. I'm starting to see now that the crux of this show is about watching people suffer under a brutal regime over and over and over again. I thought one season of that was enough and that we'd see June get out and become part of the resistance or the underground and it'd become about fighting back, but it seems they can't let go of the premise. Even past the book.

Not sure how I feel about that. 

[AllyB]

I agree. I was under no illusion that June would make it to Canada at this point but I was ready for her escape to bring us to new areas of Gilead and a new role for her in the resistance. Going back to the Waterford's as a recaptured handmaid is just a dreary turn of events that I have little hope will be good storytelling. I wouldn't have minded her spending a few more episodes in their house before her escape but once she had escaped I was ready for the story to move forward.

[DesertCyclist]

6 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Eco husband

?

[AttackTurtle]

Fuck this show.  

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, kittykat said:

On the other hand I hope this means we're getting scenes with Cherry Jones and Alexis Bledel as badass colony buddies.  

That would be great, but I don't think it's likely. The slideshow of June's mother in the colonies was shown to June and Moira during "training" in the Red Center, three years before the show's present time. June's mother is probably no longer alive.

[poeticlicensed]

No striped dresses on the econowives..seriously bummed.

[Umbelina]

9 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

No striped dresses on the econowives..seriously bummed.

No real uniforms either, and another grayish color, it's the first time I've been unhappy with the costume choices on this show.  Also, I read or watched that apparently the Ecowives have been in scenes before, but since they don't interact directly with wives or handmaids, we just haven't noticed them much.  Odd choice.

I honestly don't mind having no stripes, but more gray?  WTH?  Also, it would have been easy to stripe at least the caps they wear, but I suppose the "teal" blue of the wives, the nearly gray green of the Martha's, and the bright red of the Handmaids could have been pretty jarring.

[chocolatine]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

No real uniforms either, and another grayish color, it's the first time I've been unhappy with the costume choices on this show.  Also, I read or watched that apparently the Ecowives have been in scenes before, but since they don't interact directly with wives or handmaids, we just haven't noticed them much.  Odd choice.

I honestly don't mind having no stripes, but more gray?  WTH?  Also, it would have been easy to stripe at least the caps they wear, but I suppose the "teal" blue of the wives, the nearly gray green of the Martha's, and the bright red of the Handmaids could have been pretty jarring.

Perhaps not using stripes was a deliberate choice, since a multicolor striped uniform would look too much like a gay pride symbol, something Gilead surely wouldn't condone. My guess is when the book was written in the early 80s, the rainbow flag wasn't as firmly associated with gay pride as it is today, so back then the striped uniform worked but it doesn't today.

I don't mind the gray since the econowives are deliberately trying not to draw attention to themselves. I'm sure all of them would rather wear gray than red.

[Umbelina]

24 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Perhaps not using stripes was a deliberate choice, since a multicolor striped uniform would look too much like a gay pride symbol, something Gilead surely wouldn't condone. My guess is when the book was written in the early 80s, the rainbow flag wasn't as firmly associated with gay pride as it is today, so back then the striped uniform worked but it doesn't today.

I don't mind the gray since the econowives are deliberately trying not to draw attention to themselves. I'm sure all of them would rather wear gray than red.

A dusky lavender would have worked though, red + blue, grayed down like the mostly gray and supposedly green of the Martha's.    Oh well...

or  or

These kinds of shades would at least show the connection between the colors.  Gray?  Blech...

I guess it works as a cheaper "wife" since the colors mostly look like drab versions of the Wive's clothing.  Dirty Teal and Gray.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Umbelina

[AnswersWanted]

1 hour ago, DesertCyclist said:

?

 

I was referencing the man who met June and took her into his home when the safe house plan fell apart, I believe his name is “Omar”. 

 

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Okay. I'm starting to see now that the crux of this show is about watching people suffer under a brutal regime over and over and over again. I thought one season of that was enough and that we'd see June get out and become part of the resistance or the underground and it'd become about fighting back, but it seems they can't let go of the premise. Even past the book.

Not sure how I feel about that. 

 

1 hour ago, AllyB said:

I agree. I was under no illusion that June would make it to Canada at this point but I was ready for her escape to bring us to new areas of Gilead and a new role for her in the resistance. Going back to the Waterford's as a recaptured handmaid is just a dreary turn of events that I have little hope will be good storytelling. I wouldn't have minded her spending a few more episodes in their house before her escape but once she had escaped I was ready for the story to move forward.

 

 I think the show is not ready yet to move June beyond her handmaid role, especially now that they’ve been able to further along her pregnancy. She is nearing, or is already, three months and I think that they are going to use her to expand on what goes on when a handmaid is pregnant because she is such a core character.

Even though Janine was pregnant in season one and was able to go through labor and delivery, we really didn’t see her interior life in the commander and wife’s  household while pregnant, so I think that they’re going to take the opportunity now to use June as that vessel and then again work on getting her out of there and somehow rescued or recovered by the resistance. I am also thinking this may re-involve Mexico somehow since that seemed to set off things in last season, but who knows.

 Also, my more pessimist side thinks that extending her stint as a handmaid also coincides with the show getting picked up for a third season, someone was clearly thinking ahead about that.

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

A dusky lavender would have worked though, red + blue, grayed down like the mostly gray and supposedly green of the Martha's.    Oh well...

or  or

These kinds of shades would at least show the connection between the colors.  Gray?  Blech...

Yes, it's very pretty. But making uniforms costs money, and I think we are to interpret that Gilead doesn't care enough about the econowives to spend money on them. So they get the knit caps (that each wife probably knitted herself) as their only marker, and otherwise just follow the directive to dress plainly and modestly.

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Yes, it's very pretty. But making uniforms costs money, and I think we are to interpret that Gilead doesn't care enough about the econowives to spend money on them. So they get the knit caps (that each wife probably knitted herself) as their only marker, and otherwise just follow the directive to dress plainly and modestly.

When I looked again I noticed it looked like a faded version of the Wive's outfits.  There is definitely grayish teal in their clothing.  That?  I can live with, but it does violate a core concept of all women being in uniforms.  No biggie now that I have my "poor man's wife" color comparison to the "rich man's wife's" deeper, purer teal.

8 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

 I think the show is not ready yet to move June beyond her handmaid role, especially now that they’ve been able to further along her pregnancy. She is nearing, or is already, three months and I think that they are going to use her to expand on what goes on when a handmaid is pregnant because she is such a core character.

Even though Janine was pregnant in season one and was able to go through labor and delivery, we really didn’t see her interior life in the commander and wife’s  household while pregnant, so I think that they’re going to take the opportunity now to use June as that vessel and then again work on getting her out of there and somehow rescued or recovered by the resistance. I am also thinking this may re-involve Mexico somehow since that seemed to set off things in last season, but who knows.

 Also, my more pessimist side thinks that extending her stint as a handmaid also coincides with the show getting picked up for a third season, someone was clearly thinking ahead about that.

I think you are correct, seeing June go through her pregnancy is important.

However, the writers talked about 10 seasons, which I think may have been an optimistic joke, last year after they were renewed.  Also the 3rd season renewal was announced long after season 2 was completed.

[chaifan]

Why wouldn't an econowife who is fertile not be conscripted into handmaid service?   Or I could see them being incentivized/bribed to bear more children that are given up for adoption by the elite class. 

I knew June wasn't going to make it to Canada by the end of the episode, but I was hoping she'd be on the run a little longer.  I was surprised a plane would land and take off so openly, without any other plausible purpose than smuggling people/things in/out of Gilead. 

I purposely didn't watch the preview, so I don't know what's coming next.  But since she was caught in the plane someone has to assume she was aided by resistance members.  So they know she knows something - people, places, plans, etc.  This is going to get interesting.  I sort of hope Nick is toast - he's served his purpose, and I'm bored with him.

[DesertCyclist]

53 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

I was referencing the man who met June and took her into his home when the safe house plan fell apart, I believe his name is “Omar”. 

Sorry, but what does Eco man mean?

[Umbelina]

38 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Why wouldn't an econowife who is fertile not be conscripted into handmaid service?   Or I could see them being incentivized/bribed to bear more children that are given up for adoption by the elite class. 

I knew June wasn't going to make it to Canada by the end of the episode, but I was hoping she'd be on the run a little longer.  I was surprised a plane would land and take off so openly, without any other plausible purpose than smuggling people/things in/out of Gilead. 

I purposely didn't watch the preview, so I don't know what's coming next.  But since she was caught in the plane someone has to assume she was aided by resistance members.  So they know she knows something - people, places, plans, etc.  This is going to get interesting.  I sort of hope Nick is toast - he's served his purpose, and I'm bored with him.

Right now, Gilead is pretending to be holy, and pro-family.  So they couldn't really wrench apart families that had committed no Gilead-sin.  They left them together as Eco-families.  Could that change?  Of course, on any pretext the rulers dream up, they have all the power now.  They would probably have to falsely or truthfully accuse them of a crime to do it, but what's to stop them now?  Or send the husband off to certain death in a war, and snatch the wife and child up that way, child to be adopted, wife to become a handmaid.

The specifics you mention are not in the preview, but yes, one would certainly assume that.  I doubt they will use torture on her while she's pregnant, but after giving birth?  I'd assume all options would be used.  Let's hope she escapes again before that happens.

26 minutes ago, DesertCyclist said:

Sorry, but what does Eco man mean?

Econofamily, Eco Wife, and Eco Man (but should be husband I'd think.)

[kittykat]

From what I understand by Gileadean standards, the Eco families are nuclear, fruitful families.  The men were Gilead loyalists (or pledged/pretended after takeover) and held regular jobs/are soldiers, basically your Gilead working class.  Their marriages, even if the wife was child-bearing, were allowed to remain intact if they were compliant of Gilead laws (no prior divorces, man and woman).  Women, widowed or unmarried, I believe qualify for handmaiden status.  And as Umbelina said above there's no reason why Gilead wouldn't just change the laws.  I wouldn't put it past them to grab Eco Wives if there was a sudden handmaiden shortage because Gilead logic!

For example, why weren't June and Luke an eco family?  Because Luke was married beforehand and since all divorces were nullified Luke is still married to his first wife by Gilead law.  June in Gilead eyes was his adultering mistress and slut (THEIR WORDS NOT MINE), who sired a bastard.  

[numbnut]

21 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

 June infuriated me from start to finish in this episode, seriously? Opening the map in view of everyone on the train?  She already knew that the safe house had been compromised from the get go and yet she might as well have been wearing a giant flashing, neon sign that said “here you go, drag me back into the abyss bitches, please and thank you.”

IKR? They tell her to keep a low profile in the apartment and the first thing she does is to go to the window. LOL!

The ending was intense but a lot of this ep felt like filler to me, especially when they show scenes from previous eps.

[littlemommy]

I got kind of unnecessarily hung up on wondering where all those econowives were going on the train. They can’t work and no had shopping bags or anything. Where the hell was everyone silently going?

[Miles]

Ah god damn it, show. I was expecting her to get captured the whole time, but at the end it seemed like they were already in the air and I finally started to relax.

It wasn't very smart of June to go to the airfield in the first place. She knew part of the operation was compromised and when her protectors didn't come back, she should have suspected all of it was. At that point she should have pulled a Moira and gone on foot.

I'm not even sure this was necessary plot-wise. It would have been very interesting to shift to them building a resistance in Canada and trying to get Hannah out.

By all rights June should now be chained in a dark room for the next 9 months, but I doubt that's going to happen, since it wouldn't be good TV. I guess we'll see.

[AnswersWanted]

 I know the news was just confirmed officially, but what I was getting at was that the show was probably hoping, fingers crossed, as most series do, that they would be picked up for a third season, at least, and so they were laying the groundwork for potential future seasons.

I’ve seen so many shows dare such an attempt, some are renewed and some aren’t and so you end up with that funny ending that is a series finale but frankly it was meant to jump start a new season, but definitely I could see the show preparing to further Gilead and the handmaids struggle and keeping June in the Waterford’s clutches at least for a time longer and putting her back into that world was part of the plan.

It does help extend the premise of June’s story as a captive and prisoner fighting and resisting to not have her will ultimately broken, whether that proves to be a wise choice in the long run will remain to be seen because it is a fairly desolate and dreary situation that she’s in and that could turn potential viewers off. Especially if it seems that June is just going to be tortured on a regular basis just like in season one without any relief. 

I also think that in the long run they will not allow June to leave without Hannah, even though she was going to leave in this episode because she felt as if she had no other choice, now that she’s been dragged back into the abyss I definitely see them setting up for some sort of all out Hail Mary, June goes all the way in and is determined to grab Hannah and leave at any and all cost even if that means they don’t get out of Gilead alive. 

 

1 hour ago, DesertCyclist said:

Sorry, but what does Eco man mean?

 Oh I’m sorry, I should have explained fully. The eco-people, or the econo people as Margaret named them in the book, are a sort of social class in Gilead. They are not high-ranking officials or military, but they also have managed to escape being labeled as criminals of the state, such as gender traitors or adulterers, etc; they are the middle, working, class as it were, they do most of the work in Gilead and often are the ones keeping the city running. 

[Umbelina]

26 minutes ago, littlemommy said:

I got kind of unnecessarily hung up on wondering where all those econowives were going on the train. They can’t work and no had shopping bags or anything. Where the hell was everyone silently going?

I just figured they were all going home from church.  While watched and guarded, they seem to have a fair amount of autonomy, similar to the regular Wives really.  They could be visiting friends after church or whatever. 

14 minutes ago, Miles said:

 

It wasn't very smart of June to go to the airfield in the first place. She knew part of the operation was compromised and when her protectors didn't come back, she should have suspected all of it was. At that point she should have pulled a Moira and gone on foot.

I'm not even sure this was necessary plot-wise. It would have been very interesting to shift to them building a resistance in Canada and trying to get Hannah out.

 

What other choice did June have?  Sit in the apartment and wait for them to come get her?  They safe-house part was compromised, but she had no details, it was worth it to hope that the airfield part was not.  After all, one Resistance hand doesn't seem to know much about what the others are doing, for exactly that reason.

[Umbelina]

She was less conspicuous doing what the other wives were doing.  If you mean get to Canada by walking?  Moira had a car as I remember, at least for part of the trip, and Nick pointed out how many more guards there are now, and that even with a car, and his gun, June wouldn't make it.

I agree it was either one or the other, but not that the airfield plan was stupid.  She could barely make it to that airfield undetected, and it was only a few miles away.  Canada over 300 miles away and is heavily guarded both on the borders and in the forests, towns, streets along the way.  They are also on high alert because June is escaping with a Big Wig's fetus.

She tried to make it to Canada once before in a car and on foot.  I'd have opted for the airplane as well.

I still wonder if the "driver" was followed?  Either way, it was a put your money on the pass line moment for her.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Umbelina

[AnswersWanted]

59 minutes ago, numbnut said:

IKR? They tell her to keep a low profile in the apartment and the first thing she does is to go to the window. LOL!

The ending was intense but a lot of this ep felt like filler to me, especially when they show scenes from previous eps.

 

Heh,  that was a face palm moment for me when I saw her do that, especially since there were so many armed guards literally looking up and around at the apartments. Blessed be the curtain peekers I guess.

 I too felt like they tried to put together too many random pieces of the show into one episode,

I would’ve preferred either the episode focus totally on June’s run for freedom and failed attempt or show a whole episode dedicated to the daily life and existence of Luke, Moira and the cereal queen.

I wanted to see Moira interacting with some of her coworkers, really seeing her at her best helping people who have also escaped from Gilead but also see how that ties into her being reminded of her own struggle and pain and the fact that she’s not dealing with it very well still, understandly so. 

And what is Luke up to? Let’s see what he is doing, is he still hard at work looking for June, has he found out anything about their baby girl, Hannah?  I actually think it would be a really exciting idea if Luke is arranging to have Hannah extradited and June, obviously being in the dark, has no idea and so she goes to try to save Hannah herself and in doing so she is then able to be caught up in the rescue of Hannah and lo and behold, Luke has both his girls back with him. 

I just think they made a mistake showing two very different storylines in the same episode and there just wasn’t enough time to cover both adequately, in my opinion.

 

59 minutes ago, littlemommy said:

I got kind of unnecessarily hung up on wondering where all those econowives were going on the train. They can’t work and no had shopping bags or anything. Where the hell was everyone silently going?

 

A thought I had briefly was that perhaps they were traveling to different compounds? Maybe they, like the wives, have social circles or social events, church based of course, that they attend and then go home afterwards. But what a dull life they must live and lead but I guess they probably see it as they’re alive and they aren’t handmaids and they’re not wasting away in the colonies so does life in Gilead really get much better than that? How depressing a reality.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

Why wouldn't an econowife who is fertile not be conscripted into handmaid service?

I think June herself explained it perfectly in her voiceover as she was entering the apartment building:

Quote

So this is where the econo-people live. It’s where I would live if I weren’t an adulteress, if I’d gone to the right kind of church, if I’d played my cards right - if I’d known I was supposed to be playing cards.

Gilead made adultery - i.e. divorce and remarriage - a crime, so June was retroactively classified as a criminal. Omar's wife hasn't (yet) done anything that Gilead considers a crime, so she was allowed to stay with her husband and child. I think the show really stressed the parallels between June's and Omar's families by having both families be interracial and having children around the same age. The only apparent difference was that Omar hadn't been married before and Luke had.

I do wonder about the "right kind of church" part. Was Omar openly Muslim pre-Gilead and was forced to publicly denounce Islam if he wanted to keep his family together, or had he been presciently keeping his faith on the DL his whole life? Last season we saw Jews and Muslims hung up on the Wall, so I was under the impression that all of them who didn't manage to escape were killed, but maybe it was just those who refused to denounce their faith and/or were caught practicing.

Edited May 3, 2018 by chocolatine

[AnswersWanted]

3 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I think June herself explained it perfectly in her voiceover as she was entering the apartment building:

Gilead made adultery - i.e. divorce and remarriage - a crime, so June was retroactively classified as a criminal. Omar's wife hasn't (yet) done anything that Gilead considers a crime, so she was allowed to stay with her husband and child. I think the show really stressed the parallels between June's and Omar's families by having both families be interracial and having children around the same age. The only apparent difference was that Omar hadn't been married before and Luke had.

I do wonder about the "right kind of church" part. Was Omar openly Muslim pre-Gilead and was forced to publicly denounce Islam if he wanted to keep his family together, or had he been presciently keeping his faith on the DL his whole life? Last season we saw Jews and Muslims hung up on the Wall, so I was under the impression that all of them who didn't manage to escape were killed, but maybe it was just those who refused to denounce their faith and/or were caught practicing.

 

 I think that those killed were most likely actively resisting the Gilead regime, they were not going to conform, they were not going to renounce their respective religions, they would rather die then become an acceptable member of Gilead society and therefore their fates were sealed. 

 Since Omar had a little boy and his wife to think about, I absolutely could see him being one who did agree to turn away from his true belief and tried to assimilate into Gilead for the sake of his family and their safety.

And Gilead I am sure was more than happy to find those who were willing to go along with the plan, because they need the econo people, they are the ones keeping the city running and the officials certainly don’t want the duty of cleaning and building and making things and the military is busy at war so they needed more eco-people than they needed dead bodies hanging. 

[Miles]

48 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She was less conspicuous doing what the other wives were doing.  If you mean get to Canada by walking?  Moira had a car as I remember, at least for part of the trip, and Nick pointed out how many more guards there are now, and that even with a car, and his gun, June wouldn't make it.

For a very short time she had a car, yes, but she ditched that pretty much immediatly.

Nick pointed that out two months ago. It had calmed down to normal proportions by that point, to the point where the guards on the train didn't even recognise June, even though had probably been part of the search for her two months prior.

 

48 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Canada over 300 miles away and is heavily guarded both on the borders and in the forests, towns, streets along the way. 

Google maps says it's 214 miles (from the Boston Globe, quite a bit less from the outskirts where she traveled by train) and walking it would take 72 hours. Now, granted, she'd have to take side streets, access roads through the woods, maybe only walk at night, etc. That means it would take longer, but she could easily make it, without even needing to get food. June isn't exactly a twig, her body can run on ketones for a while.

She might have even been able to take the train some of the distance. I'm not sure how far the econo wifes can travel, but June would know.

 

48 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

is heavily guarded both on the borders and in the forests, towns, streets along the way.

It can't be that heavily guarded. There is way too much space. Plus, again, Moira made it.

 

48 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She tried to make it to Canada once before in a car and on foot.  I'd have opted for the airplane as well.

When? In the beginning of the show they were going to meet a guy who would have smuggeled them over the border. She never tried it on her own.

In a vacuum I would have also opted for the airplane, but not with all the signs pointing to it being compromised.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Miles

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I finally realized that June's newspaper clippings project upstairs at the Globe was her own piecing together of how Gilead came to be, and having done that, informed her actions later in the show.  All the seemingly little things that she ignored, or accepted, things that her mother, the MD who performed abortions, would not ignore.  June finally faced all of it, including her own silent acceptance or at the very least passivity while they happened.  She put them out of her mind at the time, but now, is finally ready to look at reality, and in some ways, her complicity in her fate.

She waited before, she wasn't going to wait again.

Beautifully said

My heart broke when she pleaded with the guy to take him with her. I didn't know what fate awaited her. Having found out she was caputred after all, that scene breaks my heart even more.

If only she knew what was in her near future, she would have acted very differently. The same goes for pre Gilead. Actions, passive or no have consequences.