S07.E18: One Life To Live

[SPLAIN]

Quote

]I wonder how much she [Kim] is stepping in to help Tyler with this mess he has on his hands.

Tyler's business is his business, not Kim's. The fact he runs to his mother and tells her about his private life, irks me.  I get the producers prod the cast members to talk about what is happening. But the one thing people should not do is talk about their relationship problems to friends and family, unless they plan on leaving the relationship. When you tell people the problems you are having with your partner, you are creating enemies for your partner. When you decide to stay with your shitty partner, after trash-talking about them to family and friends, you will look like a fool for putting up with the problems you were complaining about in the first place.

I know in Teen Mom land this sort of thing happens many times over and it is likely pointless since Tyler's problems are being aired on television.

16 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Since that show was taped what's Cate's status now?

She is not following the orders of the professionals. One of those was to stay off social media. She hasn't. I am sure she justifies it by saying it is her job and it is her passion to remove the stigma of mental health.

Edited April 12, 2018 by SPLAIN
Stupid quote box issues

[lezlers]

7 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I trained four children before they were two.  It's called the M & M training camp.  One for #1 and 2 for #2.  The kids just loved it.

They never got much candy so those m &, j's were a huge treat.

I was a stay at home mom and knew when they were interested.  It took a couple of weeks with no diapers but fancy little panties for the girls and cartoon underwear for the boys.

One accident in real underwear made them believers!

If I had a dollar for every person who told me to just give her candy as an incentive I could quit my job and stay home with her.  Then maybe she'd be trained.  You honestly don't think I've tried that??  Lord.   Some kids just aren't ready until later.  There's nothing wrong with it.  She'll be trained when she's ready.

6 hours ago, Chickabiddy said:

I just want to chime in (again) to be clear that I think Nova is delayed for her age only because her uneducated and poorly-raised parents are not giving her enough attention, physical stimulation, mental stimulation, or emotional support. On the C and T thread, there were comments about her physical size at well. I have no doubts that she is malnourished, ie, being fed, but not getting the proper nutrients to allow her to thrive both physically and mentally.  I firmly believe that she would be a completely different person if she were being raised with Carly by B and T. 

Look at the way Cat and Tyler talk to her. They talk to her in this ridiculous baby talk and only repeat partial sentences and phrases back to her. We never see them having a conversation with her or asking her about anything in an effort to get her to share her own narrative and practice storytelling.   "Nova, let's go to the park and the play. What do you like to do most at the park, Nova? Tell us what you see a the park?" Talking to her in more complete sentences and encouraging a response allows her to practice and develop language skills. Look at the difference between how Gary and Kristina interact with their children and C and T. Also, there are tons of books all over G and K's house, and only dog poop, laundry, and  dirty dishes around C and T's 

As for the potty training issue, I think with Nova her delay, coupled with everything else, is a sign  that her problems stem from C and T's shitty parenting. Who gives a toddler liquid right before a nap or bedtime?  I wrote previously, potty training is  muscle- mind connection thing. Either the switch is flipped or it isn't. If it comes a little later for some kids, this alone is not a bad reflection on the child or the parents. Likewise, if a child potty trains early, it is not a reflection on your superior kid or parenting skills. I mean, really, later in life when people are collecting their Nobel Prizes or winning a gold medal at the Olympics, do we really think the issue of of how and when they potty trained even comes up in the conversation? Give me a break.  

I love this post SO HARD.  You'd think there was a cash prize for early potty training with how some parents brag about it.  LOL.

[FairyDusted]

On 4/11/2018 at 11:00 AM, mamadrama said:

Re: Nova's pitiful little "Mommy will pick me up" from daycare...

Our youngest son died unexpectedly in 2010. One week after HIS funeral, my mother-in-law died. (Cancer, and she'd been in Hospice, so even though she was only 50 it wasn't an unexpected death.) My husband is from England and his whole family is over there. They're also super weird, unlikable, and general pains in the asses. Basically his father told him that they only wanted HIM to come for the funeral, that our surviving son and I could just stay at home because we weren't "real" family. Although I was paying for our travel arrangements and we were going to stay in a hotel so they didn't even have to see us if they didn't want to (I just wanted to be there for my husband), they put up such a fuss that we didn't go. So there was my husband, having just buried his youngest 2 weeks earlier, getting ready to get on a plane to leave me and his other child to fly across the ocean. Some of you all know me in "real" life and, if you do, you know what a freakishly close relationship my husband and I have with each other. Even my kids say, "Daddy wouldn't even know how to breathe without Mommy around" but it kind of goes both ways. I am sure we need therapy for it but, oh well, one thing at a time. Now I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened but my mother says that she went out to start the car to take him to the airport and that my husband kind of hesitated in the doorway. At that point our 3-year-old went up to him and said, "Daddy, do you promise you'll be back?" She says that my husband broke down into tears and she was like, "You want me to get your suitcase back out of the car for you?" And she did. He missed his mom's funeral because he could not stand to leave us; he could NOT be away from his kid or from me-not at that time. We've been paying for that with his family ever since. (Seriously. After a bunch of name calling and other shenanigans, including a bill for $10,000 that my father-in-law sent my husband for not being "the son he wanted", we had to cut them off completely. Haven't spoken in almost 8 years.) 

I totally understood why my husband didn't go and I fully supported him. If it had been switched, I would've done the same. In Cate's shoes, Nova would've broken my heart. No way could I have left after that scene in the car. No way. Hell, I sometimes have trouble telling my kids goodbye when they leave for school in the morning. I've lost a child and I have a bit of separation anxiety with my others. I'm a little surprised that Cate, who has unresolved issues or giving up Carly, doesn't have at least a little of the same. I think it just goes to show how emotionally unattached she can be to Nova. 

Ok. I needed a good cry. I'm so sorry for everything. I can certainly relate to some of that. (((HUGS)))

On 4/11/2018 at 11:43 AM, eskimo said:

I actually believe Cate has anxiety and depression, I don't think she's making it up at all.  I do think she's expecting a miracle fix without work once she gets home, though.  I also wonder, consciously or subconsciously, if she really kind of likes leaving Tyler on his own to remodel the new house, run the business, care for Nova, and all the other things that go into running a household.  Underneath it all maybe she's thinking 'fuck you for making me give up Carly, now you suffer'.  Plus all those times he shot his fat mouth off about B&T and caused problems there.  She didn't stand up to him during that time though, and it was a time Cate should have stood up to Tyler.  And now is a time Tyler needs to stand up to Cate.  They just do not deal with conflicts between them, they tiptoe around it and then piss each other off in other ways.  Very passive-aggressive.  I'm not saying that's what's happening, just a thought I had.  Sucks for Nova though, because she's the one who will pay the most.  And Cate needs to think about how it's going to feel when they split and Nova wants to be with Tyler over her because their bond will be stronger.  By then there will be no Arizona rehab money left.  If they try for another child, they are absolutely nuts.  

There was no reason at all not to do out patient. Some are even 5 days all say. She has problems for sure but my sympathy is thin!

On 4/11/2018 at 11:52 AM, GreatKazu said:

Imagine someone saying that to Cate?

Fuck No! 

On 4/11/2018 at 1:04 PM, hoosiermom said:

Mamadrama: I am so sorry for your loss. I can’t even begin to imagine the pain you have endured.

And this^^^^

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Don't you worry about a thing. One day she'll get it, and that will be that. Since she'll be a little older, you'll be far less likely to deal with accidents, too. Once my son was fully trained (at 3.5), it was smooth sailing. Our neighbors' daughter was fully trained at 4. Some kids just like to take their time. When she's ready, she'll get there, and quick!

I agree! When my kid was three we were going out to lunch (OK, McDonalds or the local pizza joint, but still...), hanging out at the park, going to the library, all kinds of stuff. We were always chattering--by three, he could hold a conversation just fine. Not a very sophisticated conversation, we weren't talking about our Oscar picks or what we thought of the situation in the Middle East, but real talking, with sentences and a cohesive theme. Tyler and Cate still speak to Nova like she's an infant. I've never seen either one of them read to her.

And I concur wholeheartedly with every word of your last paragraph. Same with pacifiers. No kid goes off to college with a binkie. People need to chill! It really is like flipping a switch--once they know how, they know how! (Its actually really great to see, something I enjoyed a lot when my son was little, each accomplishment, each milestone reached, was so satisfying and fun to watch!)

You're my fave post!  I started cracking up envisioning conversations about Oscar picks and the middle east with my three year old.  Hahaha!  Thanks for the potty training encouragement too.  This thread is making me feel a lot better.  It's hard not getting a complex about it sometimes.

[LIMOM]

8 hours ago, lezlers said:

I totally gasped at that, too.   Even if you're not a holiday person, Christmas with small kids is important.  It's one of the most joyful parts of parenting!  The fact that she'd voluntarily miss Christmas with her precious daughter but would leave for the reunion speaks volumes about her priorities.

She is obligated to go to the reunion or risks being fired would be my guess.

Even though, she does not give a shit about her home life (because of her mental issues), she is still cognizant to the fact that she needs that job. 

I wonder if she can even stand watching herself operate on her TV. She has to realize that she is failing her daughter.

I miss Farrah.

[druzy]

35 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

She is obligated to go to the reunion or risks being fired would be my guess.

Even though, she does not give a shit about her home life (because of her mental issues), she is still cognizant to the fact that she needs that job. 

I wonder if she can even stand watching herself operate on her TV. She has to realize that she is failing her daughter.

I miss Farrah.

Amber didn't go to the reunion she Skyped her segment. Cate could have done the same.

[lezlers]

2 hours ago, LIMOM said:

She is obligated to go to the reunion or risks being fired would be my guess.

Even though, she does not give a shit about her home life (because of her mental issues), she is still cognizant to the fact that she needs that job. 

I wonder if she can even stand watching herself operate on her TV. She has to realize that she is failing her daughter.

I miss Farrah.

So I watched the clip that was posted above and Cate appears to be self aware and cognizant of the pain she's putting Nova through, but then I remembered that was filmed BFORE she left the second time, so.....NOPE.  

[LIMOM]

54 minutes ago, druzy said:

Amber didn't go to the reunion she Skyped her segment. Cate could have done the same.

Was it when she was incarcerated? 

1 minute ago, lezlers said:

So I watched the clip that was posted above and Cate appears to be self aware and cognizant of the pain she's putting Nova through, but then I remembered that was filmed BFORE she left the second time, so.....NOPE.  

She can’t help herself. She is stuck as a sixteen years old, imo.

Whatever happened to her and Tyler getting an education? That is what she needs. To meet people and perhaps realizing that her life is kinda good and boost her confidence.

Enough with the therapeutic vacation already, start doing.

between her and Ryan, this show stresses the shit out of me.

[druzy]

1 minute ago, LIMOM said:

Was it when she was incarcerated? 

She can’t help herself. She is stuck as a sixteen years old, imo.

Whatever happened to her and Tyler getting an education? That is what she needs. To meet people and perhaps realizing that her life is kinda good and boost her confidence.

Enough with the therapeutic vacation already, start doing.

between her and Ryan, this show stresses the shit out of me.

Amber Skyped her reunion segment for the upcoming Reunion that airs Monday, April 16, 2018. I think Amber was approximately 6-7 months pregnant when the Reunion was filmed. She said her doctor didn't want her to travel.

I agree enough with the therapeutic vacation already!

[Caracoa1]

Cate and Amber are not educated and will never be able to maintain their current lifestyles once the show ends.  Real life is going to hurt when they are 30 yrs old and can't get a job...a job for minimum wage may be unattainable for these 2 girls.

[guilfoyleatpp]

11 hours ago, rafibomb said:

Don't worry, you'll get there! My son isn't delayed at all, and he didn't successfully potty-train until he was about 2 weeks shy of his 4th birthday. We were starting to worry we'd have to send him to kindergarten in diapers. But when he finally decided he was ready, it just clicked, and he potty-trained in a weekend. Most of our efforts prior to that were just an exercise in futility, IMO. 

I think Carly seems average for her age. Ooops, I mean Nova. NOVA seems average for her age. I'm not entirely sure what it is, but some kids are precocious and some are just regular. There's been a big move toward not pushing potty training. With my kiddo, I tried charts, bribery (kindle AND candy), those cute little stickers they can aim at in the toilet, he just didn't want to so he didn't. I'm not going to get into a contest of wills with a threenager. It's his body. No one goes to high school without being potty trained, so when my dad would give "helpful" comments, I'd offer to let him and my mom take the little back to their house so HE could train him. My dad never changed a fucking diaper in his life, so he STFU with a quickness. I remember lamenting to his pediatrician how I'd read some parents put their kid on the toilet starting at 6 months old so they could get used to it. She replied with an ominous tone "sometimes that backfires."

Now, do I think that Tyler is one of the CTFD parent types? He could be. I see Tyler blustering about bullshit and making empty threats that he has no intention of following through on, like a lot of young men who want to exert control over anything because they think they should. Cate isn't engaged enough emotionally to be any "type" of parent except maybe "absent."

Edited April 13, 2018 by guilfoyleatpp

[lilmarysunshine]

15 hours ago, lezlers said:

Just want to reiterate that just because a child isn't potty trained by the time they're three doesn't mean they're delayed or on the spectrum, which has been implied here.  Some kids are just ready later than others.  That doesn't mean something is wrong with the child or the parents (yes, I know I'm projecting.  It's just frustrating to read some of these comments when I have done EVERYTHING to train my three year old and have gotten nowhere.  She's neuro-typical and not at all delayed.  Still, potty training = brick wall. It may or may not be slowly driving me insane.  I think I need to hit the spa in Tucson.)

I have 3 kids.  Only one was trained by 3 and just barely.  The other two were about 3.5. They're all teenagers now and totally normal.  Well, one of them is. lol   I think part of it is maybe diapers are just better than when I was a baby (I'm old) and so it doesn't bother kids as much as it bothered my generation to sit in an uncomfortably wet diaper.  (Just in response to "In my day, kids were trained by 2" comments.)

I really hate the mommy wars. Everything in life is not a competition!

I think Amber is setting up a move to California with all of her moaning about Leah not wanting to spend time with her.  This way it will be Leah and Gary's fault when she abandons Leah, not that she's a crappy mother.

[Kalamityjayne]

19 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Somehow, Cate resents Nova and as a result neglects her.

I also think that Cate is truly depressed and one of the less known sign of depression is irritable mood.

It  obvious That she is overwhelmed by her home situation because of her mental illness.

I don’t think anyone on here denies that she’s depressed. And though most have carefully trod the line to not speak against a persons mental issues, when we heard the rehab center who stood to make $50knat least off another stay on her suggest outpatient care and she not even try a few days of it, all gloves came off.  It became clear this is not treatment it is escapism and how is that healthy and empowering? 

18 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

Tyler needs to stop leading Cate on and file for divorce now.  Let her deal with her biggest fear (losing Tyler) now while MTV is footing the bill.. newsflash Cate...in the real world people have to pay for their "rehab".  Being that she is such a public figure, Sierra Tuscon can see she is not following her after care protocol....they probably already have a room booked under her name for this Summer.

Agreed. If it’s a sham, or if he’s done they’re both better off ending it now.

13 hours ago, Snarky McSnarky said:

Carly House is in Fantasyland, right next door to Amber's sober living facility.

Ew. Can I declare it a slum already  based on the two business owners?

13 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

A hot guy nanny, right?

Many of you have made great points about Catelynn.  Narcissism, insecurity, laziness, manipulative, attention-seeking, lack of motherly instincts, BPD, the list goes on and on.

I have mentioned a type of Munchausen-type personality. Catelynn seems to be a self-destructive person and her actions are deliberate and could be a habit. She is trying to drive Tyler away and to reject her. The way she tries to accomplish this is by sabotaging the relationship through her behavior. Catelynn is manipulative, as others have pointed out. That can take an emotional toll on the person(s) who is on the receiving end. Those people are Nova and Tyler

.

Ooooh! I think you’re onto something. She wasn’t cared for as a child and that need is manifesting in a way that gets her attention and care.  She gets that at rehab so feigns the need to be there like a typical muncahusen case would feign a physical symptom. 

 

11 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Right. She can HAVE mental health issues and still be a fucking horrible person separate from those issues. I can give her a pass only up to a certain point. She's an adult who is hiding away at a resort and not taking appropriate steps to live a real life. It's ridiculous at this point. 

 

I don't think anyone has implied that delayed potty training means a kid is on the spectrum. Bowel control issues ARE a symptom of ASD, but all kids (neurotypical or not) do things in their own time. When I shared about my daughter being on the spectrum, it wasn't to say that Nova definitely was. It was just ONE example of a kid who's not ready to be potty trained when her peers were. 

Right. She’s depressed but she’s also a selfish asshole.  We can still pass judgement and dislike that part of her. It’s not a free pass to be a shitty person Catelynn. Not when so many deal with much more and aren’t selfish andnunfeeling toward their kids.

10 hours ago, druzy said:

Maybe Nova was trying to tell her mother she was scared to go to school. Maybe one of the teachers hit her or worse. It happens all of the time at daycares and schools.

As a mother wouldn't Cate be concerned about the safety of her child? I guess not.

I think you might be playing devils advocate because it really seemed like her freak out happened when she sensed her mom wasn’t goinf to pick her up which she likely connected with her mom leaving or just triggered her abandonment fear. 

 

BUT let’s say that is the case. 

Catelynn is too self involved to realize maybe Nova is damaged by her leaving, shouldn’t she at least be worried why she’s aftaid to go to preschool? That wasn’t a tantrum, that was a serious emotional cry for help that should give  any mother pause and reevaluate all the surrounding circumstances.

 

boo Catelynn. You’ve failed her so thoroughly.!

[Calm81]

12 hours ago, teapot said:

mine thought he was thirty-five!  he astutely informed me that Kermit the Frog *lived* on Sesame Street and *worked* on the Muppet Show.  Blessing & a curse that he had a SAHM that talked to him like he was her BFF b/c she had no one else to talk to!!!

Awwwwwe. And THESE are the moments you will think about when you’re 80 years old sitting in your rocker inside a very quiet home reminiscing of the time when your children were young. Cates going to regret some shit. Your son is an absolute DOLL and I’d love to share a slice and talk Kermit the frog with him. ??

[Pepper Mostly]

8 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

I really hate the mommy wars. Everything in life is not a competition!

I think Amber is setting up a move to California with all of her moaning about Leah not wanting to spend time with her.  This way it will be Leah and Gary's fault when she abandons Leah, not that she's a crappy mother.

I used to hang out on misc.kids on Usenet in the 90's. Talk about mommy wars! So nostalgic. Not.

Amber is totally preparing to flee to Cali. She says she's going to stay in Indiana until Leah graduates high school? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Wait till she finds out that's almost 10 more years! She'll go out "for a visit" and never come back.

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I used to hang out on misc.kids on Usenet in the 90's. Talk about mommy wars! So nostalgic. Not.

Amber is totally preparing to flee to Cali. She says she's going to stay in Indiana until Leah graduates high school? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Wait till she finds out that's almost 10 more years! She'll go out "for a visit" and never come back.

Mommy wars are absolutely INSANE now.  I mean, some women legit think you're HURTING your child if you don't nurse, if you sleep train, if you vaccinate, hell even if you use a stroller ("I don't push my baby AWAY from me.")  It's straight up ridiculous.  I really did become a mother in the wrong generation.  I would've been an AWESOME seventies mom.  

[CofCinci]

23 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Amber is totally preparing to flee to Cali. She says she's going to stay in Indiana until Leah graduates high school? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Wait till she finds out that's almost 10 more years! She'll go out "for a visit" and never come back.

Bitch doesn’t even know what grade her kid is in!  As if she is sooooo invested in her child’s education that she will stay in Indiana for another decade. Dude’s mom has a Malibu beach house. Anyone who would want to care for the baby (his mother, sisters, etc) are in California.  Her lease is up soon and she’s leaving Indiana ASAP. Watch - first she’ll say she plans to keep BewBew “all” summer but we all know it will just be two weeks. 

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Bitch doesn’t even know what grade her kid is in!  As if she is sooooo invested in her child’s education that she will stay in Indiana for another decade. Dude’s mom has a Malibu beach house. Anyone who would want to care for the baby (his mother, sisters, etc) are in California.  Her lease is up soon and she’s leaving Indiana ASAP. Watch - first she’ll say she plans to keep BewBew “all” summer but we all know it will just be two weeks. 

She won't move to CA because of Leah despite easily being able to afford to fly Leah back and forth for school vacations, yet she voluntarily put herself in "jel" for 2 years where Leah couldn't see her at all "for boo boo."  Yup, makes sense.

[LIMOM]

18 hours ago, druzy said:

Maybe Nova was trying to tell her mother she was scared to go to school. Maybe one of the teachers hit her or worse. It happens all of the time at daycares and schools.

As a mother wouldn't Cate be concerned about the safety of her child? I guess not.

This show is just too fucking dark. 

I hope they have cameras all over the school.

[Kaia40]

3 minutes ago, lezlers said:

jel

“Jel” I’m dying!!! lol

[Kaia40]

7 hours ago, Kalamityjayne said:

I don’t think anyone on here denies that she’s depressed. And though most have carefully trod the line to not speak against a persons mental issues, when we heard the rehab center who stood to make $50knat least off another stay on her suggest outpatient care and she not even try a few days of it, all gloves came off.  It became clear this is not treatment it is escapism and how is that healthy and empowering? 

Agreed. If it’s a sham, or if he’s done they’re both better off ending it now.

Ew. Can I declare it a slum already  based on the two business owners?

Ooooh! I think you’re onto something. She wasn’t cared for as a child and that need is manifesting in a way that gets her attention and care.  She gets that at rehab so feigns the need to be there like a typical muncahusen case would feign a physical symptom. 

 

Right. She’s depressed but she’s also a selfish asshole.  We can still pass judgement and dislike that part of her. It’s not a free pass to be a shitty person Catelynn. Not when so many deal with much more and aren’t selfish andnunfeeling toward their kids.

I think you might be playing devils advocate because it really seemed like her freak out happened when she sensed her mom wasn’t goinf to pick her up which she likely connected with her mom leaving or just triggered her abandonment fear. 

 

BUT let’s say that is the case. 

Catelynn is too self involved to realize maybe Nova is damaged by her leaving, shouldn’t she at least be worried why she’s aftaid to go to preschool? That wasn’t a tantrum, that was a serious emotional cry for help that should give  any mother pause and reevaluate all the surrounding circumstances.

 

boo Catelynn. You’ve failed her so thoroughly.!

Yes! You’re right! That was not a tantrum but an emotional cry. It broke my heart and it’s not even my daughter! Any good mother would say, I can’t leave my little girl for another 6 weeks and would worry about the impact on this poor child.  Instead this loser says “she’ll manage.” This also has nothing to do with the miscarriage.  She’s been running to the “spa” in Arizona for two years (way before the miscarriage) because she’s lazy and doesn’t want to deal with being a wife and mother.  What a loser!  

[Caracoa1]

Cate doesn't want to be a mother...she just thrives on the attention she receives being pregnant and shortly after with a newborn for MTV to film and magazine cover stories...

[LIMOM]

8 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

Cate doesn't want to be a mother...she just thrives on the attention she receives being pregnant and shortly after with a newborn for MTV to film and magazine cover stories...

In her defense, she was not mothered herself. I want to give her a break but she has to snap back for Nova.

[SPLAIN]

1 hour ago, Kaia40 said:

Yes! You’re right! That was not a tantrum but an emotional cry. It broke my heart and it’s not even my daughter! Any good mother would say, I can’t leave my little girl for another 6 weeks and would worry about the impact on this poor child.  Instead this loser says “she’ll manage.” This also has nothing to do with the miscarriage.  She’s been running to the “spa” in Arizona for two years (way before the miscarriage) because she’s lazy and doesn’t want to deal with being a wife and mother.  What a loser!  

I concur. It is not about a miscarriage because as you mentioned, Catelynn has been going through this for several years now. There is always something that triggers her into these meltdowns.  Meltdowns that I personally feel are manipulative and self-serving. 

This goes way back. We watched Catelynn have a tantrum when Kim didn't want Catelynn to move in back in the early days. I think someone here pointed that out on this thread. Catelynn was rattled and worried any time Tyler informed her he was questioning whether they should marry. They go on that Couples Therapy show where he again mentions wanting to put off the wedding and what does Catelynn do? She curls up on the bed and goes into hysterics. She was in misery when Tyler informs her he will be going out to a club with friends. Catelynn had fears about other girls. The list goes on and on and I am sure others remember many more of these outbursts and breakdowns from over the seasons. One thing they all have in common is Catelynn coming off as if she is in fear of being abandoned by Tyler. The problem is, her threats and manipulation got him to marry her and now, it is driving him away.

26 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

In her defense, she was not mothered herself. I want to give her a break but she has to snap back for Nova.

I want to touch upon this. It is not directed at you.

Many people were not raised by a mother and/or father for various reasons whether it is due to addiction, abandonment, illness, being in jail or prison, or even death. I know a few members here on this board lost a parent under different circumstances. People learn to adjust and thrive. Those who had issues sought out help.

Catelynn flip-flops about that whole thing with her mother. She will use it to throw it in April's face, directly or indirectly. She will use it to remind the world of her mental illness via this show. She then takes to her Twitter to let the world know she would not change anything about her upbringing. Frankly, I am over it and it is not fair to April. Her mother has done what she needed to do to get her shit together. April has done Catelynn wrong, no doubt about it, however, she worked hard to change her life around. Her daughter forgave her. From that point on, it is totally unfair for her to constantly throw out what April did or didn't do and use it as a crutch.

Whatever the case may be there with her childhood, she has had more opportunities to deal with that than the three people I know who suffered from similar circumstances and particularly someone who has had it worse. I personally know a young boy who watched his mother be killed in front of him. He is suffering from depression, but one thing he is not doing is, he is not reminding people that he is a victim of child abuse and domestic violence. He is not blaming. He is not using his traumatic childhood to excuse certain behaviors. He is in therapy to address his behaviors and depression. I would love for him to be able to travel to a facility for long-term help. Many people would appreciate to have the kind of help that is available at Catelynn's feet. She is not receptive to the help offered to her because for her to get better means she has to do something different in her daily life. She has to have a structured environment where she needs to be productive and actually handle day to day life. It is easier for her to curl up in a ball, cry, and have Tyler be her safety net. It also keeps Tyler from leaving her because she has managed to get him to feel all that is happening is somehow his fault.

/rant over/

Edited April 13, 2018 by SPLAIN

[LIMOM]

10 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

I concur. It is not about a miscarriage because as you mentioned, Catelynn has been going through this for several years now. There is always something that triggers her into these meltdowns.  Meltdowns that I personally feel are manipulative and self-serving. 

This goes way back. We watched Catelynn have a tantrum when Kim didn't want Catelynn to move in back in the early days. I think someone here pointed that out on this thread. Catelynn was rattled and worried any time Tyler informed her he was questioning whether they should marry. They go on that Couples Therapy show where he again mentions wanting to put off the wedding and what does Catelynn do? She curls up on the bed and goes into hysterics. She was in misery when Tyler informs her he will be going out to a club with friends. Catelynn had fears about other girls. The list goes on and on and I am sure others remember many more of these outbursts and breakdowns from over the seasons. One thing they all have in common is Catelynn coming off as if she is in fear of being abandoned by Tyler. The problem is, her threats and manipulation got him to marry her and now, it is driving him away.

Many people were not raised by a mother and/or father for various reasons whether it is due to addiction, abandonment, illness, being in jail or prison, or even death. I know a few members here on this board lost a parent under different circumstances. People learn to adjust and thrive. Those who had issues sought out help.

Catelynn flip-flops about that whole thing with her mother. She will use it to throw it in April's face, directly or indirectly. She will use it to remind the world of her mental illness via this show. She then takes to her Twitter to let the world know she would not change anything about her upbringing. Frankly, I am over it and it is not fair to April. Her mother has done what she needed to do to get her shit together. April has done Catelynn wrong, no doubt about it, however, she worked hard to change her life around. Her daughter forgave her. From that point on, it is totally unfair for her to constantly throw out what April did or didn't do and use it as a crutch.

Whatever the case may be there with her childhood, she has had more opportunities to deal with that than the three people I know who suffered from similar circumstances and particularly someone who has had it worse. I personally know a young boy who watched his mother be killed in front of him. He is suffering from depression, but one thing he is not doing is, he is not reminding people that he is a victim of child abuse and domestic violence. He is not blaming. He is not using his traumatic childhood to excuse certain behaviors. He is in therapy to address his behaviors and depression. I would love for him to be able to travel to a facility for long-term help. Many people would appreciate to have the kind of help that is available at Catelynn's feet. She is not receptive to the help offered to her because for her to get better means she has to do something different in her daily life. She has to have a structured environment where she needs to be productive and actually handle day to day life. It is easier for her to curl up in a ball, cry, and have Tyler be her safety net. It also keeps Tyler from leaving her because she has managed to get him to feel all that is happening is somehow his fault.

/rant over/

Agreed that some people are able to overcome obstacles but some cant’/ won’t.

As far as her relationship with April, I am on Catelyn’s side there, she is still the child and April fucked her up big time.

Now, April did the best she knew how under the circumstances but still. Catelyn’s childhood was horrendeous because of her. 

And now, Cate is damaging Nova up. 

The main difference between Nova and Cate is that Nova has Tyler who is a present father.

Also, Tyler needs to lean on her mother, imo.

Edited April 13, 2018 by LIMOM

[ReadMeLattice]

I honestly feel nothing for April; she's a total abusive, disgusting POS and deserves whatever she gets IMO.

Catelynn is "better" in that she doesn't seem to be exposing Nova to violence from partners (Cate was beaten up by April's boyfriends, yes? I'd honestly be shocked if she hadn't been molested) and isn't an addict (at least not to anything but pot), but the standards are so mind-numbingly low that it's...just so depressing. And that's basically luck, she really didn't do anything herself to get there.

There are some things you can't be forgiven for. I don't think I'd ever forgive someone like April for abusing me that seriously...but Cate might just find herself in the same or a similar position with Nova if she doesn't straighten up. I truly hope she breaks the cycle, but it doesn't seem to be going in that direction. She really isn't ready or suited for motherhood, but Nova's already here. She actually seems to be getting worse and more selfish, not better. Such is the way of trauma, it actually gets worse with time, that's the bizarre truth--but when you have kids involved, you can't afford to go there, and it can't be about you.

On the other hand, I'm sure that to be the way she was, April had to have experienced trauma as a child as well. Intergenerational trauma is such a depressing, complex mess. It takes someone practically superhuman, either very high IQ, very hard-working, or very devoted and abnormally compassionate, to break out of it. I frankly don't think Catelynn is that person. At all.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Lm2162

[AirQuotes]

The thing is Cate was raised by April and she blames her problems on April.  We see Cate not being a good mother to Nova and doing things to damage her.  Everyone goes on and on and on about April's poor parenting choices, but the same way that Cate is making poor parenting choices because of her own parenting, April was also probably poorly parented.

We know Butch was sexually abused as a child because he has said so.  We know he has problems and issues.  Tyler and his sister want to whine and cry about what Butch has done to them but stuff was done to Butch too.  Just stop!  Stop the insanity and work on yourself!

At what point are people supposed to stop wallowing in the bullshit that came before them and fix their own self?  People want empathy for what they go through and their experiences but they don't want to consider what others have gone through and experienced.  Parents are people too.  Too often people make everything about themselves and their feelings without giving care or concern to the emotions and experiences of others.

You can't control the world around you or the actions of others.  You can only control yourself and how you react to things.  A very good book is Go Suck a Lemon.  An important piece of self talk that everyone needs to know:  Being angry at someone is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

[LIMOM]

57 minutes ago, AirQuotes said:

The thing is Cate was raised by April and she blames her problems on April.  We see Cate not being a good mother to Nova and doing things to damage her.  Everyone goes on and on and on about April's poor parenting choices, but the same way that Cate is making poor parenting choices because of her own parenting, April was also probably poorly parented.

We know Butch was sexually abused as a child because he has said so.  We know he has problems and issues.  Tyler and his sister want to whine and cry about what Butch has done to them but stuff was done to Butch too.  Just stop!  Stop the insanity and work on yourself!

At what point are people supposed to stop wallowing in the bullshit that came before them and fix their own self?  People want empathy for what they go through and their experiences but they don't want to consider what others have gone through and experienced.  Parents are people too.  Too often people make everything about themselves and their feelings without giving care or concern to the emotions and experiences of others.

You can't control the world around you or the actions of others.  You can only control yourself and how you react to things.  A very good book is Go Suck a Lemon.  An important piece of self talk that everyone needs to know:  Being angry at someone is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Which is why Cate forgave her mother however she is still damaged and acts like a damaged person, imo.

I can’t imagine that when she sees her child with her small courageous voice, telling her “thank you for coming back” that she does not feel like shit.

what she is doing to Nova is truly horrible however I hope that somehow, Cate will find the grace finally to pull thru with or without Tyler.

[ghoulina]

21 hours ago, lezlers said:

If I had a dollar for every person who told me to just give her candy as an incentive I could quit my job and stay home with her.  Then maybe she'd be trained.  You honestly don't think I've tried that??  Lord.   Some kids just aren't ready until later.  There's nothing wrong with it.  She'll be trained when she's ready.

You speak the truth. I did a version of the pottty-boot-camp thing with both my boys right after they turned 2. It worked wonderfully. With my daughter? Not so much. She just wasn't ready. I've yet to hear of someone entering college not potty trained, so it's not something we should sweat so much. 

 

20 hours ago, LIMOM said:

She is obligated to go to the reunion or risks being fired would be my guess.

Somehow I doubt that. Every reunion, it seems, one of these heiffers either doesn't show or storms off stage and refuses to come back. MTV could have, SHOULD have, fired half of them years ago. They clearly can do no wrong. 

[LIMOM]

3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

You speak the truth. I did a version of the pottty-boot-camp thing with both my boys right after they turned 2. It worked wonderfully. With my daughter? Not so much. She just wasn't ready. I've yet to hear of someone entering college not potty trained, so it's not something we should sweat so much. 

 

Somehow I doubt that. Every reunion, it seems, one of these heiffers either doesn't show or storms off stage and refuses to come back. MTV could have, SHOULD have, fired half of them years ago. They clearly can do no wrong. 

True. 

[ReadMeLattice]

7 hours ago, AirQuotes said:

The thing is Cate was raised by April and she blames her problems on April.  We see Cate not being a good mother to Nova and doing things to damage her.  Everyone goes on and on and on about April's poor parenting choices, but the same way that Cate is making poor parenting choices because of her own parenting, April was also probably poorly parented.

We know Butch was sexually abused as a child because he has said so.  We know he has problems and issues.  Tyler and his sister want to whine and cry about what Butch has done to them but stuff was done to Butch too.  Just stop!  Stop the insanity and work on yourself!

At what point are people supposed to stop wallowing in the bullshit that came before them and fix their own self?  People want empathy for what they go through and their experiences but they don't want to consider what others have gone through and experienced.  Parents are people too.  Too often people make everything about themselves and their feelings without giving care or concern to the emotions and experiences of others.

You can't control the world around you or the actions of others.  You can only control yourself and how you react to things.  A very good book is Go Suck a Lemon.  An important piece of self talk that everyone needs to know:  Being angry at someone is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

This is true, but when April was Cate's age, she was the same way or much worse. Cate's in her 20s. When April was in her 20s she was still doing drugs and letting her boyfriends beat up on her kids. If we were seeing her and Butch as young people, we'd be angry at them while feeling sorry for them at the same time, just as with Cate and Tyler. 

We're seeing April much later in life, with the benefit of some degree of hindsight, so comparing them either way really isn't fair. Cate was abused, but so was April, I'm sure, as you point out. April is better now, but she's many, many years older. Cate will probably go the same sad way...figuring out her sh*t far, far too late. 

The thing is, if anyone could figure out the magic secret to overcoming intergenerational trauma they'd be a billionaire. Nobody has so far. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Lm2162

[lezlers]

7 hours ago, ghoulina said:

You speak the truth. I did a version of the pottty-boot-camp thing with both my boys right after they turned 2. It worked wonderfully. With my daughter? Not so much. She just wasn't ready. I've yet to hear of someone entering college not potty trained, so it's not something we should sweat so much. 

 

Somehow I doubt that. Every reunion, it seems, one of these heiffers either doesn't show or storms off stage and refuses to come back. MTV could have, SHOULD have, fired half of them years ago. They clearly can do no wrong. 

I REALLY hate when MTV calls them "the talent."  The only "talent" these heiffers have is spreading their legs and getting knocked up.  And making impressively bad life decisions.

[happykitteh]

On 4/11/2018 at 9:11 PM, druzy said:

 

 

 

On 4/11/2018 at 9:11 PM, druzy said:

Ryan tells Dr. Drew about his experiences both in and out of rehab, and Dr. Drew encourages him to continue the search for a therapist.

Catelynn gets emotional after watching clips of her experience during the latest season.

Amber Skypes into the reunion to clear the air about how she behaved after breaking up with Matt.

Ryan is so full of crap in this clip that even Dr Drew, who usually buys into the cast members'  bullshit excuses, isn't buying it.  A therapist won't take you on as a patient because you're on a TV show? Most of the entertainment industry is in some sort of therapy and they manage to find treatment. Dont bring in cameras and they'd be happy to help you. A real therapist, as opposed to the hacks we've seen on this and other shows, won't allow filming of an actual session for entertainment purposes. Second excuse: addicts are selfish, Ryan is selfish, being on Teen Mom is selfish so they don't want him as a patient. Umm, addiction counselors are aware addicts are selfish, hence part of the need for their services. The most sickening part is when Mac says with an incredulous voice and manner that the counselors expect him to quit his "job" in order to be in  group counseling. Guess what bitch? If that's what it takes for Ryan to get clean you need to get off your trashy ass, get off the MTV gravy train, and get a JOB and support him while he's in recovery. That is if you give a shit about him at all and aren't just in it for the fame and money - which most suspect is the true reason you're with him. Ryan says it's all good since he had his mom, dad, and Mac to talk too. As if  they're all trained therapists specializing in addiction (eye roll).

Edited April 14, 2018 by happykitteh
Quote box double posted

[butterbody]

A few years ago I was in the hospital for a couple days having surgery, and when I got home, my little boy thanked me much the same way Nova did. I fully explained everything before I left but he was 3 and it probably felt like I was gone forever. It killed me, and I practically popped a stitch kneeling down but it was important to me that I looked him right in the eye to say mommy will ALWAYS come back. Fucking Cate said "you're welcome". Nova is going to have some major trust issues if she already knows her mom is gonna peace out while she's at school.

That scene in the shower was hilarious. The editors hate her now. They show her harumpf on to the ground, then stay on her for the whole 7 minutes it takes her to stand back up, only to relocate her ass to a new seat. The only thing missing was Benny Hill music.

I live in Arizona and  my friends who visit always want to move here. One thing that stuck out to me was that last tattoo Cate got.     

It is basically the same thing one of my basic friends get when they leave Arizona and go back to snowy Chicago. She loves it here. And who can blame her? It's gorgeous and 2000 miles from her responsibilities. I wonder if that heiffer has ever taken a spa trip here when it's 120°. That will make a person suicidal. (Too soon?)

Ryan is going through major withdrawals and I am certain he was sucking on marijuana lollipops to take the edge off. Which is hilariously selfish of his wife if he really needs them but she's eating them, too. 

 

Ambers feet..... I can. NOT. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I am going to swear A LOT in this post.  Just a warning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm so sick of Cate's shit.  Fuck her and fuck her for leaving Nova who I don't even like.  That was so sad.  And she has the balls to cry to the producer Kerthy? Fuck Kerthy for this enabling bullshit. How many millions of Americans have experienced trauma in their childhood?  Literally everyone.  Has anyone ever heard of ACES?  Or have taken the ACE Questionnaire?  The only people I know that have a 1 or a 0 are my Mormon friends.    Yes, Cate had it bad but so did I.  I wish we could make a comparison sheet.  Cate still talks to April - I can't even talk to my mom.  Having kids is traumatic for me because every situation that happens gives me anxiety about how things went for me during the situations my kids go through.  I have had a lot of therapy but I'm also present and I am an awesome mom!!!  I'm sick of listening to her whine and then talk about "me time".   I wondered if having to get rid of social media (on her phone) was actually hard for her, not getting the attention she usually gets from on there, she wanted to go running back to where she was getting attention 24/7.  Not even attempting to do outpatient.  She could find some really great resources locally and maybe even some friends who could relate to her if she was to try. 

I have been overwhelmed by trying to catch up on my shows and forums but somewhere someone said they have too much time on their hands and I agree.  I have bipolar disorder and I noticed I actually have less time to let my paranoia and rage engulf me when I am super busy working and staying active with my kids.  Everyone is different but I've noticed for me this really makes a difference.

 

These past two episodes have irritated me so much I was actually relieved to find out the reunion was next week.  I need a break from these dumbasses.  I know I should just stop watching.  This is the first time I ever seriously considered it.

[Emkat]

I HATE how that butterfly has creepily turned it's head back to look at me. I can see it in slo-mo like a horror movie. Shudder.

[Stusan]

5 minutes ago, Emkat said:

I HATE how that butterfly has creepily turned it's head back to look at me. I can see it in slo-mo like a horror movie. Shudder.

Thank, @Emkat, I didn't see that before, but now I can't UN-SEE it!

{shudders uncontrollably}

[Emkat]

It also looks like it has a stinger. WTF?

[MakingBacon]

At some point Tyler and Cate will break up and o assume they will have joint custody but Tyler will actually have her all the time because Cate will be continually rehabbing (until the money runs out) because she doesn’t want to live a real adult life. Tyler has a lot of faults but I don’t think he will just move on without Nova. He has shown himself to be pretty loyal to his family, particularly butch and his sister, and I see him wanting Nova to have a better childhood than he did. Besides, Cate doesn’t really show much interest in Nova. I could see her dropping Nova off with Tyler for the weekend and just not coming back for weeks or months because she needed me time. It is almost like she feels guilty spending time on Nova than should have been spent on Carly.

I don’t doubt Cate has some mental health issues but I think she uses them as an excuse to not face life. I say that because the rehab facility seemed to think she was ok enough to seek outpatient treatment and yet she wanted to go back to the facility. She likely decided she was going back to the facility before she left it.

 It was disturbing how she treated Nova this episode. That baby loves her mom so much and Cate seemed to want to get out of there as soon as possible. i would guess that it’s actually a little less tense in the house when Cate is gone because everyone seems to tiptoe around Cate. 

[KittyKat133]

On 4/12/2018 at 5:03 PM, SPLAIN said:

usiness is his business, not Kim's. The fact he runs to his mother and tells her about his private life, irks me.  I get the producers prod the cast members to talk about what is happening. But the one thing people should not do is talk about their relationship problems to friends and family, unless they plan on leaving the relationship. When you tell people the problems you are having with your partner, you are creating enemies for your partner. When you decide to stay with your shitty partner, after trash-talking about them to family and friends, you will look like a fool for putting up with the problems you were complaining about in the first place.

I agree with this to an extent. I believe in my relationship that I keep our deepest darkest issues private from most people, however, i tell my mom everything. If you really trust a person they will see things from both sides and not judge. Tyler needs some kind of outlet! I think he needed to vent to his sister and mother and I don’t see anything wrong in that. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, KittyKat133 said:

I agree with this to an extent. I believe in my relationship that I keep our deepest darkest issues private from most people, however, i tell my mom everything. If you really trust a person they will see things from both sides and not judge. Tyler needs some kind of outlet! I think he needed to vent to his sister and mother and I don’t see anything wrong in that. 

I tend to agree with you. Tyler needs someone to share with and even though Catelynn is his wife, she isn’t physically or emotionally present to share with. His mother of all people is the next appropriate person. She will always be his Mom (and has actually been a parent to him) no matter who his wife happens to be. 

[SPLAIN]

8 hours ago, KittyKat133 said:

I agree with this to an extent. I believe in my relationship that I keep our deepest darkest issues private from most people, however, i tell my mom everything. If you really trust a person they will see things from both sides and not judge. Tyler needs some kind of outlet! I think he needed to vent to his sister and mother and I don’t see anything wrong in that. 

The problem is, Kim and Amber won't see both sides. They will automatically take his word. Kim has always been pro-Tyler. A counselor or therapist is better because they are neutral. It is not about trust. It is about who will allow you to vent without being prejudice. Amber is prejudice because Tyler enables her to an extent. She knows what side her bread is buttered. Amber is also not in any place to listen about someone who is dealing with her own problems. Amber has her own issues and isn't not clear-headed to give any sort of input on what Tyler is dealing with since part of his problems also entail dealing with Amber and her own addiction. Kim and Amber are not professionals. It is one thing to vent about having had a sleepless night or a bad day working on the house. It is a whole other issue to run to two people who will surely not see both sides of the problem. I have had my loved ones come to me about issues concerning their partner's family problems. I may listen, but I never offer advice other than, "I think a therapist can help you out with this problem." I also recall at least two girlfriends who came running to me after having major fights with their boyfriends, calling them every name in the book, telling me all their woes about what assholes they are, and it left me feeling these guys are no good and it tainted my POV of them when I was in their presence. Overall, Tyler has the money and the means to acquire a therapist.

@AirQuotes I agree with your entire post.

Edited April 15, 2018 by SPLAIN

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, SPLAIN said:

The problem is, Kim and Amber won't see both sides. They will automatically take his word. Kim has always been pro-Tyler. A counselor or therapist is better because they are neutral. It is not about trust. It is about who will allow you to vent without being prejudice. Amber is prejudice because Tyler enables her to an extent. She knows what side her bread is buttered. Amber is also not in any place to listen about someone who is dealing with her own problems. Amber has her own issues and isn't not clear-headed to give any sort of input on what Tyler is dealing with since part of his problems also entail dealing with Amber and her own addiction. Kim and Amber are not professionals. It is one thing to vent about having had a sleepless night or a bad day working on the house. It is a whole other issue to run to two people who will surely not see both sides of the problem. I have had my loved ones come to me about issues concerning their partner's family problems. I may listen, but I never offer advice other than, "I think a therapist can help you out with this problem." I also recall at least two girlfriends who came running to me after having major fights with their boyfriends, calling them every name in the book, telling me all their woes about what assholes they are, and it left me feeling these guys are no good and it tainted my POV of them when I was in their presence. Overall, Tyler has the money and the means to acquire a therapist.

@AirQuotes I agree with your entire post.

I agree with you in theory, but it's not really realistic to expect someone to go to a therapist every time they want to vent about their partner. I vent to my mom about my husband (and our kids) all the time.  She loves my husband and doesn't let it taint her opinion of him.  No one is perfect and spouses are guaranteed to get on each others nerves from time to time.  If they don't, something is wrong.  You can't expect someone to go to a therapist every time they're annoyed at their partner and just want to blow off some steam.  In Tyler's case, you know the producers were prodding him to talk to someone about Cate going back to treatment and Amber was likely the closest sounding board.  It's not like his family aren't going to draw their own opinions about her based on what they see on the show anyway.

[lidarose9]

I honestly can’t disagree with anything said here condemning Cate. But I just watched "The Hours" again recently and keep thinking of Julianne Moore's character in that movie, one step away from suicide with an adorable kid at home and one in the oven. I was thinking about books like “A Thousand Acres” or “Ladder Of Years” where women abandon their children. Why? How?

 

I think Cate has grown to absolutely hate her life, but she can't walk away from it cuz too many people make too much money from it (including her and Tyler). So she has to keep playing this role: the brave little girl with the fucked up childhood and awful parents, pretending to be happy with Tyler, pretending to be happy being a mother, constantly having to rehash the decision to give up Carly, etc. etc. She lets down Nova. She lets down Tyler. She let down Carly, she let down Brandon & Teresa. Now she's the brave little depression-and-anxiety poster girl for MTV. She is an object that everybody makes judgments about. Even being unhappy, she is judged for. She feels intensely guilty for being unhappy. The only place where she is allowed to actually feel her real feelings, so far, has been at rehab ,so that's where she runs. Cuz she can.

 

Now that MTV breaks the fourth wall, we can see the way the producers lead them into storylines, no doubt when the cameras are turned off, feeding them lines. The others may be fine with this, but Cate is a damaged little girl that never grew up, never developed into a real person. She learned as a child, the safest thing is to reflect back what she thinks people expect to see in her. She's spent her whole life trying to be what others want her to be. She has no idea who she actually is and she’ll never find out til she gets away from this sick, toxic farce of a life. She needs to get the fuck out of Dodge, with or without Tyler and/or Nova, and start a new life of her own somewhere else, away from her fucked up family, away from the TV cameras and the Twitter followers and fans.

 

My heart absolutely breaks for Nova, but it's apparent that Cate is simply not capable to being a good mother to her, at least not now. Nova is just one more person pressuring her to be a certain way, expecting things from her. Nova is the ultimate person she is not good enough for.

 

Sometimes people who come from childhood trauma form coping mechanism that manifest in cold-hearted behavior towards the weak and vulnerable: “Hey kid, nobody rescued me. Nobody picked me up when I cried. If I could live with it, you can too.” Cate is enacting what April did to her, even thinking it’s for Nova’s own good.

 

It may be the best thing for Tyler and Cate to split up and for Tyler to get custody. Not everybody is cut out for parenthood. Every time I see Cate turn away from Nova, I see April turning away from Cate, and think about how Carly doesn’t have to experience this. Nova would be better off with a mom like Teresa or Kristina. I’m sure Tyler could find a nice boy who wants a family. But that will never happen cuz it’s not in the storyline for Cate and Tyler’s happily ever after MTV life. It makes me sick the way MTV is making money on the backs of these tiny people with no rights.

 

I suspect if she can't break out of this prison, Cate will turn to drugs or alcohol or make good on her talk of suicide. There is nothing Tyler or anyone can do for her in this, except set her free, give her permission to go off and be miserable and try to find her real self and a new way of living.

 

My ex-husband used to work with juvenile felons. It was pointless to help these kids develop life skills and empathy and such, only to send them back to the cesspools they came from -- the family system is sick. This is why Butch can't get sober. You can't go back to the same situation that created the mess and expect everything to suddenly be different.

 

In a fantasy world, a new house or a new baby would please everyone, make everything OK. Cate desperately wants to figure out what that is and be it, but she just can't. I can imagine how elated she felt when she realized her MTV money would provide welcome $ for her family. She was no longer Cate the Survivor. She was Cate the Hero, all by getting knocked up and giving up the baby.

 

Now all these years later, it's plain that throwing money at people doesn't solve their problems and in many cases makes it worse. So much for Cate the Hero. Now she's Cate the Failure. The miscarriage was an externalization of what has been eating her up inside for years: I can't do anything right. I am not good enough. Anybody else would be happy with my life; why can't I be? You pretend to be happy to keep up the facade, but inside it is killing you.

Cate has the means available to run away to rehab, so she does. You know what’s NOT in rehab? MTV cameras. I’m telling you, if I had someone following me around filming my life, I’d run away too. You take a girl from a seriously fucked up family who has learned from early childhood that her value is determined by her ability to keep people around her happy -- then put her in front of TV cameras and give the whole world access to her private life so that literally everyone gets to evaluate her, judge her, snark on her. Then you pay her a ton of money to do it. It's like torturing an animal in a cage.

[Kazu]

28 minutes ago, lezlers said:

I agree with you in theory, but it's not really realistic to expect someone to go to a therapist every time they want to vent about their partner. I vent to my mom about my husband (and our kids) all the time.  She loves my husband and doesn't let it taint her opinion of him.  No one is perfect and spouses are guaranteed to get on each others nerves from time to time.  If they don't, something is wrong.  You can't expect someone to go to a therapist every time they're annoyed at their partner and just want to blow off some steam.  In Tyler's case, you know the producers were prodding him to talk to someone about Cate going back to treatment and Amber was likely the closest sounding board.  It's not like his family aren't going to draw their own opinions about her based on what they see on the show anyway.

I agree with you. I vent to my girlfriends from time to time. But I do think there is a difference between talking about an annoying partner and what is happening to Tyler and Nova. Tyler is sucked in this vortex and needs someone in a professional position to guide him. Not Kinko Kathy.

We also know that the show is filled with producers who will set up these scenarios and ask the cast members to talk about a particular topic. In a normal setting, I just don't think it is a good thing to set up your spouse to be looked at negatively by people who know your life behind closed doors.

I just find it horrid that MTV not only paid for these spa visits, but they went out of their way to find a place that would allow them to film Cate's vacation. It is all about MTV and their need for ratings.

It is a television show and what is happening on the show, as was pointed out, is being broadcast to not only Tyler's family, but to the public. He is now receiving all of these comments about his wife, many of which are supporting the idea that he should remain with Cate. What a heavy load of guilt that is being laid upon him. That has to be messing with his mind especially after he publicly announced he might be better off leaving the relationship. This guy and his daughter are not in a healthy place and definitely they need help from an outside source who is not being paid by MTV.

[kokapetl]

A place that offers six week treatment programs seems shady. Some people do need to be treated for six weeks, but don’t most clinics work on a “we’ll see how you go” basis? 

[lezlers]

4 hours ago, Kazu said:

I agree with you. I vent to my girlfriends from time to time. But I do think there is a difference between talking about an annoying partner and what is happening to Tyler and Nova. Tyler is sucked in this vortex and needs someone in a professional position to guide him. Not Kinko Kathy.

We also know that the show is filled with producers who will set up these scenarios and ask the cast members to talk about a particular topic. In a normal setting, I just don't think it is a good thing to set up your spouse to be looked at negatively by people who know your life behind closed doors.

I just find it horrid that MTV not only paid for these spa visits, but they went out of their way to find a place that would allow them to film Cate's vacation. It is all about MTV and their need for ratings.

It is a television show and what is happening on the show, as was pointed out, is being broadcast to not only Tyler's family, but to the public. He is now receiving all of these comments about his wife, many of which are supporting the idea that he should remain with Cate. What a heavy load of guilt that is being laid upon him. That has to be messing with his mind especially after he publicly announced he might be better off leaving the relationship. This guy and his daughter are not in a healthy place and definitely they need help from an outside source who is not being paid by MTV.

Oh, I TOTALLY agree.  Tyler definitely needs to get some professional help (from a REAL therapist) to try and navigate this clusterfuck that his life has become.  

[CofCinci]

14 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

A place that offers six week treatment programs seems shady. Some people do need to be treated for six weeks, but don’t most clinics work on a “we’ll see how you go” basis? 

If it’s a program that offers evidence-based treatments (DBT, CPT, PE, EMDR, etc.) they’d want a 6-week (or longer commitment) because the client/patient/resident/consumer/guest would have 12-15 scheduled therapy sessions in that six weeks.

[Caracoa1]

I believe Cate's biggest fear is Tyler leaving....deep down she needs to accept it is a very real possibility.  Tyler needs to end this farce of a Marriage and see that Cate gets real help.  She needs to accept she gave away her child to "keep Tyler".  As disasterous as her life seems it can and will get worse when the MTV money is gone... Tyler will get custody and Cate will be on the hook for child support.  She needs to take this opportunity to work on her mental health issues, properly invest her money, get some type of education or job training....and get the hell off MTV.  As depressed as she is feeling...she is choosing  the easy MTV money..of course the way this show is going there will be a Teen Mom Season 20 with the girls becoming grandparents.

[Mr. Miner]

That tattoo is fucking lame! "Bomb ass work"....hardly!