S07.E18: One Life To Live

[ginger90]

Found this article (2015) about Cate’s treatment facility:

http://tucson.com/news/local/third-sierra-tucson-patient-death-in-months/article_b073f788-4af9-512f-bb37-8692aecb9292.html

[mamadrama]

7 hours ago, A-Lo said:

I'm so sorry you had to endure all of that, Mama.  What you've recounted is REAL trauma.  And multiple layers of it!  Where's your trip to a spa in AZ?

I know, right!? I am clearly going about this the wrong way.

[happykitteh]

 I think when Cait got on the plane to come home she had already planned on coming right back.  Her face in the car where she's driving home from the airport doesn't look depressed or sad to  me, it looks PISSED OFF! The spa told her she could do outpatient, most likely told her she needed to get back home and Cait wasn't having it. She didn't want to leave so she concocted a plan to be miserable at home, wait a few days to make it look like she "tried" and then call the spa and say she needed to come back. When Tyler took her to look at the new house bitch couldn't even stand up for more than 2 minutes. Must be taking her cues from Amber. When she was telling Tyler she was having anxiety since being home she went from teary-eyed-feel-sorry-for me mode to snapping at him a few minutes later in an aggressive manner that "I'm going back!" No discussion, no asking him how he'd feel about that. Decision made. During the scene in the kitchen where Cait was calling the spa to tell them she was coming back it was the same thing. She shot down every reasonable suggestion Tyler had about at least trying outpatient before running off. He seemed afraid to push the issue, afraid to upset her. I wish he had the balls to tell her exactly what he told his sister about how he felt about what she was doing. Tyler needs to dish up some tough love reality to this lazy self centered bitch.

If I'm understanding the timeline correctly Cait was gone for both Thanksgiving AND Christmas. Sooo she can leave the spa to attend the reunion but can't come home for Christmas? Like a week would have made that much difference in her "recovery"? That would have been the first Christmas Nova had a real appreciation of the season - Santa, helping to bake cookies, decorating the tree - and Cait missed it! With kids there's only a few really magical Christmases where they believe in Santa and have that over the top excitement.

For me, Cait as officially taken the crown from Amber as Worst Mom of the franchise.

[druzy]

Ryan tells Dr. Drew about his experiences both in and out of rehab, and Dr. Drew encourages him to continue the search for a therapist.

Catelynn gets emotional after watching clips of her experience during the latest season.

Amber Skypes into the reunion to clear the air about how she behaved after breaking up with Matt.

[Kaia40]

12 hours ago, Chickabiddy said:

All the makeover Cate really needs is a good bath, a decent diet and a reasonable exercise regime. They can paint her up with dye and shellac her with face paint nine ways until Tuesday, but it will always only be a cover up -lipstick on a pig - if you will. ;-) No amount of make up or redo can hide her poor lifestyle. As posted upthread, girlfriend looks 50. 

As for Nova and potty training, it's a muscle-mind connection that just sort of has to click with kids - and all kids have their owns rhythms with this. It's not necessarily a sign of anything wrong if they are slow to learn or have accidendents.

HOWEVER - I find Nova quite delayed for a 3 year old - particularly one in daycare/preschool. Kids in such programs tend to learn alot from other kids and are usually more precocious than kids who aren't.  Between her poor speech, reliance on a bottle, and potty problems, I think her parents infantilize her too much. There is no structure, no discipline, no stimulation, and above all, no high expectations in her home for what she can achieve or what she is capable of.  I always treated my one and only child like a reasonable, intelligent human being who could understand concepts if they were explained gently and simply enough.  I never  spoke to him in baby talk or or just said, "because I said so." It really is amazing what you can get out of kids if you treat them with a little respect, provide regular stimulation, and demand a certain level of comportment  Nova's parents treat her like a pet. 

On the subject of pets, did anyone notice the difference in Cate's good bye to her child and her good bye to her dogs? With Nova she was stone cold and with the dogs she was blubbering like she would never see them again.

Your entire post is spot on but, my favorite part is “All the makeover Cate really needs is a good bath.” I actually spit out my drink as I read this!! lol! It’s true, I can smell her through the TV! She’s a terrible mother and wife!! Such a selfish bitch! She’ll manage!!” Are you kidding me? 

[CaliforniaLove]

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I felt bad for Tyler. He was clearly excited to show her and she couldn't muster up anything more than a monotone, "cool". 

To be fair, what did he expect from showing her the SHOWER?! 

Btw, what the hell is up with Andrew's foofy bouffant? Since one Farrah is off the show, he's trying to replace her by becoming Farrah Fawcett? 

[Quita]

4 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Found this article (2015) about Cate’s treatment facility:

http://tucson.com/news/local/third-sierra-tucson-patient-death-in-months/article_b073f788-4af9-512f-bb37-8692aecb9292.html

This article says that people who self pay, do so at $1300/day. If we use that as a base cost, it's $9100/week x 6 weeks = $54,600 x 2 visits = $109,200.00 (give or take) for Cate's trauma rehab. I sure hope it's worth it. I wonder if she has any idea how much it costs.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Quita

[MaddyMaeboxerbabe]

And that was back in 2015 so probably even more now.  Expensive little spa stay!

[happykitteh]

I laughed when Amber told NuMatt that it was important for him to be around for the baby's first few months. Translation: I won't be changing diapers or getting up middle of the night. I'll do daytime feedings if you heat the bottle and bring it and the baby to me in bed. You'll also be in charge of baths with the exception of when I need to take a pic of what a hands-on mom I am to post on social media. I will be spending all my time in bed due to the hardship of giving birth since I already know I will have the most difficult and excruciating labor and delivery of any woman EVER.

It seemed like she was angling for NuMatt to invite her to stay with his parents in their fancy ass Malibu beach house while they're in LA. She made a point to say she needed to find a really nice place to stay since she'd be taking care of the baby, then proceeded to say how pricey that would be and, "I guess I'll be spending the money while you make the money." That was followed by how it would be a great opportunity for her to meet his parents and they her. SOmeone here said e's on the outs with his parents, that they kicked him out but Amber is probably unaware. I hope his parents check out Teen Mom episodes before they let Amber in their home. Once she's ensconced in a lovely beach house worth millions they'll never get her out, particularly if they have staff to wait on her, lol! At that point she'll gladly sign over full custody of Leah to Gary and Kristina and never care if she sees her again.

[KittyKat133]

I don’t know, I don’t see nova as delayed per se. I think it’s more emotional problems, lack of attention, lack of stimulation, and mostly bad/lazy parenting mostly on caits part. Cait has literally left her so many times. My daughter just turned three. The only time I was away from her was when I had my son and was in the hospital. 

As far as the speech, I’m not sure she’s delayed or just quiet. My daughter is a big mouth started talking before one. She just turned three two weeks ago.  I had her analyzed recently because of her pronunciation (she’ll say like fun-yee instead of funny and bunn-yee instead of bunny and sometimes you can’t understand what she’s talking about) but they almost laughed me out of there. The difference is nova can speak but it’s almost like she wants to stay a baby. She doesn’t want to be a big girl. 

They have put such an emotional toll on this little soul. Caits cold behavior, her post partum, her lack of patience, her depression, her constant abandonment, her sleeping 18 hrs a day. I think it’s way more of an emotional toll than a developmental issue. I truly feel that nova picks up on the fact or maybe subconsciously feel as if she is the cause of her mother being miserable. It’s a lack of love. 

I feel like nova does so much better with Tyler. He has way more patience. He plays with her, doesn’t force her to nap, gives her more free reign to explore, tends to her needs even when it’s not convenient for him. He needs to take that baby and run if she’s gonna have any sort of chance. I can’t believe I’m bragging about Tyler! 

Caits a selfish narcissist in the worst way. The way that she hides behind mental illness and that gives her an excuse to be a lazy selfish destructive twat. She needs to get over herself and her “trauma”. 

Novas so at a loss for attention she’s esting whole onions to be noticed!!!! AND THEY ALLOW IT!!!!!!!! DYSFUNCTIONAL!!!!

[happykitteh]

If April and Cait's dad (forgot his name) ever have to attend another family therapy session with Cait to once again be raked over the coals of their past parenting sins in order to enable Cait's "mental illness" excuse they should both look her dead in the eye and say, "What's the problem? You'll manage."

[jumper sage]

6 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Found this article (2015) about Cate’s treatment facility:

http://tucson.com/news/local/third-sierra-tucson-patient-death-in-months/article_b073f788-4af9-512f-bb37-8692aecb9292.html

Wow the price of that place is high and the poor record is concerning.  I do think they are getting it for free for the publicity.

3 hours ago, Kaia40 said:

I find Nova quite delayed for a 3 year old

I kid you not I knew a child of 6 who was not potty trained.  Her father finally took 2 weeks off work and said he would get it done himself and he did.  The kid could read and write and do math.  It was very weird.

I agree that sometimes the kid will do it when he/she is ready.  My sister started her daughter at age 2 and we thought she was too militant and the child who is 27 now is still having bathroom issues.  I think she messed with her head and now she has all kinds of stress related to the bathroom.  My sister's son who is 7 years younger was allowed to tell his mom when he was ready and they just let him in the bathroom when they went and gave him a potty chair to play with and sure enough when he said he was ready he was trained within a week.  He had no accidents, even at night.  To this day he has a normal experience with the bathroom.  My sister and his dad did discussed the potty training without pushing him.  Nova should be drinking from a cup.  You have to get rid of the sippy cups, let alone a bottle, by age 1.  Just get the 2 handled cups with a minimal amount in it.  This whole thing of kids running around all day with drinks/snacks is not good.  Look at Maci and her never ending travel cup.

I remember going to a Tupperware party back in the day and they had a snack container that was shaped like a tube with different compartments and clipped to a stroller.  Perfect to raise your little millennial. LOL

[LIMOM]

Somehow, Cate resents Nova and as a result neglects her.

I also think that Cate is truly depressed and one of the less known sign of depression is irritable mood.

It is obvious That she is overwhelmed by her home situation because of her mental illness.

And while Tyler looks better this season, I am not quite ready to elevate him to sainthood. It takes two to tango, imo.

it is a sad situation for Nova and it saddens me to know that she will be able to see the unfortunate footage of her childhood. I guess her therapist will know exactly what she went thru growing up. A sad mess!

[Caracoa1]

Tyler needs to stop leading Cate on and file for divorce now.  Let her deal with her biggest fear (losing Tyler) now while MTV is footing the bill.. newsflash Cate...in the real world people have to pay for their "rehab".  Being that she is such a public figure, Sierra Tuscon can see she is not following her after care protocol....they probably already have a room booked under her name for this Summer.

[Calm81]

I just watched the after show to the finale and during the show Nessa has the audience and Tyler do a poll on whether or not Amber should move to LA.

Tyler says “No!! I think Andrew should move back he’s a cinematographer.” How did Amber take hearing her “friend for life” say that her soon-to-be baby daddy should move to LA while she stays in Indiana? 

Tyler legit sounded like he didn’t like Andrew and that they should live in different states. Yeah, Andrews career choice is more dense in LA but when you’re expecting a baby, where the baby is, should be where the parents are. I want to know Tyler’s real reason for saying that. A falling out? I’m shocked Amber didn’t gangsta twitter war with him over that comment. 

[MargeGunderson]

Both Cate and Amber claim that they are getting treatment so that they can get better for their kids, but much like their claims that they are "great" moms, I call bullshit. Sure, they need to improve their mental health to be better parents, but their are ways to do so that don't require leaving/not seeing their child for weeks on end. Funny how both of them always choose that option. 

[lezlers]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:37 PM, Jeanne222 said:

I wanted to ask.  How old is nova?  I notice she's still wearing a diaper.  I guess nobody has time for potty training.

She knew her mother was going to disappear again.  That's why she cried at school.  Sad.

btw do they offer any grooming classes at that fancy spa..I mean rehab??  Cate looks like she could do with a full make over.  That hair...what can I say.

My daughter is one day older than Nova and not potty trained.  I promise you, it's not from lack of effort or trying on our part.   Some kids aren't ready until later, that's not always a reflection on the parents.   Cate is a shitty mom for a LOT of reasons, but I'm cutting her a break on the potty training. 

[Jeanne222]

So I'm thinking MTV paid for Cate 's first visit to the spa...sorry..treatment center.  I wonder if their footing the bill for this visit?

Then again the center is getting a lot of publicity on MTV so maybe it's a win,win for everybody but Nova!

[lezlers]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 5:04 PM, mamadrama said:

I am still having trouble processing the fact that she was there over Christmas. When my son was 3, I was hospitalized for hyperemesis. I'd been in the hospital for 3 weeks and it was getting close to Christmas. I finally talked them out of releasing me for a week. I was having panic attacks at the thought of not being there for my family. They installed a Picc line and set me up with a home health nurse so that I could go home for a week to spend Christmas and New Years' with the family. Had they not done that, I probably would've just checked myself out anyway. 

As someone who is frequently hospitalized, I'd trade places with just about anyone if it meant that I didn't have to be away from my husband and kids so much. When an organ ruptures and has to be removed, I don't have much of a choice. Cate and her nonchalant attitude about how Nova will "manage" and her hightailing her ass back to the spa rehab without even discussing it with her husband first can kiss my toe. 

I totally gasped at that, too.   Even if you're not a holiday person, Christmas with small kids is important.  It's one of the most joyful parts of parenting!  The fact that she'd voluntarily miss Christmas with her precious daughter but would leave for the reunion speaks volumes about her priorities.

[Jeanne222]

5 minutes ago, lezlers said:

My daughter is one day older than Nova and not potty trained.  I promise you, it's not from lack of effort or trying on our part.   Some kids aren't ready until later, that's not always a reflection on the parents.   Cate is a shitty mom for a LOT of reasons, but I'm cutting her a break on the potty training. 

I trained four children before they were two.  It's called the M & M training camp.  One for #1 and 2 for #2.  The kids just loved it.

They never got much candy so those m &, j's were a huge treat.

I was a stay at home mom and knew when they were interested.  It took a couple of weeks with no diapers but fancy little panties for the girls and cartoon underwear for the boys.

One accident in real underwear made them believers!

[teapot]

12 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

To be fair, what did he expect from showing her the SHOWER?! 

 

ohhhhh I love me a good shower!  I'd be talking about rain shower-heads and steam and.....I'm getting misty over here just talking about it....

[lezlers]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 6:47 PM, GreatKazu said:

OMG I didn't even think of Baby Huey paying those teens to Skype him. 

lol @ your open season comment.

You summed it up perfectly. Cate is jerking the mental health system. That time could be better spent on someone who truly desires help and is not manipulating people for sympathy. 

I have been going after her for a long while now. She is fucking ridiculous and she is playing Tyler for a fool. Cate is not a PTSD sufferer. She just tweeted two weeks ago about life being grand when she was growing up. Cate is not mentally ill with depression or anxiety. She is fearful of Tyler leaving her. She is mentally disturbed. 

Ehhh, I'm totally on the Cate hate train after this episode (how dare she expose Nova to the same feelings of abandonment she's now complaining of from her childhood) but I wouldn't go as far as to say she doesn't have mental health issues.  I do believe she suffers from depression and anxiety, she's just exploiting it for her own needs at the moment.  I also think she probably does suffer from PTSD after her childhood.  Many many people suffer from PTSD, you don't have to have gone to war to suffer from it.  

That being said: fuck Cate and her selfish ass.

[lezlers]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:04 AM, Calm81 said:

By daughter is on the spectrum, too. Her speech therapist said for me to not try potty training her until she can speak. She just turned 3 (a couple months younger than Nova) and training her is like you said “hitting a brick wall” but I have some programs in the works that I’m hoping my get her more engaged with certain milestones. She’s obsessed with horses so I reached out to a facility that can do equine therapy.

I agree! Once she gets something she gets it fast so I’m hoping the potty training will happen like a fart in the wind. ?

I often wondered if Nova is on the spectrum, too. Not to pick her a part because I think she’s adorable and has the same love of horses as my little girl (I keep spotting the same toys and bed spread my daughter has in the episodes and it’s placed a soft spot for Nova - I wish her mom appreciated her ?). I just have noticed a few things but nothing serious, she needs parents that have note patience and time for her (you’d thing two parents without jobs had all of the time in the world) but as it stands, Tyler is pretty much a single dad.

Just want to reiterate that just because a child isn't potty trained by the time they're three doesn't mean they're delayed or on the spectrum, which has been implied here.  Some kids are just ready later than others.  That doesn't mean something is wrong with the child or the parents (yes, I know I'm projecting.  It's just frustrating to read some of these comments when I have done EVERYTHING to train my three year old and have gotten nowhere.  She's neuro-typical and not at all delayed.  Still, potty training = brick wall. It may or may not be slowly driving me insane.  I think I need to hit the spa in Tucson.)

[alexa]

4 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Just want to reiterate that just because a child isn't potty trained by the time they're three doesn't mean they're delayed or on the spectrum, which has been implied here.  Some kids are just ready later than others.  That doesn't mean something is wrong with the child or the parents (yes, I know I'm projecting.  It's just frustrating to read some of these comments when I have done EVERYTHING to train my three year old and have gotten nowhere.  She's neuro-typical and not at all delayed.  Still, potty training = brick wall. It may or may not be slowly driving me insane.  I think I need to hit the spa in Tucson.)

I agree.  I think in Nova's case people feel that way because she seems behind in more than one area--not just potty training.  As for potty training itself, my son was one of the last of the kids in his 3yr old class to potty train, but he was ahead of the other kids in everything else.  He just is one of those that when it comes to physical development he will do it when he is ready and then will do it quickly.  So he really held out until a few months before his 4th birthday and I just tried to be patient and it worked out.  I was a little concerned though, I won't lie, lol.  

But Nova isn't getting a lot of interaction, and other things she needs to be closer to other kids her age.  So I do think at times she seems younger than she is, but she will probably catch up.

[Calm81]

30 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Just want to reiterate that just because a child isn't potty trained by the time they're three doesn't mean they're delayed or on the spectrum, which has been implied here.  Some kids are just ready later than others.  That doesn't mean something is wrong with the child or the parents (yes, I know I'm projecting.  It's just frustrating to read some of these comments when I have done EVERYTHING to train my three year old and have gotten nowhere.  She's neuro-typical and not at all delayed.  Still, potty training = brick wall. It may or may not be slowly driving me insane.  I think I need to hit the spa in Tucson.)

I’m sorry if my post implied that delayed potty training equaled on the spectrum. ?

I only mentioned nova and my daughter because I have seen some other signs of delays with Nova that mirror my baby. I totally agree that there are plenty of kids that potty trained late and are perfectly fine. My brother took until he was 4.5 years old and he had no other delays. 

Again, I’m sorry if my post implied that all kids with trouble potty training were on the spectrum. I’m terrible at conveying my thoughts, at times. ❤️❤️

[Chickabiddy]

I just want to chime in (again) to be clear that I think Nova is delayed for her age only because her uneducated and poorly-raised parents are not giving her enough attention, physical stimulation, mental stimulation, or emotional support. On the C and T thread, there were comments about her physical size at well. I have no doubts that she is malnourished, ie, being fed, but not getting the proper nutrients to allow her to thrive both physically and mentally.  I firmly believe that she would be a completely different person if she were being raised with Carly by B and T. 

Look at the way Cat and Tyler talk to her. They talk to her in this ridiculous baby talk and only repeat partial sentences and phrases back to her. We never see them having a conversation with her or asking her about anything in an effort to get her to share her own narrative and practice storytelling.   "Nova, let's go to the park and the play. What do you like to do most at the park, Nova? Tell us what you see a the park?" Talking to her in more complete sentences and encouraging a response allows her to practice and develop language skills. Look at the difference between how Gary and Kristina interact with their children and C and T. Also, there are tons of books all over G and K's house, and only dog poop, laundry, and  dirty dishes around C and T's 

As for the potty training issue, I think with Nova her delay, coupled with everything else, is a sign  that her problems stem from C and T's shitty parenting. Who gives a toddler liquid right before a nap or bedtime?  I wrote previously, potty training is  muscle- mind connection thing. Either the switch is flipped or it isn't. If it comes a little later for some kids, this alone is not a bad reflection on the child or the parents. Likewise, if a child potty trains early, it is not a reflection on your superior kid or parenting skills. I mean, really, later in life when people are collecting their Nobel Prizes or winning a gold medal at the Olympics, do we really think the issue of of how and when they potty trained even comes up in the conversation? Give me a break.  

[druzy]

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

So I'm thinking MTV paid for Cate 's first visit to the spa...sorry..treatment center.  I wonder if their footing the bill for this visit?

Then again the center is getting a lot of publicity on MTV so maybe it's a win,win for everybody but Nova!

MTV footed the bill for all of her spa vacations.

The last spa she went to was Cottonwood Tucson

Take a look at their menu and daily schedule. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by druzy

[alexa]

1 hour ago, Chickabiddy said:

I just want to chime in (again) to be clear that I think Nova is delayed for her age only because her uneducated and poorly-raised parents are not giving her enough attention, physical stimulation, mental stimulation, or emotional support. On the C and T thread, there were comments about her physical size at well. I have no doubts that she is malnourished, ie, being fed, but not getting the proper nutrients to allow her to thrive both physically and mentally.  I firmly believe that she would be a completely different person if she were being raised with Carly by B and T. 

Look at the way Cat and Tyler talk to her. They talk to her in this ridiculous baby talk and only repeat partial sentences and phrases back to her. We never see them having a conversation with her or asking her about anything in an effort to get her to share her own narrative and practice storytelling.   "Nova, let's go to the park and the play. What do you like to do most at the park, Nova? Tell us what you see a the park?" Talking to her in more complete sentences and encouraging a response allows her to practice and develop language skills. Look at the difference between how Gary and Kristina interact with their children and C and T. Also, there are tons of books all over G and K's house, and only dog poop, laundry, and  dirty dishes around C and T's 

As for the potty training issue, I think with Nova her delay, coupled with everything else, is a sign  that her problems stem from C and T's shitty parenting. Who gives a toddler liquid right before a nap or bedtime?  I wrote previously, potty training is  muscle- mind connection thing. Either the switch is flipped or it isn't. If it comes a little later for some kids, this alone is not a bad reflection on the child or the parents. Likewise, if a child potty trains early, it is not a reflection on your superior kid or parenting skills. I mean, really, later in life when people are collecting their Nobel Prizes or winning a gold medal at the Olympics, do we really think the issue of of how and when they potty trained even comes up in the conversation? Give me a break.  

Do you remember a long while back when they were bragging about how early she was learning to potty train?  I remember they would have the little toilet out and brag that she was learning younger than most.  Well, how did that go for you, C and T?  lol

[CaliforniaLove]

12 hours ago, KittyKat133 said:

As far as the speech, I’m not sure she’s delayed or just quiet. My daughter is a big mouth started talking before one. She just turned three two weeks ago.  I had her analyzed recently because of her pronunciation (she’ll say like fun-yee instead of funny and bunn-yee instead of bunny and sometimes you can’t understand what she’s talking about) but they almost laughed me out of there

 

1 hour ago, Chickabiddy said:

Look at the way Cat and Tyler talk to her. They talk to her in this ridiculous baby talk and only repeat partial sentences and phrases back to her. We never see them having a conversation with her or asking her about anything in an effort to get her to share her own narrative and practice storytelling.   "Nova, let's go to the park and the play. What do you like to do most at the park, Nova? Tell us what you see a the park?" Talking to her in more complete sentences and encouraging a response allows her to practice and develop language skills

This is the problem I see with Nova as well. The way they CONSTANTLY parrot the incorrect things she says is just ridiculous. Nova will say something like "Dah-yee go park!" instead of "Dada" or "Daddy", and Tyler will say "yes Dah-yee go park!".  I don't see it as just not nurturing, or not properly engaging, I see it as almost encouraging her to not speak correctly. If they aren't going to engage, or attempt speaking to her "normally", can they at least make a slight attempt to correct her? Just a simple "yes, DADA is taking you to the park". 

[druzy]

3 minutes ago, alexa said:

Do you remember a long while back when they were bragging about how early she was learning to potty train?  I remember they would have the little toilet out and brag that she was learning younger than most.  Well, how did that go for you, C and T?  lol

Good memory! They don't really follow up on things. What ever happened to Carly House?

[Snarky McSnarky]

1 minute ago, druzy said:

Good memory! They don't really follow up on things. What ever happened to Carly House?

Carly House is in Fantasyland, right next door to Amber's sober living facility.

[SPLAIN]

On 4/10/2018 at 6:00 AM, druzy said:

He should hire a hot nanny.

A hot guy nanny, right?

Many of you have made great points about Catelynn.  Narcissism, insecurity, laziness, manipulative, attention-seeking, lack of motherly instincts, BPD, the list goes on and on.

I have mentioned a type of Munchausen-type personality. Catelynn seems to be a self-destructive person and her actions are deliberate and could be a habit. She is trying to drive Tyler away and to reject her. The way she tries to accomplish this is by sabotaging the relationship through her behavior. Catelynn is manipulative, as others have pointed out. That can take an emotional toll on the person(s) who is on the receiving end. Those people are Nova and Tyler

I can't help but feel for Tyler. It doesn't negate him being some of the things he is such as playing the role of martyr. A part of me wonders if that is how he copes with what he is dealing with or is that what he thinks he should be doing in order to appease Catelynn. She goes from one extreme to another with that guy. It is either I want you or leave me. She is spreading her messages of love to Tyler on social media, but then she throws out at him how he should leave her. That is mentally and emotionally abusive to the person who is on the receiving end of that behavior. It doesn't matter what mental disorders she may suffer from, no one should have to tolerate such behavior.

Tyler had me in that scene with his sister. He sounded sincere with his words. My black heart was feeling so sorry for him. I think he wants out of the relationship, but the constant threats of suicide and the fear of backlash he would receive from Catelynn and from social media is what keeps him from packing his bags. Tyler also has no back-up plan. He doesn't have a reliable job to fall back on. He might be feeling if he breaks up with Catelynn, he would suffer financially or it would be the end of the show entirely.

[lezlers]

2 hours ago, Calm81 said:

I’m sorry if my post implied that delayed potty training equaled on the spectrum. ?

I only mentioned nova and my daughter because I have seen some other signs of delays with Nova that mirror my baby. I totally agree that there are plenty of kids that potty trained late and are perfectly fine. My brother took until he was 4.5 years old and he had no other delays. 

Again, I’m sorry if my post implied that all kids with trouble potty training were on the spectrum. I’m terrible at conveying my thoughts, at times. ❤️❤️

No worries, I wasn't singling out your post.  :)

[rafibomb]

3 hours ago, lezlers said:

Just want to reiterate that just because a child isn't potty trained by the time they're three doesn't mean they're delayed or on the spectrum, which has been implied here.  Some kids are just ready later than others.  That doesn't mean something is wrong with the child or the parents (yes, I know I'm projecting.  It's just frustrating to read some of these comments when I have done EVERYTHING to train my three year old and have gotten nowhere.  She's neuro-typical and not at all delayed.  Still, potty training = brick wall. It may or may not be slowly driving me insane.  I think I need to hit the spa in Tucson.)

Don't worry, you'll get there! My son isn't delayed at all, and he didn't successfully potty-train until he was about 2 weeks shy of his 4th birthday. We were starting to worry we'd have to send him to kindergarten in diapers. But when he finally decided he was ready, it just clicked, and he potty-trained in a weekend. Most of our efforts prior to that were just an exercise in futility, IMO. 

[ginger90]

My first and third were easy to potty train. The middle one, not so much. She would find a hiding spot and go in her pull up, diaper whatever, I forget, she’s 28 now, lol. The summer prior to starting pre-school it all worked out. 

[jumper sage]

3 hours ago, lezlers said:

Just want to reiterate that just because a child isn't potty trained by the time they're three doesn't mean they're delayed or on the spectrum, which has been implied here.  Some kids are just ready later than others.  That doesn't mean something is wrong with the child or the parents (yes, I know I'm projecting.  It's just frustrating to read some of these comments when I have done EVERYTHING to train my three year old and have gotten nowhere.  She's neuro-typical and not at all delayed.  Still, potty training = brick wall. It may or may not be slowly driving me insane.  I think I need to hit the spa in Tucson.)

I think to insist a child will be trained by the age of 2 is ridiculous and can cause a myriad of, as I call them, bathroom issues.

9 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

Don't worry, you'll get there! My son isn't delayed at all, and he didn't successfully potty-train until he was about 2 weeks shy of his 4th birthday. We were starting to worry we'd have to send him to kindergarten in diapers. But when he finally decided he was ready, it just clicked, and he potty-trained in a weekend. Most of our efforts prior to that were just an exercise in futility, IMO. 

I agree.  The best way is when they train themselves for they do it quickly and it sticks.

[mamadrama]

28 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

I think to insist a child will be trained by the age of 2 is ridiculous and can cause a myriad of, as I call them, bathroom issues.

I agree.  The best way is when they train themselves for they do it quickly and it sticks.

Mine was almost 4 before we were able to leave the house without accidents. Now she's 6 and nobody cares when she was potty trained. You can't tell the difference between her and someone who did it at 2. It all comes out in the wash eventually. :-)

[ghoulina]

5 hours ago, lezlers said:

Ehhh, I'm totally on the Cate hate train after this episode (how dare she expose Nova to the same feelings of abandonment she's now complaining of from her childhood) but I wouldn't go as far as to say she doesn't have mental health issues.  I do believe she suffers from depression and anxiety, she's just exploiting it for her own needs at the moment.  I also think she probably does suffer from PTSD after her childhood.  Many many people suffer from PTSD, you don't have to have gone to war to suffer from it.  

That being said: fuck Cate and her selfish ass.

Right. She can HAVE mental health issues and still be a fucking horrible person separate from those issues. I can give her a pass only up to a certain point. She's an adult who is hiding away at a resort and not taking appropriate steps to live a real life. It's ridiculous at this point. 

 

5 hours ago, lezlers said:

Just want to reiterate that just because a child isn't potty trained by the time they're three doesn't mean they're delayed or on the spectrum, which has been implied here.  Some kids are just ready later than others.  That doesn't mean something is wrong with the child or the parents (yes, I know I'm projecting.  It's just frustrating to read some of these comments when I have done EVERYTHING to train my three year old and have gotten nowhere.  She's neuro-typical and not at all delayed.  Still, potty training = brick wall. It may or may not be slowly driving me insane.  I think I need to hit the spa in Tucson.)

I don't think anyone has implied that delayed potty training means a kid is on the spectrum. Bowel control issues ARE a symptom of ASD, but all kids (neurotypical or not) do things in their own time. When I shared about my daughter being on the spectrum, it wasn't to say that Nova definitely was. It was just ONE example of a kid who's not ready to be potty trained when her peers were. 

[ReadMeLattice]

12 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Right. She can HAVE mental health issues and still be a fucking horrible person separate from those issues. I can give her a pass only up to a certain point. She's an adult who is hiding away at a resort and not taking appropriate steps to live a real life. It's ridiculous at this point. 

 

Yes, this. I think Cate absolutely does have PTSD from her childhood and the adoption (honestly, anyone would, and most people with PTSD are not vets) and, IMO, clearly suffers from depression. I'm sure she has triggers and panic attacks and flashbacks and that those are very real.
However, it's not just that this doesn't excuse her bad behavior...I actually think they're not even related. Narcissism and selfishness are not symptoms of PTSD. Having a kid that you don't actually plan to care for (by far the worst thing she's done, imo--the way Nova is being treated breaks my heart) is not a symptom of PTSD. Not caring about your spouse's health and treating life as a permanent vacation is not a symptom of PTSD. Those things are just her character flaws, and possibly her inherited legacy, as her mother, and most likely her father, are the same way. Mental health is just their latest "passion project" and the latest excuse for their behavior...before it was being oh so mistreated by Brandon and Theresa, before that it was being upset over Carly...they'll likely never move forward in life substantially.

Same thing with Tyler...I do think he has mental health issues and trauma (obviously) of his own, but his grandstanding and narcissism, IMO, aren't symptoms of that. 

They are both selfish people, and very concerned with what people think. Tyler is very vain and into his image, and Catelynn is invested in her laziness. Thinks there should be a handout for everything. The way she and Tyler talk about their adoptive parents is as if they are a king and queen who sacrificed their firstborn to two lonely beggars rather than pregnant teens from abusive backgrounds who got lucky in finding a nice adoptive family.

I often find myself sympathizing more with Tyler than with Cate on the show, but then changing my mind when I see his social media posts, lol. He milks it to the extreme and loves to be fawned over.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Lm2162

[Rebecca]

I know someone has probably already said it (I have no self control and have only read one page so far before I HAD TO post this because I was thinking it all along while watching) but, Catelynn casually says that Nova will “get over it” in regard to Catelynn being gone, for weeks, multiple times ...at “treatment” for her childhood issues, that she, in her mid-20s is still not “over!” Oh, the fucking irony. Nova can just play this episode for her future therapists, if not the whole series. Catelynn is really lacking in empathy but she thinks she deserves everyone else’s empathy and support. It’s insane how little she feels for her child.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Rebecca

[Pepper Mostly]

5 hours ago, lezlers said:

Just want to reiterate that just because a child isn't potty trained by the time they're three doesn't mean they're delayed or on the spectrum, which has been implied here.  Some kids are just ready later than others.  That doesn't mean something is wrong with the child or the parents (yes, I know I'm projecting.  It's just frustrating to read some of these comments when I have done EVERYTHING to train my three year old and have gotten nowhere.  She's neuro-typical and not at all delayed.  Still, potty training = brick wall. It may or may not be slowly driving me insane.  I think I need to hit the spa in Tucson.)

Don't you worry about a thing. One day she'll get it, and that will be that. Since she'll be a little older, you'll be far less likely to deal with accidents, too. Once my son was fully trained (at 3.5), it was smooth sailing. Our neighbors' daughter was fully trained at 4. Some kids just like to take their time. When she's ready, she'll get there, and quick!

5 hours ago, Chickabiddy said:

I just want to chime in (again) to be clear that I think Nova is delayed for her age only because her uneducated and poorly-raised parents are not giving her enough attention, physical stimulation, mental stimulation, or emotional support. On the C and T thread, there were comments about her physical size at well. I have no doubts that she is malnourished, ie, being fed, but not getting the proper nutrients to allow her to thrive both physically and mentally.  I firmly believe that she would be a completely different person if she were being raised with Carly by B and T. 

Look at the way Cat and Tyler talk to her. They talk to her in this ridiculous baby talk and only repeat partial sentences and phrases back to her. We never see them having a conversation with her or asking her about anything in an effort to get her to share her own narrative and practice storytelling.   "Nova, let's go to the park and the play. What do you like to do most at the park, Nova? Tell us what you see a the park?" Talking to her in more complete sentences and encouraging a response allows her to practice and develop language skills. Look at the difference between how Gary and Kristina interact with their children and C and T. Also, there are tons of books all over G and K's house, and only dog poop, laundry, and  dirty dishes around C and T's 

As for the potty training issue, I think with Nova her delay, coupled with everything else, is a sign  that her problems stem from C and T's shitty parenting. Who gives a toddler liquid right before a nap or bedtime?  I wrote previously, potty training is  muscle- mind connection thing. Either the switch is flipped or it isn't. If it comes a little later for some kids, this alone is not a bad reflection on the child or the parents. Likewise, if a child potty trains early, it is not a reflection on your superior kid or parenting skills. I mean, really, later in life when people are collecting their Nobel Prizes or winning a gold medal at the Olympics, do we really think the issue of of how and when they potty trained even comes up in the conversation? Give me a break.  

I agree! When my kid was three we were going out to lunch (OK, McDonalds or the local pizza joint, but still...), hanging out at the park, going to the library, all kinds of stuff. We were always chattering--by three, he could hold a conversation just fine. Not a very sophisticated conversation, we weren't talking about our Oscar picks or what we thought of the situation in the Middle East, but real talking, with sentences and a cohesive theme. Tyler and Cate still speak to Nova like she's an infant. I've never seen either one of them read to her.

And I concur wholeheartedly with every word of your last paragraph. Same with pacifiers. No kid goes off to college with a binkie. People need to chill! It really is like flipping a switch--once they know how, they know how! (Its actually really great to see, something I enjoyed a lot when my son was little, each accomplishment, each milestone reached, was so satisfying and fun to watch!)

Edited April 12, 2018 by Pepper Mostly

[Bridget]

3 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

 

This is the problem I see with Nova as well. The way they CONSTANTLY parrot the incorrect things she says is just ridiculous. Nova will say something like "Dah-yee go park!" instead of "Dada" or "Daddy", and Tyler will say "yes Dah-yee go park!".  I don't see it as just not nurturing, or not properly engaging, I see it as almost encouraging her to not speak correctly. If they aren't going to engage, or attempt speaking to her "normally", can they at least make a slight attempt to correct her? Just a simple "yes, DADA is taking you to the park". 

This x 10,000!

When Cate took Nova to daycare, N said something that C didn’t understand. C then used the ever impressive “hmmm?” to get N to repeat herself instead of saying something to encourage N to speak clearly.

When Nova is speaking and MTV’s subtitles indicate “inaudible” on the screen, that’s when I go nuts. She struggles with verbal expression because she doesn’t have to clearly verbally express herself (that we’ve seen on camera) as a result of your very accurate description of how her parents interact with her. I think they have an unspoken rule of “three words max” when they speak to their daughter.

I wonder how N gets on at daycare - seriously. I’ll bet her teacher encourages her to speak clearly. 

I’ve also noticed that Nova also omits several words in a typical sentence, and many times it’s the verb. I know toddlers are still learning the “rules of their native language”, but it really sticks out to me more than other toddlers I know/interact with.

I guess we should be glad she’s not adopting a double negative speech pattern...yet!

[druzy]

Maybe Nova was trying to tell her mother she was scared to go to school. Maybe one of the teachers hit her or worse. It happens all of the time at daycares and schools.

As a mother wouldn't Cate be concerned about the safety of her child? I guess not.

[teapot]

33 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

 

I agree! When my kid was three we were going out to lunch (OK, McDonalds or the local pizza joint, but still...), hanging out at the park, going to the library, all kinds of stuff. We were always chattering--by three, he could hold a conversation just fine. Not a very sophisticated conversation, we weren't talking about our Oscar picks or what we thought of the situation in the Middle East, but real talking, with sentences and a cohesive theme. Tyler and Cate still speak to Nova like she's an infant. I've never seen either one of them read to her.

mine thought he was thirty-five!  he astutely informed me that Kermit the Frog *lived* on Sesame Street and *worked* on the Muppet Show.  Blessing & a curse that he had a SAHM that talked to him like he was her BFF b/c she had no one else to talk to!!!

[mamadrama]

5 minutes ago, teapot said:

mine thought he was thirty-five!  he astutely informed me that Kermit the Frog *lived* on Sesame Street and *worked* on the Muppet Show.  Blessing & a curse that he had a SAHM that talked to him like he was her BFF b/c she had no one else to talk to!!!

Ha ha, mine too. My 6 year old still thinks she's 35. Last night she paused the TV on an image of Freddy Kruegar's face and said, "Isn't that beautiful work? It's almost all makeup work with hardly any prosthetics or CGI!" (We watch a lot of FACE OFF.)

[SPLAIN]

24 minutes ago, druzy said:

Maybe Nova was trying to tell her mother she was scared to go to school. Maybe one of the teachers hit her or worse. It happens all of the time at daycares and schools.

As a mother wouldn't Cate be concerned about the safety of her child? I guess not.

Apparently, her concerns begin and end with the baby monitor. Anything outside of the scope of that baby monitor drives Catelynn over the edge because it means she has to interact with her child and do her job. Amber and Catelynn have a lot in common.

[Jeanne222]

6 hours ago, lezlers said:

My daughter is one day older than Nova and not potty trained.  I promise you, it's not from lack of effort or trying on our part.   Some kids aren't ready until later, that's not always a reflection on the parents.   Cate is a shitty mom for a LOT of reasons, but I'm cutting her a break on the potty training. 

I trained four children before they were two.  It's called the M & M training camp.  One for #1 and 2 for #2.  The kids just loved it.

They never got much candy so those m &, j's were a huge treat.

I was a stay at home mom and knew when they were interested.  It took a couple of weeks with no diapers but fancy little panties for the girls and cartoon underwear for the boys.

One accident in real underwear made them believers!

[teapot]

3 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

Apparently, her concerns begin and end with the baby monitor. Anything outside of the scope of that baby monitor drives Catelynn over the edge because it means she has to interact with her child and do her job. Amber and Catelynn have a lot in common.

for some reason, that made me think of this Nicole person from Intervention.  She had been sexually assaulted really badly, but she had this crazy eating disorder and a feeding tube.  Her daughter would come near her when she was on the computer & she'd snap at her.  By the end of the episode the daughter wanted nothing to do with her.  Careful, Cate...

[Jeanne222]

So if Tyler was to leave Cate we can guess he would get custody with no Kristine like Gary has.  What would he do?

I am kind of surprised he is sticking around because unlike Cate he seems to have a common sense mother.  But then again she did marry crazy butch!

I wonder how much she is stepping in to help Tyler with this mess he has on his hands.  Haven't seen her on the series this season but a couple of times.  Seems like Tyler s sister is the one MTV wants now.

[Jeanne222]

7 minutes ago, teapot said:

for some reason, that made me think of this Nicole person from Intervention.  She had been sexually assaulted really badly, but she had this crazy eating disorder and a feeding tube.  Her daughter would come near her when she was on the computer & she'd snap at her.  By the end of the episode the daughter wanted nothing to do with her.  Careful, Cate...

I'm having a hard time thinking of little nova in that car going to day care knowing Cate was taking off again.

Cate showed her no love at all.  She was so cold to that little girl.  No hugs or I love you.  

Your right nova will know and she'll turn her back on care the was Cate turns her back on Nova.

Since that show was taped what's Cate's status now?