S13.E17: The Thing

[Wayward Son]

I have a question for the Dean centric fans. Have his emotional ups and downs made sense for you this season??

 

At the start of the season he was depressed over the loss of Mary and Cas. I understood that. When Cas returned he perked up, which I found understandable. When they learnt Mary was alive he became maniac to the point he threatened a teen girl with a gun, which made sense to me. 

 

However, after their trip to the bad world he became mr relaxed and in relative good cheer and then in this episode he’s went back into maniac “we can’t wait, I must go now mode!” Have his emotional ups and downs between Wayward Sisters and now made sense to you? They haven’t to me, but then I’m not a big Dean fan so I could be missing nuances hence this question lol. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

However, after their trip to the bad world he became mr relaxed and in relative good cheer and then in this episode he’s went back into maniac “we can’t wait, I must go now mode!” Have his emotional ups and downs between Wayward Sisters and now made sense to you? 

Narratively, it doesn`t make sense. But as it has pretty much been the case forever that they introduce something "big" and then shelf it for the MOTW episodes, be that for plot or character throughlines, I have gotten used to that pretty much. Sam`s sudden depression which kinda comes and goes as well was more out of left field to me because it just sprung up in a random MOTW and wasn`t precicipated by some noticeable event in the show as is usually their custom. So that broke pattern for me.

The other stuff? It`s what you get when individual writers don`t really collaborate.     

Overall I like when Dean is more kick-ass and involved. Which he can be ironically both under depression or in good spirits. I just take anything over dumbifying "comedy" or sleepwalking Deansel all the time.

I think the ending ot this episode was just jarring. They have devoted two episodes to two ingredients. One was aquire off-screen - boo, I wanted to see Cas adventures with the djinn - and so they had three. And wouldn`t you know, with two minutes to spare until the episode ends, Ketch walks in randomely with ingredient 4. Then they have to do the spell right now and scene, the episode ends. 

A bit more of a reason for the sudden rush would not have been amiss. Simply say that the recent meddling with the seal of Solomon means its power is running out and it`s only good to use for another hour or so. Bam, you go with the urgency.  Or the grace becomes unviable if left in that bottle too long. Anything.

 

Quote

But, there was no reason not to wait for him.  It's not like Mary and/or Jack just got sucked intot he other dimension hours ago.  It's been months, for Mary at least.  I don't know where Cas is, but presumably not that far away.  A few more hours wasn't going to make a difference.  If they had thrown something in about why they had to open the rift in the next 5 minutes, I would totally agree with you.  Like this particular spell only works at Midnight on April Fool's Day. Golly, Sam, that's tonight. checks watch.  We have 3 minutes to do this spell.

Oh, I completely agree that everything was very rushed. Right now I can`t even see the narrative reason for it. Like, why is it gonna be important for Dean and Ketch to be in AU world for a day? They are obviously not gonna reach their goal just yet. Padding for episode 18? Seems flimsy. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Aeryn13

[Pondlass1]

I agree with many of the points made here.  My main complaint was the lackadaisical attitude toward the woman they saved.  Ok, so they're used to stranger things but when they let her wander off outside in the dark by herself I rolled my eyes... 'oh, here we go again'.  

The pacing was a bit off.  Although it was never boring and I enjoyed the episode, the second half was a wee bit rushed.  I wish we got a whole hour instead of 42 minutes... damn commercials!

I enjoy Ketch.  I liked the other one too - Angus or whatever he was called.  They at least they had layers and a bit more complex than flat one note baddies like Asmo. Ketch is out for himself and will switch sides in an instant.  Dean isn't stupid and won't trust him as far as he could throw him, but I'm interested to see their adventures in the AU. 

The writers seem to have moved away from gluttonous, clumsy, illiterate Dean and onto kale loving, stick up his ass Sam.  

Anyway I'm anxious to see how the season ends.  Maybe it will be spectacular?

[gonzosgirrl]

Random moment of Dean hotness: Dropping down that entrance into the MoL lair. Niiiiice!

[ILoveReading]

19 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I have a question for the Dean centric fans. Have his emotional ups and downs made sense for you this season??

 

At the start of the season he was depressed over the loss of Mary and Cas. I understood that. When Cas returned he perked up, which I found understandable. When they learnt Mary was alive he became maniac to the point he threatened a teen girl with a gun, which made sense to me. 

 

However, after their trip to the bad world he became mr relaxed and in relative good cheer and then in this episode he’s went back into maniac “we can’t wait, I must go now mode!” Have his emotional ups and downs between Wayward Sisters and now made sense to you? They haven’t to me, but then I’m not a big Dean fan so I could be missing nuances hence this question lol. 

Honestly no.  They haven't. 

I agree with what you said about the start of the season.  So many loses piled on top of each other and his low self esteem and sense of guilt his metal state in Advanced Thanatology made sense.  It made sense when he perked up when Cas came back.

But depression that deep doesn't just go away even with the big win Dean got.

It's why I thought the Kaia plot point was lazy writing to get from point A to point Z.  As much as I didn't like it, it should have been dealt with.

But 2 days in monster land, Dean's like 'meh we live here now.  Then he's like "it will take time."  now he's all we must go now.   Even I can admit this is jarring.  It feels like there was a bunch of scenes missing.

Sam's mental state was the same way.  I can see him not being as effected as Dean.  He wasn't as close to Mary and Cas as Dean was.  Everything Sam had faith in and even some stuff he didn't came true.  So Sam's "its hopeless" attitude seemed so far out in left field as Dean's "mary can wait" attitude.  As much as I liked the Scooby ep, its placement seems to interrupt something.  Its like there was a bunch of scenes missing. 

Its just point A to point Z.  It's the lack of communication from the writers.  Like I said, I don't even know if they read each others scripts. 

I think Jensen tried, as Dean still seemed very much on edge in Scorpion and The Frog, like one more bad thing was going to send him over the edge but even Jensen can only do so much if the basic writing isnt' there.  I could even buy that Dean was repressing his feelings for Sam, but the writers should have shown us some cracks in Dean's armor. 

They seem to have no attention to detail. 

[DittyDotDot]

20 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I have a question for the Dean centric fans. Have his emotional ups and downs made sense for you this season??

At the start of the season he was depressed over the loss of Mary and Cas. I understood that. When Cas returned he perked up, which I found understandable. When they learnt Mary was alive he became maniac to the point he threatened a teen girl with a gun, which made sense to me. 

However, after their trip to the bad world he became mr relaxed and in relative good cheer and then in this episode he’s went back into maniac “we can’t wait, I must go now mode!” Have his emotional ups and downs between Wayward Sisters and now made sense to you? They haven’t to me, but then I’m not a big Dean fan so I could be missing nuances hence this question lol. 

I wouldn't call myself a Dean-centric fan--or any-centric fan--but I think it does make a certain amount of sense. I mean, I don't think they really smoothed it out very well, but I think Dean just got manic and impatient when there was something to do. Like with Kaia, they were standing around talking when they could've been getting to Mary. But once they ended up in The Bad Place, it was time to switch to survival mode and Mary had to go on the back burner since they had no way to get to her anyway. Then once they got back, they still didn't have a way to get to Mary. I think he was still just as motivated to get to Mary but there was nothing to be done about it until Ketch gave them the archangel grace. Then Dean's back in action mode. I actually think it's kinda Dean's standard operating procedure. 

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Finally a tactically sound decision at the end because them both going stupidly through the rift would have been, well, stupid. One SHOULD stay behind in case things go wrong. Yes, it was a plot convenience that Cas wasn`t there but since he wasn`t, taking Ketch wasn`t a bad idea. He is a strong fighter and while not untrustworthy, it`s still better than leaving him at the bunker. 

IA that it was plot contrivance too. But then again, perhaps Dean's fear of losing any of his loved ones again was heightened even further after this most recent bout.

IOW this:

8 hours ago, SueB said:

I could be totally off base here, but It felt like this was Dean’s plan from the get-go.  Go alone.  I think he’s protecting Sammy and maybe Cas.  Just a hunch.  And taking Ketch with him keeps that viper within eyesight of Dean — where Dean can control what’s going on with him rather than leave Sam to deal with a messed up Archangel AND Ketch.  

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

But, there was no reason not to wait for him.  It's not like Mary and/or Jack just got sucked intot he other dimension hours ago.  It's been months, for Mary at least.  I don't know where Cas is, but presumably not that far away.  A few more hours wasn't going to make a difference.  If they had thrown something in about why they had to open the rift in the next 5 minutes, I would totally agree with you.  Like this particular spell only works at Midnight on April Fool's Day. Golly, Sam, that's tonight. checks watch.  We have 3 minutes to do this spell.

The bolded words are key for Dean. In his mind, she's still being tortured. And this is Dean Winchester. He's not going to wait. He can't wait. Impulsive is his middle name when it comes to the people he loves being in dire straits and as soon as Ketch showed them the angel grace his plan was formed.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Myrelle

[Ria]

The whole idea of a demon being able to hold captive an archangel, render him powerless and feed off his grace without dying was too idiotic and at odds with all canon. Gabrielle should be able to kill this demon with a blink of his eyes. I’m also not buying the real Gabrielle was not killed by Lucifer. Lucifer would know his own brother and whether he was really dead. I realize there is a lot of suspension of believe in watching shows like this. But at least stay true to your own canon. 

[ILoveReading]

If you need the Seal of Solomon, fruit from the tree of life, arch angel grace and the blood of a most holy man, how excatly did the hooded people open the tentacle dimension in the first place?

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, Jeddah said:

It didn’t make sense to me that they opened the rift in the main living area since anything could come back through the rift. They have a secure room for things like this. The whole ending just felt so rushed.

 Was there some rule that it had to be done in a MoL place?  I can't believe they didn't do it in the dungeon. It's ridiculous.

Them opening a rift in the bunker set me to thinking back to 12.22 when Hess called someone to open a portal and they said there wasn't enough time. I'm wondering now, given that these folks knew about this, if Hess or even Ketch, knew about the rift and the ability to move between dimensions If so could there be ApocaMoL?

Maybe this is a Ketch from that world and he's trying to get back. Remember when there were doppelganger Ketch and Mary torturing Mary but they claimed it was shapeshifters? Maybe it was actually ApocaMoL swapping out?

I just can't see why they are dealing with Ketch who was dead, dead, really most sincerely dead. Why would Rowena have ever given him a spell? His answer seemed pretty flimsy to me all along. There has been no confirmation from Rowena that she gave that to him. Yes, I know it hasn't come up yet which seems like an obvious thing the boys would ask her about.  It seems like a plot hole or it's awaiting a DUN DUN DUNNN big reveal.

Maybe Ketch has a completely different reason for doing all this at it's been a long game for him tied to the BMOL?

[Pondlass1]

We should take up a collection and buy a whiteboard and some markers for the writing room.  They could then make a list of who can use which weapon, which weapon does what, who's more powerful in the lineup of characters... etc.  

It's all such a canon mishmash after 13 yrs.  Ok for the casual viewer but irritating for the invested.

I have to smile when they jab their arm with the needle.  Are they supposed to be mainlining or what? 

[catrox14]

35 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Random moment of Dean hotness: Dropping down that entrance into the MoL lair. Niiiiice!

Seriously. I actually said out loud to the TV, "hot, athletic Dean FTW". and cheered. It was so sexy.

[ahrtee]

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

If you need the Seal of Solomon, fruit from the tree of life, arch angel grace and the blood of a most holy man, how excatly did the hooded people open the tentacle dimension in the first place?

They probably got it from the MoL HQ, which is why there wasn't any of it left for Sam and Dean. :)  

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

They probably got it from the MoL HQ, which is why there wasn't any of it left for Sam and Dean. :)  

Except Sam and Dean only found out which ingredients they needed when Donatello translated the tablet.  The Men of Letters didn't have access to the tablet.  How did they know what to use and where would they get arch angel grace?

[Bergamot]

50 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the ending ot this episode was just jarring. They have devoted two episodes to two ingredients. One was aquire off-screen - boo, I wanted to see Cas adventures with the djinn - and so they had three. And wouldn`t you know, with two minutes to spare until the episode ends, Ketch walks in randomely with ingredient 4. Then they have to do the spell right now and scene, the episode ends. 

A bit more of a reason for the sudden rush would not have been amiss. Simply say that the recent meddling with the seal of Solomon means its power is running out and it`s only good to use for another hour or so. Bam, you go with the urgency.  Or the grace becomes unviable if left in that bottle too long. Anything.

Your ideas certainly would have made the episode work better, @Aeryn13! It shouldn't be that hard for the writers to come up with ideas like that, things that make the episode make more sense. It's just a matter of putting a little effort into it, if they only would.

But that's the way I feel about the writing most of the time. I have given up on them having a well-constructed season-long arc, either in terms of the plot or in terms of where the characters are emotionally, especially an arc that ties back to what happened in previous seasons. Mostly I just try to find episodes or scenes that I can enjoy in isolation. And I thought there were some fun scenes in this one!

44 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I enjoy Ketch.  I liked the other one too - Angus or whatever he was called.  They at least they had layers and a bit more complex than flat one note baddies like Asmo. Ketch is out for himself and will switch sides in an instant.  Dean isn't stupid and won't trust him as far as he could throw him, but I'm interested to see their adventures in the AU. 

Me too. However, in regard to Ketch, I am looking forward to seeing his interactions with Dean, but I hope that they don't have him achieve redemption. I like him the way he is. I like the fact that since he has come back, he keeps trying to join up with Dean and Sam, that he thinks he is one of the good guys and doesn't understand why they should be killing him rather than teaming up with him. Hopefully they will do something interesting with the character that does not involve him somehow becoming one of the good guys.
 

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Except Sam and Dean only found out which ingredients they needed when Donatello translated the tablet.  The Men of Letters didn't have access to the tablet.  How did they know what to use and where would they get arch angel grace?

Also, where did they get something that had been in that other dimension?

[DittyDotDot]

19 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Except Sam and Dean only found out which ingredients they needed when Donatello translated the tablet.  The Men of Letters didn't have access to the tablet.  How did they know what to use and where would they get arch angel grace?

I had a big eye roll at the archangel grace too. I mean, I can imagine the spell was noted someplace else other than just the demon tablet, but where the MoL would've gotten the archangel grace is beyond me. I mean, it's not likely that any of them gave up their grace willingly, so did they capture an archangel and steal it's grace. Um, okay, sure.

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Also, where did they get something that had been in that other dimension?

You didn't need something that had been in the other dimension to open the rift, you only needed it to help guide you to the right one. Which, I got the impression they didn't get the right one and that's how they ended up with the tentacle monster instead of the god they were hoping for.

Edited April 6, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Personally, I thought Sam and Dean were pretty dumb throughout the entire episode, too. First, they unchain a 100-year-old woman without as much as a question of what she was doing there in the first place; which, of course she's a monster, come on guys! Then they open the rift without taking two seconds to talk to Gabriel first. And, there is no reason why Ketch is still alive. At the very least I would've locked him in the dungeon, at most I'd have shot him in the head, but I definitely wouldn't have allowed him to cross the rift with me. Whatever.

Well, they did say they tested her with everything they knew about.  Dean found a bunch of pictures of various women with her picture set aside, so it looks like she was chosen randomly.  And they certainly thought the MoL were shady enough to do something particularly nasty.  Not defending, just coming up with a (possible) explanation.  They certainly should have watched her more closely and not trusted her so thoroughly.  

About opening the rift immediately without stopping to ask anyone--well, wasn't that what Sam did when Rowena said, "hey, I can get you into the Cage--oh, don't bother waiting for Dean?"  Or any number of other stupid decisions they made without thinking through first.  Either the writers do think they're incredibly stupid, or that the viewers are.  *sigh*  

IA lock Ketch in the dungeon.  In fact, when he asked for asylum, that's what I thought they were going to offer him--life in the dungeon or there's the door.  But imagine the screaming from fans if Dean had just shot him in the head pointblank (like the Styne kid.)  Even those who thought Ketch deserved it would be calling foul and OOC at the cold-bloodedness of it.  

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Except Sam and Dean only found out which ingredients they needed when Donatello translated the tablet.  The Men of Letters didn't have access to the tablet.  How did they know what to use and where would they get arch angel grace?

I was actually joking, because any time they need something (except when plot needs them to do something *really stupid* to get it) the MoL either have it or know where to get it.  They have always come up with things the MoL aren't supposed to know/have but apparently have known about for decades or more--starting with Henry needing an angel feather for his spell, when (according to Cas at the time) angels hadn't been "walking among" humans for millennia till the apocalypse was threatening.  (Yes, Anna and Uriel did say that there were garrisons watching--though supposedly not interacting with--humans all that time.)  But of course then there was Ishim announcing himself to Lily Saunders--who apparently had been studying angels for years and knew how to summon them, so apparently *some* people knew about them...so much so that Henry thought he could just go to a MoL store and buy some feathers--and "a pinch of the sands of time"?) Or how many Seals of Solomon are there?  Maybe they could come up with their own spells and substitutions as long as they had at least one main ingredient (ie, the Seal of Solomon?)  

[gonzosgirrl]

Yeah, considering the ways in which a rift has already been opened in show, I'd say this spell is 'a' way to do it, not the only way to do it.

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Seriously. I actually said out loud to the TV, "hot, athletic Dean FTW". and cheered. It was so sexy.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

These were great shots.

[notcreative enough]

16 hours ago, Lemuria said:

No Supernatural.  Yankees vs Baltimore!  ARRRGGGHH!

Somebody please give a brief recap--Please!!

We had that too and according to the tv guide they will air on Saturday. I guess I'm lucky we have cw on channel 11 that had the baseball game but we have cw 57 that aired supernatural.

[catrox14]

Jensen is such a lithe athlete. Gods, I want to see him play baseball so badly. LOL.

 

38 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

These were great shots.

Companion/bookend to

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

[Bobcatkitten]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

Like a cat!

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

This is just ridiculously hot, and holy Batman, Dean! AMIRITE? I am right.

[sarthaz]

It took me surprise that I totally loved this episode. I can't put my finger on why, because there are a lot of nits I want to pick with it (where's Cas? tentacles?), but it had a pace and style that the show's really been lacking. Perhaps it's because I've been watching Season 8 on TNT and just got done with Benny and Amelia, so my expectations are low?  I dunno.  I loved it.  I loved the badass fight sequence, and I'm OK with the construct of sending Ketch off with Dean. I'd have preferred a little more explaining why Cas can't go, etc, but whatever -- Dean pointing out that he's rooting for Ketch to die on the mission covers that up for me.  In general, I hate the AU stuff and I call bullshit on there being this spell to open a rift at will (and what controls which AU they go to -- Dean's hair has been to two other worlds).  But this episode just worked for me.  Brothers working together, low angst, some laughs, a good fight -- I was engaged and entertained.

[SueB]

57 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This is just ridiculously hot, and holy Batman, Dean! AMIRITE? I am right.

Absolutely!  I was also surprised to see Jared do the same trick -- he's so tall, it's hard to have that kind of arm strength when you are that tall.  Jensen is ridiculously athletic for a guy who appears to not have played organized sport in his youth.  Jared's usually got an impressive wing span or a jumping capability, but he pulled off the drop as well.  I'd go down like a sack of potatoes.

[SueB]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Well, they did say they tested her with everything they knew about.  Dean found a bunch of pictures of various women with her picture set aside, so it looks like she was chosen randomly.  And they certainly thought the MoL were shady enough to do something particularly nasty.  Not defending, just coming up with a (possible) explanation.  They certainly should have watched her more closely and not trusted her so thoroughly.  

Yes, at least the tested her. 

Honestly, I presumed since she seemed "random" that she was the victim and the MoL were the badguys.  I didn't see her as the monster in a flapper suit until she started eating people.  So, she fooled me too.  I wonder how much Dean seeing her picture affected their caution.  If they had just found her there, without any indication that she had been selected out of a group of girls, I think they might have done more exploration or at least questioning before they took her out.  And she must have felt Sam and Dean were insufficient snacks or she could have chowed down on them and brought her lover.  

5 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I have a question for the Dean centric fans. Have his emotional ups and downs made sense for you this season??

 

At the start of the season he was depressed over the loss of Mary and Cas. I understood that. When Cas returned he perked up, which I found understandable. When they learnt Mary was alive he became maniac to the point he threatened a teen girl with a gun, which made sense to me. 

 

However, after their trip to the bad world he became mr relaxed and in relative good cheer and then in this episode he’s went back into maniac “we can’t wait, I must go now mode!” Have his emotional ups and downs between Wayward Sisters and now made sense to you? They haven’t to me, but then I’m not a big Dean fan so I could be missing nuances hence this question lol. 

I love both boys but I'll answer if that's okay....

I think there IS something going on with Dean.  His attitude all tracked until he came back from the Bad Place (as you've said).  I chalked it up to realizing that Sam was in a bad spot so Dean pushed his shit down to cheer up Sammy.  BUT he gave himself the bum-rush off to the AU.  Like "I'm doing this, no questions... trust me."  It didn't feel like an off-the-cuff decision.   It felt as reckless as pulling the gun on Kaia but I think the "rush" was just a cover for stopping Sam from asking too many questions.  Questions like:
- Why not get Cas here?
- Let's talk to Gabriel first, he may know something.
- Why you and not me?
Dean really turned on a dime when he saw Ketch had the angel grace already bottled up.  It avoided the messy issue of "can I take some of your grace"?  They could have just as easily fed it BACK to Gabriel.  Let's not forget he NEVER trusted Ketch when he showed back up.  He was pissed at Sam for giving him a sandwich and fully intended to kill him again.  

But Dean is nothing if not a quick thinker.  I think he saw the opportunity to go into the rift and leave Sam & Cas safe in our world.  I wonder if Dean has come to the realization that he will NOT survive the death of Sam or Cas?  And he's at peace with that knowledge.  So... I think the entire "rush job" was a smoke screen to stop Sam from getting in his way.  There was no logical reason to not wait a few hours to get Cas back or to answer the questions above.  I don't think Dean is "okay".  I think Dean is wound tight and just been waiting for the opportune moment to act.  

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, SueB said:

He was pissed at Sam for giving him a sandwich and fully intended to kill him again. 

There are sentences that can only be typed in reference to SPN - this is one of them.

[catrox14]

28 minutes ago, SueB said:

Absolutely!  I was also surprised to see Jared do the same trick -- he's so tall, it's hard to have that kind of arm strength when you are that tall. 

TBF I think Jared didn't have jump that far LOL I mean he is 8 feet tall.

29 minutes ago, SueB said:

Jensen is ridiculously athletic for a guy who appears to not have played organized sport in his youth.

Jensen did play organized sports. He played baseball, basketball and I think football or wanted to play football. And he was a cheerleader so I'm pretty sure he foisted the female cheerleaders on his shoulders for cheer stunts. There are pics of him as a teen and pre-teen from his school days wherein he's wearing those respective uniforms.

[Katy M]

58 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

TBF I think Jared didn't have jump that far LOL I mean he is 8 feet tall.

And, with his long arms, it looks like once he swung down he was only a few inches from the ground.

59 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Jensen did play organized sports. He played baseball, basketball and I think football or wanted to play football. And he was a cheerleader so I'm pretty sure he foisted the female cheerleaders on his shoulders for cheer stunts. There are pics of him as a teen and pre-teen from his school days wherein he's wearing those respective uniforms.

Didn't he go to college on a baseball scholarship, or am I thinking of someone else?

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Didn't he go to college on a baseball scholarship, or am I thinking of someone else?

I think you're thinking of someone else. Jensen was going to go to school for sports medicine but then decided to go to Hollywood and try acting.

[Wynne88]

One filming choice I didn't really get was in the first scene with the girl, they kept switching back and forth from them dragging the gagged girl along, to where they're chaining her down (ungagged), then back to dragging her, and back to chaining her down.  At first, I thought there were two identical girls.  Did I miss something or was it just a weird way to show it?

Loved Dean's expressions when he was putting the post it notes on Sam's back, and smiled when Sam and Dean were in the archives, and Sam was sitting backwards in his chair the same way he does at all the cons.  Sometimes it's the little things.

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Didn't he go to college on a baseball scholarship, or am I thinking of someone else?

No, he didn't go to college on a baseball scholarship, but he did play baseball in high school--and a couple other sports too, I believe.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

One filming choice I didn't really get was in the first scene with the girl, they kept switching back and forth from them dragging the gagged girl along, to where they're chaining her down (ungagged), then back to dragging her, and back to chaining her down.  At first, I thought there were two identical girls.  Did I miss something or was it just a weird way to show it?

I noticed that, too. I think it was just a continuity error between shots. But it really stood out pretty starkly.  

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I think you're thinking of someone else. Jensen was going to go to school for sports medicine but then decided to go to Hollywood and try acting.

Sorry.  I remembered who I was thinking of.  Hard to keep all these people you don't really know straight:)

[trudysmom]

Not a bad episode, loved Dean trying to bring some levity, even pre-teen level pranks, to the bunker.  I'm interested to see what happened to and will happen with Gabriel.  Could not care less about Sister Jo and Lucifer, stay away, please, and the sooner someone stabs the Foghorn Leghorn of Hell and gets rid if him, the better.   Maybe he and Lucifer can duke it out, each on some angel's grace, and they'll both die.  Yay!  Probably too much to hope for.  Where the heck is Cas now?  

[Whodunnit]

The tentaclegod/flapper was played by Magda Apanowicz, who I believe is of polish descent? She was also in Caprica and a few other things.

[Whodunnit]

Case is going to be passed/disappointed that Dean couldn't wait 5 minutes to call backup/let people know where he was going. You know, people like Cass, Jody, Donna, etc.

Poor Gabriel didn't even get a breather/good night's sleep before he gets to stress out over what night come through that glowing gap. Basically, Dean was being very rash (and myopic in his concerns) and that never end well.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Whodunnit

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

The tentaclegod/flapper was played by Magda Apanowicz, who I believe is of polish descent? She was also in Caprica and a few other things.

Thank you! I thought I recognized her but I couldn't place. She was great in Caprica!

UO. I don't feel sorry for Gabriel. He tormented Sam by killing Dean hundreds of times and killed Dean hundreds of times.

[ahrtee]

14 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

Case is going to be passed/disappointed that Dean couldn't wait 5 minutes to call backup/let people know where he was going. You know, people like Cass, Jody, Donna, etc.

I'm pretty sure Dean knew (as we all do) that if he told people who cared about him in advance what he had in mind they'd stop him--whether directly, (by locking him in a panic room/dungeon :) ), by logic/coming up with another plan that made more sense to everyone, or by guilt, like Bobby did.   (No, I'm not implying that Sam doesn't care enough to stop him; just that, after years of overriding Sam's requests/complaints, Dean is very well practiced in *not* listening to him when he doesn't want to. )  

[gonzosgirrl]

55 minutes ago, Whodunnit said:

Case is going to be passed/disappointed that Dean couldn't wait 5 minutes to call backup/let people know where he was going. You know, people like Cass, Jody, Donna, etc.

Poor Gabriel didn't even get a breather/good night's sleep before he gets to stress out over what night come through that glowing gap. Basically, Dean was being very rash (and myopic in his concerns) and that never end well.

Sam knows, agreed, and can inform all those people if it becomes necessary. And it's not like Cas hasn't done the same thing multiple times, so he doesn't exactly have the moral high ground to get pissed. 

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam knows, agreed, and can inform all those people if it becomes necessary. And it's not like Cas hasn't done the same thing multiple times, so he doesn't exactly have the moral high ground to get pissed. 

They all get pissed at each other for running off half cocked alone.

[gonzosgirrl]

28 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

They all get pissed at each other for running off half cocked alone.

They do, sometimes rightly and sometimes not.  I'm just saying this time, Dean didn't cold-cock Sam, or trap Cas in holy fire. Sam agreed, and if either if them are really that pissed, or think he's wrong, the rift is right there. 

[Castiels Cat]

11 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I have a question for the Dean centric fans. Have his emotional ups and downs made sense for you this season??

 

At the start of the season he was depressed over the loss of Mary and Cas. I understood that. When Cas returned he perked up, which I found understandable. When they learnt Mary was alive he became maniac to the point he threatened a teen girl with a gun, which made sense to me. 

 

However, after their trip to the bad world he became mr relaxed and in relative good cheer and then in this episode he’s went back into maniac “we can’t wait, I must go now mode!” Have his emotional ups and downs between Wayward Sisters and now made sense to you? They haven’t to me, but then I’m not a big Dean fan so I could be missing nuances hence this question lol. 

He was still manic about Mary but sublimating it into eating, hunting and crazy antics. Remember in season 9 when he was MoC Dean.  He subjugated his need for violence into eating and hunting.  It has been under the surface.  See for instance the way he toyed with death by daring the mob boss to kill him or the way he just went for it in this episode.  So yeah... he is pretty much primedto say yes to Michael when all hell breaks loose.

[Castiels Cat]

11 hours ago, ahrtee said:

They probably got it from the MoL HQ, which is why there wasn't any of it left for Sam and Dean. :)  

Different spell maybe.... one from Solomon.

It is possible that the angel tablet spell is different slightly.  It is possible that the spell evil Kaia used is different, if she used one.

[Castiels Cat]

12 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I wouldn't call myself a Dean-centric fan--or any-centric fan--but I think it does make a certain amount of sense. I mean, I don't think they really smoothed it out very well, but I think Dean just got manic and impatient when there was something to do. Like with Kaia, they were standing around talking when they could've been getting to Mary. But once they ended up in The Bad Place, it was time to switch to survival mode and Mary had to go on the back burner since they had no way to get to her anyway. Then once they got back, they still didn't have a way to get to Mary. I think he was still just as motivated to get to Mary but there was nothing to be done about it until Ketch gave them the archangel grace. Then Dean's back in action mode. I actually think it's kinda Dean's standard operating procedure. 

 Yes I agree.  He buries it and transfers the angst into other things like eating and hunting and manic energy creating man caves and note writing and daring mbstwrs into killing him.

All season long he has been sending the team home and jumping into solo hunts which is pretty reckless and suicidal.

He is man on edge and primed to do a characteristic Dean Winchester reckless self sacrifice move above and beyond what we jyst saw.

I suspect he will come back from AU Apocalypse alone to find Sam in Asmodeus' grubby paws and Dean will go gonzo.... 

Dean!Michael. 

Or if he does save them he will still make a deal with Dean!Michael because the season is leading towards a royal Mexican clusterFCK and Dean will be desperate for that win.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[SueB]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They do, sometimes rightly and sometimes not.  I'm just saying this time, Dean didn't cold-cock Sam, or trap Cas in holy fire. Sam agreed, and if either if them are really that pissed, or think he's wrong, the rift is right there. 

Absolutely.  And I suspect Sam has correctly called in backup (Cas) and they can decide how to proceed.  And I think Dean at deserves a wet willy for rushing out the door.  And Dean knows he did.  He left Sam holding down the home front.   Sam can’t leave til he gets a backup plan for someone else to work the spell.  

[Lemuria]

3 hours ago, Whodunnit said:

Case is going to be passed/disappointed that Dean couldn't wait 5 minutes to call backup/let people know where he was going. You know, people like Cass, Jody, Donna, etc.

I don't see why Dean would be expected to call Jody, Donna, Claire, Alex, Garth, his electric company or the world at large.  He definitely does not want them as backup, which would put them in danger, and he has no obligation to check in with them when he makes a decision (the reverse is equally true) .  And somebody does know where he's going: Sam, who is also the only person on this side who could re-open the rift.

I don't think Dean would have taken Cas with him.  Doing so would both put Cas in potential danger--and Dean didn't want to do that any more than he wanted Sam put in danger--and it would also have endangered the mission, IMO. Yes, Cas still has certain angelic abilities that in many situations would be very useful but, for me, in AU World, they would possibly have gotten in the way:  I don't believe Cas could use his abilities without pinging Michael's radar, especially now that Michael is aware of the our universe and the possibility of a rift.  Cas is not a match for Michael.  So stealth is the way to go and Cas' being there could be the equivalent of turning on a neon sign.

[devlin]

8 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I don't see why Dean would be expected to call Jody, Donna, Claire, Alex, Garth, his electric company or the world at large.  He definitely does not want them as backup, which would put them in danger, and he has no obligation to check in with them when he makes a decision (the reverse is equally true) .  And somebody does know where he's going: Sam, who is also the only person on this side who could re-open the rift.

I don't think Dean would have taken Cas with him.  Doing so would both put Cas in potential danger--and Dean didn't want to do that any more than he wanted Sam put in danger--and it would also have endangered the mission, IMO. Yes, Cas still has certain angelic abilities that in many situations would be very useful but, for me, in AU World, they would possibly have gotten in the way:  I don't believe Cas could use his abilities without pinging Michael's radar, especially now that Michael is aware of the our universe and the possibility of a rift.  Cas is not a match for Michael.  So stealth is the way to go and Cas' being there could be the equivalent of turning on a neon sign.

I completely agree with this entire post. I couldn’t have said it better