Unpopular Opinions

[Shannon L.]

6 hours ago, slf said:

Paul Rudd has visibly aged, for pete's sake!

I agree. He's aged really well, imo, but yeah, I've always raised an eyebrow at the "Paul Rudd hasn't aged" remarks.

[vibeology]

16 hours ago, slf said:

Paul Rudd has visibly aged, for pete's sake!

Thank you! He looks great for his age, truly, but he doesn't look the same as he did in the 90s.

[proserpina65]

On ‎03‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 8:04 PM, Anduin said:

Quentin Tarantino. He may be a nice person, but I hate his movies. They just don't click with me. They do whatever the opposite of click is. Yes, even Pulp Fiction. However, they often have good music. I'll listen to the soundtrack as long as I don't have to watch the rest of it.

I was incredibly surprised when I saw Reservoir Dogs (for Tim Roth, whom I adore) and enjoyed it.  Hated Pulp Fiction, and refuse to watch any other Tarantino movies.  I did like watching him get killed in Desperado, though.

[IWantCandy71]

I have like, zero interest in seeing Endgame. I was bored by Captain Marvel, I've never seen Black Panther(though I might eventually); FFwd through Infinity after waiting until Netflix....Age of Ultron, Captain America, I rented on Redbox and turned off about one third of the way through because I was so bored...thought Ragnarok was pretty stupid.

So it's safe to say I just don't get the Marvel hype and never will. I did like the first Iron Man, thought the next one was awful and the third one was so boring, again....didn't make it all the way through. I find the characters all so bland and vanilla and just...interchangeable.

I will forever be a Hulk fan, though. Named one of my childhood pets after him. Read superhero comics and watched superhero cartoons all through my childhood. So it's not "that". It's not that I don't like superhero stories. I did like the first two Thor movies. I low key liked the first Guardians of the Galaxy but the second was lesser quality.

I think I'm just on superhero burnout, and most of these movies were never that good in the first place. But then part of it is the whole hype thing. I passed the movie theater on the way home from work and saw the crowd for what I assumed was Endgame and to me it's nothing to celebrate. I think it's obsessive and sad that other well made films get ignored for these movies.

Although I guess I'm not on complete superhero burnout because I LOVED Shazam so much I saw it multiple times. But the writing and acting in that movie actually made me love the characters, something no other Marvel movie besides Thor ( Loki) and Guardians has made me do. I would, if they were real people, walk through fire for the entire family in that movie. 

Spoiler

In either their kid or their grown up versions, especially grown up Billy/Shazam. Zachary Levi rocked it.

So maybe it's  a matter of just not liking blandness and preferring something that moves me emotionally as well as entertains me ? 

Yes, I think that's it.

Edited April 26, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[GaT]

Here's my apparently IO, I don't give a damn about Avengers: Endgame. I didn't give a damn about any of the movies leading up to it. I really hope this is the end, because I am sick of hearing about it.

[Anduin]

7 minutes ago, GaT said:

Here's my apparently IO, I don't give a damn about Avengers: Endgame. I didn't give a damn about any of the movies leading up to it. I really hope this is the end, because I am sick of hearing about it.

I have some bad news. It's the end of a chapter, not the whole book. And since it'll make a zillion dollars, it'll only encourage them further.

[IWantCandy71]

15 hours ago, GaT said:

Here's my apparently IO, I don't give a damn about Avengers: Endgame. I didn't give a damn about any of the movies leading up to it. I really hope this is the end, because I am sick of hearing about it.

What I think is sad, is that so many have to be so hateful about it. People are allowed to not care, even hate that franchise. And there are lots of reasons for feeling that way and doing just that. People are allowed to think Shazam was a far better movie than Captain Marvel, and there are LOTS of reasons for that, (I agree wholeheartedly on that one). It's not about being jealous. If I'm anything about Marvel, I'm actually at a worse state than hate: I am indifferent. I am bored by them. None of the characters move me, inspire me, entertain me. They are pretty cookie cutter and vanilla and unsurprising overall. And for me personally, I need so much more if I'm gonna plunk down my hard earned money.  If you agree with Rotten Tomatoes(I don't, as a rule), Endgame and Shazam are almost dead even in terms of critics and audience, and yet, people on Twitter and elsewhere who dare to say they liked Shazam better or think it's a better film, are being called all kinds of names by Marvel fans.

It just gives me one more reason to never spend another dime on Marvel movies and to ignore their existence. So good job, fandom. 

I agree with you, because I have been on burnout from them (even if there wasn't the mean spirited crap going on) for years now. And bottom line for me, Marvel hasn't made a  really good movie since the first Thor. Although I do like the first Guardians a lot and The Dark World holds a special place in my heart because of Loki.

Edited to add I still have to see Black Panther to at least give it a fair shake. I think it is still on Netflix for free. And in fairness, not all Marvel fans are being mean. Some openly admit to having seen and liked some DC movies and for some others, they are at least respectful to those with an opposing view. At the end of the day, there should not be such polarization because there are good and bad films from both studios. It shouldn't be a insults free for all.

Edited April 28, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[Apprentice79]

11 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

What I think is sad, is that so many have to be so hateful about it. People are allowed to not care, even hate that franchise. And there are lots of reasons for feeling that way and doing just that. People are allowed to think Shazam was a far better movie than Captain Marvel, and there are LOTS of reasons for that, (I agree wholeheartedly on that one). It's not about being jealous. If I'm anything about Marvel, I'm actually at a worse state than hate: I am indifferent. I am bored by them. None of the characters move me, inspire me, entertain me. They are pretty cookie cutter and vanilla and unsurprising overall. And for me personally, I need so much more if I'm gonna plunk down my hard earned money.  If you agree with Rotten Tomatoes(I don't, as a rule), Endgame and Shazam are almost dead even in terms of critics and audience, and yet, people on Twitter and elsewhere who dare to say they liked Shazam better or think it's a better film, are being called all kinds of names by Marvel fans.

It just gives me one more reason to never spend another dime on Marvel movies and to ignore their existence. So good job, fandom. 

I agree with you, because I have been on burnout from them (even if there wasn't the mean spirited crap going on) for years now. And bottom line for me, Marvel hasn't made a  really good movie since the first Thor. Although I do like the first Guardians a lot and The Dark World holds a special place in my heart because of Loki.

Edited to add I still have to see Black Panther to at least give it a fair shake. I think it is still on Netflix for free. And in fairness, not all Marvel fans are being mean. Some openly admit to having seen and liked some DC movies and for some others, they are at least respectful to those with an opposing view. At the end of the day, there should not be such polarization because there are good and bad films from both studios. It shouldn't be a insults free for all.

I understand your apathy regarding superheroe films. I am a Marvel fan that started out as a DC fan simply because I grew up with them.  I have liked films from both. Personally speaking I give the edge to Marvel due to it's overall optimism versus the cynicism of DC.  Furthermore, the rivalry between Marvel and DC dates back decades long before the crazy fandoms of the internet. I do think we live in such a polarizing world where if you don't believe what I believe then you should be destroyed. I tend to stay away from crazies on the internet. I enjoy a healthy debate, an exchange of ideas, but, I refuse to get into an argument over a difference of opinion. We like what we like, full stop. People are allowed to dislike a movie and others are also allowed to like it. 

[IWantCandy71]

8 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I understand your apathy regarding superheroe films. I am a Marvel fan that started out as a DC fan simply because I grew up with them.  I have liked films from both. Personally speaking I give the edge to Marvel due to it's overall optimism versus the cynicism of DC.  Furthermore, the rivalry between Marvel and DC dates back decades long before the crazy fandoms of the internet. I do think we live in such a polarizing world where if you don't believe what I believe then you should be destroyed. I tend to stay away from crazies on the internet. I enjoy a healthy debate, an exchange of ideas, but, I refuse to get into an argument over a difference of opinion. We like what we like, full stop. People are allowed to dislike a movie and others are also allowed to like it. 

I honestly think most of my apathy is that all of Marvel's movies feel the same. I have had the impression more than once, "haven't I seen this before ?" As if they take a script and scratch out names, places and other minor things, but otherwise...wash, rinse, repeat. I also see them as box office bullies, which, let's face it, they kind of are. No movie, no matter the quality, stands a chance. I can't support that sort of thing....and I won't. No movie, IMO, needs to make a billion or more dollars. And yes I realize Aquaman(which I did NOT enjoy) made that much and it's DC, but it's the exception for them. Although with some movies, they do need to make that much, because their budget is so ridiculously bloated. Movies should be entertainment, not spectacles with the budgets of a small country.

I do think Shazam was a turn in the right direction for DC because of it's light content. It's not only one of the most upbeat DC movies, it's one of the most fun superhero movies ever. Though it does have it's dark moments, as every superhero movie does.

I find personally myself that I enjoy a TV show or movie much more if I stay off the internet completely, or at least wait until whatever hype is there, has died down before I comment. You are correct-there are some crazies on the internet and it's best to avoid them. And that's on both sides of the fence. Never in the history of the internet has an argument ever been one sided.

[jah1986]

My UO is I don't love Robert Downey Jr. and Iron Man is not my favorite Avenger and I hate that he gets so much credit for the success of the MCU.

[IWantCandy71]

8 minutes ago, jah1986 said:

My UO is I don't love Robert Downey Jr. and Iron Man is not my favorite Avenger and I hate that he gets so much credit for the success of the MCU.

I used to love him. I honestly can't blame him for taking the part of Iron Man and being in the MCU universe because of the steady paycheck. I feel he used to be a serious actor though, and sadly I have a problem taking him seriously now in any non superhero role. Same with Scarlett, IMO-I used to so enjoy her in movies before MCU. And I think Hollywood feels the same. Once you are in these movies for the long haul, it's hard to get cast in anything else. It's one of the reasons Leonard Nimoy kind of regretted playing Spock in the end. Although it's not impossible to move on and play other popular non sci fi/superhero characters. William Shatner did it, and he was James T Kirk.

So maybe there's hope for RDJ down the road, we'll see.  I like him though, LOL, overall, just didn't enjoy Iron Man after the first one.

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, jah1986 said:

My UO is I don't love Robert Downey Jr. and Iron Man is not my favorite Avenger and I hate that he gets so much credit for the success of the MCU.

I think it's because he was the star of the first two movies, and has been in the most apart from SLJ. He's kind of the face or frontman of the MCU.

[KatWay]

my unpopular opinion is that while Tony Stark isn't my favourite character in the MCU, RDJ has always been the strongest dramatic actor (or the strongest actor who's not phoning it in) in these films. In these last two I thought he legit acted circles around most people, aside from a few.

[jah1986]

7 minutes ago, KatWay said:

my unpopular opinion is that while Tony Stark isn't my favourite character in the MCU, RDJ has always been the strongest dramatic actor (or the strongest actor who's not phoning it in) in these films. In these last two I thought he legit acted circles around most people, aside from a few.

I won't disagree with you about that, but I was really impressed with SJ's acting the last film, she really brought her game.

[Apprentice79]

3 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

I honestly think most of my apathy is that all of Marvel's movies feel the same. I have had the impression more than once, "haven't I seen this before ?" As if they take a script and scratch out names, places and other minor things, but otherwise...wash, rinse, repeat. I also see them as box office bullies, which, let's face it, they kind of are. No movie, no matter the quality, stands a chance. I can't support that sort of thing....and I won't. No movie, IMO, needs to make a billion or more dollars. And yes I realize Aquaman(which I did NOT enjoy) made that much and it's DC, but it's the exception for them. Although with some movies, they do need to make that much, because their budget is so ridiculously bloated. Movies should be entertainment, not spectacles with the budgets of a small country.

To be fair, Marvel nurtured their audience with movies that the fans loved, they are enjoying the fruits of their labor.  At the end of the day, movies are entertainment but it is also a business, money has to be made by all involved . I can't really hold that against a successful franchise.  Also, it is a great way for some actors to make a shitload of money while doing other movies.  Robert Redford was in a Marvel movie, how cool is that!

[IWantCandy71]

3 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

To be fair, Marvel nurtured their audience with movies that the fans loved, they are enjoying the fruits of their labor.  At the end of the day, movies are entertainment but it is also a business, money has to be made by all involved . I can't really hold that against a successful franchise.  Also, it is a great way for some actors to make a shitload of money while doing other movies.  Robert Redford was in a Marvel movie, how cool is that!

I don't think monopolizing a box office is ever something to be excused or celebrated. Especially when the majority of those movies are mediocre, some downright awful. So agree to disagree. 

[PepSinger]

11 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

I used to love him. I honestly can't blame him for taking the part of Iron Man and being in the MCU universe because of the steady paycheck. I feel he used to be a serious actor though, and sadly I have a problem taking him seriously now in any non superhero role. Same with Scarlett, IMO-I used to so enjoy her in movies before MCU.

Oh, so “serious actors” can’t be in comic book movies? I honestly thought we were done with this attitude around the time of The Dark Knight. Guess not. Scarlett and Robert are Academy Award nominees (so is Mark Ruffalo). Brie Larson is an OSCAR WINNER. Their acting is what elevates these movies and is a huge part of what makes them work. With all due respect, this says more about your mindset than it does about their talent.

As an actor, I despise the term “serious actor.” If you are doing your job well and committing to it, then you are a serious actor, genre be damned.

Edited April 30, 2019 by PepSinger

[IWantCandy71]

2 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Oh, so “serious actors” can’t be in comic book movies? I honestly thought we were done with this attitude around the time of The Dark Knight. Guess not. Scarlett and Robert are Academy Award nominees. Brie Larson is an OSCAR WINNER. Their acting is what elevates these movies and is a huge part of what makes them work.

As an actor, I despise the term “serious actor.” If you are doing your job well and committing to it, then you are a serious actor, genre be damned.

Where did I say serious actors can't take part in superhero movies? Obviously, they can and do. Benedict Cumberbatch did, and he can act circles around most of them.

My implication, and I'm sorry I wasn't more clear-is that taking part in these movies can typecast an actor so that in the future, if they wanted to take other roles, they may not be offered them. Especially after years pass and that's all they've got on their resume. "You are only as good as your last role", or so the saying goes.

No personal offense meant. 

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, IWantCandy71 said:

Where did I say serious actors can't take part in superhero movies? Obviously, they can and do. Benedict Cumberbatch did, and he can act circles around most of them.

My implication, and I'm sorry I wasn't more clear-is that taking part in these movies can typecast an actor so that in the future, if they wanted to take other roles, they may not be offered them. Especially after years pass and that's all they've got on their resume. "You are only as good as your last role", or so the saying goes.

No personal offense meant. 

Unless the movies are scheduled to be shot close together, actors go and do other stuff in between. I don't think they're just waiting for their next MCU appearance.

[IWantCandy71]

1 minute ago, Anduin said:

Unless the movies are scheduled to be shot close together, actors go and do other stuff in between. I don't think they're just waiting for their next MCU appearance.

Okay. I know RDJ did a few things in between, but nothing significant Scarlett has done lately pops into my mind (I suppose I could go look LOL but too tired to right now).  I know I loved her in Scoop and The Prestige and Matchpoint, but those were all some time ago.

[Irlandesa]

14 hours ago, jah1986 said:

My UO is I don't love Robert Downey Jr. and Iron Man is not my favorite Avenger and I hate that he gets so much credit for the success of the MCU.

I liked Iron Man 1 when I saw it.  (Have only seen that and Ant Man--superhero movies aren't my thing.)  But maybe my UO is that this applies to not only RDJ but pretty much every actor who appears in a Marvel movie.  So much of the success is due to the Marvel-ness of the movie and not the star.  That doesn't mean I don't think they likely did a good job or that they don't deserve their piece of the pie but success in a Marvel movie is not the same thing as being a box office draw.  (Looking at you Chris Pratt.  Admittedly, he's the one who annoys me the most as his success is largely due to Guardians and Jurassic).

Otherwise, I'm not at all interested in the Marvel movies but I'm actually grateful for that.  If I cared, I'd have to try to see the movie in a theater this weekend.  Probably have to sit next to a stranger.  Missed part of the movie when I had to take a bathroom break. (3 hours, was no there no intermission?)

So I'm glad people enjoyed the movie but I'm so happy this franchise never grabbed me.

[IWantCandy71]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I liked Iron Man 1 when I saw it.  (Have only seen that and Ant Man--superhero movies aren't my thing.)  But maybe my UO is that this applies to not only RDJ but pretty much every actor who appears in a Marvel movie.  So much of the success is due to the Marvel-ness of the movie and not the star.  That doesn't mean I don't think they likely did a good job or that they don't deserve their piece of the pie but success in a Marvel movie is not the same thing as being a box office draw.  (Looking at you Chris Pratt.  Admittedly, he's the one who annoys me the most as his success is largely due to Guardians and Jurassic).

Otherwise, I'm not at all interested in the Marvel movies but I'm actually grateful for that.  If I cared, I'd have to try to see the movie in a theater this weekend.  Probably have to sit next to a stranger.  Missed part of the movie when I had to take a bathroom break. (3 hours, was no there no intermission?)

So I'm glad people enjoyed the movie but I'm so happy this franchise never grabbed me.

I've actually not seen Ant Man, and I like Paul Rudd's acting, or I have in the past. For me, Samuel L Jackson more or less telling people to get some perspective, in this quote, says it all. I mean, if a man who is in Marvel movies, basically says "there's more to life(and movies) than Marvel", it sounds like he is as sick of some of the craziness as some of the rest of us are:

https://screenrant.com/samuel-l-jackson-marvel-fans-watch-movies/

Edited April 30, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[Enigma X]

Comic book movies may not be considered serious movies but the Marvel movies, just as the Marvel comics before them, tackle serious modern-day subjects. 

With that said, the way some feel about the comic, science fiction, and fantasy genres, I feel about the action (think the Fast and Furious or Diehard franchises), karate, and western genres.

[IWantCandy71]

7 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Comic book movies may not be considered serious movies but the Marvel movies, just as the Marvel comics before them, tackle serious modern-day subjects. 

With that said, the way some feel about the comic, science fiction, and fantasy genres, I feel about the action (think the Fast and Furious or Diehard franchises), karate, and western genres.

I certainly don't hate comic book movies if they are well done. But I do think my idea of well done and the popular opinion of well done around here, anyway, are different. I also think there's such a thing as overkill and burnout, and I have been at that point and past it for a long time now. I am surprised I loved Shazam as much as I did, but there it is. I am not surprised I didn't like Captain Marvel. I wanted to, but I think that movie is definitely a case of "I should have stayed offline and *maybe* I would have enjoyed it". 

Just out of curiosity, what serious subjects do you feel the current Marvel movies are actually addressing ? And by addressing, I mean doing it in depth, in great detail ? Not just mentioning and then moving on. Because I don't think there's anything wrong with a movie (of any genre) NOT addressing a serious subject. Not every movie needs to, and it's not a crime if they don't. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a popcorn movie and nothing but a few hours of mindless entertainment. Not everything has to teach a lesson to be a good film. I go to movies for an escape, if I'm being honest. I want to forget my troubles when I'm watching a movie, for the most part. And I think that is actually NOT an unpopular opinion. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[Enigma X]

I am at work and on my phone. The signal is bad and I cannot really write a long reply. I also think a fluff movie is completely fine to enjoy, but I was addressing a comment up thread about “serious actors” and “serious movies.”

These are comic book-based movies. I don’t expect them to be Schindler’s List but a quick internet search on current event issues addressed in Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and  by The Sokovia Accords will give you a some insight to what I was referring to. For a comic book movie they were in depth enough.

I am definitely okay with anyone who hates Marvel though. I just disagree (but am still okay) with the suggestion that the actors in them were not serious actors or doing serious acting or whatever. 

[IWantCandy71]

2 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I am at work and on my phone. The signal is bad and I cannot really write a long reply. I also think a fluff movie is completely fine to enjoy, but I was addressing a comment up thread about “serious actors” and “serious movies.”

These are comic book-based movies. I don’t expect them to be Schindler’s List but a quick internet search on current event issues addressed in Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and  by The Sokovia Accords will give you a some insight to what I was referring to. For a comic book movie they were in depth enough.

I am definitely okay with anyone who hates Marvel though. I just disagree (but am still okay) with the suggestion that the actors in them were not serious actors or doing serious acting or whatever. 

I actually don't hate Marvel on  the whole.  I am mostly indifferent.  I do hate the way no other movie (and in many cases, some are better movies) cannot compete at the BO.

It's not fair-but life's not fair. You get over it, and you move on. And you learn the very important lesson, if you haven't already, that BO draw just means people bought lots of tickets. Or they didn't buy any. That issue, at the end of  the day, don't mean diddly about the quality of the movie.

I watched Captain Marvel, so I'd be interested to know what serious issues were addressed, because I totally missed them. Missed Black Panther.  But I am not curious enough to go look it up. I just thought, since you brought it up that they do address serious issues, that you would be able to give me examples.

And I've already addressed the comment about serious actors and serious acting. I don't feel the need to re-clarify what I already responded to upthread. 

But it's cool. It's honestly not that important of an issue. I don't expect these kind of movies to delve into heavy duty stuff, and they usually don't, and that's okay. I'd rather they didn't, if I'm being honest. If I get a message out of it, great. If not, no big deal.

[HunterHunted]

On 4/30/2019 at 7:13 AM, IWantCandy71 said:

Just out of curiosity, what serious subjects do you feel the current Marvel movies are actually addressing ? And by addressing, I mean doing it in depth, in great detail ? Not just mentioning and then moving on. Because I don't think there's anything wrong with a movie (of any genre) NOT addressing a serious subject. Not every movie needs to, and it's not a crime if they don't. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a popcorn movie and nothing but a few hours of mindless entertainment. Not everything has to teach a lesson to be a good film. I go to movies for an escape, if I'm being honest. I want to forget my troubles when I'm watching a movie, for the most part. And I think that is actually NOT an unpopular opinion. 

Race, racism, slavery, the African diaspora, imperialism, and isolationism, but that's just Black Panther. There's been a long running exploration on the impact of trauma across almost all of the films and tv shows. There's also been a theme about parents and family. One of the long running jokes is that MCU film dads are terrible, but the moms are fine. Conversely, MCU tv moms are awful and the dads are slightly less awful. There is the theme of your actual family vs the family you make. But trauma and loss are probably the two biggest themes and subjects in the MCU, so much so that it is the thing motivating the actions for some characters for almost their entire MCU run. Some characters learn how to deal with their trauma; they grow and change and become better people because of it. Other characters never get over their trauma and the country/planet/universe suffers because of that.

The thing is that despite Zack Snyder's morose affairs, these films can be thoughtful and entertaining.

[IWantCandy71]

Okay.

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

The thing is that despite Zack Snyder's morose affairs, these films can be thoughtful and entertaining.

Don't really know who he is. I've heard his name tied to some DC films ? 

Thank you for the reply. As I've said, I'd rather they didn't bother with any serious, in depth issues. At least, not to any great degree. Maybe it's because for me, superhero movies are supposed to be a fun type of escapism.  It's not that you can't mix serious and light, it's not that a fun movie can't also teach a lesson. It can, if it's done well. In my experience though, it's rarely done well.  Shazam tried it and succeeded, but I think they are an exception to the rule.

Edited May 4, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[HunterHunted]

17 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

Don't really know who he is. I've heard his name tied to some DC films ?

Zack Snyder was the architect of the DC film universe. He had some overall approval of main casting and storylines. He also directed Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, and 2/3rds of Justice League. The casting in the DC films is really quite good with a couple of notable exceptions; Jared Leto and Jesse Eisenberg are miscast and absolutely abysmal as the Joker and Lex Luthor. However, the storylines are just trash. Obviously not all of them. I have yet to see Shazam, but Wonder Woman was good even though its 3rd act was a mess.

Quote

Thank you for the reply. As I've said, I'd rather they didn't bother with any serious, in depth issues. At least, not to any great degree. Maybe it's because for me, superhero movies are supposed to be a fun type of escapism.  It's not that you can't mix serious and light, it's not that a fun movie can't also teach a lesson. It can, if it's done well. In my experience though, it's rarely done well.  Shazam tried it and succeeded, but I think they are an exception to the rule.

I don't know that Shazam is the exception. Most of the Marvel movies manage to be fun and entertaining. They can touch on larger themes, but I wouldn't call them particularly serious. In the Marvel movies, the larger themes tend to be in service of character rather than plot. Additionally, audiences get callbacks to and the pay off for some of these themes not only in the film they are currently watching, but in multiple films down the line. This serves to give great weight and heft to characters' actions as you see them grow and change over multiple films.

I'd probably say that the most serious Marvel films are Black Panther, Infinity War, and Endgame and even those have moments of levity.

I think one of the best things that Marvel has done is allow their writers and directors to explore different film genres within the MCU. The films are all modern style action films in the Shane Black model; Shane Black would write and direct Iron Man 3. But on top of the general action film template they've been able overlay other film genres. They wanted a grand almost Shakespearean feel for the first Thor so they hired Kenneth Branaugh. It took watching a "One Marvelous Scene" video for me to realize that Joe Johnston was deliberately doing a riff on war propaganda films in Captain America: The First Avenger. Captain America: The Winter Soldier is a 70s style political thriller. Iron Man 3 is Shane Black doing a Shane Black film. Thor: Ragnarok is a bit of an homage to Flash Gordon type films. Ant-Man is a heist film. Spider-Man: Homecoming is a John Hughes-ian 80s teen comedy. The Guardians of the Galaxy films are a Ragtag Bunch of Misfits movies.

I think you're right to have been underwhelmed by Captain Marvel because it wasn't particularly good. It's not bad either; it's aggressively mediocre. Additionally, Carol has almost no character arc in the movie.

[IWantCandy71]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

 I have yet to see Shazam, but Wonder Woman was good even though its 3rd act was a mess.

I don't know that Shazam is the exception. Most of the Marvel movies manage to be fun and entertaining. They can touch on larger themes, but I wouldn't call them particularly serious. In the Marvel movies,

I think you're right to have been underwhelmed by Captain Marvel because it wasn't particularly good. It's not bad either; it's aggressively mediocre. Additionally, Carol has almost no character arc in the movie.

What I meant when I said "done well"- I meant that there has to be the right balance of dark and light, and for the right reasons. I'm well aware that Marvel can push out their brand of what they think humor is. But humor is, or should be, far more than Tony Stark's idiotic non funny one liners. 

For instance, Thor: Ragnarok should have never been borderline slapstick nonsense. I mean, it's RAGNAROK. It is a movie about doom and the possible end of the world. It  should have had a ton of emotional resonance. The scene where Odin says goodbye to his sons was one of the flattest, most unemotional pieces of cinema I've ever witnessed. It should not have been that way. The joking beforehand, and the switch right back to joking almost immediately after.....UGH. It almost repelled me physically and was probably the definitive moment I "broke up" with any remaining love for Marvel. The straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. I wish I could hate Marvel, I wish I had that kind of passion left for that franchise. I don't. I am so meh over them now, and I don't think even a Loki stand alone movie would sway me at this point.

That's what I mean when I say most superhero movies cannot do humor and lightness well. I don't think Marvel as a whole knows when to joke and when not to. The Guardians of the Galaxy movies are for me, the only instance of comedy in Marvel movies that to me strikes the right balance at the right time, for  the right reasons.. So, amended: Shazam and GotG( and I'm not the only one to compare those two worlds in terms of tone) are the two main exceptions. 

I've not seen Wonder Woman. Oddly enough, I wanted to BE her when I was a little girl, but I have no real interest in watching the movies. Some things we just grow out of, I guess. Although maybe I might bother  eventually, I don't know.

Captain Marvel was not good. So boring, But...but Brie Larson is an OSCAR winner !! Or so I've been told. As if that fact magically means the movie is good, Sorry Charlie. Nope. I can't even work up ire over it, it was that forgettable. Ben Mendelsohn though. Why isn't he in more stuff ? He and Jude Law are the standouts in an otherwise mediocre film.

Edited May 5, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[methodwriter85]

44 minutes ago, IWantCandy71 said:

For instance, Thor: Ragnarok should have never been borderline slapstick nonsense. I mean, it's RAGNAROK. It is a movie about doom and the possible end of the world. It  should have had a ton of emotional resonance. The scene where Odin says goodbye to his sons was one of the flattest, most unemotional pieces of cinema I've ever witnessed. It should not have been that way. The joking beforehand, and the switch right back to joking almost immediately after.....UGH. It almost repelled me physically and was probably the definitive moment I "broke up" with any remaining love for Marvel. The straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. I wish I could hate Marvel, I wish I had that kind of passion left for that franchise. I don't. I am so meh over them now, and I don't think even a Loki stand alone movie would sway me at this point.

You're right but the slapstick funny shtick wound up being much more popular than either of the first two films did.

[PepSinger]

16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Wonder Woman was good even though its 3rd act was a mess.

My unpopular opinion is that I don’t think the third act of Wonder Woman is a mess. Yes, I see Zach Synder’s influence in it, but just because it’s a CGI fest, which is the main complaint I have heard about it, doesn’t make it necessary bad. 

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, PepSinger said:

My unpopular opinion is that I don’t think the third act of Wonder Woman is a mess. Yes, I see Zach Synder’s influence in it, but just because it’s a CGI fest, which is the main complaint I have heard about it, doesn’t make it necessary bad. 

It's a mess because the lesson Diana needs to learn is that humans are capable of starting wars without divine intervention from Ares and that they are still worth saving. When she kills Danny Huston's character, who she thinks is Ares, and nothing changes, that's the film and the message. So all the dumb punching with Ares undercuts that message.

Edited May 5, 2019 by HunterHunted

[PepSinger]

I stand by my opinion. Not to mention her final voiceover acknowledges the darkness in humans. Again, I stand by my opinion. If anything, the lesson she’s supposed to learn is that there *is darkness in humans* and that they aren’t “just and good” like in the story her mother told her. She had to fight Ares because he wasn’t just going to go into that gentle night after she said she wouldn’t join him in his vision.

Edited May 5, 2019 by PepSinger

[IWantCandy71]

19 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

You're right but the slapstick funny shtick wound up being much more popular than either of the first two films did.

Not for me. I actually think I enjoy The Dark World the most because of the Loki and Thor dynamic. It isn't the strongest film, for sure, but I'll take it over Ragnarok any day.

Edited May 6, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[Archery]

It turns out, I love the MCU  movies and TV shows a lot. MCU fans, not so much. 

[Crs97]

I think it’s very helpful that I have never read an MCU comic book so when the movie changes things, I don’t mind.  Iron Man 3 may be one of my favorites, though I know most comic book readers hate the Mandarin reveal.  I think it’s hilarious.  But I get it - when movies are made of books I love, I am usually one of the first to complain that they don’t get them right.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I think it’s very helpful that I have never read an MCU comic book so when the movie changes things, I don’t mind.  Iron Man 3 may be one of my favorites, though I know most comic book readers hate the Mandarin reveal.  I think it’s hilarious.  But I get it - when movies are made of books I love, I am usually one of the first to complain that they don’t get them right.

I love Iron Man 3. I have read comic books, but I've never read an Iron Man book. If people can't understand that a Mandarin played straight would have been a racist catastrophe, they are being very naive and sentimental. Things have to be changed and updated.

Luke Cage no longer sounds like a Black guy as written by white guys. It's the reason M'Baku is called M'Baku in Black Panther and not Man Ape as he is in the comics. The Young Justice crew in season 3 learned that it was a mistake to use the comic accurate names for the Tornado Twins. The kludge they came up with was giving Don the nickname of Donnie because having twin characters named Dawn and Don only works when written.

Things must change in an adaptation. The Mandarin is unbelievably problematic in the original text. I cannot understand how these "purists" don't get that it's not the greatest idea to have a racist stereotype as the central villain in your film that needs to make at least $100 million in China. 

[Silver Raven]

On 4/29/2019 at 7:07 PM, IWantCandy71 said:

Okay. I know RDJ did a few things in between, but nothing significant Scarlett has done lately pops into my mind (I suppose I could go look LOL but too tired to right now).  I know I loved her in Scoop and The Prestige and Matchpoint, but those were all some time ago.

RDJ made The Judge just a couple of years ago, and that was a really good movie.  He has a whole slate of new movies coming up.  It's not like he's only doing Marvel movies.

Scarlett Johansson has been in Isle of Dogs and Ghost in the Shell recently, and has several other non-Marvel movies coming up.

Lupita Nyong'o is a very busy actress.

I don't understand the view that they only make superhero movies.

[RedMal]

I like Guardians of the galaxy 1 & 2 (especially the second) and Iron man 3. For me, those are the definite best films of the franchise. Ragnarok, Civil war and Endgame were decent too. The rest (that I've seen) range from meh to just plain bad.

I remember back in 2008 when reviews for Iron man started rolling in. Being a long time RDJ fan I was getting really hyped. But then I saw it and it was just... I had trouble seeing how it was deemed one of the greatest comic movies of all time.

For me the MCU (for which I've seen) ranks from best to worst:
1. GOTG 2
2. Iron Man 3
3. GOTG
4. Ragnarok
5. Civil War
6. Endgame
7. Avengers
8. Iron Man
9. Antman
10. Homecoming
11. Incredible Hulk
12. Age of Ultron
13. Captain America
14. Iron Man 2
15. Infinity War

Yes, I dislike Infinity the most. I can see why it's loved by fans, but I've never been as bored with this franchise before. I had this problem already with Civil War, but Infinity took it on a whole new level, where it didn't feel anymore as a movie, but more of an tv-episode.

But another unpopular opinion: X-Men is the greatest comic movie franchise and I HATE that Marvel got them back.

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I think it’s very helpful that I have never read an MCU comic book so when the movie changes things, I don’t mind.  Iron Man 3 may be one of my favorites, though I know most comic book readers hate the Mandarin reveal.  I think it’s hilarious.  But I get it - when movies are made of books I love, I am usually one of the first to complain that they don’t get them right.

It depends on how invested you are in something being told a certain way. If people can accept that the movies will change things, and often in drastic ways, then being a fan of the comic books can make it really special to sit down and watch a good comic book movie. Being outraged because "your childhood was betrayed" is so dumb, and every time I read or listen to a review that alludes to that, I stop paying attention.

After all, these movies are "fan service" in its purest sense. That's why there are so many easter eggs and direct references to the comic books. They know that fans will pick up on these things, even if the general audience misses them.

The problems come when the writers try to fit too many characters in, just to satisfy fans (both of comics, and people who become fans of characters because of the movies). They usually can't do them justice, and leave the movie feeling bloated and leave too many characters with less than a handful of lines. Infinity War was the most obvious recent example, and X-Men 3 an older one.

[kiddo82]

I prefer the Guardians in movies like Infinity War and End Game to their own movies.  I think of little of them goes a long way.  My UO would be that I don't rank either Guardians movie particularly high.  That and I don't rank Age of Ultron as low as most people.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Sorry, Adam Sandler apologists, but I've come to hate The Wedding Singer.

I think Robbie Hart is just another run of the mill Adam Sandler character we're supposed to think is wonderful and sympathetic, but isn't. Yeah, getting jilted at the altar sucks, but he's a grown-ass man who lives in his sister's basement, has no plans to move out, has no prospects, no career plan, has the audacity to want a wife and kids in spite of all this, he's temperamental, immature, and worst of all? He encouraged a 13-year-old to grope Julia!

Yeah, that's another UO I have: I didn't find the scene of Julia giving that kid a pity dance (yeah, pity dances, aren't those the best?!) and the kid feeling up her ass cute. It was gross as hell, and it basically says that, yeah, boys, go ahead and touch women wherever! They don't mind! That kid is already a young old pervert. I don't care if he is just 13, Julia should have slapped him (and then Robbie).

[IWantCandy71]

13 hours ago, Archery said:

It turns out, I love the MCU  movies and TV shows a lot. MCU fans, not so much. 

Some of them did a good job of killing any possible love I might have had for Captain Marvel. It's a mediocre film *at best*, and I might have come to that conclusion on my own anyway. But yeah, internet nonsense ruined it for me before I ever stepped foot into the theater. I still tried to, and found, something to enjoy in It, (because that's what I do), but it's a shame some folks just have to be like THAT over a movie. Or the actress. 

Newsflash to anyone still wondering : just because a man hates Captain Marvel doesn't mean they are sexist. Just because anyone hated the film doesn't mean they are jealous of Brie Larson. Some of the stuff I have been reading, GOOD grief LOL, it's so sad and grasping.

I will say though-the whole "real Captain Marvel" in terms of her character and Zachary Levi's-that particular issue is so juvenile. Yes, his movie is the better one and his character is far more developed and interesting. But he's not the "real" Captain Marvel anymore, people. Please stop with that, thank you.

[IWantCandy71]

11 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

RDJ made The Judge just a couple of years ago, and that was a really good movie.  He has a whole slate of new movies coming up.  It's not like he's only doing Marvel movies.

Scarlett Johansson has been in Isle of Dogs and Ghost in the Shell recently, and has several other non-Marvel movies coming up.

Lupita Nyong'o is a very busy actress.

I don't understand the view that they only make superhero movies.

I never said they only make superhero movies.

[IWantCandy71]

10 hours ago, RedMal said:

Yes, I dislike Infinity the most. I can see why it's loved by fans, but I've never been as bored with this franchise before. I had this problem already with Civil War, but Infinity took it on a whole new level, where it didn't feel anymore as a movie, but more of an tv-episode.

But another unpopular opinion: X-Men is the greatest comic movie franchise and I HATE that Marvel got them back.

Infiinity War wasn't a movie. Infinity War was a spectacle. I waited until Netflix before even bothering, and it took me about twenty minutes to watch because I kept FFwdng through it. That's one reason I will likely never bother with Endgame or anything else. Someone else said once that Marvel doesn't make films-they make products. I would not have said that during the first Iron Man days, or even the first Thor. 

But now ? Yep. Totally agree. 

X-Men is another franchise that is tired. I used to love them and I will likely see Dark Phoenix, because one of my nieces has been begging me for months to take her. But I do think this is the last one for James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender and in fact, most of the current cast ? I think the next movie will be all new people if I am understanding it correctly ? If so, this will be my last time for them as well. And I'm not saying definitively that there can't or wont be any more good X Men movies, or even Marvel movies. I am just saying that I'm tired of them, or have given them so many chances and they keep disappointing me and I'm tired of being disappointed.

I think that's one reason I enjoyed Shazam so much. It's something new and fresh and different and not really like other superhero movies. It has the heart that so many of them have been missing for so many years. If the new X Men has that reputation, I might check it out, but I feel Marvel is just going to "spectacle" them, just like they do everything. It's so frustrating.

Edited May 6, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[Silver Raven]

2 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

I never said they only make superhero movies.

"Okay. I know RDJ did a few things in between, but nothing significant Scarlett has done lately pops into my mind (I suppose I could go look LOL but too tired to right now).  I know I loved her in Scoop and The Prestige and Matchpoint, but those were all some time ago."

[IWantCandy71]

4 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

"Okay. I know RDJ did a few things in between, but nothing significant Scarlett has done lately pops into my mind (I suppose I could go look LOL but too tired to right now).  I know I loved her in Scoop and The Prestige and Matchpoint, but those were all some time ago."

Exactly. I quoted movies Scarlett has done, that I watched, and I said I knew RDJ had done other things. I never said anywhere, that they'd only done superhero movies. I brought up the subject, because oftentimes, being involved in franchises like this, can get you typecast and it can be hard to get other roles. 

[Raja]

16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I love Iron Man 3. I have read comic books, but I've never read an Iron Man book. If people can't understand that a Mandarin played straight would have been a racist catastrophe, they are being very naive and sentimental. Things have to be changed and updated.

Luke Cage no longer sounds like a Black guy as written by white guys. It's the reason M'Baku is called M'Baku in Black Panther and not Man Ape as he is in the comics. The Young Justice crew in season 3 learned that it was a mistake to use the comic accurate names for the Tornado Twins. The kludge they came up with was giving Don the nickname of Donnie because having twin characters named Dawn and Don only works when written.

Things must change in an adaptation. The Mandarin is unbelievably problematic in the original text. I cannot understand how these "purists" don't get that it's not the greatest idea to have a racist stereotype as the central villain in your film that needs to make at least $100 million in China. 

I am on one of the purist boards but my personal comic reading up to the late 70s left me not knowing the source MCU materials except for the hero origins and part of the Iron Man 2 story.

According to them the more recent reboots of the Mandarin made what they saw as a politically correct, for the west and China, version available for an Iron Man movie.

[kiddo82]

9 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

Infiinity War wasn't a movie. Infinity War was a spectacle.

Not trying to be a jerk but I don't really see how that's inherently a bad thing.  No one is obliged to like anything and if folks don't like it then that's cool.  For me?  Spectacle the hell out of it.  You have blue aliens, and green aliens, and men who wear suits of armor that can pretty much do anything they will.  You have a tree and a talking raccoon and country that is full of what is supposedly the most valuable and versatile element on earth that can be used for almost anything.  And wizards.  Don't forget the wizards.  For better or worse I feel like you sign up for a spectacle the second you buy a ticket or push play.  I personally would have been disappointed with anything less.

Edited May 7, 2019 by kiddo82