Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[way2interested]

27 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

JH was fine in the sarcastic big sister role. That's about it. She can't do drama or rage or comedy or really anything other, IMO.

That's a good description of it. I do remember laughing when she yelled at Cisco for laughing during the crossover, so that type of comedy with her character I think kind of works, to throw her a bone.

[SmallScreenDiva]

On 3/7/2018 at 6:15 PM, way2interested said:

That's a good description of it. I do remember laughing when she yelled at Cisco for laughing during the crossover, so that type of comedy with her character I think kind of works, to throw her a bone.

God, that line delivery of "why are you laughing" is quite possibly one of the worst during that crossover. It was over the top ridiculous.

----

A thought that occurred to me in the shower (so you know it's totally cray-cray) what if what unites OTA and the asshats is a death among the newbies? Say, Curtis? He keeps mentioning being single and I can see Arrow doing an episode where he finally gets to go out on a date and then killing him off. Send Rene away permanently (make him injured but still able to take care of Zoe) and Not Team Arrow is down to just the bird. I don't see her going away given how much push she got this season. 

[BkWurm1]

I can't see them killing Mr. Terrrific.  Even if he's not so terrific.  

[Angel12d]

If anyone is getting killed off this season I feel like it might be Quentin. And that'll be just because BS is around. ?

[Starfish35]

Yeah I think this might very well be Quentin's last season.

[ohjoy]

My concern is that, despite all the nonsensical team drama, we'll end up losing all the non-mask  players I actually like (Quentin, Thea, even Alena, etc.) and be stuck with the mask characters I never want to see again (aka N., T., and A.).

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, garnetarden said:

My concern is that, despite all the nonsensical team drama, we'll end up losing all the non-mask  players I actually like (Quentin, Thea, even Alena, etc.) and be stuck with the mask characters I never want to see again (aka N., T., and A.).

I despair that this is exactly what’s gonna happen. 

[lemotomato]

If Quentin dying means all the Lances are done for good on Arrow, it's a sacrifice I'd gladly accept. 

[DeadZeus]

Even though the action has gotten better since S4 (Thank God!)

I'm still waiting for a scene that will beat this one:

 

I sometimes just randomly watch this scene cuz it satisfies me but it also annoys me they never even came close to topping this.

Oliver is pissed but focused, and can handle these guys Solo pretty well. Having a team near him constantly made him soft IMO. 

I mean just look at this scene. It's also pretty long! Any recent fightscene would have already ended after the first encounter... But this one keeps going. And the music is on point!

I'm just waiting for a scene to top this one... Solo or not Solo.

They have made several claimes in S5 or S6 teasing the action of the upcoming episode is great and one of the most brutal yet. But again, it never even came close to this one.

Think there is a chance we will ever get a fight scene of this caliber?

[Angel12d]

IDK if I agree that having a team made Oliver soft. I think having a massive team of masks sometimes takes focus away from Oliver. Back in S1 he had great fight/stunt scenes because they only had to focus on him and later Diggle. Now we have to give scenes to all the other masks so they all get their moments to shine. I don't think that makes Oliver soft but I do think it detracts from showcasing his skills as a hero. It's one of my main issues tbh and why I think the show needs a massive cull of all the masks, which in turn might help with the fight scenes. 

[way2interested]

Yeah, it's really only when they have multiple people that the fight scenes decrease in quality. Arrow has still has some good fight scenes with minimum amount of people (310 had a good one with Roy and Diggle, the 407 fight with Thea and Andy, 509 with Oliver in the flashbacks, Slade at the end on 605, even in 618 with the opening fight even though I wish it had a bit more light). With fewer people in a scene it increases the stakes, but it's not the characters per se that decrease the quality, more like the logistics in having a ton of good guys fighting in a scene together. They have this problem in the crossovers as well (also one of the reasons why the first main crossover was so fun to watch and one of the reasons why the only fight scene other wise I remember from any crossover is--weirdly enough-- from the s5 crossover when Oliver had to fight Sara one on one).

[DeadZeus]

Well i'm not saying there have been any good scenes. Just saying there hasn't been any that top the one i posted. It's just so good. But 4 seasons of not a single scene that can top this? Pretty dissapointing.

[way2interested]

9 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

Just saying there hasn't been any that top the one i posted. It's just so good. But 4 seasons of not a single scene that can top this? Pretty dissapointing.

I mean, that's your opinion? IMO Slade's fight scene in 605 was better shot/choreographed/lit than this one.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I just miss seeing Oliver/Stephen working out on the salmon ladder and just working out, so I we can see all those muscles flexing and clenching and...

What?

[BkWurm1]

Best fight of the season IMO still goes to Diggle in and around the limo.   For shear creativity it beats just about anything.   

I do miss simple scenes of Oliver parkouring up the side of a building.   Action doesn’t have to be fights.  

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Best fight of the season IMO still goes to Diggle in and around the limo.   For shear creativity it beats just about anything.   

I do miss simple scenes of Oliver parkouring up the side of a building.   Action doesn’t have to be fights.  

Thumbs up on both. I still remember Oliver scaling up a building at the very beginning of the show. It was amazing. And in daylight, which has been in short supply. And Dig's fight came to mind straight off the bat as well. Particularly because I don't usually remember fights in which I don't feel an emotional stake between the players, but even though there was nothing personal going on between Dig and the woman he was fighting, that one stuck with me.

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, Nogoodnamesleft said:

Maybe Sara isn't coming back for Daddy maybe plan D or E is hiding Felicity and William some where in time instead of some place

Just spitballing here. If Arrow wants to keep William around but want to get rid of the actor, one way they could do it is to age him up drastically. What if Felicity and William go on the Waverider and somehow William gets stuck in a time period for a number of years? When Felicity and the crew finally get him back, he's about 18 or 19. That would give Arrow a chance to start him on some training and get rid of a poor actor. That would also provide a different dynamic with both Oliver and Felicity.

I don't exactly want this to happen and I don't see it happening, but it's kinda fun to think about it :P

[Mellowyellow]

I want an Olicitot *wails*

I know many don't but the show has been f@cked up heaps by the worthless, filthy, sewerage equivalent N00bs I don't see how adding a baby can ruin it! They can always write it to be with Raisa and have a throwaway line about what they did with the baby today etc

It's not like much of S6 made sense anyway! GIVE ME MY OLICITOT!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[tv echo]

Here are the only things that I've been happy about this season so far...

• Oliver is (mostly) back to being a badass fighter.
• Oliver & Felicity got married (even though the wedding happened on another show).
• William became a tolerable and even welcome part of Oliver's little family unit.
• MG didn't include another 'topical' episode this season.

Other than that, the show has managed to make the newbies (Curtis, Rene, Dinah) completely unlikeable, forced Diggle to act out of character and given us an underwhelming Big Bad (Diaz) who's not that scary.

Here's hoping that the season at least ends strong.

Edited May 3, 2018 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I have the feeling that the Bitterness Thread is going to get a lot of action this hiatus.  But if you were Beth, how would you try to fix this mess?

I'd be desperately trying to walk back Oliver outing himself as the Green Arrow.  Maybe saying it was a plan with the FBI to take down the corruption in Star City. It's lame and people will still tune in to hear Alex Jones say they're lying  and he'll never be able to run for mayor again (maybe Curtis or Rene could take over the job since there's such a high death rate) but at least Felicity and William wouldn't have the targets on their backs.

I would also try to wrap up Diaz within the first episode, two at most.  Okay, he has to be there to introduce the Longbow Hunters who are next season's Big Bad (hopefully they won't be as lame as Diaz) but then get rid of Mumbles.  I would also get rid of either Rene (who decides his daughter's safety is more important) or Curtis, preferably both.  Black Canary is on the show to stay so she can't do anything about that but make her a secondary character.  There are too many vigilantes, especially since Colton is returning.  There is no way they can write for eight people on the team.

She also has to figure out something to do with Black Siren since she's a regular on the show next season.  I don't buy the redemption and it's too much to have both BC and BS on Team Arrow so I've got nothing there.

[Chaser]

If I was Beth...

The Longbow Hunters wouldn't be the Big Bads.  Diaz/Longbow Hunters would be an arc for NTA/BS while Oliver is in prison. Arc ends in Diaz's and Curtis' deaths and BS being shipped back to the Hellmouth permanently.

Felicity/Diggle/Roy would be working to get Oliver out of prison during this time. There would be so much Felicity/Roy/Diggle bonding. Then so much Olicity when he gets out.

I would keep the Team split as much as possible. OTA/Roy with the occasional appearance by Rene and Dinah.

I don't want Oliver's ID out there but I can't think of away to walk it back that isn't more stupid. So I honestly have no idea what I would do there.

[Mellowyellow]

I think they need to keep BS though so they can't ship her off. There seems to be a limit with what they can do with her so they will need to keep the cretin around if they get renewed again. One thing I am not too mad at them for is all the BS stuff because I feel like they are forced with the cockroach of Arrowverse so there's not much they can do.

[Chaser]

WH was listed as series regular last season but only ended up with a handful of episodes. KP said there was no set episode count for a series regular.

I'm hoping they count KC's S6 count by 3/4 to wrap up BS.

Cause I need it.

[scarynikki12]

They don’t have to keep Black Siren they have to keep Cassidy. I say kill off BS and bring back SirenX to continue her revenge quest. 

[statsgirl]

BlackSirenX would be a better choice than this terrible plot to redeem BS.  I don't understand why they need to keep KC though.  If they can lose Josh S and Susanna Thompson, why is she still there?

I'm hoping that Oliver giving Diggle a GA suit is a way to show that GA still exists even though Oliver is in prison.

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

The Longbow Hunters wouldn't be the Big Bads.  Diaz/Longbow Hunters would be an arc for NTA/BS while Oliver is in prison. Arc ends in Diaz's and Curtis' deaths and BS being shipped back to the Hellmouth permanently.

Felicity/Diggle/Roy would be working to get Oliver out of prison during this time. There would be so much Felicity/Roy/Diggle bonding. Then so much Olicity when he gets out.

I don't know enough about the Longbow Hunters to say whether they would be a good Big Bad or not. But Diaz has to GO.

I don't want to drop Olicity because it's a great ship but Oliver needs to suffer for what he did.  Felicity left him in s4 saying that he isn't going to change, that in the end he will always make the decision himself and leave her out of it. And she was right.

[way2interested]

Just now, statsgirl said:

I don't want to drop Olicity because it's a great ship but Oliver needs to suffer for what he did.

Ha, well he is going to prison for at least 6 months with people who hate his guts.

[Chaser]

I’m annoyed with Oliver keeping it from Felicity. It’s so dumb.

But I’m going to ignore it cause I think it was all about just setting that last scene between Olicity. MG and WM are a crappy writing team. 

[statsgirl]

22 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Ha, well he is going to prison for at least 6 months with people who hate his guts.

I doubt it will have an effect he's just going to add that to his Burden To Bear, as he always does.

I need enlightenment and retribution with respect to how he treats Felicity in these situations.

Edited May 18, 2018 by statsgirl

[way2interested]

Just now, statsgirl said:

I doubt it will have an effect he's just going to add that to his Burden To Bear, as he always does.

I need enlightenment and retribution with respect to how he treats Felicity in these situations

Idk, even if he does, does prison not count as suffering? You asked about him suffering not him learning something. He literally just gave up the one thing he admitted to wanting (a life after being the GA) at the end of all of this to help save the city and help the people he cares about, and he's now never going to have the relationship he wanted with his wife and son again (in his mind, and even then still for at least 6 months). He'll have to constantly live with the idea that something could happen to him or to her and they can't do anything about it. He is suffering for this.

If we are talking about him learning something, I honestly don't know what much else to do to get retribution for this other than talking about it with Felicity come 7a. They'll already be separated for 6 months, he could say something about it afterwards? There's not much "punishment" Oliver can have at this point unless they actually wanted them to get divorced or something. Oliver made a dumb decision, he's getting severe consequences for it, and he and Felicity have to talk about it.

[statsgirl]

12 minutes ago, way2interested said:

If we are talking about him learning something, I honestly don't know what much else to do to get retribution for this other than talking about it with Felicity come 7a.

But that's what they always do .... and then he does the same thing over again.  It's wash, rinse, repeat.  The guy has a flat learning curve.

I want the show to do something to stop it. Yes, talk to Felicity but then let me know me that it's never going to happen again.  (Other than MG leaving, that is.) I don't know what, but something like Oliver signing a document that Felicity can leave him and take William if he ever does this again.

[way2interested]

Just now, statsgirl said:

Yes, talk to Felicity but then let me know me that it's never going to happen again.  (Other than MG leaving, that is.) I don't know what, but something like Oliver signing a document that Felicity can leave him and take William if he ever does this again.

That's my whole point. I don't know what else either they can do other than them just saying he won't do it again. Hilarious situation aside, talking's really the only solution. "Doing something like" is kind of too vague. Literally the only thing they can do to stop it is just never doing it again, which even if they did wouldn't be "doing something," until people see it in hindsight.

[tangerine95]

I think the most the can do really is have Felicity angry for an episode.Like it comes up months after when he gets released because she bottled up her feelings to focus on William and they argue about it with Oliver apologizing.Because it really was a repeat of him keeping her out again which is exactly what she broke up with him in season 4 over.And yeah I've see pretty good interpretations of that saying that he didn't do it because he knew she would talk him out of it but still it's not a good enough excuse at all.

But imo it was totally plot related to set up what they needed and as always plot goes before characters and I'm pretty sure if MG was sticking around he wouldn't have pointed out or realized that Felicity has a right to be mad but now someone else has to deal with it so he does.

Edited May 18, 2018 by tangerine95

[Trini]

Well, there's a lovely Dr. Finkel in Central City with some superhero couples counseling experience. ?

But I wanted to ask how much do people think the new showrunners are committed to Oliver's new family unit? I don't think they want to renege on that, but on the other hand, the season's cliffhanger seems like a good opportunity to send William to be with his grandparents. William could be offscreen for a while, depending on if they want to focus on Oliver/Felicity rebuilding their trust and how long that takes.

[Genki]

I really do want Oliver to deal with his unilateral decision making. I'm not sure how, because I agree with @way2interested, Oliver is already suffering the consequences of the decision and unlike NTA Felicity isn't spiteful, so she is not going to snub protective custody for herself and William to make a point to Oliver. It would be cool if she was getting some training from ARGUS, but somehow I doubt it would happen.

Felicity out in the field however, does seems to be the easiest way to make Oliver understand her point of view. They did it in 6.22 (and to lesser extent 6.4 & 5.19 although they weren't together those 2 episodes), but since they continue regressing Oliver maybe they need to hit him over the head with this lesson again and again. 

Spoiler

If they do make Felicity preggers next season, even to illustrate the point.

 

I think I'm more annoyed over Oliver outing himself than the deal with the FBI. That deal is easy for the writers to walk back from, Oliver could be on a mission for them, they could even write in Roy or  The Huntress or Slade as an ally, like @Chaser said OTA could be working to get Oliver out, IDK but there are story possibilities for it, I just don't understand the point of the confessing to being the Green Arrow to the media, it just seems so limiting story-wise.

The reason the Secret identity reveal worked on something like Ironman (besides the fact that they are movies and not episodic TV) was because Tony Stark was, a) rich and that afforded him level of protection, b) he wasn't tied to "protecting a city", c) he was not locked up in "Super-Max" and d) he didn't have a family who would face the initial consequences of his reveal. 

They probably won't show the consequences for Felicity or William since they are apparently, currently in ARGUS protective custody until Diaz is caught.  But I hope there is some sort of focus where Oliver has to face what he did to his family for some pretty ungrateful unworthy, petty people (both NTA and Star City). Seriously the whole fucking city was corrupt and so easily bought or turned against Oliver.

Now that the secret identity is out, and when he is out of jail, Oliver will be obliged to continually fight for Star City over every. little. threat. Initially they will be burdened with more idiots trying to take over Star City, but then there would be the ones that would want to go up against the Green Arrow to "prove" themselves. Maybe this is leading to a Batmanesque ending where the Queen Family/The Green Arrow "die" so they can finally have some time for themselves and not be burdened with saving Star City all the freaking time.

Regardless, there will have to be a time where vigilantes are legitimised and probably lead to some sort of Justice League situation, which can be spun off when Arrow ends. I mean what other reason can there be for the eleventy-billion vigilantes/screechers that seem to be hanging around on Arrow. The season finale was a great time to kill some of them off, but no we had another decent Actor/character sacrificed at the alter of Yanny. Seriously KC's better acting was brought out by PB (not to mention Wild Dong's better/more tolerable moments were with Quentin). Who's going to be sacrificed now to keep KC?

All in all 6.23 was not a good for Arrow and I hope Beth and the new team find a way to write themselves out of the mess left behind by Guggie and also find a way to write more for the characters rather than plot. I'm not sure how many episodes grace I can give before deciding to give up Arrow completely. 

[/Delurk]

[JamieLynn832002]

I really think the only way to fully recover from the damage the finale did to Oliver and his relationships with Felicity and William is to reveal that they actually were in on the plan but for some reason had to pretend they weren't. I'm not sure how that would work since they were still acting clueless after Felicity scrambled the camera in the interrogation room but it just doesn't make sense that Oliver went from apologizing for not looping Felicity in about Human Target when he literally couldn't tell her to deciding signing his life, and to a certain extent their lives, away without the slightest heads-up was a viable option in a single episode.

Edited May 19, 2018 by JamieLynn832002

[Mary0360]

I'm not happy with Oliver's decision in the finale and if Oliver were acting in character he would have probably told Felicity when she confronted him, but at the same time I really don't equate that moment as being equal or worst then his decision to keep William secret in season 4 because to me the motives are very different. He kept William a secret mainly for selfish reasons that he tried justify as being selfless where as while he made a unilateral decision that again affect Felicity's life in a life alternating way, I think in this case it was made with the intention of being for those he loved and cared about over himself. The guy is going to jail, giving up his freedom and potentially putting his life at risk by being in caged  with people he put away and likely looking for pay back. I don't think it was a decision made lightly or with the intention of disrespecting or hurting Felicity. And in this case I do believe that the stakes made it a little difficult for Oliver to drop that bombshell and that Oliver probably also knew that if he told Felicity she would talk him out of what was basically a done deal. 

 

So I do think it should be addressed and Felicity should be allowed to voice her feelings and anger over it and that Oliver should probably do a little apologising and grovelling with flowers, jewellery and hot sex to his wife. But I don't think that he deserves to be feathered and tarred for this or that this should be treated as relationship defining to the point of creating further separation for Olicity. Nor do I see it as particularly in character for Felicity to see this as unforgivable and not understand some of Oliver's reasoning and sacrifice despite being rightfully angry. 

 

To me this was more a case of plot pushing the story story at the cost of characterisation.

 

Selfishly for me I would much prefer this resolved with one open honest and mature conversation between Oliver and Felicity rather then being exaggerated into manufactured drama next season. I'm totally okay with the writers wrapping it up quickly if it can avoid a redux of season 5 Olicity and gets us back to mature loving family making Olicity of season 6. 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Mary0360

[JamieLynn832002]

I think a lot of my problem comes from the fact he didn't tell her until he was being cuffed. He had to know when he was being arrested, even a minute 's warning would have been nice. I guess he may have planned to but the Lance situation complicated things. And also that this is the villain that drove Oliver to this point, not I just really want to murder your loved ones Slade,  not earthquake the city Merlyn, not even nuke the world Darhk but 3D printing Diaz. It just feels so unearned.

[Mary0360]

1 minute ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

I think a lot of my problem comes from the fact he didn't tell her until he was being cuffed. He had to know when he was being arrested, even a minute 's warning would have been nice. I guess he may have planned to but the Lance situation complicated things. And also that this is the villain that drove Oliver to this point, not I just really want to murder your loved ones Slade,  not earthquake the city Merlyn, not even nuke the world Darhk but 3D printing Diaz. It just feels so unearned.

Agree about the villains, but Slade Merlyn Prometheus and Damien didn't need the added help of the FBI and prison to sell them as being scary because they were genuinely intimidating where as Diaz sucks....... and so does Kirk. 

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, Genki said:

[/Delurk]

You should delurk more often! 

[statsgirl]

I really really hope they cut some of the mask&costume dead wood.

In season 1, there was Olive and Diggle in masks (balaclava in Dig's case), against Moira, Walter, Thea, Roy Tommy, Laurel Quentin and Felicity as ordinary people.  

Going into season 7, in masks there is Oliver, Diggle, Roy, Rene, Curtis, Dinah and LL2 in masks & costumes against only Felicity not in one and even she is part of Team Arrow.  There are no regulars or even more-than-barely-recurring (like the doctor, Raisa or Loring) who are not masked and/or not part of Team Arrow. I guess maybe William, who young and Lyla who is ARGUS.

It's ridiculous.

[tennisgurl]

I just want Diaz to be gone from this show. Like, gone forever and ever, never to be spoken of again. I hate NTA, but I know we`ll be stuck with them, and I can usually ignore them,, but I just cannot imagine another season with this loser as the Big Bad, or even the power behind the new Big Bad. Literally anyone would be a better choice. Random Mook number 5 would be a bigger Big Bad. Earth X Beebo would be a better villain. The exploded entrails of Malcolm Merlyn would be a better big bad! I just hate this guy (and not the way your supposed to hate a villain), and I pray that they ditch him as soon as possible next season. I just cant imagine having to spend another season considering this asshole a credible threat.

[JamieLynn832002]

I can't imagine it either. I'd fully support Season 7 opening with a casual aside that Diaz died off screen during the hiatus. I wouldn't even need an explanation just "Diaz is dead." Come on show, you did plenty of handwaving of what happened during the last hiatus, give me this! 

[Starfish35]

Do a “Luke with the lightsaber in TLJ” moment with him at the very beginning of S7. (Diaz being the lightsaber in this scenario.)

Edited May 21, 2018 by Starfish35

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Do a “Luke with the lightsaber in TLJ” moment with him at the very beginning of S7.

Lol, I hated TLJ and I would second this.

[BkWurm1]

As much as we might wish for KA's mumble mouth and Diaz to go away, I think it's wishful thinking.  I suspect they locked him down for seven before the season six ever ended.  

So I feel we HAVE to somehow fix Diaz.

So is there anything the show can do at this point to make him serviceable as the villain?  I'm never going to like him but can they change how they write him so that he no longer is undermining the other storylines the show tries to build off of him?  Because I think that's why Oliver sacrificing himself failed to work.  If Diaz was the threat they tried to sell, then I can be forgiving of a desperate Oliver doing whatever it takes to keep his family and the rest alive.  But if Diaz is just this thug that has gotten lucky because the team was in shambles, then Oliver sold out his family for no good reason.  

Again ideally would be to kill him off quickly but if they didn't dump him after the backlash of 6, then I suspect they are in too deep with contracts and the like.  So the best I think we can hope for is him being minimized. 

I figure while they deal with Oliver getting out of prison, this will already naturally happen.  They might not even have him in most of the early season episodes, maybe just enough to stick his head out so BS has a new lead or something (since that seems to be her storyline) and maybe to trigger the Long Bow Hunters however that is going to work, but that's only delaying his return.

What can the show do to make him actually menacing?  I can't really think of anything.  Part of that is because I don't WANT to fix him.  I'd rather he continue to be a great big failure.  That's the emotional part of me.  The logical part again reminds me that the rest of what the show will try to sell will fail if Diaz keeps failing but right now I have a block as to what could be done to make him more tolerable.  Any suggestions?

[JamieLynn832002]

I honestly have no idea how they'd make him menacing. Partially because I too want him to fail but also because any time he opens his mouth I'm generally too busy trying to figure what the hell he's saying to be appropriately menaced.

[Genki]

I wonder if they are trying to fix the issues that they have had with the Seasonal Big Bads by leaving Diaz to be resolved (preferably killed), in the first part of season 7? I guess this could allow for a later build and reveal of the main antagonist (Long-bow Hunters?), honestly it make no sense to me, why they kept such failure of a Villian. To tell the truth I skipped pretty much all the big Diaz episodes and fast-forwarded most of his screen time, I was just so uninterested. 

I would not be annoyed if they did the season in 3 mini-arcs with a different big bad each arc. 

I will find it ridiculous enraging if  any of NTA or BS manage to take Diaz out without Oliver's help. Especially since this past season seems like it was one big failure for Oliver, (totally due to Plot), and it's just depressing. The N00bs better be failing all over the place, in general, while Oliver is locked up, Felicity is in protective custody and Diggle is at ARGUS, so then when Oliver does come back THEY can apologies to HIM! And Felicity!!!

[bijoux]

And Rene can start calling her Ms Smoak. I’m not usually one who notices his blondies much, but it grated in the finale.

[apinknightmare]

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So is there anything the show can do at this point to make him serviceable as the villain? 

I think the only thing he had going for him in terms of being intimidating or scary was the far reach he'd managed to have once he spread his corruption throughout the city. Without that, he's pretty much a VotW. Unless they have him retake control of the city in some kind of ridiculous fashion (and in the process making Oliver's stupid deal with the FBI even more stupid), I don't really think there's much to be done. He's just some idiot mobster who's isolated and out of power. I'm guessing he's just sticking around to give Felicity and William an excuse to still be in ARGUS custody to jump-start whatever's going on with the Queen family next season, and to give Black Siren someone to go after in order to get revenge for Daddy. 

[statsgirl]

I assume that they need him to set up the Longbow Hunters.  So we're stuck with him, hopefully not for too long though.

The show can't redeem him for me.   I find coldly menacing more frightening than psychopath-who-blows-up-because-he-can't-have-his-toddler-way.  They really blew it with his backstory because instead of making him more frightening, it just made him less interesting and less impressive.  He's a crazy guy who holds grudges. Big deal.

5 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I think the only thing he had going for him in terms of being intimidating or scary was the far reach he'd managed to have once he spread his corruption throughout the city. Without that, he's pretty much a VotW. Unless they have him retake control of the city in some kind of ridiculous fashion (and in the process making Oliver's stupid deal with the FBI even more stupid), I don't really think there's much to be done. He's just some idiot mobster who's isolated and out of power.

There's not time to build up the kind of power he had before.  Not that there was time before.

I think the only thing they can do with him at this point is to make him a wild card, he's so crazy you never know what he's going to do.  But he'll never have my respect as a villain.