Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[BkWurm1]

14 minutes ago, jaye.elle said:

I did hear that and cross my fingers. I have no issue with Felicity going to jail but I don't want her to be there over winter (for me) hiatus. 5 months is way too long!

From watching the show I don't get any vibes at this point about Felicity getting arrested, they seemed to have picked up that dangling thread and already used it BUT as I've noted for the last two seasons,  we've had Oliver leave and Diggle leave and even Oliver AND Felicity leave at the end of a season but Felicity alone has never been the one to leave at the end of the season so one of these years it seems likely she will.

At this point I can't see Felicity ever leaving of her free will but there could be a forced separation and at this point, jail would be as good as any reason. Oliver got out on bail so if it was just a normal arrest for Felicity, I'd think they'd manage to have her out awaiting her fate even if the season ended on a cliffhanger,  but they could if they wanted to be cruel have her swept up by some other covert agency like ARGUS (cause no way Lyla would do it and find any peace at home) and just go missing.  Dun dun DUN!

That said, it feels like this season is already overcrowded with plot points that need resolution so there just might not be time.  I still get the vibe that Oliver will get found not guilty of being the GA and the Arrow and THEN he will just tell everyone the truth which I also still think would be really dumb but that's the "cliffhanger" I'm still expecting to end the season on so while I can see how they could torture us with taking Felicity, my guess is not this year at least.  

Edited February 4, 2018 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, jaye.elle said:

I am absolutely going to adopt this thinking. Although the evil part of me would like to see Oliver torn apart trying to find Felicity if she was kidnapped by evil guys / black ops, the 'happily ever after' part of me wants them to be happy and settled and not-kidnapped.

I wouldn't mind seeing him briefly lose his mind but I'd want to see it and I don't think I would if it happened over a five-month hiatus.  If they were going to do it, maybe the midseason break instead?  

[Mellowyellow]

They were separated last season!!!! Doesn't that count as a separation already????? Nooooooooooo

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

They were separated last season!!!! Doesn't that count as a separation already????? Nooooooooooo

Only emotionally!  

I still feel robbed not getting a reunion on the island when he found they were alive.  

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Only emotionally!  

I still feel robbed not getting a reunion on the island when he found they were alive.  

But she was on the island when it blew up!!!!! That was physical! 

[BkWurm1]

25 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

But she was on the island when it blew up!!!!! That was physical! 

Lol, now I feel like I'm torturing you with the idea so yes, you are right and this is me smiling and nodding and saying Olicity will never ever ever have any separations or hard times ever again.  ;)

[Mellowyellow]

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Lol, now I feel like I'm torturing you with the idea so yes, you are right and this is me smiling and nodding and saying Olicity will never ever ever have any separations or hard times ever again.  ;)

I think she'll get arrested.....

On a happier note do you guys think we'll get Olicitots and will they be planned ones or surprises. 

[BkWurm1]

I tend to want a pregnancy if it were to happen, to happen at the very end of the show.  And I'm not sure if I'd want it planned or not.  Maybe a happy medium where they aren't actively trying but have had the talk that they would be happy if/when it happens.  

[SmallScreenDiva]

7 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

I've been watching this show since S1 (like all of y'all) and I have never come across anyone who wanted Felicity to be the BC. I've only seen anti Felicity fans bring that up. 

*waves* Hi!

It's not really a want-want ... but seeing how Arrow has screwed up BC my friends and I were just kinda talking/dreaming/wishing that Arrow had let Felicity train from the very beginning. Little by little. And then in the final episode of the series, or maybe even the final season she suits up. This, of course, will never happen. And we don't want an Insta-Canary either. Just a "what if" Arrow had the willingness and the foresight. 

[KillahBee007]

So, I’ve been thinking on this Civil War storyline that the show is attempting to do and I can’t help but compare it what MCU did. Yes, I know different mediums, characters, etc.  However, for me, when it came to MCU, I found myself saying yeah, I get why xyz character did this but I also understand why xyz character felt this way. 

 

Then I look at what this show is attempting to do and no. I don’t care about whatever motivations the n00bs have, they pale in comparison to OTA. Blame it on the lack chemistry, lack of good writing or just poor execution. I just don’t give a damn. 

[VCRTracking]

I really do want Batman to show up in the final season and so he's 100 times better at what Ollie does. He wouldn't do dumbass things like hold back the strongest member of his team during an alien invasion because he wants to "claw a sense of normalcy".

[Featherhat]

Personally no thanks to Bats IMHO. He'd end up taking over and if he didn't there would be complaints that he didn't and they should just rename the show Batman. There would be calls for a crossover featuring just him, Superman and Flash with all the other characters including GA and Supergirl aka the leads of their shows either absent or reduced to a few lines. 

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

. He wouldn't do dumbass things like hold back the strongest member of his team during an alien invasion because he wants to "claw a sense of normalcy".

Yeah I think he would. Oliver doesn't normally do that it was just a lazy writing excuse so Kara wouldn't end the crossover early. They capped her again this cross over with Overgirl's bad heart and red sun for Supergirl (which did up the stakes and gave the chance for more emotional moments. That would happen whether it was Green Batman lite or Bruce Wayne uttering those lines. Plus it's not like he was always making sound choices in the recent movies.

Plus Bruce is already on Gotham and his TV rights are with FOX. If they want to have a wiser version of Oliver I'd suggest Black Lightening popping up, he's where Oliver might be in 20 years if he lives and that could be a facinating meeting.

I like that CW DCTV is successful Without "the big three" although I'm curious about the old Amazon script they passed on.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Featherhat

[statsgirl]

If a Batman show had to fill 23 episodes a year for 6+ years, he'd be doing all the dumbass things because they need to fill all that airtime.

And if he was n a crossover and 100x better than Oliver, much of the Arrow fandom wouldn't be happy to see the guy they watch the show for made to look incompetent.  Supergirl has to not only bench J'onn they have to keep coming up with reasons why Superman isn't there helping her so that Supergirl can be the one to save the day.

[Mellowyellow]

If you could kill ONE (only ONE) of the N00bs which one would you off?

Mine would be Curtis. We do not need Curtis and I resent him DEEPLY for infringing on Felicity's skills.

Curtis needs to DIE! And I do not want Alena in the lair either.

The other two I can ignore. I have great ignoring powers but Curtis REALLY needs to die.

[Primal Slayer]

Rene. 

If you asked me last year I'd probably say Dinah because I was bitter for obvious reasons but now definitely Rene. 

[apinknightmare]

Same. He's the worst one for me - his indignation over not being trusted when he admitted that he betrayed Oliver, his axe-swinging idiocy, and my need to never hear anyone on the show referred to as "Hoss" again all contribute to me wanting him dead.

Edited March 5, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

They really should think turning him into a Red Hood/Jason Todd type character if he sticks around. I could see him easily swaying to the dark side. 

[insomniadreams88]

I may hate Rene, but I don’t want him dead because I think, maybe after some time, he could be someone who should be in his daughter’s life - though probably not full-time - if it happens off-screen, out of Star City. 

Curtis, on the other hand? I wouldn’t miss him if he died, especially after what he did to Diggle. 

[Angel12d]

That’s a hard question because I kinda want them all dead? ?

I’ve hated Curtis for a long time now and pray for his death often so it would probably be him. But the other two are awful so can Rene just decide to go raise his kid elsewhere once he’s remembered she still exists and can Dinah just go and sqwark/stomp/scowl in another city? That’d be great! 

[thegirlsleuth]

I really dislike Dinah and she's my first choice to go.  I don't feel like she has a narrative purpose that couldn't be filled by Lance or Diggle.  She's been hurt by bad writing--her tragic backstory was explained in flashbacks when she arrived, and then re-explained a few episodes ago. People have talked about Juliana's gritted teeth acting, but my bigger issue with her acting is she throws off the rhythm of scenes--she doesn't pick up quickly on people's dialogue cues,  and she talks more slowly than anyone else.

Rene is super-annoying, but at least he has a distinct role.  Curtis is experiencing benign neglect from the writers.  Even though he's been around the longest we haven't gotten the obligatory flashback episode. Other than Paul and his time at Palmer Tech, we only know small details about him.  Usually characters on Arrow benefit from benign neglect--I feel like Oliver and Felicity's relationship thrived simply because the writers weren't actively trying to write "the relationship" at first--but Curtis is just boring.

Edited March 5, 2018 by thegirlsleuth

[statsgirl]

I don't think any of them would really be missed.  Maybe Curtis because he can build cool stuff like Cisco can.

I have a variation on the question:  Who can be redeemed?  If the show is not planning on killing off everyone or sending them ff, sme have got to be redeemed.

For me, Curtis is the only one who can be because he joined the dark side for the sake of solidarity with his friends. He strikes me as someone who wants to belong so much he will do things he wouldn't do otherwise.

Rene can never be redeemed for me. If dissing Felicity from the start because she's not a fighter and ignoring her requests not to call her Blondie wasn't bad enough, he was proud of the fact that he doesn't follow orders, he accepted Oliver's help to get back his daughter when he had given up trying and his offer of a job in the mayor's office and then gave him up to the FBI. And most recently of course he went after Oliver with an axe.

Dinah is iffy for me.  I'd say she could be redeemed because her actions at the moment are because of her grief but she's really crossed the line.

[Angel12d]

2 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I really dislike Dinah and she's my first choice to go.  I don't feel like she has a narrative purpose that couldn't be filled by Lance or Diggle.  She's been hurt by bad writing--her tragic backstory was explained in flashbacks when she arrived, and then re-explained a few episodes ago. People have talked about Juliana's gritted teeth acting, but my bigger issue with her acting is she throws off the rhythm of scenes--she doesn't pick up quickly on people's dialogue cues,  and she talks more slowly than anyone else.

Rene is super-annoying, but at least he has a distinct role.  Curtis is experiencing benign neglect from the writers.  Even though he's been around the longest we haven't gotten the obligatory flashback episode. Other than Paul and his time at Palmer Tech, we only know small details about him.  Usually characters on Arrow benefit from benign neglect--I feel like Oliver and Felicity's relationship thrived simply because the writers weren't actively trying to write "the relationship" at first--but Curtis is just boring.

I actually agree about Dinah. I still don’t really know why she’s even hanging around, outside of BTS “because comics” reasons. She’s a complete random they found from another city just because she has a canary cry. She has no history or connections with anyone and the ones they tried to make with both Quentin and Diggle in 6a felt forced.

IDK. I think she can easily leave and wouldn’t be missed at all. But then I feel that way about all 3 of the newbies so...

[JJ928]

Honestly, best case would be that Vince didn't die & someone took him so he can heal, he comes back and she leaves with him somewhere far away. Rene should take his kid and go. I used to say Curtis was redeemable, but after hurting John, he can leave and go find his ex. Or they can all die. I'm good with either those. However, this crappy ass show will probably resolve this issue offscreen and one day they'll all be buddies.

Edited March 5, 2018 by JJ928

[tennisgurl]

At this point all three of them could disappear into a time vortex for all I care. I used to think they could be redeemed, and I guess they don’t need to die, mainly because it would upset other people, but I want them GONE. Have them move to another city (they hate OTA so much, it’s not like they’ll talk anyway) and never be spoken of again. Or a train derails and they’re the only casualties. Or they decide to leave superhero stuff to the professionals and open up a Cinnabon franchise. I don’t care, I just want them off my screen! 

Edited March 5, 2018 by tennisgurl

[tangerine95]

This is such a hard choice,I hate them all so much and want them gone lol.Before the last couple of episodes I would have said Curtis.He's unbelievably annoying,isn't funny,his scenes with Felicity look like he's talking over her most of the time,he takes away from her skills,he's the most useless fighter etc.But now I'd probably say Dinah.She's gotten so much focus it's actually sidelined Oliver imo,her storyline is a repeat of her introduction episode,she was willing to hurt and even kill OTA for her revenge so she can't ever be trusted again if this show made any sense,I think JH is a terrible actress,she's a 3rd BC which is beyond unnecessary.

[BkWurm1]

A little more than a month ago, this was my answer to how I would redeem the noobs (minus Rene cause he was already IMO a lost cause)

On 1/19/2018 at 8:50 PM, BkWurm1 said:

They'd have to individually come to understand what the bigger reasons were behind their behavior and apologize.  Let's start with Curtis.  

He was a big supporter of Oliver and Felicity's relationship UNTIL they got married and it was like he got triggered.  How could Oliver Queen, that emotionally messed up guy be in a stable marriage when he couldn't make his work?  Why does Oliver get to have it all while poor old Curtis loses everything? 

He'was already blaming the team for Paul leaving him (as opposed to Paul leaving him because Curtis chose to be on the team) and then Oliver and Felicity dared to question his loyalty after he'd given up everything for them?  It's not actually logical and if he could realize that he'd been looking to place blame anywhere but on himself for his marriage falling apart, he could stop resenting Oliver and realize that getting spied on wasn't really what he was losing it over.  And then maybe he could ask for forgiveness and thus self-aware, no longer be an asshat.  

 

Dinah would have to realize that she let her emotions be manipulated by Vince.  Letting him plant questions about the team in her head even before Oliver questioned her.  Also, she needs to figure out why she keeps trying to get people to keep secrets and tell her secrets. Maybe acknowledge that she's so freaking lonely that she tries to bind people to her through secrets since after spending years alone on a quest for vengeance and years before that never being allowed to be herself, always playing a part undercover, that she lost the talent for something as fundamental as knowing how to make actual friends without the strings. 

Her loneliness is something I saw on her "date" with Vincent.  She was just babbling and seemed so happy and light but it was all fake and I did in the scene feel sorry for her, for how alone she still was.  She doesn't seem to know how to make connections outside of team loyalty.  Both on Team Arrow and in her job.  Like she needs the structure and the hierarchy to make her feel comfortable.  And then within it, she tries to spin or share secrets to deepen the bond only to be wildly disillusioned to find she was alone in thinking she'd earned something more through her methods. 

She also seemed to think that because Oliver had seen something in her and wanted her on the team, that it was some kind of proof of his undying faith in her even though it couldn't have been more clear that he was just working out his own issues.  Her secretive nature also is something she would have to acknowledge kept her from trusting Oliver and the team with the truth about why she was seeing Vincent.  Instinct had her clamming up when if she had explained, I think they would have listened.  

Last year Dinah wasn't like this.  Last year she just seemed happy to have a purpose and a support system around her as she set up her life.  She wasn't playing games or trying to control the situations.  She just seemed to like being in a group.  She was more like big sister to Curtis and Rene, relaxed and just going with the flow but this year she's an emotional mess.  Maybe that's what I need from her.  That she realizes that she thought she'd worked through her issues but really, it was only after she started feeling comfortable with the team that her insecurities really started showing up. 

I think I could forgive and forget Dinah's behavior if she opened up about her issues and realized that her need for control gets in her way of actually making friends, the kind of deeper friendship that earns actual trust, not just secrets creating a false sense of intimacy.  

As for Rene - I think he is a lost cause for me.  

 

But I read back my answer and after all that has happened, I feel like I was so naive about how bad it was going to get. 

Curtis back at the start of the rift was acting all hurt about not being trusted while also blaming OTA for his marital woes.  And Dinah was it seemed all under the spell of Vince as well as being disillusioned that she wasn't as special to the OTA as she assumed she was.  But at that time while they were acting like children, they were the kind of children that with a long nap and a well-balanced meal, one could expect them to see the errors of their way and say sorry.  But now, they are entitled, rotten kids that will always blame everyone else for their problems.  

Not to mention, how do you reconcile or forgive when the Noobs are convinced that the OTA are the devil?  This is way past hurt feelings.  I feel like the OTA could save them all from certain death and there would be no softening on the NTA's part, rather they'd complain about OTA cooties.  

And how do you get back the trust?  That's long gone.  I wouldn't trust any of the noobs to put the city first or to ever stick to a mission or not to undermine future ventures.    

Curtis has a part of him that just wants to help but he's proved fickle in his loyalty.  It's like with Paul.  That's his husband.  He made vows. He claims he loves him and wanted to spend his life with him, but Curtis got enamored with the idea of going out on the streets and being that dude.   He took away his loyalty to Paul and gave it to his new profession and then when Paul reacted to being lied to and his wishes ignored, Curtis blames the OTA and soon finds a reason to give his loyalty to a new group.  I feel like one day he'd probably meet some guy he liked or maybe some other project that got him excited and his priorities would completely shift again and as he'd leave, he'd probably complain about how he'd been misused by the NTA as well. There's an instability about him that I don't trust now.

Same goes with Dinah.  She's been nothing but an emotional mess and has shown the team no signs they should ever trust her.  I can actually imagine a time down the road where both Curtis and Dinah might calm down and own up to their crappy behavior and apologize and I wouldn't mind if OTA forgave them.  But trust them on the team again?  Friends in a social setting but to watch their backs?  To never betray them?  Yeah, that kind of break in trust can't be quickly healed.

I can kind of compare it to Oliver and Felicity's breakup.  After Oliver repeatedly shut Felicity out and lied to her about it, as much as I wanted them to get back together, I couldn't have accepted a quick reconciliation, not after he sent the kid away without ever even talking to her about it.  Trust needed to be rebuilt.  It took time and a lot of self-examination and that was for a pair that never ever stopped loving and supporting each other or having each other's backs even when they were broken up.  All it took to heal their professional team level of trust was Oliver and the team actually desperately needing her and she was back and was the one that was set not to budge.  They had so much less distance to travel to get back their trust since both wanted the rift healed even if it wasn't something they could do right away.  

So first we are up against no one really wanting to heal the rift right now. But maybe time would help with that and let everyone get past the anger and blame.    A hell of a lot of time.  But time is meaningless unless there is also deep self-reflection on the NTA's part and owning up to their behavior but I'd still need more to rebuild that trust and I can't think of anything that would quickly deliver it.  There's no grand gesture they can make.  Even if they showed up and all worked together to save the city from the 3D printer king, that wouldn't prove anything to me.  Just that for a moment, their goals aligned.  

I guess that is what it would take.  Over and over, the teams finding their goals lining up and them working together grudgingly until trust could be rebuilt, one mission at a time, over a long time.  But would even that be enough to restore trust? 

The show had Felicity walk in Oliver's shoes to better understand him but also had Oliver realize what made him act like he had.  Dinah's already walked in Oliver's shoes and she came away with no empathy for him.  I can't imagine what Curtis would get himself into in order for him to walk a mile in Oliver's shoes. Part of me still thinks all it would take for Dinah and Curtis to realize their initial error would be someone from another team to laugh in their face when they whined about Oliver not trusting them as much as Felicity or Diggle.  A quick round of "Duh! She's his wife and he's his sworn brother and they've been through hell and back" should do the trick.  It might even be funnier if it came from someone like BS.  

Or maybe if they experience betrayal on their team (Hi Rene!) then they'd realize how dumb they'd been, but even that doesn't change the problem of earning back the OTA's trust. 

Curtis keeps harping on them not seeing them as equals.  One show narrative would be for the NTA to prove they were, but they've done just the opposite again and again.  I fear what will happen is the OTA will end up in a circumstance where they will choose to trust them as their equals while trying to stop the last villain standing and their act of faith will trigger regaining the NTA's trust and they will be willing to come back and the show will skip the NTA actually earning the OTA's trust at all.   

Edited March 5, 2018 by BkWurm1
Sooo many typos and grammatical issues. It was late. :D

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think Rene is the worst but Dinah is the one that drags down the show more because they spend time on her and her boring drama so thinking about the future I’d get rid of Dinah, if I only had to judge who is worse I’d get rid of Rene.

But I wouldn’t kill anyone, I’d send them away because I remember what happened with LL..she was a background character no one really cared that much about (with the exception of Thea and Lance) but after she died she became a saint that had to be mentioned every episode.

[BunsenBurner]

Couldn’t agree with you more @Midnight Lullaby! 

I would be happy if all 3 left. They could go together or apart I really don’t care just as long as they are gone. 

Also agree with you @BkWurm1 excellent reasoning. 

[ladylaw99]

It's no secret I have never liked the three stooges.  There is no redeeming any of them for me.  The trust is broken.  I would never trust my life with any of them and if I can't trust my life then there is no point in being a team.   

My only fear is the lame reason that OTA is going to forgive them with.  This may actually make my head explode.  

Edited March 5, 2018 by ladylaw99

[KenyaJ]

13 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I actually agree about Dinah. I still don’t really know why she’s even hanging around, outside of BTS “because comics” reasons.

It's really time for this show to admit that the Black Canary experiment failed and let go of it once and for all. MG acknowledged in one of those interviews with jbuffyangel that they settled on Felicity as Oliver's great love in Season 2, and once they did that, there was really no way for Black Canary to work on this show, IMO. As sad as it is to say, without being Oliver's love interest, there was no way that Black Canary was ever going to be of equal prominence or importance to the show as Oliver. And the one time that she was, with Sara, Diggle and Felicity had to be pushed into the background to facilitate that. Once Black Canary became "just another superhero" without an important role in Oliver's personal life, the show should have cut bait and had her go off to another city where she could be the Head Superhero In Charge and occasionally return to Star City to give Oliver an assist when he needed one. That's why I'd send Dinah back to Hub City or somewhere else at the end of the season. It's obvious that she believes herself to be the leader of the B-Team, but there's only room for one leader on Team Arrow. And since Dinah is not Oliver's equal and never will be, she really needs to run her own team somewhere far away from Star City.

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Not to mention, how do you reconcile or forgive when the Noobs are convinced that the OTA are the devil?  This is way passed hurt feelings.  I feel like the OTA could save them all from certain death and there would be no softening on the NTA's part, rather they'd complain about OTA cooties.  

This is why there's no reconciliation that will ever work for me. This fissure between the teams isn't a disagreement about methods or priorities. Well, that's not entirely true. OTA has been treating it that way, which is why they've still been willing to share intel and work together for the good of the city. But the Noobs have made this intensely personal. They've made it clear over and over again that they think OTA are bad people. And how do you ever fix that? If Oliver, Felicity and Diggle are as abhorrent as the Noobs say they are, why would the Noobs ever want to work with them again? And why would OTA ever want to have them back? They trained new recruits before; if they need help going forward, why wouldn't they go find new people who didn't think they were the scum of the earth? It's not like Rene and Curtis have any specialized skills that are vital to the team, and anyone can throw on Laurel's old collar and scream loudly. The Noobs are beyond replaceable, and since they don't have the kind of personal bonds with Oliver that would explain why he'd overlook everything that has happened in these last few weeks.

For the past six years, we've watched Oliver struggle, grow, regress, and evolve into the most mature, rational Oliver we've ever seen. And we watched him do all of that with Felicity and Diggle's help. The three of them have been through a ton of shit, individually and collectively over those six years and it's turned them into something more than a family. They've always been the heroes of the show. I don't understand how the writers ever believed we'd sympathize with a group of johnny-come-lately ungrateful brats who decided that our heroes are the worst people who ever lived. And now they've taken it too far to walk any of this back. For most of the audience, I think any reconciliation will not only be unearned, but unwanted. There was nothing so special about Team Arrow 4.0 that anyone is clamoring for them to be reunited, so why bother? The writers just need to admit they fucked up and write NTA out.

My biggest fear is that the writers are going to reunite the teams and it's going to make me reluctant to watch anymore. Because as much as I love OTA, my hate for the Noobs is so strong that I don't think I could stomach having to watch them in the bunker again.

Edited March 5, 2018 by KenyaJ

[Angel12d]

5 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

It's really time for this show to admit that the Black Canary experiment failed and let go of it once and for all. MG acknowledged in one of those interviews with jbuffyangel that they settled on Felicity as Oliver's great love in Season 2, and once they did that, there was really no way for Black Canary to work on this show, IMO. As sad as it is to say, without being Oliver's love interest, there was no way that Black Canary was ever going to be of equal prominence or importance to the show as Oliver. And the one time that she was, with Sara, Diggle and Felicity had to be pushed into the background to facilitate that. Once Black Canary became "just another superhero" without an important role in Oliver's personal life, the show should have cut bait and had her go off to another city where she could be the Head Superhero In Charge and occasionally returned to Star City to give Oliver an assist when he needed one. That's why I'd send Dinah back to Hub City or somewhere else at the end of the season. It's obvious that Dinah believes herself to be the leader of the B-Team, but there's only room for one leader on Team Arrow. And since Dinah is not Oliver's equal and never will be, she really needs to run her own team somewhere far away from Star City.

I agree that BC has failed on this show and can never be Oliver's equal or have equal importance, especially when Felicity and Diggle exist. I just don't see how someone who joined the show in s5 can ever be more important than Oliver's wife or his best friend who have been there by his side since the beginning. It doesn't make sense. Oliver will always have a deeper bond/history/connection/trust with Felicity and Diggle than any kind of "because comics" nonsense and I'd really wish they'd stop trying to prove otherwise. They've had 3 tries at this and it's beyond boring now. Let it go.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Angel12d

[BkWurm1]

Quote

That's why I'd send Dinah back to Hub City or somewhere else at the end of the season. It's obvious that she believes herself to be the leader of the B-Team, but there's only room for one leader on Team Arrow. And since Dinah is not Oliver's equal and never will be, she really needs to run her own team somewhere far away from Star City.

I hate that I still have hope that this will actually happen.  It's such a reasonable solution based on where the show has taken these characters.  Right now, Rene and Curtis have no need to stay in the city either.  (No job or business anymore) and Dinah could pretty easily get hired elsewhere it seems.  So pack up the NTA and have them all move away.  And if the show did this, I would take back every most of my complaints about the Civil War storyline.  If this really was about finding a reason to exit stage left half the existing team, I will applaud the writers because I have no reluctance about this idea.  I WANT them to leave.  It sounds like the majority of the viewers want them long gone.  And that was a pretty quick pivot for many.  

But I will be shocked if the writing was intentionally that purposeful and effective.  So while I want to hope it happens, hoping hurts because I don't believe the natural outcome will happen.  

Edited March 5, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

My hope is that NTA goes far far away. My fear is that the writers plan to reunite them and expect us to be happy.

If they were to do something in the middle, I'd suggest they keep 2 teams and reduce the focus on NTA. Reduce the actors episode counts, have them show up for specific 'reasons' and, then maybe use them occasionally to give the main actors a break.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Angel12d]

I feel like they're here to stay but I do think keeping them split is best for everyone. But instead of all the focus on the newbies, turn focus back to OTA and bring in the newbies now and then when needed. It's essentially what they've been doing because they've been fighting together despite being split up but maybe just without the newbies' shitty attitudes/animosity? 

The bunker has felt so much better without like six of them all hanging around. It was way too overcrowded so separate teams is better, IMO. 

[BkWurm1]

I could live with separate teams but only if the B team is not given equal screen time.  I don't give a damn about them most of the time.  I liked them a hell of a lot more when they were just there to pop up to support and service the OTA's stories once in a while but otherwise were just scenery. 

This is the time of the year when the show focuses on the ones I don't care about so I'm hoping they will go back to putting them in a corner most of the time going forward.  

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

This is the time of the year when the show focuses on the ones I don't care about so I'm hoping they will go back to putting them in a corner most of the time going forward.  

Pretty much, except S1 the show always falls to shit around this time. Occasionally we'll get a good episode but, mostly you could drop 10-17 and not lose anything. 1-9 and 18-23 are the only ones worth watching (generally)

[KenyaJ]

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Pretty much, except S1 the show always falls to shit around this time. 

Like clockwork. I loved 411 and 611,  but in almost every season, Episodes 11 through 15 have been tedious, if not aggressively awful. I know by now not to expect better, but that doesn't make it go down any easier.

[Mellowyellow]

I feel like we had the same sort of uproar last year about the shit show that was season 5. It all feels suspiciously familiar! Even my feelings of resentment right now feel kinda familiar!

I want a fun episode again! I hated S4 but I liked that Bee episode! It was goofy and fun!

[Morrigan2575]

22 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Like clockwork. I loved 411 and 611,  but in almost every season, Episodes 11 through 15 have been tedious, if not aggressively awful. I know by now not to expect better, but that doesn't make it go down any easier.

Yep, there's been a few I liked, hell I liked 610 and 611 but, generally I feel like this particular block of episodes are just crap/filler that the writers have to get through so they can get to the final 5-6 episodes of the season.

[lemotomato]

56 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I feel like we had the same sort of uproar last year about the shit show that was season 5. It all feels suspiciously familiar! Even my feelings of resentment right now feel kinda familiar!

Right around this time of year last year there was rage about Susan, panic about Oliver/Dinah hooking up and Olicity being over for good and scorn over the dumb gun control episode. The season before that, there was panic over how Felicity would find out about William (lots of speculation that she would find out publicly, that she'd have to fend for herself while in a wheelchair after the breakup). In season 3 there was panic about Felicity leaving Arrow and going off to a new spinoff show or Flash with Ray Palmer and that Laurel getting her suit meant she was going to hook up with Oliver because omg, BC and GA!

There tends to be a lot of resentment and uproar during this stretch of episodes. Usually Felicity related. Hmm.

Edited March 6, 2018 by lemotomato

[statsgirl]

This is the time of year they don't seem to know what to do with.  The first part of the season is about setting up the season and then the crossover eps; the last half dozen eps are about wrapping up the season and maybe setting up the next.  This is the set of episodes they don't know what to do with, everything is set up but it's too soon to wrap it up.

On 3/5/2018 at 4:01 AM, BkWurm1 said:

  I can't imagine what Curtis would get himself into in order for him to walk a mile in Oliver's shoes. Part of me still thinks all it would take for Dinah and Curtis to realize their initial error would be someone from another team to laugh in their face when they whined about Oliver not trusting them as much as Felicity or Diggle.  A quick round of "Duh! She's his wife and he's his sworn brother and they've been through hell and back" should do the trick.  It might even be funnier if it came from someone like BS.  

I want to see Slade to come back and smack some  sense into them.  Or Nyssa or Sara "Let me tell you about how the League of Assassins works.."

Failing that, Quentin could do it if he ever stops obsessing about BS.  Roy is still around somewhere too.

Edited March 6, 2018 by statsgirl
'know' is not the same as 'now'

[Mellowyellow]

25 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This is the time of year they don't seem to know what to do with.  The first part of the season is about setting up the season and then the crossover eps; the last half dozen eps are about wrapping up the season and maybe setting up the next.  This is the set of episodes they don't now what to do with, everything is set up but it's too soon to wrap it up.

 

Just give me Felicity and Diggle strolling around town having snacks and tea or something! Since it's Arrow and there must be action maybe they can stumble on a villain in the high tea restaurant and need to rescue everyone through clever use of silverware. I would gladly watch that! 

If we must have drivel give me Delicity or Olicity drivel! 

Down with these noobs!!!!!!!

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

This is the set of episodes they don't now what to do with, everything is set up but it's too soon to wrap it up.

 

I wish they'd use this middle stretch to do more with one and done missions, things that would let the team get more focus on stuff that is more about letting us see what their normal day to day life is with balancing, well, life.  Not everything needs to be OMG THE CITY IS GOING TO BLOW!  If they would just allow the stakes to go down for a while, they could craft something more intimate and personal.  Make time to show bonds form between team members, not just whispers secrets and the occasional pep talk, but just normal conversation and interaction.  Like MellowYellow said, I'd watch Felicity and Diggle strolling around town having snacks and tea.  Because how they think and act and behave as characters is interesting all by itself.

The showrunners need to remember the show lives and dies by its characters, not the plot. If it's not time to move the plot forward, why not showcase them instead of drama for drama's sake?     

[jay741982]

On 3/4/2018 at 8:44 PM, Mellowyellow said:

If you could kill ONE (only ONE) of the N00bs which one would you off?

Mine would be Curtis. We do not need Curtis and I resent him DEEPLY for infringing on Felicity's skills.

Curtis needs to DIE! And I do not want Alena in the lair either.

The other two I can ignore. I have great ignoring powers but Curtis REALLY needs to die.

Rene for me. I hate the fucker. Others on this board have stated why I hate him 

On 3/4/2018 at 8:59 PM, insomniadreams88 said:

I may hate Rene, but I don’t want him dead because I think, maybe after some time, he could be someone who should be in his daughter’s life - though probably not full-time - if it happens off-screen, out of Star City. 

Curtis, on the other hand? I wouldn’t miss him if he died, especially after what he did to Diggle. 

I HATE Curtis for what he did to Diggle 

[statsgirl]

12 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I wish they'd use this middle stretch to do more with one and done missions, things that would let the team get more focus on stuff that is more about letting us see what their normal day to day life is with balancing, well, life.  Not everything needs to be OMG THE CITY IS GOING TO BLOW!  If they would just allow the stakes to go down for a while, they could craft something more intimate and personal.  Make time to show bonds form between team members, not just whispers secrets and the occasional pep talk, but just normal conversation and interaction. 

I would be fine with that.  But I can just hear the cries of "Filler!  Filler episode!" ringing in my head.

[Mary0360]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I would be fine with that.  But I can just hear the cries of "Filler!  Filler episode!" ringing in my head.

See I look at a show like Buffy and some of their best episodes were what I guess would be classed as filler episodes. Episodes like Hush, or the Zeppo or Conversations with Dead people. 

 

So I don't think it would hurt the writers to try having more VOTW type episodes or take a stab like the Buffy writers and have more unique and different episodes smattered in between the main overarching plot episodes 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Mary0360

[SmallScreenDiva]

I wish MG and the writers had the sense of humor to actually come up with a fun, action-packed episode of Oliver and Felicity shopping at Bed Bath and Beyond and stumbling upon a robbery or bad guys hiding. I'd be more interested in that than this BS crap. 

On 3/4/2018 at 8:44 PM, Mellowyellow said:

If you could kill ONE (only ONE) of the N00bs which one would you off?

Mine would be Curtis. We do not need Curtis and I resent him DEEPLY for infringing on Felicity's skills.

Curtis needs to DIE! And I do not want Alena in the lair either.

The other two I can ignore. I have great ignoring powers but Curtis REALLY needs to die.

I don't want anybody to die but I do want Dinah gone. Forcing BC in there is really screwing up Arrow. I cannot ignore her because the show has pushed her to the forefront and JH is such a bad actress that she's hard to ignore. (I realized my jaw was sore even thought I FF'd through most of last week's episodes because I clench my teeth like she does when she's on-screen). Alas, I don't think she's gonna go away.

Edited March 7, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[BkWurm1]

I honestly don't think JH is a terrible actress.  I really liked most of what she did last year, minus the smoldering at inappropriate times and people.  But the storyline they've given her this year has been awful and all the attention she's gotten has not been to the good of her character.  It was IMO still waaaaay too soon to make her carry this much of the show.  I was sick of her before we ever hit the Civil War and Vince storylines.  I wanted less of her not, more, more, more and not just more attention but more attention while she's literally written at her worst and least likable.  That's why I don't think she's a bad actress.  I think this is the crap they want from her.

All of the Newbs have been greatly diminished in my eyes from their previous "hero" status" but none fell further from the mark than Dinah.  Curtis was never a great fit and Rene IMO only slightly above a goon.  Dinah though seemed to have the ability, drive and focus but all that collapsed into a steaming pile of me, me, me at that expense of anything noble or admirable.  

Edited March 7, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Angel12d]

She's not the worst actress ever but IMO she's a background actress, if that makes sense? I don't think she's good enough to carry longer scenes and episodes, especially the dramatic ones. And her idea of a strong female character is stomping and glaring and posing, OMG the posing. It's not great at all.

I think she was better in s5 because she wasn't in the forefront of everything. Just IMO.

[Morrigan2575]

I think JH, like CL, KC, CH, BR and a ton of other Arrowverse actors are extremely limited. If the writing is in their ballpark they do OK and in some cases very well. When the writing is outside their range they're horrible.

CL can do wounded bird well and, has physical presence, that's about it.

KC (supposedly) does bitch well. Frankly I don't see any real improvement in BS but, others do so I'll give it to her.

BR does goofy very well and he's great at playing pretty but dumb/dim and deadpan deliveries. Make him a dramatic lead or romantic hero and he falls flat IMO.

CH does snarky, sarcastic and dim well, he's not great at drama. Although, he did a great job in 319 which is probably because it was partially pulling real emotions.

JH was fine in the sarcastic big sister role. That's about it. She can't do drama or rage or comedy or really anything other, IMO.