S01.E03: The Ladder

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

With something now stalking the ships, the captains debate their options, testing their loyalty to one another against their duty to their crews.

 

[SimoneS]

What a horrible way to die! I am so annoyed by Sir John that I cannot even feel sorry about his death. Is this the end of Ciaran Hinds' appearances?

The woman was ridiculous going outside even though she thought it was a bear.

[patty1h]

That was crazy when the captain was pulled into that hole, and when that other mauled seaman's body came down and his jaw-less head landed next to him.  Also, the gay lovers spat lead to the short dude leaving a "gift" for his ex.  Dang!

I thought it funny that the ship had a spiffy captains coffin in storage, just in case.

[SimoneS]

That has got to be the most boring and chem-free tv gay couple ever.

[tennisgurl]

Dang, this show isnt messing around! Shit has already gotten really, REALLY real. 

These guys are so out of their depths with this monster. I really dont think the ice monster gives a flying frick about serving for the good of the British Empire, and they need to figure out quickly that shooting at stuff and planting flags isnt going to help here very much. 

So Ciaran Hinds is already gone? That sucks. Poor guy gets nastily killed too early on every show I see him in! Should be interesting to see where the commanders go next. 

So, cure being gay by... doing watercolors? Never heard that one before. I guess by 1845 standards, you could have worse suggestions. 

The atmosphere on this show is really great. It just feels freezing cold and isolated, all of the time. In your bones. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by tennisgurl

[thuganomics85]

Well, damn!  Honestly, I kind of suspected that there would be a big death pretty early one and between John reminding James that he would have to serve under Francis last week and his dressing down of Francis tonight, I wasn't completely shocked that he was the one to bite it tonight.  Still, that was a pretty brutal way for him (and the rest) to go.  That said, I wonder if they'll use the flashbacks to keep Ciaran Hinds a bit longer.  I'll miss getting to see him on screen, but, to be fair, they have a whole lot of other talent to keep this going.

And on a less serious note: I did chuckle when James was all torn up over John's death, because I just remembered Rome and was like "Don't fret, Tobias Menzies!  At least this time you weren't the one actually responsible for Ciaran's exit!"

I do worry for Francis, because I do suspect some of the men are not going to take kindly with him in charge.  Starting with James.

Sweet, John Ross from the flashbacks was played by Clive "Blackfish Tully" Russell!  I kind of feel like each week a new former Game of Thrones actor will suddenly arrive!

Still having to learn most of these characters' actual names (the nice surgeon, the two gay soldiers, the religious/homophobic guy who knows about them), but I'm definitely digging the show.

[slothgirl]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The woman was ridiculous going outside even though she thought it was a bear.

I'm pretty sure that she has some sort of symbiotic relationship with the "bear". When her father was dying she kept crying something about how she wasn't ready to take it on, or do it or something. (I didn't have the subtitles on yet) Even at the time, I got the feeling that she meant more than just "go on without her dad". The "bear" did bring her a seal, after all. I think in the earlier episode, they were WITH the "bear" when her father got shot. They weren't tracking it or being tracked by it.

I'm sure we'll find out more as it goes on.

Edited April 3, 2018 by slothgirl

[mrspidey]

I see Cirian Hinds has contracted the Sean Bean Virus. Everywhere I've seen him in, he ends up dead. 

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I'm pretty sure that she has some sort of symbiotic relationship with the "bear". When her father was dying she kept crying something about how she wasn't ready to take it on, or do it or something. (I didn't have the subtitles on yet) Even at the time, I got the feeling that she meant more than just "go on without her dad". The "bear" did bring her a seal, after all. I think in the earlier episode, they were WITH the "bear" when her father got shot. They weren't tracking it or being tracked by it.

I'm sure we'll find out more as it goes on.

Ah, I didn't get that there was a relationship between the father/daughter and the bear. It is a polar bear, right? It looked like one last week. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

 

Clips:
I will not lose another man

Ambush on the ice:

[SoSueMe]

11 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I was surprised that the "bear" didn't leave a sailor's body, instead of a seal.  I feel bad for the seal.

Her father dying on the ship instead of the ice, probably puts the ship at huge risk of being attacked.

She also clearly didn't get all of the things that were on her father's body, so one of the sailors must have kept something as a memento.  Probably something that will lead trouble right back to that sailor and the rest of the crew.

 

I think that maybe Lady Silence was looking for the little ivory figures that Mr. Goodsir told them to put back into the father's parka. Gone forever now that the father was sent down the ice hole.

I am loving this show, but like everyone else I fear for the animals. But no one gets out alive.....

Sir John's death scene was pretty traumatic. It was interesting to me that in his death throes he was lamenting his niece's relationship with Francis. At least it looked that way to me. 

[patty1h]

I know that the captain is worried about being stuck in the ice indefinitely and the possibility of running out of food, but he also knows that the Eskimo people have lived in that environment for countless years and feed themselves, have shelters, etc.  He was apparently involved with the native people enough to have learned their language, so you'd think he'd have picked up some of their other skills like seal hunting, etc.  Besides sending those men on an 800 mile trek to some outpost, start another team to start foraging, fishing, hunting.

[iMonrey]

Surprised they killed off such a major character already, but I think this show will get easier to follow once they thin the cast out a bit. They kept talking about someone named Lt. Gore dying that day but I thought the last bear attack had been established as taking place several days earlier so I couldn't figure out what I missed. Also, Liam Garrigan is playing a character named Thomas Jopson. He had about 2 lines in the pilot (he was helping Francis dress for dinner) and has been relegated to the background ever since. I have to believe he eventually has a bigger role to play, because I'd hate to think an actor of his caliber has resorted to taking bit parts. (He played a key role in the mini-series Pillars of the Earth.) In fact there are several faces I recognize from other shows or films that so far haven't gotten to do much. 

[SimoneS]

5 hours ago, SoSueMe said:

I think that maybe Lady Silence was looking for the little ivory figures that Mr. Goodsir told them to put back into the father's parka. Gone forever now that the father was sent down the ice hole.

On reflection, I think that you are right. Maybe the ivory figures were how her father controlled the "magical bear" which is why she was desperately wanted them back. I don't even understand why they didn't let her have her father's body to take with her instead of throwing him in the hole. Sir John following him down there was certainly symbolic.

 

4 hours ago, patty1h said:

I know that the captain is worried about being stuck in the ice indefinitely and the possibility of running out of food, but he also knows that the Eskimo people have lived in that environment for countless years and feed themselves, have shelters, etc.  He was apparently involved with the native people enough to have learned their language, so you'd think he'd have picked up some of their other skills like seal hunting, etc.  Besides sending those men on an 800 mile trek to some outpost, start another team to start foraging, fishing, hunting.

I asked something similar on the true story thread. I don't understand why the captain who spoke "native" didn't they ask Lady Silence or the other Inuits around them for help foraging for food to replenish their supplies e.g. fishing.

[SoSueMe]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Surprised they killed off such a major character already, but I think this show will get easier to follow once they thin the cast out a bit. They kept talking about someone named Lt. Gore dying that day but I thought the last bear attack had been established as taking place several days earlier so I couldn't figure out what I missed. Also, Liam Garrigan is playing a character named Thomas Jopson. He had about 2 lines in the pilot (he was helping Francis dress for dinner) and has been relegated to the background ever since. I have to believe he eventually has a bigger role to play, because I'd hate to think an actor of his caliber has resorted to taking bit parts. (He played a key role in the mini-series Pillars of the Earth.) In fact there are several faces I recognize from other shows or films that so far haven't gotten to do much. 

I think I recognized an actor from Downton Abbey in the first episode, he maybe had one line. Michael Gregson, Edith's baby daddy on DA. I could be wrong (of course).

[AZChristian]

5 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

I think I recognized an actor from Downton Abbey in the first episode, he maybe had one line. Michael Gregson, Edith's baby daddy on DA. I could be wrong (of course).

Yep, that was him.

[Shenanigan]

Quote

Also, Liam Garrigan is playing a character named Thomas Jopson. He had about 2 lines in the pilot (he was helping Francis dress for dinner) and has been relegated to the background ever since. I have to believe he eventually has a bigger role to play, because I'd hate to think an actor of his caliber has resorted to taking bit parts. (He played a key role in the mini-series Pillars of the Earth.)

I hope so! He was good in Pillars, and I loved him in Strike Back.

[Jordan61]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I asked something similar on the true story thread. I don't understand why the captain who spoke "native" didn't they ask Lady Silence or the other Inuits around them for help foraging for food to replenish their supplies e.g. fishing.

Spoiler

I know we're not supposed to do book talk in episode threads, but he didn't speak the language in the book; I don't know about real life. I'm guessing it was made up for the show.

Edited April 4, 2018 by saoirse
Added spoiler tags to book talk.

[Netfoot]

21 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, cure being gay by... doing watercolors?

Well, apparently, you can now cure being straight if you get the right therapy.  So... watercolours?  Why not?

I wrap up to get ice from the fridge.  This show is shriveling my nuts!

[peridot]

This show has a lot of dread building up the tension.  When the crew was taking the picture, I half expected the bear to pop up and kill someone then.  There was even some snow falling in the background like there was something above them.

I felt bad for the captain of the Terror.  John just dropped his mask to tell him how he really felt, and the crew of the Erebus were eavesdropping on the dress down.  I knew that letter would come back and bite him.

For the Irish squirrelly-looking guy, I felt bad for him when his ex laughed at him about drinking with the captain.  It looks like he's now in the "fuck them all" mode.  Shitting in someone's bed is disgusting.  I was glad we weren't shown the results.

I hated that the crew buried the Inuit guy in such a disrespectful way.  It looked like the monster was watching them do that.

Edited April 4, 2018 by peridot

[renatae]

I was surprised the Inuit girl didn't insist upon taking her father's body. I can only imagine that since he didn't die "under the sky" his body is a liability. I feel the carvings were talismen needed for protection, which is why she started carving more. I agree there is some sort of relationship between, her, her father and the monster, especially since it gave her food. Since it appears to have killed her father, it must be complicated!

[slothgirl]

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Surprised they killed off such a major character already, but I think this show will get easier to follow once they thin the cast out a bit. 

The captain was one of the characters that was a real person. Also the only one whose actual death date is known. They kinda had to kill him off "on schedule" in the timeline. They can take a lot of liberties with most of the random crew members, but the top 3, the ship surgeon, and a few others are not fictional characters. (really, they could have assigned names to ALL the characters based off the actual ship manifest, but they didn't... and given some of the plotlines, I can see why not.)

2 hours ago, peridot said:

This show has a lot of dread building up the tension.  When the crew was taking the picture, I half expected the bear to pop up and kill someone then.  There was even some snow falling in the background like there was something above them.

I think we were supposed to be feeling the tension of Dr Goodlove or whatever his name was... The bait was behind him and he was at a real disadvantage being under the camera hood for the duration of the exposure, not knowing what was going on around and behind him

1 hour ago, renatae said:

I was surprised the Inuit girl didn't insist upon taking her father's body. I can only imagine that since he didn't die "under the sky" his body is a liability. I feel the carvings were talismen needed for protection, which is why she started carving more. I agree there is some sort of relationship between, her, her father and the monster, especially since it gave her food. Since it appears to have killed her father, it must be complicated!

Wasn't her father was shot by one of the crew when they were firing at what they thought was the bear over the hill? I don't think the bear mauled him.

[renatae]

Well, I thought her father got shot, especially as one crew member asked the apparent shooter what it was like. He may have been shot, I forget if they found bullets on the autopsy. But I was replaying where he died, and I saw giant claws on both of his arms, as if he was being held from behind. Maybe the creature tried to save him? I don't know what to think!

[Captanne]

Foreshadowing pets ALWAYS means they get eaten.  Steel yourselves now.  (No, I don't know.  I'm just old and have been around the block a time or two.  And I read the book years ago -- I don't remember about the pets but it's a given, really.)

Speaking of old -- since I can't get the subtitles (Amazon has tried to help to no avail) much of this show is lost on me.  I couldn't hear most of this episode at all.  (My right ear was acting up anyway.)  I have no idea what the discussion was in the close quarters between the gay men but it obviously didn't go well.  

Otherwise -- watching the lips to read them -- this was a successful episode.  Not too many cheesy bad sets and the preference of the monster has been clearly set.  The significant death was really well done, in particular.  I noticed that, for the first time in three episodes, the Captain's actor didn't phone it in.  That was refreshing.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Captanne

[SoSueMe]

4 hours ago, Captanne said:

Foreshadowing pets ALWAYS means they get eaten.  Steel yourselves now.  (No, I don't know.  I'm just old and have been around the block a time or two.  And I read the book years ago -- I don't remember about the pets but it's a given, really.)

Speaking of old -- since I can't get the subtitles (Amazon has tried to help to no avail) much of this show is lost on me.  I couldn't hear most of this episode at all.  (My right ear was acting up anyway.)  I have no idea what the discussion was in the close quarters between the gay men but it obviously didn't go well.  

Otherwise -- watching the lips to read them -- this was a successful episode.  Not too many cheesy bad sets and the preference of the monster has been clearly set.  The significant death was really well done, in particular.  I noticed that, for the first time in three episodes, the Captain's actor didn't phone it in.  That was refreshing.

I am so sorry that captions are unavailable to you. I rely on them often. I have Amazon prime and I have no problem with captions when I watch a Prime video on the laptop but my smart tv is an older Vizio and it doesn't support Amazon Prime captions, so I feel your pain. 

This Vizio doesn't support youtube videos anymore either *sigh*

[Captanne]

Given my old age weakness of being deaf (and a literal war wound, thank you very much for my service) -- perhaps the Inuit in The Terror should just put me on an iceberg and send me out to the cold, cold sea.  

I'm just saying.

[Ohwell]

I can't get captions either for this show.

[Captanne]

Weirdly, both trailers are captioned.  Go figure.

(I'll stop the captioning contributions because I'm afraid they are starting to edge towards OT.  But there just isn't that much more to say about the episode other than -- Meh, it was fine.  And the Captain's acting was a notch above par which is an improvement.  Sorry for the pets.  And I do like Crozier.  Oh, and what's up with all the side eye from that other officer with the lovely cheekbones and the long black hair?)

[SoSueMe]

1 hour ago, Captanne said:

Given my old age weakness of being deaf (and a literal war wound, thank you very much for my service) -- perhaps the Inuit in The Terror should just put me on an iceberg and send me out to the cold, cold sea.  

I'm just saying.

We wouldn't let them do that ;)

[Lava VaVoom]

Boy, am I out of the loop.  I must start actually watching this instead of listening to it (captions on) while I play games on my laptop.

Is the Terror the Monster, or one of the ships (named Terror)?

The monster is not a bear.  It is a sentient creature, because it left the girl a definite present which I thought was one of the gutted rats left for it.  It also tossed the seaman down the ice hole.  Bears don't do that.  The exploratory party saw a bear, not the monster.

The monster is part of the Esky culture.  I got the impression she wasn't afraid of it, but she respects it.  The monster is stalking the marines, because they killed the father by mistake.

So.  Because I'm the only one who reached these conclusions, I must be wrong.  For my punishment, I will rewatch all the episodes On Demand.

[renatae]

I think you are doing great, Lava VaVoom! IMHO, I believe the Terror is both the ship and the creature, as one of the ships is the Terror.

I'm really feeling for those without captions as I watched the first scenes without and couldn't understand a thing. I have intermittent problems hearing and it's frustrating.

Captanne, thanks for your service! The discussion between the gays went, basically, taller fellow to shorter fellow, "I'm not doing this any more, you coerced (or blackmailed?) me and if you continue, I will report you." I believe he was going to report a different breach, but I don't remember what it was. Shorter guy, Mr. Hickey, I believe, something along the lines of, "You loved it," and some threats of his own, IIRC.

Edited April 4, 2018 by renatae

[slothgirl]

3 hours ago, Lava VaVoom said:

Boy, am I out of the loop.  I must start actually watching this instead of listening to it (captions on) while I play games on my laptop.

Is the Terror the Monster, or one of the ships (named Terror)?

The monster is not a bear.  It is a sentient creature, because it left the girl a definite present which I thought was one of the gutted rats left for it.  It also tossed the seaman down the ice hole.  Bears don't do that.  The exploratory party saw a bear, not the monster.

The monster is part of the Esky culture.  I got the impression she wasn't afraid of it, but she respects it.  The monster is stalking the marines, because they killed the father by mistake.

So.  Because I'm the only one who reached these conclusions, I must be wrong.  For my punishment, I will rewatch all the episodes On Demand.

I think we have been calling it a "bear" (at least I have) because the crew thinks it's a bear and we don't know what it is yet to call it anything else.  I don't like calling it a monster, because that would mean it is inherently bad. It is a creature... but it isn't necessarily a BAD creature, any more than a regular bear is bad for killing humans in its territory when it is hungry. It seems like it is intended to serve as a metaphor, anyway, but we will see.

Your comment about sentience got me thinking and I was surprised how hard it was to find a definitive answer by googling as to whether animals are considered sentient. For the most part, they seem to be, especially mammals. Here is one definition I found:  "Having senses makes something sentient, or able to smell, communicate, touch, see, or hear." Other definitions seem to focus on self-awareness or awareness of mortality. Anyway.. it's not important to the discussion, but bears are sentient by many definitions. You are correct however, that they don't provide food to potential prey or dump potential food down a hole they can't get it out of. 

I got the impression she WAS afraid now that her father was gone, because her own relationship with the "bear" wasn't established yet. This encounter would let her know whether it would kill her or obey(?) protect (?) her. She wasn't sure. Now the relationship has been defined because it brought her a seal and left it without harming her.

Those are my impressions anyway.

Edited April 5, 2018 by slothgirl

[pezgirl7]

4 hours ago, Lava VaVoom said:

The monster is not a bear.  It is a sentient creature, because it left the girl a definite present which I thought was one of the gutted rats left for it.  It also tossed the seaman down the ice hole.  Bears don't do that.  The exploratory party saw a bear, not the monster.

It left a large seal for her, not a rat. I was on the fence about whether it was an actual bear or a monster. I thought this show was suppose to be based on fact, so I didn't know if they would actually add a monster to the story. It reminds me of the smoke monster in Lost.

[Netfoot]

5 hours ago, Lava VaVoom said:

The monster is not a bear.  It is a sentient creature, because it left the girl a definite present which I thought was one of the gutted rats left for it.  It also tossed the seaman down the ice hole.  Bears don't do that.  The exploratory party saw a bear, not the monster.

I'm not ruling out plain old bear.  I'm hoping there is no supernatural obeah involved.  (That usually ruins a show, because it opens the Deus Ex Machina door far too wide.)  Yes, it did bring food for the woman, but perhaps she raised it when it was a cub, and it still retains a degree of affection for her?  Magic / aliens are my last go-to explanation, not my first.

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder - this is the spot to discuss the episode; discussion of the actual events and/or the book need to happen in the The True Story of the Franklin Expedition topic; posts may be removed if they include discussion outside the episode. Thank you.

[Bcharmer]

I have a dumb question. If they are ice-locked and nowhere near water, where did the seal come from?

[patty1h]

The Inuit cut holes in the ice to catch fish and, presumably, seals. I guess the monster may have used one of these holes.  Also, the sailors had also cut a hole, where they dropped the dead native man, and where Sir John was dumped in.

Edited April 5, 2018 by patty1h

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:18 AM, renatae said:

Well, I thought her father got shot, especially as one crew member asked the apparent shooter what it was like. He may have been shot, I forget if they found bullets on the autopsy. But I was replaying where he died, and I saw giant claws on both of his arms, as if he was being held from behind. Maybe the creature tried to save him? I don't know what to think!

Seems to me that the marine who got killed by the monster was the one who shot Lady Silence's father.

20 hours ago, Lava VaVoom said:

Is the Terror the Monster, or one of the ships (named Terror)?

The ship commanded by Captain Crozier is named Terror (Sir John Franklin's ship is Erebus), but one could argue that it's a fitting name for the monster.  And for the state of mind of the crew, for that matter.

[renatae]

11 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

On 4/4/2018 at 1:18 AM, renatae said:

Well, I thought her father got shot, especially as one crew member asked the apparent shooter what it was like. He may have been shot, I forget if they found bullets on the autopsy. But I was replaying where he died, and I saw giant claws on both of his arms, as if he was being held from behind. Maybe the creature tried to save him? I don't know what to think!

Seems to me that the marine who got killed by the monster was the one who shot Lady Silence's father.

You are probably right, but the claws on her father's arms took up his entire upper arm area - just the claws! I wouldn't be surprised if the creature was trying to save him, and I do think he was accidentally shot by one of the marines. But I did see claws!

[CinematicGuy]

I have only two things I wish to say about episode three - 

Franklin’s death scene was well done. 

 

And I have a bit of a man crush on Crozier. Or maybe just Jared Harris. I really don’t know right now.

That is all. 

[Captanne]

I, too, have a bit of a crush on Crozier -- doomed though he may be.  It's a combination of the Irish accent and the (fatal, I think) rosy cheeks.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Captanne

[jnymph]

Well crap.  Part of the reason I was digging this show was Ciaran Hinds.  :/

Poor seal.... but the lady silence gotta eat I guess ( according to Monster bear)

I am crushing on the dude following Francis around. 

[escatefromny]

On 4/3/2018 at 3:04 PM, SimoneS said:

I don't understand why the captain who spoke "native" didn't they ask Lady Silence or the other Inuits around them for help foraging for food to replenish their supplies e.g. fishing.

Maybe plain old British arrogance/hubris.  They needed a Pochohontas.  

That’s what I don’t get in general about the whole northwest passage/polar sea theory and how long it endured ... at some point, didn’t the explorers encounter enough natives to learn that the theory was bunk?

[Netfoot]

7 hours ago, escatefromny said:

at some point, didn’t the explorers encounter enough natives to learn that the theory was bunk?

You do know that they eventually found the north-west passage, right?

[escatefromny]

5 hours ago, Netfoot said:

You do know that they eventually found the north-west passage, right?

Sorry I wasn’t clear, thanks and yes there is a navigable Northwest Passage, now, but it doesn’t quite fit the expectations and some of the wilder theories of the day about what they would find (palm trees and temperate weather).  Funny to think today, you can actually take a pleasure cruise on a route similar to Franklin’s and that the Chinese are trying to make it a viable shipping route thanks to the recent thinning ice. 

The last book I read on the subject, “In the Kingdom of Ice: The Grand and Terrible Polar Voyage of the USS Jeannette” (highly rrecommend!) stayed with me, especially Petermann’s theory that there was a quasi tropical island perched on top of the world. 

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, escatefromny said:

especially Petermann’s theory that there was a quasi tropical island perched on top of the world. 

Well, I never heard that particular piece of stupid thinking!

[Earlwoode]

On 4/3/2018 at 11:44 AM, SimoneS said:

Ah, I didn't get that there was a relationship between the father/daughter and the bear. It is a polar bear, right? It looked like one last week. 

It's a polar bear on steroids or a Super Villain polar bear lol given that he can snatch one man right out of a tent from above and leave the rest intact.  ~Does he fly?  I think he's supposed to be some kind of supernatural creature with a connection to the old man and his daughter.  Totem animal or something?

[Earlwoode]

On 4/4/2018 at 11:33 PM, renatae said:

I think you are doing great, Lava VaVoom! IMHO, I believe the Terror is both the ship and the creature, as one of the ships is the Terror.

I'm really feeling for those without captions as I watched the first scenes without and couldn't understand a thing. I have intermittent problems hearing and it's frustrating.

Captanne, thanks for your service! The discussion between the gays went, basically, taller fellow to shorter fellow, "I'm not doing this any more, you coerced (or blackmailed?) me and if you continue, I will report you." I believe he was going to report a different breach, but I don't member what it was. Shorter guy, Mr. Hickey, I believe, something along the lines of, "You loved it," and some threats of his own, IIRC.

The discussion between the gay guys was that one of them (not the Irish one who drank with the captain) was frightened  the guy who caught them together would rat them out that he basically told him he´d been seduced/led astray by the other gay guy.  The moralising officer who caught them then informed the Irish gay guy that he was basically an immoral rat for leading the other man into sin.  This was obviously news to him as he then told his (now) ex-lover he'd thought he'd had a willing "wife" all winter.  Now I do wonder if they really are gay or just availing themselves of the handiest means of relieveing some sexual tension?  Seemed to happen a lot in places where men have no access to women for a long time.

[CinematicGuy]

On 4/6/2018 at 7:48 AM, Captanne said:

I, too, have a bit of a crush on Crozier -- doomed though he may be.  It's a combination of the Irish accent and the (fatal, I think) rosy cheeks.

Oh, he is doomed...so doomed, yet, the man crush exists. 

[Crone]

7 hours ago, CinematicGuy said:

Oh, he is doomed...so doomed, yet, the man crush exists. 

I fell in love with Jared Harris on Mad Men. Did you know Richard Harris (Camelot and lots more) is his father?