S02.E16: Chapter Twenty-Nine: Primary Colors

[The Crazed Spruce]

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Jughead takes drastic measures to voice his opposition to Hiram's plans for Riverdale; Andy Cohen, Hermoine's friend, visits to lend a hand; Veronica decides to run for student council president; Cheryl worries that she is being targeted.

[WhosThatGirl]

At least I’m enjoying this show again, for the most part. Even if not all the characters.

 

Like really.. I could do without Veronica or Archie. I don’t get Veronica as a character at all.

 

Okay first off.. Chic. Ew. But also we were never cleared that Chic was Hal’s. So yeah. But I still hate Chic. Worst character ever. He’s creepy and does nothing. Any part of this story isn’t interesting to me, whoever his dad is, no thanks, and the creepy stalker vibe. Ugh. Sorry. 

 

Also not sure how I feel about the Andy Cohen stunt casting. Which it totally was. I would make a jumping the shark reference but I don’t know anymore, I don’t even think that exists for this show anymore. But yeah.. so they’re friends because Hermione once refused to be on a housewives show. Yup. Seriously I don’t have anything to say, at this point Riverdale is stunt casting to stunt cast. 

 

Also Hal endorses Hermione? Okay. You know Hal I wanted to like you because you’re dead right about Chic. But I don’t really get why Hal would be all for a prison? The Hal character is so confusing. They don’t know what they are doing there with that character. Which is sad because I would watch him yell about the stupidness of the Chic character all the time. 

 

Also why is he encouraging someone else’s daughter to ruin for student body president? Just wondering. I don’t understand. Also throughout this scene I really just wanted to get to slumber party stuff. I know I said in the last episode that I could deal with the boring stuff of the Mayor crap and the Lodges but god damn, it is now eating up time when we could be watching the slumber party where the five girls do the Dua Lupa music video.  That would be way more fun than this boring stuff.

 

I think Fred is my favorite character on this show right now. I mean I don’t get his hatred for the prison but I like him more than anyone else right now. 

 

Also yeah..that scene in the cafeteria were Th the core four and Jughead being all “I’m not eating” and the rest rolling their eyes because yeah. Both Veronica and Archie suck. I’m sorry. I know Betty and Jughead have made questionable choices but I don’t think the show has ever tried to make us side with them. I can’t really Side with either Veronica or Archie here. Wish I could but I can’t. Also Betty who I normally like is being really naive there and believing all the lies from Archie and Veronica. I like her but still.

 

As for Veronica.. she really is a lying Lodge. No wonder everyone turns against her. I don’t feel sorry for her. I kind of cheered when Ethel threw a milkshake at her.  Also I mean was I supposed to be like her punching Reggie? Whatever. He made a joke and he may be right, Hiram probably has friends who are going to be in the prison he’s building. Whatever. She’s been bugging me for the past three episodes.

 

I am however laughing that Hermione thought Veronica could go to school and no one would bother her or say things to her. Granted she shouldn’t be punching people as a result but.. her picture is in the paper and by all accounts she’s going to be seen as supporting her family. So yeah.

 

Poor Cheryl. Her home is creepy enough without having to deal with her terrible mother and new creepy uncle. In the breakfast scene, did anyone think they were about to poison Nana Blossom?

 

Parents Lodge clearly don’t know how high school works and now how worse it is with social media.

 

Okay Veronica knew if she asked Betty to be her Vice President she would get Jugheads vote.

 

Yay Toni’s a vixen.

 

Okay.. how old is Hiram? Because why is he so into the details of a 16 year old? “Tell me about Jugheads hunger strike?” I mean I know Veronica probably mentioned it, but seriously.  He’s way too invested in what Jughead knows and thinks.

 

And look I want to feel for Archie but he’s being a jerk kind of. Also what was Hiram thinking would happen when Archie would pass along the info ghag SS high would be torn down at the end of the week? That’s not going to make him happier. Also I guess Archie isn’t double ageneting, I should have known better, he couldn’t really pull that off.

 

Slumber party! “Inner circle, cousin Betty” also love toni “is this real or are we playing a game?” As if she doesn’t know what shows she’s on. Also love the robes!  And I love the brief mention Betty made about Chic but unless these girls actually did pull a Beguilded and amputee Chic or Creepy Uncles legs, then why are we talking about it?!?!

 

Also Cheroni scene! Adorable. And an almost kiss.

 

Also no not Nana Blossom! I’m glad she’s not dead but she seems hurt enough that she won’t be able to defend her or they may send her away. 

 

Hey Archie’s mom! Archie’s parents have the best divorce ever! Like she’s still his lawyer?  

 

Um.. Veronica making promises to Ethel that won’t be happening.

 

Also I know Jughead is being dramatic about Southside, but I do t think he’s wrong about Southside being bought up by Hiram. It is. Hiram wants to own everything.

 

Archie’s mom trying to make sense of Archie. Good luck. 

 

Ew!!! Kevin and Chic! Are you serious?!?!?! Ugh. Oh my god. No. No. No! 

 

I like Veronica less and less this episode with any of her scenes.

 

All the teen serpents chaining themselves is kind of funny.

 

I’m all for Betty getting rid of Chic but it’s like four episodes too late and she’s not really doing anything. All she did was prove that Hal isn’t his dad, which again.. she should have not be surprised by this. Hal never acted like he wanted Chic around. Like when she was surprised by this info, it was kind of dumb. And yeah now all she is doing is talking about how she’s Dark and she’s gotten rid of bad men who now are all dead. Like.. just do something then Betty. Stop talking and do something. Otherwise I’m just over this and wish we had spent more time at the slumber party and not this.  This isn’t even fun ridiculous like the gang changing themselves, it’s just boring.

 

Aw. Betty being supportive of Jughead. I love any and all Bughead scenes.

 

 

Also when Ethel brought in that paper with all the info on Veronica was very end of cruel intentions scene. 

 

Love that Josie was in on helping Ethel.  Josie rules. If only they could make her this awesome every week. 

 

Yup, Veronica is a lying liar who lies. Veronica should have known everything would implode. 

 

And look I want to feel for Veronica and her scene with her mom, but she went along with everything that was happening. Yes her parents made the bed but she knew what was going on. 

 

Chic is gross. I hate everything about this story. I also hate it where I think it’s going.  Why was Alice so upset to find out Jughead and Betty were sleeping together unless FP is his dad and ugh.. so not into that at all! I can’t believe it might be true.

 

Good scene with FP and Jughead. Although now that I fear that Chic is going to be FP and Alice’s son, it mars a lot of the scenes I would normally like.

 

Also yeah.. Archie needs to shut the hell up. He really is being a jerk. And he’s ignoring the facts of The Lodges being bad people. They are.

 

Okay Alice claims FP isn’t chics father. But.. I don’t believe that. Also I know Alice feels an immense amount of guilt but seriously.. Alice get your head together!

 

I know creepy uncle poisoned Nana Blossom! And now he’s going to poison Cheryl probably. 

 

Oh Betty.. stop telling Chic how you would get rid of. Obviously chic is going to use it against you and Alice. Also.. just do something to

Him. Stop talking about him and get rid of him. 

 

Poor Cheryl figuring things out way too late. 

 

Also god damn Hiram is way too obsessed with a teenager! Also Archie sucks still.   And what friends is Archie going to round up? They all hate Veronica now and by all accounts him. So I’m curious to who he could round up with him. Look who were all those other people in the light blue shirts? 

 

Also the Bughead scene in the trailer where he asks her to run for President with him. Adorable.  And now Betty is living at the trailer.

 

Also Fred is now running for

Mayor!

 

And now Cheryl’s at sisters of quiet mercy!!!  No!

I liked everything about this episode. Everything about Chic. What a waste of screen time.  But otherwise what a great episode! 

[Dee]

Josie is AWESOME.

Team McMuggs For The Win!

[Advance35]

Conversion therapy is something so ghastly, even fictitious showings are hair-raising.  The Cheryl actress is probably the best out of the younger set but I can't enjoy this part of her storyline.

In other news...... 

Wow, this was Veronica's no good, very bad week and I was HERE FOR IT. LMAO.

For all Hermione's lessons, Veronica still has a LONG way to go, in terms of being as smooth as her parents.  I can't see Hermione losing her cool the way Veronica did, with Reggi.  And I renew my call for a prequel.  Fred's "Your mother and I have known the Lodges for a lot longer then you have."  Good Lord, a prequel with all of the adult characters would be lit.

But OMG, poor Betty.  She WANTS to be a friend to Veronica but you can tell, Archie and Betty look at her and think "JFC."  She is just SO extra.  Offering cupcakes and a kiss. LMAO. I don't know why that cracked me up but it did.  

But I maintain, though Veronica was getting her ass kicked this week, I love her at odds with the masses.  If the writers haven't decided to make her a villainess full stop, they ought to.  She doesn't have to be "Bwahahahah" bad, she can think she's doing the right thing but everyone else has a different perspective.  I LOVE Veronica but WHOA, she got outplayed by Josie. lol.  It was good to see Veronica unable to charm  or buy her way out of everyone's ire for a change.  

Have we ever seen Hiram and Hermione take an iron fist with Veronica?  Hiram telling Veronica "You don't tell us, we tell you."  And Hermione telling Veronica to keep her head down or "It'll get cut off."  

And I'm more convinced then ever, Archie will turn on the Lodges, they lose BIG, Veronica ends the season staring out a window of the Pembrooke, vowing to make all of Riverdale pay.

[WhosThatGirl]

See, I’m not sure what they want to do with Veronica. They can’t make her a villain. She’s one of the main four. They can’t make her be evil. I mean maybe they can find a way to end her sort of as one and try tO pull her back next season but I don’t see that happening. 

[SeanC]

Cheryl being imprisoned in an old-timey insane asylum is the sort of classic Riverdale anachronism that I enjoy.

[Dee]

Betty is just as evil as Veronica.

It's highly ironic that she's bitching about being harassed in her own home when all she does is harass & terrorize everyone else.

[jay741982]

Poor Cheryl. Her mother and "Uncle" are pieces of shit. Poor Nana Blossom as well. More thoughts later 

[UNOSEZ]

Am I supposed to  like any of  the core four?... Archie is a love-whipped gofer.. Jughead is in full on white savior mode... Veronica physically assaults a student knocking him out(solid punch girl)  and not only is she not reprimanded she's allowed to run for student body president.. And then there's Betty.. Who in addition to rudely kicking Kevin out the house like a cheap ho... Got a DNA test on her brother that just outed her mom as having a child that wasn't Hal's(which explains why he hates him)  even after she's told the truth.. (still didn't apologize for dropping that bomb)  she doesn't stop she turns Cheryl's dilemma into her own because of the "stranger" she brought in and how she doesn't feel safe when.. Again.. Besides staring creepily and crying what has chic done... Then threatens him in bed with words and a lighter  equating her emotionally and probably sexually abused brother who definitely has abandonment issues with really horrible ppl... That said big shout out.. To Josie for getting some revenge on Veronica... To chic for turning the tables in Betty.. For archie's mom setting Archie straight..  And Ugh.. To Betty the martyr " I cant stay in the same house as chic"... You threatened him not his fault you were so sloppy and stupid with the dead body.. 

But damn did that get dark at the end with Cheryl being carted off to the loony BIM for conversion therapy...  Still can't believe mom so homophobic... Still believe its something about Toni particularly that sets her off.. Cuz she is wild rude to her

[Mr. Sparkle]

Well! That episode turned the crazy up! 

[Advance35]

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See, I’m not sure what they want to do with Veronica. They can’t make her a villain. She’s one of the main four. They can’t make her be evil. I mean maybe they can find a way to end her sort of as one and try tO pull her back next season but I don’t see that happening. 

I don't think she'll kill kittens, I think it'll be like she is now, only minus the pretenses of friendship.   Those who like Veronica will still find something sympathetic in her, and those who hate her will be given even more reason.  They've turned a corner with Cheryl and the show needs a villain for the teen scene.  There is a whole cast of characters Veronica can interact with, as a counter to all the one's she has fallen out with.   Especially if they have Veronica actively working against the others as opposed to passively.  I want to see the mean and nasty girl we've heard about.  I SO want her feud with Josie and Ethel to continue.

I'm not going to miss the Betty/Veronica friendship because I don't think either is the sort of girl that would get along with the other.   I'm hoping the writers realize that.   I think they would make better foes then friends. 

[ybrik]

Damn Chic is the 'curse of the new characters in a 2nd season' that almost all shows suffer from. His storyline is just so annoying. It's weird that the idea that FP and Alice having a secret child seemed so much better than the actual Chic storyline. His character seems to be dragging the whole Cooper clan down and they were such a fun dynamic in season one.

Kevin what the hell? 

Nice twist with Josie being the one to help Ethel.

Loved Archie's Mom telling him off. He needed to hear that.

It's almost amusing how overdramatic the core four's issues are when compared to the truly horrible family life that Cheryl has. Conversion therapy?!? Wow that is just scary how truly despicable Penelope is. Shouldn't be surprised about Claudius considering his twin killed his own son.

[madhacker]

19 minutes ago, ybrik said:

Kevin what the hell? 

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oh totally, but if this means we get to actually see Kevin getting lucky before the season is over......I could live with it, I think( but I'm not going to bet the farm on it)

Kevin better be leading the charge to rescue Cheryl from the conversion nuthouse

[notcreative enough]

Joise and Ethel teaming up against Veronica was everything. I couldn't see why Joise would do something for Veronica after what the Lodges did to her family. Eye roll at Veronica a 16?? year old promising another 16?? year old girl that her father would be given a job. 

Loved Archie's mom finally giving her dipshit son some real talk. Someone needs to parent this boy and we'll all these brats. It lost a little something with the fact that she never actually sees her son. I so wanted Fred to smack Archie for talking back to him like that.

Um why are supposed to believe that Hiram is this big bad and the only person that cares and is willing to do anything is Jughead a high school student. 

Can I just get a full episode of FP. Who knew the prison gangster would be such a descent parent. 

Poor Cheryl she should have moved in with cousin Betty and pushed out the slightly less dangerous evil compared to the Blossom evil. 

Damn teenage Alice must have gotten around. Hal's not the father she's adamant that it isn't FP. So what homicidal maniac could be Chic's father. 

[Dee]

Interesting that Mary believes Hiram is a crook, yet had no problem with Hermione becoming really cozy with Fred last season.

[WhosThatGirl]

Um I don’t think Betty has been wrong about any of her actions regarding Chic. He’s messed up and she feels uncomfortable. My only problem is that it’s taken her this long. Also now he’s going after her friends? The hell?

Also I don’t care for Veronica at all or Archie and every scene in this episode showed why.

Again I have to say Archie’s parents have the best divorce.

[UNOSEZ]

I hate that I'm defending this waste of a character in chic... But he didn't ask to be found and brought into  the house... That was Betty in full on saviour mode.. And then shit got real when dude from chics vwry real and screwed up past showed up at the door and at least based on the info we have tried  to hurt/kill him... I'm sure there us more to it but u dunno... Before that she was all darkness twins and proud that she found her screwed up lost brother... And I dont have a huge problem being apprehensive abt it after something like that.. But  she basically flipped a switch and it was Chic can't be trusted.. I gotta get him outta here openly hostile.. Invading his privacy.. Catfishing him going thru his trash... If I'm chic I'm defensive as well. This girl tryna take my newly found mama away.  

 

That said.. I hope he's gone by end of season he's a drag and his cry face is a bummer

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. How would anyone be if they had to cover up a murder while Chic did nothing to help? That’s when Betty and any normal person would get freaked.and rightfully so. That’s when chic got real super creepy and cagey with her and that’s when she realized stuff wasn’t good. But yeah he sucks. He ruined what was otherwise a pretty great episode.

Im just not sure abat the writers are going for with the character.

[catrice2]

I cannot believe how much I fast forward now. If it wasn't for Cheryl I don't know that I would semi watch at all. 

[Dee]

Cheryl is trash too.

No matter how hard the writers try to retcon her into a saint, after she spent most of her existence of this show being awful, particularly to people of color.

[catrice2]

Yes, but at least she owns who she is.....I think she is less snarky....she hasn't given it up totally.  She doesn't apologize for who she is nor did they try to write her as anything other than screwed up.   Everyone else pretends to be nice, normal, or crusaders and are just boring, twisted , or insufferable.  I wish Alice would get more airtime....is Reggie still on the show???!! 

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Yes, but at least she owns who she is.....I think she is less snarky....she hasn't given it up totally.  She doesn't apologize for who she is nor did they try to write her as anything other than screwed up.   Everyone else pretends to be nice, normal, or crusaders and are just boring, twisted , or insufferable.  I wish Alice would get more airtime....is Reggie still on the show???!! 

Well Reggie got punched in the face. Also Alice this season is kind of terrible. I miss season one Alice. She was awesome.

The only character I really like throughout a whole episode anymore is Fred. I feel for him now having to deal with Archie who is a real brat.

And I still like Betty and Jughead. They have their moments but they’re still my fave at times. Veronica and Archie just always annoy. I know I was supposed to feel for Veronica but every scene with her was like doing the opposite.

I did enjoy this episode. If only they finally got rid of Chic. Nothing about this story is original anymore. I really feel like I already know how it’s going to end but that feels very spoiler like to post here so i won’t. But nothing about this character or this story is interesting. Not to me anyway. I wonder if viewers are actually enjoying it.

Edited March 22, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[The Wild Sow]

2 hours ago, jay741982 said:

Poor Cheryl. Her mother and "Uncle" are pieces of shit. Poor Nana Blossom as well. More thoughts later 

Cheryl is doing Hamlet with a dash or Rosemary's Baby (or is it Rosemary's Baby with a dash of Hamlet?!)

Uncle Claudius?  Woodhouse??   Tannis Root???

[UNOSEZ]

4 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

is Reggie still on the show???!! 

He joined chuck in the get assaulted by a core 4 and have nothing happen to them club.. Then jughead decided he should run for president because colored dudes can't have nothing of their own on this show.. Its why novice Archie beat chuck in wrestling.. Its why chuck got blamed for stalking Josie.. Its why archie could pull a gun on some serpents.. Its why a native American gang is run by a pretty cool older white dude.. And his obnoxious self important white savior crusader son

[Guest]

It is hard to believe that Betty never even considered the possibility that Chic wasn't Hal's son.   I do not like Chic.  At all.  But I did find it strangely satisfying when he got the upper hand on Betty.

Mary certainly was singing Fred's praises tonight considering that she left him.

Josie finally got a semblance of a story line.

I don't get what's so terrible about building a prison.  Or why it can't be built on hallowed school grounds.  My job used to have me travel thru many small rural towns, and prisons were actually the driving force in many local economies. They may not be the most sought after jobs, but somebody has to do them.

I thought Ethel and Veronica had been fairly good buds in the past.  Is the actress playing Ethel doing double duty over on Rise?  

[memememe76]

I am enjoying all the side characters (except for Chic and Alice has really gone downhill), and Josie has never been better. This was also Molly's best ep ever. But the core four are so bad. Veronica is the least intolerable, as she gets more ire from other characters. 

I am surprised people would have no issues with prisons just being developed in their towns. Especially when there is a viable school there (not that I really care about the Southside, but whatevs). But then I am Canadian, and these for-profit prisons kinda boggle my mind.

Edited March 22, 2018 by memememe76

[Snookums]

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 I don’t get Veronica as a character at all.

They're trying to do too much with her and thus the character is all over the place. Luckily the actress is strong enough to sell the zigs and zags, but let's face it: she's a different person every week depending on whacked-out script  gyrations. Ronnie The Feminist, whose one strong through line is equality of the sexes, suddenly is handing out cupcakes and kisses? Seriously? That wouldn't even be allowed, I don't think, by school officials, and yet everybody's acting like it's cute. Only Ethel Muggs, brought in from the same hoary netherworld they're storing Chuck/Reggie/Val/Melody in, calls it out for what it is. Granted, Veronica doesn't get angry at her or try to defend that crap, but why was it even there? And then later she's all sobbing to her mom about how tough it is to go to school and blah blah blah, and yes, I'll bet it really is, and especially hard to have all your white lies and little evasions bared in a rip off of Cruel Intentions, but still, you'd think she'd know better than to trust her creepo parents by this time.

It's also dragging Archie down the Dumb Bunny path past all his earlier stops and straight into "This Kid Should Not Be Left Alone Or Given Scissors" town. Unless they're really playing a looooooong game with Arch being some kind of double agent, his bizarre depth of devotion to Hiram Lodge simply does not track. Yes, he's got PTSD from his dad's shooting, yes, he and Ronnie are together, kind of. But not in any meaningful way. It's not them against the Dreadful Hs, it's not them trying to gather intel in order to get Hiram out of their lives; as far as I can tell Veronica doesn't even know how deep Archie's into this. They barely seem to know each other anymore past having the script read "they are dating." 

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Besides staring creepily and crying what has chic done... 

Well, he DID kill a guy and allow Betty and Alice to cover it up, than use it as blackmail. That's not nothing. He's never denied it either, or said Alice did it or anything. I admire Betty for pulling out her Dark Side but she's got to follow through! You can't half-ass your threats against a damaged soul like Chic.

Speaking of Chic and his lack of BLOSSOM BLOOD (Dear Lord, I love how everybody in town just says that like its something normal people would say ever) I'm starting to wonder what the hell's going on with his paternity. Because it's been established that Hal's not his dad, and I believe Alice when she says it wasn't HP. I'm wondering if Chic was conceived during any kind of consensual encounter or if Alice's achievement of middle class respectability/mobility was purchased in a similar way as Cheryl's near-rapist's. Because if you're going to go full Conversion Therapy/For Profit Prison there's really no need to not make Chic's father Some Rando Important Bigwig Or Said Bigwig's Son, really. I hope Betty's investigation turns up some more overwrought poisonous vines of plot if they're going to keep this freak show around.

Cheryl once again gets all the stylish points in her insane hellscape of a storyline: I really want to hang out at her house for a slumber party--just make a note not to eat or drink anything. And her small almost kiss with Toni was so sweet and heartfelt amidst the chaos that I nearly forgot to chastise them both for going to bed in full makeup--you aren't going to have sixteen year old skin forever, girls!

[Cranberry]

I like that the characters are all flawed; you can't have good storytelling with a bunch of Mary Sues... but the show is going too far with Archie, in my opinion. He's just coming across as stupid, petulant, and gullible. I hope he's playing a long game with the Lodges here, because right now it makes no sense that he'd trust and side with Hiram Lodge over his own father while knowing that Hiram is a mobster who lies like breathing. Plus, letting Hiram walk all over him and basically tell him the stupid blood oath means that Archie has to do whatever Hiram tells him forever or "there will be consequences"? Wake up, kid. At least he got his dad out of the contract, so he's not completely useless... but he's close.

I love Cheryl and Toni. That scene in the bed was excellent, with them both lying awake in nervous anticipation, and the way they moved toward each other at the same time... they both knew a kiss was inevitable. Of course Cheryl's crazy mother had to choose the night of a sleepover, with the house full of people, to push Nana down the stairs. But, like someone on Tumblr said, "You know your ship is meant to be when you’re interrupted when you’re right about to kiss." 

[WhosThatGirl]

I want to think Archie is playing a long game with the Lodges but this episode made me rethink this. The way he’s acting is just stupid. And then I thought Archie isn’t well handed to play a long con of conning. He needs help if he plans on doing that like from Jughead. But maybe he still is? And maybe Jughead is helping with that? Maybe the whole Archie cuts off the chains was a ruse for show? At this point anything is possible with this show. 

[twoods]

Are the writers trying to make everyone on this show assholes? I can’t believe that these are the same characters I used to love last season. Archie is a complete idiot who has become Hiram’s errand boy and lost his best friend and dad in the process, and he doesn’t even seem to care. His mom going off on him for disrespecting his father was a thing of beauty. Ronnie is unrecognizable this season, doing her crooked family’s bidding like a good daughter. 

Jughead was all crazy about a school he went to for 2 months. Every scene with him is a big martyr speech and it’s ridiculous. I also get Betty for getting freaked out over creepy murdering Chic, but you are the one that found him! At least I got one cute Bughead scene to keep me from going full on ragey. 

Cheryl seems to be the only character that has had some good character growth, and now she’s locked away in conversion therapy hell. Kevin is bffs with creepy Chic so there he goes being the only decent person. 

[Dobian]

I just can't get into this show anymore.  Archie as a character is ruined, his actions and mindset are nonsensical.  Veronica is despised by everybody.  Jugghead is Ghandi.  Cheryl's in an asylum out of the 1930s.  Too off the rails.  Off the rails is good if you make it fun like Gotham, but not this.

[Snookums]

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I want to think Archie is playing a long game with the Lodges but this episode made me rethink this. The way he’s acting is just stupid. And then I thought Archie isn’t well handed to play a long con of conning. He needs help if he plans on doing that like from Jughead. But maybe he still is? And maybe Jughead is helping with that? Maybe the whole Archie cuts off the chains was a ruse for show?

I would welcome this with open arms, smiles and candy, because the alternative: that Archie is choosing a freakin' mobster he barely knows over his best friends and his own father for absolutely no good reason, is both ridiculous and boring, and leaves the character unsalvagable.  They're trying to thread his motivations onto his relationship with Veronica (which isn't the kind of Great Teen Love we see with Betty/Jughead that could sell it) and his trauma over his dad getting shot, but both are too flimsy to carry this level of denial/devotion. They aren't even playing it as him being too scared to say no or to resist and getting dragged in deeper that way. He just seems to be no more bothered by blood oaths and multiple murders than he was by Jughead's hunger strike--not very much at all.

His mom calling out his crap was a breath of fresh air (right up there with Toni telling Jughead you went to South Side for like four days, Mother Jones, calm down) and left me wondering why the hell they ever got legally separated (apparently they are not officially divorced.) That plus Josie sabotaging Veronica's bid for student council makes me think there's at least one writer trying to leave a trail of Plausible Motivation Breadcrumbs in this wild wood.

[thefreeair]

I mean, I have jokes, but... real talk. Sophomore slump does not even begin to describe the nosedive in quality the show has taken this season. Am I watching it wrong? Are we just supposed to experience the show through gif-able moments and contrived atmosphere? My bad for trying to make sense of characters who have no consistent motives or traits beyond What the Plot Requires and Maximum Insufferability? Can anybody tell me where the plot is? I can't find it. I have so many questions.

[Cranberry]

Yeah, if Archie is somehow playing the long game, there's really no reason for him to keep it from his parents and risk them screwing up his plans... aside from trying to fool the audience, which I don't appreciate. And I agree with what others have said; we have not been shown anything so far that suggests Archie's smart enough to outsmart a mob family. He's the sexy lamp of the show and always has been.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Snookums said:

I would welcome this with open arms, smiles and candy, because the alternative: that Archie is choosing a freakin' mobster he barely knows over his best friends and his own father for absolutely no good reason, is both ridiculous and boring, and leaves the character unsalvagable.  They're trying to thread his motivations onto his relationship with Veronica (which isn't the kind of Great Teen Love we see with Betty/Jughead that could sell it) and his trauma over his dad getting shot, but both are too flimsy to carry this level of denial/devotion. They aren't even playing it as him being too scared to say no or to resist and getting dragged in deeper that way. He just seems to be no more bothered by blood oaths and multiple murders than he was by Jughead's hunger strike--not very much at all.

His mom calling out his crap was a breath of fresh air (right up there with Toni telling Jughead you went to South Side for like four days, Mother Jones, calm down) and left me wondering why the hell they ever got legally separated (apparently they are not officially divorced.) That plus Josie sabotaging Veronica's bid for student council makes me think there's at least one writer trying to leave a trail of Plausible Motivation Breadcrumbs in this wild wood.

Yeah. I really don’t understand Archie. But then again.. this whole season started out as being Archie’s season, with Fred getting shot  and Grundy being kikkedand Archie dealing with that and even the writers soon Realized the character can’t really carry that and it became bettys story. And now they are trying to tie it back.. Okay. 

2 minutes ago, thefreeair said:

I mean, I have jokes, but... real talk. Sophomore slump does not even begin to describe the nosedive in quality the show has taken this season. Am I watching it wrong? Are we just supposed to experience the show through gif-able moments and contrived atmosphere? My bad for trying to make sense of characters who have no consistent motives or traits beyond What the Plot Requires and Maximum Insufferability? Can anybody tell me where the plot is? I can't find it. I have so many questions.

I mean I feel you but I’ve complained enough about it- the show will never be what it was last season but here we are.

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

Damn teenage Alice must have gotten around. Hal's not the father she's adamant that it isn't FP. So what homicidal maniac could be Chic's father. 

My dark theory is that Alice got raped when she was a teenager, leading to Chic. Back in season 1, Alice had a visceral reaction to seeing Betty in her cheerleading uniform. So I kind of wondered why that is. My thought is that back when Alice was a cheerleader herself, she got raped by a member of the Riverdale High football team, and it got covered up.

Anyway, I loved the callback to Cruel Intentions.

Also, god, Molly Ringwald really, really needs to lay off the fillers or whatever the hell it is that she's doing to her face. We get that you're not 16 anymore. It's okay. Luke Perry is no longer a 26-year old man pretending he's the world's oldest 16-year old boy, and it's fine. He looks like the 50-ish man he is, and it's fine. Molly's face just looks so odd. I get hitting 50 does a number on people, but I hope she pulls back on fucking with her face.

Edited March 22, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Dee]

How could Archie come back from his dealings with The Lodges?

Hiram & Hermione have shown they're not above murder when people cross them, and Archie isn't only involved in their family business, he's also dating their daughter.

[LadyNebula]

5 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

 

I don't get what's so terrible about building a prison.  Or why it can't be built on hallowed school grounds.  My job used to have me travel thru many small rural towns, and prisons were actually the driving force in many local economies. They may not be the most sought after jobs, but somebody has to do them.

I live in a small coal region town in PA. Not only do we have a state prison in town, but another state institution down the road and a federal prison a few towns over. Not to mention the county prison just over the mountain. A few months ago, the SCI in town was listed as a possibility for closure. There was a panic because of how many people in the area are employed there. Luckily, it's staying put. Without the prisons, this area would be way more economically depressed than it already is. Granted, these prisons aren't privately owned, but still. Prisons equal jobs. 

[Quark]

I thought this was a really strong episode, with all sorts of crazy.

I was just thinking about Archie's Mum, and was glad to see her pop up. I loved her scene with Archie telling him not to disrespect his Dad, that was a really great scene and very well acted.

I've been convinced ever since Chic came to town that he was FP's son, it's nice to have that almost confirmed :P .

Whilst I'm not a fan of Cheryl, I do sympathise with her situation.

Archie's comment "Chained like a lunatic" had me howling.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Quark

[abhi]

8 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah. I really don’t understand Archie. But then again.. this whole season started out as being Archie’s season, with Fred getting shot  and Grundy being kikkedand Archie dealing with that and even the writers soon Realized the character can’t really carry that and it became bettys story. And now they are trying to tie it back.. Okay. 

On the contrary , I think the Blackhood story totally derailed when the focus shifted to Betty, with the weird stalking and the tame reveal at the end.  It was enjoyable with the whole red circle and Archie spiraling but it was unsettling when they shifted to Betty and it showed with the majority opinion that the BH sl crashed spectacularly. 

As far as carrying the show, I think that was some of the best acting that we have seen in the show, period, especially the first episode. Whenever given the material, KJ has shone through. The difference in acting talent manifests itself quite clearly when we have Cole sprouse and KJ Apa acting with each other. In this recent episode, the simple stare down at each other towards the end showed the big gap acting wise with KJ being clearly able to sell that scene and Cole couldn't at all.  Its just that the writers have a weird boner for the Betty character trying to give all the main sl to her. And it hasn't done the Betty character anything good.  

Edited March 22, 2018 by abhi

[AdorkableSars]

16 hours ago, notcreative enough said:

Loved Archie's mom finally giving her dipshit son some real talk. Someone needs to parent this boy and we'll all these brats. It lost a little something with the fact that she never actually sees her son. I so wanted Fred to smack Archie for talking back to him like that.

Um why are supposed to believe that Hiram is this big bad and the only person that cares and is willing to do anything is Jughead a high school student. 

Can I just get a full episode of FP. Who knew the prison gangster would be such a descent parent. 

When Mary yelled at Archie (saying everything that we've all been thinking) and righteously defended Fred, did anyone else carefully set down their glass full of wine, and start excitedly couch dancing and yelling "yaaaassssssssss!!!!" at their TV screen? No? Just me? Alright then, carry on...

But honestly, I LOVED that scene so much. At this point, Mary and Fred are like the only two people on this show that I can actively root for, and would legitimately hang out with and NOT want to punch them or scream at them. Also, Fred desrves happiness...maybe all of this craziness will reignite the flame between he and Mary? 

Oh...and maybe FP too, because DAMN. FP/Jughead scenes are always some of my favorites, and this was no exception. I loved how he hung up on Hiram's ass and went to buy a dozen burgers. Skeet and Cole have a really believable and natural father/son chemistry, and it always makes their scenes so compelling to watch. For all his faults, FP truly has Jughead's back (I loved seeing him and other older Serpents keeping watch over the younger Serpents chained to the school). And you can see how much he loves his son. Give me more FP/Jughead. Also, because I cannot say it enough, Skeet Ulrich is such. A. Hunk. Seriously, total babe alert. it brings me joy.

I think one of my new favorite things ever about this show is how threatened Hiram is by Jughead. A big, bad, nefarious dude with ties to the mob, who is cruelly building a for-profit prison is letting a high school teenager shake him up this much? I love it! Go Jughead!! I really enjoy how the "chaining themselves to the school" drew negative attention to Hiram. 

15 hours ago, Sonoma said:

Oh, and Josie is stunning and bring me more Ethel! Also, I love Lili's and Camila's chemistry. It kind of sucks that Betty and Veronica are being pitted against each other (for now) but I love their angry moments as much as I love their friends/bonding moment. And this is Riverdale, so I can see them being BFFs soon again. Same as Betty and Kevin. Actually overall I think the entire cast has that "friends" chemistry on screen. For couple chemistry though, I think Lili and Cole still continue to do amazing things with Bughead, even in ridiculous storylines.

 

One of my favorite moments from this episode was after Ethel milkshook Veronica, and Josie couldn't hide her laughter. I was laughing too, Josie. You do you, girl! 

I agree that the cast has awesome "friends" chemistry. I think this is largely helped by the fact that they're all genuinely really close in real life. The scene that really punched me in the heart emotionally (just as hard as Veronica punched Reggie) was Archie gathering up the Bulldogs and going to cut the Serpents from the chains tethering them to Southside High. Archie legitimately looked torn before he cut Jughead's chain. And that last look that he and Jughead shared...the hurt, the pain, the anger and disappointment. My heart broke for Jughead and Archie's friendship/brotherhood. 

14 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I thought Ethel and Veronica had been fairly good buds in the past.  Is the actress playing Ethel doing double duty over on Rise?  

Yup! But she's only guest starring on both, I think...

12 hours ago, twoods said:

Jughead was all crazy about a school he went to for 2 months. Every scene with him is a big martyr speech and it’s ridiculous. I also get Betty for getting freaked out over creepy murdering Chic, but you are the one that found him! At least I got one cute Bughead scene to keep me from going full on ragey. 

Jughead's overdramatic way of speaking, acting, and just living are ridiculous, but I love it. I've gotten to the point now where I've just accepted that this show (and pretty much every character on it) is ridiculous. It is unbelivable, crazy, unrealistic, and I LOVE it. 

Bughead is still my favorite. Loved Betty supporting Jughead's strike, and even going to visit him while he was chained to the school. And then agreeing to run for student council with him. Gah, they are so, SO sweet. 

Cheryl........I don't even have words for how heartbreaking her life is. When she gets out of there, she better not be going back to Thistle...manor, I want to say? (I forget the estate name. Sorry!) The thing is, every other family in Riverdale pretty much sucks. Except for the Andrews and kind of the Jones. Oh man...could you imagine Fred or FP taking Cheryl in? Fanfic, write thyself! But for real though, writers...can Cheryl PLEASE have something good in her life for once? Even if her and Toni get together, let her have even MORE happiness than that. If any character on this show deserves it, it's Cheryl.

Edited March 22, 2018 by AdorkableSars
Because Ethel's name is NOT Ether. She is not a class of organic compounds.

[WhosThatGirl]

I’m still hoping Alice was telling the truth about Chic not being FPS but I’m not sure. I hope it isn’t true. I’m not sure why any viewer would want that.

I mean.. yeah, if you take away Chic.. I love everything about this episode. 

Seriously, Archie is terrible. I loved his parents tonight. And KJ can’t really sell me on the character. I want to think he’s doing a long game here but like I’ve said, from what I see on screen he isn’t selling the idea of a long con. 

And veronica.. I’m not really sure what to think of her. She’s a master manipulator. As shown by almost all her scenes in this episode. But I was always wondering how long she thought she could lie to everyone before it would all implode.

And yeah.. Jughead is dramatic but whatever. 

Im pretty much here for Bughead scenes at this point and the adults I think?

The best scenes had to be with Fred and Mary, like as much as I hate the Mayor stuff, I enjoy Fred the most out of any character on this show so maybe it’s just when The Lodges are doing Mayor stuff and bringing in Andy Cohen for.. reasons? But I don’t know. I’d take all this mayor stuff over more nonsense with Chic. Each and every part of the story is Nauseating to me. Seriously, it’s boring, predictable, they haven’t written one thing that’s original about it. They could have, but no. I have a few ideas of what and where it might end up and i bet one of my ideas will come true. And they aren’t even good ideas. It was a bad call to bring in this character. 

[Dee]

This show would be a lot stronger with Mary around permanently. Is there any particular reason why Molly Ringwald only remains recurring?

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Dee said:

This show would be a lot stronger with Mary around permanently. Is there any particular reason why Molly Ringwald only remains recurring?

The only thing that comes up is a money issue but I’m not sure if MR us still needing a high pay cut. I’m not sure. Maybe she’s busy doing other things? The show does shoot in Canada and maybe that’s what keeps her away but there are ways to shoot around actors, and the adults aren’t always around. 

[Mabinogia]

It's funny to me that I pretty much hated the Core Four this ep but LOVED this ep. Maybe  I just like them being morons. Archie is just an idiot. Veronica is hiding her head in the sand about her parents. Betty is batshit and Jughead is...well, he's just the worst right now. But I LOVED FP being all protective and there for him. I LOVED Mary setting Archie straight about respecting his hard working father, I LOVED Alice admitting that she knows Chic is a nutcase but that he is still her son and she loves him no matter what.

I FLOVED every single thing about Cheryl's storyline. So gothic, so twisted. I mean, I don't love that she's getting conversion therapy because that is fucked up beyond belief. I can't wait for Toni to run to her rescue!

I also FLOVED Ethel and Josie screwing with Veronica. The commitment of getting a shake at Pop, getting it to school on time, finding V and throwing it in her face. That's dedication to the cause! And I'm glad Josie wasn't so easily bought by Mr. Product Placement, um, that Bravo guy. This ep was the most I've ever liked Josie. I never disliked her she was always just there to me. Now I want to see more of her.

[Snookums]

Alice was so together, oddly enough, in this ep. Where she admits to Betty that she's not stupid or blind, she knows Chic's messed up, but she can't bear the thought of losing him again and feels guilty that she wasn't there for him? Wow. 

And she didn't go as off the rails as is her wont when Betty said yes, mom, Jughead and I have progressed past hand holding, considering her "haven't always played safely" past. (Although she apparently was fine with a bunch of horny teens hanging out in a remote cabin all weekend, so she doesn't have much room to talk.) How and when did she and Hal meet? I assume it was high school since that's apparently when he tried to "make an appointment" for her, etc., and she may have been a Serpent but I don't think Southside High was always such a shitbox--as another poster speculated, she may even have been a cheerleader. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Well Hal and Alice knew each other in high school , remember in the homecoming episode FP said they got in a fight at prom- presumably about her being pregnant.

[shireenbamfatheon]

Because I've seen it come up several times, I'd like to address the comments dismissing Jughead's plot as being a white savior plot (as well as I can). This show has several issues with the way they deal with their characters of color, and making the original Serpents Native Americans was a terrible plot point and something they should have avoided altogether, and yes there are elements of white saviorism in Jughead's story, but Jughead's zeal and drama concerning the Southside doesn't stem from the writers trying to write him as a white savior; it stems from him growing up poor. I think the show did a decent job showing that aspect of his character and life in the previous season, and that's the foundation of his drive to protect what he perceives to be his territory. The insecurity, territorial attitude, chip on the shoulder, rebelliousness, anger and frustration - these are all attributed to his childhood growing up "on the wrong side of the tracks". The other Serpents had each other growing up, but Jug had no one but Archie who, temporarily, left him too. He had to face injustice all by himself, while the others had minimal exposure to Northsiders growing up.

Yeah, Jughead is a weirdo and part of his isolation back in season one was self-imposed, but he was treated extremely unfairly last season by his classmates as well as the school's administration, who acted on prejudice multiple times. Jug didn't just make up his mistreatment, and if the show was concerned with consistency, the Serpents would have had a harder time at Northside High too instead of just one episode's worth of drama. I know from my own (white) grandmother who grew up poor that poverty leaves a mark that never goes away, no matter how financially secure you become later on in life, and I'm glad the show's exploring poverty, even though it's currently pretty surface level. I'm also glad a white character got to be poor in a fictional story instead of a black or Latin character, which is typical for these types of shows because poor white people exist too.

Anyway, I empathize with Jughead and his crusade against Hiram and the Lodges. 

[notcreative enough]

I'm sure this is something that shouldn't be questioned but with Jughead being all ride or die South Side it made me wonder why he wasn't going to that school all along. FP still lives in the same trailer as season 1 and even if he moved after wife and daughter left I can't imagine FP living on the North side. 

[shireenbamfatheon]

16 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

And then there's Betty.. Who in addition to rudely kicking Kevin out the house like a cheap ho...

1

 

Betty confided in Kevin and he went and ratted her out to someone she shares a home with and is terrified of. Kevin is a horrible friend. I get that he's excited about having another openly out person to interact with, but that was selfish of him and he just made an already dangerous situation even worse. 

On another note, I was really happy to see Josie finally gain some agency of her own. I had a mini tantrum when I thought V had succeeded in bribing her, but my God did Josie and Ethel play her. Finally. I hope to see more of Josie being cunning.

The parents sans the Lodges are all so great. FP and co. looking out for Jughead and co. was heartwarming, but I'm really sad that it escalated enough for FP to threaten Archie. I fear they've dragged this Apprentice Archie plot out for too long. It doesn't help that they've written him without any self-respect with the way he's constantly acting as Veronica's cheerleader. I know it's just set up for Archie and Veronica's fallout later on, but it's hard to enjoy the character. His mom disciplining him was awesome, though, and I'm glad she's sticking around. 

Lastly, Veronica was just all over the place. I did the biggest eye roll when she defended herself to Betty by claiming she didn't have a choice in opposing her family. Girl, you practically forced your way into the family business and happily went along with everything. But now that you're suffering from the consequences, you're not even gonna own up to it? Ugh.