S06.E14: Collision Course

[Hiveminder]

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Since the first day that we met Dinah she was a very confidant person. Even one of her first confrontations with the team she was talking about kicking their asses. She isn't intimated by him so it's very much in character for her to try to play alpha in that scene.

Makes her look stupid though. 

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

 

If William is so advanced in school, why does he need so many tutors? 

Maybe he’s advanced because he has tutors. Maybe he’s being tutored in advanced material not being taught in his regular classes. Maybe he’s good at math and science but sucks at English or history. 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

You've made my point. My argument has always been that OTA has evidence that Curtis is not cool with Dinah murdering Black Siren.

Your argument was that Felicity was a jerk for implying that Laurel might’ve been dead because that was insulting to Curtis as if she could only be dead if Curtis was complicit. But if Curtis might not have been able to stop Dinah, then how is Felicity’s comment an insult? 

Anyway, that’s my last comment on the matter too. 

[lemotomato]

16 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

You've made my point. My argument has always been that OTA has evidence that Curtis is not cool with Dinah murdering Black Siren. I never made any argument that he'd be successful at stopping Dinah. I also don't know if he'd help her cover it up.

So your point is that OTA knows Curtis pays lip service about "not being cool with murder" but won't lift a finger to prevent it, and may or may not help her cover it up after the fact. I guess your definition of "not being cool with murder" is very different from mine and OTA's.

Edited March 3, 2018 by lemotomato

[insomniadreams88]

Question: the new police captain (who’s working for Diaz) offered to resign and take the blame for Cayden’s death, right? (Not rewatching to check)

Imagine if Oliver had accepted. While it’s likely Diaz has whoever would take over working for him, just imagine if that was something else (like the city he wants to take over almost getting blown up) that didn’t go his way since I assume he and the captain knew Oliver wouldn’t accept. 

I still can’t believe he’s the Big Bad. Hoping Oliver’s comment to Felicity about the possibility of someone they didn’t know of being responsible for the missing money (before they knew it was BS) is foreshadowing that there’s someone out there who’s the Big Bad and it’s really not Diaz. 

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Hoping Oliver’s comment to Felicity about the possibility of someone they didn’t know of being responsible for the missing money (before they knew it was BS) is foreshadowing that there’s someone out there who’s the Big Bad and it’s really not Diaz. 

Please please please let Black Siren be yet another villain’s lackey. One who maybe has two brain cells to rub together. 

[statsgirl]

I don't understand why the Chief of Police and the DA are against Oliver. Is it just for the money since they don't seem to bear him any ill will personally? 

I also don't understand the whole plotting by 3-Dragon.  He is supposedly smart enough to plan this whole thing from a year ago and know enough about computers to fake that video of Oliver killing Cayden James' son, and smart enough to put into place the bribing of the DA, new police chief (who he would have to guess would take the job) and various other officials, yet his big heist is a 3-D printer and he doesn't know enough to secure the money before getting out of town while James blows it up.

There's got to be a big twist coming.

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I

I thought that Rene was in the clear at the end of the episode but recovery was going to take time, and since Star City is out of money, they have to ship him to another city.  Are Curtis and Dinah going to wait until Rene is better before they go after Laurel? It makes them seem incompetent.

Rene called Felicity a bitch???? Grrrrr.

 

 

1. I was thinking that transferring Rene was the sign that he was NOT in the clear, but needed specialist and stuff, for now, so I was thinking they'd go with him and help him get closer to stable.  They couldn't even see him at the end of the episode he was still so bad.  But given who we are talking about, I can buy into them just being incompetent.  :D
2. No, Rene didn't call Felicity a bitch.  I had closed caption on.  He said "Karma is a bitch" about them bugging the OTA

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Since the first day that we met Dinah she was a very confidant person. Even one of her first confrontations with the team she was talking about kicking their asses. She isn't intimated by him so it's very much in character for her to try to play alpha in that scene.

You are not wrong, but she doesn't come off too bright doing it.  

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Except why would Black Siren come back to that same alley? OTA went back to the alley because that's the last place they know she was. They can only conclude that she's on the run or someone grabbed her. If you're going back to the alley for clues you are assuming someone grabbed her right after the fight. Which means that OTA thinks NTA had her this whole time and that Dinah's snarling has been elaborate ruse. Unfortunately, OTA has to make weird logical leaps to make their strange supposition make sense. 

 

1

The show was on hiatus for three weeks but given that Oliver had JUST found out Cayden James was dead, it seems pretty certain that we were looking at no more than a day after the previous episode ended.  So while I find it absurd that they'd find a boot print belonging to a person they already knew would be in the alley and decided from it that she was holding BS, I don't find it crazy that it would suddenly occur to them that Dinah might actually have BS in her custody already.  Even her getting herself in on the money task force could have just been Dinah trying to throw them off the scent.  

I think it wasn't entirely unreasonable to think that Dinah might want to draw out the pain for BS before she killed her to make her suffer.  And once Dinah knew about the money, if she had BS, Dinah flat out told her teammates she was up for torturing her to get the answers so we have to assume that when it occurred to OTA that NTA might have BS and just not be fessing up, it makes sense to me that they'd go in and see for themselves.  .  

4 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

I am not a doctor or nurse but.. how can you open a wound 5 months later?  Even bones are mended by then. 

Scar tissue can be more fragile and less flexible. Or maybe he really hadn't fully healed, given his line of work, it seems not unreasonable that he rushed his recovery.  Probably was always sort of injured but pushed through the pain.  

 

3 hours ago, lion10 said:

That's always been an unclear point aboiut what exactly Diggle and Rene are shooting.  I don't think they're just shooting bullets, so what are they?

All I know is what Rene was shooting was lethal enough to hit a car and cause the metal to spark on impact and eventually what he shot blew up the garage.  Those were NOT tranqs in his gun.  And not rubber bullets.  

 

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

 

Felicity is apparently judging Curtis on decisions he had yet to make and actions he had yet to take. At the time she was suggesting that Curtis would be complicit with Dinah murdering Black Siren, Curtis had not yet turned off Diggle's chip nor had he blamed Oliver for Rene's injury. If she wants to suggest that she doesn't know what Curtis' limits might be AFTER all this shit went down, that's fine. But she's basing her accusation on everything Curtis has done before OTA stormed NTA's bunker, I don't think there's enough evidence that prior to the bunker storming that would suggest he'd be cool with murder.

 

They stormed the NTA's lair on the premise that NTA wasn't going to just tell them if they DID have BS.  And at that point, they wouldn't have. It was only once they were there that Felicity got her readings on the number of warm bodies.  Does it make sense for them to turn around and leave and not check to make sure Dinah hadn't killed her and left her in a corner at that point?  It would be dumb not to look everywhere even if Felicity didn't thoroughly assume Curtis would be hiding a dead body or not.  Time for action not more talk.  Would Felicity even have time to worry if Curtis had turned to the darkside?  They were there, so they did a search.  I don't think it has to mean anything more than that when it comes to what any of they were assuming when they burst in.   

28 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, Dinah’s been off the rails for a while now, and til last night - at the very last minute - no one had been able to get through to her. Insinuating that Siren would only be dead if Curtis somehow allowed it is kinda absurd. 

Curits also claimed he had a plan b to stop Dinah with his T spheres but that seems just as likely to have failed as succeeding.  

[bijoux]

If Rene is being moves to a hospital in another city, is anyone on NTa going to remember Zoey? That poor kid is alone all the time and I have no idea how Rene is providing for her. I’m guessing she started working on paperwork to get herself emancipated within the first week she’s been back with him. It’s ridiculous.

[statsgirl]

I think Oliver should invite her to move in with them.  She can share William's tutors.

Karma's a bitch.

[EmilyBettFan]

12 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I'm still furious about this. The lessening of Felicity's skills to prop Curtis has been a huge issue of mine for a long time now but it's never felt more apparent than it did in this episode. RAGE.

Curtis is the definition of a Gary Stu.

[Cthulhudrew]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Question: the new police captain (who’s working for Diaz) offered to resign and take the blame for Cayden’s death, right? (Not rewatching to check)

Imagine if Oliver had accepted. While it’s likely Diaz has whoever would take over working for him, just imagine if that was something else (like the city he wants to take over almost getting blown up) that didn’t go his way since I assume he and the captain knew Oliver wouldn’t accept. 

lol. Just imagining the follow up conversation she'd have with Dumb-ol' Dragon:

DD: "Captain. I wasn't expecting to hear from you so soon. Do you have some news to report?"

Ex-SCPD Captain: "So, funny thing happened to me today. I told the mayor about Cayden James' death- you know, using the cover story we came up with?"

DD nods: "Right...?"

XSCPD: "So, I thought- hey, let's convince the mayor that everything is on the level, that I'm on his side, y'know? Throw him a bone of" she makes finger quotes " 'loyalty.'"

DD sighs, clearly getting annoyed. "I'm assuming you're going somewhere with all of this...?"

XSCPD: "Yeah, so I was all, 'Hey, it happened on my watch. If anyone's to blame, the buck stops here, Mayor Queen. You can fire me."

DD (eyes narrowed, sensing where this is leading): "And...?"

XSCPD laughs nervously. "So he accepts my resignation." She shrugs, forcing a smile. "That's kind of a funny story, right?"

DD: "You are of no further use to me." He turns to his minions, making a slicing gesture across his throat.

XSCPD: "No, wait... aaaaaccckkk!!"

[Midnight Lullaby]

8 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Fair enough.. But what I was responding about was the comment she made.. Cuz she basically is saying there are only 6 life signs so if laurel was there she had been killed and Curtis was cool with it and just chilling... To which he was a bit offended by

No, they were initially offended Oliver thought they had BS and after Felicity’s comment Curtis was offended Felicity hacked them and the other two reacted to that as well. No one commented on Felicity saying if BS was there she wasn’t alive meaning either they didn’t take it as a serious comment or acknowledged it was a real possibility. Curtis and Rene have been helping Dinah look for BS and they all knew Dinah wanted to kill her so OTA couldn’t possibly know suddenly, in this episode, they were starting to have doubts about letting her do it. When Oliver mentions the money in front of them they don’t even agree it’s the priority, they talk about Dinah’s dead boyfriend (the reason Dinah wants to kill BS so why think they had a change of heart and were going to stop Dinah no matter what? Which never even happened, they were lucky she listened to Curtis at the end or she would have killed BS.) and Rene talks shit about Oliver. Just because the audience has the full picture about what they are thinking it doesn’t mean OTA hasn’t reasons to think the worst of them since they are committed to showing only that to them. If Curtis and Rene were so against Dinah killing her there would have been ways to stop her like not planting the bug and not hacking Dig’s chip but they had no problem doing either all while knowing Dinah wanted to kill her. In real life that would make them accessory to attempted murder.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Midnight Lullaby

[DeadZeus]

Am i the only one that was annoyed at Curtis for saying Dinah sounds just like Oliver for saying "it's nobody's fault but theirs"??

Didn't Oliver admit already both side made mistakes that lead to this split? While the noobs are taking absolutely 0 accountibilty for this split and act like children?

Horrible line wtf!!! They are downright treating Oliver like a villain while Oliver keeps treating them with respect (which they don't deserve). It's starting to annoy me bigtime.

Edited March 3, 2018 by DeadZeus

[Morrigan2575]

55 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

Am i the only one that was annoyed at Curtis for saying Dinah sounds just like Oliver for saying "it's nobody's fault but theirs"??

Didn't Oliver admit already both side made mistakes that lead to this split? While the noobs are taking absolutely 0 accountibilty for this split and act like children?

Horrible line wtf!!! They are downright treating Oliver like a villain while Oliver keeps treating them with respect (which they don't deserve). It's starting to annoy me bigtime.

 

I'd say you're in good company there. Only difference is, most people vented their anger in the live viewing thread. You should read it, it's quite funny, lots of cursing at the Noobs.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[UNOSEZ]

10 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So do you think if Dinah had killed BS and Curtis found out after the fact, he’d have told OTA? Because I don’t. It doesn’t matter if he would’ve been cool with it or not. NTA is supporting each other, even when they’re wrong, just because they want to oppose OTA on everything. 

If Dinah had killed laurel based off everything we've seen of Curtis yeah he woulda reached out hiding it wouldn't even make sense as everyone would still be looking for the money.. Secondly by then Dinah would be a mess because revenge never really solves anything for characters on superhero shows.. As to supporting each other even when they're wrong how is that any different from OTA I love em but half the show has been diggle and felicity disagreeing with Oliver and him ignoring them doing what he wants and apologizing later only for them to move on.. Felicity lied to her team put all of them in danger and coulda cost lyla her job when she broke cayden James out with helix everybody was upset for like a scene and then nada

[UNOSEZ]

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

No, they were initially offended Oliver thought they had BS and after Felicity’s comment Curtis was offended Felicity hacked them and the other two reacted to that as well. No one commented on Felicity saying if BS was there she wasn’t alive meaning either they didn’t take it as a serious comment or acknowledged it was a real possibility. Curtis and Rene have been helping Dinah look for BS and they all knew Dinah wanted to kill her so OTA couldn’t possibly know suddenly, in this episode, they were starting to have doubts about letting her do it. When Oliver mentions the money in front of them they don’t even agree it’s the priority, they talk about Dinah’s dead boyfriend (the reason Dinah wants to kill BS so why think they had a change of heart and were going to stop Dinah no matter what? Which never even happened, they were lucky she listened to Curtis at the end or she would have killed BS.) and Rene talks shit about Oliver. Just because the audience has the full picture about what they are thinking it doesn’t mean OTA hasn’t reasons to think the worst of them since they are committed to showing only that to them. If Curtis and Rene were so against Dinah killing her there would have been ways to stop her like not planting the bug and not hacking Dig’s chip but they had no problem doing either all while knowing Dinah wanted to kill her. In real life that would make them accessory to attempted murder.

Yes helping her look for laurel.. To get justice not to help her kill her.. Sure she says she wants to kill laurel they believed that when it came down to it they would stop her ( which is exactly what happened)  they initially bugged Ollie to keep tabs on OTA and then when they found out they were just gonna let her go with the he hope she would honor her word( after showing nothing to back that up)  they did what they did to Jon which I was not a fan of even if I kinda get it.. Still think maybe they coulda found another way

[Midnight Lullaby]

36 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Yes helping her look for laurel.. To get justice not to help her kill her.. Sure she says she wants to kill laurel they believed that when it came down to it they would stop her ( which is exactly what happened)  they initially bugged Ollie to keep tabs on OTA and then when they found out they were just gonna let her go with the he hope she would honor her word( after showing nothing to back that up)  they did what they did to Jon which I was not a fan of even if I kinda get it.. Still think maybe they coulda found another way

Yeah, I could see it working in a court of law..”your honor yes, she kept talking about murdering or torturing that person and she is a meta so I couldn’t possibly stop her if it came to that but I still helped her. I also shot at other people while helping her and my friend messed with this other guy’s chip. I guess we are lucky he didn’t do it ten minutes earlier while he was driving or we might have killed them. Still nothing is really my fault because we got lucky and no one died in the end.” ?

Dinah’s idea of justice was murdering BS. She said is loud and clear multiple times. Rene and Curtis were willing to accept that or they would have done something to stop her, not help her and hope she changed her mind. In season 1 Felictiy locked Oliver in the foundry when he wanted to intimidate a criminal because she knew Oliver’s methods at the time could result in the guy being seriously hurt and she quit the team when he tried to intimidate her because she didn’t agree with him. That’s trying to stop someone, not helping track the person then say “please Dinah, don’t kill her.”

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Rene and Curtis were willing to accept that or they would have done something to stop her, not help her and hope she changed her mind. In season 1 Felictiy locked Oliver in the foundry when he wanted to intimidate a criminal because she knew Oliver’s methods at the time could result in the guy being seriously hurt and she quit the team when he tried to intimidate her because she didn’t agree with him. That’s trying to stop someone, not helping track the person then say “please Dinah, don’t kill her.”

Heck, if they wanted us to at least partially side with the newbies, they should have had Rene or Curtis do something like s1 Felicity did, try to stop Dinah and then try to get BS themselves anyway. Then Dinah would have escaped or something and the ending could have been almost the same except it would have been shown as Dinah just being emotional/set on revenge (as already established) and Rene and Curtis as just not cut out for the team stuff without a leader without showing them as hypocritical (if they also cut that bugging and hacking Diggle's arm and what not)

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

 Felicity lied to her team put all of them in danger and coulda cost lyla her job when she broke cayden James out with helix everybody was upset for like a scene and then nada

When Felicity was blackmailed by Helix to get Cayden James out of ARGUS's hands (the price of saving Susan from Prometheus), she deliberately separated herself from the Team so that it would be all on her and not on them.

NTA knew that Thea told Oliver where BS was and that OTA was going after her to get her to give the money back.  If that was Rene's and Curtis' priority, to get the money back, they could just have let Oliver and Diggle  handle it.  Instead, Rene put a tracker on Oliver and Curtis deliberately hurt Diggle to track their location because their priority was helping Dinah get revenge for Vince.

[Primal Slayer]

It was a quick scene but it was one of my faves. You can just smell the desperation she has not to be locked up again. And the music was good to.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

To get justice not to help her kill her..

Dinah's version of "justice" was killing Black Siren. She made it abundantly clear the night Oliver went to see her at her apt, when she vowed to kill BS that was her only goal. She made it clear to Rene and Curtis her goal was to kill BS and they chose to work with her to find BS.

[WindofChange]

I feel like in order to justify the newbies here you have to basically forget everything they've said and done the past few episodes... That's literally the only way you can fault OTA in all of this.

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

I feel like in order to justify the newbies here you have to basically forget everything they've said and done the past few episodes... 

Because you do. Dinah wasn't intent on getting to Black Siren first because she wanted to see her stand trial for Vince's death, which is the only true possible form of "justice." Rene and Curtis weren't trying to prevent OTA from getting to Black Siren because they thought Dinah was going to arrest her and turn her over to the justice system. And that's fine. Heroes occasionally lose their way and lose sight of the right thing to do. The reason why Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity are heroic to me is because every time that's happened to each of them, they've suffered consequences and eventually admitted the error of their ways. NTA seem completely incapable of that kind of introspection and accountability, which is the complete antithesis of heroism. 

[WindofChange]

11 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

NTA seem completely incapable of that kind of introspection and accountability, which is the complete antithesis of heroism. 

NTA act like the victims and are so self-righteous and self-obsessed that they really don't care about saving the city. This is the SECOND incident where they put their own self interests above the safety of the city and that's why I don't consider them heroes. It also doesn't help that it has never been shown to us why they want to be vigilantes so why should I believe that they're heroes?

[DeadZeus]

My worst fear kinda came true this episode.

NTA actually TRIUMPHED over OTA.

OTA FAILED in protecting Laurel. Dinah could have easily delivered the killing blow.. OTA freaking lost to NTA.

I'm really at my wits end for this show right now damn... I mean... They think the audience likes the new team so much that they actually let them beat OTA. Sure Oliver kicked their asses, but NTA still achieved their objective... RIDICULOUS!

[way2interested]

31 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

They think the audience likes the new team so much that they actually let them beat OTA. Sure Oliver kicked their asses

Pretty sure Oliver kicking their asses is not "letting them beat OTA." NTA didn't achieve their objective at all. They also let BS go and Dinah didn't get to kill her. They both lost, but NTA got worse off of it and didn't even take the blame for it (vs Oliver who actually owned up to it in front of the whole city).

[DeadZeus]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Pretty sure Oliver kicking their asses is not "letting them beat OTA." NTA didn't achieve their objective at all. They also let BS go and Dinah didn't get to kill her. They both lost, but NTA got worse off of it and didn't even take the blame for it (vs Oliver who actually owned up to it in front of the whole city).

how did NTA NOT achieve their objective? Dinah had Laurel and she could have killed her, and OTA could have done absolutely nothing to stop it. They failed at protecting Laurel. NTA won hands down. OTA had no part to play in the fact that Laurel is still alive. Oliver won the fight but NTA won the battle.

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

how did NTA NOT achieve their objective?

Their objective was also "Stop BS, save the city." They did neither. Dinah could have killed her but didn't and accidentally let her go. That is a loss. OTA also lost, but their loss was more contingent on the newbies than the other way around. The newbies stopped OTA from succeeding, while the newbies stopped themselves from succeeding, and even failing more because one of their own is completely out of commission from their own actions. That is a major loss that they brought on themselves, which is even worse since it's paired with them ruining the other hero team from succeeding. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by way2interested

[apbr]

Actually, I think I'm done with this show.  The "other good guys" are as bad as the real "bad guys" and I'm sick of them.  They have little experience but more arrogance than any one on the Arrow's team.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, DeadZeus said:

OTA FAILED in protecting Laurel.

She’s not Laurel. 

[Primal Slayer]

Her name is Laurel by all technicalities. 

[apinknightmare]

I thought everyone's goal was ultimately to get the city's money back (except for deputy mayor Quentin) - they just had different approaches about how to get it from Black Siren. OTA's was to give in to her demands because she allegedly had bearer bonds (which you can't get back once the person is D-E-A-D dead, Dinah!) and because Quentin trusted her (LOL), and NTA's was to do it through brute force because they thought OTA was stupid and because Dinah wanted her vengeance for Vince. 

If Black Siren actually had the money, then they both failed. If Black Siren was bargaining with leverage she didn't have, then they're all right back where they were when the episode started. Except for OTA who now know that NTA is willing to personally inflict pain on a former teammate to get what they want, and NTA because Rene is an axe-swinging lil bitch who doesn't know when to stand down because it's good for him, I guess. 

[scarynikki12]

Episode threads are for episode discussion. If you want to reference previous episodes as part of that discussion then keep it brief. If you want to reference spoilers (which include trailers for upcoming episodes) then give them the Spoiler tag and, again, keep it brief. If your post is about something other than the episode then take the discussion to the relevant thread. 

[DeadZeus]

So some think that Oliver let Curtis leave their battle on purpose? Because he knew he would talk sense in to her?

To be honest that sounds pretty good. But they should have made clear. While watching i found it pretty lame that Oliver does not notice that Curtis is suddenly gone and if Oliver had incapacitated Curtis then BS would have been dead... I can not look at this at any other way than OTA downright failing at protecting BS.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think he let him go because Curtis is as dangerous as a kitten so who even cares about what he does.

I think the message of the episode was that when they are divided they all fail but I might be wrong because I don’t understand what the writers are trying to do most of the times. To take the scene between Dinah and Curtis as an example..am I supposed to agree with them? Was that the point of that useless convo? Because my only thought was “wow, look at those two idiots completely oblivious of their horribleness, I can’t stand them” and I’m pretty sure whatever the point was that wasn’t it.

[BkWurm1]

On 3/3/2018 at 9:16 AM, statsgirl said:

When Felicity was blackmailed by Helix to get Cayden James out of ARGUS's hands (the price of saving Susan from Prometheus), she deliberately separated herself from the Team so that it would be all on her and not on them.

 

 

Technically the price of Susan's freedom was the drone hack for Helix which we've never heard any negative outcomes for.  But you are right about Felicity not lying to the team when she went to free Cayden James in exchange for a way to find Prometheus.  She came to the team, told them her plan, asked them to back her up, they said no.  She said she was doing it with or without them.  There was no lying.  Just a lot of disagreeing. And if Dragon hadn't killed Cayden's son, there's no reason to believe that Felicity would have been making the wrong choice based on everything we know about the man. 

The NTA's plan with BS involved them IMO essentially lying to themselves, first of all, just telling themselves Dinah wasn't just going to kill BS when she got her hands on her. (Even after that's what she'd been swearing the whole time)  But even once Curtis talked Dinah down, the next step in the NTA's plan was to torture BS until she gave up the info on the money, which is still pretty freaking unheroic especially when there was already another plan in the works to get the money back.    

Would BS have kept her end of the bargain?  Lance seemed sure she would.  And Oliver said he trusted Lance.  But even if Lance had been wrong, Felicity is still the one that created their identities and set up all the travel plans.  It seems like they were making a calculated risk but if they'd been wrong they'd be in a great place to scoop BS back up.  

Edited March 4, 2018 by BkWurm1

[AudienceofOne]

I finally watched this episode. Then I decided to come here to say that I didn't think I could handle any more episode with these asshole newbies but found that my frustration was about 1/10 of everybody else's. 

OMG, JUST DIE!!! THESE PEOPLE ARE THE FUCKING WORST. I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

[tv echo]

I just read a review criticizing OTA for invading or barging into NTA's bunker. My defense of that action is similar to my defense of OTA's bugging the newbies when they received reliable intel that someone had betrayed Oliver. 

If OTA had simply asked NTA if they had Black Siren, NTA could've lied (and probably would've, if they had had her). If OTA had notified NTA in advance or requested permission to come to the NTA bunker, then NTA - if they had in fact captured Black Siren - could have hidden or moved her, and then lied to OTA about holding her. Similarly, if OTA had confronted NTA about the betrayal instead of bugging them, then the guilty newbie could've simply lied. 

The only way to get the truth in both instances was to do what OTA in fact did. And they needed the truth, given the stakes in both cases.

Edited March 5, 2018 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

It was a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

[Featherhat]

Thing is, if OTA had politely asked if they had even seen BS Team tantrum would just have been "how very dare you ask that, you guys are the most evil worst ever!"

Even if they had had her and Tinah was thinking about the best way to torture her, they would have justified it, so poo emojii to them (which is more than they deserve).And when OTA found out they'd just repeat the same lines the robot writing app has assigned for the for the last few eps.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Featherhat

[Angel12d]

22 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

And when OTA found out they'd just repeat the same lines the robot writing app has assigned for the for the last few eps.

I feel like the last 4 episodes have all basically been the same because every week it's the newbies being whiny hypocritical a-holes and BS/Quentin stuff. I'm kinda looking forward to the record change next week! Haha.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I can accept people questioning the way OTA entered the bunker but it becomes ridiculous when on the other side you have NTA messing with Dig’s chip and Rene shooting at Thea, Lance and Felicity and coming at Oliver with an axe. One side was impolite and the other attempted to murder them.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Midnight Lullaby

[AudienceofOne]

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I can accept people questioning the way OTA entered the bunker but it becomes ridiculous when on the other side you have NTA messing with Dig’s chip and Rene shooting at Thea, Lance and Felicity and coming at Oliver with an axe. One side was impolite and the other attempted to murder them.

Letting her go isn't justice! That's why we need to torture her for information before murdering her in cold blood. How dare you try to stop us? 

[BunsenBurner]

Earlier in the season I said Alena was the one who is the real villain working with 3D as his sister.  This may still be true but I’m thinking that BS is working for her as well. So maybe the villain for the rest of this season is against Felicity. 

[statsgirl]

@BunsenBurner, if you're right, I take back everything I've been thinking.

Except the part where we're had to much Bird action this season, and all three NTA need to go.

[Angel12d]

4 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

Earlier in the season I said Alena was the one who is the real villain working with 3D as his sister.  This may still be true but I’m thinking that BS is working for her as well. So maybe the villain for the rest of this season is against Felicity. 

We can only hope! (While being sad that potentially Felicity's only female friend is a villain, haha.)

[BunsenBurner]

I’m most probably completely wrong with my assumption. I don’t think the writers are good enough but one can always hope. 

[BkWurm1]

I really want the NTA to turn out to be the real big bads.  That would be some clever writing, lol.  

[calliope1975]

33 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I really want the NTA to turn out to be the real big bads.  That would be some clever writing, lol.  

I floated that earlier in the thread, but I wasn't too serious. However, I'd really like that to happen. I'd even take NTA's realization of that fact as they get redeemed. (But only if they get shipped off afterwards.)

I'd allow a CEG moment a la:

[BkWurm1]

34 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I floated that earlier in the thread, but I wasn't too serious.

I know a good idea when I hear it.  :D