S06.E13: The Devil's Greatest Trick

[Primal Slayer]

It was a little thing but I noticed that they didn't use Sirens usual scream sound in this episode. This one was a lot more tame.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

It doesn't really bother me - Oliver's convo with William was a play to distract Cayden by playing on his emotions as a father. I don't think Oliver really thought it was the end, and I doubt Felicity or Thea would've either. 

I didn't realize/know that. I knew it was done (by the writers) to get James to the place where he'd surrender. I didn't realize it was an act on Oliver's part to play James.

[Cthulhudrew]

23 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Let’s start with the waste of space named Rene. This is 4 episodes in a row that he’s reminded Oliver that nothing’s changed and Team WhoCares isn’t coming back to Team Arrow. Did I miss it where Oliver begged him to come back? My god, get him the fuck off my show.

 

 I find myself kind of hoping that they keep him around as a running joke for the rest of the show, just to show up at random intervals and remind Oliver that they're not coming back. No other scenes or dialogue, just that.

SCENE: Oliver is walking down the street. Cut to: closeup of his face as he realizes he's being followed. Cut to: Shadow jumps out of the alleyway. Dramatic SFX. 

CUT TO: It's Wild Dog, his clothes in tatters. He has apparently been living in the streets for weeks. Oliver wrinkles his nose at the smell.

RENE: "Just so you know, hoss. This doesn't change anything. We ain't comin' back to Team Arrow." Rene fades back into the shadows.

 

SCENE: Oliver is sitting on the john, reading the latest issue of the Starling City Star. There is a sudden sound of scratching overhead. He quickly removes the lid of his toilet and pulls out a small bow, nocking an arrow and pointing it up at

CUT TO: Overhead crawlspace, camera looking down from above at Oliver. VOICE (OS): "Yo, hoss!"

OLIVER: "Rene?!?! What the hell are you doing in my bathroom...?"

RENE: "Don't even think about tryin' to get us to come back to the team, yo. We ain't gonna just forgive and forget."

 

In other news, apparently Double Dragon is the big mastermind? And his plan was to manipulate Cayden James into somehow arranging this whole turn of events so he could take over the city. Except that he very nearly got the entire city destroyed, which kind of seems like a pretty big wrinkle. But fortunately it worked out, and now his plan is back on track. Except that he almost got himself caught and put away. But he's the man! Should we just change his character's name to Xanatos? Ugh.

And the only one who thinks about securing the detonation device was William? Everyone else lights out of the room after the other villains because... who really gives AF? (Dinah, okay, her and Quentin I can see). No one else thinks- screw those idiots, let's grab that detonator!!!!

(And big LOL that Wild Dog and Mr. T get beat up by Anatoly. I like Anatoly- although the writers make his bad Russian dialogue worse with each passing week- but really, he should not be a physical threat to even those two screwups.)

Edited February 10, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Primal Slayer]

What is up with the lack up interviews this season? I for sure would've thought that MG or WM would've given an interview about the big twist.

[KillahBee007]

3 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

 I find myself kind of hoping that they keep him around as a running joke for the rest of the show, just to show up at random intervals and remind Oliver that they're not coming back. No other scenes or dialogue, just that.

SCENE: Oliver is walking down the street. Cut to: closeup of his face as he realizes he's being followed. Cut to: Shadow jumps out of the alleyway. Dramatic SFX. 

CUT TO: It's Wild Dog, his clothes in tatters. He has apparently been living in the streets for weeks. Oliver wrinkles his nose at the smell.

RENE: "Just so you know, hoss. This doesn't change anything. We ain't comin' back to Team Arrow." Rene fades back into the shadows.

 

SCENE: Oliver is sitting on the john, reading the latest issue of the Starling City Star. There is a sudden sound of scratching overhead. He quickly removes the lid of his toilet and pulls out a small bow, nocking an arrow and pointing it up at

CUT TO: Overhead crawlspace, camera looking down from above at Oliver. VOICE (OS): "Yo, hoss!"

OLIVER: "Rene?!?! What the hell are you doing in my bathroom...?"

RENE: "Don't even think about tryin' to get us to come back to the team, yo. We ain't gonna just forgive and forget."

iCackled. Lol. I didn’t watch the episode but heard about it. Missed another stinker.

[tv echo]

17 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

I heard this comment today. Cayden’s son is 35 playing 18, William is 35 playing 12 and Oliver is 35 and looks 35. What’s with all these old guys playing kids?

Btw, I actually checked the age of the actor playing Owen Post because I also thought he looked too old for his part. Owen was played by Jesse Irving, born June 11, 1995, which makes him 22 years old when he shot this episode.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7740946/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t15

The actor actually looks better (and younger) in other pics than he did on Arrow, so I think it's the way Arrow styled his hair...

 

 (Black Lightning video)

Edited February 10, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I also thought the title of this episode - "The Devil's Greatest Trick" - really didn't fit this episode.

I'm assuming it comes from The Usual Suspects, when Kevin Spacey's character says, "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist," when talking about the legendary, mythical Keyser Söze:

However, Ricardo Diaz is no Keyser Söze. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by tv echo

[DeadZeus]

I'm actually kinda surprised that the writers remember Oliver can throw darts.

I was thinking "Oh god.. Oliver failed but Cayden is just gonna surrender anyway.. "But then Oliver threw the dart.. And actually STOPPED the enemy from continueing with their plans. Finally, a WIN!

If Cayden just surrendered when he had the upper hand i would have been PISSED.

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

I also thought the title of this episode - "The Devil's Greatest Trick" - really didn't fit this episode.

I'm assuming it comes from The Usual Suspects, when Kevin Spacey's character says, "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist," when talking about the legendary, mythical Keyser Söze:

 

However, Ricardo Diaz is no Keyser Söze. 

Which is in fact a paraphrase of annol French Philosopher.

Quote

 

The devil's finest trick is to persuade you that he does not exist.

Charles Baudelaire

 

[Featherhat]

Well I guess they think Dragon is a lot more interesting than we do, because he is no Keyser Soze, even if he and KA think so. He's just not believable as a guy who set CJ up for all this (and if he was, surely he could have thought of a less risky plan that didn't get his new kingdom destroyed?) There better be someone pulling his strings. Plus "reign over the city as my personal criminal empire is almost as bland as a "Revenge for Myson!" plot. 

42 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

I'm actually kinda surprised that the writers remember Oliver can throw darts.

Technically that should be a no brainer considering he rarely misses a shot with an arrow or other projectile, but with these scenes, you never know. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Another episode I'm not interested in watching at all. Did they ever explain how the lizard knew how Cayden would react with the killing of his son? I saw GIFs of Alena telling Felicity whoever tried to manipulate Cayden James knew him or something like that. 

[Chyromaniac]

Ya know- there are what? 50 or so other Earths out there. There must be at least one where Laurel isn’t dead or evil, that we can just send Quentin to. Because at this point, his fixation with “the good inside her” has gone beyond being just kind of sad and pathetic- it’s actually a little creepy.

Otherwise, Michael Emerson really brought it this week. I don’t quite think he was “wasted” in this role because we did get some good performances along the way- still, it’s a shame to see him bumped off now.  Sadly, I feel like he had to go eventually, because this show can’t have a season finale without a one-on-one street fight between Stephen and the main villain- and Emerson is not that guy.

[apinknightmare]

I'd like to get some clarification on this 3-Dragon plan from someone in charge - I know the answer is likely nonsensical, but still. 

3-Dragon sets up Cayden James to enact a revenge plot while Cayden's in ARGUS custody - assuming that he will then somehow get out. I guess he could've done some research about Helix and wagered that someone would stage a jailbreak - but...the only person who bothered was Alena, who only knew James for ONE DAY. Lucky break!

3-Dragon's plan involves Cayden targeting Oliver and getting him under indictment, fracturing Team Arrow, etc. so he can take over the city. But he stands by while Cayden builds this thermobaric bomb that he intends to use to level the city that 3-Dragon wants to take over. He then does nothing at all to stop James from detonating that bomb, and once James loses the thread and starts threatening to do that, 3-Dragon...tries to take off, only to be stopped by Curtis and Wild Dog. Was he just going to chalk Star City up as a loss and then go try to take over some other city if he'd been able to get away? 

Was 3-Dragon at least smart enough to siphon money out of the account that Cayden had Oliver wire all the city's funds to? If not, holy shit. What an idiot. 

I like Alena and I don't want her to be a rat, but at this point that's the only way this even remotely works - if 3-Dragon is her partner or her stooge, and she broke Cayden out for this purpose, had some way to stop the thermobaric bomb from going off if Cayden had pressed the button, and was smart enough to do something with the money he stole and told Oliver how to get back. 

If Alena isn't involved, 3-Dragon is the luckiest 3-Dumbass in the wide world. I mean, the dude even bragged about Team Arrow being fractured in a million pieces when THEIR ABILITY TO WORK TOGETHER IS WHAT STOPPED THE BOMB FROM GOING OFF, since apparently he didn't account for that in his grand plan. Lord, beer me strength. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

Alena has to be on Dragon's side in order for this whole mess to make some sense. Him knowing TA would go to her to help stop Cayden and be able to have his cake and eat it to. 

They are so worried about keeping the audience surprised that they arent even giving the necessary information we need to follow the story logically. But I am sure we will get a flashback of Dragon putting everything together only for him to die in the same exact episode since that seems to be the new popular thing for them to do.

[insomniadreams88]

Can someone remind me of what we know about Dragon? Because I wondered if he may have been connected to the black market dealings of the pharmaceutical company Cayden took down that apparently was the final straw and led to ARGUS arresting him and thought maybe since Dragon has SCPD in his pocket maybe he has/had ARGUS agents too, but I also don’t remember anything about Dragon (except the 3D printing of drugs) to figure out if that could even work? 

[apinknightmare]

25 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Can someone remind me of what we know about Dragon? Because I wondered if he may have been connected to the black market dealings of the pharmaceutical company Cayden took down that apparently was the final straw and led to ARGUS arresting him and thought maybe since Dragon has SCPD in his pocket maybe he has/had ARGUS agents too, but I also don’t remember anything about Dragon (except the 3D printing of drugs) to figure out if that could even work? 

I don’t know if the two are or were intended to be connected, and I don’t really want to rewatch to get the answer. Hopefully someone remembers. 

 

I’d th ink if there was intended to be a link there that 3-Dragon would’ve mentioned it before he stabbed Cayden with the knife he printed out, but who knows with this show. 

[KirkB]

I'll say this much. If there was ever any question of William's parentage it's gone now. Only Oliver Queen's son would find out there is a massive bomb threatening the city and decide going after his dad (and thus closer to the bomb) would somehow make him safer. Though I have to ask, the kid's supposed to be like 13 or something so why are they keep writing him to act like he's 8?

At least now I understand how Star Labs pays its bills. Barry apparently has been running his own private taxi service.

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, KirkB said:

At least now I understand how Star Labs pays its bills. Barry apparently has been running his own private taxi service.

Barry is Central Cities highest rated Uber driver! 

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, KirkB said:

I'll say this much. If there was ever any question of William's parentage it's gone now. Only Oliver Queen's son would find out there is a massive bomb threatening the city and decide going after his dad (and thus closer to the bomb) would somehow make him safer.

No, no, not make William himself safer -- he was going along to save Oliver.  (But yes, it does prove William's parentage. Apparently the idea of being responsible for saving everyone is passed down in the genes.

On the other hand, he was the only one who thought to pick up the detonation device so maybe there is something to him being there after all.

[BkWurm1]

On 2/9/2018 at 7:46 AM, Angel12d said:

As for Alena, I’m gonna need a better explanation for Felicity suddenly needing help all the time tbh. I mean, the masks don’t have someone to take over if they’re tired. That’s why I’m leaning towards Alena being bad because later they can have Felicity be like “I let her in the bunker at my systems, she had access to everything!” ??

 

The only reason I've been ok with Alena helping Felicity is because they have been going up against a master hacker that had already gotten in and shut Felicity out of so much before they even knew there was a problem so between the ticking clock of the city being held hostage combined with having to get past Cayden's handiwork, that I accept Felicity could use a second pair of hands helping out.  They don't have time for her to work it at her own pace and since Alena was familiar with James's habits in hacking she could be extra helpful, more than just Curtis.

Alena as the inside man/partner would make this plan of DDDragon's make some sense (assuming that Alena's job also included a way to stop the bomb).  But from the look of it, we are supposed to believe that DDDragon was doing this without her.  Alena had no way out of the city and there's no reason at this point that I can see to her advantage to prove someone on Jame's current team was the one responsible for killing Owen.  Proving Oliver innocent could have been the plan to get Cayden to not blow up the city, but outing the info that the traitor was on his team, works against that.  Not to mention that Diaz sure wasn't acting like he thought the bomb was not going to go off.  And when it comes to Alena, she doesn't seem to have gotten anything out of this other than getting almost killed.  

Really, Dicky's plan makes no sense to take over the city.  Unless taking over the city was just his plan B?  Cause originally apparently he was doing this for his fourth of $70million. That's only $17.5 million dollars.  Nothing to sneeze at but also not IMO worth the Rube Goldberg-like plan.  There had to be an easier and quicker way to make some cash.  But if it all fell through, sure, stepping up and trying to salvage something also would make sense.   But no way this was his plan the whole time.  

[thuganomics85]

Quote

Sadly, I feel like he had to go eventually, because this show can’t have a season finale without a one-on-one street fight between Stephen and the main villain- and Emerson is not that guy.

That is a fair point, although the workaround I still wanted for that was for Cayden to dramatically say "I'd like to introduce you to my colleague who will be taken you on, Mr. Queen", and out pops Jim Caviezel in his awesome suit, kneecaps the Noobs for the hell of it, and then proceeds to have an epic throw down with Oliver.  

Or maybe I really just need to rewatch Person of Interest since it's all in my head again,  Damn you and your awesomeness, Michael Emerson!

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

That is a fair point, although the workaround I still wanted for that was for Cayden to dramatically say "I'd like to introduce you to my colleague who will be taken you on, Mr. Queen", and out pops Jim Caviezel in his awesome suit, kneecaps the Noobs for the hell of it, and then proceeds to have an epic throw down with Oliver.  

Or maybe I really just need to rewatch Person of Interest since it's all in my head again,  Damn you and your awesomeness, Michael Emerson!

Omg how awesome would that have been! Especially the Noob kneecapping bit! Is it too late to crowd fund this?

[bijoux]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Barry is Central Cities highest rated Uber driver! 

I don’t know. There’s the nasty case of motion sickness.

[BunsenBurner]

More like $140 million shared. This dreck went on for 2 weeks

[SmallScreenDiva]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

I don’t know. There’s the nasty case of motion sickness.

Also, the danger of catching fire.

[bijoux]

46 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Also, the danger of catching fire.

Right. And then you may get fined for indecent exposure. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

That is a fair point, although the workaround I still wanted for that was for Cayden to dramatically say "I'd like to introduce you to my colleague who will be taken you on, Mr. Queen", and out pops Jim Caviezel in his awesome suit, kneecaps the Noobs for the hell of it, and then proceeds to have an epic throw down with Oliver.  

Or maybe I really just need to rewatch Person of Interest since it's all in my head again,  Damn you and your awesomeness, Michael Emerson!

That’s what I was hoping for ever since I saw Emerson appear! I was totally unspoiled because I don’t read articles or spoilers for this and Flash.

As I stated above, I really really REALLY wanted EVUHL!FINCH to have a competent ROCK STAR of a henchman and for Caviezel to be that guy and to see an EPIC fight as those two actors are great fighters.

[BkWurm1]

12 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

More like $140 million shared. This dreck went on for 2 weeks

I don't think it went on in show for 2 weeks.  They were out of money at 70 mil so I assume that was all they paid.

[Hiveminder]

They might have gotten up to 80 or 90 mil, but no way they managed to swing 140. 

[BunsenBurner]

10 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't think it went on in show for 2 weeks.  They were out of money at 70 mil so I assume that was all they paid.

I respectfully disagree  

I think if  Star City thinks it’s going to blow up they are going to find the money especially if the Mayor knows that he hasn’t been able to figure out a way to stop him. CJ was too eager to have revenge on OQ/GA/the Mayor. 

[lemotomato]

I assumed that 613 picks up right after 612, since they discover that the video footage was fake at the end of 612. Was there any indication in the show that a week had passed?

[Morrigan2575]

57 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I assumed that 613 picks up right after 612, since they discover that the video footage was fake at the end of 612. Was there any indication in the show that a week had passed?

No, this episode seemed to be a direct follow up and the $70 Million mention indicates that 7 days had passed since it was $10 million per day.

[millennium]

On 2/8/2018 at 10:17 PM, KenyaJ said:

Remember how excited we all were this summer when we found out Michael Emerson was playing Cayden James? Yeah, me neither. What a complete waste of a great actor. He’s a total gentleman, though, because he’s said the nicest things about the show and his castmates. That he could be that generous after this crappy storyline proves what a professional he is. I’ll miss him, but Cayden was such a disappointment that I couldn’t be less ambivalent that he’s dead.

Truth be told, after tonight, there are so many characters I want dead that I don’t even know where to begin.

Let’s start with the waste of space named Rene. This is 4 episodes in a row that he’s reminded Oliver that nothing’s changed and Team WhoCares isn’t coming back to Team Arrow. Did I miss it where Oliver begged him to come back? My god, get him the fuck off my show.

And this pains me to say, but I’m kind of hoping that BS, Dinah, or anybody kills Quentin to put him and us out of our misery. I can only hope that tonight’s scenes were the writers’ acknowledgement that Quentin has completely lost his mind. There’s no other explanation for him thinking that a woman who’s NOT HIS DAUGHTER is his daughter. And my god, is Laurel so interchangeable to him that he’ll accept any old murderer as a viable substitute as long as she has the right face? 

I don’t want William to die, because he’s just a kid, Oliver would be devastated, and I was loving the Queen family dynamic up ’til now. But clearly his intelligence only applies to book learning. Felicity’s going to have to keep giving him the “your dad’s gonna be okay speech” the same way she has to keep giving Oliver the “don’t give up; find another way” speech. Thank god she loves those knuckleheads. They must completely exhaust her. Oliver’s last scene with William was really nice, though.

Overall, this episode was so, so dumb. Made worse by the fact that nothing will ever convince me Dragon was smart enough to have been behind Owen's death. Feh.

 

Kill off the kid, all the noobs, Quentin Lance and that damn Anatoly.    This show is infested with idiots.  Lance and William bring the action to a full, grinding stop.

It's disheartening but not surprising that the writers are still shamelessly recycling Batman scripts.   A terrorist cuts the city off from the rest of the world and starts a bomb ticking.   Should I give them props for not having Oliver save the city by jumping in the Arrow-copter and flying the bomb out over the ocean?

The cameo by the Flash was absurd.   If the Flash can show up to chauffeur Oliver and Diggle out to the roadblock, why not ask him to provide a far more valuable service: help find and defuse the ticking time-bomb by midnight.   The writers have no respect whatsoever for the audience.

But the noobs are the absolute worst.   I would PAY to see Oliver beat Rene to within an inch of his life.   But of course his last words would be, "This don't change anything, Hoss."

Edited February 14, 2018 by millennium

[BkWurm1]

18 hours ago, millennium said:

and that damn Anatoly.

Aww.  What did poor Anatoly do?  Lol.  

[millennium]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Aww.  What did poor Anatoly do?  Lol.  

I have never enjoyed Anatoly and the ever-annoying Bratva storyline.

On a positive note, I think the writers have finally fine-tuned the Oliver-Felicity relationship to a point where it is warm, credible and not gag-inducing.   Felicity is a great character but the dosage has to be exactly right for it to work.   

I also like Katie Cassidy better as Black Siren than as Laurel, although it's a shame the character is being squandered on the cringe-worthy Quentin storyline. 

[AudienceofOne]

So the entire first half of this season is predicated on the idea that a brilliant hacker didn't bother to check the metadata of a video purporting to show the death of his son? 

On 09/02/2018 at 2:16 PM, Lantern7 said:

Great . . . the team is still fractured, Quentin is slowly going insane, William is getting wiggy, the really interesting main bad guy is now dead, and the least interesting one is now the Big Bad. And what does Dragon want to do? Take over Star City. I mean . . . really? Is there pirate gold buried under the entire city that warrants taking it over? It's always four steps away from Gotham City in the most dire Batman story. Any smart person would have left by now. And I'm thinking Reverse Flash never tried it because of the horror stories Damien and Malcolm told him.

I was thinking through this entire episode that this whole "save my city" thing made a lot more sense in season 1. Now I'm just like... it's 2018 guys and the world is a big, amazing interconnected place. Star City really isn't all that, surely? Anybody watching this would think we still lived in mediaeval city states.

On 09/02/2018 at 2:17 PM, KenyaJ said:

I don’t want William to die, because he’s just a kid, Oliver would be devastated, and I was loving the Queen family dynamic up ’til now. But clearly his intelligence only applies to book learning. Felicity’s going to have to keep giving him the “your dad’s gonna be okay speech” the same way she has to keep giving Oliver the “don’t give up; find another way” speech. Thank god she loves those knuckleheads. They must completely exhaust her. Oliver’s last scene with William was really nice, though.

William is evil. It's the only explanation for this behaviour. You watch - if this show gets a season 7 he's the Big Bad. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the Big Bad already. On account of being very clearly evil.

PS Only 75% of that was facetious.

On 09/02/2018 at 2:53 PM, thuganomics85 said:

That said, no way does Diaz have the technological know how (and frankly smarts) to pull all of this off, so I have to think someone else is in league with him.  I worry it's Alena.

If it was Alena, then one thing about this season would finally make damn sense. If it was Alena, then it would explain why the video could have been good enough to fool Cayden James and why Diaz wasn't worried that the city was actually going to be destroyed. Alena went in to help them reconstruct the real video to get to Cayden knowing he'd call off the bomb attack when he knew. I still don't know why Oliver didn't just tell Cayden he was in Hub city when his son was killed and provide him with evidence of that.  

On 09/02/2018 at 2:55 PM, KenyaJ said:

But I feel like her days on the show are numbered. Once Dinah and Quentin come back to their senses, what's her purpose on the show? Being a henchwoman to random villains? A redeemed BS would be redundant of BC and have even less of a purpose on the show. 

I apologise for being coarse, but I think you've forgotten the giant hard-on somebody on this show has for KC. She should have been long gone, but she's still here chewing scenery and even in the world's most ridiculous redemption plotline. Now they're destroying Dinah's character (admittedly, there wasn't much to destroy) so I think it's moderately likely we're getting KC back as Canary.

On 09/02/2018 at 3:54 PM, Hiveminder said:

I was getting some serious Stephen King’s Misery vibes in the Quentin/Laurel car scene. Quentin’s going to make my second hand embarrassment kick in. 

On 10/02/2018 at 12:26 AM, benteen said:

Quentin is seriously going into Misery territory with Fake Laurel.  Seriously, how much longer until he's holding a sledgehammer while she's tied to bed with a block of wood between her ankles?

Any redemption plan that involves manacles is not a sane redemption plan.

Quote

The William parts were stupid, but not as bad as I had prepared myself for. I can’t blame him too much since it was for plot stupid. Every Flarrowverse character has to suffer through it at least once. 

No, William is evil. This episode established it for sure.

 

Quote

I wanted to smack Curtis when he and Rene were going after Anatoly and Curtis made his little comment about getting in trouble as soon as they start working with Oliver. You’re a vigilante Curtis. If there’s no trouble involved when you’re not working with Oliver you’re probably not doing it right. What, does he expect to just show up in his dumb jacket, make a clever quip, and watch while the criminals defeat themselves?

 

I cannot adequately express my hatred for Team Loser. They are the fucking WORST. But that line nearly caused steam to come out of my ears like some sort of cartoon. I'd love to know what else Oliver is responsible for. Climate change? The collapse of the Roman Empire? The Korean War?

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

I apologise for being coarse, but I think you've forgotten the giant hard-on somebody on this show has for KC. She should have been long gone, but she's still here chewing scenery and even in the world's most ridiculous redemption plotline. Now they're destroying Dinah's character (admittedly, there wasn't much to destroy) so I think it's moderately likely we're getting KC back as Canary.

I actually don't think anyone on this show has a hard-on for her, which is why they were more than happy to kill her off in S4. It feels to me like she's just around because it was dictated from on high, not because anyone on the show was excited to tell Black Siren's story.  So far, her story isn't even about her; she's just a supporting character in Quentin's story (and before that, in Cayden's story). Oliver couldn't care less about her, which adds to the feeling that she's just on the show for "reasons" and not because anyone had a real plan for her character. 

So yes, I wouldn't be surprised to see her back next season, because I don't think that decision is up to the show. But even if she comes back, it's hard for me to imagine her being any more integrated into the show than she is right now.

[AudienceofOne]

11 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

 It feels to me like she's just around because it was dictated from on high,

Was what I was referring to

[Mellowyellow]

4 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

William is evil. It's the only explanation for this behaviour. You watch - if this show gets a season 7 he's the Big Bad. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the Big Bad already. On account of being very clearly evil.

PS Only 75% of that was facetious.

 

No, William is evil. This episode established it for sure.

 

Lol I don't mind William anymore but your post really cracked me up! 

There, there. I have made peace with the stupidity of the Arrowverse in general and am feeling zen for today. 

(Now watch them take that on as a challenge and up the stupidity in the remaining episodes!)

[statsgirl]

From the social media thread:

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

-- On whether we'll see William try to step into his dad's footsteps of being a hero, MG referenced a scripted 613 scene that was cut because there wasn't enough time, where William is in the lair with Oliver and he looks over toward where the bow is, and Oliver sees him looking and goes, "maybe when you're in high school." MG said that maybe this deleted scene will be on the DVD.

I was trying to think whether this scene would have made the episode better or worse, and I think I would have liked it in because it would have make William a little less stupid for following Oliver.  Not a lot but maybe a little since he was thinking of becoming a vigilante himself.

[bijoux]

Maybe not so much high school, Oliver!

[statsgirl]

Maybe Oliver is a fan of Teen Titans.

[teenj12]

On 2/15/2018 at 9:53 PM, statsgirl said:

From the social media thread:

I was trying to think whether this scene would have made the episode better or worse, and I think I would have liked it in because it would have make William a little less stupid for following Oliver.  Not a lot but maybe a little since he was thinking of becoming a vigilante himself.

I'm glad it was cut. It's way too soon for a scene like that. 

[statsgirl]

I just watched this episode on repeat because I'm going through Arrow withdrawal.  And concluded that while Michael Emerson is so, so good, the episode itself is pretty boring.  It's dark, there are a bunch of people who are angry (NTA, Team Villain) and others who are going crazy (Quentin), and I don't care about NTAs hissy fits any more. At least Thea got to show up, and Anatoly was good with the quippy lines.

Cayden James telling BS that she's not the one who killed his son because she's not a bad person like that was just ridiculous. He just saw her multiple times kill people after he had told her not to.  Telling her he doesn't believe she did it because she's not smart enough I could buy but not because she's not a bad person like that is absurd.

I wish the show would have picked a side and stuck with it, either set up the steps to redeem her or make her full out villain. This wanting to have their cake and eat it too weakens the show.

[tv echo]

613 (The Devil’s Greatest Trick) – No Oliver Queen voiceover intro.

613 (The Devil's Greatest Trick) – Alena tells Oliver that Cayden James might be beyond reason:
Oliver (entering with Diggle): "Cayden is going to detonate the bomb in four hours. Where are we with the video?"
Felicity: "Well, we're running our photographic analysis algorithm to reveal the original footage."
Diggle: "How long will that take?"
Alena: "As long as it takes. The algorithm Felicity and Curtis wrote works wonders on a still image, but this is 24 fps video we're talking about here, so..."
Oliver: "Right. Cayden just told us we're running out of time."
Alena: "There's something you should consider. You're putting all of your chips down on a bet that he'll spare the city if he thinks you're not responsible for his son's death."
Diggle: "That's because it's the only play that we have, Alena."
Alena: "I'm just saying you might be trying to reason with a man who's beyond reason."

613 (The Devil's Greatest Trick) – Felicity and Alena identify the killer of Cayden's son as a paid assassin named Carl Iskov:
Alena: "Got it!"
Oliver: "What? (Goes to watch video of Owen Post's murder on the monitor) I've seen this. It's bogus. You said you had something?"
Alena: "Yeah. The whole thing was a massive deception. Owen was never collateral damage like Cayden was made to think. He was the real target the whole time."
(Computer works to show an unknown man under the Green Arrow mask in the video.)
Oliver: "Who is that?"
Felicity: "Facial recognition just picked him up as Carl Iskov. Paid assassin."
Diggle: "With a bow and arrow?"
Felicity: "Bow and arrow's not his usual M.O. I'm guessing it's a special request by whoever hired him to kill Cayden's son."
Diggle: "All to set you up. We need to have a conversation with this Iskov and find out who hired him."
Oliver: "He's dead."
Diggle: "What?"
(Oliver turns and looks at Felicity.)
Felicity: "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The assassin was assassinated not long after Owen Post."
Oliver: "We need to know where Cayden James is right now."
Alena: "Got him."
Felicity: "I guess that Cayden doesn't care about people knowing his location now that his bomb is about to go off."
Alena: "He's almost on the I-86."
Felicity: "He's psycho but he's smart. I mean, he doesn't want to be anywhere near the boom when the boom goes boom."

613 (The Devil's Greatest Trick) – Oliver and Diggle tell Felicity and Alena that they have to deliver Diaz, Anatoly and Black Siren to Cayden:
Alena: "You got to be kidding me? Please tell me you're kidding me."
Oliver: "The only way to stop James from destroying the city is to deliver him his people."
Felicity: "Lead them to the slaughter, you mean."
Oliver: "I won't let that happen."
Diggle: "Right now that's our only option."
Alena: "You don't even know for sure that one of them did it. I mean, none of them were working for Cayden when we received the video."
Oliver: "But they were working for him when he received the doctored photo. It has to be one of those people, either Diaz or Anatoly or Black Siren."
Alena: "You hope. What if Cayden is lying?"
Felicity: "Well, we got bigger problems than that. I mean, what makes you think that we can find Cayden's BFFs if he can't."
Diggle: "If they're smart, they're out of the city by now."
Oliver: "They're smart, but so is he. He grouped them together by promising to fly them out before the blast."
Felicity: "Thank goodness for small favors and gullible bad guys."
Diggle: "By now they're worried that Cayden might not make good on that promise."
*  *  *
Oliver: "Alena."
Alena: "Yeah, we're running facial recog and Cayden gave us back satellite control, but -"
Felicity: "Our usual tricks aren't working."
Diggle: "Oliver, we need the rest of the team."
Oliver: "Agreed."

613 (The Devil's Greatest Trick) – After capturing Black Siren, the teams divide up to go after Cayden, Diaz and Anatoly:
Oliver: "Dinah. We do not just execute people."
Dinah: "No. You just let them die."
Diggle: "Can we continue this later? Anatoly and Diaz are still in the wind."
Felicity (over comms): "Correction. Ricardo Diaz was in the wind. Cayden's satellite just picked him up headed south."
Rene: "Our team can take down Diaz."
Felicity (over comms): "Okay. I'm sending you the GPS coordinates... now."
Dinah: "I'm staying here. I'm not letting her out of my sight."
Quentin: "Ohhh... so we're letting the foxes guard the henhouses now?"
Oliver: "Quentin, Canary, you keep eyes on Black Siren. Wild Dog, Terrific, you go after Diaz. Overwatch, you let me know when you have eyes on Anatoly, and Spartan and I will be ready to move. Put me through to Cayden."

613 (The Devil's Greatest Trick) – Felicity tries to reassure William and locates Anatoly:
William: "Where's my dad? He said he'd be right back."
Felicity: "Umm... yeah, I know. He will. It's just that... things didn't go as he planned tonight - the way any of us planned. And so, it's taking a long time. He's gonna be okay. Okay?"
William: "Okay."
(Computer beeps.)
Felicity (over comms): "I've got eyes on Anatoly and a few of his friends. (Alena runs up) Looks like they got themselves a helicopter."

613 (The Devil's Greatest Trick) – The teams capture Anatoly and Diaz; and Cayden gives them a rendezvous location:
Diggle (over comms): "Overwatch, we got him."
Felicity (over comms): "Curtis and Rene got Ricardo Diaz. That makes us 3 for 3."
*  *  *
Oliver (over comms): "Call James."
*  *  *
Oliver (over comms): "We have all three. Where do you want them?"
Cayden (over comms): "Meet me at the abandoned theatre on Jefferson Avenue."
Felicity (over comms): "I'm on it. I'll call Curtis and Rene."
Thea: "I'll call Quentin."
Alena: "I'll keep an eye on Cayden."

613 (The Devil's Greatest Trick) – Cayden's detonator interferes with Black Siren's power dampening collar and disables it:
Felicity: "Ohmygod!"
Thea; "What?"
Alena: "The past three minutes, Cayden's detonator has been emitting a 76 gigahertz field."
Felicity: "Now it's spiking!"
Alena: "Okay."
Thea: "What does this mean?"
Felicity: "It means there's something wrong with the bomb!"
*  *  *
Alena: "Signal's spritzing again! The closer that Laurel gets to Cayden, the bigger the frequency spikes on the detonator."
Felicity: "No, it's not the detonator."
*  *  *
Felicity (over comms): "Oliver, you need to get Laurel away from Cayden right now! His detonator is interfering with her power dampening collar!"
*  *  *
Felicity (over comms): "Guys! You okay! You copy?"
Diggle (over comms): "Overwatch, we're fine!"
Felicity (over comms): "Okay, thermal imaging reads everyone's still inside, but they've gone in different directions."

613 (The Devil's Greatest Trick) – After capturing Cayden James, OTA and NTA split up again:
Oliver: "Where are we?"
Felicity: "By 'we', you mean Anatoly, Diaz and Laurel?"
Alena: "Completely in the wind."
Rene: "Again?"
Alena: "Again."
Thea: "Okay, Quentin's walking Cayden James into booking right now."
Dinah: "I know what you're all going to say, but I think finding Laurel needs to be our first priority."
Diggle: "Don't make this personal, Dinah."
Curtis: "Or, you know, more personal."
Dinah: "You heard her. She is the one who had Cayden James' son killed. She is the one who set all of this into motion."
Oliver: "You don't know that."
Dinah: "She confessed!"
Rene: "She was pushing James' buttons, D."
Dinah: "How did she manage to blind all of you this much?"
Diggle: "You're the one who's not seeing clearly, if you ask me, Dinah."
Dinah: "I didn't."
Oliver: "Hey, hey. You're better than this."
(Dinah leaves.)
Curtis: "I guess, we're leaving now."
Rene: "Yeah, we're leaving now. Just to be clear, whatever happened didn't change anything. Yeah, we're glad that we took down Cayden James, but we're still doing our own thing."
Oliver: "Please try to keep Dinah in line."
Rene: "No promises, Hoss." (Leaves)
Curtis: "In case you haven't noticed, we're not having a lot of luck with that right now." (Leaves)
Felicity: "Well, we saved the city. Again. And got Cayden James. Yeah. Why doesn't it feel like we won."

Edited March 17, 2020 by tv echo