S02.E01: The Man Who Would Be Vogue

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 1/21/2018 at 2:39 AM, marymon said:

From recap "When a woman in front of him covers her mouth in horror, he studies her response with that Starman curious head-cock again, then imitates it, but under his hand, he's smiling. This really is a fantastic, simultaneously chilling and slappable performance by Darren Criss." I can't be the only one who laughed at this it was so bad.

I found Darren Criss compelling and excellent in the role for all of the episode - except this part mentioned above.  I thought it was cringe-worthy.  

[panthergirl13]

It's hard to know if some of Andrew's little screwups are intentional or just bad writing. If his mother's family was from Palermo then they're from Sicily...not from the "south of Italy". I don't know any Sicilians that would describe it that way, and it's likely an Italian such as Versace would have corrected him as well.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, panthergirl13 said:

It's hard to know if some of Andrew's little screwups are intentional or just bad writing. If his mother's family was from Palermo then they're from Sicily...not from the "south of Italy". I don't know any Sicilians that would describe it that way, and it's likely an Italian such as Versace would have corrected him as well.

All signs that these conversations with Versace never happened, other than in Andrew's head.

[Bruinsfan]

Or signs that Ryan Murphy can't be bothered with details. Having watched five of his previous series, I can say with certainty that inconsistencies aren't necessarily a sign of something intentional within the narrative.

[truthaboutluv]

17 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Or signs that Ryan Murphy can't be bothered with details. Having watched five of his previous series, I can say with certainty that inconsistencies aren't necessarily a sign of something intentional within the narrative.

Obviously I can't say with certainty that the inconsistencies weren't just a case of bad writing. But considering on this season, we're dealing with a character who by all accounts was seemingly incapable of ever telling the truth, the idea that the inconsistencies were deliberate, is also not out of the realm of possibility.

Edited January 24, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Gobi]

I wonder if there's a way to tell what was real and what wasn't. Perhaps the meeting with Versace in the club was real (although, perhaps not exactly what happened) because there were other people there, while the "date" after the opera was not, because only the two of them were shown.

[vixenbynight]

15 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Obvious not. But considering on this season, we're dealing with a character who by all accounts was seemingly incapable of ever telling the truth, the idea that the inconsistencies were deliberate, is not out of the realm of possibility.

Also, if the meeting between those two did happen back in 1990, that Gianni probably realized that Andrew was lying about his upbringing and he didn't want to call him out on his lies.

[candle96]

18 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

In her younger days aka before all the plastic surgery/botox/fillers, Donatella had a pretty standard Italian accent when speaking English (with a slight sibilance with her S sounds), which was not difficult to understand (at least not to my ears). You can hear her speaking briefly at the 3:20 mark in this video:

 

Wow, what strikes me about this is how much they got Edgar Ramirez to look like Gianni.

[Anela]

On January 18, 2018 at 10:13 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Everyone and their pet monkey knows and has an opinion on O.J. and his murder trial but most people will probably not know as much about Versace.  I know I don’t.  I have no idea who he is really.  I didn’t know he was murdered.  I know nothing about the guy who murdered him.  While the O.J. case was looking at characters we already knew in a new way.  This is just.....new.

 

My guess it is already shaping up to be cops more interested in a celebrity’s sex life then solving his murder.  And an important family more interested in protecting  a reputation then getting justice.   Question what is justice?   What is love?   What is success?  What is failure?  Who ultimately decides?

I remembered that Versace was murdered, and I remembered cunanan's name, once it was mentioned, but didn't recall that he'd murdered five people. 

[marymon]

On 1/21/2018 at 6:25 PM, Florinaldo said:

I would agree with the recap. It is a good choice to portray AC as the chameleon he was, ready to mimic how people expected him to act or to say what they needed to hear to paraphrase a line in the episode. It may not have been totally original as others have pointed out, but it worked, whether it came from the script or was a contribution from the director or the cast. I think that the real kicker is when although he covers his mouth in a seemingly normal reaction of shock, you can see that he is smiling and looks very pleased with the media attention.

I understand what they were going for it just was not well executed imo.  

[Florinaldo]

8 hours ago, marymon said:

I understand what they were going for it just was not well executed imo.  

Different viewers, different reactions and opinions, which is quite normal. It's very probable that this won't be our sole point of disagreement regarding this series.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Florinaldo

[Chaos Theory]

7 hours ago, marymon said:

I understand what they were going for it just was not well executed imo.  

I thought that was the most chilling part of the episode.  

10 hours ago, Anela said:

I remembered that Versace was murdered, and I remembered cunanan's name, once it was mentioned, but didn't recall that he'd murdered five people. 

Of course some people will.   I am not saying no one will.  It just doesn’t have the same amount of publicity as the OJ trials.  That being said I think it is also the point of the story?  Why didn’t it have the publicity.  A public figure got murdered and The FBI already had the guy on their wanted list.  Why wasn’t this on every news channel fir months?  Was it because it was seen as a strictly gay crime and therefore no one really took it seriously including the FBI?  

Edited January 25, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

That being said I think it is also the point of the story?  Why didn’t it have the publicity.  A public figure got murdered and The FBI already had the guy on their wanted list.  Why wasn’t this on every news channel fir months?  Was it because it was seen as a strictly gay crime and therefore no one really took it seriously including the FBI?  

I think there are a number of reasons this story wasn't covered as incessantly as OJ's: Versace was a foreigner; he was a fashion designer; he was gay. All three of those things make him an outsider in America. He simply wasn't a part of the culture like OJ was.

[Gobi]

57 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think there are a number of reasons this story wasn't covered as incessantly as OJ's: Versace was a foreigner; he was a fashion designer; he was gay. All three of those things make him an outsider in America. He simply wasn't a part of the culture like OJ was.

Plus, it was all over in three months.

[Ailianna]

Plus Princess Diana's death.  Which overshadowed everything for a while.

[Anela]

22 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I thought that was the most chilling part of the episode.  

Of course some people will.   I am not saying no one will.  It just doesn’t have the same amount of publicity as the OJ trials.  That being said I think it is also the point of the story?  Why didn’t it have the publicity.  A public figure got murdered and The FBI already had the guy on their wanted list.  Why wasn’t this on every news channel fir months?  Was it because it was seen as a strictly gay crime and therefore no one really took it seriously including the FBI?  

I didn't think you were saying that. I was just stating what I knew and didn't know. 

[jumper sage]

I am surprised how much I like this show.  I liked the OJ one but had a hard time with Cuba Gooding Jr. playing OJ.  I am liking all the actors so far.

Love the whole Miami look.

[Blakeston]

The case got quite a bit of attention once Versace was murdered. Not OJ levels, but that wouldn't be expected, because a) Versace wasn't as famous as OJ, and b) there wasn't a big celebrity trial involved.

Before Versace was murdered, it wasn't seen as that big a deal outside of the gay community, and the regions in which the victims lived - because no one involved was a celebrity nationwide.

If the victims had been straight, the public probably would have freaked out more about their own safety. It was very easy for straight people to assume they were in no danger.

[Clanstarling]

1 minute ago, Blakeston said:

The case got quite a bit of attention once Versace was murdered. Not OJ levels, but that wouldn't be expected, because a) Versace wasn't as famous as OJ, and b) there wasn't a big celebrity trial involved.

Before Versace was murdered, it wasn't seen as that big a deal outside of the gay community, and the regions in which the victims lived - because no one involved was a celebrity nationwide.

If the victims had been straight, the public probably would have freaked out more about their own safety. It was very easy for straight people to assume they were in no danger.

It might have gotten a little more play if Versace had been the presumed murderer rather than the victim. If someone other than OJ, a beloved American icon, had been the chief suspect in Nicole's murder, it wouldn't have gotten as much attention (no celebrity trial, as you pointed out). 

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 hour ago, jumper sage said:

I am surprised how much I like this show.  I liked the OJ one but had a hard time with Cuba Gooding Jr. playing OJ.  I am liking all the actors so far.

Love the whole Miami look.

I totally agree with this. Season one was very good, but the casting of Cuba as OJ really took me out.  So that is one reason that I don't find season two vastly inferior.

[Clanstarling]

3 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I totally agree with this. Season one was very good, but the casting of Cuba as OJ really took me out.  So that is one reason that I don't find season two vastly inferior.

Agreed. As much as I love Cuba Gooding, I just couldn't ever see him as OJ. I had to push the real OJ out of my mind before I could really get into the show.

[teapot]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:55 PM, chabelisaywow said:

Same. Lady Gaga too.

Every time I hear Versace - it reminds me of Showgirls.  "I bought it at Ver-sase."

Even if I could afford to buy - way too over done bordering on tacky for my taste.

same w/Ver-sase!

And I agree about the clothes....I was walking around in the store on fifth ave in nyc (as the sales staff scoffed at the peasant in Zara) asking my mister, "WHO WEARS THIS??"

seriously....Lady Elaine Fairchild????

[CofCinci]

Are there any conspiracy theories that speculate that Cunanan actually didn’t murder Versace?  That it was actually a contacted-kill, as the authorities first speculated.   Here’s Versace, HIV+ and his brand is about to go public — against the wishes of the family...  Spree killer Andrew Cunanan just happens to be in town...

Okay, taking the tin foil hat off. 

The cinematography is simply stunning. 

I never really watched Glee, short of a few clips here or there. Darren Chris is scaring the hell out of me. He plays sociopath a little too well. 

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Are there any conspiracy theories that speculate that Cunanan actually didn’t murder Versace?  That it was actually a contacted-kill, as the authorities first speculated.   Here’s Versace, HIV+ and his brand is about to go public — against the wishes of the family...  Spree killer Andrew Cunanan just happens to be in town...

Okay, taking the tin foil hat off. 

The cinematography is simply stunning. 

I never really watched Glee, short of a few clips here or there. Darren Chris is scaring the hell out of me. He plays sociopath a little too well. 

His family claims that he was set up by the Mafia. I don't know any of the details.

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

 "WHO WEARS THIS??"

seriously....Lady Elaine Fairchild????

lol more like Wayland Flowers and Madame 

[ktwo]

Coming in late as I finally binged the first four episodes today. First impression - I was gobsmacked by the mansion set. Then someone upthread mentioned that the mansion is now a hotel - is it possible that the production just up and rented the actual mansion and filmed it there? Does anyone know?

But, I’m in for the whole thing, and was after the first episode. I remember some of this case because I was in commercial real estate in DC and my company had just bought a company in Chicago so I was spending half my weeks there - the relevance of that will become clear shortly. So it was something I was following before Cunanan got to Versace. But I don’t have a good recollection of what else happened, and I’m trying to keep myself “unspoiled” by not looking it up.

[Thumper]

Just starting to watch this series.  Thanks for explaining the Italian pronunciation -- I will now pronounce Giada's name correctly!  I know Spanish, so tend to pronounce Italian words the same way.

Living in Minnesota, I am somewhat familiar with this case as the first murders occurred up here.  Good first episode.