S11.E03: Plus One

[FormerMod-a1]

Quote

A spate of deaths, in which the victims were plagued by their own doppelgangers, lead Mulder and Scully to a pair of twins playing a dangerous game.

[janeta]

So i take it the same person played both Chuckie and Judy?

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, janeta said:

So i take it the same person played both Chuckie and Judy?

Really? I didn't catch that.

I liked this episode. I've decided that I just have to ignore continuity these episodes are jumping around in time.

I freaked out every time Scully woke up to Mulder, thinking it was Evil Mulder. 

I loved the Nurses, I'd take those pills too Evil Judy was creepy.

I'm not sure I fully understood this episode.  Chicky and Judy were telepathic twins, their Hang Man game were targets each had. I get that. I'm missing the whole dark mirror aspect.

[AimingforYoko]

5 minutes ago, janeta said:

So i take it the same person played both Chuckie and Judy?

Karin Konoval, who famously played Mrs. Peacock in Home.

So the sexiness of our heroes saved them, nice.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, janeta said:

So i take it the same person played both Chuckie and Judy?

That's a really good catch. I ran off to check IMDb after reading to see if you were right and you were.

Now at least all that dark mirror stuff makes sense.

[callie lee 29]

That was amazing and hysterical and I did not pick up it was the same actor! They were fantastic. And yeah, Evil Judy was creepy as heel and I'd probably take the bread pills too. 

I think other than Brenda and Jax on General Hospital, this is the only characters I've ever "shipped" and I think my little Mulder/Scully heart went crazy. 

Next week looks hysterical.

[lazylump]

Hubba Hubba!  I was terrified at the dopplegangers staring.  Tapped into my biggest fear of waking up to find someone staring at me.  But the end, the ending made my sixteen year old fan girl self squeal.  I felt like I was back in my parents house watching it on sunday night.  I didn't watch episode 1 and barely understood episode 2 so I was pleasantly surprised with this one.

Edited January 18, 2018 by lazylump

[cambridgeguy]

Does Mulder not know how to wake someone up like a normal person?  He shouldn't be living up to the Spooky nickname although it looks like he still got laid so I guess Scully doesn't mind the creepiness.

[SparklesBitch]

5 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Karin Konoval, who famously played Mrs. Peacock in Home.

Oh wow, good catch! 

I really liked this one. Judy was so freaking creepy, it’s no wonder the nurses took those pills. They cracked me up with their refusal to go in her room. 

And this episode made me feel like my teenage shipper self all over again. I can’t help it, after all these years, Mulder and Scully still make my heart flutter. =) 

On a goofy note, Mulder’s line “put a dimmer on that afterglow, Scully” made me literally laugh out loud.  

[domina89]

And just when I thought I had gotten over my fear of looking in the rear view mirror since "Elegy"...

Chris really redeemed himself with this one.  So classic- hallways, hotels, innocent children's games turning into something terrible, deep conversations... and the MUSIC!!!!  'Nuff said.

That LOOK Mulder gave Scully at the end.  Yowza...

[lazylump]

9 minutes ago, domina89 said:

That LOOK Mulder gave Scully at the end.  Yowza...

Yeah,,.  there is going to be a ton of x rated fan fiction written after that scene!

[ganesh]

30 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Really? I didn't catch that.

Whoa! Wow. 

30 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Karin Konoval, who famously played Mrs. Peacock in Home.

WHOA WOW

I totally missed that. One of the benefits of being unspoiled! 

I felt bad Scully thought she was old, but Mulder was right about the boot in her scoot. 

[MissL]

Ok yeah I liked that they had sex but I don't understand their relationship at all.  They were obviously fully together in the second movie, broke up for reasons I still don't understand and...just now restarted their sexual relationship? But seemed in every way together in the last episode?  And Scully is worried he'll find someone else and have kids? Don't buy it. The pretzels CC had to twist to keep from showing them kissing on screen....whatever. He probably thinks he's clever. 

 

As for the case..creepy yes and we've had many a case where Mulder and Scully so nothing to impact the case and the supernatural stuff happens around them and works itself out but usually I understand why Mulder has a theory. What made him decide to look in Judy's room specifically? He didn't see the paper with the name until he was already in there.  Was it just the hangman part? Just because some of the victims hung themselves? They jumped off buildings too.

And actually Mulder being hot AND annoying saved them. Judy wanted to kill Scully because she wanted Mulder and her brother wanted to kill Mulder because he bugged him. Cross purposes. :)

All that being said I did enjoy the episode. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by MissL

[ganesh]

Whoa did they do it?!

[callie lee 29]

10 minutes ago, MissL said:

Ok yeah I liked that they had sex but I don't understand their relationship at all.  They were obviously fully together in the second movie, broke up for reasons I still don't understand and...just now restarted their sexual relationship? But seemed in every way together in the last episode?  And Scully is worried he'll find someone else and have kids? Don't buy it. The pretzels CC had to twist to keep from showing them kissing on screen....whatever. He probably thinks he's clever. 

 

As for the case..creepy yes and we've had many a case where Mulder and Scully so nothing to impact the case and the supernatural stuff happens around them and works itself out but usually I understand why Mulder has a theory. What made him decide to look in Judy's room specifically? He didn't see the paper with the name until he was already in there.  Was it just the hangman part? Just because some of the victims hung themselves? They jumped off buildings too.

 

Spooky knows spooky??!! Lol, seriously know clue as to what pinged Mulder about Judy, I just hand wave as the guy's got a radar about these things.

[ganesh]

Ha I liked the sword sound as they cut to credits. Yowza!

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I didn't love this one, though I did think it flowed better than the premiere.  Carter loves his big ideas, and his broad comedy, he really loves weird twins whose weird twin powers can hurt and kill people.  I don't mind the big ideas but sometimes the comedy is a little too broad for my tastes, and I just don't get the obsession with weird twins.

That being said, I did absolutely love all of the Mulder/Scully interaction here, and the fact that they've had this relationship for more than two decades felt especially true-to-life.  And for all that they spent years dancing around it, it is kind of fun just to have them admit that, yes, they've had sex, they still have sex, and not have to be too especially coy about it. 

[Mama No Life]

Gillian Anderson posted on Twitter the pic of the two of them clinking beer bottles at the ends of the genie episode, and added ATTHS.  Twice.  ;)

 

So someone else is a shipper too.  :)

 

I see them as soul mates who are so different it doesn't work day to day but in the end they always come back to each other.  It was never said but implied that Mulder had gone round the bend at the beginning of the last mini-season and that's why Scully had bailed, to save her own sanity.  I can buy that.  

[AmeliaBedelia]

There was an actual case this week! I liked the twin concept although I was distracted by the same actress playing both characters. Judy was sweet, but Chuckie was irritating and I did not care for him at all.

The "Hold me" and kid dialogue was super awkward. I loved the afterglow part, but I hate that Scully thinks Mulder could find someone else at this point in their lives. She's his one in five (plus) billion. Stop trying to convince me otherwise show!

The eps in the past two seasons that have felt the most successful to me are the ones that feature cases (done with mythology) and the ones that showcase Mulder and Scully enjoying each other's company. That's all I need.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

26 minutes ago, AmeliaBedelia said:

The "Hold me" and kid dialogue was super awkward. I loved the afterglow part, but I hate that Scully thinks Mulder could find someone else at this point in their lives. She's his one in five (plus) billion. Stop trying to convince me otherwise show!

 

I didn't find that dialogue awkward. For one thing, it reflects some of the fears that long-term couples experience.  But for another - I also think that to some extent, that dialogue was as much a metaphor for the show, and it's role in the television ecosystem, as it was about Mulder and Scully.  It felt a little bit like Carter's answer to some of the criticism after S10, which said he should leave the show, and that other shows are doing what The X-Files did, only better.  Scully asking if she's too old IMO is really Carter asking if he's too old or The X-Files is too old to keep up with tv today. 

At the end of the day, though, we all always keep coming back to Mulder and Scully, just like they keep coming back together.  So I liked it for its metaphorical qualities. 

[domina89]

7 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I didn't find that dialogue awkward. For one thing, it reflects some of the fears that long-term couples experience.  But for another - I also think that to some extent, that dialogue was as much a metaphor for the show, and it's role in the television ecosystem, as it was about Mulder and Scully.  It felt a little bit like Carter's answer to some of the criticism after S10, which said he should leave the show, and that other shows are doing what The X-Files did, only better.  Scully asking if she's too old IMO is really Carter asking if he's too old or The X-Files is too old to keep up with tv today. 

I will need to watch this one a few times to catch everything, but I really love what I think CC was trying to say about ghosts... Scully doesn't believe in them but the ghost of her younger self is haunting her in this episode., causing her to have doubts about herself.  More broadly, the ghosts of the past Mulder and Scully are haunting this incarnation of them now 20+ years later.  I think CC is commenting on how he is trying to honor both versions of M & S with this episode- the new and the old.  I think he succeeded.

[AmeliaBedelia]

35 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I didn't find that dialogue awkward. For one thing, it reflects some of the fears that long-term couples experience.  But for another - I also think that to some extent, that dialogue was as much a metaphor for the show, and it's role in the television ecosystem, as it was about Mulder and Scully.  It felt a little bit like Carter's answer to some of the criticism after S10, which said he should leave the show, and that other shows are doing what The X-Files did, only better.  Scully asking if she's too old IMO is really Carter asking if he's too old or The X-Files is too old to keep up with tv today. 

At the end of the day, though, we all always keep coming back to Mulder and Scully, just like they keep coming back together.  So I liked it for its metaphorical qualities. 

The comment Judy made to Scully was out of left field to me, and therefore Scully's "fears" felt shoehorned into the episode. After CSM's bombshell in ep 1, I really don't want Scully/Mulder to talk about kids ever again. They are not a typical couple with typical issues and I feel like "Are we/Aren't we together" dialogue is reductive of their bond. We should be so far past that by now, but I'm sure CC disagrees.

[AntiBeeSpray]

I liked the lighting and the pacing in this ep... and I liked the creepy bad guys. That's about it.

[Bastet]

Ever since I read a pre-season description of this episode about doppelgangers and twins, and that it was written by CC, I feared similarity to the piece of shit that was Fight Club, but this was much better.

It’s also yet another episode that nods to previous episodes, but you have to stretch for a lot of them, so I still don’t know what to think about the “it’s all an alternate universe” theory versus the idea they’re just paying homage to the past in the revival. 

- “Mrs. Peacock” (meaning, the actor who played her in Home) plays Chucky and Judy.  And her telling Scully she's old and past her child-bearing years is like her “you’re not a mother” and “I can tell” stuff from Home

- The music during Mulder’s interview with Chucky is reminiscent of Humbug

- Dog years in relation to Scully’s age brings to mind the happy birthday sno-ball conversation in Tempus Fugit

- “Somebody has to pay the price” and “little sister” adds up to something quite similar to “Somebody has to take the blame, little sister, and it’s not going to be me” from Aubrey

- The protective secret pills from a nurse in an institution is like In Excelsis Deo

- One's fear becoming an actual danger is like X-Cops

- Scully acknowledging the power of and simultaneously shooting down the fallacy of ghost stories is like How the Ghosts Stole Christmas

- Scully seeing another version of herself in a mirror is like Elegy;  Mulder and another Mulder in a mirror is like Dreamland

- Scully sleeping in full make-up and bra being reminiscent of every other episode of Scully in bed; nah, that’s just TV

So, again, it's all cute little nods, unintentional similarities, and/or intentional indications.

At any rate, Mulder and Scully’s relationship in this season continues to build on IWTB and season 10 as being so much more honest than the coy bullshit of the original series, but then we still have CC presenting a couple who've been getting it on for eons getting it on in this one particular moment as a big deal and has them talk as if procreating with someone else is a possibility/threat.

“Correct me if I’m wrong, Scully – and I know that you will” makes up for that a bit, as otherwise the dynamic was good.  Except, seriously with the "what if you meet someone younger and have kids?" shit?  Is this a soap opera, with Bad Judy getting in her head with that stuff?  They're so far beyond that, given their history.

Random notes:

Judy is not remotely part of their case when Mulder asks for her medical status; how are privacy laws set aside to give it to him?

Is this rock band opening the show connected to the random music television M&S were sleeping to, on mute, in the last episode?  Is it DD's music both times?

Edited January 18, 2018 by Bastet

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 hours ago, MissL said:

Ok yeah I liked that they had sex but I don't understand their relationship at all.  They were obviously fully together in the second movie, broke up for reasons I still don't understand and...just now restarted their sexual relationship? But seemed in every way together in the last episode?  And Scully is worried he'll find someone else and have kids? Don't buy it. The pretzels CC had to twist to keep from showing them kissing on screen....whatever. He probably thinks he's clever. 

 

As for the case..creepy yes and we've had many a case where Mulder and Scully so nothing to impact the case and the supernatural stuff happens around them and works itself out but usually I understand why Mulder has a theory. What made him decide to look in Judy's room specifically? He didn't see the paper with the name until he was already in there.  Was it just the hangman part? Just because some of the victims hung themselves? They jumped off buildings too.

And actually Mulder being hot AND annoying saved them. Judy wanted to kill Scully because she wanted Mulder and her brother wanted to kill Mulder because he bugged him. Cross purposes. :)

All that being said I did enjoy the episode. 

Exactly! It's why I'm sticking with 'This' as canon. CC makes no damn sense. He's not clever, he's just annoying. It's why I didn't like the scenes we got. We had them before and they were better (especially the one in IWTB). These ones left me shrugging my shoulders.

Edited January 18, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[catrox14]

Chicka bow bow. That's my takeaway.

And I need my damn Supernatural/XFiles Xover already

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

Well, that was kind of cute, though the pacing seemed off for much of the ep. M&S both seemed a bit sleepy and unexcited to me. Still visually dark, though. I didn't recognize the sword guy being stalked as the man from the prison earlier because I'd never gotten a good look at him in the prison scenes. Though I did recognize the actress as both twins due to the voice. 

What's with the coyness about M&S sleeping together. Weren't they living together in the previous ep, or am I confused? And Gilly's voice is oddly hoarse again. 

"Dookie"? Seriously? Sigh. 

I'd give the ep a C+, though I imagine you shippers were squeeing madly. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Ghost of TWOP Past

[AntiBeeSpray]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of TWOP Past said:

Well, that was kind of cute, though the pacing seemed off for much of the ep. M&S both seemed a bit sleepy and unexcited to me. Still visually dark, though. I didn't recognize the sword guy being stalked as the man from the prison earlier because I'd never gotten a good look at him in the prison scenes. Though I did recognize the actress as both twins due to the voice. 

What's with the coyness about M&S sleeping together. Weren't they living together in the previous ep, or am I confused? And Gilly's voice is oddly hoarse again. 

"Dookie"? Seriously? Sigh. 

I'd give the ep a C+, though I imagine you shippers were squeeing madly. 

It's CC's idea of a bad joke. No you're not. Glen got it, CC missed it.

I'm one shipper who is NOT squeeing. Really. Didn't really like the moments that much. :\ Saw better ones. Thought that DD and GA did alright in it though. But I liked IWTB's bed scene and the moments in the Truth far better.

Congrats CC, you managed to out do yourself in terms of not doing much of anything at all. Very, very disappointed with it.

Edited January 18, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[rideashire]

45 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

It's CC's idea of a bad joke. No you're not. Glen got it, CC missed it.

I'm one shipper who is NOT squeeing. Really. Didn't really like the moments that much. :\ Saw better ones. Thought that DD and GA did alright in it though. But I liked IWTB's bed scene and the moments in the Truth far better.

Congrats CC, you managed to out do yourself in terms of not doing much of anything at all. Very, very disappointed with it.

I am with you. I'm not squeeing either.

As someone who fell for these two on the show's first run all those years ago this all feels like a slap in the face now. I don't want to know that 20 something years later they're on again/off again, unsure about their relationship, still can't define it, still choose separate motel rooms if given the chance, worried about the other finding someone else. Wtf.

No. Just no. That whole bed scene was ridiculous and I hear the folks that say it's realistic for a couple that's been together for a while to have doubts but here's the thing, the show is saying they aren't together. Scully flat out said "who would I have this kid with??!" Like she wasn't laying in Mulder's arms at the time and he stopped existing just then. Why would she say such a thing? The show is saying they're fuck buddies now who plan to wheel each other around the nursing home when they're old and that's basically it, and I'm not ok with that in the slightest. Not when this same show tried so hard, for so long to tell me they're two in five billion.

[AntiBeeSpray]

28 minutes ago, rideashire said:

I am with you. I'm not squeeing either.

As someone who fell for these two on the show's first run all those years ago this all feels like a slap in the face now. I don't want to know that 20 something years later they're on again/off again, unsure about their relationship, still can't define it, still choose separate motel rooms if given the chance, worried about the other finding someone else. Wtf.

No. Just no. That whole bed scene was ridiculous and I hear the folks that say it's realistic for a couple that's been together for a while to have doubts but here's the thing, the show is saying they aren't together. Scully flat out said "who would I have this kid with??!" Like she wasn't laying in Mulder's arms at the time and he stopped existing just then. Why would she say such a thing? The show is saying they're fuck buddies now who plan to wheel each other around the nursing home when they're old and that's basically it, and I'm not ok with that in the slightest. Not when this same show tried so hard, for so long to tell me they're two in five billion.

Exactly. Guess it's just what CC wants or thinks that fans want. Thing is a lot of us have grown up and grown past that.

And that line made no damn sense. Really CC? Screw you. Yep and frankly I wanted to punch a pillow SO hard after that. It made me angry. Not happy or excited. Word. He managed to shoot the show in the foot for good as far as I'm concerned there. Way to destroy a relationship that meant something.

[Miles]

Scully the sceptic stoped working many seasons ago, but it especially doesn't work when she doesn't believe in telepathic communication between siblings, when just two episodes ago she got a movie length apocalyptic vision of the future from her son.

[baileythedog]

5 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I didn't love this one, though I did think it flowed better than the premiere.  Carter loves his big ideas, and his broad comedy, he really loves weird twins whose weird twin powers can hurt and kill people.  I don't mind the big ideas but sometimes the comedy is a little too broad for my tastes, and I just don't get the obsession with weird twins.

Maybe CC is actually a twin? 

5 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

That being said, I did absolutely love all of the Mulder/Scully interaction here, and the fact that they've had this relationship for more than two decades felt especially true-to-life.  And for all that they spent years dancing around it, it is kind of fun just to have them admit that, yes, they've had sex, they still have sex, and not have to be too especially coy about it. 

I liked this story...a lot. It made me wonder if I would have enjoyed "Fight Club" minus the Kathy Griffin inclusion.  It had the creepiness factor of "Theef" which I always thought was an under-appreciated episode from the 7th season. I loved how Scully's more rational side saved her life, i.e. ignoring her doppleganger and dismissing it a manifestation. Mulder's own life was saved by his absolute belief in the twin's hangman game and the fact that their respective crushes on the agents caused them to drop the game before it was finished and pencil in their own names instead. I found I didn't necessarily care that there wasn't much of an explanation given for why the twins could do what they could. 

I read M&S's conversations a little differently than others here. We don't really know how long they were estranged or even to what extent that estrangement was. Were they just romantically estranged or did they have a falling out as friends, too? Based on the beginning of MS1, it seems they haven't seen each other in some time. Their reconciliation has been a real slow build up since then. I took their conversation in bed not so much as a fear of the future (i.e. that Mulder would suddenly meet someone else and start a family) but more of a backing in to unsaid words that likely built up over the years and helped lead to their estrangement to begin with. I thought their conversation was basically saying, "if, in the future, it's just us--are we okay with that?" 

Along those same lines, I did love that Mulder is worried that the president is trying to take down the FBI and that they'll be out of jobs. 

I really thought this episode had it all - compelling and creepy story buttressed by emotional truths from M&S. Mrs. Peacock totally nailed her four characters--and incidentally, I never realized how young should would have been 22 years ago playing Mrs. Peacock--and GA/DD  had their characters down as easy as breathing. Good stuff. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Yeah, it's interesting to me that people are seeing the conversation as proof they still aren't together because to me, it was essentially a reaffirmation that they know they are always going to end up together. Sure, it's weird with the timeline after last week's episode, but that's par for the course. 

It's funny because as much as I think that Carter is indifferent to the ship, as a whole, I recognize that he has given the show some of its most intimate moments, back to the bug bites scene in the pilot.  But you also have the "I love you" scene in Triangle, the bed spooning scene in Requiem, the ending of Existence, the bed scenes in I Want to Believe, and now this. Which is why I can't hate him, even when he does stuff like MSIII.

[Mama No Life]

2 hours ago, baileythedog said:

I took their conversation in bed not so much as a fear of the future (i.e. that Mulder would suddenly meet someone else and start a family) but more of a backing in to unsaid words that likely built up over the years and helped lead to their estrangement to begin with. I thought their conversation was basically saying, "if, in the future, it's just us--are we okay with that?" 

Absolutely my take on it as well.  Both reassuring each other that no matter the ebbs and flows, they are it for each other.

[luna1122]

M & S were my first real ship, the longest lasting, the most intense. So I loved some of this episode, but for me, last week's was more real and romantic and resonant. So much of this just didn't jibe with that one: last week, they sparred and innudendo'd sexily and appeared to be at least semi-cohabiting again....this week, Scully makes a fuss about separate hotel rooms and made disapproving faces at Mulder's innuendoes...up til she climbed into his bed. I think I would have loved THIS episode if someone besides CC had written it, with more finesse and more smarts and some damned consistency.

Also, I have wanted a guy to put his arms around me a bunch of times in my life, and pretty much always got  that to happen, but never once have I uttered the words 'would you hold me?' in any variation. And I do not believe Dana Fucking Scully would have either. She fucking knows Mulder will hold her, always, any time, she's not ever going to be reduced to that simpery, clichéd bit of dialogue. And the convo in bed is one they would have already had, over the years...they lived together for a decade or more, they broke up, they've reconnected...or not, according to CC. I can handwave that some--even the most long term couples can feel awkward with certain conversations--but it felt needless. We all know they're going to be there for each other. They ARE indeed each other's one in five freaking billion.

And...the coyness. okay, they had sex, they've had sex, they'll continue to have sex, with or without handcuffs, but we can't even SEE a kiss between them here?

Also, there's a lot of squeezing on FB and elsewhere, and that's cool, I squeeed too, despite my criticisms, but I see a lot of 'they finally did it!!' kind of stuff, and for Christ sakes, we KNOW they've been 'doing it' for years, why the shock and awe?

Anyway. The episode itself was fun and creepy, and tho Mrs. Peacock played all her parts with extra huge helpings of ham and cheese, it was still fun to see her. "I just like the name Arkie!' made me laugh. I also agree that Scully being such a skeptic over things she's already seen over and over, and especially her not believing that evil exists, when, if anyone should know that there is evil in the world, it's M&S...that just defies comprehension. And yeah,  what is up with Gillian's voice? did she damager her vocal chords at some point? It varies between sounding sultry and just sounding...old....but it's distracting. She doesn't sound like Dana Scully anymore.

I did enjoy it, mostly, and the chemistry between the two of them is still so palpable...more worn and lived in and older, a little weary and sad...but so strong and deep. and this look at the end...I was already sitting down, but my knees caved in anyway:

 

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by luna1122

[Italian Ice]

My thoughts:

This was probably shot before "This," hence the continuity issues. For S10, the episode order was shifted around as well, so it wouldn't surprise me if they did that for S11, and "This" was originally supposed to be after "Plus One," which makes infinitely more sense as part of the timeline.

Second. The whole "St. Rachel Motel" thing? Not a coincidence if you look at the Biblical Rachel who struggled with infertility, and then had 2 sons, one of which became Joseph (of the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat), and the other which killed her in childbirth.  Scully totally got pregnant this episode, and we'll find out in the Season/Series Finale, which is probably why she leaves the FBI. That's my guess anyways.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Italian Ice

[domina89]

So I realize some of you will roll your eyes at this, but I feel the need to point out that the entire premise of the episode- twins, dopplegangers, doubles- even the doubled tagline "The Truth Is Out There" is yet another hint that this could be a parallel universe.  Every episode so far has had strong hints and I imagine that is going to continue.  Just sayin'....

[eleanorofaquitaine]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

Ever since I read a pre-season description of this episode about doppelgangers and twins, and that it was written by CC, I feared similarity to the piece of shit that was Fight Club, but this was much better.

It’s also yet another episode that nods to previous episodes, but you have to stretch for a lot of them, so I still don’t know what to think about the “it’s all an alternate universe” theory versus the idea they’re just paying homage to the past in the revival. 

- “Mrs. Peacock” (meaning, the actor who played her in Home) plays Chucky and Judy.  And her telling Scully she's old and past her child-bearing years is like her “you’re not a mother” and “I can tell” stuff from Home

- The music during Mulder’s interview with Chucky is reminiscent of Humbug

- Dog years in relation to Scully’s age brings to mind the happy birthday sno-ball conversation in Tempus Fugit

- “Somebody has to pay the price” and “little sister” adds up to something quite similar to “Somebody has to take the blame, little sister, and it’s not going to be me” from Aubrey

- The protective secret pills from a nurse in an institution is like In Excelsis Deo

- One's fear becoming an actual danger is like X-Cops

- Scully acknowledging the power of and simultaneously shooting down the fallacy of ghost stories is like How the Ghosts Stole Christmas

- Scully seeing another version of herself in a mirror is like Elegy;  Mulder and another Mulder in a mirror is like Dreamland

- Scully sleeping in full make-up and bra being reminiscent of every other episode of Scully in bed; nah, that’s just TV

So, again, it's all cute little nods, unintentional similarities, and/or intentional indications.

At any rate, Mulder and Scully’s relationship in this season continues to build on IWTB and season 10 as being so much more honest than the coy bullshit of the original series, but then we still have CC presenting a couple who've been getting it on for eons getting it on in this one particular moment as a big deal and has them talk as if procreating with someone else is a possibility/threat.

“Correct me if I’m wrong, Scully – and I know that you will” makes up for that a bit, as otherwise the dynamic was good.  Except, seriously with the "what if you meet someone younger and have kids?" shit?  Is this a soap opera, with Bad Judy getting in her head with that stuff?  They're so far beyond that, given their history.

Random notes:

Judy is not remotely part of their case when Mulder asks for her medical status; how are privacy laws set aside to give it to him?

Is this rock band opening the show connected to the random music television M&S were sleeping to, on mute, in the last episode?  Is it DD's music both times?

On this note, I was thinking this morning that Mulder getting out of bed and looking in the mirror, with Scully naked in the bed, is basically the inverse of "all things." Which would support Italian Ice's theory re pregnancy. 

[AngelKitty]

4 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

So much of this just didn't jibe with that one: last week, they sparred and innudendo'd sexily and appeared to be at least semi-cohabiting again....this week, Scully makes a fuss about separate hotel rooms and made disapproving faces at Mulder's innuendoes...up til she climbed into his bed.

Yes, the hotel room fuss took me by surprise, plus it was just so contrived.

5 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Also, I have wanted a guy to put his arms around me a bunch of times in my life, and pretty much always got  that to happen, but never once have I uttered the words 'would you hold me?' in any variation.

Really, people in real life do not say that.

And regarding Chucky, I have to say I knew that was a woman the moment I saw the character in the background. It's hard to disguise boobs.

I also was wondering how Mulder knew to talk to that particular patient? That was kind of contrived too.

But all in all, an enjoyable episode.

Oh, I meant to post last week that Mulder looks so much better than in the first episode where he had that graying stubble.

[Wayward Son]

I really enjoyed this one and would consider it the best of the season so far. Although it did have flaws. 

 

The Good 

- The Pacing: I thought the episode had a great pace and it managed to keep my attention throughout as a result. Both the action and the more emotional moments were given their due. 

- The Case of the Week: I really enjoyed the case of the week! I found the idea of being killed by a manifestation of your own paranoia absolutely fascinating. I also appreciated the ambiguity surrounding Scully's survival. Did she survive because of the bread pills? Or was it the fact she refused to give in to the fear that would have came to many naturally? In addition to this, Karin Konoval did an amazing job of making both character fascinating people in particular Judy. Am I the only one who felt saddened by their deaths since there was a part of them that didn't want any of this? :( 

- The Nurses: I found myself laughing constantly during their scenes with Scully. I wouldn't have wanted to go into that room either..

 

The Bad

- The presentation of Mulder and Scully's relationship. As @rideashire and others have highlighted, their relationship should be well past the will they/won't they presented by Carter in this episode and only serves to undermine the entire bond. Glenn Morgan definitely had a better handle on the Mulder and Scully of now last week. 

[MissL]

43 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

Yes, the hotel room fuss took me by surprise, plus it was just so contrived.

Really, people in real life do not say that.

 

Oh, I meant to post last week that Mulder looks so much better than in the first episode where he had that graying stubble.

Yes and yes. She should have just crawled into bed with him. It's not like he wouldn't have gotten the point and they have spooned before.

And yes he looked hot right? The hotness is finally back. He looked good here and in This. I guess MSIII did nobody any favors in multiple ways.

Oh and also when Scully was being all weird about the hotel room and making Mulder sleep on the pullout I did yell "F$&k off Chris and get over yourself." That man makes my blood boil.  

And I may be a shipper who squees (I still remember my friend Julia literally climbing on my back and screaming during the dance in PMP) but I still expect a good story and some character consistency . I didn't squee in this..well I melted a bit with that last come hither look from Mulder ..because I found it all too awkward for where they should be now.  A bit offended when someone implies shipper moments is all it takes to make me happy. I'm probably one of the shows biggest critics. I was a member of one of one of those early email fan threads that dissected the xfiles long before we had forums so it's a habit now. It drives my friends batty. 

Edited January 18, 2018 by MissL
Had more thoughts

[Robert Lynch]

I swear, I always confuse Karin Konoval with the late Helen Hanft. They always have that crazed woman from Hell acting bit I could never separate from. 

[Taryn74]

There were some problems, but overall - great episode!  Creepy as heck, and plausible if you believe twins can have a truly supernatural connection; the way Mulder and Scully each handled seeing their dopplegangers was spot on (Mulder fought his off, Scully rationalized hers away); there was plenty of flirting and innuendos which always makes me happy; and to top it off we've got Scully obviously undressed waking up with Mulder, and then going back at the end for seconds.  And he knew she would, he was standing there waiting for her to open the door.  Yes indeed.

But then we've got Scully telling Mulder she doesn't have anyone to have another kid with, while she's spooning with him?  Good grief.

 

2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

this week, Scully makes a fuss about separate hotel rooms

Well, they were on a case.  No matter where they are at with regards to their relationship, two agents sharing a room while on a case is not professional.  I didn't have a problem with that.

 

4 hours ago, baileythedog said:

It had the creepiness factor of "Theef" which I always thought was an under-appreciated episode from the 7th season.

Yes!  I love Theef and always felt it was under-appreciated as well.

 

So, Chuckie and Judy killed their parents, huh?  I wonder if that was when they realized their powers?  Why was Judy in a mental hospital but Chuckie wasn't?  Both of his personas seemed more off his rocker than Little Judy.  (Demon Judy on the other hand....)

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

The Bad

- The presentation of Mulder and Scully's relationship. As @rideashire and others have highlighted, their relationship should be well past the will they/won't they presented by Carter in this episode and only serves to undermine the entire bond. Glenn Morgan definitely had a better handle on the Mulder and Scully of now last week. 

I guess I didn't see anything about last night's episode that was "will they/won't they."  They have.  We all know it. Chris Carter knows it. David Duchovney and Gillian Anderson know it.  That question was put to bed a long time ago.

Let's just say that their situation is not dissimilar to my own, in that I am in a long-term relationship with someone to whom I have never married but remain committed.  We met while working together, and we were deeply committed to a cause.  And our relationship has had its ups and downs - never quite a break up but times where we felt distance from each other, times where we feel insecure about each other and our long-term prospects. Mulder and Scully's conversation felt VERY real life to me, including the asking her to hold him after a period of estrangement or distance.  

I had other problems with the ep - like I said above, I thought the comedy was too broad.  But with the light of day, I am appreciating the theme of doubles, the feeling like you are living situations over and over, only with slight variations, and yet still coming back to the person who makes you feel safe, more than I did last night. 

[Sandman]

13 hours ago, MissL said:

Ok yeah I liked that they had sex but I don't understand their relationship at all.  They were obviously fully together in the second movie, broke up for reasons I still don't understand and...just now restarted their sexual relationship? But seemed in every way together in the last episode?  And Scully is worried he'll find someone else and have kids? Don't buy it. The pretzels CC had to twist to keep from showing them kissing on screen....whatever. He probably thinks he's clever.

This is my thought exactly. CC still has them acting out of character to support his NoRomo habit. They were obviously together as of last week's episode. Arrgh. And of course, have the woman worrying about the cost of getting older! 

Scully's line about even if she could have children, there's no one in her life she could have them with was just ridiculous. (I think this is what the Surfer Dude was referring to when he said that the "revelation" in "My Struggle III" was meaningful because the audience knows more about it than the characters do at present.)

[AntiBeeSpray]

4 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Yeah, it's interesting to me that people are seeing the conversation as proof they still aren't together because to me, it was essentially a reaffirmation that they know they are always going to end up together. Sure, it's weird with the timeline after last week's episode, but that's par for the course. 

It's funny because as much as I think that Carter is indifferent to the ship, as a whole, I recognize that he has given the show some of its most intimate moments, back to the bug bites scene in the pilot.  But you also have the "I love you" scene in Triangle, the bed spooning scene in Requiem, the ending of Existence, the bed scenes in I Want to Believe, and now this. Which is why I can't hate him, even when he does stuff like MSIII.

Maybe. But I honestly got nothing out of it. *shrug*

Yep. I ignore the 'I love you' scene in Triangle since I view it as more CC games. But that said, he did do the rest of them. Honestly though, this kind of wrecked who M and S were to me before. Reducing it to FWB's. 

 

14 hours ago, MissL said:

Ok yeah I liked that they had sex but I don't understand their relationship at all.  They were obviously fully together in the second movie, broke up for reasons I still don't understand and...just now restarted their sexual relationship? But seemed in every way together in the last episode?  And Scully is worried he'll find someone else and have kids? Don't buy it. The pretzels CC had to twist to keep from showing them kissing on screen....whatever. He probably thinks he's clever. 

 

As for the case..creepy yes and we've had many a case where Mulder and Scully so nothing to impact the case and the supernatural stuff happens around them and works itself out but usually I understand why Mulder has a theory. What made him decide to look in Judy's room specifically? He didn't see the paper with the name until he was already in there.  Was it just the hangman part? Just because some of the victims hung themselves? They jumped off buildings too.

And actually Mulder being hot AND annoying saved them. Judy wanted to kill Scully because she wanted Mulder and her brother wanted to kill Mulder because he bugged him. Cross purposes. :)

All that being said I did enjoy the episode. 

Exactly. It's just so silly. The S rating was meaningless. Since there was no real physicality, minus some 'sexual' nudity.  

That said, I liked the case for the most part. Nice and creepy.

Edited January 18, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[AntiBeeSpray]

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

M & S were my first real ship, the longest lasting, the most intense. So I loved some of this episode, but for me, last week's was more real and romantic and resonant. So much of this just didn't jibe with that one: last week, they sparred and innudendo'd sexily and appeared to be at least semi-cohabiting again....this week, Scully makes a fuss about separate hotel rooms and made disapproving faces at Mulder's innuendoes...up til she climbed into his bed. I think I would have loved THIS episode if someone besides CC had written it, with more finesse and more smarts and some damned consistency.

Also, I have wanted a guy to put his arms around me a bunch of times in my life, and pretty much always got  that to happen, but never once have I uttered the words 'would you hold me?' in any variation. And I do not believe Dana Fucking Scully would have either. She fucking knows Mulder will hold her, always, any time, she's not ever going to be reduced to that simpery, clichéd bit of dialogue. And the convo in bed is one they would have already had, over the years...they lived together for a decade or more, they broke up, they've reconnected...or not, according to CC. I can handwave that some--even the most long term couples can feel awkward with certain conversations--but it felt needless. We all know they're going to be there for each other. They ARE indeed each other's one in five freaking billion.

And...the coyness. okay, they had sex, they've had sex, they'll continue to have sex, with or without handcuffs, but we can't even SEE a kiss between them here?

Also, there's a lot of squeezing on FB and elsewhere, and that's cool, I squeeed too, despite my criticisms, but I see a lot of 'they finally did it!!' kind of stuff, and for Christ sakes, we KNOW they've been 'doing it' for years, why the shock and awe?

Anyway. The episode itself was fun and creepy, and tho Mrs. Peacock played all her parts with extra huge helpings of ham and cheese, it was still fun to see her. "I just like the name Arkie!' made me laugh. I also agree that Scully being such a skeptic over things she's already seen over and over, and especially her not believing that evil exists, when, if anyone should know that there is evil in the world, it's M&S...that just defies comprehension. And yeah,  what is up with Gillian's voice? did she damager her vocal chords at some point? It varies between sounding sultry and just sounding...old....but it's distracting. She doesn't sound like Dana Scully anymore.

I did enjoy it, mostly, and the chemistry between the two of them is still so palpable...more worn and lived in and older, a little weary and sad...but so strong and deep. and this look at the end...I was already sitting down, but my knees caved in anyway:

 

 

Thank you! You nailed it about the MSR. So much didn't make much sense at all there. I couldn't just ignore parts of it either... since it was that awkward. It clashed with 'This'. Maybe if they flipped the episodes it would have worked out a bit better. But as it is now, it's awkward.

Edited January 18, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[domina89]

30 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Scully's line about even if she could have children, there's no one in her life she could have them with was just ridiculous. (I think this is what the Surfer Dude was referring to when he said that the "revelation" in "My Struggle III" was meaningful because the audience knows more about it than the characters do at present.)

Maybe I'm odd, but that line really didn't bother me.  I mean, if I put myself in Scully's shoes, maybe she was just hesitant to assume Mulder would want another child with her, considering what happened with William.  She was torn up that she had to give him away and feared Mulder would never forgive her for that ("The Truth").  Maybe those old fears are still there because she closed the doors on it and didn't want to talk about it.  I think some of that behavior is present in "IWTB" when Mulder is gently prodding her to talk to him about what she's feeling and she just won't do it.  I think that line just makes her a person with real fears and vulnerabilities, and perhaps was a passive-aggressive way for her to get some reassurance from Mulder in that moment.

[Batgirl]

I don’t understand the statements going around online that M & S “finally” had sex. Living together for years aside, they at least *think* they conceived William via sex, right? So how is this new?

 

That bed conversation (minus the age part) might have been satisfying around seasons 5-7 but seemed largely out of place at this point. This episode didn’t match with the tone of their relationship in S10 or the first two episodes of S11. I’m somewhat of a shipper, but I much prefer how they are depicted in This (& S10) vs Plus One. 

 

Also, I thought last week they couldn’t get into their FBI office (or “their” home— there’s a hint, Scully, that you might see each other outside of work— you know, by living together), but this week, weren’t they back to being regular in-good-standing agents?

 

Overall, I thought this episode felt like classic X-Files and was pretty enjoyable. 

[luna1122]

17 minutes ago, Batgirl said:

I don’t understand the statements going around online that M & S “finally” had sex. Living together for years aside, they at least *think* they conceived William via sex, right? So how is this new?

Right?????

17 minutes ago, Batgirl said:

 

That bed conversation (minus the age part) might have been satisfying around seasons 5-7 but seemed largely out of place at this point. This episode didn’t match with the tone of their relationship in S10 or the first two episodes of S11. I’m somewhat of a shipper, but I much prefer how they are depicted in This (& S10) vs Plus One. 

 

Also, I thought last week they couldn’t get into their FBI office (or “their” home— there’s a hint, Scully, that you might see each other outside of work— you know, by living together), but this week, weren’t they back to being regular in-good-standing agents?

It seems a significant number of shippers prefer the M&S of 'This" to "Plus one", tho I do like to see them snuggling in bed like the old married couple they essentially are. And you know, tho I bemoaned the lack of even letting us see them kiss, I don't NEED that. I don't need love scenes, as long as I feel that they are indeed partners in every way, even if they maintain separate homes, even if their romantic life is occasional. I'd be perfectly happy with no more TALK about the relationship....just let us assume/know there is one, let them seem contented together and not tortured, let us smile over the teasing and the sexy double entendres, and just get on with the monster of the week episodes.  Throw us a scene of them napping on the couch or spending the night together in bed, a kiss here or there. It doesn't have to be made a POINT of, just...let it be. Or something, I don't know.

 

 

They couldn't get back into their office cuz the Russian mobsters/subcontractors/whatever they were were after them. That's over, so they're able to go back to work at the office.

17 minutes ago, Batgirl said: