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Moxie Cat

Moxie Cat

12 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

Well, to keep balance in the universe there is Skating-while-American wherein any American skater is automatically deducted at least 5 points in PCS just for being American

This was incredibly obvious during the team competition, especially IRT the Shibs. But when Mirai hit the 3A, that was a deal breaker, fortunately.

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Mittengirl
Mittengirl

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MaKaM

MaKaM

(edited)
19 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I've noticed gymnasts don't seem to be particularly friendly towards each other either, so maybe there's just more cattiness in subjective sports as opposed to the ones where you're against the clock. 

Not always. All the top Americans are friendly with Larissa Iordache and I think the British team.  (ETA: There is at least a lot of InstaChatSnapping now that indicates more friendly relations than in the past)

Money might also be a factor. For figure skating, this is the moneymaker. The chance to get more sponsors. For skiing especially and snowboarding, showing up here is basically a charity move. The tours/world cup are are where they make their money. And with luxury good European sponsors and gorgeous fit athletes, there are enough sponsors to go around for the top group. If figure skaters were on a month's long tour with weekly competitions and big money flowing, the group dynamics might change. 

Edited by MaKaM
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stealinghome

stealinghome

I also wonder if career longevity plays a part. Skiers and snowboarders seem to have, on average, longer top-level competitive careers than gymnasts or figure skaters. Part of it may be that skiers, snowboarders, etc may figure they have more bites at the apple, while gymnasts and figure skaters might feel like a single Olympics is their one shot?

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absnow54

absnow54

1 hour ago, HartofDixie said:

It will be interesting to see what the judges do if she hits.  It won't be easy in the first group (& first skater).  She scored 67.01 at Skate America and 68.94 (seasons best) in the Team Event.

I agree with others that Bradie is limited by her PCS. Her technical score is fairly consistent and she probably won't milk many more points from that. I think she'll probably end up top 10, or close to it, but has little chance of breaking the top 5. She either needs to improve her artistry (I would describe her skating as flailing between elements) or up her technical content since landing her jumps doesn't seem to be a challenge for her.

That said, I think Mirai and Karen are huge wild cards. They can crack the top 5 internationally on a good day, but those good days are really inconsistent. Mirai performed well at her last Olympics and seemed ready for the challenge during the Team Event, so I have high hopes for her. Karen, I think will end up somewhere around Bradie.

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CeeBeeGee

CeeBeeGee

1 minute ago, MaKaM said:

Not always. All the top Americans are friendly with Larissa Iordache and I think the British team. 

Money might also be a factor. For figure skating, this is the moneymaker. The chance to get more sponsors. For skiing especially and snowboarding, showing up here is basically a charity move. The tours/world cup are are where they make their money. And with luxury good European sponsors and gorgeous fit athletes, there are enough sponsors to go around for the top group. If figure skaters were on a month's long tour with weekly competitions and big money flowing, the group dynamics might change. 

The Americans might not be friendly toward the Russians because the Russians are such poor losers. Vika Komova accused the Americans of using steroids after the Russians ended up in 4th place behind the Brits at 2015 Worlds, and after it came out that Simone was on medication to control her ADD, medication that was known and allowed by the IOC, there was some very unpleasant name-calling and accusations in the Russian media, pushed by some of the gymnasts, including Maria Paseka, themselves. Not to mention Svetlana Khorkina's rantings after she came in second in the AA in Athens. (I will say, contrary to tacky Al Trautwig's (Shut up, Al!) characterization of her as a diva, Musty seems to have always acted very gracious toward the Americans.)

Larisa is a breath of fresh air compared to that kind of toxicity.

Anyway. Back to skating! This is why I've never liked Plushenko. You were outskated in Vancouver (and in SLC). Just admit it.

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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

(edited)
1 minute ago, Moxie Cat said:

Since Bradie's first, she should shortly after 8pm EST. As for others - wasn't there a link to a site that had expected times a few pages back? Maybe someone has that.

I went looking after I asked because I thought hey why don't you figure it out for yourself lol and anyway I found a link with times: https://www.olympic.org/pyeongchang-2018/results/resOWG2018/pdf/OWG2018/FSK/OWG2018_FSK_C51A2_FSKWSINGLES-----------QUAL000100--.pdf

Edited by peachmangosteen
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SeanC

SeanC

(edited)
8 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I think skating after P/C didn't do them any favors, either. There was no excitement left in the room.  They were sandwiched between the two main events. That had to suck. 

It's a good damn thing that no one had to skate after V/M. 

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Since there were a lot of good guesses re: last night’s medal winners...who do y’all have picked for the top three tonight? Winner? (Yes, I’m aware that it’s only the short program but I want your opinions before the ladies begin to skate.) 

Medvedeva, Zagitova, Osmond (assuming she doesn't choke).

Edited by SeanC
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MaKaM

MaKaM

18 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Are Mirai’s other jumps not as well done as the two Russians? Or is it just that they placed them in the back half and are flingy?

She gained a rep for underrotating so now the judges examine every landing with a microscope. There is no "benefit to the athlete" for Mirai's jumps. And then she gets junior-level PCS to go with the downgrades and she ends up well behind the curve. Lots of other skaters seem to get their questionable landings brushed aside, but the last few seasons, not Mirai.

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specialj67

specialj67

9 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Are Mirai’s other jumps not as well done as the two Russians? Or is it just that they placed them in the back half and are flingy?

Mirai, unfortunately, has a history of under-rotating her jumps—especially the all-important triple-triple combo. Though she’s been working to address it in recent seasons (with mixed results?), once you get a reputation for that with the judges/technical specialists calling the elements, you’re almost automatically under additional scrutiny about it. Ashley Wagner has dealt with this as well (see her results in Sochi for instance), but not to the same degree; and the judges generally helped her more in the PCS than they do with Mirai.

And, surely part of the score difference is the backloading of Zagitova and Medvedeva’s programs. Plus, they don’t seem to be subject to the same level of under-rotation scrutiny and edge calls that other top skaters in their field are—this complaint of mine is mostly applicable to Medvedeva. 

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Moxie Cat

Moxie Cat

(edited)
21 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I went looking after I asked because I thought hey why don't you figure it out for yourself lol and anyway I found a link

Earlier today I scrolled through like 10 pages looking for the link to the story about Rippon and the eating disorders. (To no avail - we have a lot of pages here now!) Wasn't doing that again, haha! Thanks for finding it.

Edited by Moxie Cat
Souris

Souris

(edited)
1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

There's also way more beading around the mid-riff in the Olympic dress:

Grand Prix dress:

image.thumb.png.5a204e63c52ec170a6ec22c4e5c1596c.png

 

Olympic dress (tagged because it might be NSFW):

  Reveal hidden contents

gabriella-papadakis-and-guillaume-cizero

To me it looks like the bottom is the same but the top is different (similar, but definitely different). GP goes yellow down to green on the fringe, Olympic top is reversed, green down to yellow. Also, the Olympic top has all-over sequins/beading on the neck area, which on the GP top it's in discrete rows.

Edited by Souris
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MaKaM

MaKaM

9 minutes ago, Souris said:

To me it looks like the bottom is the same but the top is different (similar, but definitely different). GP goes yellow down to green on the fringe, Olympic top is reversed, green down to yellow. Also, the Olympic top has all-over sequins/beading on the neck area, which on the GP top it's in discrete rows.

Either way, note to Ice Dancers (and those with a partner) more of this:

ea053-button.jpg

less of this:

1200px-Hook_and_eye_clasp.JPG

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Avaleigh

Avaleigh

45 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

You know how we talk about Chan-flation and Skating-while-Not-Russian bonuses?

Well, to keep balance in the universe there is Skating-while-American wherein any American skater is automatically deducted at least 5 points in PCS just for being American. This deduction increases as the number of judges of European descent on the panel increases and can only be overcome by having a program with at least five quad jumps (Nathan) or being so technically perfect (Shibs) that not awarding the program makes the offending judges look completely asinine. :-)

I wonder what's changed in the sport in terms of judges feeling that Americans aren't as strong when it comes to PCS because the legacy is pretty solid for each generation or Olympic cycle. Kristi Yamaguchi was seen as more artistic than Midori for example. Nancy (by some) was considered to be the whole package. While Nicole could be sloppy, she was sort of a Christopher Bowman in terms of being performer and winning over the audience. Michelle Kwan was one of the greatest artists the sport has ever seen. In some ways I feel like Sasha's artistry has been unmatched by any other American lady. Sarah Hughes had obvious weaknesses like her posture and speed, but overall I think her artistry really improved by 2002 even if I don't feel she was ever as strong as Michelle or Sasha. Jenny Kirk was a joy to watch when she was on and her programs could be a lot of fun. Alissa wasn't strong with the jumps but there was no denying her beautiful lines, her musical interpretation, her flexibility, or her overall grace. Kimmie and Rachael weren't particularly strong here but they weren't the norm. Mirai's PC were strong at 14 and have only improved even if the scores aren't reflecting that. Ashley's strength is in the PCS.  

Also, think about how much stronger the American ladies were in comparison to the Russians of the 90s and early 2000s. Maria Butyrskaya, Olga Markova, Viktoria Volchkova, Irina Slutskaya, etc. All of them paled in comparison to the Americans IMO.

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herbz

herbz

51 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

The Americans might not be friendly toward the Russians because the Russians are such poor losers. Vika Komova accused the Americans of using steroids after the Russians ended up in 4th place behind the Brits at 2015 Worlds, and after it came out that Simone was on medication to control her ADD, medication that was known and allowed by the IOC, there was some very unpleasant name-calling and accusations in the Russian media, pushed by some of the gymnasts, including Maria Paseka, themselves. Not to mention Svetlana Khorkina's rantings after she came in second in the AA in Athens. (I will say, contrary to tacky Al Trautwig's (Shut up, Al!) characterization of her as a diva, Musty seems to have always acted very gracious toward the Americans.)

Larisa is a breath of fresh air compared to that kind of toxicity.

Anyway. Back to skating! This is why I've never liked Plushenko. You were outskated in Vancouver (and in SLC). Just admit it.

I don't have anything to contribute other than to say I worship Aliya Mustafina and can't believe (though I totally can because she's ridiculous) that she's out there doing UB routines approximately 5 minutes after giving birth.

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displayname

displayname

(edited)
1 hour ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I've also never really understood why her PCS are so low in comparison to others.

Because her programs aren't good enough on PCS:

https://www.isu.org/inside-single-pair-skating-ice-dance/isu-judging-system-fs/isu-handbooks-faq-sandp-skating-2/3221-program-component-chart-sandp-and-id-08-16-1/file

 

SS: Compare with Kostner

TR: Compare with Med and Zag

PE: Compare with Osmond's SP

CO: Compare with Miyahara 

IN: Compare with Karen Chen

 

I would rank Mirai's PCS in the low or at most mid "golden" levels for all five.

Edited by fan94
HartofDixie

HartofDixie

45 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Does anyone know approximately what times Bradie, Karen, and Mirai are skating tonight?

 

25 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Earlier today I scrolled through like 10 pages looking for the link to the story about Rippon and the eating disorders. (To no avail - we have a lot of pages here now!) Wasn't doing that again, haha! Thanks for finding it.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/sports/olympics/figure-skating-adam-rippon.html?referer

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