Season 7 Discussion

[Baseballcandy]

Josie almost looked pissed in that episode.  When the girls were getting ready, she never joined in.  At one point they showed her sitting on the bed by herself looking quite irritated.  She didn't contribute much during the sofa talks either and again looked like she didn't want to be there. 

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Baseballcandy said:

Josie almost looked pissed in that episode.  When the girls were getting ready, she never joined in.  At one point they showed her sitting on the bed by herself looking quite irritated.  She didn't contribute much during the sofa talks either and again looked like she didn't want to be there. 

Sounds like she's definitely Alyssa 2.0. Quietly biding her time until she can get the hell out of there.

[Lisa418722]

Tori, I realize in the Gothard world, all of you are anxious to hurry up and get married so they can spend time alone, get to know each other without chaperones, kiss, and have sex.  Things that people in the non-fundy world do without thinking about it.  But I just wanted to tell her to shut up and let Bobby propose when he's ready.  I also think Josie and Kelton may have one of the low keyed engagements when that time comes.  

[Saltgypsie]

ok.  Catching up on a few episodes!  Does Tori want marriage or just a ring?  that's all I've heard...ring..ring..ring..ring!

[tabloidlover]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 6:05 AM, Baseballcandy said:

Josie almost looked pissed in that episode.  When the girls were getting ready, she never joined in.  At one point they showed her sitting on the bed by herself looking quite irritated.  She didn't contribute much during the sofa talks either and again looked like she didn't want to be there. 

 

21 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Sounds like she's definitely Alyssa 2.0. Quietly biding her time until she can get the hell out of there.

I am finally watching it now and aside from wanting to duct tape Tori’s mouth shut, it’s interesting to watch Josie and Kelton.   They don’t feel the need to put on a show with their affection and she doesn’t seem to want anything to do with girly drama.  

I do believe we have found the fundy couple that just might break the rules...   Josie looks like a very independent thinker.  I’m loving it!

Edited February 11, 2018 by tabloidlover

[tabloidlover]

Another thought before I yell at those damn kids to get off my lawn.   Tori and the other girls are all about the proposal.   Very telling that Carlin said Tori wouldn’t be able enjoy the day if she didn’t look and feel beautiful.  I don’t even remember what MrTabloid or I were wearing that day or if I had makeup on.   What I do remember was it was quiet and intimate with NO ONE ELSE INVOLVED. 

Do these girls even think about the marriage itself?   I never hear them (or the Duggar girls) talk about the marriage itself, only the courtship, engagement and wedding.  

[sATL]

On 2/8/2018 at 10:46 AM, iluvobx said:

Michael works as a nanny.  She has for many years.  She did it before the marriage and she continues to do it.  I believe that most of the Bates girls do work.  I know that they took over for Lawson in the landscaping business.  We know that Alyssa works.  Even Erin still works as a piano teacher, so Whitney wanting to work would not be that big of a deal with the Bates.  Whitney may not care if she makes money but more of being with adults for a small amount of time.

Unlike the Duggars, the Bates believe in higher education for all their children.  I can't remember which son didn't want to go to college and Kelly begged him to at least go to a Tech school, at least for a semester.  She told him that he if he wasn't going to college, then he needed a trade.   Both Kelly and Gil hold college degrees (I believe that Kelly has 2 but I could be remembering wrong).

Bates believe in higher education ONLY at one very specific institution. What was a sad occurrence of events was Lawson dreamed of signing the national anthem at UT-Knoxville. I thought he wants to sing at a school that he (or any sibling) is not allowed to apply, let alone attend. 

With so many dependents, the family would have been provided an excellent scholarship/financial aid PKG from an university.

Time will tell if someone will venture out and earn a master's degree.

BTW: what was duggars the reasoning their offspring can't earn a 2 yr , trade, or 4 yr degree?

Edited February 10, 2018 by sATL

[Misslindsey]

Has it ever been mentioned what Trace is majoring in? Please tell me it isn't ministry.

[floridamom]

sATL: Michelle Duggar went on TV and said that since she and Jim Bob never attended college and did 'just fine' without the degree OR experience, they don't think any of their children need to go either.

[sATL]

1 hour ago, floridamom said:

sATL: Michelle Duggar went on TV and said that since she and Jim Bob never attended college and did 'just fine' without the degree OR experience, they don't think any of their children need to go either.

Odd, but ok.. I guess I am used to being around parents who think the opposite-want to give the option for their children to experience something they didn't/couldn't. 

[cereality]

Kelton and Josie are now courting per IG.  Seems like he asked at some nearby covered bridge and while there are a few strings of Christmas lights on the bridge -- that seems to be it from a “planning” perspective.  He’s in jeans and a Nike pullover.  She looks nice but not over the top made up and has a coat on over her outfit which seems like it’s her daily coat – not something specifically matching the outfit she’d wear.  Guess we’ll have to see if there were any over the top scavenger hunts or special songs some other nonsense before he asked – but I wouldn’t be surprised if there weren’t.  Josie seems reserved but for whatever reason she also seems MUCH more secure than Tori/Carlin/Erin/Michaela.  Her attitude thus far appears to be -- yeah he likes me, I like him, we’ll probably get married but I don’t have to act like an idiot just bc I have a bf.  Whereas all of Tori/Carlin/Erin/Michael were more like – OMG he notices me, I MUST get him to notice me more; do you think he loves me yet; I MUST lock this down ASAP; do you want to propose, can you propose, how about now, or now or now????

And clearly Kelton must be one of those guys who doesn’t need to be chased.  I feel like Bobby and Evan enjoy the fact that someone is lusting after them and desperate for them – Kelton clearly doesn’t need that bc if he did, he wouldn’t have gone out with Josie beyond the first 1-2 get to know you dates bc he would have seen her reserved personality as uninterested.

In normal world, a 22 yr old male would likely NOT have proposed if his gf started acting like Tori.  All thru the get to know you, I had said that Tori seemed pretty quiet – i.e. much much less obnoxious than usual, even quiet at times.  I thought maybe Bobby had that moderating influence on her.  Turns out she was just toning down the crazy so she wouldn’t chase him off before courtship. Since we all know courtship is pretty much equal to engagement in that family, then she knew she had him and he wasn’t going anywhere – so then her true obnoxious self came out.

Frankly most 22 yr old guys would be turned off if a girl and her family pushed THAT hard for him to move to her.  Not saying guys don’t/shouldn’t move to their gf – but come on – most employable college grads would be turned off if their gf and her obnoxious parents were constantly setting out expectations that he move to bumblefuck Tenn. and work any job that’s available and live in a trailer.  Esp. if they were the kind of guy who grew up middle class in a nice home in a gated community.  And then when they agree to move and on moving day are hauling their luggage out of the car, she accosts him with – where’s the ring; did you bring the ring – in front of his parents and then proceeds that line of questioning every day until he proposes and her mother joins in as well, they’d be even more turned off.  Frankly all the guys I know in real life would hold off proposing (well no one I knew even considered it at 22).  They’d be thinking – hmmm – if she’s this desperate for the ring, when she wants a baby/more babies, a house, to move back to her parents hometown, to not spend Christmas with my family, whatever it is – she’ll beg like this assuming I give in . . . . Most guys I know would not propose or would be like – hmm let’s get thru 3-6 months of living near each other and see how I feel . . . .

[Bridget]

5 hours ago, cereality said:

Kelton and Josie are now courting per IG.  Seems like he asked at some nearby covered bridge and while there are a few strings of Christmas lights on the bridge -- that seems to be it from a “planning” perspective.  He’s in jeans and a Nike pullover.  She looks nice but not over the top made up and has a coat on over her outfit which seems like it’s her daily coat – not something specifically matching the outfit she’d wear.  Guess we’ll have to see if there were any over the top scavenger hunts or special songs some other nonsense before he asked – but I wouldn’t be surprised if there weren’t.  Josie seems reserved but for whatever reason she also seems MUCH more secure than Tori/Carlin/Erin/Michaela.  Her attitude thus far appears to be -- yeah he likes me, I like him, we’ll probably get married but I don’t have to act like an idiot just bc I have a bf.  Whereas all of Tori/Carlin/Erin/Michael were more like – OMG he notices me, I MUST get him to notice me more; do you think he loves me yet; I MUST lock this down ASAP; do you want to propose, can you propose, how about now, or now or now????

And clearly Kelton must be one of those guys who doesn’t need to be chased.  I feel like Bobby and Evan enjoy the fact that someone is lusting after them and desperate for them – Kelton clearly doesn’t need that bc if he did, he wouldn’t have gone out with Josie beyond the first 1-2 get to know you dates bc he would have seen her reserved personality as uninterested.

In normal world, a 22 yr old male would likely NOT have proposed if his gf started acting like Tori.  All thru the get to know you, I had said that Tori seemed pretty quiet – i.e. much much less obnoxious than usual, even quiet at times.  I thought maybe Bobby had that moderating influence on her.  Turns out she was just toning down the crazy so she wouldn’t chase him off before courtship. Since we all know courtship is pretty much equal to engagement in that family, then she knew she had him and he wasn’t going anywhere – so then her true obnoxious self came out.

Frankly most 22 yr old guys would be turned off if a girl and her family pushed THAT hard for him to move to her.  Not saying guys don’t/shouldn’t move to their gf – but come on – most employable college grads would be turned off if their gf and her obnoxious parents were constantly setting out expectations that he move to bumblefuck Tenn. and work any job that’s available and live in a trailer.  Esp. if they were the kind of guy who grew up middle class in a nice home in a gated community.  And then when they agree to move and on moving day are hauling their luggage out of the car, she accosts him with – where’s the ring; did you bring the ring – in front of his parents and then proceeds that line of questioning every day until he proposes and her mother joins in as well, they’d be even more turned off.  Frankly all the guys I know in real life would hold off proposing (well no one I knew even considered it at 22).  They’d be thinking – hmmm – if she’s this desperate for the ring, when she wants a baby/more babies, a house, to move back to her parents hometown, to not spend Christmas with my family, whatever it is – she’ll beg like this assuming I give in . . . . Most guys I know would not propose or would be like – hmm let’s get thru 3-6 months of living near each other and see how I feel . . . .

You can also easily replace "any normal 22 year old guy would be turned off" with 32 year old guy and 42 year old guy!

[sATL]

9 hours ago, cereality said:

Kelton and Josie are now courting per IG.  Seems like he asked at some nearby covered bridge and while there are a few strings of Christmas lights on the bridge -- that seems to be it from a “planning” perspective.  He’s in jeans and a Nike pullover.  She looks nice but not over the top made up and has a coat on over her outfit which seems like it’s her daily coat – not something specifically matching the outfit she’d wear.  Guess we’ll have to see if there were any over the top scavenger hunts or special songs some other nonsense before he asked – but I wouldn’t be surprised if there weren’t.  Josie seems reserved but for whatever reason she also seems MUCH more secure than Tori/Carlin/Erin/Michaela.  Her attitude thus far appears to be -- yeah he likes me, I like him, we’ll probably get married but I don’t have to act like an idiot just bc I have a bf.  Whereas all of Tori/Carlin/Erin/Michael were more like – OMG he notices me, I MUST get him to notice me more; do you think he loves me yet; I MUST lock this down ASAP; do you want to propose, can you propose, how about now, or now or now????

And clearly Kelton must be one of those guys who doesn’t need to be chased.  I feel like Bobby and Evan enjoy the fact that someone is lusting after them and desperate for them – Kelton clearly doesn’t need that bc if he did, he wouldn’t have gone out with Josie beyond the first 1-2 get to know you dates bc he would have seen her reserved personality as uninterested.

In normal world, a 22 yr old male would likely NOT have proposed if his gf started acting like Tori.  All thru the get to know you, I had said that Tori seemed pretty quiet – i.e. much much less obnoxious than usual, even quiet at times.  I thought maybe Bobby had that moderating influence on her.  Turns out she was just toning down the crazy so she wouldn’t chase him off before courtship. Since we all know courtship is pretty much equal to engagement in that family, then she knew she had him and he wasn’t going anywhere – so then her true obnoxious self came out.

Frankly most 22 yr old guys would be turned off if a girl and her family pushed THAT hard for him to move to her.  Not saying guys don’t/shouldn’t move to their gf – but come on – most employable college grads would be turned off if their gf and her obnoxious parents were constantly setting out expectations that he move to bumblefuck Tenn. and work any job that’s available and live in a trailer.  Esp. if they were the kind of guy who grew up middle class in a nice home in a gated community.  And then when they agree to move and on moving day are hauling their luggage out of the car, she accosts him with – where’s the ring; did you bring the ring – in front of his parents and then proceeds that line of questioning every day until he proposes and her mother joins in as well, they’d be even more turned off.  Frankly all the guys I know in real life would hold off proposing (well no one I knew even considered it at 22).  They’d be thinking – hmmm – if she’s this desperate for the ring, when she wants a baby/more babies, a house, to move back to her parents hometown, to not spend Christmas with my family, whatever it is – she’ll beg like this assuming I give in . . . . Most guys I know would not propose or would be like – hmm let’s get thru 3-6 months of living near each other and see how I feel . . . .

Very well said and many excellent points.

Sad to say, most men I know would have either 1)ran,  2) said go get the ring yourself if you want it that bad & quickly or 3) when the jeweler said the sizing was done and ready for pickup, burn rubber to the store & put it on the finger right then , just to hear peace.

What doesn't make sense is how come Bobby's parents are appearing so spineless? Sounds like Pa Smith worked hard and amounted some financial success-doesn't he have a business and/or church that perhaps Bobby should be starting his career at? Also I know a few moms who gave their sons "look with you eyes wide open speech" about getting involved with women who appear too desperate. Just b/c Tori & Bobby haven't slept together, doesn't mean trapping motives &games aren't in play. Tori is a great young woman, however I would think Ma/Pa had bigger dreams for Bobby - starting with daughters of their own friends & aquaintances.

I understand you have to let them make their own adult  decisions but show some fight.

[zenme]

It's sad that these girls are in that boy crazy stage of growing up, and that's where the relationship stays suspended until marriage.  

[woodscommaelle]

12 hours ago, cereality said:

Frankly most 22 yr old guys would be turned off if a girl and her family pushed THAT hard for him to move to her. 

Shit. I'm a 44 year old woman and I'm turned off by her.  I would HATE having to hang out with her for any length of time.  Same goes for Carlin. 

I wish we saw the other two outfits the sisters brought for the engagement bc the dress did her no favors.

[luvmylabs]

19 hours ago, floridamom said:

sATL: Michelle Duggar went on TV and said that since she and Jim Bob never attended college and did 'just fine' without the degree OR experience, they don't think any of their children need to go either.

I don't think everyone needs to go to college.  A good trade school can be an alternative. Licensed welders, electricians, and carpenters can earn a very good living.  But the Duggars don't do that either.  They just "help out" while the licensed people do the work and then claim they can now do that same work.  And Crown College is at least better than never attending any kind of higher education.  I do prefer the Bates to the Duggars.  They give their kids more freedom.  Can't comment on how closely they adhere to the Gothard philosophy.  Sometimes I think we only get half the story there.  Tori was so annoying!   But the proposal site was beautiful...where was it?  Asheville?

[cereality]

5 hours ago, sATL said:

Very well said and many excellent points.

Sad to say, most men I know would have either 1)ran,  2) said go get the ring yourself if you want it that bad & quickly or 3) when the jeweler said the sizing was done and ready for pickup, burn rubber to the store & put it on the finger right then , just to hear peace.

What doesn't make sense is how come Bobby's parents are appearing so spineless? Sounds like Pa Smith worked hard and amounted some financial success-doesn't he have a business and/or church that perhaps Bobby should be starting his career at? Also I know a few moms who gave their sons "look with you eyes wide open speech" about getting involved with women who appear too desperate. Just b/c Tori & Bobby haven't slept together, doesn't mean trapping motives &games aren't in play. Tori is a great young woman, however I would think Ma/Pa had bigger dreams for Bobby - starting with daughters of their own friends & aquaintances.

I understand you have to let them make their own adult  decisions but show some fight.

Do we know anything about Bobby's parents? All I know is there are 3 kids and they appear well to do just based on their house/property. But are they fundie/Gothard/some other cult members or are they merely evangelical or Southern Baptist? I know they're Godly people -- clearly based on how they speak, how Bobby speaks, and the fact that they were ok with their son going to an unaccredited Christian college and major in "ministry." But based on their home/lifestyle though, I don't assume that Bobby's dad has a ministry or business. As far as I know, the "you must own your own business" is a Gothard/other cult requirement bc God forbid you hold a job because then you may have to work for [gasp] a non practicing Christian/atheist/Jew/Muslim or [gasp] a female boss . . . . But let's be honest, in all the fundie families we've seen, these businesses aren't anything to write home about and they would have been better off sticking with a job. I'm not convinced that the Bates weren't paycheck to paycheck (bc otherwise why you negotiate for EVERYTHING the way Gil does); maybe things are easier now though bc the tv show brings in extra $ and it's easier bc 5+ kids are off the payroll and Lawson and Nathan seem to live at home at least part time but bring in their own money and thus are probably responsible for their own expenses. Frankly Gil would've done better if he had stayed in sales even after the layoff and picked up another corporate job with benefits, 401k etc. Same with people like Mike Seewald who purport to work for themselves -- but the business is repairing windshields which requires a TON of business to make real money. JB Duggar is the only one who has been saavy enough to make out well by buying cell phone towers, land etc.

Frankly it's possible that Bobby's dad has made his money in a job. And it's quite possible that job is something professional; if he's an engineer or IT guy or lawyer, he can't exactly ask his boss to consider hiring his son -- the ministry major. I feel like lots of people find religion AFTER they are in their profession/as they have their own kids; so then they're sooooo proud to raise Godly kids who don't want to go to U Florida like they did but would rather go to nothing colleges to be youth ministers. Great -- but do you realize the kid is not going to be able to maintain the standard of living in which he was raised and that standard of living is bc YOU went to regular college and got a regular profession and it doesn't seem to have hindered your Godliness??

And we don't know that Bobby's parents didn't privately tell him to slow it down, not rush into marriage, establish a career first, NOT move to Tenn. to live in a trailer and work in a scrap yard all for Tori. But I feel like parents of sons tend to say these things 1x and then back off bc they realize their son will do what he wants and if they give indications that they're not 100% in favor -- then that son becomes part of the Bates family and they're lucky to see him 1x//yr.  Let's be honest that's going to happen anyway. Her family is loud and obnoxious (and so is his wife) -- she's going to make sure that even when they're in Nashville, they'll be going back to the Bates home often; his parents know that they'll have to make efforts to keep going up to see them to stay involved in their son's life. Though it helps that they live by the beach -- Princess Tori will probably tire of the winter at least 1x/yr, so there's that excuse for a cheap vacation to the inlaws.

Maybe it's just me but Bobby's parents look slightly annoyed by Tori and the Bates. It's just in the little comments -- in the car to the proposal; after the proposal when his dad says -- didn't expect he'd marry into a family where he'd get 18 brother/sisters in law. And even the first time they went to Bates house -- they honestly seemed more thrilled to see Kelton when he came over than when they saw Tori at the trailer or the Bates parents.

[Sew Sumi]

Josie and Kelton

[lookeyloo]

3 hours ago, cereality said:

Do we know anything about Bobby's parents? All I know is there are 3 kids and they appear well to do just based on their house/property. But are they fundie/Gothard/some other cult members or are they merely evangelical or Southern Baptist? I know they're Godly people -- clearly based on how they speak, how Bobby speaks, and the fact that they were ok with their son going to an unaccredited Christian college and major in "ministry." But based on their home/lifestyle though, I don't assume that Bobby's dad has a ministry or business. As far as I know, the "you must own your own business" is a Gothard/other cult requirement bc God forbid you hold a job because then you may have to work for [gasp] a non practicing Christian/atheist/Jew/Muslim or [gasp] a female boss . . . . But let's be honest, in all the fundie families we've seen, these businesses aren't anything to write home about and they would have been better off sticking with a job. I'm not convinced that the Bates weren't paycheck to paycheck (bc otherwise why you negotiate for EVERYTHING the way Gil does); maybe things are easier now though bc the tv show brings in extra $ and it's easier bc 5+ kids are off the payroll and Lawson and Nathan seem to live at home at least part time but bring in their own money and thus are probably responsible for their own expenses. Frankly Gil would've done better if he had stayed in sales even after the layoff and picked up another corporate job with benefits, 401k etc. Same with people like Mike Seewald who purport to work for themselves -- but the business is repairing windshields which requires a TON of business to make real money. JB Duggar is the only one who has been saavy enough to make out well by buying cell phone towers, land etc.

Frankly it's possible that Bobby's dad has made his money in a job. And it's quite possible that job is something professional; if he's an engineer or IT guy or lawyer, he can't exactly ask his boss to consider hiring his son -- the ministry major. I feel like lots of people find religion AFTER they are in their profession/as they have their own kids; so then they're sooooo proud to raise Godly kids who don't want to go to U Florida like they did but would rather go to nothing colleges to be youth ministers. Great -- but do you realize the kid is not going to be able to maintain the standard of living in which he was raised and that standard of living is bc YOU went to regular college and got a regular profession and it doesn't seem to have hindered your Godliness??

And we don't know that Bobby's parents didn't privately tell him to slow it down, not rush into marriage, establish a career first, NOT move to Tenn. to live in a trailer and work in a scrap yard all for Tori. But I feel like parents of sons tend to say these things 1x and then back off bc they realize their son will do what he wants and if they give indications that they're not 100% in favor -- then that son becomes part of the Bates family and they're lucky to see him 1x//yr.  Let's be honest that's going to happen anyway. Her family is loud and obnoxious (and so is his wife) -- she's going to make sure that even when they're in Nashville, they'll be going back to the Bates home often; his parents know that they'll have to make efforts to keep going up to see them to stay involved in their son's life. Though it helps that they live by the beach -- Princess Tori will probably tire of the winter at least 1x/yr, so there's that excuse for a cheap vacation to the inlaws.

Maybe it's just me but Bobby's parents look slightly annoyed by Tori and the Bates. It's just in the little comments -- in the car to the proposal; after the proposal when his dad says -- didn't expect he'd marry into a family where he'd get 18 brother/sisters in law. And even the first time they went to Bates house -- they honestly seemed more thrilled to see Kelton when he came over than when they saw Tori at the trailer or the Bates parents.

You are very right about this in my opinion.  I am a daughter in law twice.  First time inlaws were very against son marrying me. Long time ago.  But it put a definite wedge in any relationship knowing they were tsk tsking every time we were together.  And reminded their son he could have done better.  I was too immature to help things get better.  Second marriage parents same way because on paper I wasn't right for their son. After we were married about 8 years mother in law said to me she could see son was happy, therefore she was happy and we got along famously from then on.  But I was older and wiser and didn't take much offense. We are married going on 36 years.  I am mother of sons.  When oldest son brought fiancee from hell home I zipped my lips and tried to make nice as much as possible thinking I didn't want to lose my son.  Luckily she acted up/out and they broke up and I have a wonderful daughter in law but I also say "whatever you think" a lot when it comes to the grands or anytime an opinion is asked.  Nothing earth shattering and there are many ways that are fine even if it isn't what I would have done.  Other son is gay and somehow that is easier.  Also, that husband's family threw him out so he is just happy to have a mother in law who loves him.  The Bobby parents probably know they have to tread carefully.

[sATL]

3 hours ago, cereality said:

Do we know anything about Bobby's parents? All I know is there are 3 kids and they appear well to do just based on their house/property. But are they fundie/Gothard/some other cult members or are they merely evangelical or Southern Baptist? I know they're Godly people -- clearly based on how they speak, how Bobby speaks, and the fact that they were ok with their son going to an unaccredited Christian college and major in "ministry." But based on their home/lifestyle though, I don't assume that Bobby's dad has a ministry or business. As far as I know, the "you must own your own business" is a Gothard/other cult requirement bc God forbid you hold a job because then you may have to work for [gasp] a non practicing Christian/atheist/Jew/Muslim or [gasp] a female boss . . . . But let's be honest, in all the fundie families we've seen, these businesses aren't anything to write home about and they would have been better off sticking with a job. I'm not convinced that the Bates weren't paycheck to paycheck (bc otherwise why you negotiate for EVERYTHING the way Gil does); maybe things are easier now though bc the tv show brings in extra $ and it's easier bc 5+ kids are off the payroll and Lawson and Nathan seem to live at home at least part time but bring in their own money and thus are probably responsible for their own expenses. Frankly Gil would've done better if he had stayed in sales even after the layoff and picked up another corporate job with benefits, 401k etc. Same with people like Mike Seewald who purport to work for themselves -- but the business is repairing windshields which requires a TON of business to make real money. JB Duggar is the only one who has been saavy enough to make out well by buying cell phone towers, land etc.

Frankly it's possible that Bobby's dad has made his money in a job. And it's quite possible that job is something professional; if he's an engineer or IT guy or lawyer, he can't exactly ask his boss to consider hiring his son -- the ministry major. I feel like lots of people find religion AFTER they are in their profession/as they have their own kids; so then they're sooooo proud to raise Godly kids who don't want to go to U Florida like they did but would rather go to nothing colleges to be youth ministers. Great -- but do you realize the kid is not going to be able to maintain the standard of living in which he was raised and that standard of living is bc YOU went to regular college and got a regular profession and it doesn't seem to have hindered your Godliness??

And we don't know that Bobby's parents didn't privately tell him to slow it down, not rush into marriage, establish a career first, NOT move to Tenn. to live in a trailer and work in a scrap yard all for Tori. But I feel like parents of sons tend to say these things 1x and then back off bc they realize their son will do what he wants and if they give indications that they're not 100% in favor -- then that son becomes part of the Bates family and they're lucky to see him 1x//yr.  Let's be honest that's going to happen anyway. Her family is loud and obnoxious (and so is his wife) -- she's going to make sure that even when they're in Nashville, they'll be going back to the Bates home often; his parents know that they'll have to make efforts to keep going up to see them to stay involved in their son's life. Though it helps that they live by the beach -- Princess Tori will probably tire of the winter at least 1x/yr, so there's that excuse for a cheap vacation to the inlaws.

Maybe it's just me but Bobby's parents look slightly annoyed by Tori and the Bates. It's just in the little comments -- in the car to the proposal; after the proposal when his dad says -- didn't expect he'd marry into a family where he'd get 18 brother/sisters in law. And even the first time they went to Bates house -- they honestly seemed more thrilled to see Kelton when he came over than when they saw Tori at the trailer or the Bates parents.

Whoa.. by ministry I meant the church in the area, they or an friend attend. Not necessarily the smith-family owned church . I actually did think Pa Smith made his $$ by doing something a little more lucrative and stable. Hard to support a house of that size in a gated subdivision in FL unless you feel very comfortable in your monthly earnings. 

And I.m not saying to interfer to the point as not to marry Tori - but just ask/guide are you financially ready to marry period. Bobby and Tori are approaching this as if they are doing a step-by-step puzzle.just b/c he graduated, move to tn , slow down a little and get a little more stable.

Is this them : http://www.primerica.com/public/PrimericaRep?rep=robsmithjr

Edited February 11, 2018 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

Yup. Same name as Bobby, who would be Robert Ellis Smith III. Bobby's full name used to be his IG handle, but since the wedding it's changed to Bobby_torilayne_smith, ,so another couple's account. I wonder who will run this one? Bobby never posted much before, so it will be interesting to see if Tori takes it over like all the other Bates brides with joint accounts. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[iluvobx]

20 hours ago, luvmylabs said:

I don't think everyone needs to go to college.  A good trade school can be an alternative. Licensed welders, electricians, and carpenters can earn a very good living.  But the Duggars don't do that either.  They just "help out" while the licensed people do the work and then claim they can now do that same work.  And Crown College is at least better than never attending any kind of higher education.  I do prefer the Bates to the Duggars.  They give their kids more freedom.  Can't comment on how closely they adhere to the Gothard philosophy.  Sometimes I think we only get half the story there.  Tori was so annoying!   But the proposal site was beautiful...where was it?  Asheville?

1

It was at Linville Falls, NC (one the other side of Asheville headed towards Boone, NC).   It was interesting because Linville Falls is located in Pisgah National Forest and it is about 3 hours from Rocky Top, Tn.  

Truthfully, a little tired of these over the top engagements.  If anything is over the top, it should be the wedding and not the engagement.  Mriluv and I didn't have anyone around us when he proposed.  

[andromeda331]

1 minute ago, XrystalPond said:

The original story was that he quit. About 18-24 months after he apparently quit, there was a massive lay off. I think that they changed the story for the show to go with that, as it was more palatable for people to believe that he was laid off rather than quit.

ABC did a few stories on the family that included brief mentions of this. If I remember correctly, it was shortened to say when he left his job to open a tree cutting business. This is from a story from 2009 that was first published in a local paper (the Oakridger) and then republished online at http://www.wickedlocal.com/x381221689/Tennessee-couple-finds-17-kids-a-blessing

 

I love the part of Kelly wanting to do some kind of ministry with special needs. Boy did those kids dodge a bullet. I can't see Kelly being any kind of help to them or even working. Would you really have worked Kelly? Or would you have made Michael do the work? Maybe Erin and Alyssa too?   

[Absolom]

Kelly may have used the ATI booklets, but she also used more standard curriculum with the kids although I fear most of it was Christian related.

[Sew Sumi]

So Gil quit Nabisco in 2005. Zach would have been 16/17 (forget when his birthday is), which would have been seen as plenty old enough to Gothardites to work the family business. I really hope Gil didn't have Zach (or any of the boys who work/ed for him) up in the bucket until they were 18. Sadly, I doubt that they built in an "adult" precaution; I seem to recall one of the younger boys (sorry, I forget which one of the three is oldest) up in a basket in a BUB episode. He couldn't have been more than 13. I think the oldest of that group is about 15 now?

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

So Gil quit Nabisco in 2005. Zach would have been 16/17 (forget when his birthday is), which would have been seen as plenty old enough to Gothardites to work the family business. I really hope Gil didn't have Zach (or any of the boys who work/ed for him) up in the bucket until they were 18. Sadly, I doubt that they built in an "adult" precaution; I seem to recall one of the younger boys (sorry, I forget which one of the three is oldest) up in a basket in a BUB episode. He couldn't have been more than 13. I think the oldest of that group is about 15 now?

I really doubted he waited until the boys were 18 too. Don't forget Lawson was buying groceries for the family with his own money I doubt he was 18 or anywhere near it when he first started doing that.          

[Misslindsey]

Quote

Kelly may have used the ATI booklets, but she also used more standard curriculum with the kids although I fear most of it was Christian related.

If I remember correctly there was a video on Youtube a few years ago that had Lawson and Katie quizzing, who I believe was Callie, on history. I think Callie was five or six at the time, but she did well. 

[Adeejay]

 I felt sorry for Bobby.  Talk about pressure.  When they were relaxing at the lake with Carlin and Evan, he made the comment, “It doesn’t get better than this” and Tori’s quick response was, “It will when you marry me.”  After the proposal, it was hard to tell who was happier, Tori or her mother.  Too bad the damn ring didn’t accidentally fall off the ledge. 

[luvmylabs]

I like the Bates but this proposal stuff is getting crazy.  A romantic setting is lovely but this should be a personal moment between the two involved.  I don't think Tori even officially said yes after Bobby proposed.  She just wanted that ring...said it was lovely, etc.  but I never heard her actually say yes when he popped the question.

[riverblue22]

Gil could be a terrific salesman. Too bad he quit.

Josie is more reserved because she grew up with Tori and Carlin and couldn’t get a word in edgewise. She won’t be broken hearted to move away from the chaos.

[Absolom]

Sports rehash last night did not break the cable top 150.

[Sew Sumi]

Not surprising. Their core demographic was probably watching the figure skating. 

[floridamom]

This week's episodes were a waste...old rehashed episodes. Nothing new that I noticed.

[Bridget]

On 2/12/2018 at 9:23 AM, XrystalPond said:

I'm familiar with Carson Newman, which is where Gil and Kelly both transferred to from Anderson. Part of my non-Jewish family attended there. The school is accredited by SACS, which is a good sign. 

If I remember correctly, Kelly received a degree in human services with a minor in special education. I think that unlike the Duggars, you can see that Kelly has some experience and knowledge in homeschooling the children. They still use those stupid Wisdom Booklets/ATI curriculum, but I've seen her use some tactics and techniques that suggest she is familiar with some basic education practices. I am assuming that she is not licensed to teach with that minor and major. 

Interesting that Gil and Kelly encourage the older children who want to further their education to go to Crown versus Carson Newman. The cost for Carson Newman is less. But I suppose it is not as religiously strict. 

Nope, she wouldn't be credentialed to teach at any public school in any state, especially in any sort of Education Specialist position (new name for SpEd teachers). Religion based private school do not always require a post-grad teaching credential. I've always though it's such a shame that it's not a requirement because it's through that post-BA program where one gets a taste of teaching via student teaching, which is part of the curriculum. Just because someone has a BA/BS or even an MA in something, it doesn't mean they're a good teacher and/or have the ability to differentiate content or make sure that all students are learning.

[sATL]

If Tori - THE BRIDE TO-BE does not care about all of the wedding details, why have such a big wedding ?? That's what bugs me about their weddings - they have to be over the top mega affairs like it was the British Monarchy. 

I'm not saying they have to go to the courthouse with just a couple of witnesses to sign the certificate, but there is ALOT of room on the wedding day spectrum to Kelli's notebook of 10 pages.

Part of me is thinking - Kelli - did you NOT have the large wedding of your dreams , which means every child has to have such an big day so you can live though it? I didn't like Kelli leading the conversation and answering the questions at the bridal store. Sorry, hun -your day was decades ago - let the child speak - the store owner can pull details out of her. Eventually.

If Tori and Bobby were afraid/nervous to ask if they could move the wedding up- they are not ready to make their own decisions. They looked liked little teenagers asking to borrow the car on Saturday night.

Edited March 2, 2018 by sATL

[sATL]

On 2/12/2018 at 12:23 PM, XrystalPond said:

I'm familiar with Carson Newman, which is where Gil and Kelly both transferred to from Anderson. Part of my non-Jewish family attended there. The school is accredited by SACS, which is a good sign. 

If I remember correctly, Kelly received a degree in human services with a minor in special education. I think that unlike the Duggars, you can see that Kelly has some experience and knowledge in homeschooling the children. They still use those stupid Wisdom Booklets/ATI curriculum, but I've seen her use some tactics and techniques that suggest she is familiar with some basic education practices. I am assuming that she is not licensed to teach with that minor and major. 

Interesting that Gil and Kelly encourage the older children who want to further their education to go to Crown versus Carson Newman. The cost for Carson Newman is less. But I suppose it is not as religiously strict. 

sorry - I had to look up what "human services " degree meant... I thought her degree was in human resources combined with some kind of education .

"Human services is a broadly defined field that encompasses the aim of meeting human needs. It is an interdisciplinary field of study that strives to prevent and address problems as well improve the overall quality of life for clients. Someone who works in the human services industry will work to assist individuals and communities in their everyday lives"

another site:

"Through the bachelor's in human services program, you'll learn how to:

• Evaluate social, political and historical milestones and trends as they relate to human services' role in advocating for individuals, families and communities in need
• Apply culturally responsive strategies across diverse populations
• Apply legal and ethical standards to provide comprehensive, well-informed care
• Employ professional, interpersonal dynamics in formal and informal networks
• Evaluate policy development, communication strategies and coalition-building opportunities - the building blocks of social change
• Develop knowledge and skills in inquiry, critical and creative thinking, and decision-making"

{so SR yr of HS , Kelli, who seemed to do academically well in HS, met with her guidance counselor and said I want to go to a college to major in human services...}

Edited March 2, 2018 by sATL

[cereality]

Interesting that Lawson's lake party included 25 guys -- only 8 of them were brothers/Dad, which means 17 friends? And I didn't see Zach or any brothers in law or Evan/Kelton/Bobby so this was actual friends. Of course there was the requisite mumbo jumbo testimony about becoming a better man, trusting the Lord, learning from other guys about the Lord etc. which had to be on camera. But honestly I hope the rest of the weekend was just spent hanging out with friends -- talking about sports, jobs, prospective jobs, girl interests etc. I imagine at least some of it was bc at times we saw Gil off in a different boat with the 13-14 yr old boys, leaving the rest of the guys time to hang like normal mid-20s guys too. Honestly I think despite their fundy, the Bates kids esp the boys come across far more normal than many other fundie families bc they are allowed to have friends and hang out with people besides their siblings.

So I guess Bobby isn't marrying Tori for her winning personality? I mean who wouldn't love that combo of -- shrill and annoying with her loved ones but completely indecisive, giggly and "shy" in front of others to where she can't even confidently stand up and say -- I like dresses #1 and #2 and not #3. And the Bates so brain wash their kids esp their girls about marriage, that they MUST marry before college graduation whether they're ready or not. I mean Bobby and Tori are already engaged yet "scared" to tell Gil and Kelly they want to marry in Dec. instead of May? Um -- you're adults, you could go marry in Vegas and tell mommy and daddy after. If you're soooo scared re your parents' approval, maybe you're not adult enough to be a married couple either despite the fact that you're 21.

[gunderda]

2 hours ago, cereality said:

I mean Bobby and Tori are already engaged yet "scared" to tell Gil and Kelly they want to marry in Dec. instead of May? Um -- you're adults, you could go marry in Vegas and tell mommy and daddy after. If you're soooo scared re your parents' approval, maybe you're not adult enough to be a married couple either despite the fact that you're 21.

I doubt it's scared as in they won't approve but probably more of an understanding that getting married within 3 months is a lot different than getting married in 8 months. It puts a lot more pressure on people (like her mom) to get stuff done and her parents did express that they wanted it to be done after she graduated.  But of course she knew they couldn't be mad since her parents (and Erin? I think she said) did the same exact thing.  I think anyone should be a little nervous telling their parents that they plan to get married in 3 months.  Except the Duggars because I guess that's the expectation for them.

[Sew Sumi]

None of the Bates' engagements have been long, despite their longer courtships.

[Absolom]

Ratings for last night:  213K viewers and a .07 rating.

[Sew Sumi]

Crown received accreditation a couple of years ago and also has a trade school. Josie went to their cosmetology school, graduated in December, and got her license a month later. She's already working in a real, non-fundie salon. So, at least, that program is legit.

[Misslindsey]

16 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Crown received accreditation a couple of years ago and also has a trade school. Josie went to their cosmetology school, graduated in December, and got her license a month later. She's already working in a real, non-fundie salon. So, at least, that program is legit.

Hee! Can you imagine a fundie salon? They would probably specialize in barrel curls.

[Sew Sumi]

Definitely working out of a spare bedroom or garage. No way they have a real storefront.

[Lisa418722]

On 3/1/2018 at 10:25 PM, sATL said:

If Tori and Bobby were afraid/nervous to ask if they could move the wedding up- they are not ready to make their own decisions. They looked liked little teenagers asking to borrow the car on Saturday night.

 

 

I'm sure Tori has an idea of what wedding planning entails.  She has had (however many) sisters get married. 

They don't seem grown up enough to be married.  The snarky part of me was saying "we are desperate to have sex and we don't want to wait."  

Edited March 4, 2018 by Lisa418722

[andromeda331]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 8:25 PM, sATL said:

If Tori - THE BRIDE TO-BE does not care about all of the wedding details, why have such a big wedding ?? That's what bugs me about their weddings - they have to be over the top mega affairs like it was the British Monarchy. 

I'm not saying they have to go to the courthouse with just a couple of witnesses to sign the certificate, but there is ALOT of room on the wedding day spectrum to Kelli's notebook of 10 pages.

Part of me is thinking - Kelli - did you NOT have the large wedding of your dreams , which means every child has to have such an big day so you can live though it? I didn't like Kelli leading the conversation and answering the questions at the bridal store. Sorry, hun -your day was decades ago - let the child speak - the store owner can pull details out of her. Eventually.

If Tori and Bobby were afraid/nervous to ask if they could move the wedding up- they are not ready to make their own decisions. They looked liked little teenagers asking to borrow the car on Saturday night.

That's what bug me too. If the bride doesn't care then why does she have to have a big wedding? Why can't she get married at the courthouse with a couple witnesses? Or Vegas? Or whatever she wants. Its her wedding. Its not her mother's or her sisters' or anyone else. No, let's throw a big wedding the bride doesn't want and waste a bunch of money because that makes sense.       

[Absolom]

They must create the TV spectacle and also drag all their hundreds of "friends" and family out so they can have a gift extravaganza.

[Sew Sumi]

Thanks for clarifying. I worked backwards from the information they provided on their website. 

[geistmadl]

Nobody is buying Kelly saying "some hired of ours" hired a dressmaker. Like it was just an idea she had. (Did anyone else cringe when Kelly said it was "khaki" under the dress?)

No one is buying that Tori never went wedding shopping. She has been so hung up on that ring she probably rolls around in lace and satin in secret.

No one is buying that this December wedding thing was really a big deal. They discussed it on another show and she said she would probably wait but her family was like riiiiight.

No one is buying that the boy's trip is a yearly thing. Why are we just now hearing about it? Is Nat about to say he is courting? And why don't the girls get encouraged to do stuff like this. Not just the getaways but the sports.....

And for the love of god, please get an electronic wedding checkoff list/app!!!

[Carolyn15]

On 1/11/2018 at 8:44 PM, PradaKitty said:

I do have to say it again, the Bates Family sure seems to enjoy life much more than the Duggars. 

I agree so much.  I like to see Gil and Kelly be affectionate to each other( and their kids)  .  They love being in love.  All the family is much more loving than the Duggers.  

[flyingdi]

Does anyone else think Tori is being downright rude?

"What kind of cake do you want?"

I don't care!

"What kind of dress do you want?"

I don't care!

She's not only be indecisive, she's coming across as downright snotty about it!  At least Joy Duggar actually looked like she had no idea how to make a decision!

Two second of this attitude and my mother would've said, "All right my daughter doesn't want to make a decision?  I'm in charge now you will all go through me!"