Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[statsgirl]

What do they mean "the big two"? Do Karl Yune and Rilla Fukushima not count?

Can she act? I love diversifying the on-screen world but they've made some huge missteps in terms of casting (e.g. Hawkgirl). Chloe Bennett was the worst thing about AoS season 1, although she's really improved. Yune and Fukoshima, however, were a huge win.

If I've made some sort of faux pas, I'll see myself out - I just didn't think I would have to watch Arrow to post in this thread.

Don't worry, it's good to have new ideas brought into the discussion.

I was thinking they might kill Kendra to advance Ray's story as well, but that would make me so very sad. But as I type that, I realize they also have the ultimate ship stall built into these characters - they could kill this Kendra and pick up a different one with a different personality and have us watch that play out.

I don't exactly know how it works, but wouldn't Hawkman also appear then? Poor Ray wouldn't have a chance against destiny.

[BkWurm1]

I don't exactly know how it works, but wouldn't Hawkman also appear then? Poor Ray wouldn't have a chance against destiny.

 

I figure Kendra will live but Ray will again get his heart broken  via Carter.  Or that will be the threat.

Edited April 2, 2016 by BkWurm1

[nksarmi]

Eh, this Kendra didn't seem to like Carter all that much - destiny or not.  I could see a future Kendra not caring for him as well.  Or maybe if the future is so chaotic, we find a future Kendra where Hawkman dies but she lived.  Or maybe this Kendra dies AND the Carter from Rip's time dies, but Rip's Kendra lives and kills Vandal and decides to join the Waverider's next adventure.  At that point, perhaps Carter will no longer be reborn so Kendra is living her last life out completely free to be with whomever she pleases.  I mean, really, there are SO many possibilities. 

 

And if they did this, Kendra could not initially remember Ray but the more time she spends around him - the more her life with him comes back to her and after however long they want to stall that ship - she just kisses him one day and bam - they are back on. 

 

I know it would be confusing and a bit WTF - but really when you are dealing with time travel AND reincarnation - you can mess around with your fans as much as you want.  You don't need some stupid BM lie to create issues.

[foreverevolving]

I have to wonder if the "soulmate" thing is just a by product of the curse - which is why they are always drawn to one another, cause they were cursed together so they need each other to kill Savage and once he is dead the curse dies and so does the soulmate part, leaving both Kendra and Carter free to be with other people should they chose to.

[SleepDeprived]

Jessica Henwick, who has recently had small roles in both Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Game of Thrones, will come to Netflix and Marvel's Iron Fist as comicbook character Colleen Wing. The role is described as the female lead on the show, "an invaluable ally to Iron Fist as he returns to his life in New York." She joins previously cast Finn Jones, who will play the title role of Danny Rand aka Iron Fist.

 

Finn Jones? Loras Tyrell? Really?! Wow. Whatever miniscule of interest I had in Iron Fist kinda disappeared. Just give me season 2 of Jessica Jones already, Marvel-Netflix!

 

What do they mean "the big two"? Do Karl Yune and Rilla Fukushima not count?

 

Not only did they seem to forget Maseo and Tatsu but it's funny that the writer of that article seemed to forget all about Melinda May, too, who is also on AOS and is far more badass than Daisy, with or without superpowers. Is May not considered a superhero?

[Primal Slayer]

They want to keep it exclusive to Flash but I think it would cool if they had LoT travel explore the Multiverse for S2 and have them try to find their way back to E1.

[BkWurm1]

I have to wonder if the "soulmate" thing is just a by product of the curse - which is why they are always drawn to one another, cause they were cursed together so they need each other to kill Savage and once he is dead the curse dies and so does the soulmate part, leaving both Kendra and Carter free to be with other people should they chose to.

Setting aside LoT lore, in the comics Carter Hall and Shiera/Shayera/Chay-Ara  did have the curse on them but there didn't seem to be a way out, just that they were cursed with finding each other in every lifetime and falling in love only for their enemy to try to kill them.  It seems like everyone took turns succeeding or failing.   From the research I did into them (yes, for a fan fiction story back in my Smallville days), it never seemed to be a case of them needing to stand together against a common enemy, (though sometimes that is just what happened) rather the emphasis seemed to be first and foremost them falling in love.  (I am less familiar with their storyline as winged alien fighters so I'm skipping that stuff)

 

Kendra in the comics was a more recently (1999)  introduced twist to the mythology since she bucked the trend and rejected all the soulmate stuff.  She also at least started out as a full grown woman that only gained the spirit of Hawkgirl when she (Kendra) tried to commit suicide and Shayera's spirit or something took possession but Kendra while embracing the abilities rejected the Soulmate stuff when Carter Hall showed up.  I'm not sure if there has ever before been a Kendra that was born Kendra but was really Shayera from the get go.  (My research was more centered on Shayera) 

 

LoT seems to have created an amalgamation of Shayera and Kendra so I really can't tell where they are going with this. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/04/02/box-office-batman-v-superman-plunges-record-81-for-15-35m-friday/#1e4ad96b35dc

 

Huge drop for BvS.

Even without a World War Z or a Straight Outta Compton waiting in the wings, the Zack Snyder superhero sequel still dropped huge {81%} on its second Friday. That’s a larger drop than the likes of Fantastic Four (-78.7%), Watchmen (-78.4%), The Dark Knight Rises (-76.6%), Hulk (-76.5%), X-Men Origins: Wolverine (-75.8%), Green Lantern (-72%), and Man of Steel (-71.5%).

MG should feel vindicated.

[Sakura12]

That's what I waiting for. The second weekend is the biggest indicator for how well a movie was received. Normally they all drop about 50%. 81% shows it's not just the critics that didn't care for the movie. I don't think it will affect DC's next two movies, the ones after that might need a change. 

[dtissagirl]

I guess the rumors of Suicide Squad getting reshoots to make it ligher/funnier are not completely out of reason:

http://nerdist.com/suicide-squad-adding-more-humor-in-reshoots/

There's something we talk about at work quite often, which is how to get people to watch a movie a second time. We don't do that kind of marketing push for grimdark/depressing movies. Because the darker a movie is, the harder it will be for someone to want to pay for a second ticket to rewatch it.

[tarotx]

Oh I thought that was an April's fool thing.

[hogwash]

How weird is gonna be if they have 3 bad ones in a row? What is happening over there??

[Sakura12]

DC doesn't have to be as light as Marvel, but they can't have the movies just be dark and depressing. No one wants to walk into a dark tunnel to be met with more darkness. There needs to be some kind of light at end. I should walk out of a super hero movie feeling hopeful. 

[jay741982]

I enjoyed Batman Vs Superman. I was a bit shocked by the Ending of Climatic battle, but I remember what happened in Comics. I do agree that DC Films should have a little more light to them. The Trailer to Suicide Squad made me think it was gonna have Dark humor to it

[hogwash]

I just want them to make a good movie. Dark, light, whatever. I'm not picky.

[Princess Vanellope]

I just found it depressing. I don't have any interest in watching it again, which is probably not what they're going for.

[nksarmi]

I still haven't seen it but I hope to in the theaters just because.  But I will say that even people who seemed reluctant about BvS (for whatever reason) seem to be eagerly anticipating Suicide Squad.  I think that movie is going to do great for DC.

 

The other good thing they might have going for them is that to me - the trailer for the Wonder Woman movie looks good and she is getting good press from even the harshest critics of BvS.  So there is a silver lining. 

 

To me, the future of DC's franchise though is - can they make Justice League work.  If they can't, will anyone even want a Flash stand alone movie or Green Lantern core movie, etc....?

[BkWurm1]

  Yeah, I saw it this week and while it wasn't completely without merit, there is nothing about it that I ever want to see again.  Maybe a YouTube clip of Wonder Woman showing up at the Battle.  But the real damage was it convinced me I'm not going to like the Wonder Woman movie.  Not that she's not going to be awesome and epic, I can tell she will, but they basically gave away the ending of her movie

something happens that so disillusions her that she gives up on mankind for the next 100 years.

  I just can't take it on top of an already grim dark depressing BvS. 

 

That said, I did laugh several times during the movie, just not when I was supposed to.  Affleck in his Bat suit kept showing up in odd places.  Corner of a dark room holding still like a kid closing their eyes and pretending no one can see him, wearing a coat over his suit complete with cowl, reminding me of Laurel on the movie marquee as he stood completely out in the open on top of a crane looking down at the criminals trying to do covert things.  I also started giggling when actual bats started flying in a circle around him and he started hoverin, lol.  They really did a poor job of delineating between flash backs and dreams. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

I don't want to pile more on the bashing BvS bandwagon (I previously posted my own review in this thread) because I don't rely on movie critics to decide whether to see a movie, but I came across this Guardian review and thought it was pretty funny in parts (warning: rest of article contains SPOILERS)...

 

Batman v Superman is 153 minutes of a grown man whacking two dolls together
Lindy West  April 3, 2016
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/03/batman-v-superman-grown-man-whacking-two-dolls-together-lindy-west

... Did we stop making movies with characters and plots? Has the movie-going public lost their taste for story arcs wherein characters who have earned our investment do interesting, new things that make sense? Has the definition of “movie” changed from “motion picture story that a human wrote on purpose” to “700 only tangentially related 12-second grey and red vignettes”? Because I’ve just come from Batman v Superman, which isn’t a film in any sense that I’m familiar with, but rather 153 minutes of a grown man whacking two dolls together, with character profiles ranging from “depressed statue” to “depressed explosion”.
*  *  *
... Batman v Superman, unfortunately, is not a dream. It is really happening to you

 

On a more respectful and somber note, jbuffyangel posted a fan's comparison of

Superman's death scene (concept art) to a famous Rubens painting:

 

  

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/142223824233/apriki-batman-v-superman-concept-art-the

Edited April 4, 2016 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

Did they really have that many dream sequences? Why, what purpose did they serve? Did they just need to fill the movie with more nonsense instead of writing a plot? 

[tv echo]

In response to your question...

IIRC, Bruce has several dream sequences.  After the funeral of Bruce's parents, young Bruce falls down a hole, disturbing a ton of bats, but these bats magically lift him up out of the hole - dream!  Bruce also has a dream about Batman wandering about in a post-apocalyptic future.  He has a dream where Superman captures Batman, murders Batman's companions, rips off Batman's mask and blames Batman for taking "her" away from him.  And he has a dream about an armored Flash coming through a portal to deliver a message that Bruce was right about Superman and that Lois is the key.  A few critics have speculated that some of these dream sequences are teasing themes or issues in the upcoming Justice League movie.

Edited April 4, 2016 by tv echo

[foreverevolving]

The flash part was not a dream.. it is supposed to be the Flash time traveling to warn Batman.

[quarks]

Did they really have that many dream sequences? Why, what purpose did they serve? Did they just need to fill the movie with more nonsense instead of writing a plot? 

 

Yeah, they really did. 

 

From a narrative perspective, the dream sequences were meant to give us insight into what Bruce Wayne was really thinking, given that he had only Alfred - and very briefly, one Wayne Enterprises employee and a small kid - to talk to and was mostly doing the strong and silent thing. Snyder was also using the sequences to hammer home his various Deep Thoughts in an attempt to assure the audience that, like the Nolan films, this wasn't just a superhero film where things go boom and lots of people hit each other, and in what looked like executive interference to me, a couple of dream sequences appeared to be putting down some hints for upcoming Justice League films.  One of my friends also thought the dreams were a lovely way to get some BDSM hints into the film.

 

What I was mostly left thinking is that I tend to be happier with superhero films where things just go boom and lots of people hit each other.  Not to say that Deep Thoughts aren't bad - I'd even say Arrow has done some interesting stuff here, even if this aspect got really muddled in the third season for various reasons and has only been touched on this season.  But with a two hour superhero film, maybe just going BOOM is better.

[tv echo]

Here's an interesting EW interview with Zack Snyder, where he explains the ending of BvS [MAJOR SPOILERS for both BvS and Justice League movie].

Edited April 4, 2016 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

I ended up watching it this weekend after all. A friend visited, and wanted to go see it, so I went. They enjoyed it, so I don't begrudge it, but....I really did not. Hate is too strong of a word, but I came away feeling like I'd be perfectly happy to never see another film in this universe, maybe not even Wonder Woman, although I liked her.

I would agree with a lot of the reviews. "Bleak", "depressing", "joyless". I can see how it might appeal to a certain type of viewer, but I am not that viewer. And I hate the whole Superman as Christ allegory thing. I particularly despise it, and it was more blatant in this film than I've ever seen it, particularly (for me) the "removal from the cross" scene referred to above.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

Here's an interesting EW interview with Zack Snyder, where he explains the ending of BvS [MAJOR SPOILERS for both BvS and Justice League movie].

The ending would've been so much better if we had had another Superman movie before BvS and if we actually saw him become the happy go lucky hero he's supposed to be whose been accepted by the people he saves.

[Angel12d]

I'd agree with that. By the end of BvS I felt like I'd missed a couple of movies between Man of Steel and BvS. It felt like it should have been a Superman sequel because even the Clark/Lois relationship felt rushed and almost inorganic, particularly when I think of where we left them in MoS. And I thought Lex Luthor was rushed too. Even though I know he's the bad guy, he kind of came out of nowhere? I probably would have done MoS, Superman sequel, Batman movie with Ben Affleck, and then BvS.

 

I didn't hate BvS but they definitely skipped a few steps.

[BkWurm1]

The flash part was not a dream.. it is supposed to be the Flash time traveling to warn Batman.

I expect that to end up being true BUT dude is shown to wake up so until they prove it otherwise, I'm still calling the whole thing a dream because WHY would he fall back to sleep after that just happened?

 

Someone on this board called BvS Male FanFiction and that was exactly the feeling I got and not the good kind, but the kind you can tell was written by some teenager with all the good intentions in the world but not getting how much of a cleche' they were playing into.  A lot of the movie seemed like someone saying And then this happened and this happened and yeah, this happened too, but skips the parts for how we got there or why people would react like that or think that.  (with a few dream sequences tossed in to explore the "hey wouldn't it be cool" side trips that didn't fit anywhere) The big turning point in the fight was based on something that ONLY would seem profound to a child. 

 

The movie was very comic book like in that it was mostly a visual experience with dialogue saved for exposition and very limited conversations.   

 

Hate is too strong of a word, but I came away feeling like I'd be perfectly happy to never see another film in this universe, maybe not even Wonder Woman, although I liked her.

 

Yep, this exactly. 

[tv echo]

Although I mostly quoted the Arrow parts, this entire article (from TBI Vision) is interesting...

 

Superheroic acts
by Jesse Whittock April 5, 2016
http://tbivision.com/highlight/2016/04/superheroic-acts/571552/

Ahead of another season of fresh US studio dramas, Jesse Whittock investigates the role superhero programming will play as different forms of the genre proliferate on channels and platforms around the world
 

“Nearly every major network in the US has a superhero show,” observes one senior European acquisitions executive. Recent broadcast seasons in the US have seen ABC running Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Marvel’s Agent Carter, CBS play Supergirl, Fox score with Gotham, NBC reboot Heroes as Heroes Reborn and try and fail with Constantine, and DC’s Legends of Tomorrow join Arrow and The Flash on The CW.
*  *  *
Glossy broadcast network series were soon added to the ever-present animated kids superhero series of the children’s TV networks, showcasing an array of superhuman crime fighters and their villainous counterparts. “Arrow was the one that made us all sit up,” says Catherine Mackin, director of programme acquisitions at UK channel operator UKTV.

Since The CW show’s launch in 2012, superhero programming has been the domain of pay TV giant Sky in Britain. “These stories are all about a crusader righting the wrongs that other people can’t,” says the European paycaster’s director of acquisitions, Sarah Wright, who joined from UKTV the same year Disney bought the Marvel universe’s 5,000 (and now 8,000)-strong stable of characters.
*  *  *
Sarah Wright – who now oversees acquisitions for Sky’s UK and Irish, Italian, and German and Austrian units – says that darker-themed shows can work on linear platforms, too.
*  *  *
“Arrow isn’t always light,” she says. “The Flash (above) and Supergirl generally are, but Arrow can be more uncompromising. You could put darker themes on Sky 1, but the real question is, how much is too much superhero?”

Disney’s Endemano says the “concept of superhero has changed” through the Netflix shows, which have a three-year global SVOD window before they can be sold through linear channels, and through darkly-themed films such as DC’s Dark Knight franchise. “These are darker characters who you grow real emotional attachment for,” he adds. “There is a far more sophisticated TV and film-going audience, and that means the superhero is not just someone in a suit.”

“Are you making something like The Flash or Supergirl, which both have a sense of fun, or are you selling an Arrow or Daredevil, darker and more violent fare that is unlikely to cross over into the family primetime market?” asks K7’s Whitehead. "Marvel and DC have both defined their respective universes on the big screen with very specific and deliberate tonal choices, to which audiences have responded.”
*  *  *
US-based Parrot, a media-focused data-science company, might have an answer. The firm has used its patented ‘demand expression’ and ‘demand rating’ measurements to gauge appetite for superhero series in ten European countries – Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Spain, Switzerland and the UK – between January 2 and March 2, 2016.

The results make pleasant reading for Warner Bros. Entertainment and DC Comics. Arrow, which was the first superhero TV drama to follow Warner’s creation of DC Entertainment in 2009, is the most demanded of its genre in 2016.
*  *  *
Arrow narrowly beat out two other DC titles: Gotham, which took a 64.40 rating, and The Flash (63.76).
*  *  *
All three series feature male heroes and skew relatively young – Green Arrow / Oliver Queen begins Arrow as a billionaire playboy, Gotham’s Detective Gordon is a new recruit paired with an older gumshoe, and The Flash / Barry Grant is a brilliant but junior Central City assistant police forensic investigator.

“It’s clear from the Parrot survey that all these shows rely heavily on being social-media friendly, in that social media helps to drive awareness among fans and not-yet-fans,” says Nick Thomas, leader of digital media practice at UK media research house Ovum. “While this is clearly a huge driver among a core demo of on-demand viewers, it is also encouraged and harnessed well by the distributors and the VOD providers to drive interest.”

Edited April 5, 2016 by tv echo

[feverfew]

For me I wouldn't want to watch an anthology show.  If they ended up changing the whole cast I'd probably stop watching, I'm only watching for the characters that I already like. 

 

I'm all for a new mission next season but with most of the same cast. I could deal with losing Kendra (since she's the weakest link) providing they introduce another female hero. I'm not really picky about who at this point. They just have to cast someone that can act. I would however prefer someone from a different time, they have Rip from the future, so someone from the past.  

 

I've grown fond of Kendra over the last couple of episodes, so I don't even wanna lose her! :) But yeah, no thanks to a new cast - for starters, the show runners have been clever enough to mix up the pairings, so no dynamic feels stale. I'm okay with leaving some cast members for a couple of episodes (a bit like Heatwave) and having some other heroes guesting, but I want our core to stay the same.

 

Oh no, I was just honestly curious. I didn't know about the boards being organized differently previously. Thanks to both you and @tarotx for clearing that up. I certainly don't expect everyone to be all sunshine and flowers about the show all the time.

 

I was a bit bitter when I wrote the first post, and for that I apologize. For what it's worth, I will probably keep peeping in on Arrow-threads (no posting, promise!) just to see if TPTB will relent on the never-ending angst. Because I did like the show and its characters before - the downward spiral just made me dislike the focus point (O&F) of said angst.

[BkWurm1]

I will probably keep peeping in on Arrow-threads (no posting, promise!)

 

I hope you don't keep that promise.  And if you ever want just to give a good rant, the bitterness thread is (it's my understanding) just the judgement free zone to do it. 

[bijoux]

I was a bit bitter when I wrote the first post, and for that I apologize. For what it's worth, I will probably keep peeping in on Arrow-threads (no posting, promise!) just to see if TPTB will relent on the never-ending angst. Because I did like the show and its characters before - the downward spiral just made me dislike the focus point (O&F) of said angst.

 

This was honestly not my goal when I asked the question. I was simply curious. 

[feverfew]

I hope you don't keep that promise.  And if you ever want just to give a good rant, the bitterness thread is (it's my understanding) just the judgement free zone to do it. 

 

Ooh, the bitterness threads! Speaking of, I think I remember you from TWOP? Smallville? I spend a lot of time posting/lurking on the bitterness thread there... (Smallville burned me bad. Took years before I dared ship anything but canon with capital letters after that).

 

This was honestly not my goal when I asked the question. I was simply curious. 

 

Sorry, I was being facetious; I know that wasn't what you meant. But while dissenting voices can be interesting/ thought-provoking, a relentless stream of bitterness is a downer, and I don't want to pour tar on other people's enjoyment. So I'm just gonna lurk for a bit :)

[BkWurm1]

Ooh, the bitterness threads! Speaking of, I think I remember you from TWOP? Smallville? I spend a lot of time posting/lurking on the bitterness thread there... (Smallville burned me bad. Took years before I dared ship anything but canon with capital letters after that).

 

Yep, that's me!  (Long live Chlois)  I didn't even look at your name.  I remember you too.  :)

I still go around talking about my Post Traumatic Smallville Disorder.  Seriously did a number on my head.  Not kidding even a bit.  I tried not to care about Arrow and I spent most of season one expecting to get my heart ripped out by hoping for something on the Olicity front, but by the opener of season 2 it just seemed soooo blatant that I wasn't seeing things that the show wasn't pushing.  Or at least I was crossing my fingers. 

[AyChihuahua]

Sorry, I was being facetious; I know that wasn't what you meant. But while dissenting voices can be interesting/ thought-provoking, a relentless stream of bitterness is a downer, and I don't want to pour tar on other people's enjoyment. So I'm just gonna lurk for a bit :)

I had actual rage-induced insomnia bc of this show in S3, so I hear you. I just blamed different causes. Mostly I blamed Guggie. I also wanted to have Oliver tested for lead. I haven't and will never watch 3.ten-3.22. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Look - don't really care about the whole Laurel thing - my point was that if fans think Laurel getting fridged means anything for other DC shows, I don't think it translates. Laurel was a very special one off case due to circumstances. I could see LOT in a similar position though - because LOT took Justice League canon and turned it into something for these B-C-D list heroes/rogues. So there is a lot of wiggle room there. Not so much with The Flash.

 

It was just my personal belief that Laurel's death means that nobody on any of these shows is safe.  I haven't seen anyone else saying the same thing in the Arrow forums.  So, it's not really fans saying this...just me, this one fan.  But I wouldn't agree that the characters on The Flash are absolutely safe from death.  Lots of behind the scenes drama could pop up on that show in the next few years and lead to someone getting fired.  Who knows?  Outside of those kinds of circumstances, though, I don't see anyone permanently staying dead over there. I was mainly talking about LoT since there are a few people on that show that I wouldn't be sad to see die (specifically, Ray, Vandal, and Hawkgirl, for various reasons).  

[nksarmi]

Well they wanted people to think that no one was safe (save perhaps for the title characters).  In fact, they said that multiple times and depending on how long each show runs - it's probably true.  And you know in the last season of any of these shows - everyone is fair game.

[Sakura12]

These are real people, not comic super heroes. No one is safe if the actor wants to leave and normally leaving means the character dies. Either because the EP's are pissed that the actor wants out, or the actor told them under no circumstance are they coming back so kill the character. 

[Ruby25]

It was just my personal belief that Laurel's death means that nobody on any of these shows is safe.  I haven't seen anyone else saying the same thing in the Arrow forums.  So, it's not really fans saying this...just me, this one fan.  But I wouldn't agree that the characters on The Flash are absolutely safe from death.  Lots of behind the scenes drama could pop up on that show in the next few years and lead to someone getting fired.  Who knows?  Outside of those kinds of circumstances, though, I don't see anyone permanently staying dead over there. I was mainly talking about LoT since there are a few people on that show that I wouldn't be sad to see die (specifically, Ray, Vandal, and Hawkgirl, for various reasons).  

I don't know about behind the scenes shenanigans, but if we're talking uselessness of character only, the number one target of that on The Flash has got to be Caitlin, imo. Her acting is terrible, she serves no essential role within the cast, and she doesn't even have any canon stuff protecting her either. As far as I can see, the only thing kinda keeping her now is the fact that she's only one of two female regulars, but that could always be altered by bringing in someone else (like Jesse or Linda).

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they decided to off her in the next couple seasons.

[AyChihuahua]

There's nothing much on tonight, and man oh man is LoT TERRIBLE. I get that some characters are cool, SARA, but quite a few are...not.

[nksarmi]

There's nothing much on tonight, and man oh man is LoT TERRIBLE. I get that some characters are cool, SARA, but quite a few are...not.

 

I'm really sorry you can't get into it because I LOVE this show.  Their moral ambiguity and refusal to wrap things up in neat little bows while at the same time being snarky and funny is so appealing to me.  I mean rather than have Rip actually get through to the kid - he kills his dad in his sleep at the end of the episode!  They leave Rip sitting there wondering if not killing a tween was the right thing to do and it leaves the audience thinking holy crap - you should have just shot the kid.

 

To me, that is totally refreshing after Arrow's ridiculous "no killing" rule that leaves people alive who really should have died a long time ago.

[statsgirl]

Wow, it really didn't take long for Ray to move on from Felicity, did it?  He broke up with her three weeks before the end of the season, and he was sleeping with someone else who ghosted him a week before he blew up.  And Sydney?

I have to admit, I really like BR much better on this show.

 

I guess some people really don't have any goodness in them after all.  Next week sounds like fun.

 

Caitlin is one of the few things that makes The Flash tolerable for me.  We say that Arrow is misogynist but it has nothing  on The Flash.

[Sakura12]

I love LoT. It's not just dark and depressing all the time or light fluffy like the other Flarrowverse shows. It has the balance that I like. Yes, some of the acting is bad, really bad. But I don't care about those characters so I can ignore for them now.  All shows have weak ones in the cast.  They do kill people, I don't even know how many people Sara's killed since she joined the team. It's probably really high since she was in the League again for 2 years. 

 

The team acknowledges that Rip sucks and lies to them all the time and the fact that he always wants to kill a member of the team. They are in different time periods so it's not like they can just leave. 

 

I love how much Ray is so second fiddle. His brother is the one that becomes a legend in robotics in the future not him. 

 

This episode was a weak one for me. I have enjoyed the rest of them and I really hope the Wild West one is good. I love that Sara's dressed like a cowboy. No dresses for her. 

[BkWurm1]

I was assuming he was sleeping with someone before he left on the Waverider.  It would be a worse blow if he'd just broke up with Felicity only to have his new hook up ghost him, lol. 

 

The episode had some good moments but it felt really uneven.  More than anything, I think they need a new editor.  I usually like all the pieces that make up the episode, just they are feeling so oddly stitched together. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

Was there time between coming back from the dead and getting on the Waverider?  I thought it was between breaking up with Feliciy in 3x20 and when he blew up.

[way2interested]

Was there time between coming back from the dead and getting on the Waverider? I thought it was between breaking up with Feliciy in 3x20 and when he blew up.

Weirdly enough, my first thought was that he meant Felicity back when they were together and that that would be the reason why he goes to visit her in circa 413 per the promo, but then I realized time wise it still didn't add up. But honestly a random brother and a random thing with a nameless girl kind of bothers me more.

I think he mentioned not hearing from her in January, so it was some quick fling he had with a girl after Team Arrow saved him, which is still pretty random. So somewhere between November and January I guess.

Edited April 8, 2016 by way2interested

[tarotx]

He was "dead" for months and he was lost for a bit. That's why he didn't want his company back yet. Seems believable that he might hook up. 

[BkWurm1]

He was "dead" for months and he was lost for a bit. That's why he didn't want his company back yet. Seems believable that he might hook up. 

Since he was "dead" that probably means he was hiding his identity so the person that got ghosted was the real Ray, not the name, lol.  Poor Ray. 

[Artsda]

If the timeline is remaining, but in fact they made it worse does that mean Ray's twin is showing up in 2016 to work at Palmer Tech like Ray thought probably happened.

 

Or perhaps that was a a set up just in case LOT wasn't renewed for a 2nd season. They next season we would have gotten Ray's twin? 

[Password]

Wow, it really didn't take long for Ray to move on from Felicity, did it? 

 

Not that I'm trying to defend Ray, but Felicity slept with Oliver like 3 minutes after she and Ray broke up. Ray also has a history of moving on quickly. Who's Anna again?