Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Sakura12]

I agree, the circus episode was probably the worst of series, followed by the Japan one.  Nate pretty much lost his purpose after the Japan episode. He'll spout some basic history knowledge but nothing that makes me think he studied it for a living. He turns into the annoying dudebro frat boy that in no way sounds like he grew up a sheltered hemophiliac. It's not like they need a historian anyway. Gideon knows the past, present and future and I'd rather listen to her give us the exposition. 

I liked Sara killing the samurai because we always see her marital arts skills, that was first time they showed us her being an assassin. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I agree, the circus episode was probably the worst of series, followed by the Japan one. 

I don't know - there was that episode in season one where people were getting turned into some sort of bird-creature thing by asteroid radiation. :) Lol.  But yes, agreed that they're the worst for their seasons, definitely.

[Sakura12]

11 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't know - there was that episode in season one where people were getting turned into some sort of bird-creature thing by asteroid radiation. :) Lol.  But yes, agreed that they're the worst for their seasons, definitely.

The bird creatures were dumb, I think the rest of the episode was okay. Of course S1 had a really low bar to pass for good episodes. 

[Starfish35]

Just now, Sakura12 said:

The bird creatures were dumb, I think the rest of the episode was okay. Of course S1 had a really low bar to pass for good episodes. 

Lol true enough.  

22 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Nate pretty much lost his purpose after the Japan episode. He'll spout some basic history knowledge but nothing that makes me think he studied it for a living. He turns into the annoying dudebro frat boy that in no way sounds like he grew up a sheltered hemophiliac.

Yeah, Nate did (IMO) turn into one of the most annoying things about season two.  

That said, I do think they've made a bit of progress with him in the most recent episodes.  He was good with Mick in the Vietnam episode especially (the last episode before the crossover).  

[Velocity23]

[Sakura12]

23 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Lol true enough.  

Yeah, Nate did (IMO) turn into one of the most annoying things about season two.  

That said, I do think they've made a bit of progress with him in the most recent episodes.  He was good with Mick in the Vietnam episode especially (the last episode before the crossover).  

Nate's gotten slightly better, meaning he's not been as annoying lately. I agree he's best with Mick. Nate and Ray turn into to immature frat boys when they are together. And don't get me started on him and Amaya. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

So far I'm really enjoying Nate/Ray/Stein the most, I wish Nate's hemophilia was explored more instead of cured straight off the bat... But then again the Arrowverse always sucked at exploring disabilities/illnesses etc. IDK what people think about Nate but so far his character has been properly exposed and I've been enjoying him.

I don't hate Nate but he's my least favorite (though clearly a show favorite) and he did step all over Ray's character for a while in season two, almost copying him at times and of course getting in the way of the Ray/Mick bromance from season 1.  Nate got better as the season went on and he and Ray had some good moments as they distinguished between the two of them more.  

I like Sara but then I've always liked Sara and while I know CL wasn't super experienced when she first got the part, I still never had a problem with the acting and by this point, even what might be considered not great acting, by now is just how Sara behaves so I don't see it at all. (Like how EBR's talk crying that some complained about in season 4 to me is just how Felicity sounds sometimes)  I do love how decisive she gets to be and how she is unquestionably the leader.  Even Mick calls her Boss.  And she cares so much even if it's subtle sometimes.  

Jax took me a while to feel like I got to know him and yes that scene in the barn in the zombie/slave episode laid it on with a trowel but other parts of the episode made up for it.  In season two he got to be more of Sara's right hand man/little brother and I liked how they used him.  Mick had a lot of development during the first year only topped by Snart I think.  But get used to the voice, lol. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't hate Nate but he's my least favorite (though clearly a show favorite) and he did step all over Ray's character for a while in season two, almost copying him at times and of course getting in the way of the Ray/Mick bromance from season 1.  Nate got better as the season went on and he and Ray had some good moments as they distinguished between the two of them more.  

I like Sara but then I've always liked Sara and while I know CL wasn't super experienced when she first got the part, I still never had a problem with the acting and by this point, even what might be considered not great acting, by now is just how Sara behaves so I don't see it at all. (Like how EBR's talk crying that some complained about in season 4 to me is just how Felicity sounds sometimes)  I do love how decisive she gets to be and how she is unquestionably the leader.  Even Mick calls her Boss.  And she cares so much even if it's subtle sometimes.  

Jax took me a while to feel like I got to know him and yes that scene in the barn in the zombie/slave episode laid it on with a trowel but other parts of the episode made up for it.  In season two he got to be more of Sara's right hand man and I liked how they used him.  Mick had a lot of development during the first year only topped by Snart I think.  But get used to the voice, lol. 

Considering CL was studying to be a stunt performer, I think she does okay with Sara and like Bkwurm1, I've gotten used to CL as Sara.  Legends doesn't really dive to deep with her with real emotional stuff. Although Sara's reaction to Laurel's death was probably the only reason I cared about Laurel's death. 

I've also gotten used to the way Mick and Snart talk. I know it annoys people, for me it's just part of their characters. I also would never have thought that Mick Rory would be my second favorite character after Sara. 

[tofutan]

Not sure I'm feeling the hair. 

[Primal Slayer]

They waited an entire year to debut that boring ass thing?

[Sakura12]

The Legion of superheros are bikers? They are getting kind of lazy with their costume designs. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Sakura12

[tofutan]

Brainiac 5 and Kara do look sweeter than I expected in the promo pictures: 

https://supergirl.tv/the-legion-of-superheroes-gallery

[Oreo2234]

Quote

The Legion of superheros are bikers? They are getting kind of lazy with their costume designs

They could have at least added a little more color to them. 

[Primal Slayer]

 They should've added A LOT more color. They are from the future, let them be a little bit flashy. 

[tofutan]

There's some color but it's so muted you can barely see it. Deep purple for Imra:

[BkWurm1]

29 minutes ago, tofutan said:

Brainiac 5 and Kara do look sweeter than I expected in the promo pictures: 

https://supergirl.tv/the-legion-of-superheroes-gallery

Yikes.  I hope Brainiac 5 looks better live than in stills.  That wig.  That make up.  

[insomniadreams88]

Extended version of the "Suit Up" trailer:

 

There's something about it that I don't like, but I can't figure out what - and I don't think it's simply that I've had enough of promotion that's all about the masks. 

[Primal Slayer]

Esp Mon-El of all of em should've had a decent costume with some red and blue. He reminds me more of Superboy.

[tofutan]

Superboy? 

Not really my first association. Looks more like random scifi bridge guy in the background to me: 

[GHScorpiosRule]

40 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yikes.  I hope Brainiac 5 looks better live than in stills.  That wig.  That make up.  

I know I'm being shallow, but could they have made him more fuglier? I can't even look at him and not cringe.

Edited January 8, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[apinknightmare]

23 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Extended version of the "Suit Up" trailer:

 

There's something about it that I don't like, but I can't figure out what - and I don't think it's simply that I've had enough of promotion that's all about the masks. 

The extended extended cut features Rene and Curtis wandering off on their own. 

[Primal Slayer]

25 minutes ago, tofutan said:

Superboy? 

Not really my first association. Looks more like random scifi bridge guy in the background to me: 

Yeah, slap the S in there and he looks like their version of Kon.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Extended version of the "Suit Up" trailer:

There's something about it that I don't like, but I can't figure out what - and I don't think it's simply that I've had enough of promotion that's all about the masks. 

A promo about only the masks being heroes? 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Guest

[tofutan]

Eh, to me it's not Kon if I can't see most of his biceps. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Extended version of the "Suit Up" trailer:

 

 

There's something about it that I don't like, but I can't figure out what - and I don't think it's simply that I've had enough of promotion that's all about the masks. 

I think I like the shorter version better. As for SuperGirl saying she doesn't have to do it one leg at a time, doesn't she  wear tights or leggings under that skirt...so ..does she just jump into those with both legs at the same time? Does she just wear the tights all the time? LOL

That was a really dumb line and I liked it better when it seemed like Oliver was just saying "kay" to her doing it so fast. Bleh.

[quarks]

As "hilarious" as that meta moment of everyone following the lead of the CW's "publicity" department and forgetting the new guy, can I suggest - just politely suggest - that maybe it would have been better to use the money spent filming this on some publicity for Black Lightning?

Edited January 8, 2018 by quarks

[apinknightmare]

Is Dinah in that promo? Did I miss her?

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Is Dinah in that promo? Did I miss her?

her heel is.

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

her heel is.

I wasn't sure if that was supposed to be her or not - I thought she wore gloves? That person has a jacket on with a zipper at the cuff. 

It's also weird to have a Spartan locker being opened up with no Spartan in sight (unless i missed him too).

[LeighAn]

Such a boring promo my only thoughts were that Reddit will probably use it to make shipper music videos for super Arrow intercut with scenes from when they were nazis. ?‍♀️

 

I too too would have preferred seeing something more Black Lightning focused. 

[bettername2come]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't hate Nate but he's my least favorite (though clearly a show favorite) and he did step all over Ray's character for a while in season two, almost copying him at times and of course getting in the way of the Ray/Mick bromance from season 1.  Nate got better as the season went on and he and Ray had some good moments as they distinguished between the two of them more.  

I agree Nate's gotten better. I like Nate and Ray's friendship. I'm happy Ray has someone who he can nerd out with. They really did have a lot of similarities in season two, but they've distinguished them better with having him more history nerd and much snarkier than Ray. He's gotten a lot of lines I've really enjoyed. I think I've liked Nick Zano better in his sitcom roles, though.

[WindofChange]

1 minute ago, bettername2come said:

I think I've liked Nick Zano better in his sitcom roles, though.

Nick Zano made Holly from What I Like About You a lot more tolerable. He deserved an Emmy for doing that. 

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't hate Nate but he's my least favorite (though clearly a show favorite) and he did step all over Ray's character for a while in season two, almost copying him at times and of course getting in the way of the Ray/Mick bromance from season 1.  Nate got better as the season went on and he and Ray had some good moments as they distinguished between the two of them more.  

I can see why people wouldn't like him... He seems to have lost his purpose on the show within 2 episodes lol. Like I said earlier, having a Historian on board is a great idea if only they utilized him more effectively. I have been enjoying the Nate/Ray dynamic though. It seems like LoT balances things out with Nate/Ray. When Ray is mopey Nate is upbeat and vice versa. 

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Jax took me a while to feel like I got to know him and yes that scene in the barn in the zombie/slave episode laid it on with a trowel but other parts of the episode made up for it.  In season two he got to be more of Sara's right hand man/little brother and I liked how they used him.  Mick had a lot of development during the first year only topped by Snart I think.  But get used to the voice, lol. 

Yeah so far I'm not a fan of Jax's interactions with Stein because he tends to end up being whiny and child like and complains a LOT. I can see him being 2nd in command and almost like a little brother to Sara, that'd be a much better use of his character.

6 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I like Sara but then I've always liked Sara and while I know CL wasn't super experienced when she first got the part, I still never had a problem with the acting and by this point, even what might be considered not great acting, by now is just how Sara behaves so I don't see it at all. (Like how EBR's talk crying that some complained about in season 4 to me is just how Felicity sounds sometimes)  I do love how decisive she gets to be and how she is unquestionably the leader.  Even Mick calls her Boss.  And she cares so much even if it's subtle sometimes.  

I was indifferent to Sara in season 2 of Arrow when she was at her most complex and interesting but now she's kind of a bland character to me which is weird considering she's the captain, maybe this will change? But then I also really don't care about her emotional journey with accepting Laurel's death because it's... Laurel lol The show made me go from loathing Ray to liking him so I don't think how I felt in the past about characters on this show really matters. So maybe it's just the acting.

IDK I expected CL to grow as an actress throughout the series like EBR has on Arrow, but it doesn't seem like she has. The writing for Sara is actually pretty good and the show is obviously most invested in her, it's the acting that fails the character imo and leads to my disinterest. I think EBRs weakness is still enunciation but overall she's grown a lot.

[Trisha]

55 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

 I think EBRs weakness is still enunciation but overall she's grown a lot.

Yes! And is it just me or is she getting worse? I love her but this season has been especially bad (it doesn’t help that the sound mixing has markedly deteriorated).

Goodness, that extended promo makes it even more obvious that they mostly shot that thing separately and using doubles. I wonder why they didn’t try to squeeze it into the crossover shoot?

[way2interested]

27 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Yes! And is it just me or is she getting worse? I love her but this season has been especially bad (it doesn’t help that the sound mixing has markedly deteriorated).

I think part of it is that she's copying SA's technique of whispering some dialogue to set tone/mood, which makes sense in theory since of course Oliver's and Felicity's way of acting/talking would rub off on each other (heck, once EBR and GG started coming around, SA made sure to up his own comedic timing/character voice at some opportunities), but just sometimes comes off odd since pretty much all of the main regular cast (or at least SA, DR, and JH who have had a lot more to do this first half) do that too.

It's kind of like what happens when all of the Flash characters have to interact with Ralph and they switch their characters to a more jokey way of talking that feels off, except that case is way more noticeable and more out of character imo.

Edited January 9, 2018 by way2interested

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I think part of it is that she's copying SA's technique of whispering some dialogue to set tone/mood, which makes sense in theory since of course Oliver's and Felicity's way of acting/talking would rub off on each other (heck, once EBR and GG started coming around, SA made sure to up his own comedic timing/character voice at some opportunities), but just sometimes comes off odd since pretty much all of the main regular cast (or at least SA, DR, and JH who have had a lot more to do this first half) do that too.

It's kind of like what happens when all of the Flash characters have to interact with Ralph and they switch their characters to a more jokey way of talking that feels off, except that case is way more noticeable and more out of character imo.

Wouldn't that be a directing issue too? If they didn't want the tone to be a certain way, it wouldn't be, would it?

[insomniadreams88]

Watching the re-air of the crossover, and they showed the short version of the "Suit Up" promo, meaning absolutely no Black Lightning. Which makes zero sense, because you'd think they'd want to advertise their newest DC TV show even the littlest bit in a promo on TV. 

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Wouldn't that be a directing issue too? If they didn't want the tone to be a certain way, it wouldn't be, would it?

For sure, but if they all like it or are satisfied with it, it probably isn't seen as an issue for them (or if it's technical it probably might be a "we did the best we could to fix it" situation). Like how scenes/jokes that are seen as hilarious to them are off to the audience, such as Ray and Felicity's scenes circa s3 or the director for 406 (or even TC's s4 episode) of the Flash. It gets messy since sometimes they get it right (Olicity's stuff in 520, admittedly the opening joke of Barry and Ralph trying to stop the mugger in the beginning of 406,etc.) but sometimes they get it wrong (Ralph's intro episode, Olicity's conversation in the Arrow episode of the crossover, etc.). 

Edited January 9, 2018 by way2interested

[WindofChange]

Onto LoT 205... I actually really enjoyed this episode! Overall the plot was weak but the character work was strong even though a couple of characters annoyed me. Once again I need to note how much better this villain team up is. The actors are strong and they've had a strong foothold in DCTV before teaming up thus making them seem more menacing. Unlike Arrow, this team up actually seems earned and a formidable foe for the Legends team. Dahrk/Eobard also have such a great rapport going on there. 

Martin - He's my most favorite of the bunch right now. Seeing him be frustrated with his younger self and teaching his younger self to cherish Clarissa was such a treat to see. 

Mick - Probably my 2nd most favorite character after this episode. Him talking about making Ray more like Snart was quite heartbreaking. He misses his partner but had to let go and move on and let Ray be Ray. The end when he was snacking on a Donut because there was just 10 seconds to live was hilarious. It is worrying how little he cares about his own life though. 

Ray - He kind of annoyed me in this episode when he screwed up with mixing the streams. Like... just listen to Mick when he says you can't do that because he is the expert and knows more than you, Ray -_- The end redeemed him a bit more though. It also annoyed me when Ray said that he lost his company... Uh... No, Ray you didn't lose your company, you gave it away to Felicity.

Sara - She frustrated me in this episode. She put revenge above the team and she keeps lashing out at her team and it's the worst. First it was Ray and then Stein, telling him that he has no one he cares about when she knows he does. I get that she is grieving but it's starting to get old. Also Sara saying Laurel risked everything to bring her back bothered me... She actually risked nothing herself, every other character (Quentin, Thea, Sara, Nyssa) suffered because of Laurel's actions. Her speech at the end was decently acted and well written. I wanted to cheer for her but it was kind of dumb of her to tell Dahrk what happens in the future. Caity's stunt work in this episode was awesome though. 

Nate/Amaya - They had some nice chemistry in this episode, I quite liked their interactions because we learned more about Amaya (who I am really enjoying so far). Nate was kind of adorkable in this episode? But again, I still don't really know his purpose on the show. He's a historian? Then use that properly otherwise he's just tin man. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by WindofChange

[statsgirl]

The extended version of the Suit Up promo rubs me the wrong way because it pushes even harder that only suits and masks count.  It sounds like the mess of the first Fight Club didn't teach them anything.

 

2 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I agree Nate's gotten better. I like Nate and Ray's friendship. I'm happy Ray has someone who he can nerd out with. They really did have a lot of similarities in season two, but they've distinguished them better with having him more history nerd and much snarkier than Ray. He's gotten a lot of lines I've really enjoyed. I think I've liked Nick Zano better in his sitcom roles, though.

I feel about s2 Nate like I feel about s2 Mon El -- dudebro fratboys who I don't find interesting and that the show spends too much time on.  I like Nate a lot more since they moved him from lead male and love interest to friend of Ray and other guys and average screentime.  I hope they do the same for Mon El this season.

[Chaser]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

Yes! And is it just me or is she getting worse? I love her but this season has been especially bad (it doesn’t help that the sound mixing has markedly deteriorated).

Goodness, that extended promo makes it even more obvious that they mostly shot that thing separately and using doubles. I wonder why they didn’t try to squeeze it into the crossover shoot?

I think part of the enunciation problem is the dialogue. I was recently rewatching old episodes and her dialogue didn't used to be so involved. It's like they are giving her more lines with less time. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 Also Sara saying Laurel risked everything to bring her back bothered me... She actually risked nothing herself, every other character (Quentin, Thea, Sara, Nyssa) suffered because of Laurel's actions. 

Ah, but I can believe that when Laurel told the story it was all about what Laurel suffered, lol.  

I don't care that Laurel died but Quentin and Sara in LoT's first season made me feel their grief.  So I am ok with Sara's grief continuing in season 2.  

The villain team up only gets better as the season goes on.  It's probably why it's happening on Arrow now but there's just no way they can come close.   

[Miss Dee]

I love reliving Season 2 through your eyes, @WindofChange. Keep it up!

I hope you realize the episodes you're watching right now are the worst of the season.

[WindofChange]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't care that Laurel died but Quentin and Sara in LoT's first season made me feel their grief.  So I am ok with Sara's grief continuing in season 2.  

 

I think so for me Quentin made me feel his grief... Sara's grief just annoys me with how she's been but to each their own! Also of course Laurel would've probably made the story about how she got Sara back about her :))))))))))))

3 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I love reliving Season 2 through your eyes, @WindofChange. Keep it up!

I hope you realize the episodes you're watching right now are the worst of the season.

I will, thank you! :) Regardless of how I feel about Sara so far I'm really enjoying it and if this is the worst of the season then I'm guessing I'm in for a treat with the 2nd half of the season. I think it really helps that I love a lot of the other characters and that Sara isn't really the lead like Oliver/Barry/Kara are. They're all equals in terms of how much story they get. This is a true ensemble show.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, WindofChange said:

They're all equals in terms of how much story they get. This is a true ensemble show.

Thats one of the things I love about the show the most. Because its an ensemble show, they can focus on all of the main characters, instead of trying to figure out how to tie things into the more traditional "main" character of the show. Everyone gets development, they get to switch up the dynamics a lot (and by season 3, the actors are all quite confident in their performances and characters, so the writers can basically stick anyone with anyone and it will lead to a fun, unique dynamic) and they get to do comedy and drama. Its definitely the best at writing for a large cast of characters in the Arrowverse. By a long shot. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by tennisgurl

[tofutan]

There are crutches in the picture of Kara and Alex: 

What if that reflects a real life injury of Chyler and that is the production issue that they had? Maybe she was supposed to be in in the big "Kara and the girls go to Fort Rozz" episode and they rewrote it because Chyler was down for the count?

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

 

It's also weird to have a Spartan locker being opened up with no Spartan in sight (unless i missed him too).

I think you can see him in his mask as they’re marching down the hallway in the end. Aka stand in.

I still like the shorter version. This just goes on and on with more of the same. It’s monotonous.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, tofutan said:

There are crutches in the picture of Kara and Alex: 

What if that reflects a real life injury of Chyler and that is the production issue that they had? Maybe she was supposed to be in in the big "Kara and the girls go to Fort Rozz" episode and they rewrote it because Chyler was down for the count?

Well, per the picture, it looks like Alex is missing a leg.

[SmallScreenDiva]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its definitely the best at writing for a large cast of characters in the Arrowverse.

Well, it definitely helps that it is a true ensemble, IMO. The same can't really be said about Arrow, Flash or Supergirl despite the large cast of characters. So I'm not sure it's an apples to apples comparison in that sense. 

[tofutan]

Melissa Benoist will be on Jimmy Kimmel: 

Based on the date I would assume she is promoting Supergirl or Supergirl and Waco. Is anybody else doing media promotion for the return of the shows though? Like I would assume they would send the Black Lightning people to talkshows and stuff. 

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Well, it definitely helps that it is a true ensemble, IMO. The same can't really be said about Arrow, Flash or Supergirl despite the large cast of characters. So I'm not sure it's an apples to apples comparison in that sense. 

That is certainly true, and its a big plus that LoT has when it comes to writing for an ensemble. There isn't anything wrong with having one main hero like the other shows, and maybe it is unfair to compare them, but I also feel like the other shows have frequently struggled with their larger casts, and giving them subplots that dont feel like padding to keep the actors around. Like how much Supergirl has had trouble figuring out what to do with Jimmy after Kara found a new love interest, or the issues that Arrow has had incorporating their newbies into the show, I dont think the writers are awful at writing for multiple characters (which all of the shows have now) but they do have problems with it in ways that the LoT writers dont.