Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I wonder what this moment will end up being in retrospect: 

 

It's Tommy as Earth-X Prometheus.

[way2interested]

Just now, tofutan said:

I wonder what this moment will end up being in retrospect: 

Lol I think he liked that way more since he loves CD.

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I wonder what this moment will end up being in retrospect: 

That's Colin Donnell playing Earth X Tommy Merlyn/Prometheus

[leopardprint]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I do hope he knows his fans don't like Nazis or seeing Oliver as a Nazi!

Dude, for real, alternate versions of Oliver and Kara making out are far down on the list of issues I have with the crossover. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[WindofChange]

3 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I wonder what this moment will end up being in retrospect: 

 

Them finding Tommy being Prometheus most likely.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm glad it's out in the open to be honest. I've had a good week to tell myself "This is CW, they love this shit, just roll with it."

I'd be lying if I said I was thrilled by all this but hopefully we'll get good things so you just have to tolerate some lumps when you watch this show.

At least it's Dark Arrow and we haven't had Oliver try to kill Felicity. 

If she clobbers Dark Arrow that would be a bonus for me. 

[LeighAn]

Just now, tofutan said:

He always singles it out as apparently the most noteworthy thing to talk about (in you know, the crossover where Oliver's wedding happens). And I remember him writing something really gushy about how amazing her acting was. And how she is responsible for his favorite set moment of all time. And he was the one who immediately piped up and said he wanted more stuff with Oliver and Kara. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he was behind the idea. 

Now there is nothing inappropriate about anything he said, it just is such a huge crontrast to her total silence. And there is plenty of things she could say without is being a spoiler. 

I wonder what this moment will end up being in retrospect: 

He talked about Kara twice. Once at press gathering which was repeated in various articles and once at a con and it was in the Oliver and Kara have really interesting cool scenes together I enjoyed working with her variety not OMG I love Melissa so much I wish I could be on Supergirl Nazi Oliver and Nazi Kara forever which would be considered gushing. It's nice for Supergirl/Melissa fans which I'm assuming you are that Stephen mentioned her but it's nothing more then professional teasing about upcoming storylines and not OTT embarrassing gushing like what's being implied. 

[Cleanqueen]

His favourite moment has something to do with Prometheus and Tommy being Prometheus, it isn't about Kara.

But I am curios as to why you deem it embarrassing if Stephen seems excited to be working with Melissa. This is his first crossover where he gets to share a lot of scenes and take on a different/side dynamic to his character and hers as well, I am sure any actor would be gushing about that.

And Stephen nor anyone else but Paps have confirmed an Olicity wedding, he even denied it to fans who saw him at a con last weekend so I am not sure why he would be talking about a very spoilery moment in the crossover.

[Mellowyellow]

 He also wore a Mr Smoak pin and flaunted it on Twitter.  I think that says enough ?

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Lol I think he liked that way more since he loves CD.

Stephen is me with Tommy. I will be way more excited about that than most things LOL

[SmallScreenDiva]

28 minutes ago, tofutan said:

(in you know, the crossover where Oliver's wedding happens).

He's teased Oliver & Felicity's journey in the crossovers and done very spoilery things at the con, like wear a hat that says "groom" and the pin mentioned above as well as writing "about time" on a photo teasing an Olicity wedding, or "next time it counts" on the photo of the fake wedding. But he will NOT spoil the Olicity wedding in actual interviews. He'd get a phone call from TPTB, I'm sure. Also, if you've noticed none of the mainstream sites have actually spoiled it either, just some teasing. Despite lots of fans seemingly knowing about it, there are a ton more people at home who, IMO, will still be honestly surprised and Arrow -- and Stephen -- wants it that way. So, yeah, he won't be gushing about the Olicity wedding to the press and neither do Olicity fans expect him, too, I believe. He CAN'T talk about it, no to actual reporters. Fans, but not the entertainment media. The Olicity wedding is meant to be the biggest shocker of the crossover. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[LeighAn]

I think the fact that they are starting the crossover with Felicity supposedly being anti the idea of marriage is proof to the fact that they intended for Olicitys marriage to be the big hidden  surprise of the crossover. 

[Nijntje]

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎23 at 11:41 PM, leopardprint said:

So apparently three of the four shows all air on different channels in Canada? How is that going to work for the crossover? 

I was wondering about this too at first. At least where I live, if you watch live/PVR, it's actually 4 channels for the first run. Supergirl on Showcase, Flash on CTV, Legends on CTV2, and Arrow on Space. Arrow also airs on CTV on Wednesdays the following week. I don't get Showcase or Space, so I caved and started PVR'ing on the CW this year. I usually avoid American channels, but I didn't want to wait a week to watch Arrow on CTV, and Showcase no longer puts episodes of Supergirl on their website which is how I watched it last year. 

It looks like for the crossover, CTV is airing Arrow on Monday night at 10, so you'll only have to wait an hour if you don't get Space/CW. Space is airing the episode on Thursday in the usual slot. CTV isn't airing Supergirl at all though. 

[Featherhat]

5 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

His favourite moment has something to do with Prometheus and Tommy being Prometheus, it isn't about Kara.

But I am curios as to why you deem it embarrassing if Stephen seems excited to be working with Melissa. This is his first crossover where he gets to share a lot of scenes and take on a different/side dynamic to his character and hers as well, I am sure any actor would be gushing about that.

And Stephen nor anyone else but Paps have confirmed an Olicity wedding, he even denied it to fans who saw him at a con last weekend so I am not sure why he would be talking about a very spoilery moment in the crossover.

 Yeah I think he wanted to work with Melissa, and the crossover last year was "Oliver doesn't trust Kara even though Barry vouched for her and she's willing to do him a favour by crossing the multiverse." This year he gets a storyline with another lead that he hasn't before and Barry/Kara have had quite a lot of crossover so far for characters who are on two different Earths, so everyone's reminded Arrow is still a big hitter. It's a very different character to play which most actors seem to enjoy. Nazis in Love is worrying,ALT! Oliver/Kara really isn't.

Tommy being there, I want it but I don't want it. It's a shame CD got killed off and great that he's willing to return even though he has a successful show but I never wanted Tommy to become a Dark Archer. That will probably kill me the most (assuming its correct).

[Delphi]

14 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I have a feeling playing an evil version of your character is something a lot of actors relish. I get why Stephen is excited, even while I'm squicked that it's a Nazi character.

I think that's it right there,  and not even just an evil version of your character,  but effectively a different character, these people are actors,  playing something or someone completely different is probably always a treat for them.   And to Stephen's credit he's talked way more about Victor Garber than Melissa. 

[tv echo]

FYI, here are SA's comments about Kara/MB in the crossover (including implied references)...

-- SA tweeted: "I’d like to thank @MelissaBenoist for my favorite on set moment of all time. It’s a mortal lock for the blooper reel. #Legendary." (Oct. 14, 2017 SA tweet, page 398 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)

-- When fan asked what was biggest laugh on set he's had this season, SA: "Melissa Benoist in the Legends hour of the crossover. We'll talk about it after they air." (Oct. 19, 2017 SA facebook post & comments, page 635 of Social Media thread and page 403 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)

-- SA: "On a more serious note, working with Melissa Benoist over the crossovers has been an absolute treat. I think everyone is going to love the Oliver / Kara dynamic. (Even if they hate it.)" (Oct. 19, 2017 SA facebook post & comments, page 635 of Social Media thread and page 403 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)

-- When reporter asked if there were any cross-show pairings that he thought was really special, SA: "Yeah. Um, I really enjoyed Oliver and Kara stuff, but not in the way that you might think." When reporter asked in what way, SA: "I can't tell you. You'll know it when you see it, though." When reporter asked if it was different costumes maybe, SA: "Just in general. It's like - I got a chance to do some - Much in the same way that last year during the crossover we had our 100th episode, we put ourselves in this alternate reality. You know, we got to have these exchanges that you really shouldn't be able to have. Um, we get to do that in the crossover, which is great. Which is what you're supposed to do, right? Like, you're supposed to think, okay, within the context of the story that people are going to enjoy that makes sense, what people do fans want to see interact with one another? You know, and that's a long list, but I feel like we got to execute it, you know, this year more than ever." (Nov. 23, 2017 KSiteTV video of Nov. 7, 2017 on set interview with SA, page 11 of New Spoilers thread and page 429 of Mind Your Surroundings thread, and Nov. 21, 2017 Den of Geek article, page 428 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)

-- At a comic con, fan tweeted: "I asked Stephen for an OLICITY spoiler and he said 'Oliver kisses someone.... that... is not here' ??." EBR was present at this comic con. (HVFF-Atlanta, Nov. 18, 2017: emilyxamell tweet, page 1660 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)

-- Fan tweeted: "OK SO i asked stephen how triggering the nazi stuff is gonna be, he asked me what I meant, I told him they have jewish fans that are scared to watch." Fan report on what SA said: "He like... had a whole explanation set up. He said that earth x is an earth where the nazis won. (We know) So germany took over everywhere else. So if youre born in the US you’re automatically in the SS you have no choice in that" and "And then he was like evil oliver is born into that, he has no choice in it, but hes still a real person with real relationships. And then he paused and just said 'it all got approved so...'" (HVFF-Atlanta, Nov 18, 2017: UndercoverMenna tweets, page 1661 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

-- When asked for two truths and one lie about the crossover, SA: "I hand Felicity a gun. Oliver and Kara share a passionate kiss. And we do not spend any time whatsoever in Star City." (HVFF-Atlanta, Nov. 19, 2017: Prince MojoTM and Noticias Geek TV videos of OTA panel, page 11 of Spoilers thread and page 647 of Social Media thread)

Edited November 26, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[leopardprint]

29 minutes ago, tv echo said:

So if youre born in the US you’re automatically in the SS you have no choice in that" and "And then he was like evil oliver is born into that, he has no choice in it, but hes still a real person with real relationships.

I get SA was sort of put on the spot but isn't Nazi Oliver a leader in the Earth-X regime? It doesn't seem like he's a conscripted soldier so unless his family is being held hostage these comments are kind of nonsense. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[catrox14]

24 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I get SA was sort of put on the spot but isn't Nazi Oliver a leader in the Earth-X regime? It doesn't seem like he's a conscripted soldier so unless his family is being held hostage these comments are kind of nonsense. 

I think it's more like within the context of being born into the only system available to them in that situation then he opts to become a leader which likely brings much better life benefits to those under that system than being in a lower rank. Ad if there is any truth to any of the foilers that EX Oliver is really a resistance agent, then him advancing to a leader role is the best option to affect a change.

Edited November 26, 2017 by catrox14

[tv echo]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Ad if there is any truth to any of the foilers that EX Oliver is really a resistance agent, then him advancing to a leader role is the best option to affect a change.

I thought that was a fake spoiler made up by some reddit troll? (I would love it if it were true, but I'm not holding out hope.)

[apinknightmare]

42 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I thought that was a fake spoiler made up by some reddit troll? (I would love it if it were true, but I'm not holding out hope.)

It is fake. Per the spoilers from the guy who claims he’s seen the LoT ep, Kara dies of her condition and our Oliver stabs Dark Arrow in the heart. There wasn’t any mention of him being a double agent. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

It is fake. Per the spoilers from the guy who claims he’s seen the LoT ep, Kara dies of her condition and our Oliver stabs Dark Arrow in the heart. There wasn’t any mention of him being a double agent. 

Ahhh bummer.

[WindofChange]

I thought this was an interesting article. I agree with a lot of it, but I don't think they shouldn't necessarily get married... They just have a few issues to resolve. 

THE FLASH: WHY IRIS AND BARRY SHOULDN’T GET MARRIED
http://www.thetvjunkies.com/the-flash-why-iris-and-barry-shouldnt-get-married/?platform=hootsuite

Kelly Townsend | November 21, 2017

Quote

1. THEY’RE TOO CO-DEPENDENT

2. DOES IRIS EVEN HAVE A JOB?

3. BARRY NEEDS TO DEAL WITH POST-SPEED FORCE TRAUMA

4. ONE THERAPY SESSION DOESN’T SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS

5. SUPERVILLAINS WILL ALWAYS COME FIRST

They delve deeper into each point and they touched upon a lot of what I've been feeling watching the Flash this season.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 

THEY’RE TOO CO-DEPENDENT

It’s a bit of an understatement to say that Barry and Iris have been through a lot these last few years. While they’ve certainly come out stronger for it, they’ve also lost something along the way: independent lives. For most of last season Barry’s was single-mindedly obsessed with preventing Iris’ death, and since Barry came back from the Speed Force, Iris’ entire life has revolved around Team Flash. They both have the same friends, they see each other at home and at work, and the only person they confide to about their relationship is their shared dad. You know when your Maid of Honor is someone you’re not even that close with, but you pick her because she’s literally the only female acquaintance you have, you need to rethink your life choices.

Every couple goes through phases where they get too involved in each other’s lives and forget to be independent. Maybe not to the degree that Barry and Iris are right now, but it does happen. What’s important is that they take a moment to recognize the problem and try a little more time apart before saying “I do.”

 

I do think that Barry and Iris have ignored a lot of issues they should work out before they get married, but this idea of co-dependency is annoying.  For one, actual co-dependency isn't about being super into each other's lives.  It's about an imbalance in the relationship and usually enabling one half of the couple with their bad habits while putting up with abuse of some kind.  It's not working together and having all the same friends.  And while we never hear about Iris as a journalist, she probably still is one but even if she quit the job to be the team leader, she can independently decide to make that a priority without it being all about giving up her dreams to support Barry.  So far we don't have any reason to think they are actually any more co-dependent than Oliver and Felicity.  Being intertwined in one another's lives is not automatically a bad thing.  I wish people would stop trying to say it is. 

Now I do think that last week where Barry is insisting Devoe is a bad guy and Iris (and everyone else) is simply dismissing everything he's saying as pre-wedding jitters or that Barry is simply losing it, now that is something to look into.  Why didn't she believe him?  Or hear him out more?  Or offer options?  It's a thing where it seemed that Iris was more interested in the wedding than the marriage she was getting into.  But co dependent?  Not so much.    

[WindofChange]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I do think that Barry and Iris have ignored a lot of issues they should work out before they get married, but this idea of co-dependency is annoying.  For one, actual co-dependency isn't about being super into each other's lives.  It's about an imbalance in the relationship and usually enabling one half of the couple with their bad habits while putting up with abuse of some kind.  It's not working together and having all the same friends.  And while we never hear about Iris as a journalist, she probably still is one but even if she quit the job to be the team leader, she can independently decide to make that a priority without it being all about giving up her dreams to support Barry.  So far we don't have any reason to think they are actually any more co-dependent than Oliver and Felicity.  Being intertwined in one another's lives is not automatically a bad thing.  I wish people would stop trying to say it is. 

Good point! I think they just used the wrong phraseology.  I do think it's unhealthy to not have a life outside of your paramour though that part I agree with.

[SevenStars]

20 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

Now I do think that last week where Barry is insisting Devoe is a bad guy and Iris (and everyone else) is simply dismissing everything he's saying as pre-wedding jitters or that Barry is simply losing it, now that is something to look into.  Why didn't she believe him?  Or hear him out more?  Or offer options?  It's a thing where it seemed that Iris was more interested in the wedding than the marriage she was getting into.  But co dependent?  Not so much.    

Iris DID try to look into it. She had Joe check out the PCPD data base on Devoe, she had Caitlin contact her contects in the school that Devoe was professor at and she had Cisco and Harry try to find out any  Devoe's footprint he left in the technology world that might support Barry's theory that Devoe was up to no good. It wasn't until all these guys came back to her empty handed, basically saying that Devoe was what he appeared to be and Barry still kept going over-board trying to prove tbat he was right that she started to pull him back and started to question his believe about Devoe. She didn't simply dismissed it and told him they would be prepare for if/when Devoe show his true colors.

[BaggythePanther]

28 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I do think that Barry and Iris have ignored a lot of issues they should work out before they get married, but this idea of co-dependency is annoying.  For one, actual co-dependency isn't about being super into each other's lives.  It's about an imbalance in the relationship and usually enabling one half of the couple with their bad habits while putting up with abuse of some kind.  It's not working together and having all the same friends.  And while we never hear about Iris as a journalist, she probably still is one but even if she quit the job to be the team leader, she can independently decide to make that a priority without it being all about giving up her dreams to support Barry.  So far we don't have any reason to think they are actually any more co-dependent than Oliver and Felicity.  Being intertwined in one another's lives is not automatically a bad thing.  I wish people would stop trying to say it is. 

This all comes down to the writing. Barry has a life outside of Iris, we still see him working as a CSI and interacting with people outside of Star Labs at the police station. With Iris no one even knows if she’s still a reporter. Candice Patton has said that she’s talked to the writers about doing more to acknowledge Iris’s work in journalism but the writers aren’t interested. I just find it really strange that they won’t even mention whether or not Iris still works at the paper or if she works full time at STAR Labs.

What makes it worse is that Iris is basically the only character that doesn’t have a connection outside of the lab. Cisco has Gypsy, Caitlin has Amulet and Joe has Cecile. Wally (who has been missing for half the season) and Harry (a character that’s a sel described loner) are the only other characters that haven’t made any connections outside of the lab.

[SevenStars]

8 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

This all comes down to the writing. Barry has a life outside of Iris, we still see him working as a CSI and interacting with people outside of Star Labs at the police station. With Iris no one even knows if she’s still a reporter. Candice Patton has said that she’s talked to the writers about doing more to acknowledge Iris’s work in journalism but the writers aren’t interested. I just find it really strange that they won’t even mention whether or not Iris still works at the paper or if she works full time at STAR Labs.

What makes it worse is that Iris is basically the only character that doesn’t have a connection outside of the lab. Cisco has Gypsy, Caitlin has Amulet and Joe has Cecile. Wally (who has been missing for half the season) and Harry (a character that’s a sel described loner) are the only other characters that haven’t made any connections outside of the lab.

 

I don't like it but I don't find it strange considering in the past few seasons Iris, outside of Joe/Barry, was the only one who had connections outside of the lab. While Caitlin/Cisco/Harry really didn't have much. All of them only had each other. So I guess it's Iris turn right now. I hope this doesn't last but I'm not holding my breath since the writers want Iris to be part of team Flash and never really cared about her outsider connections which is really stupid of them and reveals their limited talent as writers.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

I thought this was an interesting article. I agree with a lot of it, but I don't think they shouldn't necessarily get married... They just have a few issues to resolve. 

THE FLASH: WHY IRIS AND BARRY SHOULDN’T GET MARRIED
http://www.thetvjunkies.com/the-flash-why-iris-and-barry-shouldnt-get-married/?platform=hootsuite

Well that was silly. The only points that were somewhat valid were #3 +4, which could be combined actually. They could show a few more scenes of Barry & Iris working on their relationship; but that's not really what the show is about, so there's only so much time they're going to devote to that. ::SIGH::

Edited November 26, 2017 by Trini

[SevenStars]

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

Well that was silly. The only points that were somewhat valid were #3 +4, which could be combined actually. They could show a few more scenes of Barry & Iris working on their relationship; but that's not really what the show is about, so there's only so much time they're going to devote to that. ::SIGH::

I'm not sure what issue they could be working out in regard to their relationships since the writers had them talk and solve the issues they had in one episode and people were pissed at Iris for bringing up their issues. So I imagine Iris would be getting so much more hate if this had continued. 

Personally, I wish the writers would use the therapy sessions for them to separately explore and talk about all the craps they had to swallow in order to keep fighting, especially Iris, who doesn't get much point of view for the audience to know how she feels/felt about things. 

[LeighAn]

Stephens the Nazis are real people with real relationships who have no choice is a garbage comment and suggest to me that the writers are going to treat this issues with all the sensitivity of garbage. 

 

Im sure some Nazis really did use similar justifications as Stephen did and that they thought they would get a better quality of life by joining rather then resisting but it doesn't make them any less selfish garbage. 

 

And as others mentioned Earth X Oliver looks like an SS Squad Leader not your average run of the mill poor little Nazi just trying to get by like Stephen is playing it off as. 

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Stephens the Nazis are real people with real relationships who have no choice is a garbage comment and suggest to me that the writers are going to treat this issues with all the sensitivity of garbage. 

 

Im sure some Nazis really did use similar justifications as Stephen did and that they thought they would get a better quality of life by joining rather then resisting but it doesn't make them any less selfish garbage. 

 

And as others mentioned Earth X Oliver looks like an SS Squad Leader not your average run of the mill poor little Nazi just trying to get by like Stephen is playing it off as. 

To me, SA is speaking from EX Oliver's POV of EX Oliver's life from a character perspective. To me SA is not justifying the Nazis behavior in WWII, he's explaining IMO his character's POV from an acting perspective. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Stephens the Nazis are real people with real relationships who have no choice is a garbage comment and suggest to me that the writers are going to treat this issues with all the sensitivity of garbage. 

That's the comment that's been giving me anxiety all week tbh, among all the general dread I feel having to watch Nazis. (Obviously no one is forcing me to watch but I feel like I need to see it for myself to fully judge.)

[LeighAn]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

To me, SA is speaking from EX Oliver's POV of EX Oliver's life from a character perspective. To me SA is not justifying the Nazis behavior in WWII, he's explaining IMO his character's POV from an acting perspective. 

And it still doesn't make it any less a garbage comment since EX Oliver is a Nazi. 

[apinknightmare]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

To me, SA is speaking from EX Oliver's POV of EX Oliver's life from a character perspective. To me SA is not justifying the Nazis behavior in WWII, he's explaining IMO his character's POV from an acting perspective. 

Let's hope it's his own personal interpretation of what's going on in the crossover and not something that he repeated because it's actually in the script.

[Guest]

[leopardprint]

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Let's hope it's his own personal interpretation of what's going on in the crossover and not something that he repeated because it's actually in the script.

OMG, that did not occur to me...and DR used the "perfect life" phrasing from this week's episode at a previous con and people thought it was weird...

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Let's hope it's his own personal interpretation of what's going on in the crossover and not something that he repeated because it's actually in the script.

Maybe it's the "real people in relationships" comes off as making them sound nice or it's approval but I'm not seeing it that way.  I'm giving him the benefit of doubt that he's not saying these were GOOD people. I think he was saying they are BAD people who still had relationships with other BAD people. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Maybe it's the "real people in relationships" comes off as making them sound nice or it's approval but I'm not seeing it that way.  I'm giving him the benefit of doubt that he's not saying these were GOOD people. I think he was saying they are BAD people who still had relationships with other BAD people. 

I wasn't judging based on what he said - I don't know what he meant. Like I wrote, I just hope it's something he interpreted because of what he read/played, and not something that was voiced in the actual script. Because there's nothing wrong with trying to figure out your character's motivations - even if they are a terrible person. But there is something wrong with trying to make excuses for them, which it seems like would be the case if it's actually in the script - that's all I was getting at.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I wasn't judging based on what he said - I don't know what he meant. Like I wrote, I just hope it's something he interpreted because of what he read/played, and not something that was voiced in the actual script. Because there's nothing wrong with trying to figure out your character's motivations - even if they are a terrible person. But there is something wrong with trying to make excuses for them, which it seems like would be the case if it's actually in the script - that's all I was getting at.

I guess it comes down to interpretation of SA's words. I didn't interpret that as being excuse making more like what is the plot of Earth X more than anything else. And I guess to me even if that is the plot that doesn't mean it's going to be portrayed as good or right. But I get where you're coming from.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I guess it comes down to interpretation of SA's words. I didn't interpret that as being excuse making more like what is the plot of Earth X more than anything else. And I guess to me even if that is the plot that doesn't mean it's going to be portrayed as good or right. But I get where you're coming from.

No, I'm not talking about SA making excuses for them. I'm talking about the writers - in the script - making excuses for the Nazis, by including any kind of dialogue about Earth-X people not having any choice about joining the SS, or by writing the relationship between Oliver and Kara in a way that humanizes them (because based on the spoilers, it seems like it will kind of humanize Earth-X Oliver, at least). I'm hoping that Stephen's interpretation is his own, and not something he's repeating because it's portrayed that way in the script. Similar to what @leopardprint wrote about David mentioning the Dominators showing the crew their "perfect life" which wasn't an actual interpretation of his, but something he said because it was in the script.

[LeighAn]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I wasn't judging based on what he said - I don't know what he meant. Like I wrote, I just hope it's something he interpreted because of what he read/played, and not something that was voiced in the actual script. Because there's nothing wrong with trying to figure out your character's motivations - even if they are a terrible person. But there is something wrong with trying to make excuses for them, which it seems like would be the case if it's actually in the script - that's all I was getting at.

I think the real people with real relationships might be his interpretation of the Dark Arrow/Over Girl romance, but I bet big dollars the whole they had no choice but to be Nazis thing is part the story/in the script since Stephen talked about it like it was part of the story and not his interpretation. Real Nazis that were put on trial claimed they had no choice they were only following Superiors orders but that wasn't viewed as a reasonable defense because it's not one. I'd hope if they have the Nazi characters in the crossover spew the same, we are just following orders, this is the life we were born into yada yada that it's at least responded to as a weak coward excuse and not something that elicits sympathy.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

I bet big dollars the whole they had no choice but to be Nazis thing is part the story/in the script since Stephen talked about it like it was part of the story and not his interpretation.

Yeah, I think so too. ::disgruntled noises::

[Miss Dee]

Honestly, I don't think this crossover is going to show a nuanced portrayal of complex human beings from Earth-X and how they end up buying into such a horrific ideology as Nazism. We're gonna get the "cartoon Nazi" that you see in Indiana Jones that it's perfectly justifiable to root against.

As for Dark Arrow and Overgirl, I've no doubt they'll be genuinely into each other assuming they're going there, but I'll eat my hat if the show suggests they're in any way people to emulate.

[leopardprint]

I kind of interpreted the snippet shown in the promos between Kara-X and Kara as a sign that they may be totally sidestepping the ideological motivations in regards to the Arrowverse-X characters specifically. If those spoilers are correct, Oliver-X and Kara-X personal motivations will be explored and if that is the case then why have them be Nazis at all? Just make them generic fascists or space vampires or zombie vikings in love. In addition to being Nazis, they are willing to kill a bunch of innocent people to save Kara-X so I don't think they are going to be portrayed as good guys but again why did they need to be Nazis to tell this story? It's lazy at best, it's just a costume they can wear that means "evil". 

Edited November 26, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

I'm fascinated that one day until it airs and all the EPs have gone into hiding. 

Either they are hiding from the harrassment scandal or aste regretting the nazi decision now. 

[ComicFan777]

I never read the original comics, but I think it's very possible that this is dialogue in the show because when I looked into people's reactions about the original comics about Overman (basically evil Superman instead of evil Oliver), I stumbled on someone mentioning that Overman said in comics:
"I'm not ashamed of anything. That happened decades ago, before I was born. My family had good reasons for everything it did"
which sounds a lot like what dark Oliver's POV might be to justify the world they live in.

Edited November 26, 2017 by ComicFan777

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

As for Dark Arrow and Overgirl, I've no doubt they'll be genuinely into each other assuming they're going there, but I'll eat my hat if the show suggests they're in any way people to emulate.

I don't think they're going to be shown as people to emulate, but an Oliver willing to throw a mission to save Overgirl, or not wanting to leave her side while she's ill could be humanizing in a "he can't be that bad because look at how much he loves her" kind of way. Which is what I'm hoping we don't get. 

[quarks]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm fascinated that one day until it airs and all the EPs have gone into hiding. 

Either they are hiding from the harrassment scandal or aste regretting the nazi decision now. 

Or they're just enjoying the U.S. Thanksgiving holiday.  They all work in California, not Canada.

[insomniadreams88]

You know, part of me is glad the EPs are silent, particularly Arrow’s. We’d get word salad from WM and who knows what we’d get from MG. I have to admit I’m not totally looking forward to any post-crossover comments either. Maybe it’s a good thing MG no longer answers Qs on tumblr. Some of his answers last year...