S05.E04: The Plan

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Guided by Bishop Heahmund's visions, the Saxons devise a battle plan. Meanwhile, Ivar the Boneless strategizes on his own as the Vikings face increasing pressure; and Bjorn Ironside finds himself in a new territory.

[Son of the Norse]

Cannot wait for a longer story line with Bjorn!  Bears, Beserkers, oh my!.....Oh my, he killed them! :)

[LittleIggy]

The guy in Sicily was a hottie. Nice of the Blue Man Group to show up for Harald’s wedding. And, yes, his hair looked fine since it had apparently been washed.

Speaking of hair, Lagertha’s braided “crown” was gorgeous. 

[magdalene]

Why are the rats above ground?  Not to be the Saxons future adorable pets I am sure.

I am not caring at all about the Fredo of Vikings, aka Hvitserk.

I am very interested in Bjorn's and King Harald's story line.

Heahmund is not growing on me at all, well, my dislike of him is growing though.

[green]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

Why are the rats above ground?  Not to be the Saxons future adorable pets I am sure.

 

Yeah.  Ivar is actively using germ warfare with his pet plague rats.

Hvitserk the Wishy-Washy.  Yes, Hvitserk, you did choose the wrong brother.  Ubbe may have treated you like his pet dog but Ivar will treat you like his pet rat.  And Ubbe isn't likely to kill you if he is feeling moody.  But Ivar?  Well just ask Sigurd.

So Halfdan has a thing for the Christian nun?  Music soothed the savage soul?

And whats-her-name (M-something) is not giving her love to Lagertha and really wants Hvitserk obviously but will be cool with Ubbe if he kicks Lagertha out and she can become queen.  Meanwhile Astrid is actually becoming a queen and thinks that is pretty cool.   Poor Lagertha.  Only Torvi seems totally loyal now and the Seer said she would only see her Bjorn again in really bad conditions as in on her death bed or something I assume.

Aethelwulf has Crazypants Bishop's number.  Hethmund is the name?  There are two syllables and first starts with H and last with M so I am going to go with Hotmud if my first guess was wrong.

Meanwhile everyone sign up for Floki's Guided Tour of Asgaard.  Your ticket refunded if you choose to settle there and keep him company.  (I am a little amused that Floki the Ship Builder doesn't exactly have much wood to do same with in Iceland).

Edited December 14, 2017 by green

[nodorothyparker]

I guess we can assume Ivar learned about the Romans and their rudimentary use of germ warfare from Ragnar in one of the many off screen talks they probably had trekking across the English countryside.  While it may seem like an odd thing for a father to impart to his son in their limited time together, we know now that Ragnar had every intention of pointing his boys at the Saxons after his little sojourn was over and knowing what a mind Ivar has for this kind of stuff probably wanted to give them every possible strategic weapon he could think of first, even if his intentions weren't clear at the time.  Ragnar of course would have learned about it from Athelstan who shared a fascination for all things Roman with Ecbert.  I love being able to connect the dots on things like this.

Ivar is certainly clever enough and while I get that he's trying to establish himself as the undisputed top dog and not just one of the collective sons of Ragnar, maybe it might be wiser not to alienate the one brother who's still more or less on your side and already chose you.  Especially when you do in fact have certain limitations.  But the Vikings seem to appreciate a good trolling as much as anyone, so maybe he figures it all evens out in the end and Hvitserk will get over it. 

Margarethe is painfully obvious at the court intrigue stuff, although with Ubbe coming home with his tail between his legs like he did it probably felt like whatever the Viking equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel is to prop him as the logical next rightful ruler of Kattegat.  I was initially a little surprised Lagertha would even bother with him as hangdog as he was being, but I guess with all the remaining sons of Ragnar off doing whatever she'll take the one that's just lurking around the grounds anyway to give her rule that little extra oomph of legitimacy over an outsider like Harald.  I did like Lagertha making it crystal clear that she was perfectly aware of Margarethe's clumsy attempts to backstab her and was giving her just enough rope to hang herself if she chooses to continue down that path.

Bjorn's subtle disappointment to learn that he was not in fact the first Viking to show up in the Mediterranean was nicely played, as was his discomfort at the Sicilian ruler leaning in for a kiss.  Bjorn's curiosity and openness to try to understand the larger world doesn't have the same lovely shading Ragnar's so frequently did, but it's there nonetheless as he was clearly chomping at the bit to go meet the much bigger deal Arab African ruler from the moment he heard of him.  It sounds like they're heading next to the north coast of Africa maybe?  That should be a fascinating meetup.

I can't imagine anyone jumping at the chance to go sailing off with Floki to an uninhabited place where you'd be with just Floki, even if he does sell it as a place to be closer to the gods.  The scenery is lovely but my feelings about Floki remained unchanged and I'm only hoping to see him fall into the volcano they keep showing us in the background. 

[Ohwell]

The thing I love about this season is that there are basically five separate stories -- Bjorn's/Halfdan's travels, Floki's travels, Lagertha at Kattegut, Ivar vs. Heahmund, Harald and Astrid -- and they all flow together without a hitch.  (The writers on The Walking Dead need to take notice.)  I'm really enjoying this season.     

I loved the look on M-something's (tm Green) face when she saw that Lagertha caught her backstabbing.  She looked like she was about to piss her panties (did they even wear panties back then?).

[The Kings Foot]

Germ warfare? Guys it's much simpler than that. Ivar had hidden part of his army in the Roman sewer system. The rats are disturbed so they've come above ground. 

When night falls and thr Saxons are asleep the army will rise up and slaughter them. Also the rest of the army with the long ships will return. 

That's my take on things. 

[AmyA]

23 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

 

Germ warfare? Guys it's much simpler than that. Ivar had hidden part of his army in the Roman sewer system. The rats are disturbed so they've come above ground. 

When night falls and thr Saxons are asleep the army will rise up and slaughter them. Also the rest of the army with the long ships will return. 

That's my take on things. 

 

That was my thought, too. Why wouldn't any of the Saxons realize that? Bugs me more than a little that the Saxons are falling for yet another Viking trick. They take an entire army, king included, to check it out when the Vikings are known for their ambushes and bizarre strategies. 

It's funny...if this were Ragnar pulling this shit on the Saxons, I would be all about it. Ivar? Not so much. 

[nodorothyparker]

2 hours ago, The Kings Foot said:

Germ warfare? Guys it's much simpler than that. Ivar had hidden part of his army in the Roman sewer system. The rats are disturbed so they've come above ground. 

When night falls and thr Saxons are asleep the army will rise up and slaughter them. Also the rest of the army with the long ships will return. 

That's my take on things. 

Thinking about it, this seems fairly probable, yes.  Ninth century people certainly would have understood you needed to burn or bury dead bodies, but germ theory won't be a thing for quite some time yet.

Either way, I can't feel too bad for the Saxons taking their king and lead bishop inside the city proper without checking it out first all because the bishop had a vision that caused them to disregard considering other strategies.

[nitrofishblue]

Maybe the vikings were hiding beneath the floor and chased the rats out

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

Me, too. I can’t pull for the Vikings now with psycho boy in charge. I can’t pull for the Saxons either with the religious fanatic running the show. I like the actor who plays Aethelwulf, but I can’t forget how Aethelwulf slaughtered those peaceful Viking farmers.

Agreed.  I can't pull for any of these people now.  I just want to see them fight each other because the battle scenes are exciting to watch.

I'm still rooting for Bjorn.  I just hope that Halfdan's not stupid because he seems to be besotted with the nun.  I did laugh at the look on his face when the Sicilian wannabe ruler kissed Bjorn.  I know a lot of people don't like Floki but I do, and I'm also interested in his adventures.

I'm going to start calling Hvitserk "Woof."

[EighteenTwelve]

Did I miss something?  If Floki doesn't know where Iceland (or wherever he thinks he is) is, how is he going to get back to other Vikings, especially without navigational instruments?  Unless he's going to point himself sort of southwest and hope for another storm...

[LittleIggy]

11 minutes ago, EighteenTwelve said:

Did I miss something?  If Floki doesn't know where Iceland (or wherever he thinks he is) is, how is he going to get back to other Vikings, especially without navigational instruments?  Unless he's going to point himself sort of southwest and hope for another storm...

I thought the same exact thing. He landed there through sheer dumb luck.  Now he doesn’t even have a raven!

[green]

4 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Agreed.  I can't pull for any of these people now.  I just want to see them fight each other because the battle scenes are exciting to watch.

I'm still rooting for Bjorn.  I just hope that Halfdan's not stupid because he seems to be besotted with the nun.  I did laugh at the look on his face when the Sicilian wannabe ruler kissed Bjorn.  I know a lot of people don't like Floki but I do, and I'm also interested in his adventures.

I'm going to start calling Hvitserk "Woof."

I would be with you on that except I spent the better part of the year learning how to spell and pronounce Hvitserk.  Too much effort went into that to throw it away now.  Though the show still should have kept Sigurd over him instead.

But I might give up on learning the Bishop's name and just stick with Hotmud because I really don't like the actor's performance of lack thereof so far.

I no longer have problems with Aethelwulf.  He did what he did at the village under orders from Ecbert so the main "sin" falls of Ecbert there though Aethelwulf had no qualms about it at the time.  But that is small potatoes compared to the number of innocents the Vikings, including Ragnar, have killed in England.  Not that two wrongs ever make a right.

But I'd rather give him credit from moving from the stupid-headed, close-minded religious bigot we first met to a more tolerant and wiser person as he aged.  Most people with age tend to get more conservative.  He has grown more liberal.  He has shown constant bravery up front in battle leading from the front too.  Also his acceptance of and love for Alfred despite not having fathered him.  And his forgiveness of Judith as well.  Also the actor knows how to really act as opposed to the one playing Bishop Hotmud.

And yeah to people mentioning Bjorn's disappointment about not being THE First Med Viking.  Actually these "Rus" Vikings (Vikings that had invaded the Russian (Rus) lands years back and made Kiev their capital) made it to ancient Constantinople quite early on and they served as the Emperor's bodyguard way before Bjorn arrived in the Med.  And yes Halfdan's "thing" for the Christian nun is going to get Bjorn and company into trouble.  You just know it is.  (He probably shares his brother's bad luck with women, a family thing).  She is, as the translator keeps saying of everyone there, not as she seems and seems to be a mover and shaker in her own right and not just a mere kidnapped slave.

[nodorothyparker]

I don't feel compelled to root for or against either side.  The real life history is what it is and I'm mostly content to watch it play out.  That doesn't mean I'm above being pleased when either side does something interesting or clever.

I've always had a soft spot for Aethelwulf because while he was originally presented as much more black and white thinker with little imagination compared to Ecbert, he's occupied a largely thankless role often getting the short end of the stick in Ecbert's and Judith's affections.  He's long been expected to play the dutiful next in line cleaning up their messes and received very little credit for the things that he did do right or rightly predict.  I was glad to see him finally pull rank on Heahmund now that he's king in his own right and no longer in Ecbert's shadow because it seems fairly obvious that Heahmund is going to run roughshod over him and not take him seriously either if he can get away with it.  JRM may have a fairly lengthy acting resume, but he still feels out of place on this show.

[magdalene]

I agree Aethelwulf is not a flashy character but Moe Dunford has really done lots with what is in many ways a thankless role and I prefer Aethelwulf 100% over psycho Ivar and Heahmund.  They may be supposed to be brilliant thinkers but it counts much more with me how Aethelwulf has treated Alfred all his life.  

I don't root against the Vikings in general either. They have played a very important and in some ways positive part in European history.

[jackjill89]

What I want to know is how will Floki get back to Kattegat and then find Iceland again since he let the gods navigate and threw away the compass Ivar gave him? 

Also -- he kept praying to Alfather -- had we heard any Vikings doing that before. It sounds like the top dog god. Didn't know there was one. Not that I know anything about Norse gods. 

[Son of the Norse]

Alfather is Odin.

[spinxella]

The only parts I enjoyed in this episode were Bjorn and The Wanderer on their Mediterranean adventure. I'm also liking Aethelwulf. I think fatherhood has made him a better man and his doting on Alfred is endearing. Moe Dunford has a warmth and humility in his performance which I appreciate.

I'm already feeling Ivar Fatigue. I quit watching The Walking Dead because of psycho Negan and now psycho Ivar is making me feel the same way about Vikings.

I really miss Ragnar. :(

[Keldur]

13 hours ago, EighteenTwelve said:

Did I miss something?  If Floki doesn't know where Iceland (or wherever he thinks he is) is, how is he going to get back to other Vikings, especially without navigational instruments?  Unless he's going to point himself sort of southwest and hope for another storm...

He sailed there by letting the wind and sea guide him but the Vikings navigated by the stars and he knows where he's going.  He just needs clear skies.

[nowornever]

C'mon Saxons, WHY would you go back in and not suspect another trap?  No one saw the Viking ships leave, and it's too soon for them to all have died of starvation.  I don't trust Heahmund any farther than I can throw a spear.  Given their history, I am surprised at the relationship between Aethelwulf and Judith, although maybe it's just out of necessity.   

I want to see Ivar get his ass kicked, but I don't think the Saxons will be the ones to do it. And now, he's just walking with a crutch.  It's a medical miracle!

Margrethe better watch out.  We've seen how Lagertha deals with usurpers.  

I'm feeling bad for Torvi.  

Edited December 15, 2017 by nowornever

[MaggieG]

10 minutes ago, nowornever said:

I want to see Ivar get his ass kicked, but I don't think the Saxons will be the ones to do it. And now, he's just walking with a crutch.  It's a medical miracle!

Margrethe better watch out.  We've seen how Lagertha deals with usurpers.  

I'm feeling bad for Torvi.  

Yes, what the heck, how is he walking with just one crutch? I thought that was very odd.

I love how confident Margrethe was when talking shit about Lagertha to both Ubbe and Torvi and how quickly that confidence evaporated when she was confronted by Lagartha. She was ready to shit her pants! Girl needs to be careful.

[tennisgurl]

I have to say, Aethelwulf  is really winning me over this season. He has really mellowed out and become a wiser, kinder person since we first met him, and I am fully rooting for him now. Especially next to the crazy bishop guy, who is clearly a sketchy asshole, and you can tell Aethelwulf has his number. His expression when Judith's cousin showed up was basically "thank God a non crazy person with a sword is here!", and I appreciated him telling the bishop guy to shove it. If it had been just him and Ubbe last week, they would probably be signing peace treaties by now. 

Speaking of Ubbe, I can see why Lagatha would want to ally with him, even if he is down for now. Ubbe might be naive, but he isn't stupid, isn't crazy, has leadership skills, and is still a son of Ragnar. If things turn bad for Ivars troops (and considering Ivar is kind of totally nuts, its pretty inevitable) I can see everyone coming back to Ubbe as a more sane alternative. And Ubbe needs all the allys he can get so he can rebuild. 

I always really love seeing the various old world cultures interact with each other, its just so fascinating. Bjorn might not be as totally open to new things as Ragnar was, but he clearly shares his curiosity and willingness to work with different people from different cultures, and I think that will serve him well. Plus, I just love seeing all the sets and costumes and languages and cultural stuff. His expressions throughout the episode were hilarious, jumping from "what the fuck dude?" to "well this is kind of interesting" to "seriously...what the fuck dude"? I am really enjoying Bjorn and the wanderers journey around the world. Also, Bjorn is looking very Ragnar lately, in both his looks and expressions. Granted, he doesn't have the full on Ragnar crazy eyes yet, but we`re getting there. I also like hearing what the rest of the world is getting up to, and how they're all interacting (or not) with each other. 

Hvitserk really backed the wrong horse here. Ubbe might not be the Golden Viking right now, but at least he wont murder people, even his own family, because he`s in a bad mood. This wishy washyness might be why no one takes you seriously Hvitserk. 

[Son of the Norse]

I feel sometimes like I am the only Ivar fan here sometimes lol.  I know he is "cray-seee", but he is Viking.

A lot of the actors that play the English are doing a great job, that doesn't change the fact that in the show and history, they are still christians.

I don't care how crazy the Heathens are; at least they are not apart of a group (in my opinion), that shoved their god down peoples throat.  Not to get to deep into religion, but historically, is there any religion in the world that try's to push themselves down people's throat as much as those guys? Don't know about you, but I never had a Muslim or a Wiccan come to my door and try to pray for me or get me to read their stupid crap.

Back to the show.  I loved Bjorn and his group, very exciting to see history play out and show how the Vikings were not only fighters, but also discoverers, and the first Atlantic travelers in recorded history.  It is true that the Polynesians traveled further that the Vikings in their ocean (the Pacific), but no ocean is as brutal or unforgiving as the Atlantic.

Now time to drink my own version of an "old fashion", and listen to a little Immigrant Song, followed by a few hours of awesome Wardruna tunes, while I blot to Odin and the crew! 

[tennisgurl]

4 hours ago, Son of the Norse said:

Now time to drink my own version of an "old fashion", and listen to a little Immigrant Song, followed by a few hours of awesome Wardruna tunes, while I blot to Odin and the crew! 

Floki, is this you!?!?! Praise Odin for giving you such a great internet connection in Valhalla :) 

Edited December 16, 2017 by tennisgurl

[green]

On 12/15/2017 at 1:27 PM, nowornever said:

I want to see Ivar get his ass kicked, but I don't think the Saxons will be the ones to do it. And now, he's just walking with a crutch.  It's a medical miracle!

 

 

On 12/15/2017 at 1:42 PM, MaggieG said:

Yes, what the heck, how is he walking with just one crutch? I thought that was very odd.

 

It isn't odd or a miracle.  It is the iron leg bracers the blacksmith made for him there in York.  We saw what they are like.  They wrap the whole leg in strong, stiff metal allowing Ivar to stand.  He doesn't have a natural, inner skeleton so these serve as a kind of exoskeleton for him.  His over developed by necessity arms and shoulders do the rest.

20 hours ago, Son of the Norse said:

I feel sometimes like I am the only Ivar fan here sometimes lol.  I know he is "cray-seee", but he is Viking.

A lot of the actors that play the English are doing a great job, that doesn't change the fact that in the show and history, they are still christians.

I don't care how crazy the Heathens are; at least they are not apart of a group (in my opinion), that shoved their god down peoples throat.  Not to get to deep into religion, but historically, is there any religion in the world that try's to push themselves down people's throat as much as those guys? Don't know about you, but I never had a Muslim or a Wiccan come to my door and try to pray for me or get me to read their stupid crap.

 

The Muslims have, from time to time, been very much missionary types and forced conversions at sword point occur at times in their history.  Even to this day with a fanatical group like ISIS.  Does that make Muslims in general evil?  Of course not.  No more than Christians in general.  I get you have a hatred for Christians but hatred gets you nowhere.

OTOH the Vikings have an endless record in these early days of doing nothing with their interactions with western Europe but raiding to rape and plunder and murder men, women, children and babies.  And these people had never ever done them harm first or threatened them ever. 

So I'll take the Saxons any day.  Yes there was the atrocity in the village ordered by Ecbert in this particular drama and it was totally wrong.  But how many towns and villages of Saxons were destroyed before that?  In the main the Saxons have simply been defending their lands from bloodthirsty invaders.  They never planned any raiding parties back into Scandinavia or anything like that.  They just want to do what most people the world over want to do.  To live peacefully with a roof over their heads, food in their bellies and their loved ones by their side.

Ragnar saw that and saw that would make a good future for his people.  Rich farmland and a peaceful, settled way of life is the future he wanted for his people.  He got it that the Vikings had to change and adapt to survive.  There were too many to keep raiding to live.  Their population demanded, like all tribal populations demand at some point in their history, that they settle down and learn the ways of peace. 

And Ragner certainly didn't give a damn if you followed Odin (Floki) or Jesus (Athelstan).  He judged men by their actions; not by some weird group hatred of some religion or other.  And he took what he felt was the best for him from both religions because he was above petty bigotry.

Edited December 16, 2017 by green

[tennisgurl]

4 hours ago, Son of the Norse said:

don't care how crazy the Heathens are; at least they are not apart of a group (in my opinion), that shoved their god down peoples throat.  Not to get to deep into religion, but historically, is there any religion in the world that try's to push themselves down people's throat as much as those guys? Don't know about you, but I never had a Muslim or a Wiccan come to my door and try to pray for me or get me to read their stupid crap.

So basically, its cool to kill people if they belong to a religion that annoys you with pamphlets? Ok...

[thuganomics85]

Bjorn's adventures in Sicily are an interesting change of pace and I'm kind of warming up to him and Halfdan as a duo.  Actually, I think one of the best things so far this season is separating Harald and Halfdan, because it's allowing both of these characters to grow and not just be the brothers that are kind of dicks (sure, everyone on this show is kind of a dick, but those two together always had their own special brand of dickishness.)

Totally knew Ivar had another scheme going and the Saxons really are idiots if they fall for it again.  I'm guessing it will also cause tensions between Aethelwulf and Heahmund to rise anymore.  I did enjoy Aethelwulf going all "Listen, buddy!  I don't care that you use to star in The Tudors: I'm the king, now!" at one point.

Poor Lagertha.  No matter where she goes, everyone but Torvi is trying to play her.  Margrethe is so out of her element though.  She literally ran away crying when Lagertha called her out!  Not sure what to make of Lagertha throwing in with Ubbe.  I guess he's the best out of the non-Bjorn Ragnar sons, but that's kind of becoming a low bar to get over.

Got to admit that I'm kind of just zoning out on Floki's stuff and just enjoying the really good scenery.

Liked seeing The Seer again.

Astrid marries Harald, although it seems like a part of her still has feelings for Lagertha.

Dammit, History Channel, I will likely get to Knightfall at some point, but you consistently putting next week's previews during that show, is really not doing you any favors with me. 

[Son of the Norse]

@ Green: Hatred for someone?  Not I.  Dislike in the historical sense? Yes. @ TG: Cool to kill? Never. Necessary sometimes, yes.

Moving on...

I too have not stayed on to watch Knightfall just for previews. I dislike that ploy by HC; AMC does it all the time I don't like that either.

[Ohwell]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Bjorn's adventures in Sicily are an interesting change of pace and I'm kind of warming up to him and Halfdan as a duo.  Actually, I think one of the best things so far this season is separating Harald and Halfdan, because it's allowing both of these characters to grow and not just be the brothers that are kind of dicks (sure, everyone on this show is kind of a dick, but those two together always had their own special brand of dickishness.)

Agreed.  I'm looking forward to Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventures, Viking style.  I fear for Halfdan though because of his attraction to that nun.  I also like their "travel guide" (can't remember his name).

[Knuckles]

I do miss Ragnar. But Bjorn has always been his true son, and his adventures in Sicily and beyond promise to be interesting...and even Halfdan is not as witless as i had assumed. Astrid changes gender preferences for a shot at being a queen...Lagertha and her love for her utterly forgotten. And marrying Finehair, who blithely announced that he killed the last woman who turned him down might have helped her say yes. Still, Finehair is one ugly, smelly looking mutt...good luck with that, Astrid.

And Ivar, may you fall into one of those roman sewers...the mad dog Ivar is beginning to bore. Yeah, he's a psychotic killer, with no real plan for the future, except endless killing, and it is hard to take much more of him. Yes, the actor sells it, but the character is thin...not much nuance there.

Athelwufl is no military genius...he jumps at the first chance to take on the Vikings..whether it is Hotmud's visions, or crumbling walls, or now smoke suggesting the Vikings are burning the dead. If only he had read War and Peace, he would have learned what Kutusov knew when confronted with Napoleon and vastly superior invading forces...time and patience, and strategic retreat. Cutting off their food supplies was a great move...but moving too quickly would undo that. Medieval sieges often lasted a year or two...Athelwufl needs to sit his butt down.

[LittleIggy]

7 hours ago, Son of the Norse said:

 

I too have not stayed on to watch Knightfall just for previews. I dislike that ploy by HC; AMC does it all the time I don't like that either.

Indeed! It aggravates me that they hold the preview hostage. I don’t watch Knightfall either.

As for Astrid, I don’t think she had much of a choice but to marry stinky Harald if she wanted to live.

Edited December 16, 2017 by LittleIggy

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

As for Astrid, I don’t think she had much of a choice but to marry stinky Harald if she wanted to live.

Yeah now that you mentioned it, Harald surely would have just killed her had she said no.  He couldn't take another rejection.  I did feel bad for her when she was dreaming about Lagertha, as if she was saying farewell to their relationship before marrying Harald.   In his defense though, he did look like he actually bathed for the wedding. ; )

ETA, I actually think that in Harald's Viking brain, he was courting Astrid and trying to be a gentleman and not a brute because, let's face it, he could have taken her anytime he wanted.  I think he wanted her to want him, especially after the last woman rejected him.  So, in that sense, I do think that he's "evolved" somewhat. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Ohwell

[green]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Dammit, History Channel, I will likely get to Knightfall at some point, but you consistently putting next week's previews during that show, is really not doing you any favors with me. 

 

3 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Indeed! It aggravates me that they hold the preview hostage. I don’t watch Knightfall either.

As for Astrid, I don’t think she had much of a choice but to marry stinky Harald if she wanted to live.

OT:  Just a head's up.  Don't waste your time on Knightfall is my advice.  It is corny stupid with terrible writing (I mean really REALLY bad writing), paint-by-numbers acting with no "it" factor in the lead, bad special effects and a "hero" who is a total hypocrite and more scum then anything else.   Why they paired it with Vikings I'll never know.  (History Channel exec:  "Oh wait, it's an historical drama you say.  They must all be the same.  Buy it and put it on after Vikings.").  Having it on right after Vikings makes a terrible show look even worse if humanly possibly. 

God knows I had a field day with the first episode ripping it apart here on this forum but by the second episode it was getting even boring doing that.  And that's the only reason I even watched the second episode.  To make fun of it.  The over-the-top villain who is the only character with two brain cells to rub together had a funny scene or two but that was about it. 

I'm an easy sell for historical dramas but this is the exception that proves the rule.  Stick with clipping your toe nails or cleaning your toilet over ever watching this mess.  After Vikings showed how it should be done regards historical dramas how this Knightfall mess was made is beyond me.

About Lagertha.  My theory.  I think she is getting treated as more fallible and less likeable this season (see Harold's rape and escape) like Ragnar was shown leading up to his death (Ragnar the druggie) and exit from the show.  Hirst said he has gotten tons of email and snail mail both over the years about how he should never kill her off. 

But despite the actor not looking like she has aged a day, Lagertha has.  She is now in her sunset years.  Hirst has to make her both more vulnerable and kind of less likeable before she dies I think so that at least some of the viewers who are big Lagertha fans will be okay when that happens because they have already stopped likely her as much as they used to.

Of course that means many will want a new, Lagertha-like younger heroic viking woman on the show.  Astrid's move to prime time (queen of Norway) may be an attempt but most of us already dislike her too much to change our minds at this point.  M-something is younger and could be on the rise but so far does nothing for me.  Torvi is the most likeable of the Viking women left after Lagertha so we will have to see if she is pumped up some this season.

As far as major female characters in general on this show I am guessing that the Christian nun may be the next one.

Edited December 16, 2017 by green

[jackjill89]

I don't feel like the show has done much to develop a lot of the new generation. I'm actually glad Ivar killed his brother, because it was one less to try and remember. Save Ubbe and Ivar, Ragnar's sons with the woman whose name I can't remember were completely interchangeable and lack any depth of character. I hate Astrid, and Harald and Halfdan aren't that interesting -- although I agree they are better apart. Ever since Lagertha became queen I find her boring. I think part of it is the Astrid effect. 

I miss Ragnar. I miss Rollo. I miss the old Lagertha. 

[LittleIggy]

53 minutes ago, jackjill89 said:

 

I miss Ragnar. I miss Rollo. I miss the old Lagertha. 

Yeah. I miss Ecbert, too.

I’ll never not love Lagertha, but Ragnar was the great love of her life. They need to be reunited in Valhalla.

[Sienna]

I really wish they'd developed the "second generation" characters a bit more before they killed off Ragnar/changed the show's focus. I find Ivar interesting, even if I don't "like" him, but Ubbe has been pretty milquetoast so far, and Hvitserk has no distinguishing attributes whatsoever. I was somewhat interested in Sigurd, because of what's known about him historically (he married a daughter of King Aella, and that might have been an interesting storyline), but overall, I agree with the earlier comment; at least his death means one less brother to keep straight.

I also wish they hadn't killed off EVERY female character from the younger generation(s). Thyri (Siggy and Haraldson's daughter), Gyda (Ragnar and Lagertha's), Angrboda (Floki & Helga's), Litte Siggy (Bjorn & Porunn's). I love me some Lagaertha, but it would be awesome to have a new female perspective on Viking society from a character we had some connection to from previous seasons (besides Torvi).

Overall, I'm pleasantly surprised at how much better this season is over the past couple of years. And I never thought I would find Floki, alone in Iceland, so fascinating to watch. Astrid needs to die, though. The actress just grates on me, no matter who she's sleeping with.

[jackjill89]

11 hours ago, Sienna said:

I really wish they'd developed the "second generation" characters a bit more before they killed off Ragnar/changed the show's focus. I find Ivar interesting, even if I don't "like" him, but Ubbe has been pretty milquetoast so far, and Hvitserk has no distinguishing attributes whatsoever. I was somewhat interested in Sigurd, because of what's known about him historically (he married a daughter of King Aella, and that might have been an interesting storyline), but overall, I agree with the earlier comment; at least his death means one less brother to keep straight.

I also wish they hadn't killed off EVERY female character from the younger generation(s). Thyri (Siggy and Haraldson's daughter), Gyda (Ragnar and Lagertha's), Angrboda (Floki & Helga's), Litte Siggy (Bjorn & Porunn's). I love me some Lagaertha, but it would be awesome to have a new female perspective on Viking society from a character we had some connection to from previous seasons (besides Torvi).

Overall, I'm pleasantly surprised at how much better this season is over the past couple of years. And I never thought I would find Floki, alone in Iceland, so fascinating to watch. Astrid needs to die, though. The actress just grates on me, no matter who she's sleeping with.

That is exactly what they should have done -- developed them when Ragnar was alive. Except for Ivar, there really was never anything done to distinguish the other three. Now we know Ubbe is the more temperate one. There aren't enough good threads that have woven through both generations. I agree about the women too. 

I miss Ecbert too. He and Ragnar together -- amazing. Linus Roache was so good. There is so much I miss about the "old" Vikings. Just not enough to love right now. There's no one to root for. It's a show about Vikings. I don't want to root for the Saxons. However, I do find Ivar very compelling. I know he's an evil psycho, but I still find him the most interesting at the moment. The actor has totally committed to the character. 

[Captanne]

With regards to confusing the Sons of ..... at least Ivar bumped one off for us to make it easier.  I can now keep them straight in my head.  Ivar, obviously, Hvitserk the Undecided ("Do I go with Pure Evil or don't I go with Pure Evil?"), and Ubbe the Momma's Boy ("I will return to Kattegat" and "I will be allying with the killer of my Mother" -- Aslaug lives on in this one).

[Lady Iris]

Have to say they did a really good job of finding an actor for Ubbe who really could be a son of Ragnar. very similar features. When he and Lagertha were making their agreement I thought for just a second she was going to turn and look meaningfully into his eyes.

I thought the rats above ground signified that the Vikings were hiding beneath ground as well. That Ivar, he be one strategery minded fellow even if he is psychotic.

[Captanne]

Ubbe's actor is also attempting to do the fidget that Ragnar did.  This actor overdoes it a little bit (thinking specifically of the ensemble scene in the episode prior to this one when he leaves England for Kattegat and he's confronting Ivar in the grand hall.)  

[Haleth]

Wow. I'd delayed watching this episode because I'm tired of psycho Ivar constantly winning, but I really enjoyed all the storylines beside the Saxon one. Loved, loved Bjorn exploring Moorish Sicily and the Muslim world. (I recently read The Silk Road and was fascinated by the influence of the Vikings in Central Asia.). Floki in Iceland was moving and beautiful. And I even enjoyed Harald and Astrid for a change. I think Lagertha is in trouble. 

Yeah, Heahmund isn't as smart as he thinks he is.  Too late he realized the rats were above ground. 

[Babalooie]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 8:11 PM, Son of the Norse said:

I feel sometimes like I am the only Ivar fan here sometimes lol. 

You're not alone.   I shared this quite some time back.  According to ancestry.com, Ivar is a great-grandfather of mine.  That would explain a lot regarding Mum.  The jury is out as to whether he could actually father children, but  I like to think that it was possible.   On my father's side Sigurd is Gramps.  Not sure how much stock to put into all of this, but it's fun to root for Grandpa.

[green]

1 hour ago, Babalooie said:

You're not alone.   I shared this quite some time back.  According to ancestry.com, Ivar is a great-grandfather of mine.  That would explain a lot regarding Mum.  The jury is out as to whether he could actually father children, but  I like to think that it was possible.   On my father's side Sigurd is Gramps.  Not sure how much stock to put into all of this, but it's fun to root for Grandpa.

Weren't you also related to Ecbert somehow?  Or was that another poster here?

[Babalooie]

8 hours ago, green said:

Weren't you also related to Ecbert somehow? 

Yes.  We're all quite a mix.  No matter how much royalty we're descended from, when they came to America they had to start over.  The most recent ancestor who came up in my line is :  

Alfred "The Great" King of England

849–899

Birth 9 MAY 849 • Wantage, Berkshire, England

Death 26 OCT 899 • Winchester, Hampshire, England

34th great-grandfather

Edited December 19, 2017 by Babalooie

[benteen]

Aethelwulf has been one of the most underrated characters on this show for a long time and Moe Dunford has really done a lot with his character.  His evolution has been fascinating to watch.

Good episode.  This show makes it's new locales and the idea of discovering them so exciting.  I also think they have done an impressive job making long-term characters like Harald much more interesting.  It's impressive when a show can do that.

[slf]

Ivar did nothing for me last season and he doesn't now. The actor has a very limited range which is lucky since Ivar is pretty simply written. I hate what they did with Lagertha. I'm getting so bored with this show. I doubt I'll watch the rest of the season.

This show really hit pay dirt with Lagertha, Ragnar, Rollo, Siggy, Floki, Helga; they were the best Vikings and the show has suffered with each loss. While Torvi and older Bjorn are acceptable additions, they stand alone as the only current characters who fit in with the old guard.

[Tyro49]

While watching these later Vikings episodes I sometimes get confused with The Last Kingdom, with different actors playing the same characters. Though I think in these last two episodes the timelines have finally crossed: I believe it was in these battles at York that Uhtred's (our hero) father is killed and the child Uhtred is captured and then raised as a Dane. When he is an adult he has dealings with King Alfred. In the books there is mention of "the Lothbrok brothers", and I believe he faces one of them in battle.

[Auntie Anxiety]

On 12/30/2017 at 0:28 PM, Tyro49 said:

While watching these later Vikings episodes I sometimes get confused with The Last Kingdom, with different actors playing the same characters. Though I think in these last two episodes the timelines have finally crossed: I believe it was in these battles at York that Uhtred's (our hero) father is killed and the child Uhtred is captured and then raised as a Dane. When he is an adult he has dealings with King Alfred. In the books there is mention of "the Lothbrok brothers", and I believe he faces one of them in battle.

Yes, I kept getting confused between the two shows and tried to figure out timelines. Finally I understand how/where King Alfred fits in. I was hoping the Vikings would take that baby crying in the church in York after the massacre and raise him as a Viking a la Uhtred.

I wasn’t sure I was going to stick around for this season, because I found last season a little slow and boring. My DVR decided to record the new shows and I had them stacked up. Finally got around to viewing them after five seasons of Ray Donovan, the newest season of Peaky Blinders, and Season 1 of The Magnificent Mrs. Maisel. I have eclectic tastes. I binge watched the first four Vikings episodes last night and was pleasantly surprised.